Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: Cain on January 17, 2008, 10:06:54 PM

Title: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Cain on January 17, 2008, 10:06:54 PM
Taken from The 33 Strategies of War (Robert Greene)

The Ojibwa tribe of the North American plains contained a warrior society known as the Windigokan (No-flight contraries).  Only the bravest men, who had demonstrated their courage by utter disregard for danger on the battlefield, could be admitted.  In fact, because they had no fear of death, they were no longer considered among the living: they slept and ate seperately and were not held to the usual codes of behaviour.  As creatures who were both alive and dead, they spoke and acted contrarily: they called a young person an old man and when one of the others told the rest to stand still, he meant charge forward.  They were glum in times of prosperity, happy in the depths of winter.  Although there was a clownish side to their behaviour, the Windigokan could inspire great terror.  No-one ever knew what they would do next.

The Windigokan were believed to be inhabited by terrifying spirits called Thunderers, which appeared in the form of giant birds [SWEET MERCIFUL FUCK, PTERODACTYLS! - Cain].  That made them somewhat inhuman.  On the battlefield they were disruptive and unpredictable, and in raiding parties downright terrifying.  In one such raid, witnessed by an outsider, they gathered first in front of the Ojibwa chief's lodge and yelled "we are not going to war!  We shall not kill the Sioux!  We shall not scalp four of them and let the rest escape!  We shall go in daytime!"  They left the camp that night, wearing customes of rags and scraps, their bodies plastered with mud and painted with splotches of wierd colour, their faces covered by frightening masks with giant, beak like noses.  They made their way through the darkness, stumbling over themselves - it was hard to see through the masks - until they came upon a large Sioux war party.  Although outnumbered, they did not flee, but danced into the enemies centre.  The grotesqueness of their dance made them seem to be possessed by demons.  Some of the Sioux backed away; others drew closer, curious and confused.  The leader of the Windigokan shouted "Don't shoot!"  The Ojibwa warriors then pulled out guns hidden under their rags, killed four of the Sioux and scalped them.  Then they danced away, the enemy too terrified by this apparition to pursue them.

After such an action, the mere appearance of the Windigokan was enough for the enemy to give them a wide berth and not risk any kind of encounter.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Chairman Risus on January 17, 2008, 11:59:58 PM
Also, ate people.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on January 18, 2008, 03:23:37 AM
This is incredibly awesome.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 18, 2008, 05:36:56 AM
Windigokans didn't eat people... even though they're usually referred to as the Cannibal Cult, it would be more accurate to say that they were the Cult of the Cannibal, or maybe even better, the Society of the Cannibal, which in sacred-clown fashion means that they completely don't eat people at all.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: barumunk on January 18, 2008, 08:28:09 AM
Definitely saints of discordia!! its the only explaniation
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Cain on January 18, 2008, 10:39:34 AM
Quote from: Nigel on January 18, 2008, 05:36:56 AM
Windigokans didn't eat people... even though they're usually referred to as the Cannibal Cult, it would be more accurate to say that they were the Cult of the Cannibal, or maybe even better, the Society of the Cannibal, which in sacred-clown fashion means that they completely don't eat people at all.

Makes sense.  If they ate people, they wouldn't call themselves that.  You know, with their weird reversal of language and all...
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 18, 2008, 04:09:04 PM
I never thought of them as Saints of Discordia, but in a way it makes sense. As far as I know, every Native culture in the Americas has/had some sort of "sacred clowns" who behaved in various discordant ways... some tribes actually them clowns, some called them contraries, and even the gender-bending two-spirits were typically viewed as some kind of manifestation of the Trickster, the Trickster being a powerful and necessary element in the universe... without the Trickster, be he (or she) viewed as Coyote, Raven, We'Gyet, or one of her other legions of names, there would be no people. Our name for the Trickster seems to be Eris. This is not a connection I've made before, but I'm liking it now that I've made it.

The contraries also performed as healers.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 18, 2008, 04:45:05 PM
I wish we all had time to take that Trickster class together ;-)
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Cain on January 18, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
I probably do now, just not the money.

Even at the current exchange rate.

Not that it matters, I have lots of reading anyway.  Enough to last me pretty much the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 18, 2008, 05:44:01 PM
Quote from: Cain on January 18, 2008, 05:39:46 PM
I probably do now, just not the money.

Even at the current exchange rate.

Not that it matters, I have lots of reading anyway.  Enough to last me pretty much the rest of the year.

I'm waiting to see how many people sign up for the class outside of this group... if its small then I may be able to wrangle some more of the discounts from the boss ;-)
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on January 18, 2008, 06:40:02 PM
Trickster class?  Link?
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 18, 2008, 06:41:22 PM
Quote from: Felix on January 18, 2008, 06:40:02 PM
Trickster class?  Link?


http://www.maybelogic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=208&Itemid=1
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on January 18, 2008, 06:45:45 PM
Hmm, it sounds like fun.  Maybe sometime in college if I have some spare cash and an open schedule.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 19, 2008, 07:46:11 AM
I would take it but my free time is already spoken for, and then some.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on January 19, 2008, 07:02:33 PM
I'll see if I can take it sooner than later if I don't get any courses this quarter.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Cramulus on January 23, 2008, 01:45:23 PM
I'm probably going to take it, pending I manage to squeeze some money out of a former boss who owes me a lot of it.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on January 23, 2008, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 23, 2008, 01:45:23 PM
I'm probably going to take it, pending I manage to squeeze some money out of a former boss who owes me a lot of it.

Well that gives us a potential three... if I had more I could probably twist the Admins arm a bit for a bigger break on cost. Maybe. ;-)
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on January 23, 2008, 08:07:18 PM
Ah, I'm afraid to say my school this semester is spoken for as of today.

The good news is that I'm taking a class on public speaking.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Bharlion on February 04, 2008, 10:30:20 AM
I flub my roll and take 20.

I love those old native american tribes, they had such cool traditions. If you want some really mindblowing stuff look up sacrificial rites of the Mayan and Aztec empires. Anasazi were cool two their name meant "ancient ancestors" or "ancient allies" depending on the source.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Jasper on March 16, 2010, 06:14:02 AM
(http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/heinous_simian/1268719161728.jpg)



Because I love this shit.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Telarus on March 16, 2010, 08:11:54 PM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: East Coast Hustle on March 19, 2010, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on January 18, 2008, 06:41:22 PM
Quote from: Felix on January 18, 2008, 06:40:02 PM
Trickster class?  Link?


http://www.maybelogic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=208&Itemid=1

I'd be interested in that, but the idea of even one penny of my fortune going to those assclowns makes me throw up in my mouth a little.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 19, 2010, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 19, 2010, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on January 18, 2008, 06:41:22 PM
Quote from: Felix on January 18, 2008, 06:40:02 PM
Trickster class?  Link?


http://www.maybelogic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=208&Itemid=1

I'd be interested in that, but the idea of even one penny of my fortune going to those assclowns makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

The culture jamming class I took was retarded, and unfortunately I ended up thinking that R.U. Sirius is an aging douche.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Alethias on March 31, 2010, 05:48:40 AM
If I were to take a class to teach me to be a trickster, I'd assume that the point would be to trick me into believing that I was getting something of value when I shelled out the money for it.  Thus, the trick would be on me;  and if I truly got the zen of it, I'd suddenly have the revelation of the value of the class.

Or i can just construct the thought-chain in my head and imagine i got tricked, and get the value without ever shelling out a penny.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Triple Zero on March 31, 2010, 06:53:41 AM
Quote from: Ale on March 31, 2010, 05:48:40 AM
If I were to take a class to teach me to be a trickster, I'd assume that the point would be to trick me into believing that I was getting something of value when I shelled out the money for it.  Thus, the trick would be on me;  and if I truly got the zen of it, I'd suddenly have the revelation of the value of the class.

Or i can just construct the thought-chain in my head and imagine i got tricked, and get the value without ever shelling out a penny.

That's just what we wanted you to find out! Congratulations, you are now a fully qualified level 2 Trickster !

That'll be $74.99 please to transfer to Suu's PayPal account.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Number_6 on April 11, 2010, 09:13:08 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on January 18, 2008, 03:23:37 AM
This is incredibly awesome.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: DeadLucky on May 24, 2010, 02:10:10 PM
I looked this up some on Google and didn't get many hits at all. I did, however, find a passage in a book online that mentioned them:

Quote
   In the old days the Plains Ojibway were mighty warriors, waging fierce battles with the Sioux, whom they hated with an implacable enmity. The old men can still tell many exciting tales of their exploits.
   One of the most interesting of Plains Ojibway institutions is that of the Cannibal Dancers, or "Windigokan," as they are called. Certain men had the right to make for themselves ridiculous costumes of rags and masks of the same material. When the band was gathered in the great camp circle, one of these persons would dress and search for comrades. Armed with a staff he would go from tent to tent until he found some one whom he wished to associate with himself. At this time he would point his stick, whereupon it was the duty of the chosen party to make himself a costume and accompany his captor, willy nilly. If, however, he saw the "Windigokan" approaching and escaped before the fateful wand was leveled at him, it was well.
   When a sufficient number of recruits had been gathered, a tent was erected to house them, and there they dwelt, issuing forth from time to time to capture food, or to exorcise the demons of disease from some sick person. Their method of procuring food was extremely amusing. The entire party, headed by the leader, would make the rounds of the camp, singing and frolicking. When they came upon buffalo meat hung out to dry, they would immediately proceed to stalk it most elaborately, until finally, one of the party, who was armed with a bow and arrow, would shoot at it. If he missed his aim, the party proceeded, never even picking up the arrow. If the meat was struck, they would flee in pantomime of terror, falling over backwards and performing many ludicrous antics, returning, however, to carry off the food in triumph. When they reached the door of their tepee they never thought of carrying the meat in ; instead they would attempt to throw it in through the smoke hole. If, however, the meat missed the hole and fell outside, the "Windigokan" would never touch it and it became the prey of the bystanders, who thronged to see the fun.
   Another peculiarity of the cannibals was that they used "inverted speech." That is to say, they expressed themselves by opposites. If one wished to drink, he would announce that he was not thirsty, and if a bystander wanted him to dance, he commanded the clown not to do so.
by Alanson Skinner, from the article The Plains Ojibway, within the anthology The Southern Workman, Vol. 43, Issues 1-10.

I also screenshotted an image included in the passage, which shows some Windigokan outfits:
Quote
(http://i48.tinypic.com/n1cnx1.png)

I agree. Very Discordian. I love this stuff.

- DeadLucky
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: DeadLucky on May 24, 2010, 03:10:43 PM
I looked around a little while longer this morning, whilst my pizza was cooking for breakfast, and the internet served up some nice new warm results.

Quote
(http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5Bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f8%2f4%2f8%2f848357.jpg%5D%2ccontinueonerror%5Btrue%5D&scale=size%5B220x350%5D%2coptions%5Blimit%5D&source=url%5Bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5D%2cif%5B(%27global.source.error%27)%5D&sink=preservemd%5Btrue%5D)
Quote

The heavily fringed costume and the mask with its long crooked nose is the typical outfit of a Windigokan, aka Cannibal, Clown, or Fools dancer. The Windigokanek was a society of masked dancers who represented cannibalistic ice giants, believed to live in the far north, and prominent in Plains Ojibwa folklore. The leaders of this cult were people who had dreamed of these giants or of thunderbirds, the latter referred to by the large crooked nose of their masks. By means of their dance this cult group was believed to exorcise the demons of disease, who used to invade the Indian camps in wintertime. The Windigokan also used their herbal medicines in curing sick people. The many small moccasins attached to this particular costume may refer to success in curing children. This costume, made of tanned and smoked hide, may pre-date the late nineteenth century, since when Windigokan costumes were commonly made of old pieces of canvas. Part of this group of objects is an additional long-nosed mask made of canvas, the drum with its cloth cover, the bulbous rattles, and perhaps some of the herbal medicines. The second group of artifacts consists of some beadwork decorated charms or scapulars, the weasel skins, pipes, a pouch filled with sticks, a roll of birchbark, the flat circular rattle, and perhaps the roots. These objects were associated with the Metawin (Midewiwin) or Grand Medicine Lodge, the most important religious institution of the Ojibwa, with branches or "lodges" from Wisconsin westwards as far as Saskatchewan. This organization instructed its members in herbal and shamanistic knowledge, used in the securing of a healthy life. The Plains Ojibwa ascribed the origin of theMetawin to Nanapus a legendary culture hero who interceded between human beings and the spirits. The organization consisted of four degrees, each with increasing levels of esoteric knowledge transmitted to its members. The beadworked black cloth panels in this collection have small pockets at the back, each containing a small cowrie shell, and each shell referring to magical power transferred to the owner during the rituals of this society. These scapulars were worn on the breast by the initiated members. On one of these scapulars a human figure is pictured with its elbows and knees indicated. This is the scapular of a Metawin member of the second degree, on account of having had magic shells placed on his joints, thereby giving him clairvoyance in hunting. The beadwork on the large scapular pictures the spirits of bear and underwater monster, two of the most important manitos in the Metawin rituals. The two thunderbirds pictured on the strap most probably indicate that the owner of this scapular in his dreams had been adopted by a married couple of thunderbirds.

from: http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=681&Lot_No=77356

The whole cannibalistic ice giants thing makes it make sense, to an extent. It is still odd, however.

Another thing I came across is that, apparently, there are still some "Windigokan Warriors" around now, or people who claim to be the modern equivalent, in at least one Ojibwa tribe somewhere. They led some sort of pro-Native American protest against their local government.

-DeadLucky,
Wishing he could dress up like a beaked ice giant and hunt beef jerky.
Title: Re: Windigokan Warriors = Discordian saints?
Post by: Nast on May 25, 2010, 07:26:45 AM
This is all as interesting as the outfits are frightening!

:O