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Messages - Cramulus

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Or Kill Me / Re: Ruminating on Gurus
« on: June 07, 2021, 08:36:36 pm »
I like what you said about seeking oblivion vs seeking life.

Gurdjieff was one of those I had in mind for the third type of guru. Not na´ve and still striving to help those who strive to live. From reading your experiences it seems like you have found a group that isn't overridden by the seekers of oblivion. Congrats on that. I'm still trying to decide if I should continue attending the cabal meetings, and the above post was my attempt at sorting through some of that. The fact that much of the discussion revolves around the works of Gurdjieff raises difficult concerns for me because of my bias and past experiences, because I see him as having the role of a guru. For now I'm leaning towards sticking around because at the very least it gives my mind something to chew on during the quiet hours at work.

Do what's needed!
Gurdjieff is not for everybody. If it's not your thing, don't sweat it. For real.

Our cabal is exploring his thought together, but we are not a "4th Way" group. We're a "5th Way" group.  :fnord: That's our own thing.

Our way, which we're creating as we go,
is about breaking into the temple and trying on its regalia.

We owe nothing to Gurdjieff himself. The old mage has been dead for 70 years.
We're like vikings cruising down the fjord looking for a temple to raid. But we don't want the gold.

all that being said, remember there are two different meetings, which alternate weeks. This coming Wednesday is actually the Potluck Cult.
We'll be talking about The Art of Memetics. We'll be joined by the illustrator and one of the authors.

"I am a crock of shit. In my view, Discordianism is this. It is seeking to fulfil that which novelty cannot. It is a bottomless striving. It is endless seeking. It is self deception where necessary, and where possible it is staring at the naked reality, no matter how unpleasant. It is ritual for the biological urge for ritual. It is gathering and dividing. It is hooking objective reality to subjective value, winding up the springs, and marching disorderly into the unknown. It is clear as mud, mystery that requires pickaxes, and likely always poop at the core."

what a crock of shit!!  :)

Literate Chaotic / Re: Aspiring to Bullshit
« on: June 07, 2021, 06:35:21 pm »
The path between the two is narrow, but don't hesitate, or the current will take you back.

I thought maybe I could share a few quatrains from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, as a digestif.

So when at last the Angel of the drink
of Darkness finds you by the river-brink,
   And, proferring his Cup, invites your Soul
Forth to your lips to quaff it--do not shrink.

And fear not lest Existence closing your
Account, should lose, or know the type no more;
    The Eternak Saki from that Bowl has pour'd
Millions of Bubbles like us, and will pour.

When You and I behind the Veil are past,
Oh, but the long long while the World shall last,
    Which of our coming and departure heeds
As much as Ocean of a pebble-cast

One Moment in Annihilation's Waste,
One Moment, the Well of Life to taste---
    The Stars are setting, and the Caravan
Draws to the Dawn of Nothing--Oh, make haste!

But if in vain, down on the stubborn floor
Of Earth, and up to Heaven's unopening Door,
    You gaze To-Day, while You are You--how then
To-morrow, You when shall be You no more?

Oh, threats of Hell and Hopes of Paradise!
One thing at least is certain--This Life flies;
    One thing is certain and the rest is Lies;
The Flower that once is blown for ever dies.

Strange, is it not? that of the myriads who
Before us pass'd the door of Darkness through,
    Not one returns to tell us of the Road,
Which to discover we must travel too.

Bring and Brag / Re: music store employees - a tribute
« on: June 07, 2021, 04:25:01 pm »
I enjoyed that

Or Kill Me / Re: Ruminating on Gurus
« on: June 07, 2021, 04:19:21 pm »
This is a good post, a lot of good thought in there.

I'm with you in that I am immediately on guard when someone says they have all the answers, or that they have this great shortcut / life hack which will only cost you $19.99, etc etc. When I started reading about Gurdjieff, I was on high alert against being subsumed by cult dynamics.

But I also know that there are certain things out there -- often they are abstract spiritual topics, like meditation, or techniques that are best transimtted by example -- which I cannot necessarily figure out all by myself. Words you read in a book fall short. I need someone to lead me to the place. This requires trust. This trust can be abused. Intentional inner change is always risky (or else it is worthless).

To navigate this dangerous terrain, there are two pieces of armor I keep polished:

-Verification. A good teacher doesn't ask you to take anything on faith. You have to do your own work to verify what's given to you. (I think - most things you haven't verified yourself should be regarded as empty until proven otherwise) This raises a deep question though -- How can we verify the intangible? What does it mean to KNOW something? To have a real understanding of the cosmos and the self? (This mystery is the essence of gnosticism.)

-Discordianism. Eris has a powerful weapon in her arsenal: laughter. The Principia Discordia is not fucking around when it presents laughter as the highest tier of magical tools. Laughing at someone blunts their authority. Laughing at yourself can jailbreak you from your trajectory. With the flip of a mental switch, you can reevaluate what you're doing and go "ehhh most of this is probabably bullshit, lol". If we can see ourselves as a cosmic shmuck, then the banana peels that the cosmos lays for us are no longer dangerous, but part of this slapstick routine. Fundamentalism and orthodoxy crumble as soon as you stop taking them so seriously. And sometimes we need to take things seriously, we just also need to remain flexible, to not get trapped.


I have just a bit more about this subject, then hopefully I'll be off to the races delving into other topics. For now I'm just trying to process some fears and other feelings so I can repair some of my faculties.

It's good! the processing you're doing right now--

there are feelings you've probably been ignoring, and they're finally loud enough to enter your conscious presence. THIS is the moment you've been waiting for.

Doing what needs doing is gonna take a lot of effort and energy, from a certain perspective it's a lot easier to give in and just drop to the bottom.

"you can't get there from here"

you've pushed the skiff out onto the lake, but that energy has passed and now you're just drifting

this thread is a noble recognition that your current trajectory is insufficent to reach the far shore.

You will need MORE energy, MORE effort

and also MORE FUEL,
which you can get in the form of impressions received during I'm Really Alive Right Now type experiences.

I'll really try to show up at the next cabal pot luck... I guess that is what I'm trying to say. Any idea when that'll be? And what is the next subject? I can at least attempt reading something. Hopefully I can bring something other than my usual "We're all going to die anyway" downerism to stink up the table.

no pressure! you do you, nade :)

This Wednesday, we're discussing chapters 4-5 of Unknowable Gurdjieff
On 6/9, we'll be discussing the second half of The Art of Memetics (we'll be joined by the book's artist, Ray Carney, and one of the authors, Ed Lobo.)

as always, we are talking about lofty topics but our focus is practical: how to get free. how to build a discordian practice. how to function as a cabal. how to be together despite the chasms between us. what does it mean to follow Eris in 2021?

I start to wonder. Do I functionally exist at all?

what is not watered

and the withered flower collects no sun

You say your contact with your spouse has diminished too -- so this is not just a hermit problem, your atrophy exists in other people's lives too, and this is a problem.

The human being comes equipped with a lot of hardware, much of it is social. You're not gonna feel ALIVE until you're a whole hog (so to speak). If you live in your head, you're only living 1/3rd of a life.

Though you didn't ask it -- my advice to you
is to focus on a type of sensing that you've gotten rusty at

when you're talking to someone else

get out of your head

sense THEIR emotional experience
sense what THEY are feeling
and don't immediately use that as an input to boot up some Talking Machine--stay out of that place

try doing something for someone else

try to CARE about the other person

if you can reconnect with that feeling, if you can re-engage your heart,
then you can start to live again

until then, your grave deserves to read

   "He was a tube
   food went in, poop came out"

Is that all?

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 28, 2021, 03:54:39 pm »
I'm looking for a piece of Subgenius writing which encouraged people to burn a twenty dollar bill. Something about it being a form of Subgenius initiation  .. to experience the resistance to the destruction of your own slack, to feel the slack burn away into the air. Sound familiar to any of you naked old losers?

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 24, 2021, 08:56:16 pm »
4. Roger's nipples now have four different textures of hair. That's course, curly, fine, and something we've been calling "Kramer"

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 20, 2021, 09:38:50 pm »
dang dude, you've had that job forever

congrats on the new growth

Or Kill Me / Re: from kether to malkuth
« on: May 14, 2021, 02:11:12 pm »

love the image of the anti-tower of babel

what an illegible being
what an illegible world

Apple Talk / Re: Everyday Religious Experiences
« on: April 30, 2021, 09:05:24 pm »
there is a gnostic meditation exercise (the gurdjieff "sensing" exercise, sometimes called 'the morning sitting') which opens my pineal gland RIGHT up

Apple Talk / Re: Introductions, Part VI: Welcome to Our PD Party
« on: April 17, 2021, 12:17:01 pm »
I don't dislike you, Cram, it's just that your business methods are unscrupulous, and you teach people that it's okay to have an MBA.

I wish you'd stop harassing people about their Micro Ball Awards though. The institute has been trying to comfort these people by giving them awards. They have nothing else but their tiny, tiny, award winning balls.

Literate Chaotic / Chao Te Ching cited in book about HERESY
« on: April 16, 2021, 03:42:25 pm »
Hey LMNO & Friends, check this out:

A recent academic paper, Immanent eschaton, Discordian and Deleuzian dissimulations of the Goddess, by Benjamin J. Austin, cites our very own Chao Te Ching.

The paper is published in the book Heresy and Borders in the Twentieth Century (Routledge Studies in Religion)

The paper contains this section:

the citation:

placid dingo is cited too! Citation #30:

I've attached the paper itself, in case anyone is curious

Apple Talk / Re: Introductions, Part VI: Welcome to Our PD Party
« on: April 16, 2021, 01:36:41 pm »
Hey, I'm new. Well, I've lurked here on and off for a while, but new to saying anything (not that I'm likely to say very much, I suspect).
I found discordia five or six years ago, thought it was funny, and kept coming back to it for some reason. I have trouble expressing why it seems important, maybe I'm just scared of never doing anything that matters.
At the moment I'm into theoretical computer science and stories that are wholly metaphorical, but part of why I'm here (other than probably needing to get some social interaction somewhere) is that I keep running into the same ideas and it seems like being here might make it harder to let myself get stuck.

As far as recipes go, all I've really got to share is my housemate's halloween drink, consisting of lemon juice, sugar, peach schnapps, green food colouring and as much shredded mint as will fit in the bottle.


you say you keep coming back to Discordia, but why? what's next? what's it leading you to?
you're right that it's more than just a ha-ha --- but what else? we desperately need new popes to tell us

Welcome to the time sump.  There's a ton of short fiction, a novel or two, enough recipes to give you gout, and we have a Cramulus issue.

you have a cramulus issue, old man  :argh!:

I have a Cramulus SOLUTION

Think for Yourself, Schmuck! / Re: Intermittens: Road Trips
« on: April 15, 2021, 07:19:32 pm »
I'm still trying to come up with something, myself.

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