http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/saskatoon/washroom+sign+mocks+serious+issues+student+says/10789099/story.html
Not sure if srs or not. Really.
I would have preferred to see that sign reversed in response to the complaint.
This is just not how a cheeky franchise should respond.
As a Self identified Cheek I take offence at this.
Response sent.
QuoteGood Day Canadian Brewhouse,
Today I read that you have removed your cheeky washroom signs because one person felt offended.
source: http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/saskatoon/washroom+sign+mocks+serious+issues+student+says/10789099/story.html
It is a boring response and it takes too serious the issues of humour and cheeky jokes. This doesn't belong in a restaurant that identifies as cheeky.
The way this was handled was a very typical cowardly, politically correct response.
As a self-identified Cheek I take offense at the way this is handled. Not only has no one else complained, ours is a world full of jokers and tricksters. People have to have a sense of humour.
However, I do agree that the manager of the Saskatoon location handled this badly.
One example of a better alternative: Replace the signs with the gender roles reversed, have the woman peeking over the edge.
Best regards,
Reginald
Please join me at http://thecanadianbrewhouse.com/contact/
Which part is causing satire detector to fritz out?
Quote from: Cain on February 05, 2015, 08:37:43 PM
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/saskatoon/washroom+sign+mocks+serious+issues+student+says/10789099/story.html
Not sure if srs or not. Really.
It's serious. I, too, had to do a doubletake.
I can't believe a restaurant chain ever thought that was a good idea. :horrormirth: Oh, Canada!
sounds like the manager should be pranked.he was kind of a jerk.as for the rest...well...hail eris.
Weird. There was a girl at work who had a t-shirt with this design on it.
Maybe they should put this one in the men's room.
(http://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/35/86/89/400_F_35868920_6OqBsp2xhwK8l2Mw8YIbYW56FSl90TNw.jpg)
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 12:12:45 AM
Which part is causing satire detector to fritz out?
All of it. The idea. The response. The fact that someone is reporting on it.
Quote from: Cain on February 06, 2015, 07:33:34 AM
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 12:12:45 AM
Which part is causing satire detector to fritz out?
All of it. The idea. The response. The fact that someone is reporting on it.
Gotcha!
Yeah, ridiculousness everywhere.
Quote from: Cain on February 06, 2015, 07:33:34 AM
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 12:12:45 AM
Which part is causing satire detector to fritz out?
All of it. The idea. The response. The fact that someone is reporting on it.
Wellll
Maybe part of that has to do with the fact that over here, at least in the US, sexual assault and/or peeping in divided-stall restrooms is really common, which makes women tend to feel not so safe in bathrooms. Which makes the graphic not all that amusing for about half of us.
The sign was fucking horrible. The 'woah, some people just don't like funny things' compounding stupidity.
I don't know what to think, on one hand it's a bad taste sign... on the other, it's getting worked up over a small symbolic thing when there are so many more relevant things to be outraged over, and it's the same tendency of this 5 years of so, getting outraged over symbolic things, while doing nothing and ignoring the major problems.
The only thing that barely made me think about it twice is that its phrased as to seem that every single restaurant in the chain has the same sign, rather than it being an isolated instance, which makes it an institutional decision rather than an individual's bad taste.
It's probably a small symbolic thing for me if I'm at the restaurant, because it's not a sign saying "Lol, you personally being assaulted or exploited in the restroom is something that very well could happen", but in the face of all of the really big problems you acknowledge need to be addressed, it would probably be really nice to use a public toilet without being explicitly reminded of that threat, I imagine.
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 08:38:14 AM
The sign was fucking horrible. The 'woah, some people just don't like funny things' compounding stupidity.
Pretty much this.
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 09:31:36 AM
It's probably a small symbolic thing for me if I'm at the restaurant, because it's not a sign saying "Lol, you personally being assaulted or exploited in the restroom is something that very well could happen", but in the face of all of the really big problems you acknowledge need to be addressed, it would probably be really nice to use a public toilet without being explicitly reminded of that threat, I imagine.
Not very long ago I was in a restroom in a grocery store, and while I was peeing I heard unnerving breathing/sounds coming from the next stall. I left quickly, and shortly after I exited, I saw a guy come out of the bathroom. It was not a unisex bathroom.
So yeah, it can happen anywhere, and "Ha! Ha! Your privacy and/or person aren't really safe here or anywhere!" is not actually a funny joke.
Nor is "LOL! Women are just a thing that men ogle!"
Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.
So I was looking for a link to the story of a guy who had planted a camera in the nasty hole portion of one of those outhouse style bathrooms they have up in the mountain parks and instead I ran across this:
http://gawker.com/5814302/peeping-tom-hid-inside-porta-potty (http://gawker.com/5814302/peeping-tom-hid-inside-porta-potty)
QuotePolice in Boulder are currently on the lookout for a man who was apparently hiding inside a porta-potty at last week's Hanuman Yoga Festival. Let that sink in for a second.
Yes, our suspect was inside, like, inside the infernal device. A female yoga enthusiast, who will likely need years of therapy, entered the the portable toilet, only to notice "something was moving inside the tank when she lifted the lid," according to police spokeswoman Kim Kobel.
Naturally, she found someone else to double-check what could have been some kind of yogic hallucination. But he, too, saw our peeping, uh, John "inside the tank, covered in a tarp." And after the second witness left the porta potty, it mysteriously locked from the inside.
A security guard waited outside until the man emerged, shirtless, with "several cuts on his back and legs," wearing two leather bracelets. "The supervisor," Kobel told the press, "tried to detain the suspect, but he ran away, covered in feces."
Police believe his name is "Sky."
Oh. Nevermind. The story I was looking for originally was just as bad. Gah:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HT_and_Regs/conversations/topics/187?var=1 (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HT_and_Regs/conversations/topics/187?var=1)
QuoteJan. 8 - A Fort Collins man has been arrested in a notorious Peeping-Tom case, in which he allegedly stood at the bottom of a park latrine to spy on and videotape women using the outhouse.
The incident was reported after a woman entered the latrine and noticed a red light below the toilet seat. When she looked closer, she realized a man was standing in the sewage vault with a video camera, said Deputy Cindy Gordon.
The victim yelled, and the man escaped from the outhouse through a nearby manhole. He was wearing fishing waders and plastic bags, according to earlier reports.
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 06, 2015, 10:43:58 PM
Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.
Most bathrooms here are separate, but creepers sneak in and lurk in a stall until an unsuspecting woman comes in so they can get their jollies listening to her pee.
I actually am less worried about it in gender-neutral bathrooms.
To clarify: I think it was a fairly douchey thing to do, but the response probably wasn't going to convince anybody who didn't already think that was the case, and in fact might have even helped undermine it.
I am pretty fascinated by the political economy of online gender wars, however. I'd like to see someone tackle that, because certain sites are raking it in due to their focus on it, and it seems smaller media are now cottoning onto the fact.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 06, 2015, 05:44:57 AM
Maybe they should put this one in the men's room.
(http://t2.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/35/86/89/400_F_35868920_6OqBsp2xhwK8l2Mw8YIbYW56FSl90TNw.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on February 07, 2015, 01:13:36 AM
To clarify: I think it was a fairly douchey thing to do, but the response probably wasn't going to convince anybody who didn't already think that was the case, and in fact might have even helped undermine it.
I am pretty fascinated by the political economy of online gender wars, however. I'd like to see someone tackle that, because certain sites are raking it in due to their focus on it, and it seems smaller media are now cottoning onto the fact.
Well the economy of starting wars is simple. You spark outrage and then reap profit. Nigel has given us the perfect tool. Parody. This whole restaurant business could be blown out of proportion with just the right nudge. Not much really. A pic or two. Coupla werds left in judicious places.
If it's not satire yet it could be made such with just a little tweak or two.
Also am drinking delightful coffee ale this evening. Makes me evil(er).
Quote from: Cain on February 07, 2015, 01:13:36 AM
To clarify: I think it was a fairly douchey thing to do, but the response probably wasn't going to convince anybody who didn't already think that was the case, and in fact might have even helped undermine it.
I am pretty fascinated by the political economy of online gender wars, however. I'd like to see someone tackle that, because certain sites are raking it in due to their focus on it, and it seems smaller media are now cottoning onto the fact.
She probably should have simply said that it made her uncomfortable, and then written a letter to corporate.
The manager sounds incredibly shitty, though, that is some piss-poor customer service. If he were my employee he'd be trying real hard to keep his job right now.
Two additional thoughts:
A. She could be completely lying about how the conversation went down,
B. It's Saskatoon.
To the people creeped out by this. Wouldn't having uni-sex/gender free bathrooms make this worse? Because you know numbers?
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
Quote from: Metal Bear on February 07, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
To the people creeped out by this. Wouldn't having uni-sex/gender free bathrooms make this worse? Because you know numbers?
It could.
My experience has been that it hasn't, but my guess is that that's because most places that have gender-neutral restrooms are already places where people have had sensitivity training, etc.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
I mean, basically if a business or a performer says or does something that makes me uncomfortable, I can A: go along with the status quo in order to avoid rocking the boat, B: start quietly avoiding that business or performer without saying anything, or C: explain why it makes me uncomfortable, thus offering the business or performer the option of stopping and keeping my business, or continuing and losing it.
Which seems like the most mature and reasonable option? Even for women?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
But as you said earlier, women already dont feel safe in public bathrooms. If the sign is in bad taste, or just humor, or a long lost Andy Warhol original is irrelevant. The sign is a non-issue, but by posting this on a news website it suddenly becomes something important, something to talk about. This article wasnt written to actually communicate anything, it only exists to generate ad clicks. Articles like these are information junk food, they dont contribute anything, they dont tell you anything you need to know, they dont make any new points. All you get out of it is your daily dose of anger. Its white noise and it kills your brain.
Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:
http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew
It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
But as you said earlier, women already dont feel safe in public bathrooms. If the sign is in bad taste, or just humor, or a long lost Andy Warhol original is irrelevant. The sign is a non-issue, but by posting this on a news website it suddenly becomes something important, something to talk about. This article wasnt written to actually communicate anything, it only exists to generate ad clicks. Articles like these are information junk food, they dont contribute anything, they dont tell you anything you need to know, they dont make any new points. All you get out of it is your daily dose of anger. Its white noise and it kills your brain.
You don't think that articles that talk openly about rape culture and how women feel about being objectified are important things to talk about?
You don't think that shining light on how women already feel unsafe in public bathrooms (well, all the time, really, but including public bathrooms because a fair number of assaults happen in them) is relevant to anything?
Wow, OK.
Keep in mind that this article was published in a Saskatoon paper. Saskatoon has about 200k residents. It's tiny, not that much actually happens, and this is an avenue for opening a public dialogue about social attitudes toward sexual harassment and other cultural contributors to the trivializing/victimization of women. Maybe you think that's not worth taking up space in a newspaper for, but I have a feeling that quite a few women do.
Watch out Nigel, you're getting uppity again.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 07, 2015, 05:18:02 PM
Watch out Nigel, you're getting uppity again.
I know, I know, I should sit in the back and pretend to laugh, to maintain my ladylike demeanor.
I think I'm just gonna re-quote Paes and leave it at that, because he really basically said it all.
Quote from: Pæs on February 06, 2015, 09:31:36 AM
It's probably a small symbolic thing for me if I'm at the restaurant, because it's not a sign saying "Lol, you personally being assaulted or exploited in the restroom is something that very well could happen", but in the face of all of the really big problems you acknowledge need to be addressed, it would probably be really nice to use a public toilet without being explicitly reminded of that threat, I imagine.
No wait, I do have a couple more things.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
QuoteDear Muslima,
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and...yawn...don't tell me yet again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and you can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with. Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep"chick", and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn't lay a finger on her, but even so...And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
Normally I would run like hell at this point but since I'm locked into the thread id like to issue a few warnings about the absolute statements already being thrown around.
Articles like this make great clickbait and are often slanted to shok moar but that is not relevant to whether the sign was inappropriate for a public place.
ALL women have had to deal with the ogling of men. This is not entirely our fault as we do the same to cars, delicious foods, vintage games and other men in a range of sexual and non sexual contexts. It's reflex and part of mating signaling. It must be curbed and can be but even the most well mannered gent has the autoogle still kicking.
Womens do it too.
Womens do it too.
Womens do it too.
Thrice cuz it's true.
SOME men have done enough harm that MANY OR MOST women feel uncomfortable in a public bathroom. I suspect this is in part why they tend to go in groups. One to do her business and one to kick open the other stalls looking for creepers. It's just practical.
And the sign will very uncomfortably remind the traumatized and is a bad choice.
The one vocal and assertive enough to complain should have been taken as a process indicator by the manager right away. If one pops up then probably many have been effected and the problem needs to be addressed. Then they screwed up a little and backtracked some and now we got a story.
there were at least 4 replys while I wrote this and I AIN'T reviewing 'em an' rewriting this.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
But as you said earlier, women already dont feel safe in public bathrooms. If the sign is in bad taste, or just humor, or a long lost Andy Warhol original is irrelevant. The sign is a non-issue, but by posting this on a news website it suddenly becomes something important, something to talk about. This article wasnt written to actually communicate anything, it only exists to generate ad clicks. Articles like these are information junk food, they dont contribute anything, they dont tell you anything you need to know, they dont make any new points. All you get out of it is your daily dose of anger. Its white noise and it kills your brain.
You don't think that articles that talk openly about rape culture and how women feel about being objectified are important things to talk about?
You don't think that shining light on how women already feel unsafe in public bathrooms (well, all the time, really, but including public bathrooms because a fair number of assaults happen in them) is relevant to anything?
Wow, OK.
Then why not write an article
about that? Because few people would read it. It wouldnt generate controversy. Maybe you could get the most virulent /r/theredpill idiot to be stupid about it, but the majority of people would agree with it. Do you really think that if this was an article about sexual assaults in public bathrooms anyone in this thread would deny this was a problem? This article isnt about that, its about a sign being taken down in a bar. Its stupid,
on purpose. That makes it controversial which creates more ad clicks. But that controversy doesnt help, it doesnt facilitate discussion, its just a chance for people to fling shit at each other. Articles like these make things worse. It doesnt matter what "side" of the issue they take or even what issue it is.
It's not necessarily about being traumatized, and it's not necessarily about "ogling". It's more the "LOL peeping toms, totes funny joke eh?" attitude of posting that sign in the bathroom of a public bar that is expected to be used by men and women.
I'm not going to try to speak for all women, but only for myself when I say that I think the sign is inappropriate, and, yes, reflective of facets of rape culture. Just as the woman in the article spoke for herself.
What I find more troubling than the sign, though, is the (entirely from men, so far) response of "It's not important, it's just a joke, there's no reason to make an issue of it", which seems like essentially saying "hey, we don't care what you think about this thing, we think it's trivial and funny". Which further reinforces everything said earlier about the humor of the sign trivializing women, and women's concerns and feelings.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
But as you said earlier, women already dont feel safe in public bathrooms. If the sign is in bad taste, or just humor, or a long lost Andy Warhol original is irrelevant. The sign is a non-issue, but by posting this on a news website it suddenly becomes something important, something to talk about. This article wasnt written to actually communicate anything, it only exists to generate ad clicks. Articles like these are information junk food, they dont contribute anything, they dont tell you anything you need to know, they dont make any new points. All you get out of it is your daily dose of anger. Its white noise and it kills your brain.
You don't think that articles that talk openly about rape culture and how women feel about being objectified are important things to talk about?
You don't think that shining light on how women already feel unsafe in public bathrooms (well, all the time, really, but including public bathrooms because a fair number of assaults happen in them) is relevant to anything?
Wow, OK.
Then why not write an article about that? Because few people would read it. It wouldnt generate controversy. Maybe you could get the most virulent /r/theredpill idiot to be stupid about it, but the majority of people would agree with it. Do you really think that if this was an article about sexual assaults in public bathrooms anyone in this thread would deny this was a problem? This article isnt about that, its about a sign being taken down in a bar. Its stupid, on purpose. That makes it controversial which creates more ad clicks. But that controversy doesnt help, it doesnt facilitate discussion, its just a chance for people to fling shit at each other. Articles like these make things worse. It doesnt matter what "side" of the issue they take or even what issue it is.
Oh so now controversy doesn't help and facilitate discussion.
All people do is fling shit cuz they're stupid monkeys. Or women... right RP?
Doesn't matter what side of the women's rights issue your on huh?
:nigel:
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 06, 2015, 10:11:21 AM
The existence of big, terrible things does not justify the existence of small, terrible things.
I too look forward to the glorious utopia where people dont tell jokes I dont like.
I look forward to a future in which ostensibly intelligent people don't dismiss a "joke" about women being harassed being posted in a public business as "just a sense of humor thing".
I mean, I know wanting to feel safe and reasonably respected in a bar absurdly outside of the realms of reality and clearly I don't know my place, but a girl can dream.
But as you said earlier, women already dont feel safe in public bathrooms. If the sign is in bad taste, or just humor, or a long lost Andy Warhol original is irrelevant. The sign is a non-issue, but by posting this on a news website it suddenly becomes something important, something to talk about. This article wasnt written to actually communicate anything, it only exists to generate ad clicks. Articles like these are information junk food, they dont contribute anything, they dont tell you anything you need to know, they dont make any new points. All you get out of it is your daily dose of anger. Its white noise and it kills your brain.
You don't think that articles that talk openly about rape culture and how women feel about being objectified are important things to talk about?
You don't think that shining light on how women already feel unsafe in public bathrooms (well, all the time, really, but including public bathrooms because a fair number of assaults happen in them) is relevant to anything?
Wow, OK.
Then why not write an article about that? Because few people would read it. It wouldnt generate controversy. Maybe you could get the most virulent /r/theredpill idiot to be stupid about it, but the majority of people would agree with it. Do you really think that if this was an article about sexual assaults in public bathrooms anyone in this thread would deny this was a problem? This article isnt about that, its about a sign being taken down in a bar. Its stupid, on purpose. That makes it controversial which creates more ad clicks. But that controversy doesnt help, it doesnt facilitate discussion, its just a chance for people to fling shit at each other. Articles like these make things worse. It doesnt matter what "side" of the issue they take or even what issue it is.
So you're taking issue with the way the article is written, because it doesn't draw enough attention to the issues of sexual harassment and rape culture?
Just trying to clarify your actual stance, here.
And for the third time, before anyone else decides to shift the focus to the newsworthiness of the article again... it's fucking SASKATOON. The fact that you have access to it on the internet does not make it magically no longer a SASKATOON NEWSPAPER. Just look at the other local news articles in it to get a feel for just how much happens there.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on February 07, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
Then why not write an article about that? Because few people would read it. It wouldnt generate controversy. Maybe you could get the most virulent /r/theredpill idiot to be stupid about it, but the majority of people would agree with it. Do you really think that if this was an article about sexual assaults in public bathrooms anyone in this thread would deny this was a problem? This article isnt about that, its about a sign being taken down in a bar. Its stupid, on purpose. That makes it controversial which creates more ad clicks. But that controversy doesnt help, it doesnt facilitate discussion, its just a chance for people to fling shit at each other. Articles like these make things worse. It doesnt matter what "side" of the issue they take or even what issue it is.
I'm actually starting to wonder whether you actually read the article. It was a straightforward account of the events, journalism-school style. It's not on a clickbait site, it's on a local news site.
Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.
They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.
Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.
My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 07, 2015, 06:54:59 PM
Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.
They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.
Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.
My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.
Right?
My city's local papers have spent months dissecting the minutiae of a case in which a bakery refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. I could see some random outsiders looking at the story and saying "How is this even news? It's just one shop, and since gays already know they're going to be discriminated against anyway it's basically meaningless."
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:08:06 PM
Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:
http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew
It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.
Good read, thanks.
I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 08, 2015, 02:04:41 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:08:06 PM
Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:
http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew
It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.
Good read, thanks.
I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.
Thanks
It's some tricky shit, because when you're surrounded by something all the time it tends to become invisible.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on February 07, 2015, 06:54:59 PM
Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.
They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.
Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.
My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.
I like you.Sup baby I'm fresh.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 06, 2015, 10:43:58 PM
Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.
Most bathrooms here are separate, but creepers sneak in and lurk in a stall until an unsuspecting woman comes in so they can get their jollies listening to her pee.
I actually am less worried about it in gender-neutral bathrooms.
Housemate (female) says:
I have no personal experience with men bothering women in public bathrooms.
I have heard no stories from friends about this happening.
HAHAHAHAHAHA those men are pathetic.
When I really have to pee I have no problem with going into the men`s room.
(Statements translated by me)
I'm glad at least one woman has never experienced this.
I will ask more.
Nigel, what sample size is big enough to make statements about relative occurrence?
I don't know how common it is in your environment.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 08, 2015, 02:39:19 AM
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 08, 2015, 02:04:41 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 05:08:06 PM
Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:
http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew
It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.
Good read, thanks.
I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.
Thanks
It's some tricky shit, because when you're surrounded by something all the time it tends to become invisible.
Yep, also: As a member of the gender that is not a victim of this behaviour the visibilty is lower.
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 08, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 07, 2015, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: Reginald Ret (07/05/1983 - 06/11/2014) on February 06, 2015, 10:43:58 PM
Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.
Most bathrooms here are separate, but creepers sneak in and lurk in a stall until an unsuspecting woman comes in so they can get their jollies listening to her pee.
I actually am less worried about it in gender-neutral bathrooms.
Housemate (female) says:
I have no personal experience with men bothering women in public bathrooms.
I have heard no stories from friends about this happening.
HAHAHAHAHAHA those men are pathetic.
When I really have to pee I have no problem with going into the men`s room.
(Statements translated by me)
I'm glad at least one woman has never experienced this.
I will ask more.
Nigel, what sample size is big enough to make statements about relative occurrence?
I don't know how common it is in your environment.
I'm not sure what actual occurrence rates of being perved on in the bathroom stands to prove in this conversation (what kind of frequency would it take to be a concerning possibility?) but you could probably start with a search on rape and sexual assault statistics and see what other teased-out data you can find.
A quick search resulted in a number of news stories about sexual assaults occurring in public bathrooms, and a number of other news stories discussing the controversy over unisex/trans-friendly public bathrooms -- neither of which are especially useful for answering your question.
On the subject of unisex bathrooms, I have been thinking about it and I suspect that the likelihood of being peeped/assaulted n a unisex bathroom are probably quite a bit lower than in a women-only bathroom, because both of those crimes rely on the combination of isolation and the vulnerability of the female victim, and a unisex bathroom would theoretically not only have twice the traffic, but half that traffic would be males, the vast majority of whom could reasonably be assumed to come to the assistance of a woman who was being assaulted, and are more likely to be respond with violence toward the perpetrator.
TBH I am having a hard time even grasping that I need to explain that rape/assault/other creepery is a common worry for women using public restrooms.
Would you have a hard time believing that men also deal with being peeped/assaulted by other men in shared public restrooms? Because they do. It may be less threatening for them when it occurs (I don't know if it is) but it happens. Probably with enough frequency that in most cases a reasonable person would hesitate to put a joke sign depicting a man staring at another guy's junk above the urinals.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on February 08, 2015, 10:27:09 PM
TBH I am having a hard time even grasping that I need to explain that rape/assault/other creepery is a common worry for women using public restrooms.
Would you have a hard time believing that men also deal with being peeped/assaulted by other men in shared public restrooms? Because they do. It may be less threatening for them when it occurs (I don't know if it is) but it happens. Probably with enough frequency that in most cases a reasonable person would hesitate to put a joke sign depicting a man staring at another guy's junk above the urinals.
No need to explain, I know it is an issue.
I think I did that thing again where I assume people can read my mind and I failed to communicate effectively.
I'm only curious to see if it is less common here, because if we can identify where it is less common then maybe we can find out why. Knowing why would be a step towards a solution.
I can confirm that peeping among men happens, and occasionally that makes men feel afraid and insecure.
If said joke sign would be above urinals it is a prime target for vandalism, thereby becoming a public forum for discussion of the subject. In that way it is very dissimilar from a sign on the outside of the washrooms, it is something that can be rebelled against by simply following primal urges. Maybe that is part of what is messed up about the situation in the restaurant: The signs are something done to the public, instead of something shaped by the public.
I would still laugh at such a junk-staring sign though, but that is because I am a bad person. It would definitely create some interesting dynamics in public washrooms. I predict much macho posturing including threats of violence.
On the subject of unisex bathrooms, I concur. Maybe it is a good idea to have unisex as a third bathroom option? Or fourth, counting the wheelchair bathrooms.
It looks like statistics will be hard to come by, as no doubt many voyeurs are never discovered, let alone caught and prosecuted... which also means that the women/men they spy on never know they're being watched. Makes it a little hard to track.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-27020063