http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/faster-than-light-measurement-shocks-physicists/2011/09/23/gIQAkIPvqK_video.html
QuoteScientists at the CERN research institute near Geneva claim to have accelerated subatomic neutrino particles faster than the speed of light. (Sept. 23)
(http://i53.tinypic.com/3163hg4.jpg)
Part of me thinks that this will all end up being another "cold fusion". But another part of me wants Tesla to be a time traveler made out of neutrinos.
:spittake:
(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/fnord.gif)
Oh yeah, and pretty much everything we know about anything in physics is proven wrong with this...
BUT TIME TRAVEL.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/biology_evolution/article6879293.ece
QuoteExplosions, scientists arrested for alleged terrorism, mysterious breakdowns — recently Cern’s Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has begun to look like the world’s most ill-fated experiment.
Is it really nothing more than bad luck or is there something weirder at work? Such speculation generally belongs to the lunatic fringe, but serious scientists have begun to suggest that the frequency of Cern’s accidents and problems is far more than a coincidence.
The LHC, they suggest, may be sabotaging itself from the future — twisting time to generate a series of scientific setbacks that will prevent the machine fulfilling its destiny.
At first sight, this theory fits comfortably into the crackpot tradition linking the start-up of the LHC with terrible disasters. The best known is that the £3 billion particle accelerator might trigger a black hole capable of swallowing the Earth when it gets going. Scientists enjoy laughing at this one.
This time, however, their ridicule has been rather muted — because the time travel idea has come from two distinguished physicists who have backed it with rigorous mathematics.
What Holger Bech Nielsen, of the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, and Masao Ninomiya of the Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics in Kyoto, are suggesting is that the Higgs boson, the particle that physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be “abhorrent to nature”.
What does that mean? According to Nielsen, it means that the creation of the boson at some point in the future would then ripple backwards through time to put a stop to whatever it was that had created it in the first place.
This, says Nielsen, could explain why the LHC has been hit by mishaps ranging from an explosion during construction to a second big bang that followed its start-up. Whether the recent arrest of a leading physicist for alleged links with Al-Qaeda also counts is uncertain.
Prepare for unforeseen consequences.
at the risk of repost--------
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/neutrinos.png)
Quote from: Cramulus on September 28, 2011, 08:40:17 PM
at the risk of repost--------
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/neutrinos.png)
Im aware that this is probably being blown completely out of proportion, I just find it very amusing.
SCIENCE INVENTS MACHINE WHICH TRAVELS BACK IN TIME TO INTERFERE WITH ITSELF.
//
:nigel:
:fap:
//
:nigel:
Haha, so we finally make a machine that can behave like a god and it goes and kills itself.
From my understanding of why the time related effects of very high speeds occur (which, admittedly, is non-academic; derived mostly from reading things like The Universe In A Nutshell and other non-academic physics books (and also encyclopedia articles, educational television, and Richard Feynman's autobiography) ) it seems like the time reversal effect associated with speeds greater than c should only occur relative to certain observers, specifically those viewpoints that the superluminal object is approaching (who would see it appear as it passes them, and then recede towards where it came from), though, again, I haven't worked out any relevant math on the subject or anything.
Besides time reversal in all refrence frames wouldn't really be exciting anyway; That would just be essentially equivalent (perhaps completely identical) to antimatter.
The reverse-time-ripple effect is, in fact, a failsafe put in place by beings with a vested interest in the continued existence of the Universe as it is now. So long as this obstacle remains unsurmounted, the veil between us and the Impossible remains intact.
Once it is finally tricked into existing, however, the truth of the Elder Gods shall be revealed in the split instant before everything is consumed in the inconceivable vastness of That Which Cannot Be.
The Higgs-Boson, HP Lovecraft Edition
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on September 24, 2011, 07:07:38 PM
(http://i53.tinypic.com/3163hg4.jpg)
Part of me thinks that this will all end up being another "cold fusion". But another part of me wants Tesla to be a time traveler made out of neutrinos.
Before anyone gets confused, neutrinos are something
completely different than neutrons.
Neutrinos are super tiny (nearly?) massless particles that fly through matter like it's not there. They're doing it right now, buzzing through you.
Neutrons are also very tiny, being sub-atomic and all, but much bigger than neutrinos. They have mass and they can often be found sitting inside atomic nuclei, chilling and being neutral as fuck. Generally laid back but if you put too much of them together and squeeze them real hard, they'll form a neutron star and beam gamma radiation at you. This can be hazardous to your health. D/N/T.
I have just been inspired to get into science and physics. Thanks, Time-Travelling Tesla!
But for serious, I'm spazzing out over the possibility, as remote as it may be, of IRL space/time bending.
Also, this is so much weirder than science fiction, and the whole thing people are for serious over. HOW CAN ONE NOT GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS???
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:18:52 PM
I have just been inspired to get into science and physics. Thanks, Time-Travelling Tesla!
But for serious, I'm spazzing out over the possibility, as remote as it may be, of IRL space/time bending.
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:20:35 PM
Also, this is so much weirder than science fiction, and the whole thing people are for serious over. HOW CAN ONE NOT GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS???
About what?
About scientists having not quite figured out how they got inaccuracies in their measurements?
How the LHC was likened to a new world wonder like an internationally built and sponsored version of the Great Pyramids, and so far has proven to be about exactly as useful? Except the LHC is underground so you don't even get scenic pics of big looming triangles on the horizon.
LHC Scientist 1: "HEY GUYS it's been a while since, um well, actually forever, since the LHC produced any meaningful result, we need some positive PR soon"
LHC Scientist 2: "OH I KNOW let's take the results of this faulty experiment where the data indicates these particles move faster than the speed of light!"
LHC Scientist 1: "GREAT IDEA people will totally believe we can break the fundamental laws of the universe because the LHC is a multi zillion dollar mega project"
Scientist 1: "no honest, the brick fell upwards I checked all my readings"
Scientist 2: "that's kind of hard to believe, did you repeat the experiment?"
Scientist 1: "no I can't because I used a multi zillion dollar mega device to perform it and it will be months before I get another time slot, given that I can secure funding"
Scientist 2: "I know, let's inform the media that we broke the laws of physics"
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:18:52 PM
I have just been inspired to get into science and physics. Thanks, Time-Travelling Tesla!
But for serious, I'm spazzing out over the possibility, as remote as it may be, of IRL space/time bending.
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:20:35 PM
Also, this is so much weirder than science fiction, and the whole thing people are for serious over. HOW CAN ONE NOT GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS???
who cares bout science. some man what wer a woman isdancing with women on the tgeevee box. i am to busy being morally outrged.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on September 29, 2011, 04:40:14 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:20:35 PM
Also, this is so much weirder than science fiction, and the whole thing people are for serious over. HOW CAN ONE NOT GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS???
who cares bout science. some man what wer a woman isdancing with women on the tgeevee box. i am to busy being morally outrged.
:lol:
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:18:52 PM
I have just been inspired to get into science and physics. Thanks, Time-Travelling Tesla!
But for serious, I'm spazzing out over the possibility, as remote as it may be, of IRL space/time bending.
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
You'd probably really enjoy his biography: http://www.amazon.com/Tesla-Man-Time-Margaret-Cheney/dp/0743215362/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1317312603&sr=8-4
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
I can see that, yeah.
Quote from: Nigel on September 29, 2011, 05:10:34 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:18:52 PM
I have just been inspired to get into science and physics. Thanks, Time-Travelling Tesla!
But for serious, I'm spazzing out over the possibility, as remote as it may be, of IRL space/time bending.
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
You'd probably really enjoy his biography: http://www.amazon.com/Tesla-Man-Time-Margaret-Cheney/dp/0743215362/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1317312603&sr=8-4
While I'm sure I would enojy it, I was talking more about the dude being utterly smashed, but keeping on with it A) because whoever was there kept pushing him onward, and B) it was, in fact, for SCIENCE!
Quote from: Cain on September 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
Oh wow, that makes complete sense. Lovecraft must have known about Tesla's work in his lifetime.
Quote from: Cainad on September 29, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
Oh wow, that makes complete sense. Lovecraft must have known about Tesla's work in his lifetime.
Tesla was kind of a Celebrity in his day. He used to light bulbs in his hands by running electric currents through his body at lectures. He also showered himself with massive showers of lightening.
It doesnt surprise me at all that he freaked Lovecraft out enough to inspire a character.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on September 30, 2011, 01:03:26 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 29, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
Oh wow, that makes complete sense. Lovecraft must have known about Tesla's work in his lifetime.
Tesla was kind of a Celebrity in his day. He used to light bulbs in his hands by running electric currents through his body at lectures.
The really impressive thing about was that he would light up bulbs that weren't physically connected to a battery or generator, he discovered a way to transmit electricity wirelessly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardenclyffe_Tower), a technology that is just now being rediscovered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiTricity)
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on September 30, 2011, 01:03:26 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 29, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
Oh wow, that makes complete sense. Lovecraft must have known about Tesla's work in his lifetime.
Tesla was kind of a Celebrity in his day. He used to light bulbs in his hands by running electric currents through his body at lectures. He also showered himself with massive showers of lightening.
It doesnt surprise me at all that he freaked Lovecraft out enough to inspire a character.
When you consider this, you can see the resemblance:
QuoteHe spoke much of the sciences - of electricity and psychology - and gave exhibitions of power which sent his spectators away speechless, yet which swelled his fame to exceeding magnitude.
The name came to Lovecraft in a dream, he had a letter from his friend saying:
QuoteDon't fail to see Nyarlathotep if he comes to Providence. He is horrible — horrible beyond anything you can imagine — but wonderful. He haunts one for hours afterward. I am still shuddering at what he showed.
Lovecraft commented:
QuoteI had never heard the name NYARLATHOTEP before, but seemed to understand the allusion. Nyarlathotep was a kind of itinerant showman or lecturer who held forth in public halls and aroused widespread fear and discussion with his exhibitions. These exhibitions consisted of two parts — first, a horrible — possibly prophetic — cinema reel; and later some extraordinary experiments with scientific and electrical apparatus. As I received the letter, I seemed to recall that Nyarlathotep was already in Providence.... I seemed to remember that persons had whispered to me in awe of his horrors, and warned me not to go near him. But Loveman's dream letter decided me.... As I left the house I saw throngs of men plodding through the night, all whispering affrightedly and bound in one direction. I fell in with them, afraid yet eager to see and hear the great, the obscure, the unutterable Nyarlathotep
Quote from: Cain on September 30, 2011, 11:13:55 AM
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on September 30, 2011, 01:03:26 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 29, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Telsa = the inspiration for Nylarathotep (maybe)
Oh wow, that makes complete sense. Lovecraft must have known about Tesla's work in his lifetime.
Tesla was kind of a Celebrity in his day. He used to light bulbs in his hands by running electric currents through his body at lectures. He also showered himself with massive showers of lightening.
It doesnt surprise me at all that he freaked Lovecraft out enough to inspire a character.
When you consider this, you can see the resemblance:
QuoteHe spoke much of the sciences - of electricity and psychology - and gave exhibitions of power which sent his spectators away speechless, yet which swelled his fame to exceeding magnitude.
The name came to Lovecraft in a dream, he had a letter from his friend saying:
QuoteDon't fail to see Nyarlathotep if he comes to Providence. He is horrible — horrible beyond anything you can imagine — but wonderful. He haunts one for hours afterward. I am still shuddering at what he showed.
Lovecraft commented:
QuoteI had never heard the name NYARLATHOTEP before, but seemed to understand the allusion. Nyarlathotep was a kind of itinerant showman or lecturer who held forth in public halls and aroused widespread fear and discussion with his exhibitions. These exhibitions consisted of two parts — first, a horrible — possibly prophetic — cinema reel; and later some extraordinary experiments with scientific and electrical apparatus. As I received the letter, I seemed to recall that Nyarlathotep was already in Providence.... I seemed to remember that persons had whispered to me in awe of his horrors, and warned me not to go near him. But Loveman's dream letter decided me.... As I left the house I saw throngs of men plodding through the night, all whispering affrightedly and bound in one direction. I fell in with them, afraid yet eager to see and hear the great, the obscure, the unutterable Nyarlathotep
That's amazing.
It's a short story, shorter than most rants posted here :) And it's out of copyright, so check it:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep
Quote from: Science me, babby on September 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
If you're getting this excited about Tesla, just wait. You'll come to realize that the admiration you have for Tesla is in direct inverse proportion to how pissed off you'll be at Thomas Edison.
Quote from: Triple Zero on September 29, 2011, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: Jenkem and SPACE/TIME on September 29, 2011, 03:20:35 PM
Also, this is so much weirder than science fiction, and the whole thing people are for serious over. HOW CAN ONE NOT GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS???
About what?
About scientists having not quite figured out how they got inaccuracies in their measurements?
How the LHC was likened to a new world wonder like an internationally built and sponsored version of the Great Pyramids, and so far has proven to be about exactly as useful? Except the LHC is underground so you don't even get scenic pics of big looming triangles on the horizon.
LHC Scientist 1: "HEY GUYS it's been a while since, um well, actually forever, since the LHC produced any meaningful result, we need some positive PR soon"
LHC Scientist 2: "OH I KNOW let's take the results of this faulty experiment where the data indicates these particles move faster than the speed of light!"
LHC Scientist 1: "GREAT IDEA people will totally believe we can break the fundamental laws of the universe because the LHC is a multi zillion dollar mega project"
Scientist 1: "no honest, the brick fell upwards I checked all my readings"
Scientist 2: "that's kind of hard to believe, did you repeat the experiment?"
Scientist 1: "no I can't because I used a multi zillion dollar mega device to perform it and it will be months before I get another time slot, given that I can secure funding"
Scientist 2: "I know, let's inform the media that we broke the laws of physics"
Not broke, disproved.
But yeah, you're right its probably just a faulty detector or timer or something.
And if it isn't, they probably haven't shown anything other than the fact that a slight tweak is needed to the recorded value of
c
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 01:59:56 PM
Quote from: Science me, babby on September 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
If you're getting this excited about Tesla, just wait. You'll come to realize that the admiration you have for Tesla is in direct inverse proportion to how pissed off you'll be at Thomas Edison.
Not necessarily. In addition to being a plagarist, Edison also tortured animals, so you might hate him more than you like tesla.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 03, 2011, 04:17:24 PM
Not broke, disproved.
But yeah, you're right its probably just a faulty detector or timer or something.
And if it isn't, they probably haven't shown anything other than the fact that a slight tweak is needed to the recorded value of c
"Broke" and "disproved" mean the same thing in my example.
You don't seem to understand. They
won't "slightly tweak" the recorded value of c.
Sure they need to get to the bottom of this, but if you're even seriously considering they might have to change the laws of physics because of this, or a fundamental constant of the universe, you've got your probabilities wrong.
A psychology experiment seems to suggest precognition. Faulty experiment or possible actual supernatural precognition? Will the world media go wild about this or dismiss it and think "probably a faulty experiment" and wait until someone comes with solid evidence.
Math paper claims to prove
P=NP. If true, this would revolutionize EVERYTHING. Faulty proof? We don't know because nobody understands the proof and nobody can check it for themselves. Most average mathematicians (rightly) assume there's probably a mistake because, well, it would revolutionize everything. Media ignores it.
Medical research seems to indicate a man can heal people from a distance with his mind. Bad statistics? Wrong control group? Or is it perhaps the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius and we are at the verge of a paradigm shifting breakthrough into a new era of light medicine? Fortean Times thinks so. Other media ignores it.
A multi zillion dollar particle accelerator, 17 miles large, built over the course of several decades as a project between several nations does an experiment that seems to indicate some particles went slightly faster than the speed of light as we know it. Nobody except the original researchers actually have any clue what the experiment is about, or what is going on. The researchers themselves assume their equipment is faulty. Media goes WILD and proceeds to conflate neutrons and neutrinos with their best efforts.
So yeah, faulty equipment or time-travel? :lulz:
Not to mention, "broke" doesn't even convey what it would mean if c was "a little bit faster".
Literally --- LITERALLY --- LITERALLY every formula, calculation, and therory since Maxwell's paper in 1862 would be wrong. It would invalidate the reasoning behind the last 150 years of physics. All the experimental results that clearly pointed to c being 299,792,458 m/s would be invalid.
Since our current formulas seem to model some parts the universe quite well, we would need massive evidence against it.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 03, 2011, 04:18:47 PM
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 01:59:56 PM
Quote from: Science me, babby on September 29, 2011, 04:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 29, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
here's a really good introduction to Tesla's genius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gOR91oentQ
This guy is my new hero. :aaa:
If you're getting this excited about Tesla, just wait. You'll come to realize that the admiration you have for Tesla is in direct inverse proportion to how pissed off you'll be at Thomas Edison.
Not necessarily. In addition to being a plagarist, Edison also tortured animals, so you might hate him more than you like tesla.
Yeah, I was kind of horrified at that part, and by kind of horrified I mean I was frothing at the mouth with rage and about to puke from disgust. :sad:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2011, 05:34:19 PM
Not to mention, "broke" doesn't even convey what it would mean if c was "a little bit faster".
Literally --- LITERALLY --- LITERALLY every formula, calculation, and therory since Maxwell's paper in 1862 would be wrong. It would invalidate the reasoning behind the last 150 years of physics. All the experimental results that clearly pointed to c being 299,792,458 m/s would be invalid.
Since our current formulas seem to model some parts the universe quite well, we would need massive evidence against it.
It
would be hilarious, though.
That it would.
(
edit: woowwww better make sure to get that quote in there to see whaat I'm replying to)
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2011, 05:34:19 PM
Literally --- LITERALLY --- LITERALLY every formula, calculation, and therory since Maxwell's paper in 1862 would be wrong. It would invalidate the reasoning behind the last 150 years of physics. All the experimental results that clearly pointed to c being 299,792,458 m/s would be invalid.
The thing is that many of those experiments attempted to directly measure the value of
c, without attempting to correct for the refractive index of vacuum energy. It has been hypothesized by some scientists that light traveling between two casimir plates would move at a slightly higher velocity, something known as the "Scharnhorst effect", this recent experiment may have provided some indirect experimental proof for that hypothesis.
I think some people give the consistencies of space and time too much credit. The current system of physics, and the knowledge that we have about the particles that make up the universe on both a cosmic and nuclear scale, is an irreconcilable mess. The community of scientists are split on these subjects and can't seem to come to an agreement about how to mold all of these things into a single unified theory. Maybe things are circumstantial, with the rules bending according to other rules. Like, "Light goes this speed unless it goes this other speed in accordance to this other previously unproven influence".
Physicists in particular tend to keep their mouths shut unless they really have a reason to open them. In a field built on concrete laws, presenting any data that seems to shatter preconceptions are normally delivered with an apologetic expression. After all, if it is a mistake and they present it as fact, their reputations are in the shitter.
So they sit at monitors all day hoping something would happen that changes things in a way that advances understanding, so that physicists can finally come to an agreement on things like dark matter vs. modified newtonian dynamics, and then when something does happen they hope they can prove it's just a mistake for fear of making their colleagues really, really uncomfortable or inciting ridicule if proven a mistake after-the-fact. And if they can't, but can't quite prove it's a fact either, they have to present the data with an air of "sorry for mucking things up further, lads, but here you go..."
Physics is a touchy field to mess with, but the fact is that's the only way we will be able to reconcile all the laws, even not taking into account this speed of light fiasco. It's like having a puzzle laid in front of you but we only have half the pieces and a vague idea of how they fit together, let alone what fills the gaps we don't have. Math is a miraculous tool, but that's only half the battle. Something would have to happen to give us more pieces, or someone would have to look at what we have in a new, unique perspective, if we are going to fit it all together. Einstein started out not as a master mathematician but as a dude with crazy-scientific daydreams. We need another one of those, I think.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 03, 2011, 06:39:19 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2011, 05:34:19 PM
Not to mention, "broke" doesn't even convey what it would mean if c was "a little bit faster".
Literally --- LITERALLY --- LITERALLY every formula, calculation, and therory since Maxwell's paper in 1862 would be wrong. It would invalidate the reasoning behind the last 150 years of physics. All the experimental results that clearly pointed to c being 299,792,458 m/s would be invalid.
Since our current formulas seem to model some parts the universe quite well, we would need massive evidence against it.
It would be hilarious, though.
That it would.
(edit: woowwww better make sure to get that quote in there to see whaat I'm replying to)
:lulz: Whoops.
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 07:48:14 PM
I think some people give the consistencies of space and time too much credit. The current system of physics, and the knowledge that we have about the particles that make up the universe on both a cosmic and nuclear scale, is an irreconcilable mess. The community of scientists are split on these subjects and can't seem to come to an agreement about how to mold all of these things into a single unified theory.
"We don't know everything, therefore everything we know is wrong."
Sorry, that gets an
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
But .. Casimir plates are supposed to be just a few micrometers apart, this experiment was over several miles, so how could it provide "indirect experimental proof" for the former? I mean, how are they even related? And why with this experiment and not with all the many other ones before it?
Also, you wanna bet $200 that it won't pan out (http://xkcd.com/955/)? :)
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 07:48:14 PMSo they sit at monitors all day hoping something would happen that changes things in a way that advances understanding
You actually have no idea how physicists do their work, do you?
Anyway, the examples you name, that physicists aren't entirely in agreement about .. the Grand Unified Theory and Dark Matter, how do
those relate to this particular experiment?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 03, 2011, 08:07:07 PM
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 07:48:14 PM
I think some people give the consistencies of space and time too much credit. The current system of physics, and the knowledge that we have about the particles that make up the universe on both a cosmic and nuclear scale, is an irreconcilable mess. The community of scientists are split on these subjects and can't seem to come to an agreement about how to mold all of these things into a single unified theory.
"We don't know everything, therefore everything we know is wrong."
Sorry, that gets an
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
But they MUST be wrong. They stare at monitors all day for crying out loud!
Look at Memy. Does
he stare at a monitor all day long? Does he? Well? And is he wrong??
I thought so.
Quantum fucking Erat Demonstrantum.
Trip, you just don't get it.
If you throw some totally unrelated buzzwords into a rant about physics, you gain credibility.
Duh.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 03, 2011, 08:35:48 PM
Quantum fucking Erat Demonstrantum.
"I've demonstrated it, but you can't look"?
:lulz:
So here is an interview with a member of the OPERA collaboration who did
not sign the preprint that caused the media furore:
http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2011/10/faz-interview-with-german-member-of.html
All of it is relevant, but this part in particular:
QuoteHagner also says that the statistical analysis (matching the proton spectrum with that of the neutrinos) should have been redone by different techniques and that this is currently under way. She further points out that the results are only from one of two detection methods that OPERA has, the scintillation-tracker. Another detector, the spectrometer, should yield an independent measurement that could be compared to the first, but that would take about 2 months.
Quote from: Igor on October 03, 2011, 08:44:47 PMQuoteHagner also says that the statistical analysis (matching the proton spectrum with that of the neutrinos) should have been redone by different techniques and that this is currently under way. She further points out that the results are only from one of two detection methods that OPERA has, the scintillation-tracker. Another detector, the spectrometer, should yield an independent measurement that could be compared to the first, but that would take about 2 months.
TWO MONTHS???
Well that seals it then, does it?
If the measurement would pan out to be FTL, we'd have time-travel and we wouldn't have to wait two months.
Quod Eris Demonstrantum!
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 07:48:14 PM
The current system of physics, and the knowledge that we have about the particles that make up the universe on both a cosmic and nuclear scale, is an irreconcilable mess.
I'm sure you meant to say, "intricately connected islands of knowledge in a vast sea of ignorance."
Of course.
Of course.
:punchballs:
An interesting point that I read in Discover's Bad Astronomy (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/09/22/faster-than-light-travel-discovered-slow-down-folks/) section: If neutrinos travelled faster than light speed then we would have detected them well before the photons from distant supernovae by now.
Anyway, I hardly understand much of this, and I'm sure there's tonnes of nuance, so I'm sitting this out.
Seems they found the cause of the measuring error: differences in Earth's gravitational pull at either endpoint.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111005/full/news.2011.575.html
SO YOU WERE SAYING, FASTER THAN LIGHT SPAGS??
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 09, 2011, 04:36:27 PM
Seems they found the cause of the measuring error: differences in Earth's gravitational pull at either endpoint.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111005/full/news.2011.575.html
SO YOU WERE SAYING, FASTER THAN LIGHT SPAGS??
:sad:
Quote from: memy on October 03, 2011, 07:48:14 PM
I think some people give the consistencies of space and time too much credit. The current system of physics, and the knowledge that we have about the particles that make up the universe on both a cosmic and nuclear scale, is an irreconcilable mess. The community of scientists are split on these subjects and can't seem to come to an agreement about how to mold all of these things into a single unified theory. Maybe things are circumstantial, with the rules bending according to other rules. Like, "Light goes this speed unless it goes this other speed in accordance to this other previously unproven influence".
Physicists in particular tend to keep their mouths shut unless they really have a reason to open them. In a field built on concrete laws, presenting any data that seems to shatter preconceptions are normally delivered with an apologetic expression. After all, if it is a mistake and they present it as fact, their reputations are in the shitter.
So they sit at monitors all day hoping something would happen that changes things in a way that advances understanding, so that physicists can finally come to an agreement on things like dark matter vs. modified newtonian dynamics, and then when something does happen they hope they can prove it's just a mistake for fear of making their colleagues really, really uncomfortable or inciting ridicule if proven a mistake after-the-fact. And if they can't, but can't quite prove it's a fact either, they have to present the data with an air of "sorry for mucking things up further, lads, but here you go..."
Physics is a touchy field to mess with, but the fact is that's the only way we will be able to reconcile all the laws, even not taking into account this speed of light fiasco. It's like having a puzzle laid in front of you but we only have half the pieces and a vague idea of how they fit together, let alone what fills the gaps we don't have. Math is a miraculous tool, but that's only half the battle. Something would have to happen to give us more pieces, or someone would have to look at what we have in a new, unique perspective, if we are going to fit it all together. Einstein started out not as a master mathematician but as a dude with crazy-scientific daydreams. We need another one of those, I think.
I love it when people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about have strong opinions.
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 09, 2011, 04:36:27 PM
Seems they found the cause of the measuring error: differences in Earth's gravitational pull at either endpoint.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111005/full/news.2011.575.html
SO YOU WERE SAYING, FASTER THAN LIGHT SPAGS??
FUCK YEAH.
TRIP PUTS AN END TO THE BULLSHIT.
In the future, people, you might want to consider having an experiment replicated a few times before you run out to sodomize Einstein's corpse.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 09, 2011, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 09, 2011, 04:36:27 PM
Seems they found the cause of the measuring error: differences in Earth's gravitational pull at either endpoint.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111005/full/news.2011.575.html
SO YOU WERE SAYING, FASTER THAN LIGHT SPAGS??
FUCK YEAH.
TRIP PUTS AN END TO THE BULLSHIT.
In the future, people, you might want to consider having an experiment replicated a few times before you run out to sodomize Einstein's corpse.
BUT HE WAS BEGGING FOR IT!!!!!!!
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
I BELIEVE I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND KAI WHEN I SAY UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
They got another explanation that is even better, it seems:
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27260/
DAAMN YOU SCIENCE!! :argh!:
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/neutrino_experiment_affirms_fa.html
Nature editors commented that these damn Neutrinos in their fast cars should stay the fuck away from their wimminz.
Quote from: Triple Zero on November 18, 2011, 01:48:55 PM
DAAMN YOU SCIENCE!! :argh!:
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/neutrino_experiment_affirms_fa.html
Nature editors commented that these damn Neutrinos in their fast cars should stay the fuck away from their wimminz.
:lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 10, 2011, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
I BELIEVE I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND KAI WHEN I SAY UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
Yes.
Also, Relativity is one of the best supported physical theories. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light. A stray outlier will not convince me otherwise. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Quote from: 'Kai' ZLB, M.S. on November 20, 2011, 03:51:24 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on October 10, 2011, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 10, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!
I BELIEVE I SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND KAI WHEN I SAY UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
Yes.
Also, Relativity is one of the best supported physical theories. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light. A stray outlier will not convince me otherwise. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
QM and special relativity has large self acknowledged holes. Gravity being the largest problem, trying to renormalise gravity into equations gives rise to infinities (In mass, speed or momentum), at relativistic speeds on quantum scales some very weird shit happens (that we can account for).
I would be pleased if neutrino's do go faster then the speed of light because it could shed more light on both the nature of the photon and the gravitational force.
Three places confirming that it arrived faster than is not a confirmation (though it is more sound than the innital fluke), however this needs to be repeated over a much larger distance with more accurate timing methods to reduce timing error and increase the time between emission and detection, if indeed it is going faster then the speed of light a greater distance will make those numbers far clearer.
I knew it!
Tesla is infact the 13th timelord!
necromancer