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Man has been allowed to come into being and molded by the same universe that possesses the cold indifference as to the duration and quality of that existence.  It is in this spirit, that it should come to no surprise that man treats man the way it does.  That any man cares for any other man, at all, is something of a miracle.

Very well stated. Connecting the lack of intentional design, with the lack of imposed social responsibility is nice... Sething that nontheists often try to skirt arpund because its not very nice to consider.

Which is a shame, really, because that last sentence in the OP is an excellent starting point for some really nice positive humanism.

Though I think some of what seems digressive and vague is just an optical illusion generated by the cultural difference.

While I am very much willing to believe that is the case, it doesn't/wouldn't change the fact that you're being insensitive to the local culture, as well, and kinda just going on and on in your own fashion with apparently little regard for where you're doing it. Which in a blessedly impolite culture like this one, gets you a lot of shit.

I get the feeling that we're past ad nauseum here. But I'm also busy with getting ready to move, so I don't mind not feeling like posting anywhere here, right now.

Whoa, the debates are gonna actually be hilarious this time!

I just can't begin to understand how this kind of decision could be made, in this day and age. People, it's 2012, not 1912.

Bingo.

I actually hope they build them, and it goes belly up in exactly the ways you describe, Roger. It will prove some important points, for sure.

From what I gather, not against their will, but by the huge social prestige of being in that sport at an age and in an environment (highschool and college) where a lot of athletic young people think that kind of prestige is actually more important than other things. They promise young guys glory, fame, and wealth, and probably underplay the health risks.

can someone make that video into a gif emote?

Holist, this may should seem ridiculously obvious to the point that it nearly goes without saying, but when you have primary providers (former prostitutes) speaking out against an industry they were in, they not only have no financial gain from doing so, but also the high probability of financial handicap. When you have current facilitating managers (madams/pimps) in that same industry refuting those who are speaking against it, they have a vested financial interest in the industry. One group has not only power, but also financial interest, and the other group has no power and no financial interest. An impartial investigator, therefore, has to consider those variables.

On top of that, I think it's to be expected that a person who professionally exploits others to provide themselves with a comfortable life will have rationalized and justified their line of work to themselves to the point that in their head, it all totally makes sense and they are fine with themselves. The same applies even to people whose work involves regular brutal violence and murder.
On the other hand, their victims will be traumatized and tend to seem less stable.
It doesn't make much sense to judge people in that kind of situation primarily by their own view of themselves and their experience.

And one more thing, Holist:
I used to think basically what you stated – that there are miserably abused prostitutes and well-off, independent, empowered ones, and that the two are very separate from one another.
Then I read a post, a while back, from an Israeli ex-prostitute who described the kind of self-exploitation trap you keep mentioning. Basically, at first she was independent, empowered, and making ridiculous amounts of money as a classy call girl. She got addicted to the easy money, and things started spiraling down from there. In the end, she was on all kinds of drugs, abused and demolished as a person.
And that's kinda what Roger's Porn Princess story is about, really: the two groups you describe are in many (most?) cases two different stages in the same process, not two separate worlds with little contact between them. The "Happy Hooker" is just a Sex-Work Princess in the making. The ones who aren't are quite possibly unicorns.
And we've already discussed to death what makes it so difficult and unlikely for a Princess to cut her losses and quit while she's ahead, so I'm not gonna belabor that again.

Also, the stories that end up online are not going to be a representative sample, you know.

If you can't see how ridiculous/disgusting you're being, Holist, maybe you should, again, step back, and take time to think over what you wrote in that post in light of the replies. And by step back and think I don't mean between drug-addled work marathons. Wait till you have a free half hour and take some time to actually just think about it, without work, writing, or distraction. Having that kind of time is a privilege, but so is participating in online discussions, so you can evidently afford it.

Okay one more example, because I can't help myself: when writing letters to representatives is rare (as it usually is on the EU level, for example) it is also highly effective (as it was in stopping ACTA, for example.) But when a lot of fucks are given and a lot of letters are sent, no sane representative can have their staff pay attention to all the fucking letters, and the letters become less effective. So people stop sending them, and some of them get exasperated. And then they're rare, and effective, and the cycle begins again.

That's true in a sense, but a bit simplistic. There are all kinds of dynamics in play geared against the giving of fucks. To name one example, because I can't type for long, whenever enough fucks are given and the rulers end up actually improving people's situation a bit, those who have already given several fucks feel they "fixed" things, and lean back on their couch, ceasing to give fucks and content that they did their part. And that's cyclical.

I also think it's important to point out that the situation in countries like Greece and Spain is quite different from that in the USA. Both countries were under actual, total authoritarian rule just a few decades ago, and in addition, or as a result, their political systems are corrupt in ways that are impossible on the national level in the United States. Or so, at least, I am led to believe.

I'd write more but I really gotta go.

I'm in Germany, we can't watch things here. ("Blocked by EMG on copyright grounds" in this case)

Nate Silver's model says the Dems will most likely have a majority in Senate, but that it will be a slim majority. So yeah, more of the same.

Germany's centre-left Social Democrats kicked off their election campaign with what was described as a declaration of war on the banks, sparking fears in the sector that it could force the conservatives to follow suit.

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120925-45185.html

I'm all for everyone being insured no matter what they can afford, for too many reasons to even both mentioning. And I'm gonna probably just get the damn "voluntary" insurance. Just can't bring myself to believe being uninsured for a few weeks increases the probability that something will happen for which I'll need insurance.

Insite Fat City, people occasionally notice what's going on outside. Most sigh or shrug and move on. Some get angry, suggest solutions, sigh, shrug, and move on. Few actually do something about it.

Inside Fat City, that's how the system works. It's nobody's individual fault, and at the same time, it's absolutely everybody's fault.

*sigh*
*moves on*