My son is 17 years old. He's already enlisted in the marines, and has a disturbing tendency to act far too responsibly for his age.
Now, being a 17 year old, he MUST rebel. Here's where the fun is. He comes in last Friday night at 2AM, while I'm downstairs grabbing a sammich, as I was up far too late reading.
Me: "Hey, kid, what's up?"
Ian: "I didn't mean to be this late."
Me: *shrug* "Curfew doesn't apply to 17 year olds in Tucson."
Ian: "..."
Me: "What?"
Ian: "I thought you'd be mad or something."
Me: "About what?"
Ian: "Me being out so late."
Me: "Why?" (Puzzled look on face) "You're a grown man."
Ian (out loud): "Oh." (Look on face): RAGE AGAINST TEH...WAIT! WAT?
:lulz:
Rebelling against Dad is like rebelling against Lenny Bruce.
TGRR,
Zen and the Art of Parenting.
Make that kid do more rebelling, or he will suddenly blow a gasket and do it when he is too old to do so safely.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 14, 2011, 02:27:48 AM
Make that kid do more rebelling, or he will suddenly blow a gasket and do it when he is too old to do so safely.
I am oppressing him by not giving him anything to be angsty about.
This shit WORKS!
Although my dad and TGRR are completely different people, I can vouch for this method. I mean, just look how I turned out!
Quote from: Cainad on April 14, 2011, 02:37:50 AM
Although my dad and TGRR are completely different people, I can vouch for this method. I mean, just look how I turned out!
Puffed up like a blowfish, all full o' rage? :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 02:40:00 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 14, 2011, 02:37:50 AM
Although my dad and TGRR are completely different people, I can vouch for this method. I mean, just look how I turned out!
Puffed up like a blowfish, all full o' rage? :lulz:
:lulz: Well yeah, but that's incidental and more due to inherently bad wiring (also the Internet). I meant the part where my teenage years were spent not being in trouble and being on positive terms with my parents.
:lulz:
Epic Parenting. He's actually figuring out the value of discipline himself. :lulz:
Quote from: Richter on April 14, 2011, 02:47:11 AM
Epic Parenting. He's actually figuring out the value of discipline himself. :lulz:
Yes, he'll have nobody to blame but himself. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 02:30:15 AM
Quote from: Donald Coyote on April 14, 2011, 02:27:48 AM
Make that kid do more rebelling, or he will suddenly blow a gasket and do it when he is too old to do so safely.
I am oppressing him by not giving him anything to be angsty about.
This shit WORKS!
:lulz:
Now THIS is artful parenting!
My parents were very similar.
My curfew after 17 was, "4am or don't come home until the next morning...I don't want you waking us up."
I didn't have curfew because there was no where to go and no one to hang out with. Had I grown up anywhere else, I don't think I'd have come home at all, from my 16th birthday on. :P
Nice job, Roger. :)
I've never had a curfew. I just don't get to sleep over at the guy's houses willy nilly unless it's a party and I wouldn't be safe to drive home. I just have to be home before my mother inevitably wakes up because her 6th sense tells her I am not home and OMG SHE MUST BE DEAD. Which is more than reasonable I think, especially considering some of my friend's experiences with parents....They usually make me do this. :aaa: :asplode:
Roger, thank you. I've been doing it wrong all along. I am going to try this on JW.
See I had a curfew even after I had kids and had to move back home. I rebelled so badly against how rigid my parents were I was afraid to be that bad, but then with JW, who was sneaking out of windows at 8, I decided it was either stay on him like glue or pick him up from jail on a regular basis.
Maybe jail would have been better for him than an overprotective, slightly insane mother. :lulz:
I didn't have a curfew (well, or a mom - she moved to Everett when I was 15) but there was nothing to do and the one time I tried to go to a party I got raped, so that put kind of a damper on further explorations. :lol:
My oldest is 13 and she doesn't have a curfew per se, I just need to know where she is and who she's with all the time. Thank god for cell phones! I might be a little overprotective but being able to stay in constant communication really eases my mind.
That's how my parents dealt. If they knew where I was, who I was with, and what I was doing, as long as I was up in time for school with minimal bitching, it was cool.
I never had a curfew. My mom's approach to parenting was the "off leash" method. No idea how I turned out so in touch and responsible.
ETA: Well no, I know how. If you've ever heard about kids who were abandoned and raised by wolves, I was raised by books. It was funny as hell when I saw Megamind, because I used to mispronounce big words I'd never heard out loud all the time. I used to think it was "bed raggled" instead of bedraggled.
Quote from: Luna on April 14, 2011, 04:48:06 PM
That's how my parents dealt. If they knew where I was, who I was with, and what I was doing, as long as I was up in time for school with minimal bitching, it was cool.
Just check in. That's all they asked.
I have no idea if I had a curfew or not, because I usually had nowhere to go or anyone to be with. I'm sure they would have been lenient, though.
Staying home and reading books was more fun than being ostracized by my so-called "peers", so...
Maybe my parents recognized the potential in me to be a wild child and early on decided the best way to deal with that was to be controlling to the extreme.
I had a curfew even after I was an adult.
I remember one time, I was supposed to be home at 11:00 (my weekend curfew until I was 18). I was on my way home and there was an accident. I was 7 minutes late. Even though I was able to prove there was an accident and I was stuck in traffic I was still grounded for 7 weeks. Their reasoning was I should have given myself enough time to get home accident or no.
I'm much more leniant on my kids. The boys can pretty much do as they please as long as they keep in touch with me and don't expect me to come get them in the middle of the night. Now Joy, well she's only 11 so.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
Staying home and reading books was more fun than being ostracized by my so-called "peers", so...
...so you kept the faith, developed your weirdness, and now you're out having piles of rock n roll with Big Gay Cowboys, and they're drinking shitty beer, watching the game, and waiting for the inevitable heart attack to come and give them the final mercy.
Guess what? You win.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
Staying home and reading books was more fun than being ostracized by my so-called "peers", so...
...so you kept the faith, developed your weirdness, and now you're out having piles of rock n roll with Big Gay Cowboys, and they're drinking shitty beer, watching the game, and waiting for the inevitable heart attack to come and give them the final mercy.
Guess what? You win.
Indeed. I was just thinking the same thing last night, in the middle of our set-- sweat dripping off my forehead, making a joyful noise unto the Rawk, the cheers of applause, crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentations of the women.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
Staying home and reading books was more fun than being ostracized by my so-called "peers", so...
...so you kept the faith, developed your weirdness, and now you're out having piles of rock n roll with Big Gay Cowboys, and they're drinking shitty beer, watching the game, and waiting for the inevitable heart attack to come and give them the final mercy.
Guess what? You win.
Indeed. I was just thinking the same thing last night, in the middle of our set-- sweat dripping off my forehead, making a joyful noise unto the Rawk, the cheers of applause, crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentations of the women.
Yeah. I attended my 20 year class reunion. It did me a world of good...I realized that I'm actually HAPPY, after all these years...And the people that told me to "grow up", or "get right", etc are all OLD. Not old like I'm old, you know, the inevitable eyesight and joint issues that come with being in your 40s, but old in their heads.
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's
necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Fuck, yes.
I'm beginning to wake up and realize that this divorce may be one of the better things that's happened to me.
Quote from: Luna on April 14, 2011, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Fuck, yes.
I'm beginning to wake up and realize that this divorce may be one of the better things that's happened to me.
1. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
2. You're never too old to rock n roll.
3. The fun never stops, even though you might. So don't stop.
4. Each day, ask yourself if you're grateful to be alive. If you're ENJOYING it. If you aren't, find out why and change it.
5. Happiness cannot be measured in terms of small green paper rectangles, though they DO make things easier. But rock n roll isn't about "easy". It's about stomping all over your life and teaching your life who the fucking boss is.
:mittens:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
Yeah. I attended my 20 year class reunion. It did me a world of good...I realized that I'm actually HAPPY, after all these years...And the people that told me to "grow up", or "get right", etc are all OLD. Not old like I'm old, you know, the inevitable eyesight and joint issues that come with being in your 40s, but old in their heads.
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Yep! This is the only way to be.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:29:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 14, 2011, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Fuck, yes.
I'm beginning to wake up and realize that this divorce may be one of the better things that's happened to me.
1. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
2. You're never too old to rock n roll.
3. The fun never stops, even though you might. So don't stop.
4. Each day, ask yourself if you're grateful to be alive. If you're ENJOYING it. If you aren't, find out why and change it.
5. Happiness cannot be measured in terms of small green paper rectangles, though they DO make things easier. But rock n roll isn't about "easy". It's about stomping all over your life and teaching your life who the fucking boss is.
Oh, yes.
1. Absolutely true.
2. "Old" is a state of mind, not a number. I was old, I'm getting younger all the time. (And, yo, Dimo, when the hell is the next show?)
3. Working on it. I've gone from sitting around the house to almost never being in my apartment. This is a good thing.
4. That's a tough one. Introspection, NOT my strong suit... but I'm enjoying a hell of a lot more than I used to, so I must be doing it right.
5. I'm considering taking a pay cut to find a job that pisses me off less, but it's nice to be able to, say, spring for dinner out for myself and friends once in awhile without wondering if I'll be eating ramen noodles in a week to cover it. Life and I are slowly coming to terms over.
If, by the end of the day, I haven't done at least one that brings me joy, I feel that I wasted an opportunity.
Interestingly enough, quite a few f those moments have involved this forum.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 14, 2011, 06:17:24 PM
Staying home and reading books was more fun than being ostracized by my so-called "peers", so...
...so you kept the faith, developed your weirdness, and now you're out having piles of rock n roll with Big Gay Cowboys, and they're drinking shitty beer, watching the game, and waiting for the inevitable heart attack to come and give them the final mercy.
Guess what? You win.
Indeed. I was just thinking the same thing last night, in the middle of our set-- sweat dripping off my forehead, making a joyful noise unto the Rawk, the cheers of applause, crushing my enemies, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentations of the women.
Yeah. I attended my 20 year class reunion. It did me a world of good...I realized that I'm actually HAPPY, after all these years...And the people that told me to "grow up", or "get right", etc are all OLD. Not old like I'm old, you know, the inevitable eyesight and joint issues that come with being in your 40s, but old in their heads.
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
There is much truth in this post.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:29:50 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 14, 2011, 07:18:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
It also gave me real insight on the idea of "gray". These guys believed the lies about having to settle down and be good little citizens, worry about shit like the lawn and keeping up appearances.
And it occurred to me that being "disreputable" isn't just fun, it's necessary. After all these years, I finally understand The Terrible Old Man, and what he tried to tell all of his descendants...It ain't about what you have, but about who you are, and whether or not you enjoy your life, or just tolerate it.
Fuck, yes.
I'm beginning to wake up and realize that this divorce may be one of the better things that's happened to me.
1. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
2. You're never too old to rock n roll.
3. The fun never stops, even though you might. So don't stop.
4. Each day, ask yourself if you're grateful to be alive. If you're ENJOYING it. If you aren't, find out why and change it.
5. Happiness cannot be measured in terms of small green paper rectangles, though they DO make things easier. But rock n roll isn't about "easy". It's about stomping all over your life and teaching your life who the fucking boss is.
I need to make this my mantra.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 02:26:14 AM
My son is 17 years old. He's already enlisted in the marines, and has a disturbing tendency to act far too responsibly for his age.
Now, being a 17 year old, he MUST rebel. Here's where the fun is. He comes in last Friday night at 2AM, while I'm downstairs grabbing a sammich, as I was up far too late reading.
Me: "Hey, kid, what's up?"
Ian: "I didn't mean to be this late."
Me: *shrug* "Curfew doesn't apply to 17 year olds in Tucson."
Ian: "..."
Me: "What?"
Ian: "I thought you'd be mad or something."
Me: "About what?"
Ian: "Me being out so late."
Me: "Why?" (Puzzled look on face) "You're a grown man."
Ian (out loud): "Oh." (Look on face): RAGE AGAINST TEH...WAIT! WAT?
:lulz:
Rebelling against Dad is like rebelling against Lenny Bruce.
TGRR,
Zen and the Art of Parenting.
Horrors! I was raised in a christian cult that was practically Amish so at 17 I did what all good teenagers do, rebelled and ran off from home. But what you've described here - nothing to rage at - that would REALLY fuck a teenager up. heh heh :lulz:
Quote from: Dysnomia on April 14, 2011, 07:27:56 AM
I just have to be home before my mother inevitably wakes up because her 6th sense tells her I am not home and OMG SHE MUST BE DEAD. Which is more than reasonable I think, especially considering some of my friend's experiences with parents....They usually make me do this. :aaa: :asplode:
Sounds like your mom and mine are quite alike.
I handled it differently though.
I just couldn't relax as long as I knew I could be found.
It took me years to break her so I could spend some time unfindable without her freaking out when I got back.
Breaking her left some scars on her, i often flinch when she is too careful in asking things of me.
It's one of the few things that are a constant reminder that i am just another horrible human, just as bad as all the others.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 03:02:35 AMYes, he'll have nobody to blame but himself. :lulz:
I think everyone here that has ever been or had a parent knows that's not true. :wink:
Quote from: ch3mist on April 19, 2011, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 03:02:35 AMYes, he'll have nobody to blame but himself. :lulz:
I think everyone here that has ever been or had a parent knows that's not true. :wink:
Just because you are a screwed up little monkey who can't deal doesn't mean everyone else is.
Quote from: ch3mist on April 19, 2011, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 03:02:35 AMYes, he'll have nobody to blame but himself. :lulz:
I think everyone here that has ever been or had a parent knows that's not true. :wink:
Fate is inevitably in your own hands. I know quite a few people who are excellent human beings despite their upbringing. Just because you failed at growing up doesn't mean you blame it on your parents.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 20, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Quote from: ch3mist on April 19, 2011, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2011, 03:02:35 AMYes, he'll have nobody to blame but himself. :lulz:
I think everyone here that has ever been or had a parent knows that's not true. :wink:
Fate is inevitably in your own hands. I know quite a few people who are excellent human beings despite their upbringing. Just because you failed at growing up doesn't mean you blame it on your parents.
Truth.
I think that is one of my biggest peeves. People who continue to use their terrible childhood into adulthood as an excuse for being a pathetic excuse for a human being. At some point you have to pull on your big girl panties and take responsibility for your own actions. There is nothing less attractive than a 30 something person who is a complete shit and says "Oh it isn't my fault, I had a terrible childhood....." :argh!:
Yes, I may end up being the reason my children need years of therapy, but as they say kids do not come with an instruction manual. I did my best and if my best isn't/wasn't good enough, then I really am sorry. Do better with your own kids and be very very happy I didn't raise you like my parents did me.
Yes, to a point. I have a friend who is going through therapy because she was having a really hard time, and fairly severe emotional and social problems. As she dug through her past, she started realizing that her mom was a really horrible person, and that it corrupted any sense of a normal relationship or social skill she may have developed.
So, now she's aware of it, and it's not an excuse, but it is a reason. She's dealing with it the best she can, but this isn't one of those things where you can just say, "get over it, already" and it goes away.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 20, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
Yes, to a point. I have a friend who is going through therapy because she was having a really hard time, and fairly severe emotional and social problems. As she dug through her past, she started realizing that her mom was a really horrible person, and that it corrupted any sense of a normal relationship or social skill she may have developed.
So, now she's aware of it, and it's not an excuse, but it is a reason. She's dealing with it the best she can, but this isn't one of those things where you can just say, "get over it, already" and it goes away.
There are exceptions to everything. I mean is there one single topic that there is never an exception(s) too? I was speaking in general terms....
Which I'm pretty sure you knew already...... :|
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 20, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
Yes, to a point. I have a friend who is going through therapy because she was having a really hard time, and fairly severe emotional and social problems. As she dug through her past, she started realizing that her mom was a really horrible person, and that it corrupted any sense of a normal relationship or social skill she may have developed.
So, now she's aware of it, and it's not an excuse, but it is a reason. She's dealing with it the best she can, but this isn't one of those things where you can just say, "get over it, already" and it goes away.
The difference being that she's dealing with it, rather than waving it like a "I get to be a useless human because" flag... I think that's the point Khara was trying to make, there.
Quote from: Khara on April 20, 2011, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 20, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
Yes, to a point. I have a friend who is going through therapy because she was having a really hard time, and fairly severe emotional and social problems. As she dug through her past, she started realizing that her mom was a really horrible person, and that it corrupted any sense of a normal relationship or social skill she may have developed.
So, now she's aware of it, and it's not an excuse, but it is a reason. She's dealing with it the best she can, but this isn't one of those things where you can just say, "get over it, already" and it goes away.
There are exceptions to everything. I mean is there one single topic that there is never an exception(s) too? I was speaking in general terms....
Which I'm pretty sure you knew already...... :|
Wasn't meant to be a criticism regarding your parenting.
Consider that a general response to anyone who says, "childhood sucks - get over it."
Yes, it does. But sometimes, it's harder than that.
There's a big difference in saying, "My childhood sucked, so I'm entitled to do nothing the rest of my life but bitch."
and saying, "My childhood sucked, but you know what? I'm going to do anything within my power as an adult to work through this damage and make it right."
I'd like to call it bipedalism.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 20, 2011, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Khara on April 20, 2011, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on April 20, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
Yes, to a point. I have a friend who is going through therapy because she was having a really hard time, and fairly severe emotional and social problems. As she dug through her past, she started realizing that her mom was a really horrible person, and that it corrupted any sense of a normal relationship or social skill she may have developed.
So, now she's aware of it, and it's not an excuse, but it is a reason. She's dealing with it the best she can, but this isn't one of those things where you can just say, "get over it, already" and it goes away.
There are exceptions to everything. I mean is there one single topic that there is never an exception(s) too? I was speaking in general terms....
Which I'm pretty sure you knew already...... :|
Wasn't meant to be a criticism regarding your parenting.
Consider that a general response to anyone who says, "childhood sucks - get over it."
Yes, it does. But sometimes, it's harder than that.
Well I never thought about it being a criticism to my parenting, now I'm just.... so yeah.
And I wasn't saying "childhood sucks - get over it". I was saying that at some point as an adult you have to take responsibility for your own actions, you cannot spend you entire life blaming you actions or lack there of on your childhood.
I never said anything that I see that you can construe as "childhood sucks - get over it" More along the lines of nobody's childhood is perfect, we all have our degrees of terrible. Move the fuck on from it.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on April 20, 2011, 07:15:12 PM
There's a big difference in saying, "My childhood sucked, so I'm entitled to do nothing the rest of my life but bitch."
and saying, "My childhood sucked, but you know what? I'm going to do anything within my power as an adult to work through this damage and make it right."
I'd like to call it bipedalism.
:mittens:
Quote from: Sigmatic on April 14, 2011, 04:54:56 PM
I never had a curfew. My mom's approach to parenting was the "off leash" method. No idea how I turned out so in touch and responsible.
ETA: Well no, I know how. If you've ever heard about kids who were abandoned and raised by wolves, I was raised by books. It was funny as hell when I saw Megamind, because I used to mispronounce big words I'd never heard out loud all the time. I used to think it was "bed raggled" instead of bedraggled.
I still have words that I know only by sight for exactly this reason.
I never had a real hard curfew growing up, as long as I told my parents where I was. From 10-11 onwards I lived in a small enough town that it didn't really matter- we didn't even have a bar or liquor store until after I had left for school. I also never really had set times devoted to studying or accomplishing most tasks, so I basically had to learn time management myself. My parents were, in general, pretty hands off. I went to a boarding school at 16, so I got used to life in dorms away from the folks and dealing with roommates before going off to college, and I think the combination of these has helped me adjust better than many peers to life outside my parents' house.