Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Two vast and trunkless legs of stone => Topic started by: LMNO on August 22, 2016, 08:38:51 PM

Title: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: LMNO on August 22, 2016, 08:38:51 PM
So, the first temple to Odin since Christianity rolled in was consecrated in Denmark.
http://spangenhelm.com/valheim-hof-denmark-dedicated-odin-gods/

I have a couple of pagan friends who are really excited and want to go.  However, they're most likely completely oblivious to the whole White Power/Odinism connection.  I can't find out much else about the temple, so I don't want to bum them out just yet; however, if it is a WP front, I feel I should really let them know.

Anyone hear anything about this?
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Suu on August 22, 2016, 09:36:21 PM
As far as I know, it's NOT a WP front, those groups seem to come mostly out of Germany rather than the actual Scandinavian countries. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be cautious though.

With that said, there is quite a large Asatru revival happening right now, along with an equally big Hellenismos revival in Greece. The Greek Nationalists have actually turned toward Orthodox Christianity rather than paganism, so at least for now, from what I've been able to pick up, they aren't into those pagan circles as much. The joke is really on the WP Odinists though, because last I checked, there was a whole myth involving Odin having dark skinned children (I need to check this). All the more reason why I believe fucking Nazis are illiterate shitbags.

Another issue is the WP turn toward Romanitas, which is pissing me the fuck off for reasons. The New Thing is that because the Romans were white (lolno) and conquered and enslaved, that they're the pivotal example of what white supremacy should be. This is wrong on over 9000 levels. Fucking Gibbonites, that book is outdated by 200 years, and people still fucking believe him when he said that Rome fell because of black people and women.  :evilmad:
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Cain on August 22, 2016, 10:35:21 PM
It appears to be a venture by a Jim Lyngvild, a fashion critic, writer of fantasy novels and social media narcissist in Denmark

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lyngvild&prev=search

http://cphpost.dk/news/who-is/who-is-jim-lyngvild.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/169683/islamization-copenhagen-bruce-bawer (note: Bawer is one of the many sources cited by Breivik's manifesto, nevertheless there is an interesting anecdote further down)

It seems, on early inspection, that this isn't organised Odinist white power stuff...but Lyngvild isn't exactly a man of character or high moral standing either, and may be unwittingly enabling racism due to his status.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 22, 2016, 11:58:59 PM
It's probably worth quickly noting the links between odinism nonsense, black metal and terrible people. It's not a short list but the themes are consistent. I would assume that right wing overtones are going to be everywhere along with an unhealthy dose of nationalism.

No prizes for guessing attitudes towards black/gay/disabled/etc. Folk.

Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 23, 2016, 12:49:37 AM
If you're not happy with your local Gods, what makes anyone think they'd be happy with waffle's God?  So, what, hang a few thralls, eat frozen butter, and look like a Molly Hatchet album cover?  I fail to see the perceived benefit.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Trivial on August 23, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone? 
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Eater of Clowns on August 23, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: Trivial <insert joke> on August 23, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone?

Idris Elba maybe?
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Cain on August 23, 2016, 02:22:12 AM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 23, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: Trivial <insert joke> on August 23, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone?

Idris Elba maybe?

James Bond is a norse god?

Actually, that makes a level of sense...the drinking, fighting and womanising are the last things a covert agent should be doing.  A viking covert agent, however...
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 23, 2016, 02:57:57 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2016, 02:22:12 AM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 23, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: Trivial <insert joke> on August 23, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone?

Idris Elba maybe?

James Bond is a norse god?

Actually, that makes a level of sense...the drinking, fighting and womanising are the last things a covert agent should be doing.  A viking covert agent, however...

I quite like this angle.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 23, 2016, 03:01:05 AM
I've encountered a number of Odinists who are racist, and a number who are not. I like old, ancestrally-based religions, so I'm excited to see the temple and I think the idea is beautiful. Of course, I have ALL the ancestors, so I'm biased.

SUCK IT, SINGLE-RACE ANCESTOR WORSHIPERS!
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: LMNO on August 23, 2016, 04:35:24 AM
I LOVE THREADS LIKE THIS YOU ARE ALL WONEROUSLY MARVALOUS (SP) AND NEVER CHANGE ANY OF YOU UNLESS YOU WANT TO BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE RUDE OF ME AND I MAY BE HIGH.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Because why? Are we going to pretend that this is anything other than the same woo in a different suit?
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Cain on August 23, 2016, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Good.  If we let Pagans start dictating terms, next they'll be demanding equal rights, or the vote.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2016, 02:22:12 AM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on August 23, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: Trivial <insert joke> on August 23, 2016, 12:53:50 AM
Could someone make the white power people stop ruining norse gods for everyone?

Idris Elba maybe?

James Bond is a norse god?

Actually, that makes a level of sense...the drinking, fighting and womanising are the last things a covert agent should be doing.  A viking covert agent, however...

"Bjornsson, jarn bjornsson"
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2016, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Good.  If we let Pagans start dictating terms, next they'll be demanding equal rights, or the vote.

Have you ever dealt with a pagan in a workplace? Terrible useless bastardy to a man in my experience.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Cain on August 23, 2016, 11:57:58 AM
Fortunately no.  However. my University did have a Pagan society, which I briefly trolled IRL, and of course there was our years long campaigns against Mysticwicks and The Celtic Connection.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
They tend to work in an escalating bullshit style. The star ring usually appears first. Then whining about being a persecuted minority when you tell them to drop the ring because it's a good way to lose a finger.

Incompetence and laziness are the general watchwords.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Suu on August 23, 2016, 04:16:41 PM
Evidently white supremacy has been grasping at straws a lot lately. As of last night, 3 of my medieval groups on Facebook were infiltrated with members of a group looking to "recruit" for a new "crusade" based on the "fact" that white Europeans had the power in the Middle Ages and we should bring that back. The posts were all deleted really fast before I got a chance for a screenshot, but this is becoming a frequent thing.

Like I said, these fucking idiots have never cracked a book in their lives. Ever. But in Trump's AmericaTM, they won't have to, because they have all the facts, and we can just change the books to fit our needs.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 23, 2016, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

I can't be expected to keep all that shit straight.

There's only one question:  Do they worship their Sky Daddy properly, or are they "working with him?"  Because if it's the latter, they go into the box with the Wiccans and the Eclectics. 

I didn't write the book, I just enforce it.

Also, I have some information at home as to the crazytown pseudo-Asutru racist geeks.  I'll post it this evening.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 06:57:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2016, 10:35:21 PM
It appears to be a venture by a Jim Lyngvild, a fashion critic, writer of fantasy novels and social media narcissist in Denmark

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lyngvild&prev=search

http://cphpost.dk/news/who-is/who-is-jim-lyngvild.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/169683/islamization-copenhagen-bruce-bawer (note: Bawer is one of the many sources cited by Breivik's manifesto, nevertheless there is an interesting anecdote further down)

It seems, on early inspection, that this isn't organised Odinist white power stuff...but Lyngvild isn't exactly a man of character or high moral standing either, and may be unwittingly enabling racism due to his status.

Had a quick look at Lyngvild, seems to be an openly gay man. This would indicate him being towards the "less terrible" end of the scale because at least he's unlikely to hold crazy opinions about gay people. With any luck that applies to other concerns too but I wouldn't put money on it yet. Roger's probably found some horrible insane crap.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 23, 2016, 07:01:06 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2016, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Good.  If we let Pagans start dictating terms, next they'll be demanding equal rights, or the vote.

Have you ever dealt with a pagan in a workplace? Terrible useless bastardy to a man in my experience.

I know of one Wiccan who works like a mad bastard.  But she doesn't talk about her beliefs, and I found out entirely by accident.  Which leads me to suspect that there may be other Wiccans who aren't useless hippies.  This thought, of course, fills me with rage because it upsets the underpinnings of one of the very few things I thought I knew for sure.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 23, 2016, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 06:57:54 PM
Roger's probably found some horrible insane crap.

It's kind of what I do.

Anyway, the group I am referring to was listed in Warren Ellis's Bad World, which led to an internet search, which in turn led to hilarity.

The gripe the people in question seem to have is that they feel persecuted as white males, despite having the best deal ever.  This in turn led them to believe that the good old days of axes and shield-biting would - if playacted in the modern world - reassert their no-chin, snaggle-toothed manhood.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 07:07:34 PM
Behold, my face of total and utter surprise.

Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Suu on August 23, 2016, 08:28:22 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2016, 11:49:39 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Good.  If we let Pagans start dictating terms, next they'll be demanding equal rights, or the vote.

Have you ever dealt with a pagan in a workplace? Terrible useless bastardy to a man in my experience.

I only worked with one self-identifying Wiccan, and she was, and still is, one of the sweetest people I know. Never mentioned it unless someone brought it up.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 24, 2016, 01:47:44 AM
The group I was thinking of is called "Solarian Sodality".

Founded by some guy named Marcus Geist.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Cain on August 24, 2016, 01:10:28 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 06:57:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 22, 2016, 10:35:21 PM
It appears to be a venture by a Jim Lyngvild, a fashion critic, writer of fantasy novels and social media narcissist in Denmark

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=da&u=https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lyngvild&prev=search

http://cphpost.dk/news/who-is/who-is-jim-lyngvild.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/169683/islamization-copenhagen-bruce-bawer (note: Bawer is one of the many sources cited by Breivik's manifesto, nevertheless there is an interesting anecdote further down)

It seems, on early inspection, that this isn't organised Odinist white power stuff...but Lyngvild isn't exactly a man of character or high moral standing either, and may be unwittingly enabling racism due to his status.

Had a quick look at Lyngvild, seems to be an openly gay man. This would indicate him being towards the "less terrible" end of the scale because at least he's unlikely to hold crazy opinions about gay people. With any luck that applies to other concerns too but I wouldn't put money on it yet. Roger's probably found some horrible insane crap.

You would think so, but I would like to point to the recent career of one Milo Yiannopoulos, also openly gay, has often spoken of his love for "big black dick" and helped write a love letter to the alt-right for Breitbart.com.  He also assures people that being gay is a choice and that it's perfectly alright to refer to people as faggots.
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: Pergamos on August 24, 2016, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Because why? Are we going to pretend that this is anything other than the same woo in a different suit?

Because not like Wiccans I think. 
Title: Re: Pagan or Racist?
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on August 25, 2016, 01:02:32 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 24, 2016, 10:35:42 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 23, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 23, 2016, 05:52:50 AM
All the Asatru I have met, some of whom were racist and some of whom were not, would be offended at being called Pagan.  They're Heathen or Asatru,  I don't think they want to share an umbrella term with the Wiccans.

Because why? Are we going to pretend that this is anything other than the same woo in a different suit?

Because not like Wiccans I think.

Yeah?  Explain the functional difference.