Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: LMNO on May 12, 2006, 11:59:28 PM

Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 12, 2006, 11:59:28 PM
This is for Wolfie, Kai, and any other Noobs.  

O anonymous Modz, could you sticky it?

So, welcome into the bosom of that crazy bitch Eris.  The house is a bit of a mess, we're planning a party.  Well, it's sort of a jail break.  It's a long story.

Anyway, this would be a good a time as ever to discuss the groundwork behind the ancient, decades-old religion of Erisianism.  Some of the crankier old people around here won't touch the stuff, but others (like myself) get off on it.

To business!  Let us discuss the following:


1.  There is no goddess but Eris, and she is your goddess.
2.  Eris is chaos; chaos is Universe.
3.  What we consider Order, or Negative Entropy, is fleeting at best, and at worst, a purely human/social construct, one which Eris laughs at us as we encounter things that simply make no sense.
4.  Order and Chaos always balance... The imposition of order = the escalation of disorder, and vice versa.
5.  There is order; there is disorder.  There is creation; there is destruction.  The old chart had this laid out in a 4-box grid, to show that the both the creative and the destructive contain order and disorder, and that embracing the creative seems to be a better option.  This has been expanded into the New Chart:

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5363/newpdchart15no.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

And should be contemplated deeply before venturing into any activity.

6.  Greyface is the imposer of sin and guilt; he is the one who taught us that chaos is negative, that only Pure Order is righteous.  he is severely out of whack, and as Discordians, we do what we can to correct his errors.
7.  We are all free.  The lies we tell ourselves to make it through the day are naught to Eris, she has given us the power to cast off our self-imposed shackles, to say "no" to the Grey, and to put mayo into the machine.

This is as good a starting point as any.  Let those who are willing to talk shop about Eris post here; if you don't believe, then don't post.


LMNO
-Extending a hand.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Scribbly on May 13, 2006, 12:03:48 AM
That is a very nice, shiny new chart.

And thanks for the thread LMNO, when I can think straight I'll post something more constructive in it!  :D
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Cain on May 13, 2006, 12:08:29 AM
Should I throw out the quotes about the old Eris/Enyo here?  Or shall we have a new thread?

Cain,
could quite easily create a Neo-Pagan version of Erisianism if he cared to.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: deet on May 13, 2006, 12:09:01 AM
Imposition of Order, results in escalation of Disorder.

Negative entropy results in imposition of order, results in escalation of disorder which in turn creates entropy.

The more you learn, the more ordered your life becomes. Which in turn, causes you to go further from your intellectual/psychological comfort zone, creating more disorder in your life.

Which in turn creates the desire for more stability, which requires more knowledge, and then we go from there.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Cain on May 13, 2006, 12:13:02 AM
My personal thoughts on chaos.

Chaos is a fundamental state of nature.  Humans invent philosophies and systems to try and create order (to influence or control) out of it.  Problem: human perception is faulty.  The system of order builds up "friction" as it interacts with the reality that is chaos.  Disorder is the friction.  Opposing systems also cause much more friction.  However, the end result is the breakdown of any system that is not organically created as part of the chaotic whole.  This can be seen in all normative philosophies in particular, such as Communism, Islam or any ideology/religion that proscribes certain behaviour.

In short.

(Thank you Clausewitz)
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:13:03 AM
Quote from: deetImposition of Order, results in escalation of Disorder.

Negative entropy results in imposition of order, results in escalation of disorder which in turn creates entropy.

The more you learn, the more ordered your life becomes. Which in turn, causes you to go further from your intellectual/psychological comfort zone, creating more disorder in your life.

Which in turn creates the desire for more stability, which requires more knowledge, and then we go from there.

Indeed.  In fact, one could say that the very act of creation relys on mxing the ordered with the disordered.

Example: To write a poem, one must first use the Rules of Language; then, break those rules and add uncertainty to the form.

Cain, I think rather than raw history (rather than R.A.W. history), this thread should be for the 20th century Erisian thoughts/concepts.

But I don't want to be facistic or anything.  Post what you feel is appropriate.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:14:44 AM
LMNO, this is perhaps the single greatest post, from my perpscetive, i have read here. my thanks..... now to business.

...........................................................................................................

I awoke this morning to witness a strange figure at my bed. But then in a flash of light i did recognise her. The Archangel Eris in a Nun outfit, and she did speak to me....

"Behold for I am.... wearing a Nun outfit? What the fuck?."

In a trembling voice I did respond.

"Well I'm a Catholic, I either manifest you in a Nun outfit or the convent school look and well I've fucked convent girls, never fucked a Nun."

And the Archangel Eris did smile knowingly.

"Your not fucking this one either, now listen up laddie."

I shall write the revelations of eris in laymen's terms for the un-rightous to understand.

Ok i came to discordianism from a catholic background. A repressive, hide-bound and order obsessed culture. However the added benefit of doing what you want and saying sorry afterwards did help allot with the old teen-guilt-angst in my younger days.

Now I'm searching for a different way, a way of balance. I have always understood life has to be 50/50 but never found a way for that to be achieved in hidebound religion

I want a certain amount of order in my life, anarchy is just plain boring but i want freedom.

Now how can Discordianism help me acheive this?

That is pretty much my operating statement.

What i have learned so far:

1) The Archangel Eris doesn't give a damn about any of this shit.

2) If she did give a damn we'd be looking for somebody else anyway.

3) That is precisely the point.

4) It's when we stop caring about all the little things that rule and regiment our lives we begin to understand free will. Anybody can claim to have free will but be shackled by all the little things they don't realise have them in chains.

Ok am i right so far or am i so far off the track i need to be dragged back kicking and screaming?
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: WolfpoetLMNO, this is perhaps the single greatest post, from my perpscetive, i have read here. my thanks..... now to business.

...........................................................................................................

I awoke this morning to witness a strange figure at my bed. But then in a flash of light i did recognise her. The Archangel Eris in a Nun outfit, and she did speak to me....

"Behold for I am.... wearing a Nun outfit? What the fuck?."

In a trembling voice I did respond.

"Well I'm a Catholic, I either manifest you in a Nun outfit or the convent school look and well I've fucked convent girls, never fucked a Nun."

And the Archangel Eris did smile knowingly.

"Your not fucking this one either, now listen up laddie."

I shall write the revelations of eris in laymen's terms for the un-rightous to understand.

Ok i came to discordianism from a catholic background. A repressive, hide-bound and order obsessed culture. However the added benefit of doing what you want and saying sorry afterwards did help allot with the old teen-guilt-angst in my younger days.

Now I'm searching for a different way, a way of balance. I have always understood life has to be 50/50 but never found a way for that to be achieved in hidebound religion

I want a certain amount of order in my life, anarchy is just plain boring but i want freedom.

Now how can Discordianism help me acheive this?

That is pretty much my operating statement.

What i have learned so far:

1) The Archangel Eris doesn't give a damn about any of this shit.

2) If she did give a damn we'd be looking for somebody else anyway.

3) That is precisely the point.

4) It's when we stop caring about all the little things that rule and regiment our lives we begin to understand free will. Anybody can claim to have free will but be shackled by all the little things they don't realise have them in chains.

Ok am i right so far or am i so far off the track i need to be dragged back kicking and screaming?


Nope.  Please to Cf: http://principiadiscordia.com/book/45.php , the sermon on Ethics and Love.

To sum up:

"Eris!  My life is shit!"

"Isn't that what you wanted?"

"NO!"

"Oh.  Well, then change it."


You've got the sheet music, let's see if we can get a tune outta that motherfucker.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:23:55 AM
Ok so we are talking about actualy exercising free will rather than preaching it.

Taking responsibility for our own actions.

If life is shit get off your fucking arse and change it?

That sort of jazz?
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:24:57 AM
Starting with the basics so i know I'm on the same song sheet. before I tackle the complicated and confusing shit.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:29:16 AM
The short version, yes.

Although, it's much easier to say than to do.

After all, the chains we have bound ourselves with have been with us since birth (practically).  Not to mention, after we (hopefully) get rid of most of our psychological, emotional, and social chains, we still have to contend with the fact that our very instruments of perception are flawed and give us incomplete, and erroneous signals.  These are the most insidious chains, for we must constantly doubt what we are sensing, to a degree.

Although, this could descend into solipsism, and bring about the Barstool Experiment.

Which brings us to Maybe Logic. There's a whole thread or two started by LHX in Or Kill Me dealing with this. I suggest you go look for it.



Oh, and by the way, if you thing this is the best thread ever posted, you can subscribe to all my Lectures on Eris, starting at the low low price of $59.95* per lecture.  Subscribe today!








*Prices may be subject to change, depending on your gullibility.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:32:20 AM
So Discordianism is at it;s heart challenging our very perceptions. Since they are flawed, we look through beer glasses pretty much.

The idea is to remove the beer glasses and look at life clearly not througha  perception clouded by our programming.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Cain on May 13, 2006, 12:33:16 AM
Quote from: WolfpoetSo Discordianism is at it;s heart challenging our very perceptions. Since they are flawed, we look through beer glasses pretty much.

The idea is to remove the beer glasses and look at life clearly not througha  perception clouded by our programming.

Thats pretty much how I see it.  Not telling people how to act, just seeing how the world is and working from there.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LHX on May 13, 2006, 12:35:50 AM
maybe some people seem bitter and jaded because the element that is trying to impose order on us is a little more tenacious and crafty than we would like it to be

and although we can conceptualize how to handle it on paper

having that manifest on this planet is a different story



i can only speak for myself personally
but
this is taking every ounce of effort and discipline that i can muster up to show and prove that imposing order and submitting to order is not the right thing to do


i try to keep my shit light-hearted
but
i dont keep making posts about jail and death just for kicks



the reason we come down hard on a lot of people
is because we know how easy it is to get stuck


while people are sitting around saying hail eris
there is somebody hard at work on an advertising campaign to get you to buy the Next Big Thing,Ñ¢
and keep you in line


the elements that we face dont take time off

they dont even sleep at night


this whole shit might be the biggest joke of all
but
its dead serious right now
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:36:50 AM
Quote from: WolfpoetSo Discordianism is at it;s heart challenging our very perceptions. Since they are flawed, we look through beer glasses pretty much.

The idea is to remove the beer glasses and look at life clearly not througha  perception clouded by our programming.


Yes and no.

Yes, Erisianism (I make a distiction, others don't) challenges the perceptions that have trapped you in the Black Iron Prison of your Reality Tunnel/Grid/Map.

No, in that the idea is to realize you can never take off the beer goggles.  Your very biology makes that impossible.

And knowing that sets you off into the Agnosticism of the physicists, into the void of Reletavism.  After all, if you can't be 100% sure of every single Dammned thing you're sensing, how can you be 100% sure of anything?


99% sure, fine.  But 100%? Never.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:38:43 AM
Quote from: LHXwhile people are sitting around saying hail eris
there is somebody hard at work on an advertising campaign to get you to buy the Next Big Thing,Ñ¢
and keep you in line



::Nominates this for Post of the Day::
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:41:41 AM
I can see where your coming from.

My own expereince with the Army shows allot of this.

I get allot of lads coming into the shop and buying up the booze, I'm a caring bloke and these guys are not customers they are friends. So I tend to chat, amazing what a man will say when he's drunk.

They feel trapped in a system they can't escape. Signed up for a certain term, sure there is a way out, they can sign off and many do. But is it realy an option? The whole system beats down on them, giving them a 101 reasons to stay in and  using every tool in the book to keep them.

So they are in a system they hate, doing things they hate and not seeing any way out because the very system of the army reinforces the view there is NO WAY OUT. To the point where the simple act of signing off and getting out of the army is no longer an option because their perceptions have been so fucked up they don't se eit as an option anymore.

So they steadily drink themselves to death.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LHX on May 13, 2006, 12:44:17 AM
we dont want nobody to drink theyself to death
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:44:49 AM
...And Graud the Greyface chalks up another Citizen as Doing the Right Thing.


They don't see how simply saying "no" could free them.

Or, they're terrified of the uncertainty.

When one is more comfortable with the known torture than the unknown possibilities... Well, around here, we call them Cabbages.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:46:37 AM
And so the aim is not to tell the Soldier to quit.

"Hey mate, your a fucking moron! Sign that line and get your arse out of the army!"

The aim is to make him realise why he hasn't signed that line, lift the false perceptions so he has the freedom to make up his own mind for himself.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LHX on May 13, 2006, 12:49:37 AM
now we gettin progressive


plus

he can carry the lesson on to his next experience




'teach a man to fish'
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:51:37 AM
Yup.  Making him quit would be imposing your will on the poor bastard.

What you want to do is help him impose his will on himself.

After all, we (unfortunately) need an army; some people enjoy it.  Some people freely choose and thrive in it.  Some are actually true warriors, compassionate people who know that fighting & killing truly are the Final Option, to be used only when there is no other choice.  

They are Free.  You are Free.  We are Free.


But sometimes, it's really hard to see that.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 12:54:16 AM
I'm begining to click here. It's all concepts I've always sort of held but never put into quite the same ways you guys do.

I read the PD, figured out from it what I thought it meant and tried to articulate it here and walked into waht seemd liek a brick wall.

You guys saw a noob who knew jackshit, i saw a bunch of jaded bastards who didn't care.

Now we are getting the middle ground to link the two.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 12:57:41 AM
Yeah, sorry about that.  I think you showed up at a time when a lot of us Old Cranky Bastards were looking ahead, and weren't really thinking about where we came from.


A true initiation never ends, You can change your cell, but you can't escape the Black Iron Prison, the chains never come off, etc etc.


LMNO
-May be a hypocrite, but at least owns it.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 01:03:44 AM
I think maybe it's a good time for folks like me, kai-Wren and lady Godiva to show up.

We can help you "cranky old bastards" look ahead. The thing si to look at us not as noobs but as the people your looking ahead at.

We are you guinea pigs guys!

This thread LMNO has managed in the space of one evening to change how i think about you lot and this forum. I was about ready to give up, but now I see where ya coming from.

We've established some common ground and can move on. I think it's important, other noobs can come on to the forum check this thread out and either just read it or add to it.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 01:07:06 AM
If you have some time, do some more thread archeology.  Look for Verthaine's posts.  He's a multi-dementional warrior for Eris, living in this realm as a cook in New Orleans.  

He's got the Eris mysticism on lock.  




But hey, I'm always up for a little Chaos Theology.  All ya gotta do is ask.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Wolfpoet on May 13, 2006, 01:10:53 AM
Gonna go and sleep on this.

Will eb back tomorrow with some fresh ideas, day off so I'm gonan do some trhead searching too.

Thanks again LMNO for your time and paitence.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LHX on May 13, 2006, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: WolfpoetI think maybe it's a good time for folks like me, kai-Wren and lady Godiva to show up.

We can help you "cranky old bastards" look ahead. The thing si to look at us not as noobs but as the people your looking ahead at.

We are you guinea pigs guys!

This thread LMNO has managed in the space of one evening to change how i think about you lot and this forum. I was about ready to give up, but now I see where ya coming from.

We've established some common ground and can move on. I think it's important, other noobs can come on to the forum check this thread out and either just read it or add to it.

thats some beautiful shit right there
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: B_M_W on May 13, 2006, 01:12:43 AM
Quote from: LMNOA true initiation never ends, You can change your cell, but you can't escape the Black Iron Prison, the chains never come off

:mittens:
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2006, 01:12:53 AM
My job here is done.


Now I gotta go prepare.  I'm playing a minor part it this year's Boston B&D Fetish Ball.


LMNO
-Kinky bastard.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: AFK on May 13, 2006, 04:05:13 PM
I've been off the radar the last couple of days dealing with new house and research stuff.  Just wanted to say I've read over this thread and like where things are going.  I think this is a good example of how a willing mind can be educated.  Many look into the void and either fall in or run away shrieking.  That we can help some look into it and give it the finger is a beautiful thing.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on June 23, 2006, 07:44:23 PM
Bumped for Slithis.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: maphdet on June 23, 2006, 11:03:42 PM
I just want to add something, This Im sure is known already, and has been said, BUT I feel it is very important....

Nothing is Certain, Anything is Possible.


I want to add alot more here, on Eris and how She is Chaos.
Atleast how I see Her as Chaos.
(will do later tonight, dinner has to be made now, errr doesn't Have to
but, my family would like it)


I also have some feelings at times that Eris is far beyond my
comprehension. Yet I feel and  see Her Eveywhere at times.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 24, 2006, 01:32:22 AM
Quote from: maphdetI just want to add something, This Im sure is known already, and has been said, BUT I feel it is very important....

Nothing is Certain, Anything is Possible.


Oh, yeah?  Try not paying your taxes.

It's possible that the IRS will see the humor in this, right?
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Bella on June 24, 2006, 01:42:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: maphdetI just want to add something, This Im sure is known already, and has been said, BUT I feel it is very important....

Nothing is Certain, Anything is Possible.


Oh, yeah?  Try not paying your taxes.

It's possible that the IRS will see the humor in this, right?
I just sent off a check for my quarterly business taxes and it made me really cranky.
Trust me, they have no sense of humor.  :evil:
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: deet on June 24, 2006, 02:05:54 AM
They probably have more jokes involving broomsticks than you or I could come up with.
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: maphdet on June 24, 2006, 02:27:39 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: maphdetI just want to add something, This Im sure is known already, and has been said, BUT I feel it is very important....

Nothing is Certain, Anything is Possible.


Oh, yeah?  Try not paying your taxes.

It's possible that the IRS will see the humor in this, right?

Yeah ok, you are right there.

:)

I was just getting all philosophical is all.
Not pragmatic.


Quote from: BellaI just sent off a check for my quarterly business taxes and it made me really cranky.
Trust me, they have no sense of humor.

Indeed, I was one day late with my return for sales tax.
Whomp $50 fine. (granted that is state and not IRS, but close enough)
Funny thing is, I didn't even have a sale for that month, damnit!
Title: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: deet on June 24, 2006, 02:35:04 AM
$50 for a single day?

Wow. The IRS really are badass tax collectors.

I'm going to be filing two years of tax returns this week, and I'm not being penalized at all.
Title: Re: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: LMNO on October 01, 2008, 02:15:55 PM
Bump for Ale.

The Original Post was written as the Black Iron Prison concept was still in it's infancy; it was also written before Wolfpoet turned out to be a dick.

Some opinions I had in the OP have changed; but it's still a good place to start.
Title: Re: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Alethias on October 01, 2008, 06:16:38 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 01, 2008, 02:15:55 PM
Bump for Ale.

The Original Post was written as the Black Iron Prison concept was still in it's infancy; it was also written before Wolfpoet turned out to be a dick.

Some opinions I had in the OP have changed; but it's still a good place to start.
W00t, a personal bump.

I like the line about looking into the void and giving it the finger.  I tend to want to go whole hog and either dive in or run from it screaming.  As much as anything this feels like playing and dancing on the edge and seeing the dirt crumble a little and kinda dancing away but never really leaving it.

Some of my neighbors keep a couple of dobermans in their back yard.  one of the squirrels in the neighborhood loves to go sit just outside the fence and calmly do whatever.  The dobermans go wild.  the squirrel stays there and stares at them for awhile and moves away and then moves back.  Makes the dogs crazy.

I feel like I'm the squirrel, hehe. 

Cool thread.  I enjoyed reading it.  Thanx
Title: Re: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Honey on October 02, 2008, 03:38:59 AM
Quote from: LMNO on October 01, 2008, 02:15:55 PM
Bump for Ale.

The Original Post was written as the Black Iron Prison concept was still in it's infancy; it was also written before Wolfpoet turned out to be a dick.

Some opinions I had in the OP have changed; but it's still a good place to start.

Like a Black Iron Prison Apocrypha?  I like this thread.  Thanks & Respect.
Title: Re: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Telarus on October 02, 2008, 08:25:50 AM
More thanks for Bumping this post.

I opperate in Theistic Erisian mode sometimes, and I appreciate seeing that others do (and think critically about it) as well.
Title: Re: Fundamental Theosophies of Principia Discordia (and Eris)
Post by: Cramulus on February 08, 2011, 06:27:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD on May 12, 2006, 11:59:28 PM
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5363/newpdchart15no.jpg)

bump for this, 'cause I was looking for it