To be honest, I couldnt care less about comics, I bring this up rather for the amusement of the arguments that arose around the given issue... Its like Rhetorics 101 if you ask me!
The important points is how this person brings up important facts that debunk general opposition stance which is hypocritical and uninformed, but then proceeds to make some very strange argumentative square dancing which will leave nobody satisfied.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q)
The spiderwoman cover was from a EROTIC art book.
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 15, 2014, 10:36:31 PM
The spiderwoman cover was from a EROTIC art book.
:lulz: I didn't know that. Score one for the interwebs!
Also Spiderman was exposing his bulge for years. No one bats a eye. Hello you can run a credit card through his butt cheeks.
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women, by saying that anyone who notices that is warped and has an unhealthy attitude towards sex, and why don't you just come join us in the utopian post-gender society we're apparently living in.
as for the image, I still dont see the issue. Spider woman is climbing up the side of a building like a spider. That's just kinda what that looks like, spiderman has been crawling around in that same pose for decades.
The Internet has decided that 2014 is the official year of blowhards at every extreme end of every obscure argument bellowing past each other in a fiery attempt to finally eradicate anyone standing between them in the center. The Genocide of Moderation. Of course, 2014 is no different from any other year in that regard, but I am now a creature of the Social Network, and I cannot remember that far back anymore.
I would "like" Vex's comment, only PD.com does not give me full social media web 3.0 functionality :cry:
The female audience for comic books is 47%?
Really?
Really?
In vaugely related news, I seem to recall something about Marvel switching genders around on a few of their bigger names. So it's actually increasingly likely you'll see Thor and co waving their spandex arse at you soon. It's a kind of equality, I guess.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 16, 2014, 07:45:09 AM
The female audience for comic books is 47%?
Really?
Really?
In vaugely related news, I seem to recall something about Marvel switching genders around on a few of their bigger names. So it's actually increasingly likely you'll see Thor and co waving their spandex arse at you soon. It's a kind of equality, I guess.
Thor Girl is a real thing. There's a prophecy that Odin has hidden away from the Asgardians that a woman will usher in the New Asgard. Also Thor does something Anti-heroic that pisses off the hammer (moral spag), and the the hammer flys off to Thor Girl. Thor now will wields his old childhood axe.
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 16, 2014, 07:52:57 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 16, 2014, 07:45:09 AM
The female audience for comic books is 47%?
Really?
Really?
In vaugely related news, I seem to recall something about Marvel switching genders around on a few of their bigger names. So it's actually increasingly likely you'll see Thor and co waving their spandex arse at you soon. It's a kind of equality, I guess.
Thor Girl is a real thing. There's a prophecy that Odin has hidden away from the Asgardians that a woman will usher in the New Asgard. Also Thor does something Anti-heroic that pisses off the hammer (moral spag), and the the hammer flys off to Thor Girl. Thor now will wields his old childhood axe.
I mean, that's why we performed Babylon working, to prepare the American audience. :lulz:
It was Milo Manera
His art is gorgeous, but I don't think he has ever done anything other than erotica, Looking at this and his Scarlett Witch cover, they are really good.
NWS:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=milo+manara&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch
If this was an independent comic it would have been celebrated.
Its just because of marvels history of sexualising female characters, while sex in male driven comics is all but absent to the point of absurdity.
Marvel should respond with some male variants like the Male swimsuit covers they did a few years back:
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/37584657f4f09c28c039e3ef47c75715/tumblr_meuao2Vasw1r34y4ho1_500.jpg)
Or Get Boris back to draw more in the style of his bishop:
(http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_big/3/3/8/1274484352-16693-141.jpg)
Omitting marriage from superhero comics is part of why they are entrenched in the same boring stories.
Ommiting sex, is worse.
(http://imgur.com/FmE7mJz.jpg)
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 16, 2014, 08:59:06 AM
(http://imgur.com/FmE7mJz.jpg)
I laughed at this the first time I saw it but I think it's pretty mean. Todd McFarlane started the whole creeping spider pose things and the are just as physically impossible, Both it and the knees up
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTONTATAN__VaSznYGOeCKHERyhO35_Hqf2usIUal-AduyYmSul)
Both it and the V-Pose were introduced by him and they are associated with both Spider-woman and man
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7019/159486-61083-todd-mcfarlane.jpg)
This is perfect example of Tumblr tards knit picking.
I also don't like the fact D/C making is making it's heroines more thick/curvy as a generic template. Something about Catwoman having giant tits/giant ass strikes me off. Since Catwoman was always portrayed as being slim/athletic so she can prowl/sneak around into vaults. I figured the slimmer she is the faster she would move/get away. But D/C panders to basement dwellers so fuck it let them fuck socks.
Marvel of the other hand is dropping down barriers introducing new characters, killing off others that aren't interesting anymore.
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 16, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
This is perfect example of Tumblr tards knit picking.
I also don't like the fact D/C making is making it's heroines more thick/curvy as a generic template. Something about Catwoman having giant tits/giant ass strikes me off. Since Catwoman was always portrayed as being slim/athletic so she can prowl/sneak around into vaults. I figured the slimmer she is the faster she would move/get away. But D/C panders to basement dwellers so fuck it let them fuck socks.
Marvel of the other hand is dropping down barriers introducing new characters, killing off others that aren't interesting anymore.
Yeah, well, Superman could still kick your dad's ass.
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 16, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
This is perfect example of Tumblr tards knit picking.
I also don't like the fact D/C making is making it's heroines more thick/curvy as a generic template. Something about Catwoman having giant tits/giant ass strikes me off. Since Catwoman was always portrayed as being slim/athletic so she can prowl/sneak around into vaults. I figured the slimmer she is the faster she would move/get away. But D/C panders to basement dwellers so fuck it let them fuck socks.
Marvel of the other hand is dropping down barriers introducing new characters, killing off others that aren't interesting anymore.
Exactly, now dont get me wrong they are both stirring a stagnant pot, but marvel have acknowledged they have an issue with both their portrayal of women so they have attempted to fix it:
Kelly Sue DeConnick writes a terrific Captain Marvel.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
And even worse than that, some think that seeing the dehumanizing aspects is Nazi-feminist behavior that is indecent in regular people. Frustrating.
Quote from: Faust on September 16, 2014, 08:40:05 AM
It was Milo Manera
His art is gorgeous, but I don't think he has ever done anything other than erotica, Looking at this and his Scarlett Witch cover, they are really good.
...
Yea, that stuff was great. Actually decent syfi too. Droona could have been my first love.
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/20a5ca4dd8bebeca530ccbf502740b67/tumblr_nasrulFYl21r34y4ho1_500.png)
Quote from: Trivial on September 17, 2014, 01:07:47 AM
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/20a5ca4dd8bebeca530ccbf502740b67/tumblr_nasrulFYl21r34y4ho1_500.png)
:lulz: right-on, once again.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
If they wanted to do this they should balance it by having someone like Kevin Wada do the male issues.
This is the most people have talked about Spider Woman in decades.
Quote from: Hoopla on September 17, 2014, 01:09:31 PM
This is the most people have talked about Spider Woman in decades.
yknow, if the comic industry were better at PR than it is, i'd suspect that might've been the plan all along
Quote from: V3X on September 16, 2014, 07:23:01 PM
Yeah, well, Superman could still kick your dad's ass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjuPbCShBw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjuPbCShBw)
You'd never see She-Hulk in that position. Just saying.
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 19, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Pop quiz, hotshot: Is this sexualizing or objectifying?
I dunno, but I love it.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2014, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 19, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Pop quiz, hotshot: Is this sexualizing or objectifying?
It's objectifying to all the green gamma-rayed women in the world.
Just kidding it's neither, but then again this isn't TUMBLR.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2014, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 19, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Pop quiz, hotshot: Is this sexualizing or objectifying?
ITS BOTH, YOU CISHET OPPRESSOR!
Quote from: Faust on September 17, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
Why is lack of Female creators a bad thing?
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 19, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 17, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
Why is lack of Female creators a bad thing?
Well, for one they can point out that women turn their necks over their shoulder when looking behind them and do not swivel their waist.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 19, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 17, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
Why is lack of Female creators a bad thing?
Because comic book readers gender is split pretty much 50-50, though the female creators only account for an a tiny set of the creators.
In theory this shouldn't be an issue, a skilled male creator should be able to cater to a male and female audience (and some do). In practice, you get a majority of comics who's target audience is young men.
Quote from: Faust on September 20, 2014, 09:21:43 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 19, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 17, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
Why is lack of Female creators a bad thing?
Because comic book readers gender is split pretty much 50-50, though the female creators only account for an a tiny set of the creators.
In theory this shouldn't be an issue, a skilled male creator should be able to cater to a male and female audience (and some do). In practice, you get a majority of comics who's target audience is young men.
Which its female readers apparently have no problems buying.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 20, 2014, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 20, 2014, 09:21:43 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 19, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 17, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on September 16, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 15, 2014, 11:35:38 PM
i had been avoiding this story in the news, mainly because i honestly didn't see what the problem with it was. I feel like the video makes a few good points, yet towards the end the nerdrage shorts out his frontal lobe and he starts hammering his points like a caveman. Towards the end he charges right past the fact that sexualizing woman is OFTEN used to dehumanize women,
How do you tell the difference though?
And really, this hits on the big thing. The problem isnt sexualization, its the dehumanizing, the objectifying. People like to go after the former because its easy to spot and thanks to our puritan heritage lots of people have a knee-jerk discomfort with it which of course, is completely in the interest of progressiveness and freedom ect when they do it. The later is a lot harder to talk about, a lot harder to condense into 140 characters or memes, and worst of all most people just simply dont care.
You're right, it is the objectification and not the sexualisation that is the issue.
For instance if Milo had written the book as well she would probably fuck her way across new york and no one would bat an eyelid.
But using his cover for what is otherwise supposed to be a superhero comic is using that sexual imagery to sell the story which is unfair to the character.
There is always the argument that marvel never considered it, Milo is a brilliant artist and comic companies often celebrate the work of famous artists these variant covers and that's all it was. However even if this is the case they probably shouldn't be so negligent when they are very much in the spotlight for their lack of female creators, (they have one or two, which is better than none so things are improving).
Why is lack of Female creators a bad thing?
Because comic book readers gender is split pretty much 50-50, though the female creators only account for an a tiny set of the creators.
In theory this shouldn't be an issue, a skilled male creator should be able to cater to a male and female audience (and some do). In practice, you get a majority of comics who's target audience is young men.
Which its female readers apparently have no problems buying.
You hear a lot of complaints, but yes I suppose you are right, if they are buying them, they are supporting that, although conversely if they vote with their wallets, then people can argue women dont read comics.
Also the problem of proportional representation is a secondary trivial one compared to the fact that superhero comics are almost entirely stagnant stale stories. The few that have found ways to explore interesting new things tend to do so though science fiction where the superhero part plays an insignificant role.
Plus, Male creators tend to have more problems accurately portraying female characters than women do. It has to do with both genders having different life experiences than one another. I for one would like to see more female creators in not only comics but tv and film, not just because it'd be more progressive, but also because it'd be nice to hear new stories from a perspective i wouldn't otherwise have. You can only hear so many stories about how the White Male Christian hero saved the day and then got his knob off before you start looking for another narrative.
More female creators, and more women on the editorial staff, means less of these idiot things will get through the entire publishing process without someone going "WTF? GO HOME AND TRY AGAIN."
though, can someone answer the question of how someone, male or female, could do the Spiderman "i'm climing a wall while pantomiming a spider" pose WITHOUT looking like they're sticking their ass in the air?
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 20, 2014, 11:17:57 PM
though, can someone answer the question of how someone, male or female, could do the Spiderman "i'm climing a wall while pantomiming a spider" pose WITHOUT looking like they're sticking their ass in the air?
There's going to be some ass in the air, that's not the problem. There have been a lot of redraws of that cover that show how it could have been done and not look like she's presenting herself and also made of broken bones and bubblegum.
But almost all superheroes, in every comic, in every pose, of every gender, are almost always depicted with unreasonably exaggerated emphasis on their sexy bits, and their bodies in general are drawn as oversexualized caricatures that would never work as real human beings. I thought that was part of the genre. People act like this spiderwoman pose is the first time a comic book has suggested that sex is a human interest (god forbid).
Quote from: V3X on September 21, 2014, 01:34:47 AM
But almost all superheroes, in every comic, in every pose, of every gender, are almost always depicted with unreasonably exaggerated emphasis on their sexy bits, and their bodies in general are drawn as oversexualized caricatures that would never work as real human beings. I thought that was part of the genre. People act like this spiderwoman pose is the first time a comic book has suggested that sex is a human interest (god forbid).
It's been a problem FOREVER. People have been complaining FOREVER. The reason people are mad is because Marvel keeps saying "no guys, I'm sorry, this time I get it" and then they FUCKING DO THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
and I know nobody likes tumblr but hxxp://eschergirls.tumblr.com/ does a really good job of showing why it's a pervasive issue that should get yelled at until it goes away.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 20, 2014, 11:17:57 PM
though, can someone answer the question of how someone, male or female, could do the Spiderman "i'm climing a wall while pantomiming a spider" pose WITHOUT looking like they're sticking their ass in the air?
Th problem isn't the ass in the air. Milo Mirana does ass in the air well. It's that they used an erotica artist to draw the cover on an issue that is otherwise not erotica. For sales.
There's nothing quite like people who don't have a problem telling people with a problem that they don't see the problem. :lol:
Quote from: Your Mom on September 21, 2014, 04:30:21 PM
There's nothing quite like people who don't have a problem telling people with a problem that they don't see the problem. :lol:
In this case it is a bit of a sticky one. The artist does lots of porn, lots of porn with a bit of sci-fi, and some sci-fi . In his porn he can draw as many asses in the air and people wont complain. Someone's not going to read his illustration of Story of O and say; Hang on, THEY'RE OBJECTIFYING HER.
It's very weird that Marvel chose to use him for to market this.
ON TOPIC RANT:
I just had a rude awakening. Superheroes aren't people most of them are hybrids/mutants/semi-divine beings, they're not the average joe making a killing, or the cop with a heart of god working their way to the meat grinder, so these complaints about Superheroes not being PC tend to rub me the wrong way since they're fictional characters for the most part.
LMNO's post earlier of She-Hulk made me question myself : When do you (us) draw the line, and say let neckbeard artists be neckbeard artists?
My complaint was the generic template being used by DC comics. When imagine someone named Catwoman/Catman I imagine someone nimble/petite/light. Same thing as someone named the Tank I expect a large juggernaut kicking houses.
OFF TOPIC RANT:
I'm starting to really fucking hate comics who have these supernatural jackasses pick political spectrum as if it was some sort of political vote If buy MARVEL you support "X DERP".
Maybe it's just me reading Marvel"s "Civil War" series. Where Ironman (RWHN) now feels sad that some middle class white woman's assets have been killed in a AMATEUR Super Hero vs AMATEUR Super Villian Brawl, and proposes all Super Heroes register with the government so the public feels safe and secure because THE CHILDREN!
Captain America (TGGR) says eat a dick something something something Patrick Henry, and the majority sides with Captain America because we love freedom. Ironman enlists "Reformed Super-Villians" (DEA) to shut Captain America and all the those uppity freedom loving superheroes (Nigel's of the world) that they don't know what they want, and all this bloodshed of Super Hero vs Super Hero is WORTH IT IF I SAVES THE HAIR ON ONE WHITE CHILD.
Captain America realizes this can't go on because the one people benefiting from this are SUPER VILLIANS worldwide. So Captain America turns himself in, but tells them they're not arresting Captain America they're arresting Steve Rogers, so Ironman you lose, and freedom lives on.
I've read the main series 3 times already, and I get more ticked off reading this shit
I'm pretty sure Tony Stark being a Republican has been an identifying character trait since the beginning, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Hoopla on September 22, 2014, 02:07:09 AM
I'm pretty sure Tony Stark being a Republican has been an identifying character trait since the beginning, but I could be wrong.
But being an idiot hasnt been. Cable came right out and said that Pro-Reg is the wrong way to go. Theres having a political bias, and then theres actively ignoring the advice of a dude from the future.
POP Quiz who is a bigger Free Market AnCap Tard?
Batman, or The Punisher
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 19, 2014, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2014, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 19, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Pop quiz, hotshot: Is this sexualizing or objectifying?
It's objectifying to all the green gamma-rayed women in the world.
Just kidding it's neither, but then again this isn't TUMBLR.
i would say its sexualizing her in the sense that yes, i'm sure some jerkoff jerked off to those panels once upon a time, but it's not objectifying because that issue was essentially there to tease and undermine that jerkoff in the first place and so the character retains dignity because it is being done for lulz as well as subvert a trope of females being posed just to give their readers something to look at
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 22, 2014, 03:11:56 AM
Quote from: Triggered word /b/ear on September 19, 2014, 07:41:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 19, 2014, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on September 19, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
well yea, but she-Hulks thing isn't crawling up buildings in a spider-like manner. One of her things however, was jump roping naked for an entire issue once.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr1BHqNFD2L3LM9oxZMR6kOioiMSloUYHv9U1BTGzWNTUBtv0a)
Pop quiz, hotshot: Is this sexualizing or objectifying?
It's objectifying to all the green gamma-rayed women in the world.
Just kidding it's neither, but then again this isn't TUMBLR.
i would say its sexualizing her in the sense that yes, i'm sure some jerkoff jerked off to those panels once upon a time, but it's not objectifying because that issue was essentially there to tease and undermine that jerkoff in the first place and so the character retains dignity because it is being done for lulz as well as subvert a trope of females being posed just to give their readers something to look at
WHAT KIND OF SICK FUCK DOESN'T FAP TO PONIES?!!?!??!
Quote from: Faust on September 21, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
Quote from: Your Mom on September 21, 2014, 04:30:21 PM
There's nothing quite like people who don't have a problem telling people with a problem that they don't see the problem. :lol:
In this case it is a bit of a sticky one. The artist does lots of porn, lots of porn with a bit of sci-fi, and some sci-fi . In his porn he can draw as many asses in the air and people wont complain. Someone's not going to read his illustration of Story of O and say; Hang on, THEY'RE OBJECTIFYING HER.
It's very weird that Marvel chose to use him for to market this.
What's strange for me is that we're talking about a company that is owned/controlled by Disney. I'm surprised there's not more made from that link. I suppose if your film division is churning out 2 hour shitfests that everyone throws money at, you can be pretty liberal with the guest artists you hire.
Taking the cynical approach for a moment, I assume that most artists/writers/etc of a certain size/fame have a fanbase that will buy anything they've done because they've done it. From that, I'd guess you can predict minimum numbers likely to be sold (Artist fans, obsessive collectors etc) do some quick calculations and figure out if you hire them or not. I have no idea what a cover would be charged at, but I would not suspect huge numbers. If you know you only need to sell X to be profitable and you already have Y pre-sold, it's not a decision you'll spend a lot of time on or care about. There's cat videos on youtube.
Another possibility is that he was a last minute fill-in when another dropped out. Sometimes you just have to go with the guy who says "Yes, I can meet that deadline" and you deal with the fallout after it. I would say it's only fair to treat them with the same level of incompetence and poor planning you expect from other companies so why not here?
A final point to note is that for everything there is, someone will masturbate to it. If Marvel really wanted to make serious cash, they'd license official "adult" shit under some line. I think they had a line for "Serious violence" so a "Marvel Erotica" doesn't seem impossible to me, as tragic as such a thing would be. At least such a thing would be a damn sight more honest and while you'd probably take some shit over it, no-ones going to be surprised or shocked by the cover/content.
Realistically, I would suspect Marvel to be pretty much immune to any real attempts at change as long as they're still churning out blockbuster films. I would guess you'd need to see a couple of serious flops (I.e - No ones goes and pays them money to see this shit) before they'll take a serious look at the various issues that persist with comics. This isn't likely when idiots keep throwing the $20 to see a man in flag/robot/space/spandex/etc. suit punch goons.
You have to remember though that this is the American public. Jack Bauer going all Gestapo = prime time television viewing. Slipped nipple = months of outrage. The sex can be implied, especially with tight, leather costumes, but never explicitly shown.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 22, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 21, 2014, 05:01:27 PM
Quote from: Your Mom on September 21, 2014, 04:30:21 PM
There's nothing quite like people who don't have a problem telling people with a problem that they don't see the problem. :lol:
In this case it is a bit of a sticky one. The artist does lots of porn, lots of porn with a bit of sci-fi, and some sci-fi . In his porn he can draw as many asses in the air and people wont complain. Someone's not going to read his illustration of Story of O and say; Hang on, THEY'RE OBJECTIFYING HER.
It's very weird that Marvel chose to use him for to market this.
What's strange for me is that we're talking about a company that is owned/controlled by Disney. I'm surprised there's not more made from that link. I suppose if your film division is churning out 2 hour shitfests that everyone throws money at, you can be pretty liberal with the guest artists you hire.
Taking the cynical approach for a moment, I assume that most artists/writers/etc of a certain size/fame have a fanbase that will buy anything they've done because they've done it. From that, I'd guess you can predict minimum numbers likely to be sold (Artist fans, obsessive collectors etc) do some quick calculations and figure out if you hire them or not. I have no idea what a cover would be charged at, but I would not suspect huge numbers. If you know you only need to sell X to be profitable and you already have Y pre-sold, it's not a decision you'll spend a lot of time on or care about. There's cat videos on youtube.
Another possibility is that he was a last minute fill-in when another dropped out. Sometimes you just have to go with the guy who says "Yes, I can meet that deadline" and you deal with the fallout after it. I would say it's only fair to treat them with the same level of incompetence and poor planning you expect from other companies so why not here?
A final point to note is that for everything there is, someone will masturbate to it. If Marvel really wanted to make serious cash, they'd license official "adult" shit under some line. I think they had a line for "Serious violence" so a "Marvel Erotica" doesn't seem impossible to me, as tragic as such a thing would be. At least such a thing would be a damn sight more honest and while you'd probably take some shit over it, no-ones going to be surprised or shocked by the cover/content.
Realistically, I would suspect Marvel to be pretty much immune to any real attempts at change as long as they're still churning out blockbuster films. I would guess you'd need to see a couple of serious flops (I.e - No ones goes and pays them money to see this shit) before they'll take a serious look at the various issues that persist with comics. This isn't likely when idiots keep throwing the $20 to see a man in flag/robot/space/spandex/etc. suit punch goons.
Pretty off topic, but i would just like to point out that one of my favorite mangas right now are drawn by a former hentai artist and it is PRICELESS:
http://www.mangahere.co/manga/shokugeki_no_soma/
That is all. Carry on.
It's all about proportion... Femoral proportion.