HA HA! I am a genius!
Anyway, that aside, I was searching through some very old and dull copies of the American Journal of Archaeology, when I found a very interesting article in Volume 30, Issue 3 of the publication (July - September 1930).
David M Robinson, the writer of the piece, was given an Attic pinax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinax) depicting both of the Erites, dating from the sixth century BC.
That it and of itself is very rare. Most pottery of this period is Corinthian or Rhodian, Attican regional pottery is quite unusual. But pieces of art depicting either aspect of Eris (the Strifebringer or Eris of Competition) are not normally seen until the late Classical or early Hellenistic Period, being made more popular as she was via the work of Euripides.
More interesting, the pottery itself. Firstly, there is no doubt the figure is that of Eris. If the black skin and wings were not enough, the artist himself inscribed Eris on the front of the pinax. The back is harder to read, but it could say 'Epiov, "for the shrine of the Strifes." Equally, it could read Strife against Strife, or the Strife of Competition, but one must consider another fact.
Pinax's were hung in temples, as votive offerings. Especially pinax's with two suspension holes. It is also believed the same artist has done other works, found in Delos and the Acropolis (fragments). These do not depict either of the Erites, but the style of drawing, as well as colouration and themes, would suggest a common source. These works also had the same suspension holes and were found in Temples
The only other depictions of Eris we know of are on a chest in Corinth (Chest of Cypselus) and in the sanctuary of Artemis at Ephesus. There is also the sanctuary of Ares at Athens, where there is an image of Enyo, made by the sons of Praxiteles. But none of these are pinax's, and most depict Eris as a ghastly figure, which this artwork does not do. It would seem then that Eris was considered somewhat acceptable in Attica, in stark contrast to Corinth and the Ionian cities.
Other things to note about this is the animal symbols used to depict Eris. We have the hare, for the Eris of Competition, and the snake for the Eris of strife. Throw in Robert Graves' thinking on Blackthorn being another symbol of Eris and perhaps we have the start of some interesting symbology here, not normally assosciated with unworshipped Goddesses.
If anyone knows how to rip images from pdf format, please tell me. I have tried copy and paste into paint, but that seems to fail. If I can, I will get the images and post them up here.
Finally, I will end with a free verse adaption of the tale of the two Erites told in Hesiod, transformed by the article writer into modern English.
Beneath the age-long, far-flung strife of man
With man over the whole wide earth lurk two
Strife sisters. They are not twin, yet must be kin.
Blameless and beautiful the first and great,
Not to the crass and heavy mind that stands
Far off: but, closely known and understood,
Fair as a daughter of the gods to whom
Men make their songs of worship and of praise.
But not like-minded is the other one.
In human hearts she is the power behind
The throne and shapes its whispers, urging on
The ugly crash of battle axes sharp,
With clash of splintering spears in evil war.
O dark and strange her sway. Men love her not,
Yet some dark mystic spell from deathless gods
Her hateful name a noisy honor lends.
Not so that other, elder daughter, true:
Born from the travail of Dark Night, seized by
The Son of Kronos, waiting in the thin
And shadowy ether there and rushed to earth
By him and set beside the secret roots
Of human life on earth, she tends them well
And upward sends her kindly influence
Through all the branching sap of the great tree
Of men in every land and clime and time.
And when Ambition stirs some shiftless churl
To toil, or when a working neighbor shames
Some sluggard from his lazy bed, 'tis she
Who starts the effective thrill that makes him leap.
The rich man ploughs and plants, fully his house
Is filled, all things in order stored. Neighbor
With neighbor vies in hot and wholesome chase,
For all substantial gain. Potter competes
With potter, craft with craft, until we see
Beggar with beggar strive better to beg.
At last the minstrel feels the jealous sting
Some other singer's sweeter song inspires.
0 Better Strife, up from Thy secret seat
Beside the roots of life sending to men
The inspirations for this peaceful war,
Great is thy name, goodly thy fame!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/discordman/forumspecific/mittenspixelated.jpg)
great find, Cain!
as for PDFs - if you send them to me I can print them and then scan them into TIF, but only in black and white. The printers and scanners here are pretty high quality.
Have you tried screencapping and pasting into paint? Or was that what you tried which didn't work?
For grabbing images from PDF, if all else fails, you can take a screenshot and then cut out the bits you want to keep.
Also... nice!!! I like the association of Chaos/Strife as competition, that fits nominally with the whole Creative Chaos bit.
Cram and Rata: Actually, no, that never occured.
:facepalm:
I'll do that now, and see if the quality is decent enough. The photos are in black and white anyway, so if they don't come out as well as I would like, I'll pass them along to you, Cram.
They should appear exactly (or damn close) to the quality you're seeing... thats the good stuff about digital ;-)
Is Eris actually meant to be black, then?
All art I've seen of her has her as pale... and with either red or blonde hair.
True, though apparently multiple transfers of images can affect their clarity...its not something I've especially noticed, but it is said to happen.
Anyway, the Erites themselves
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/4886/erite1rd8.jpg)
The bottom of the plate
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/5315/erite2pn8.png)
The other works of the "Strife Painter"
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5861/strifepainterotherworksbt2.png)
*fap* *fap* *fap* *fap* *fap*
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 05:00:06 PM
Is Eris actually meant to be black, then?
All art I've seen of her has her as pale... and with either red or blonde hair.
In traditional Greek drawings, she is black with wings. Or some sort of hideous hag.
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 05:04:59 PM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 05:00:06 PM
Is Eris actually meant to be black, then?
All art I've seen of her has her as pale... and with either red or blonde hair.
In traditional Greek drawings, she is black with wings. Or some sort of hideous hag.
The modern PD based Eris is usually the sexy redhead for a couple reasons, much of which has to do with her portrayal in Illuminatus! wherein she appears as most of the female characters but her 'true form' often appears as a redhead.
<i>"Actually, the idea had been subtly planted in her consciousness by the leader of her Wiccan, an astonishingly beautiful woman with flaming red hair and smoldering green eyes who had once played a starring role in a Black Mass celebrated by Padre Pederastia at 2323 Lake Shore Drive."</i> - Illuminatus
According to the PD itself, Eris claims that the Greeks feared her because they misunderstood her (well, apparently everyone except for the People In The Attic) and thus they made her look scary.
I wonder if the Attican description differed due to the status of Athens as a trading power? Obviously, naval trade was vital to their empire and long a component of local culture. Competition would be considered a good thing, since it spurred Athenians on to create more music, more plays, more poetry, better soliders and better philosophy, laying the groundwork for Classical culture.
I know Verthaine believes market sellers would often say prayers to Eris to bring luck in their dealings that day, so it would seem a natural extension.
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 05:12:49 PM
I wonder if the Attican description differed due to the status of Athens as a trading power? Obviously, naval trade was vital to their empire and long a component of local culture. Competition would be considered a good thing, since it spurred Athenians on to create more music, more plays, more poetry, better soliders and better philosophy, laying the groundwork for Classical culture.
I know Verthaine believes market sellers would often say prayers to Eris to bring luck in their dealings that day, so it would seem a natural extension.
Wouldn't that be a great laugh if we pieced together the worship of Eris and the groundwork for Classical culture? After all, she's already pretty embedded in the Modern Counterculture, so why not the Classical Culture?
She's "The Man" that she has us fighting!!! OMG!
OFUK!
Well, you have to remember, most revolutionaries are middle class (even Communist ones. Especially Communist ones), and the American revolutionaries took their ideas from theoriests like Adam Smith....who promoted free trade to improve competition. In fact, the middle class would not likely exist today if not for the allowance of lower classes to econimocally compete, meaning competition helped bring them into being.
o_O
And Charles Darwin made baby Jesus cry by suggesting that biodiversity exists because of competition, and not because of God's wuv.
Kansas has laws against making baby Jesus cry, I think.
When you consider that the British retreat from The North Bridge in Concord happened on 4-20-1775 and the first congressional army was raised in Mass on 4-23 I think its obvious.
LOL23OMGZ!
Nice find Cain.
:mittens:
Thanks. I'm talking about this with Bantuathaid on EB&G, and she reckons this evidence is conclusive enough even for Pagan Reconstructionists. Which is very interesting. Admittedly we still know virtually nothing about what her worship would actually entail, though some Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis may come into play at some point (hell, I'll give it a go, if I get bored enough).
Cain, even hearing second hand about you possibly receiving Gnosis is enough to give me an erection.
Quote from: LMNO on October 11, 2007, 07:13:14 PM
Cain, even hearing second hand about you possibly receiving Gnosis is enough to give me an erection.
Personally, I think that is Recon speak for intuition and making it up. The trick is to do tons of research into the other religions, social norms etc and then "guess" how a ritual would go.
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 11, 2007, 07:13:14 PM
Cain, even hearing second hand about you possibly receiving Gnosis is enough to give me an erection.
Personally, I think that is Recon speak for intuition and making it up. The trick is to do tons of research into the other religions, social norms etc and then "guess" how a ritual would go.
Hey! Stop giving away SSOOKN secrets!
Quote from: LMNO on October 11, 2007, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 11, 2007, 07:13:14 PM
Cain, even hearing second hand about you possibly receiving Gnosis is enough to give me an erection.
Personally, I think that is Recon speak for intuition and making it up. The trick is to do tons of research into the other religions, social norms etc and then "guess" how a ritual would go.
Hey! Stop giving away SSOOKN secrets!
It's ok. Everytime someone reveals one of our secrets, I contact the 'secret chiefs of the great white brotherhood' and they give me new ones.
Then I take the 'old' secrets and make them part of the outer order, low level teachings and reserve all the really new, secret cool stuff for the higher adepts.
Metaphysical conveyor belt baby!
Oh, SWEET!
Quote from: LMNO on October 11, 2007, 07:26:43 PM
Oh, SWEET!
I stole the idea from a Golden Dawn website.
:mrgreen:
Cain, I admire you. This has certainly made my day. 'Nuff said.
Cain, you are my fucking hero. No joke.
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 05:00:06 PM
Is Eris actually meant to be black, then?
All art I've seen of her has her as pale... and with either red or blonde hair.
I've seen lots of ancient Greek pieces of art which depict figures as black who probably weren't, Herakles and Orpheus to name two examples . . . and the image of Eris I use on my blog doesn't depict her as either black or hideous . . . at least I don't consider her hideous here . . . In fact she looks a lot like contemporary images of Kleopatra . . . http://baronvonhoopla.blogspot.com (http://baronvonhoopla.blogspot.com)
Also: Anyone know if Blackthorn is easy to obtain, I mean in a store, or is it pretty rare in the landmass commonly referred to as North America?
Hoops, it looks like it's both native to Europe, and more shrub-like, so I'm guessing it's not that easy to find.
But I'd go to a greenhouse/landscaper and ask, just to be sure.
You forgot the depiction of Enyo on the Pergammon Altar Freeze (sp), amongst the other gods, fighting the titans, spear in one hand, about to stab a frightened beast-titan held in the other.
White marble, though, so no color.
Edit: Altar wasn't found in Greece, but Asia Minor.
But that was a decorative piece, and not actually tied in ritually to any sort of religious ceremony. Also, it was Asia Minor, where they had funny ideas anyway (lots of cultural crossover).
Yeah, realized that AFTER I posted....
Well, it WAS an altar to the gods, so maybe not just a decorative piece.
Good find Cain, in any case. Its something you've suspected all along.
Shit, Cain...if you got some sort of Gnosis, I would totally buy a Lyre and write music for it.
And by it, I mean, whatever ceremonies you think up.
I've never seen Her associated with a hare.
Interesting find Cain!
Watership Down?
I think that if Eris worship involved the moon or the night then it could be that the Greeks saw a hare in the patterns on the moon. Also the mother of Eris in some schools of thought is the night or Nyx. That could be why the hare is associated with her, I've seen many depictions of the moon in mythology that coincide with that of a hare. Just a thought. I'm a real dork for mythology :lol:
Quote from: Mother John Frumm on October 13, 2007, 02:36:49 AM
I think that if Eris worship involved the moon or the night then it could be that the Greeks saw a hare in the patterns on the moon. Also the mother of Eris in some schools of thought is the night or Nyx. That could be why the hare is associated with her, I've seen many depictions of the moon in mythology that coincide with that of a hare. Just a thought. I'm a real dork for mythology :lol:
I think it has more to do with the speed and cunning of a hare, as would be in exercises of competition. The reason for the snake is obvious.
I'm not doubting that, however in religious context things are rarely obvious. Most gods and goddesses are collections of older gods and goddesses that were absorbed and filtered by time. The Eris of today is not the dame from the Greeks, she has a lot of the same characteristics however people have absorbed and added apocrypha to the canon.
Often the hare represents fertility, lust and regeneration, the moon is thought to represent most of those same things. It seems very likely that any worship of the night, (Nyx) may have well included Eris in the Chthonic times. The hare could also represent Aphrodite, whom Eris has an indirect relationship with.
Aphrodite was a known lover of Ares, Eris associates with him in like interests of war and chaos, or is in some stories his sister. Also in the more well know story of the golden apple, which I will not bother going into, Aphrodite is the "winner" of said apple.
Eris was also know as Enyo, which is the name of one of the Graeae or the Grey Sisters who were pre-Olympic. She was called "the horror" and "the waster of cities".
She resembles the Erinyes who were female personifications of vengeance, they were also know to be the children of Nyx. The Erinyes were connected with Nemesis (another child of Nyx and possibly yet another facet of Eris).They were similar to the Gorgons with the depiction of the wings as well as the stance in pottery like this representation of Eris. The Gorgons have an obvious link to the snake too.
When it comes to the analysis of religions it is rarely cut and dry.
pardon the mental masturbation
:boot:
Quote from: Mother John Frumm on October 13, 2007, 05:46:53 AM
I'm not doubting that, however in religious context things are rarely obvious. Most gods and goddesses are collections of older gods and goddesses that were absorbed and filtered by time. The Eris of today is not the dame from the Greeks, she has a lot of the same characteristics however people have absorbed and added apocrypha to the canon.
Often the hare represents fertility, lust and regeneration, the moon is thought to represent most of those same things. It seems very likely that any worship of the night, (Nyx) may have well included Eris in the Chthonic times. The hare could also represent Aphrodite, whom Eris has an indirect relationship with.
Aphrodite was a known lover of Ares, Eris associates with him in like interests of war and chaos, or is in some stories his sister. Also in the more well know story of the golden apple, which I will not bother going into, Aphrodite is the "winner" of said apple.
Eris was also know as Enyo, which is the name of one of the Graeae or the Grey Sisters who were pre-Olympic. She was called "the horror" and "the waster of cities".
She resembles the Erinyes who were female personifications of vengeance, they were also know to be the children of Nyx. The Erinyes were connected with Nemesis (another child of Nyx and possibly yet another facet of Eris).They were similar to the Gorgons with the depiction of the wings as well as the stance in pottery like this representation of Eris. The Gorgons have an obvious link to the snake too.
When it comes to the analysis of religions it is rarely cut and dry.
pardon the mental masturbation
I didn't consider the Gorgon connection. Thanks.
Quote from: Mother John Frumm on October 13, 2007, 05:46:53 AM
I'm not doubting that, however in religious context things are rarely obvious. Most gods and goddesses are collections of older gods and goddesses that were absorbed and filtered by time. The Eris of today is not the dame from the Greeks, she has a lot of the same characteristics however people have absorbed and added apocrypha to the canon.
Often the hare represents fertility, lust and regeneration, the moon is thought to represent most of those same things. It seems very likely that any worship of the night, (Nyx) may have well included Eris in the Chthonic times. The hare could also represent Aphrodite, whom Eris has an indirect relationship with.
Aphrodite was a known lover of Ares, Eris associates with him in like interests of war and chaos, or is in some stories his sister. Also in the more well know story of the golden apple, which I will not bother going into, Aphrodite is the "winner" of said apple.
Eris was also know as Enyo, which is the name of one of the Graeae or the Grey Sisters who were pre-Olympic. She was called "the horror" and "the waster of cities".
She resembles the Erinyes who were female personifications of vengeance, they were also know to be the children of Nyx. The Erinyes were connected with Nemesis (another child of Nyx and possibly yet another facet of Eris).They were similar to the Gorgons with the depiction of the wings as well as the stance in pottery like this representation of Eris. The Gorgons have an obvious link to the snake too.
When it comes to the analysis of religions it is rarely cut and dry.
pardon the mental masturbation
Interesting stuff. The link between hare and moon is somewhat weak, but no more so than any other conclusions you would draw from this, so I am willing to roll with it for now.
And yes, there is a definite Eris/Aphrodite connection. The strife of love is a common theme in Greek mythology (I can only think of one happy marriage, that of Odysseus and Penelope), also Aphrodite is said to have a dual nature: she can be moderate and calm or wild and passionate. Rather like Eris can be competitive or destructive. The Iphigeneia at Aulis makes the connection explicit with this phrase concerning the Judgement of Paris:
Eros you imparted, by eros you were overwhelmed.
Hence Eris, Eris brings Greece with men and ships
to the citadel of Troy.
by love you were imparted and overwhelmed, thus by strife you war.
cool.
Quote from: maphdet on October 13, 2007, 12:24:36 AM
I've never seen Her associated with a hare.
Interesting find Cain!
I can't believe nobody has put this connection together yet . . .
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5036/bugsox2.jpg)
sorry to spoil the fun, but isn't that reference just something RAW made up to connect shoggoths with bugs bunny and the Illuminatus?
Yes.
I was also going to point out he was a wascally wabbit, but in fact he was originally drawn as a hare.
Quote from: triple zero on October 14, 2007, 07:46:45 PM
sorry to spoil the fun, but isn't that reference just something RAW made up to connect shoggoths with bugs bunny and the Illuminatus?
Your point?
Quote from: LMNO on October 12, 2007, 01:25:05 PM
Hoops, it looks like it's both native to Europe, and more shrub-like, so I'm guessing it's not that easy to find.
That's what I suspected. Even if I went to Europe I doubt I'd be able to differentiate from any other plant. They all look alike to me . . . I know, I know, it isn't PC of me to admit that, but its true. I'm a Chlorophyll Nazi.
Hey Cain, I think they have Blackthorn in England and Scotland, no? Care to send me some?
:aaa::1fap:
So what happened with the pictures of the pinax?
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 14, 2007, 07:46:45 PM
sorry to spoil the fun, but isn't that reference just something RAW made up to connect shoggoths with bugs bunny and the Illuminatus?
Are you quite certain?