In writing the forward for the Etc. Discordia, I've been wrestling with the concept of "irreligion". The Etc. Discordia builds on the Principia, rather than striving to replace it. So I wonder, if this was a newcomer's introduction to Discordia, how much of the religious angle is necessary to convey the core meaning of Discordia? The Principia was full of rituals, chants, humorous hierarchy, mythology - it dressed the Discordian idea in priest's robes. But is that necessary? And if so, which parts of it are necessary?
I know this is a conversation we've had before, but I'd like to gain some fresh perspectives on it.
The Principia Discordia has enough religious dressings that you can treat it like a bible. In fact, that's probably how I was originally attracted to Discordia. I was estranged from Christianity, found that Taoism isn't a good fit for being a teenager in our culture, and ended up latching onto this zany irreligion. What PARTS of the Principia are necessary to carry the dialogue to that level? And if we were writing it today, what would those passages say?
The one positive that religion can create is the brotherhood/sisterhood and fellowship aspects. A belonging to a group of like minded people with similar ideas.
I'm not so sure the actual religious dressings of the Principia are necessary. But I think somehow tapping into that fellowship ideal of a "religion" is important. I think people are more motivated when they feel like they belong to something important. So like the initiation ritual of the Principia was important in that it gave the sense there was a way to join this thing that you were reading about. That sort of feeling can probably be accomplished without actually writing out a new initiation rite, or maybe it is one that's more of a hazing?? I don't know.
For me, the most powerful pieces of the Principia were the Aspirin commercial episode and Nonsense as Salvation, and neither of those were especially steeped in religious or ritualistic imagery.
So, those are my not so coherent thoughts for now.
you make a really strong point on the baptism bit, about how it gives you a concrete avenue to initiate yourself into this zany thing. I hadn't considered that.
Nonsense as Salvation has always been a favorite of mine, too. It's probably the closest thing that Discordians have to an actual moral code, right?
(googling "nonsense as salvation" revealed this nifty blog entry (http://prickleprickle.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/phi-215-lecture-2-nonsense-as-salvation/))
I'd keep the eating a hotdog on friday as initiation and the pope cards for religion, and dump everything else religious (except Eris, of course.) Let Discordja be a mindset, a worldview, rather than a religous group. Of course it still needs to make fun of religion, just as it makes fun of every other think devised by apes.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 03, 2008, 07:05:57 PM
In writing the forward for the Etc. Discordia, I've been wrestling with the concept of "irreligion". The Etc. Discordia builds on the Principia, rather than striving to replace it. So I wonder, if this was a newcomer's introduction to Discordia, how much of the religious angle is necessary to convey the core meaning of Discordia? The Principia was full of rituals, chants, humorous hierarchy, mythology - it dressed the Discordian idea in priest's robes. But is that necessary? And if so, which parts of it are necessary?
I know this is a conversation we've had before, but I'd like to gain some fresh perspectives on it.
The Principia Discordia has enough religious dressings that you can treat it like a bible. In fact, that's probably how I was originally attracted to Discordia. I was estranged from Christianity, found that Taoism isn't a good fit for being a teenager in our culture, and ended up latching onto this zany irreligion. What PARTS of the Principia are necessary to carry the dialogue to that level? And if we were writing it today, what would those passages say?
Whenever I have brought up the religious angle to newcomers they tend to bristle, but if I mention it as a philosophy it seems to be taken quite well. I've stopped mentioning it as a religion, except to people at my work so I can continue being "the creepy guy in the joke cult he doesn't know is a joke".
Quote from: Cramulus on September 03, 2008, 07:35:49 PM
you make a really strong point on the baptism bit, about how it gives you a concrete avenue to initiate yourself into this zany thing. I hadn't considered that.
Nonsense as Salvation has always been a favorite of mine, too. It's probably the closest thing that Discordians have to an actual moral code, right?
(googling "nonsense as salvation" revealed this nifty blog entry (http://prickleprickle.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/phi-215-lecture-2-nonsense-as-salvation/))
Absolutely. In fact, it is the closest thing I have to a religious faith. Seriously. There are times, as a father, I catch myself correcting my daughter when I don't need to. It's sort of a check and balance for me. "Why am I asking her to stop doing that? What harm is it actually doing?"
It's also annoyingly frustrating on another level. The level that you know in your heart and mind it is true, but you also know in your heart and mind, you'll never see enough people living by it where any meaningful change will occur. I personally believe this is strongly connected to an irrational fear of death. And that people need to squeeze blood out of every second of their life. But that's probably a whole other topic of conversation.
I love Discordia-as-religion because it really, really annoys some people who find it "disrespectful" to have a "religion" you don't take seriously, and who can't wrap their heads around the beautiful contradictions of a joke religion that's not a religion or a joke. Telling these people that it's not a serious religion but that I take it seriously usually upsets them.
I don't know. I think I might be in it because it's funny, but I think funny is sacred.
I agree with Cram's view of Eris not as an entity, but as a force. The entity "Eris" is an archetype that represents the force.
I'm not particularly a fan of a religious approach to Discordianism in practice. Yes, we are working together on things like GASM, but religion tends to operate on a mob mentality, while the basis for Discordianism is more individualistic. What we really have is a sort of faux community, a weird little paradox of people working in a group to liberate people from groups. Isn't the goal of Discordianism for people to stand on their own? I think what we have is more of a support group than a religion.
Well, now that nB has come out against the idea of Discordianism as a religion I'm starting to question my stance. Maybe I DO like it as a religion after all.
"Working together" has nothing to do with whether it's a religion. Individualistic religions are just as valid as conforming ones, they just don't tend to be large or successful.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on September 03, 2008, 09:12:34 PM
I'm not particularly a fan of a religious approach to Discordianism in practice. Yes, we are working together on things like GASM, but religion tends to operate on a mob mentality, while the basis for Discordianism is more individualistic. What we really have is a sort of faux community, a weird little paradox of people working in a group to liberate people from groups. Isn't the goal of Discordianism for people to stand on their own? I think what we have is more of a support group than a religion.
Think For Yourself, Schmuck doesn't mean you have to become a hermit. Humans want to belong to something. It is their nature. Black Sheep are still Sheep. It is important for people to be able to differentiate themselves from a hive mind, but that doesn't mean there isn't merit in hanging out at the hive.
I think we're going to waste a lot of breath if we discuss whether Discordia "is" or "is not" a religion.
I think the critical thing to ask is "how much" and "which parts".
on that note:
not too necessary
The book of Uterus: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/51.php
on prayer: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/19.php
Erisian affirmation: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/33.php
More useful:
POEE Priests: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/33.php
On Occultism: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/68.php
I'm not into the "is" or "is not" argument, because it can be either, depending on what people feel like. I'm just pointing out that defining religion as organized is a bit silly.
I like the religious trappings, personally.
If the aim is to "build upon" the PD... then it seems to me that the religious aspect of Discordianism would be necessary. If the aim is to create a publication that espouses some of the ideas and philosophy of the PD, without particularly building upon it... then I doubt religion is necessary.
However:
I am of the opinion that human beings tend to have lots of programming inside their heads. Programming from their parents, from their society and from their own experiences. Maybe it makes their reality tunnel or their reality filters or their Black Iron Prison. It might be described by Leary's circuit model, or by another more sane version ;-)... but in the end, in my opinion... in general humans seem to have a lot of built in responses for various scenarios and sensory data.
I think it may be somewhat easier to communicate with humans, particularly with respect to encouraging programmatic changes in their own way of thinking, through the use of metaphor and symbols (see Joe Campbell). It also seems that laughter, humor... particularly irreverent humor, may often be extremely useful in breaking through the defense mechanisms put in place around the 'programs'.
I think the PD has been successful (even if its just a joke... a joke this old that still has n00bs laughing is a damned fine success) specifically because it used irreverent humor to hook the reader, then through the use of symbols... to reprogram the reader.
If I say "Apple" to someone who is into Discordianism, I'd bet that the majority of people would think of the Golden Apple and what it symbolizes. The same for skidoo, 23, fnord or cabbage. If I say "Greyfaced Hunchbrain" it evokes a common set of ideas through a single symbolic reference (for sombunal discordians... just in case one of you spags try to say "NUNHUH, I don't think of that!!")
There probably are several different ways to communicate these ideas... however, religion, particularly religion as based on myth does seem to be a most effective and efficient way to promote symbols as ideas.
Here's what I wrote while Ratatosk was being a creepy ninja and writing the same stuff in different words:
Actually I think what really makes Discordia-as-religion is the collection of memes presented in PD. The Original Snub, the Pentabarf, the Law of Five, and all the quirky little jokes. Also the visual symbology.
RWHN is right, it's about a feeling of fellowship. And at the basis of this is a shared memeplex, a shared symbology to use when relating to a potential brother-in-faith. This is almost independent from the actual philosophy behind PD (Nonsense as Salvation, Sermon on Love and Ethics), though the two reinforce each other in many ways.
At the end of the day, without the symbology it would be a school of thought, not a religion.
It also seems to me that in the religious context it is more readily able to displace other ideas that are what we are trying to balance out. The static dogmas and gray philosophies are pegs in a hole, and if we want to switch them out, we should carve our ideas into a similarly shaped peg.
If anything, i would think more religious trappings would be better. The rigid nature of the precepts of organized religions are what allow them to assemble the massive hierarchical infrastructure of their loftiness. Why shouldn't we make a game of seeing how high we can build our tower with ideas that are the equivalent of silly putty and licorice sticks?
Who's trying to balance things out? I know I'm not. Fuck balance. Shut off the starboard engine. Let this crazy ship go spinning.
I'm gonna approach this issue in a Discordian way:
Discordianism-as-Religion is one model.
Discordianism-as-Philosophy is another model.
Discordianism-as-Troll is a third.
Etc
Etc
Ad Nauseum.
EMPLOY WHATEVER MODEL IS MOST USEFUL AT THE MOMENT. SPAGS.
Quote from: LMNO on September 04, 2008, 02:39:21 PM
I'm gonna approach this issue in a Discordian way:
Discordianism-as-Religion is one model.
Discordianism-as-Philosophy is another model.
Discordianism-as-Troll is a third.
Etc
Etc
Ad Nauseum.
EMPLOY WHATEVER MODEL IS MOST USEFUL AT THE MOMENT. SPAGS.
:lulz:
After reading this thread, I'm going to revise my response.
The mythology is important - it sets the context for the rest of the book. And it definately sets Discordja apart from the religions/philosophies whose point is to find reason, order, or balance.
I liked the reveal of 'everyone's a pope' AFTER the chart of 5 different religious ranks... all inferior to a Pope.
I like putting KSC after my name. (Sometimes, when I don't mind having to explain what it means.)
And the guide to proselytizing in the PD was beautiful in the way it nailed other religious marketing attempts, and 'sophisticated' believers.
In conclusion: having a screwball religion is just infinitely more awesome than a screwball philosophy.
Quote from: GA on September 04, 2008, 04:25:37 PM
After reading this thread, I'm going to revise my response.
The mythology is important - it sets the context for the rest of the book. And it definately sets Discordja apart from the religions/philosophies whose point is to find reason, order, or balance.
I liked the reveal of 'everyone's a pope' AFTER the chart of 5 different religious ranks... all inferior to a Pope.
I like putting KSC after my name. (Sometimes, when I don't mind having to explain what it means.)
And the guide to proselytizing in the PD was beautiful in the way it nailed other religious marketing attempts, and 'sophisticated' believers.
In conclusion: having a screwball religion is just infinitely more awesome than a screwball philosophy.
Agreed... though really, now that the Erisian 'Religion' exists, a Discordian Philosophy could be built on top of it. What are the Ethics of an Absurdest? I think perhaps an entire PD-like book could be written as a parody of books on Ethics/Philosophy and make very funny/salient points... perhaps as usefully as the PD, replacing myth with allegory.
Ah, I have just been inspired... The Ship of Theseus needs a Discordian treatment ;-)
Damnit, where's St. Verthaine when you need him?
Cleaning up after Gustav, most likely.
:oops: :x
Quote from: VERB` on September 03, 2008, 09:56:09 PM
Here's what I wrote while Ratatosk was being a creepy ninja and writing the same stuff in different words:
Actually I think what really makes Discordia-as-religion is the collection of memes presented in PD. The Original Snub, the Pentabarf, the Law of Five, and all the quirky little jokes. Also the visual symbology.
RWHN is right, it's about a feeling of fellowship. And at the basis of this is a shared memeplex, a shared symbology to use when relating to a potential brother-in-faith. This is almost independent from the actual philosophy behind PD (Nonsense as Salvation, Sermon on Love and Ethics), though the two reinforce each other in many ways.
At the end of the day, without the symbology it would be a school of thought, not a religion.
By this standard, the internet is a religion, and Encyclopedia Dramatica some kind of bible.
principia is the only religion i know of that gives you an "out"
the last thing you read in the pentabarf is that a discordian is can't believe what he reads.
not: follow these commandments, OR ELSE!!!!
(is a recovering catholic)
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on September 05, 2008, 12:08:53 AMBy this standard, the internet is a religion, and Encyclopedia Dramatica some kind of bible.
Yes, because I said anything with memes in it is a religion. :roll:
Quote from: GA on September 04, 2008, 04:25:37 PM
After reading this thread, I'm going to revise my response.
The mythology is important - it sets the context for the rest of the book. And it definately sets Discordja apart from the religions/philosophies whose point is to find reason, order, or balance.
I liked the reveal of 'everyone's a pope' AFTER the chart of 5 different religious ranks... all inferior to a Pope.
I like putting KSC after my name. (Sometimes, when I don't mind having to explain what it means.)
And the guide to proselytizing in the PD was beautiful in the way it nailed other religious marketing attempts, and 'sophisticated' believers.
In conclusion: having a screwball religion is just infinitely more awesome than a screwball philosophy.
:mittens:
Quote from: VERB` on September 04, 2008, 06:55:28 AM
Who's trying to balance things out? I know I'm not. Fuck balance. Shut off the starboard engine. Let this crazy ship go spinning.
...I think I love you. Or some vague emotion of love.
Quote from: nostalgicBadger on September 05, 2008, 12:08:53 AM
Quote from: VERB` on September 03, 2008, 09:56:09 PM
Here's what I wrote while Ratatosk was being a creepy ninja and writing the same stuff in different words:
Actually I think what really makes Discordia-as-religion is the collection of memes presented in PD. The Original Snub, the Pentabarf, the Law of Five, and all the quirky little jokes. Also the visual symbology.
RWHN is right, it's about a feeling of fellowship. And at the basis of this is a shared memeplex, a shared symbology to use when relating to a potential brother-in-faith. This is almost independent from the actual philosophy behind PD (Nonsense as Salvation, Sermon on Love and Ethics), though the two reinforce each other in many ways.
At the end of the day, without the symbology it would be a school of thought, not a religion.
By this standard, the internet is a religion, and Encyclopedia Dramatica some kind of bible.
Makes about as much sense as the Bahá'í...
Well... I have recently started to worship the semi-colon as the One True Representative of Gods love for His People.
Heathen. Ampersand is the one true lord.
Blashphemy! The true believers know where it's @.
Quote from: LMNO on September 05, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
Blashphemy! The true believers know where it's @.
:potd:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/RWHN/RHWNSEAL.jpg)
So, I went to my cousin's Bar Mitzvah. And I realized something: the songs are very, very powerful.
The religious aspect should have some good music to help draw people in. So if you want to add religious stuff, add music.
I like the religious side of PD for the reasons mentioned previously.
Though, I do think the original went a bit overboard with it, so I'd say keep some of the religious stuff, but not all of it.
As to what, I dunno, pope cards are a definite win though.
Quote from: PeregrineBF on September 05, 2008, 09:04:56 PM
So, I went to my cousin's Bar Mitzvah. And I realized something: the songs are very, very powerful.
I realized that a long time ago, you know. When I was in 7th and 8th grade and made to go to church, I actually liked it when the band would play and sing, because it just gave me this feeling in my chest, like deity was really there. 'course I wouldn't have admitted that at the time, as I thought I was atheist (I'm not really sure what I am anymore). But anyway, I agree that music can be a very powerful tool.
One of my current projects is about writing songs with BIP themes.
Perhaps Discordian Psalms?
Look at the Homeric Hymns for example...unfortunately I don't believe one exists for Eris, so we need to make one.
Well, there is that one in the PD that is set to the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic. I've always thought of doing a metal-treatment of that. But as usual, I think of it, but never get around to actually doing it.
http://www.reverbnation.com/earfatigueproductions
Check out tracks by "Gerund". I'll add some more tonight.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 08, 2008, 05:08:46 PM
Well, there is that one in the PD that is set to the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic. I've always thought of doing a metal-treatment of that. But as usual, I think of it, but never get around to actually doing it.
Also, the Onward Christian Soldiers treatment...
i saw an article in the paper compairing religion to football
including people who take it SRS and not so srs
the only really part i remember
is that a bible is merely taking home the playbook after you win and go home or something along those lines, tho i probally am butchering the idea badly, Maybe google can help, i feel lucky (http://www.hackwriters.com/footyjj.htm) hmm no thats not quite it....
again... (http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Religion-Of-Football&id=358953)
QuoteNote this passage from the Big Playbook of St. Gipper, recently discovered in a dark basement on the campus of Notre Dame University.
The passage reads: "And on the seventh day God created football and all was right with the world... until Satan brought forth the referees..."
It is impossible to believe in college football without also believing in a Higher Power. Here in Alabama - and in a whole lot of other places - football is a religion. To some, it is the only religion. Blasphemy, you say? I don't think so. More prayers are said and answered during the average college football game than in most churches during a month of Sundays. That explains why evangelists love to hold revivals in football stadiums. The mood has already been set. The congregation holds season tickets.
^ this might be it but im not sure :?
i think its in my pile of newspapers to clips out next to the holy pooptestment scrapbook and the fnord collection
Just yesterday I decided that religion is like sports. Some (most) people have certain teams they are passionate about, probably because they want something to belong to. Usually the favorite team is something they were taught, by participating with their families in cheering and whatnot. Other people just pick teams to root for, for no particular reason other than a subconscious affinity. Some people just don't give a shit. Some people hate sports and consider them a waste of time.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on September 13, 2008, 06:34:17 AM
Just yesterday I decided that religion is like sports. Some (most) people have certain teams they are passionate about, probably because they want something to belong to. Usually the favorite team is something they were taught, by participating with their families in cheering and whatnot. Other people just pick teams to root for, for no particular reason other than a subconscious affinity. Some people just don't give a shit. Some people hate sports and consider them a waste of time.
What sport is Discordianism?
Curling.
wouldn't a more obvious choice be Calvinball?
No because curling is something you can actually take seriously.
And, you know. Is real.
Buzkashi.
E/O/T.
Yarts
Fencing, maybe?
(I know nothing of fencing, but it seemed appropriate...)
Bocce.
Competitive Pooping.
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
Competitive Pooping.
ehh. Since they changed the scoring to disproportionately weight difficulty over execution, i think the sport has been soiled.
Quote from: Iptuous on September 15, 2008, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
Competitive Pooping.
ehh. Since they changed the scoring to disproportionately weight difficulty over execution, i think the sport has been soiled.
That's one painful pun.
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on September 15, 2008, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
Competitive Pooping.
ehh. Since they changed the scoring to disproportionately weight difficulty over execution, i think the sport has been soiled.
That's one painful pun.
it's painful because it's corny.
...and a little nutty.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 15, 2008, 11:14:30 PM
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 15, 2008, 03:34:54 PM
Buzkashi.
E/O/T.
I hesitated to investigate because i was thinking of Bukake, but then i did and now i agree with you...
E/O/T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzkashi)
Quote from: Iptuous on September 15, 2008, 11:06:19 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Iptuous on September 15, 2008, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Netaungrot on September 15, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
Competitive Pooping.
ehh. Since they changed the scoring to disproportionately weight difficulty over execution, i think the sport has been soiled.
That's one painful pun.
it's painful because it's corny.
...and a little nutty.
Gross abuse of puns, ITT.
Well at any measure, there wasn't a lot of ritual or ceremony posted at the party at Limbo Peak. Now since it's the internet, it may not be a fair sampling of Discordians. So I wonder how prevalent self-identifying Discordians are amongst more traditionally religious types. I know a bunch of you do or did attend various pagan shenanigans. Are there a lot of self-identifying Discordians in pagan circles?
there are alot of discordian-identified assholes in pagan circles.
does that count?
yeah that counts. How many people IS that?
In Pagan groups I find a lot of Pagans that include Eris in their Pantheon. That is they claim "Insert SRS pagan belief system here" AND "insert chunk of silly belief system here". In several cases, this seems useful. A lot of the "non fluffy" pagans tend to hold both views and in general the Erisian aspects of their system keep them from swallowing whole some of the nonsense from the other aspects of their belief system... perhaps they're inoculated with Discordian anti-bodies which attack obviously dumb viral belief memes?
However, there are also SRS Discordian Pagans that really worship Eris and really do rituals and really think she interacts with them. Or at least, that's what they claim.
And finally, as ECH so succinctly put it "there are alot of discordian-identified assholes in pagan circles".
On average, I've found at least one of the above in pretty much every pagan group I've ever poked at.
this makes me want to go harass Daven again.
I thought the whole point was that it is a religion. Weird Philosophy Book Club just doesn't have the same je ne sais quoi.
I think you really start going down the wrong path, if you are trying to get people to take Discordianism seriously. Although, I won't stand in your way. (especially if you're pissing)
Quote from: wlfjstr on September 17, 2008, 03:45:36 AM
I thought the whole point was that it is a religion. Weird Philosophy Book Club just doesn't have the same je ne sais quoi.
I think you really start going down the wrong path, if you are trying to get people to take Discordianism seriously. Although, I won't stand in your way. (especially if you're pissing)
I don't think people in this thread (I'm assuming that's whom you are referring to) are trying to take, or get people to take, Discordianism seriously. Seems more like we're trying to figure out what the fuck we're doing, if indeed we're doing anything at all, and what the hell does it have to do with the label "Discordianism".
Or something like that.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 15, 2008, 03:34:54 PM
Buzkashi.
E/O/T.
Yes. If I had remembered this exists I would have said that.
And I wouldn't call Discordianism a religion. IMO, a religion is not just a set of beliefs, but also a set of social rules and cultural mores. At best it's a philosophy disguised as a religion for dirty kicks.
'philosophy'
belief vs idea
dogma vs catma
sure the idea lends itself to suggest ok as such but i dont know, that word just suggests we are merely greeks in a circle :fap:
I find "irreligion" very suitable for describing Discordianism. It's not quite a religion in the normal sense, and it has strong overtones of irreligion, iconoclasm and blasphemy, but it does seem to "replace" religion in a way that mere hardline Atheism does not.
I started out as a practicing Wiccan and then when I found Eris I just desided she was particularly suited for my vein of irreverent witchcraft. I never really un-identified as a witch and still wear a pentagram and engage in ritual, (shhhhh it's my dirty little secret!) but I have never met any other witches who identify themselves as Discordian. I have, however, met plenty of Burners who dig Eris, especially the oldschool ones who used to go in order to shoot at things and blow stuff up.
Unfortunately, they no longer allow firearms or explosives at Burning Man. :(
I do occasional magical rites and dedicate them to Eris, but I'm not a Wiccan.
I'm also developing an alter for Eris.
I'm not a Wiccan anymore; they have too many damn rules.
Exactly.
Let's start something new, Nigel.
Hoopla,
I'd be interested to see what you've got going for your altar to Eris. I have been considering the same thing.
Has anybody here chosen to believe in Eris as an actual personal entity? I've been thinking about doing that. I imagine it would take some effort and time to convince ones self of something like this, but i'm sure it could be done with the proper rationalization and filtering....
I see Eris as a metaphor, except a little more real than normal metaphors. (i.e, I don't see the metaphor as just a matter of rhetoric, I do think of her as something that exists, in a sense.)
Quote from: Iptuous on September 17, 2008, 11:30:32 PM
Hoopla,
I'd be interested to see what you've got going for your altar to Eris. I have been considering the same thing.
Has anybody here chosen to believe in Eris as an actual personal entity? I've been thinking about doing that. I imagine it would take some effort and time to convince ones self of something like this, but i'm sure it could be done with the proper rationalization and filtering....
I only believe in Eris when it is necessary, the rest of the time she is all metaphor to me.
Currently my alter is nonexistent. I have a small statue of Kali, and a small book of . . . things . . . which will have to go anonymously for the time being. There is a gentleman in Toronto who makes statues which look very ancient greek, I am saving some money right now and will soon commission him to make me an Eris statue.
What I plan for the rest is to get every image of Eris I can find, and either print them out nicely, or copy them by hand... the statues, obviously, my book, a small ceramic bowl for burnt things, a larger bowl I can fill with Golden Delicious apples, and candles.
I am working on some attributions at the moment, and when I am finished I will be using them to fill it all out (incense, blackthorn, images of snakes, and whatnot...)
So... its mostly in my head at the moment.
Quote from: Hoopla on September 17, 2008, 09:54:26 PM
Exactly.
Let's start something new, Nigel.
WITCHES 4 ERIS
I see Eris as an archetype. For whatever that's worth.
I don't have anything specifically Eris-y on my altar. I have a cast iron pot for burning things, a statue of Pan rampant, an African bird goddess statuette, a cock-shaped rock, a Pollen Boy, a bell, a cup of water, an incense burner, a knife, some paper, some candles, some tobacco, cedar, sage, and kinnikinnik, as well as a bunch of other crap that varies.
Quote from: Iptuous on September 17, 2008, 11:30:32 PM
Hoopla,
I'd be interested to see what you've got going for your altar to Eris. I have been considering the same thing.
Has anybody here chosen to believe in Eris as an actual personal entity? I've been thinking about doing that. I imagine it would take some effort and time to convince ones self of something like this, but i'm sure it could be done with the proper rationalization and filtering....
I know people that believe in her as real. Heck if people can believe in Xenu, Eris is child's play.
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2008, 12:20:22 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on September 17, 2008, 09:54:26 PM
Exactly.
Let's start something new, Nigel.
WITCHES 4 ERIS
I see Eris as an archetype. For whatever that's worth.
I don't have anything specifically Eris-y on my altar. I have a cast iron pot for burning things, a statue of Pan, an African bird goddess statuette, a cock-shaped rock, a Pollen Boy, a bell, a cup of water, an incense burner, a knife, some paper, some candles, some tobacco, cedar, sage, and kinnikinnik, as well as a bunch of other crap that varies.
Can we also be color witches?
Quote from: Hoopla on September 18, 2008, 12:22:34 AM
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2008, 12:20:22 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on September 17, 2008, 09:54:26 PM
Exactly.
Let's start something new, Nigel.
WITCHES 4 ERIS
I see Eris as an archetype. For whatever that's worth.
I don't have anything specifically Eris-y on my altar. I have a cast iron pot for burning things, a statue of Pan, an African bird goddess statuette, a cock-shaped rock, a Pollen Boy, a bell, a cup of water, an incense burner, a knife, some paper, some candles, some tobacco, cedar, sage, and kinnikinnik, as well as a bunch of other crap that varies.
Can we also be color witches?
SURE what is a color witch?
I like crayons!
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2008, 12:23:06 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on September 18, 2008, 12:22:34 AM
Quote from: Nigel on September 18, 2008, 12:20:22 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on September 17, 2008, 09:54:26 PM
Exactly.
Let's start something new, Nigel.
WITCHES 4 ERIS
I see Eris as an archetype. For whatever that's worth.
I don't have anything specifically Eris-y on my altar. I have a cast iron pot for burning things, a statue of Pan, an African bird goddess statuette, a cock-shaped rock, a Pollen Boy, a bell, a cup of water, an incense burner, a knife, some paper, some candles, some tobacco, cedar, sage, and kinnikinnik, as well as a bunch of other crap that varies.
Can we also be color witches?
SURE what is a color witch?
Oh poop... you haven't seen A Mighty Wind?
They talk about color witches in it.
Damn it, I have not. I will add it to my Netflix!
It's a good time!
I added it. :)
Quote from: Ratatosk on September 18, 2008, 12:21:54 AM
I know people that believe in her as real. Heck if people can believe in Xenu, Eris is child's play.
Do they have a presence on the intarnets somewhere?
Quote from: Hoopla on September 18, 2008, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on September 17, 2008, 11:30:32 PM
Hoopla,
I'd be interested to see what you've got going for your altar to Eris. I have been considering the same thing.
Has anybody here chosen to believe in Eris as an actual personal entity? I've been thinking about doing that. I imagine it would take some effort and time to convince ones self of something like this, but i'm sure it could be done with the proper rationalization and filtering....
I only believe in Eris when it is necessary, the rest of the time she is all metaphor to me.
Currently my alter is nonexistent. I have a small statue of Kali, and a small book of . . . things . . . which will have to go anonymously for the time being. There is a gentleman in Toronto who makes statues which look very ancient greek, I am saving some money right now and will soon commission him to make me an Eris statue.
What I plan for the rest is to get every image of Eris I can find, and either print them out nicely, or copy them by hand... the statues, obviously, my book, a small ceramic bowl for burnt things, a larger bowl I can fill with Golden Delicious apples, and candles.
I am working on some attributions at the moment, and when I am finished I will be using them to fill it all out (incense, blackthorn, images of snakes, and whatnot...)
So... its mostly in my head at the moment.
What kind of insence matches Eris?
*needs a new scent, or a way to get Astha thats not in sample packs
Edit: Had the name of the sampler they keep tormenting me with in packs of Nag Champa wrong.
Quote from: Requiem on September 18, 2008, 12:43:06 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on September 18, 2008, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Iptuous on September 17, 2008, 11:30:32 PM
Hoopla,
I'd be interested to see what you've got going for your altar to Eris. I have been considering the same thing.
Has anybody here chosen to believe in Eris as an actual personal entity? I've been thinking about doing that. I imagine it would take some effort and time to convince ones self of something like this, but i'm sure it could be done with the proper rationalization and filtering....
I only believe in Eris when it is necessary, the rest of the time she is all metaphor to me.
Currently my alter is nonexistent. I have a small statue of Kali, and a small book of . . . things . . . which will have to go anonymously for the time being. There is a gentleman in Toronto who makes statues which look very ancient greek, I am saving some money right now and will soon commission him to make me an Eris statue.
What I plan for the rest is to get every image of Eris I can find, and either print them out nicely, or copy them by hand... the statues, obviously, my book, a small ceramic bowl for burnt things, a larger bowl I can fill with Golden Delicious apples, and candles.
I am working on some attributions at the moment, and when I am finished I will be using them to fill it all out (incense, blackthorn, images of snakes, and whatnot...)
So... its mostly in my head at the moment.
What kind of insence matches Eris?
*needs a new scent, or a way to get Ataya thats not in sample packs
That's what I'm working on.
Quote from: Iptuous on September 18, 2008, 12:39:10 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on September 18, 2008, 12:21:54 AM
I know people that believe in her as real. Heck if people can believe in Xenu, Eris is child's play.
Do they have a presence on the intarnets somewhere?
Yes!
http://www.scientology.org
BPAL (perfume makers) apparently decided eris is "wet fruits and sharp mimosa with Martial spices and a deceptive flash of floral. "
Where?
http://www.blackphoenixalchemylab.com/excolo.html Here
Gonna buy some!
So, Hoopla and Nigel, you're like... Discordian witches? I like the idea of that concept. Intriguing.
Yes, basically that.
i dont have an alter but i found a bell at one of "those" foreign shops, which had an apple at top of it, so i took out a magic marker (blessed with apple juice) and wrote a big K on the side.
we use it when we are bored to bring about chaos, plus its a good paperweight holding up a copy of steve jackson's pd (ive been tempted lately to burn it and replace it with a yellow cover pd but ive been wanting to buy 23 copies of that one in one go to have some bizzar effect im not sure yet)
has anyone ever told you to shut the ever-loving fuck up?
I believe 100% in eris when its fun or ironic, or obnoxious to do so. But I also espouse that one day Richard Nixon will return to rase the land. It can be very theraputic to be a zealot of some aspect for a couple of hours every so often, once you get it out of your system it leaves a lot of room to question things.
that's a good way of putting it.
Quote from: Faust on September 18, 2008, 12:59:35 PM
I believe 100% in eris when its fun or ironic, or obnoxious to do so. But I also espouse that one day Richard Nixon will return to rase the land. It can be very theraputic to be a zealot of some aspect for a couple of hours every so often, once you get it out of your system it leaves a lot of room to question things.
:mittens:
What initially drew me to Discordia was the way it sort of unfolds like an onion. It's presented like a religion but then it turns out to be a conspiracy, which then turns out to be a philosophy, which turns out to be a joke, which turns out to be all-of-the-above or none of it. Discordians can be your friends or they can be your enemies. It's all true, false or self contradictory. You can take whichever of these happen to fit you at the moment and run with it.
Maybe each time has a set of Discordian aspects that are somehow more relevant though. Today I think the conspiracy angle may be too clichéd to work, for example. Religion may be too.
Quote from: nurbldoff on September 18, 2008, 06:25:22 PM
What initially drew me to Discordia was the way it sort of unfolds like an onion. It's presented like a religion but then it turns out to be a conspiracy, which then turns out to be a philosophy, which turns out to be a joke, which turns out to be all-of-the-above or none of it. Discordians can be your friends or they can be your enemies. It's all true, false or self contradictory. You can take whichever of these happen to fit you at the moment and run with it.
Maybe each time has a set of Discordian aspects that are somehow more relevant though. Today I think the conspiracy angle may be too clichéd to work, for example. Religion may be too.
Discordia is not an onion! There is no crying in Discordia!
:argh!:
Then prove to me that Discordia is not an onion.
Quote from: wlfjstr on September 17, 2008, 03:45:36 AM
I thought the whole point was that it is a religion.
No. It's a joke,
disguised as a religion, remember?
Or a religion disguised as an onion.
Quote from: LMNO on September 18, 2008, 07:07:53 PM
Quote from: wlfjstr on September 17, 2008, 03:45:36 AM
I thought the whole point was that it is a religion.
No. It's a joke, disguised as a religion, remember?
And here I thought it was a religion disguised as a joke.
Quote from: Requiem on September 18, 2008, 07:30:03 PM
Quote from: LMNO on September 18, 2008, 07:07:53 PM
Quote from: wlfjstr on September 17, 2008, 03:45:36 AM
I thought the whole point was that it is a religion.
No. It's a joke, disguised as a religion, remember?
And here I thought it was a religion disguised as a joke.
And here I was joking about it being a thought disguised as a religion.
And here I am, shitting on your head.
Quote from: LMNO on September 18, 2008, 07:34:15 PM
And here I am, shitting on your head.
and here I am, making ass hats
:asshat:
and here I am, rocking you like a hurricane
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on September 18, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
and here I am, rocking you like a hurricane
This is the correct answer.
Quote from: East Coast Hustle on September 18, 2008, 12:34:27 PM
has anyone ever told you to shut the ever-loving fuck up?
does that mean you dont wanna cuddle and talk?
i think anything religious-esque that can be found in anything discordian is suggestive at best
at root its a tool box of perspectives not commonly found in modern western society
whatever any individual does to keep these tools at hand and sharpened (ie. keep them in mind) is up to the individual
if you need to jerk off while thinking of something called eris - so be it
if you need to go somewhere on sundays - so be it
if you need to eat a certain thing - so be it
and if you wanna show it off to other people as a facet of what you do with your psychological tools - thats all good too
when im feeling flamboyant i wear a pink shirt
I think Discordianism needs to be a religion, one that's heavily commercialized and compatible with popular culture, and as attractive as possible to people who are looking for something to tell them what to do. That way, we could take in millions and millions of suckers and program them to do things that subvert society without them having to necessarily be in on the plan at all.
Quote from: vexati0n on October 11, 2008, 11:46:07 PM
I think Discordianism needs to be a religion, one that's heavily commercialized and compatible with popular culture, and as attractive as possible to people who are looking for something to tell them what to do. That way, we could take in millions and millions of suckers and program them to do things that subvert society without them having to necessarily be in on the plan at all.
:mittens:
Integrity vs. Money and Cult Leadership... :lulz: I know what I want!
We will, however, be obliged to lead an Inquisition against the people who call us False and claim to be Real Discordians.
Quote from: Cainad on October 11, 2008, 11:49:18 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on October 11, 2008, 11:46:07 PM
I think Discordianism needs to be a religion, one that's heavily commercialized and compatible with popular culture, and as attractive as possible to people who are looking for something to tell them what to do. That way, we could take in millions and millions of suckers and program them to do things that subvert society without them having to necessarily be in on the plan at all.
:mittens:
Integrity vs. Money and Cult Leadership... :lulz: I know what I want!
We will, however, be obliged to lead an Inquisition against the people who call us False and claim to be Real Discordians.
Wrong.
The Inquisition would have to go after those who DON'T think they are the really real discordians for realness. Cause those spags are obviously just on a long and deep cover troll.
personally, when it comes to the religious aspect of discordia, i lean towards a mixture of what LHX said approached as a mystery school.
at its very core, they're psychological, or philosophical perspectives and tools that vary enough from what could be considered "normal." however, many are presented as religious tenants and practices.
the latter is what an initiate in a mystery school perceives; the former is the real mystery they are gradually exposed to as they progress.
examples: [classic] law of fives.
my experience with this (perhaps a not-uncommon experience) was, "WTF? that doesn't mean anything!"
then, in a little while, i saw 5's and 23's- a little at first, then spiraling into greater and greater frequency. i didn't know what to think. after more of this, i started to think, "well, the law of fives seems to work. but why?" the mind-journey that i took tip-toed around what eventually came to be my current understanding of the Law: we ultimately project the significance by filtering out other information, thereby increasing the experience of particular information. [somehow, i don't think being told this outright has the same effect as applying it and understanding it after the fact.]
but it was important- for me- that it be viewed somewhere towards the beginning as a religious phenomenon. my path went: skeptical>intrigued>believing>understanding independent of belief. or something.
i've personally found a lot of what i would consider philosophical ideas significant to discordia where others saw religious fluff in the PD. i think a lot of it was dressed that way (a) to discourage people that absolutely need to take it seriously and (b) to loosen the sense of seriousness left in people that didn't need to take it so seriously. of course, if you're accustomed to not needing seriousness, those pieces might seem superfluous. but how about this:
zarathud has to stand on his head to read the pentabarf, suggesting to read it backwards (5>1 instead fo 1>5). that makes the very first command "do not believe what you read," etc... (i don't want to sermonize on the pentabarf here...)
through a religious approach, i have been able to see religiously influenced parts of my life i would have otherwise been oblivious to. as that religious approach emancipates into a philosophical one, then i see philosophically influenced aspects of myself that i would have otherwise been oblivious to.
Quote from: Prater Festwo on October 14, 2008, 08:07:00 PM
personally, when it comes to the religious aspect of discordia, i lean towards a mixture of what LHX said approached as a mystery school.
at its very core, they're psychological, or philosophical perspectives and tools that vary enough from what could be considered "normal." however, many are presented as religious tenants and practices.
the latter is what an initiate in a mystery school perceives; the former is the real mystery they are gradually exposed to as they progress.
examples: [classic] law of fives.
my experience with this (perhaps a not-uncommon experience) was, "WTF? that doesn't mean anything!"
then, in a little while, i saw 5's and 23's- a little at first, then spiraling into greater and greater frequency. i didn't know what to think. after more of this, i started to think, "well, the law of fives seems to work. but why?" the mind-journey that i took tip-toed around what eventually came to be my current understanding of the Law: we ultimately project the significance by filtering out other information, thereby increasing the experience of particular information. [somehow, i don't think being told this outright has the same effect as applying it and understanding it after the fact.]
but it was important- for me- that it be viewed somewhere towards the beginning as a religious phenomenon. my path went: skeptical>intrigued>believing>understanding independent of belief. or something.
i've personally found a lot of what i would consider philosophical ideas significant to discordia where others saw religious fluff in the PD. i think a lot of it was dressed that way (a) to discourage people that absolutely need to take it seriously and (b) to loosen the sense of seriousness left in people that didn't need to take it so seriously. of course, if you're accustomed to not needing seriousness, those pieces might seem superfluous. but how about this:
zarathud has to stand on his head to read the pentabarf, suggesting to read it backwards (5>1 instead fo 1>5). that makes the very first command "do not believe what you read," etc... (i don't want to sermonize on the pentabarf here...)
through a religious approach, i have been able to see religiously influenced parts of my life i would have otherwise been oblivious to. as that religious approach emancipates into a philosophical one, then i see philosophically influenced aspects of myself that i would have otherwise been oblivious to.
:mittens:
On a serious note, I think there could be more religion in Discordianism than there is, or at least we could frame some elements of it in a religious tone. For example O:M could be seen as a sacrament or ritual that actually produces results. In my IRL experience moreso than online, the act of O:M is useful not only to potentially free a person's brain from its programming, but to help yours stay more free. The thrill of O:M is one reward, and it also become easier to stay outside the programming if you keep it up.
The problem is that calling it a ritual or sacrament might lead to making it formulaic like any other ritual, and what should be an exciting act could become a chore that you do mindlessly, resulting in no net gain for you.
A lot of Discordians who don't post here treat it much more like a religion.
Quote from: Nigel on October 15, 2008, 12:21:39 AM
A lot of Discordians who don't post here treat it much more like a religion.
Lucky us Discordia isn't a consensus. :lol:
framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone. You're essentially giving an act 'significance.' then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.' Not bad, that. If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly. thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'
Quote from: Burns on October 15, 2008, 01:12:49 AM
framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone. You're essentially giving an act 'significance.' then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.' Not bad, that. If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly. thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'
+2 vs law?
Quote from: Kai on October 15, 2008, 01:16:42 AM
Quote from: Burns on October 15, 2008, 01:12:49 AM
framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone. You're essentially giving an act 'significance.' then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.' Not bad, that. If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly. thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'
+2 to fuck socks.
Amendments were necessary.
Quote from: Felix on October 15, 2008, 01:21:02 AM
Quote from: Kai on October 15, 2008, 01:16:42 AM
Quote from: Burns on October 15, 2008, 01:12:49 AM
framing an O:MF as a ritual or sacrament could be an interesting twist for someone. You're essentially giving an act 'significance.' then, through repetition, it becomes an aspect of your 'character.' Not bad, that. If you're habitually looking for creative solutions or perceptions of problems and ideas you get to refresh your brain constantly. thats partially why i refer to discordianism as 'religious enhancements.'
+2 to fuck socks.
Amendments were necessary.
:lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: vexati0n on October 14, 2008, 11:38:39 PM
On a serious note, I think there could be more religion in Discordianism than there is, or at least we could frame some elements of it in a religious tone. For example O:M could be seen as a sacrament or ritual that actually produces results. In my IRL experience moreso than online, the act of O:M is useful not only to potentially free a person's brain from its programming, but to help yours stay more free. The thrill of O:M is one reward, and it also become easier to stay outside the programming if you keep it up.
The problem is that calling it a ritual or sacrament might lead to making it formulaic like any other ritual, and what should be an exciting act could become a chore that you do mindlessly, resulting in no net gain for you.
one idea i had about the "fer srsly" rituals in the PD was that by seriously practicing a ritual (for someone who is soooo religious, i.e. non-discordant) someone is presented with:
blasphemy/taboo: for those of you haven't experienced religious taboo/weren't raised initially with strong religious backgrounds, performing a blasphemy to a core value is an event that can cause fracture. by, for example, an initiate raised as a devout catholic- eating a hotdog on friday can be strange, or shouting "Flying Babyshit!" during a baptism, or "cursing" someone with the turkey curse... these rituals bring old conditioning to the forefront of the initiate's awareness ("i can't eat a hot dog...it's
friday fer chissake!") creating a moment of cognitive dissonance.
some things that might be felt as a result are: fear; guilt; curiosity; intrigue; silliness; etc...
to what degree a person feels this, and what exactly they feel, one may be able to gauge the extent to which old dogmas and memes are present, and what their strength currently is.
With this arena, static rituals are already in place with the PD (i personally wouldn't do very many of them todays), so one could consider OM to be initiation to and practice of the "Dynamic Mysteries" of our Living Religion.
just a thought.
Maybe it comes down to
How do I see religion? Do I see something religious as a ritual I do in every day life?
Does it have to include a god(s)?
There of course, is the concrete definition of religion but most people have their own perspective on what it is.
Whether Discordia is a religion in itself or not, you'll have to decide for yourself, maybe how much it pertains to your life in general. Some people call that religion.
I say, if you choose to "worship" Discordia, be my guest. Power to you. Eris knows we can always use more insight or a different perspective.
Discordia just happens to be the way I think, and fits very well with my personality.
I see it as more of a "Guideline to open mindedness and sexual promescuity towards ancient deities"
I think that one of the reasons for the staying power of the PD is the religious angle, particularly that of a religion that you can belong to without ever having to meet another... umm.... well, anyone. With that in mind, I think that you should utilize the religious angle in any work that seeks to build off the PD.
What's more, it's easier to sell Enlightenment as a 'religion' than a 'philosophy'; take for example the fact that Buddhism is thought of as a religion when its really more of a philosophy at its core.
Personally, I consider myself a Discordian (or Erisian, I use the terms interchangably) and will cheerfully explain that it is my religion to anyone that asks about my religion, or anyone I think I can amuse and/or fuck with (e.g. Mormons and Witnesses - I love talking to those guys).
I don't believe in an interventionist god (I think of prayer as generally a waste of time and potentially dangerous, though I do occasionally indulge) but I've decided that I do believe that there is a god, and what's more that god loves me much the way my mom loves me. This is how I've explained it to my son: Eris loves you all the time, just like mommy loves you - even when you can't see her she still loves you. Discordianism gives me something to hang that belief on. Also the idea that chaos and creativity are the sources of greatness in life as opposed to laws and conformity is obvious to anyone who bothers to look around.
So I'm passing this on to my son as well - I'm teaching him that when people say God, what it means is Eris. In part this is because he joined Beavers this year (a Canadian pre-Cub Scouts thing, most amusing) and part of that is the Beaver Promise: "I promise to love God and help take care of the world," - as a result I had to explain God. Well, I didn't *have* to since he's 7 and autistic and just repeating the words anyway, but I wanted to.
For many years I performed the Sacrament Of The Mismatched Socks. I'm teaching my kiddo that that's cool too.
Anyway, yeah - I dig on Discordia-as-religion.
Quote from: Nigel on September 03, 2008, 09:10:30 PM
I love Discordia-as-religion because it really, really annoys some people who find it "disrespectful" to have a "religion" you don't take seriously, and who can't wrap their heads around the beautiful contradictions of a joke religion that's not a religion or a joke. Telling these people that it's not a serious religion but that I take it seriously usually upsets them.
I don't know. I think I might be in it because it's funny, but I think funny is sacred.
I agree with Cram's view of Eris not as an entity, but as a force. The entity "Eris" is an archetype that represents the force.
I agree with this idea. I also think that it's quite a mindfuck in itself to have a religion for which piety is being impieous towards everything -- belief in discordiansim is disbelief in everything, including discordianism. This is a nice antidote to the odd caveats of popular logocentrism that eschew quines, strange loops, and seeming self-contradiction. This is one of the reasons I consider the Pentabarf to be one of the things it's necessary to keep, in some form -- in a very veiled way, it's a summation of the entire POV.
If I were to try and update the pentabarf, it'd probably be something like this:
"1) Chaos causes order causes chaos, and thou shalt have no other goddess before her, except sometimes.
2) It is forbidden to believe anything.
3) You are required not to eat hot dog buns.
4) You are required not to obey.
5) You are required to eat a hotdog bun every friday before breakfast."