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If I see one more time traveller try to use our history books against us, I'm just going to flip out and create a pention, and . . . and . . . 

If it is taken that we all have our own paradigms, as we all perceive reality differently, what is true to myself may not necessarily be true to the next person and vice-versa. With this in mind, if "Person A" believes in something and "Person B" believes in something else which contradicts the former's belief, is the former right in affirming their belief to the latter as an absolute? Is prefixing a statement with "In my opinion" every time political correctness to excess? Do we have the right to express our beliefs, however factual and convincing they seem to us, as facts at all?

This is bugging me. Can I take some opinions please.

I want to answer your question seriously, but I'm finding it a bit too conceptual without any concrete examples to put with it. So:

Person A hates cold weather. Person B doesn't. PA says to PB, " Damn, this weather is wack, yo" (because PA is down with tha' street). PB replies, "No, good sir, these weather conditions are not inclement. They are, instead, quite agreeable to one's disposition" (because PB is one highfalutin' sonofabitch).

I see now problem in not using IMO here. Same thing with using it:

PA: "The way I sees it, this weather be trippin'." PB: "In my humble opinion, this weather is quite nice." Still seems to work.

Another example, less innocuous:

PA: "God created the world in six literal days, the Earth is just over 6000 years old, and all land-bound animals in the world were within walking distance of a man who made a boat for a flood. God said so." PB: "The universal configuration of bodies formed as the result of some as-yet-unknown process that is presumed to have been a rather large "Bang." The Earth is really fucking old. Like, billions of years. Life progressed from the chance configuration of protein strains to create DNA, which developed over countless millenia into birds and Republicans and stuff. Various archeological and scientific evidences prove so."

In this example, the addition of "IMO" would not change anything of what they are saying, other than to assert the fact that they believe what they're saying (which should, of course, be implied by their statement and how they word it). In this and other instances where one is asserting some that they believe to be true based on various evidences, the addition of "IMO" does not usually seem to add anything significant to the dialogue, other than a way to soften the blow of the assertion one is making. Of course, if one's intent is to persuade or use rhetoric effectively, the appropriate use of "IMO" qualifiers is justified.

All in all, IMO has its uses in minute, rhetorical discourse, but for most interactions it is an unnecessary and implied qualifier that neither adds to nor detracts from the conversation. Well, that's my humble opinion, at least. 

The greater discursive and behavioral patterns that one should be on the lookout for are the tendency to impose one's data or opinion on another person when that person is unreceptive. It's one thing to have an opinion about something, or to assert that something is true; it's a whole other ballgame if one is to brazenly assert that another is somehow lesser for not believing one's idea.

For example, in the previous instance, PA could have said, following PB's statement, "Well, that's definitely evidence that is unsupported by the will of God as written in the Bible, but I'm curious to learn more. Please continue." And vice versa. Or, PA could have said, "No! You're wrong! You're a dirty atheist, and shall burn in hell if you don't believe in the Word!" And vice versa. The former would have opened up the conversation, and the latter would have shut it down and imposed PA's pattern upon PB.

Short story very long, the important thing to remember about conversing is not to pepper one's language to make it acceptable to others. Instead, the most effective way to communicate is to not try to shut down the discourse by shutting up your brain and shutting out what others have to say.

I forget what I said I was going to make the Discordian signs this issue, so if anyone wants to throw out five random things, I'll go with whichever is first or funniest, whichever comes second.

Yeti
Tube Sock
Preacher
Fairy
Republican

Quite awesome, Vex. I shall use those.

So I was just wondering what you considered your inch.

My knee-jerk was to be insincere and juvenile, saying something like "booze" in response to your question. However, I realize that that wouldn't be fair to you, since you seem to have put so much honest emotional effort into making this post.

My "inch" . . . I'm not sure I can really, fully grasp the metaphorical meaning of that, whether it is the part of me that no one can ever take from me, the thing in my life that drives me forward and gives me hope, or what. If it's talking about the former, then I suppose it would be my unique perceptions on life and love. If the latter, then I cannot express it better than by quoting Philip Larkin, who wrote,

"Only an attitude remains:

Time has transfigured them into
Untruth.  The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be
Their final blazon, and to prove
Our almost-instinct almost true:
What will survive of us is love."

-Philip Larkin, "An Arundel Tomb"

E.g. ^^

Or I'll go cry in a corner alone. I'm not kidding around here. I'll do it.

wut

Hmm... I'd be interested in seeing an issue themed around communication stuff -- mindfucks, memebombs, etc. Maybe it could be a meta-issue, like "how to do an issue of intermittens" except done entirely differently at the same time. But maybe that's too subtle, and we should just have a bunch of pages of horses doing unmentionable things to animated anthro rabbit children and moustacio'd men yelling things that are not kosher.

I haven't read this issue yet, but I plan to. If it's total crap, I fully intend to spam you spags with essays on why none of you are real, the government doesn't exist, cats are better than dogs, all horses have infinite legs, no essays can ever be written, batteries are powered by souls and gish magic, and 4chan is the planet's only hope against the mooninite invasion. And if that doesn't work, then I'll just be annoying until I get bored. I hope it doesn't come to that.

You can be guaranteed of it's awesomeness; I contributed to it*





*Note: those two claims are not necessarily related.

[Whoroscopeby Manta Obscura]

Here is the Western Zodiac for this issue. I will work on the Discordian one - as well as the Discordian Sign descriptions - shortly. I forget what I said I was going to make the Discordian signs this issue, so if anyone wants to throw out five random things, I'll go with whichever is first or funniest, whichever comes second.

Anyway, here it is:

Whoroscope
by Manta Obscura

Your Birthday Today

Congratulations on being born and surviving long enough to read this! As a celebration of the miracle of your birth, call up a condom company's customer service line and thank them for making a product just faulty enough to allow your conception.

Aries
March 21-April 19

The emerging presence of greenhouse gases have affected the power of astrological configurations. This month you would have gotten a pay raise, won the lottery and had a sexual orgy with three timid-but-adventuresome twenty-somethings. But thanks to your Land Rover you get a ticket for jaywalking, a repossessed car and a case of the clap.

Taurus
April 20-May 20

You have never satisfied your lover sexually, and they are waiting until after Valentine's Day to dump you so they can benefit from the full present-giving experience.

Don't put too much effort into those "free erotic massage" coupons.

Gemini
May 21-June 20

I see what you did there. Stop reading this in the bathroom and have some self-respect.

Cancer
June 21-July 22

Your sign still sucks. Seriously, kill yourself.

Leo
July 23-August 22

It's not yours. Let's just say that she gets a special deal on home-delivered dairy products.

Virgo
August 23-September 22

My spiritual guides are telling me to tell you that now is the time to take chances with new start-up business endeavors. I say go for it. I mean, hell, it's not my money, what do I care?

Libra
September 23-October 22

The lack of success you have with romantic relationships has less to do with the exerted power of astrological bodies upon your life, and more to do with the fact that you're an insecure, domineering asshole.

Scorpio
October 23-November 21

On December 31, 2012, the world is going to come to an end. For serious. Nostradamus predicted it and shit.

Tell your friends.

Sagittarius
November 22-December 21

Stop making jokes about fruitcake during the holiday season. Just. Fucking. Stop. It.

That shit is good.

Capricorn
December 22-January 19

The homeless guy on the corner of Fifth and Vine is the spiritual advisor you've been searching for. Go and meet him.

The code phrase is, "If it's yellow, let it mellow."

Aquarius
January 20-February 18

You and everyone you love will one day die and rot in the ground, never knowing any permanent joy or obtaining the oft-sought Paradise for which you'd hoped. As your body crumbles and society's memory of you slips away, the stars shall ever shine their cold light upon your cursed descendents, who will walk the earth with the same futile hopes you once held in this godless universe.

Have a nice day.

Pisces
February 19-March 20

You're astrological sign's name can be rearranged to spell "spices." This is widely-regarded as the only interesting or noteworthy thing that can be claimed about anyone born under this sign.

This thread is priceless.

Thread-drift:

So, how about that this weather?

I personally would like to stay away from "light vs dark" because I'm concerned it will reinforce the assumption that the BiP is Negative. Personally, I'd like the GSP to focus on the "possibilities" of looking at how we perceive our world. A Prison might be a great metaphor sometimes, Shrapnel sometimes, Ruts and Peaks and Slopes sometimes, Golden Spheres sometimes... and all of them might be useful to look at... all of them might usefully model some aspects of your life... Sometimes we're trapped by our decision, like in a prison, sometimes people have a lasting effect on us like Shrapnel, sometimes we're stuck in a Rut, sometimes we have a modicum of control and get to go explore.

If we play this Light vs Dark, I think we create an unnecessary Either/OR rather than an AND.

Thoughts?

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I was only referring to light and dark side stuff to play with connecting Star Wars memes to the issue.

For some reason, your post made me think that the future BIP/GSP/YSS/whatever project might work best as one of those old "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. Everyone starts on page one in prison, they turn the page and decide whether they want to continue with the BIP model (go to page 14), try out the GSP model (go to page 67), take on the Yellow Steel Submarine (cruise on over to page 101), or open up a can-o-whoopass in the Grayish Bouncy Wrestling Ring (triple suplex over to page 72).

In the end, every path leads to your character dying, just like in real Choose Your Own Adventure books.

Not speaking Chinese, I cannot attest to the quality of my copy's translation.

However, I can tell you I get a good sense of what's going on, and that the translator is one W.J.F. Jenner.

I can also tell you that Journey to the West inspired the original Dragonball cartoon.   

Ah, thanks, I'll have to check out that translator. I had to read some sections of it a long while back in Spanish, loved it, and then made the mistake of picking it up in English by some translator who had the intellectual equivalent of Tourette's, peppering the manuscript with context-less phrases.

The monk dude from J2tW also appears in some television show called "Read or Die," btw.

rewriting Discordian lit is akin to a Jedi building his own lightsaber.

Appropriate metaphor, Cram. In the case of the GSP and the BIP, there's even a "light" side and a "dark" side, too.

So I was just wondering what you considered your inch.

My knee-jerk was to be insincere and juvenile, saying something like "booze" in response to your question. However, I realize that that wouldn't be fair to you, since you seem to have put so much honest emotional effort into making this post.

My "inch" . . . I'm not sure I can really, fully grasp the metaphorical meaning of that, whether it is the part of me that no one can ever take from me, the thing in my life that drives me forward and gives me hope, or what. If it's talking about the former, then I suppose it would be my unique perceptions on life and love. If the latter, then I cannot express it better than by quoting Philip Larkin, who wrote,

"Only an attitude remains:

Time has transfigured them into
Untruth.  The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be
Their final blazon, and to prove
Our almost-instinct almost true:
What will survive of us is love."

-Philip Larkin, "An Arundel Tomb"

It's 3D with glasses

Wow . . .

Well said.

Also, whether or not I might agree with the particular beliefs of people on this forum, I bet we communicate in the same idiom, so to speak.

I'm a total spag for replying with a RAW quote, but nevertheless:


Celine reared back as if I had waved offal under his nose. "Objectivists?" he pronounced the word as if I had accused him of being a child-molester. "We're anarchists and outlaws, goddam it. Didn't you understand that much? We've got nothing to do with right-wing, left-wing or any other half-assed political category. If you work within the system, you come to one of the either/or choices that were implicit in the system from the beginning. You're talking like a medieval serf, asking the first agnostic whether he worships God or the Devil. We're outside the system's categories. You'll never get the hang of our game if you keep thinking in flat-earth imagery of right and left, good and evil, up and down. If you need a group label for us, we're political non-Euclideans. But even that's not true. Sink me, nobody of this tub agrees with anybody else about anything, except maybe what the fellow with the horns told the old man in the clouds: Non serviam."

Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea, Illuminatus!

You would be a total spag with or without the quote, Cram. 

But yeah, Anton is right, that quote is pretty nanners. I generally didn't like Hagbard, but he said some neat things throughout the novels.

Rereading the beginning of Journey to the West, a long Chinese folktale comprised of smaller folktales that was gathered together centuries ago.

Ah, I love that story. Never been able to find a great English translation, though.