Boston Marathon today.
The finish line is in Copley Sq, where I work.
Just now, there were two explosions near the finish line.
No word on what's going on.
Updates will most likely follow.
If that's an accident, it's very coincidental that it should happen on this day, at this time and in this place.
(http://i.imgur.com/33D9cC4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fmd117y.jpg)
BBC:
QuoteVideo and photographs from Boston show a scene of confusion, with emergency services descending on the scene and bloodied spectators being taken to a medical tent.
"There are a lot of people down," said one runner quoted by AP news agency.
The incident reportedly came about three hours after the winners crossed the line.
Glad you're alright.
Had to make the "Hey, Dad, are you alright?" phone call a few minutes ago, myself (he is).
Any other Bostonians would probably set people's minds a ease by checking in here.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 15, 2013, 08:19:14 PM
Boston Marathon today.
The finish line is in Copley Sq, where I work.
Just now, there were two explosions near the finish line.
No word on what's going on.
Updates will most likely follow.
I just saw this :sad: Glad you're ok dude!
Mang'
QuoteAP said there was a loud explosion on the north side of Boylston Street, just before the bridge that marks the finish line. Another loud explosion could be heard a few seconds later.
Yup. That's what I heard, all right.
Footage of the explosion itself.
http://globalnews.ca/news/482060/2-explosions-at-boston-marathon-finish-line/?utm_source=facebook-twitter&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=community
Twid says: "I was not in copley square. I am ok. Damn."
BBC says there are reports that explosions came from inside the Fairmont Hotel.
Lenox Hotel being evacuated.
Cain, would I be right in thinking the probability of a third explosion decreases significantly as time passes without incident?
Apparently police are finding secondary devices, begging crowds to go home. (unconfirmed, just RT'd by a reputable source.)
I would think that if there was a third bomb, it was either supposed to go off already and was a dud, or is going to go off in an unrelated, higher value location after the emergency response teams have their hands full, Norway style.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 15, 2013, 08:53:55 PM
Cain, would I be right in thinking the probability of a third explosion decreases significantly as time passes without incident?
Eventually, yes.
Sometimes there are secondary bombs which are designed to kill emergency responders. Those can be detonated up to an hour after the first attacks.
I see GA has also covered this point, more or less.
Police did/are finding devices, and unfortunately have to blow them up, which is freaking everyone out.
Well, that rules out any chance of this being a serious gas-line error, then.
BBC has drawn parallels between this and the 1996 Atlanta bombings.
I shit you not, the thought running through my head on loop is, "If you're scared, the terrorists have won."
"the Associated Press is reporting that Newtown families were in the VIP area next to the finish line."
Update: 2 dead, 22 injured, from the BBC.
Police have confirmed the source were "small homemade" bombs at the news conference.
This is too fucking convenient.
The war porn wasn't scaring anyone. Might have been domestic yahoos, ME and DPRK types like the GREAT BIG SYMBOLIC targets...But I smell shit.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:16:53 PM
Police have confirmed the source were "small homemade" bombs at the news conference.
Wait. Bombs at the conference, or confirmation at the conference?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2013, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:16:53 PM
Police have confirmed the source were "small homemade" bombs at the news conference.
Wait. Bombs at the conference, or confirmation at the conference?
Latter.
QuoteBREAKING: Small homemade bomb is preliminary cause of explosion at Boston Marathon, law enforcement officials tell NBC News
— NBC Nightly News (@nbcnightlynews) April 15, 2013
I wonder who's going to get this stapled to their faces?
"Patriot's Day" in Mass. today.
American nativism + lots of foreigners is often a less than amicable mix. Not sold on it, just suggesting. Islamists also like international events. Small and homemade suggests a less professional outfit though, maybe even a "lone wolf" radical.
Two more devices found and dismantled.
Quote from: BBC Live FeedBreaking News
Citing a US intelligence official, the Associated Press reports two more explosive devices have been found at the Boston Marathon and are being dismantled.
I assume these are in addition to the one the police destroyed with a controlled explosion. So that means at least five bombs.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:02:23 PM
BBC has drawn parallels between this and the 1996 Atlanta bombings.
Any more on this one?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 15, 2013, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:02:23 PM
BBC has drawn parallels between this and the 1996 Atlanta bombings.
Any more on this one?
Not really. Just noting that the last time a sports venue specifically came under attack was that particular episode.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:27:25 PM
Two more devices found and dismantled.
Quote from: BBC Live FeedBreaking News
Citing a US intelligence official, the Associated Press reports two more explosive devices have been found at the Boston Marathon and are being dismantled.
I assume these are in addition to the one the police destroyed with a controlled explosion. So that means at least five bombs.
were they all in the same general location?
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on April 15, 2013, 09:29:15 PM
were they all in the same general location?
Not mentioned. All I know is in the post above.
Journalism student on the BBC being interviewed says there were rumours of police investigating claims of other bombs a couple of miles further south a short time ago, but there is no clear link to say these two are linked.
Even though lmno covered it confirming that i am ok. I was studying in a restaurant.
The two that went off were across the street from each other, one about a block north of the other (if the location of the explosions are accurate (Marathon Sports) and the Fairveiw Hotel.
Looking at the footage, the bomb was definitely in the hotel. You can see the smoke coming out of it.
Some confused reporting on JFK Library.
We have this (http://www.dotnews.com/2013/jfk-library-official-fire-not-related-marathon-attack) which says the fire there was not due to a device.
But the BBC are reporting a device went off outside there. BBC not clear if that is the site of the second explosion or the third, controlled explosion.
The two are not necessarily mutually incompatible, but I would like some clarification.
Boston PD is going to give a public statement in a few minutes.
Quote
A witness wrapped in a Mylar blanket tells ABC News he saw "the garbage can explode"
The fire is not connected. Electrical fire. Confirmed by fire dept.
There are sick fucks in this world.
Sick.
Fucks.
Most of my friends in Boston have reported in safe, and it looks like Providence is sending reinforcements.
They need to calm that city down, and get people out of there. (And we all know how well that went on 1/31/2007.)
I'm glad you're okay; LMNO, Twid. I hope the rest of the devices are found and disposed of safely.
What a god damn mess.
No-one has claimed responsibility so far.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 09:59:09 PM
No-one has claimed responsibility so far.
Nobody claimed the Atlanta bombings, either.
Indeed. It's becoming a more common theme in general, that.
Kennedy library makes me think right wingnut, but false flag does seem more likely.
Quote from: stelz on April 15, 2013, 10:03:22 PM
Kennedy library makes me think right wingnut, but false flag does seem more likely.
How so?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjYBalO?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost
Quote from: stelz on April 15, 2013, 10:03:22 PM
Kennedy library makes me think right wingnut, but false flag does seem more likely.
Too early to tell.
Two things worth mentioning:
1. The primaries worked like clockwork, the secondaries failed. But them just being there served the purpose.
2. No claim of responsibility. Could have another Eric Rudolph on our hands.
The NY Post is a rag. I wouldn't put TOO much stock into them.
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on April 15, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjYBalO?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost
Because anything with "Kennedy" on it is commie to those types.
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:06:24 PM
The NY Post is a rag. I wouldn't put TOO much stock into them.
Yeah. It's interesting, but waiting for independent confirmation on that.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:08:51 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:06:24 PM
The NY Post is a rag. I wouldn't put TOO much stock into them.
Yeah. It's interesting, but waiting for independent confirmation on that.
Nothing on MSNBC or NPR.
it seems that having unexploded secondaries that will likely be found would do more damage than if they went off, as they create a looming spectre.
Post is a Murdoch rag, right? They normally do have better police contacts than most...as recent events have shown.
We probably wont get anything definitive for the next 12 hours at least, if there is a suspect currently under guard.
There's a lot of fucking crazy in New England, but one thing we don't have a lot of is right wing nutjobs. They live in New Hampshire and very seldom come out because they're afraid of their shadows.
...There's gonna be a shit ton of dumb conspiracy theories though.
THANKS OBAMA.
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:12:04 PM
There's a lot of fucking crazy in New England, but one thing we don't have a lot of is right wing nutjobs. They live in New Hampshire and very seldom come out because they're afraid of their shadows.
...There's gonna be a shit ton of dumb conspiracy theories though.
THANKS OBAMA.
There's a few and it only takes one. Don't know yet.
There's cameras EVERYWHERE in an area like that, though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2013, 10:09:58 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:08:51 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:06:24 PM
The NY Post is a rag. I wouldn't put TOO much stock into them.
Yeah. It's interesting, but waiting for independent confirmation on that.
Nothing on MSNBC or NPR.
Boston/Providence NPR didn't pick up on the library bomb for a bit, but that was a controlled demo. It seems like they're going to be blowing up whatever they find for a while anyway, because now everyone's phone on a chair is going to be a bomb.
The fire at the JFK library was a result of another explosion, according to NPR & MSNBC.
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:12:04 PM
There's a lot of fucking crazy in New England, but one thing we don't have a lot of is right wing nutjobs. They live in New Hampshire and very seldom come out because they're afraid of their shadows.
...There's gonna be a shit ton of dumb conspiracy theories though.
THANKS OBAMA.
That might be part of the problem. Obviously, in places where their views are more widely accepted, there is less of need for violence to try and promote one's worldview. Look at Norway and Breivik, for example, or Islamic fundamentalism in the UK. Mostly cut off and hostile to the society around them, it becomes a lot easier to dehumanise people and justify violence.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:15:43 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:12:04 PM
There's a lot of fucking crazy in New England, but one thing we don't have a lot of is right wing nutjobs. They live in New Hampshire and very seldom come out because they're afraid of their shadows.
...There's gonna be a shit ton of dumb conspiracy theories though.
THANKS OBAMA.
That might be part of the problem. Obviously, in places where their views are more widely accepted, there is less of need for violence to try and promote one's worldview. Look at Norway and Breivik, for example, or Islamic fundamentalism in the UK. Mostly cut off and hostile to the society around them, it becomes a lot easier to dehumanise people and justify violence.
Good point.
Boston PD Feed: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/1225 They just found something in the ER at Mass Gen it sounds like.
Watching that one in real time. False alarm.
Maybe not reliable, but it says they shut down cell phone service in Boston to prevent remote detonation.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/2-bombs-explode-at-boston-marathon-2-3-dead-22-wounded-developing-2621264.html
Yes. Cell service shut down.
FWIW, I'm going to try and wait a solid week before I start making "whodunit" predictions.
Like I said, everyone's phone is going to be a potential bomb, now.
Did Twid go home? I know they killed the cell towers and are apparently now diverting air traffic.
There's bridges closed, too.
Anybody who made a day trip in for the Marathon is probably stuck.
Waiting to hear about the forensics now. Until someone claims it convincingly, that'll be the best avenue of investigation.
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:35:51 PM
Like I said, everyone's phone is going to be a potential bomb, now.
Did Twid go home? I know they killed the cell towers and are apparently now diverting air traffic.
twid's on his way to RI.
BBC have speculated either Islamist or right wing extremism. In addition to Patriot's Day, it is also Tax Day, apparently.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/bomb-blast-forensics-the-first-steps-15350814?click=pm_latest
Quote"Generally, white smoke means a commercial explosion or improvised device,"
Quote from: stelz on April 15, 2013, 10:37:30 PM
There's bridges closed, too.
Anybody who made a day trip in for the Marathon is probably stuck.
They need to get people out of that city. My friend's brother ran the marathon, he is currently holed up at a stranger's house in Kenmore. Safe, but stuck there.
Oh, and according to the Fire Dept Feed, the Library was an electrical fire and not related.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:41:40 PM
BBC have speculated either Islamist or right wing extremism. In addition to Patriot's Day, it is also Tax Day, apparently.
A disgruntled Teabagger unit in Boston on the anniversary of the first battle of the Rev War and the day taxes are due to the IRS.
...makes sense.
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:41:40 PM
BBC have speculated either Islamist or right wing extremism. In addition to Patriot's Day, it is also Tax Day, apparently.
A disgruntled Teabagger unit in Boston on the anniversary of the first battle of the Rev War and the day taxes are due to the IRS.
...makes sense.
Yeah, it's certainly possible. Not to mention the race is a strongly international event that was targeted. Symbolically, it makes sense.
However, from a more functional point of view, you want to maximise casualties, you pick a public holiday and a public event.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 15, 2013, 10:33:10 PM
Watching that one in real time. False alarm.
I was gonna say, that's one hard-working psycho.
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:47:33 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 15, 2013, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 15, 2013, 10:41:40 PM
BBC have speculated either Islamist or right wing extremism. In addition to Patriot's Day, it is also Tax Day, apparently.
A disgruntled Teabagger unit in Boston on the anniversary of the first battle of the Rev War and the day taxes are due to the IRS.
...makes sense.
Yeah, it's certainly possible. Not to mention the race is a strongly international event that was targeted. Symbolically, it makes sense.
However, from a more functional point of view, you want to maximise casualties, you pick a public holiday and a public event.
From that pov, this was a failure. The bombs went off after most runners were off the track.
What's the global lead story right now?
This says they're holding a "Saudi national".
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/watch-live-boston-bombing-report-saudi-national-idd-12-dead-100-injured-boston
But I can't help remembering the full page photo of Willie Bennett and the headline "WE GOT HIM" on the front page of the Herald back when the Charles Stuart thing was going on. :x
I just checked Eve's FB. Eve is fine.
Quote from: stelz on April 15, 2013, 10:52:26 PM
This says they're holding a "Saudi national".
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/watch-live-boston-bombing-report-saudi-national-idd-12-dead-100-injured-boston
But I can't help remembering the full page photo of Willie Bennett and the headline "WE GOT HIM" on the front page of the Herald back when the Charles Stuart thing was going on. :x
Alternet?
NYP?
Anything credible, anywhere?
Quote from: Pixie on April 15, 2013, 10:53:05 PM
I just checked Eve's FB. Eve is fine.
How 'bout Darth Cupcake?
So far, this rates as "Tuesday" in Belfast.
I'm not being cavalier about the dead and injured. Just saying it could have been far worse.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 15, 2013, 10:52:26 PM
This says they're holding a "Saudi national".
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/watch-live-boston-bombing-report-saudi-national-idd-12-dead-100-injured-boston
But I can't help remembering the full page photo of Willie Bennett and the headline "WE GOT HIM" on the front page of the Herald back when the Charles Stuart thing was going on. :x
Alternet?
NYP?
Anything credible, anywhere?
Not yet.
https://www.google.com/search?q=boston+bombing&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=#q=boston+bombing&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:h&sa=X&ei=N3dsUezuHOK72wXVqYDQBw&ved=0CBsQpwUoAQ&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.b2I&fp=e585d262fcb36a97&biw=1311&bih=575
QuoteThe New York Post reported that a "Saudi national who suffered shrapnel wounds in today's blast" has been identified as "a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing." The Boston PD spokesperson did not confirm that report.
"Honestly, I don't know where they're getting their information from, but it didn't come from us," said the spokesperson.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/boston-police-no-arrests-have-been-made-in
Google put up a person finder.
http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/
I'm already seeing the internet flood with "BAN MARATHONS, NOT GUNS".
I hate you all.
Quote from: Pæs on April 15, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
I'm already seeing the internet flood with "BAN MARATHONS, NOT GUNS".
I hate you all.
I hate the internet. :crankey:
Im in fall river practicing with daniel. Just arrived. Wont be back in boston until about eleven. Will check in again when i am at home in case more stuff happens.
Quote from: Pæs on April 15, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
I'm already seeing the internet flood with "BAN MARATHONS, NOT GUNS".
I hate you all.
Well, alot of people are starting to conclude that the bomb was constructed using tannerite or ANFO, so I think their point is that attacking guns (i.e. devices that use neither tannerite nor ANFO) makes about as much sense as attacking marathons.
Quote from: Pæs on April 15, 2013, 11:02:00 PM
I'm already seeing the internet flood with "BAN MARATHONS, NOT GUNS".
I hate you all.
Partisan yammering > Good taste.
Daniels husband is ok but stuck in boston
I expect partisan yammering until nobody knows WTF really happened. Like always.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 15, 2013, 11:08:20 PM
Im in fall river practicing with daniel. Just arrived. Wont be back in boston until about eleven. Will check in again when i am at home in case more stuff happens.
If you can't get back to Boston, let me know. Couch available in Providence, just 15 minutes away from the Reev.
Glad to hear all of the Beantown PDers are safe and sound.
This is just nuts.
LOOK HERE COEMS TEH STUPID
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NionWntMcXQ
Thanks suu. Anne marie is giving me a lift back so i should be able to get to villagers at the very least.
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 01:03:28 AM
LOOK HERE COEMS TEH STUPID
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NionWntMcXQ
Jones is nuts for sure, but even if it isn't a false flag, given the circumstances (Boston the day before tax day; nation up in arms against arms due to tragedies etc), I can certainly see why the right is worried that they could become unreasonably damned for this...
Wasn't even on that end of the state today. All my non-PD peoples are safe and accounted for, including our friend at the Globe who was down there reporting. Jesus fuckballs this blows.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 01:03:28 AM
LOOK HERE COEMS TEH STUPID
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NionWntMcXQ
Jones is nuts for sure, but even if it isn't a false flag, given the circumstances (Boston the day before tax day; nation up in arms against arms due to tragedies etc), I can certainly see why the right is worried that they could become unreasonably damned for this...
I know it's not a fashionable thing to believe, even in private -- let alone to say out loud or on the Internet where other people might hear you -- because it leads fairly quickly to the presumption that you are
totally crazy for some reason, but I remain unconvinced to this day that certain other larger-scale terrorist attacks on the US were entirely the work of goons from Afghanistan.
The Boston bombings today, though... I don't know. It's too soon to tell whether it was "legitimate" or not, but either way some people are dead and some other people are hurt, and that is enough to emphatically denounce them as senseless. It would be "convenient" for a false-flag operation (maybe) but it would also be "convenient" for anti-government nuts with something to say (and too little book-learnin' to know how to say it with words). Or for jihadis, for whom any amount of carnage anywhere for any reason at all seems to be "convenient."
My money is on crazy libertarian(s) or anarchist(s), but only because it seems like a decent false flag operation would have generated far more casualties. And it can't be Islamists because after all -- we're fighting them
over there so we don't have to fight them
over here, remember?
Mostly unrelated: The news story I read wasn't kidding when it said NYC security has been stepped up. It looks like a goddamn George Orwell novel out there tonight.
A third victim has died.
:(
Apparently the final word is that the JFK library was a coincidental fire. The BPD was confused, and have said so (I can hardly blame them), and have also backed up the Boston Fire Department's statement.
Leln was out of the city all day, thanks to previous foresight. Still nearly passed a brick.
A few buddies called to check on me too. Thanked all of them, you can never stop wondering until you ask after stuff like this.
Quote from: Richter on April 16, 2013, 02:55:23 AM
Leln was out of the city all day, thanks to previous foresight. Still nearly passed a brick.
A few buddies called to check on me too. Thanked all of them, you can never stop wondering until you ask after stuff like this.
I was gonna call, but there's already too much load on the cell phone system.
Good call. Signal was getting gnarly when I was making my own check ins
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Whoa. Glad you spags are ok.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
All the "let's be as offensive as possible" fb pages have been cracking jokes about it since before I got home from work, so I'm not surprised.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Watched the footage. That was real.
The tourniquet is just tight as a banjo string, is all. And it was one leg, not both.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:43:10 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Watched the footage. That was real.
The tourniquet is just tight as a banjo string, is all. And it was one leg, not both.
I don't have words. :cry:
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
If you're referring to the pic where he's being wheeled off in a wheelchair, note that he's had tounaquettes applied and shouldn't be bleeding.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:44:45 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:43:10 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Watched the footage. That was real.
The tourniquet is just tight as a banjo string, is all. And it was one leg, not both.
I don't have words. :cry:
Explosions do weird things. Other than one leg being flayed to the bone, he's hardly got a scratch on him.
Welcome to the entire rest of the world.
This is why I get pissy when the "nuke 'em all/Regime change" assholes get started. Because you get a whole lot of shit like that, and it's not abstract to the people to whom it happens.
This guy's lucky. He's going to live. And while living with your leg gone above the knee (and my guess is they're going to have to cut high) isn't an attractive idea, he's going to be around to be angry at it, whereas at least 3 other people won't be.
The bone-legged mans injuries stand out to me. I've not seen anyone else so effected from these bombs...I wonder where he was standing to have this happen to him.
Yeah.
I found the footage. His face isn't even contorted, he must be in shock. The whole thing is surreal enough to LOOK fake.
People don't know what they're asking for.
Today reminds me of growing up in the 80's in the UK, Shit like this was frequent as fuck until i was 14.
I've been hearing announcers at train stations ask that people not leave their baggage unattended since as long as i can remember.
I used to be a security officer at a County Court and was trained to initiate radio silence and protocols for dealing with suspicious packages. I've done that about 3 times. When I was in AZ in 2003 there was a bag left unattended at a cafe, everyone ignored it, and the security lady didn't even turn off the radio or clear the area when she searched it. Freaked me the fuck out. Was just some skater punk's grubby clothes, but the blase attitude and lack of training was :O.
The newer malls in Southampton have no rubbish bins inside, or near the entrances. I guess that's how ingrained it was for us, during the Troubles in NI and the mainland, that newer buildings are designed to be as secure in that sense, as they are.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:44:45 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:43:10 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Watched the footage. That was real.
The tourniquet is just tight as a banjo string, is all. And it was one leg, not both.
I don't have words. :cry:
Explosions do weird things. Other than one leg being flayed to the bone, he's hardly got a scratch on him.
Welcome to the entire rest of the world.
This is why I get pissy when the "nuke 'em all/Regime change" assholes get started. Because you get a whole lot of shit like that, and it's not abstract to the people to whom it happens.
This guy's lucky. He's going to live. And while living with your leg gone above the knee (and my guess is they're going to have to cut high) isn't an attractive idea, he's going to be around to be angry at it, whereas at least 3 other people won't be.
There's the psychological trauma too.
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 03:55:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:48:28 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:44:45 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 03:43:10 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 03:39:24 AM
They're starting to post fake stuff. I just saw a pic of a guy who was bone from the knees down but there was no blood on the ground.
WHAT. THE. FUCK.
Watched the footage. That was real.
The tourniquet is just tight as a banjo string, is all. And it was one leg, not both.
I don't have words. :cry:
Explosions do weird things. Other than one leg being flayed to the bone, he's hardly got a scratch on him.
Welcome to the entire rest of the world.
This is why I get pissy when the "nuke 'em all/Regime change" assholes get started. Because you get a whole lot of shit like that, and it's not abstract to the people to whom it happens.
This guy's lucky. He's going to live. And while living with your leg gone above the knee (and my guess is they're going to have to cut high) isn't an attractive idea, he's going to be around to be angry at it, whereas at least 3 other people won't be.
There's the psychological trauma too.
You have to be alive to have that.
Not to downplay it, but there are various levels of fucked.
The psychological stuff will hit many many people. More than the body count. More than the injured.
This country is lucky enough not to easily know what horrific trauma looks like.
Next time, ask a Palastinian.
Or, pixie.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 03:57:51 AM
This country is lucky enough not to easily know what horrific trauma looks like.
Next time, ask a Palastinian.
Or, pixie.
Or some dumb grunt Iraqi, circa Desert Storm, starved half to death, then blown to bits. <--- Dead, doesn't care.
Or, you know, if you visit a doll factory. <--- Alive, glad to be alive. Horrors and all.
Like I said, if you live through it, that's a bonus. If you come away from it, win or lose, psychologically unscathed, you were a sociopath to begin with.
Quote from: V3X on April 16, 2013, 02:43:47 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 01:03:28 AM
LOOK HERE COEMS TEH STUPID
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/15/alex_jones_labels_boston_explosion_a_false_flag/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NionWntMcXQ
Jones is nuts for sure, but even if it isn't a false flag, given the circumstances (Boston the day before tax day; nation up in arms against arms due to tragedies etc), I can certainly see why the right is worried that they could become unreasonably damned for this...
I know it's not a fashionable thing to believe, even in private -- let alone to say out loud or on the Internet where other people might hear you -- because it leads fairly quickly to the presumption that you are totally crazy for some reason, but I remain unconvinced to this day that certain other larger-scale terrorist attacks on the US were entirely the work of goons from Afghanistan.
The Boston bombings today, though... I don't know. It's too soon to tell whether it was "legitimate" or not, but either way some people are dead and some other people are hurt, and that is enough to emphatically denounce them as senseless. It would be "convenient" for a false-flag operation (maybe) but it would also be "convenient" for anti-government nuts with something to say (and too little book-learnin' to know how to say it with words). Or for jihadis, for whom any amount of carnage anywhere for any reason at all seems to be "convenient."
My money is on crazy libertarian(s) or anarchist(s), but only because it seems like a decent false flag operation would have generated far more casualties. And it can't be Islamists because after all -- we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here, remember?
Mostly unrelated: The news story I read wasn't kidding when it said NYC security has been stepped up. It looks like a goddamn George Orwell novel out there tonight.
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
Also, and I don't mean to sound dickish, Pixie, but I don't need to be told about psychological trauma.
I have a nodding acquaintance with it.
Back in somerville. Might just be my perception but everything seems really quiet.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 03:57:51 AM
This country is lucky enough not to easily know what horrific trauma looks like.
Next time, ask a Palastinian.
Or, pixie.
Eh, Was just what came to mind. UK's no Palestine, even back then.. It's just with 30 years of domestic terrorism, we kind of became used to it, Southampton had an incident once.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:03:03 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 03:57:51 AM
This country is lucky enough not to easily know what horrific trauma looks like.
Next time, ask a Palastinian.
Or, pixie.
Or some dumb grunt Iraqi, circa Desert Storm, starved half to death, then blown to bits. <--- Dead, doesn't care.
Or, you know, if you visit a doll factory. <--- Alive, glad to be alive. Horrors and all.
Like I said, if you live through it, that's a bonus. If you come away from it, win or lose, psychologically unscathed, you were a sociopath to begin with.
Point.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:06:55 AM
Also, and I don't mean to sound dickish, Pixie, but I don't need to be told about psychological trauma.
I have a nodding acquaintance with it.
Fair enough. I was thinking that there's more than a physical impact, and those numbers won't really ever be known.
I'm tired, and not really filtering any thoughts.
Didn't mean to exclude you from horrific trauma, Roger. Lord knows you've had your share-- and you've helped sheltered middle class guys like me* gain some passing semblance of what the fuck is going on out there, where the rubber meets the road and steel meets flesh. You've elevated the com/sym/empathic functionality in me, and have helped a lot. In a way, thank you for your service, and your interpretation of that to help others. I'm not sure how much sense I'm making.
*This isn't a joke. I really am very, very sheltered.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
Yeah. I don't normally think of myself as protected or insulated from things.
But I am. I didn't even know what I was looking at.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
Eh, personally, theorising at this stage seems premature.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 04:17:46 AM
Yeah. I don't normally think of myself as protected or insulated from things.
But I am. I didn't even know what I was looking at.
To be honest, I've purposefully avoided any graphic images. I don't think I need to see fucked up to know it's fukced up.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen?
1. An anarchist wouldn't go after health nuts, he or she would target a bank or a hedge fund office.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
The ideology affects nothing but the choice of targets. A crazy asshole is a crazy asshole, and it doesn't matter what flag they're waving or cause they're espousing.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 04:15:49 AM
Didn't mean to exclude you from horrific trauma, Roger. Lord knows you've had your share-- and you've helped sheltered middle class guys like me* gain some passing semblance of what the fuck is going on out there, where the rubber meets the road and steel meets flesh. You've elevated the com/sym/empathic functionality in me, and have helped a lot. In a way, thank you for your service, and your interpretation of that to help others. I'm not sure how much sense I'm making.
*This isn't a joke. I really am very, very sheltered.
Good. If there's ONE excuse for civilization, it's that a portion of the population gets to live with a mostly-clean skull.
That portion of the population is worth having around. Murderers aren't.
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 04:20:52 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 04:17:46 AM
Yeah. I don't normally think of myself as protected or insulated from things.
But I am. I didn't even know what I was looking at.
To be honest, I've purposefully avoided any graphic images. I don't think I need to see fucked up to know it's fukced up.
Stay off of facebook. It was on my news feed.
Im avoiding speculation until further info is available. Because heres what we know. Two bombs went off. Two bombs didnt. Three people died. One hundred and thirty are injured. People are are spreading rumors about a suspect that the police have said is nonsense. No one has claimed responsibility. So. I dont know enough to make any guesses.
Well said, Twid. And yeah, the FB images are kind of fucked.
I haven't seen anything on my feed. Being in the UK probably helps.. someone did post something a bit graphic, but warned folks and it was just a link.
Yeah im actually kinda glad that facebook pics show up as indescernible pixelated messes. And as useless as fb usually is it was very handy today and i was glad to see so many people posting or liking. It let me know they were ok.
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
Or, you could wait until this all shakes out before you begin building any sand castles.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
As I said before, I'm assuming the "good" parts of the right wouldn't have bombed anyone.
LMNO, Roger, I'm sorry if my earlier comments were out of line...
I got a nagging feeling that I dun fucked up.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
If it was the right, it was the bad part of the right. I don't think anyone believes that the average conservative would do some monstrous shit like this.
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 04:50:39 AM
LMNO, Roger, I'm sorry if my earlier comments were out of line...
I got a nagging feeling that I dun fucked up.
No, no, Pix, you're aces. No worries.
The problem is in my head, not your words.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 04:48:43 AM
Or, you could wait until this all shakes out before you begin building any sand castles.
It's human nature to speculate. The quick and dirty answer to this is that it was done by a complete dickhead, aka Eric Rudolph, and no political or religious philosophy is, as a whole, to blame. Except, once or twice, those Aum Shinrikyo shitbags.
The conspiracy is floating around about a guy "seen" on a rooftop while the explosion happened.
Courtesy of the HFT community.
The sons of bitches couldn't give Boston one fucking day.
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 04:53:53 AM
The conspiracy is floating around about a guy "seen" on a rooftop while the explosion happened.
Courtesy of the HFT community.
The sons of bitches couldn't give Boston one fucking day.
Fuck those assholes. This is
porn to them.
I had some conspiracy nut here saying "But Alex Jones said they were doing drills in Boston not too long ago". Yeah, like ALL THE TIME SINCE 911.
They did drills here in Tucson, and I notice a distinct lack of explosions. Outside of my pants, anyway.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:51:11 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
If it was the right, it was the bad part of the right. I don't think anyone believes that the average conservative would do some monstrous shit like this.
Meh, guess im just fear mongering. I mean, i hear people say "the right did this", and then think about my own personal beliefs, its kinda disconcerting because you get this feeling that people may start associating your belief systems with domestic terror.
Perhaps this is how muslims felt after the coinage of that term "islamist"....
I see what you mean though roger...
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 04:50:39 AM
LMNO, Roger, I'm sorry if my earlier comments were out of line...
I got a nagging feeling that I dun fucked up.
You're good from from where I stand. You're someone I consider a superior biped.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:51:55 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 04:50:39 AM
LMNO, Roger, I'm sorry if my earlier comments were out of line...
I got a nagging feeling that I dun fucked up.
No, no, Pix, you're aces. No worries.
The problem is in my head, not your words.
Been running on PILLS HERE due to other stuff that made my head fuckery before this whole thing, and when I saw it i kind of freaked out because PD folks and other friends from teh interwebs being in MA.
Narrowly avoided 2 panic attacks due to timing my meds well, so, I guess thats a win. Night all.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:57:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:51:11 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
If it was the right, it was the bad part of the right. I don't think anyone believes that the average conservative would do some monstrous shit like this.
Meh, guess im just fear mongering. I mean, i hear people say "the right did this", and then think about my own personal beliefs, its kinda disconcerting because you get this feeling that people may start associating your belief systems with domestic terror.
Perhaps this is how muslims felt after the coinage of that term "islamist"....
I see what you mean though roger...
Funny how that works. You can't dehumanize people, because 1) it's morally wrong, and 2) it comes back and bites you on the ass later.
Like I said, the person's ideological beliefs only mattered in the target chosen (if that, I could be wrong). He/she was just a scumbag with a massive bag of butthurt and rationalizations.
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 05:01:00 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:51:55 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 04:50:39 AM
LMNO, Roger, I'm sorry if my earlier comments were out of line...
I got a nagging feeling that I dun fucked up.
No, no, Pix, you're aces. No worries.
The problem is in my head, not your words.
Been running on PILLS HERE due to other stuff that made my head fuckery before this whole thing, and when I saw it i kind of freaked out because PD folks and other friends from teh interwebs being in MA.
Narrowly avoided 2 panic attacks due to timing my meds well, so, I guess thats a win. Night all.
I'm hitting it, too. 'Night.
Youre fine pix. I was actually touched that your status on fb said you were glad lmno eve and i were ok. You werent minimizing anything.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
You're coming off as a Nazi Sympathizer!
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 05:11:17 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
You're coming off as a Nazi Sympathizer!
That's cause he's a totse Randroid troll!
You guys have to read ALL the books.
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 04:53:53 AM
The conspiracy is floating around about a guy "seen" on a rooftop while the explosion happened.
Courtesy of the HFT community.
The sons of bitches couldn't give Boston one fucking day.
:lulz:
Ive seen the ZOMG ROOFTOP MAN things. Im actually happy this is a thing...it shows that their is an entire group out there of people who will never effectively rig up a remote detonator. Why would bomberman need to be on the rooftop nearby if he could have detonated from across the country with a cellphone...
CNN just said something about a guy in Revere they're looking at.
I had a massive post here on ideological terrorism and its various manifestations....and then the site ate it.
Goddamnit, I am really fucking annoyed at that.
Gonna have a coffee, then try again.
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 05:11:17 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
You're coming off as a Nazi Sympathizer!
My political opinions are crude and unrefined considering the tastes of this board.
As for the accusations of being from totse, though...ive never posted there...lurked once, got bored and returned to my particular imageboard. And concerning ayn rand...heh. ive never read her works...not since gradeschool.
Regardless, im not in this thread to defend my political positions. Im in this thread to speculate about a bombing.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 05:28:23 AM
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 05:11:17 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
You're coming off as a Nazi Sympathizer!
My political opinions are crude and unrefined considering the tastes of this board.
As for the accusations of being from totse, though...ive never posted there...lurked once, got bored and returned to my particular imageboard. And concerning ayn rand...heh. ive never read her works...not since gradeschool.
Regardless, im not in this thread to defend my political positions. Im in this thread to speculate about a bombing.
Then I urge you to wait until some solid info comes out. No point in formulating a hypothesis if you're not sure about the data.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 05:23:10 AM
Goddamnit, I am really fucking annoyed at that.
Yeah, that blows. I'm looking forward to it.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 05:28:23 AM
Quote from: /b/earman on April 16, 2013, 05:11:17 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
You're coming off as a Nazi Sympathizer!
My political opinions are crude and unrefined considering the tastes of this board.
Regardless, im not in this thread to defend my political positions. Im in this thread to speculate about a bombing.
We don't have any unless you're a Utopian! In that case give me all your money!
As far as speculation goes, I seem to remember this guy... I think his name was Breivik or something like that. It happened a long time ago. Like, last year I think, in this place... It might have been Norway. Anyway, a bunch of people... mostly at Fox News.... speculated that it was some sort of Islamist attack. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the guy turned out to be very anti-Islamist and that might have been precisely why he did what he did.
Twid,
Tries not to make unfounded guesses.
By and large, when a bombing of a large group of people happens in public, right wing extremists or Islamist terrorists make good suspects. Both are the major sources of terrorism, the state itself aside in the modern world, and both display certain methodological similarities when it comes to target selection and tactics.
By right-wing terrorism, what is normally referred to is palingenetic ultranationalism, white nationalism, more later the "counterjihadist" movement and, especially in the US, the fringes of the "Sovereign Citizen" movement. Sometimes Christian-inspired terrorism is also put under this label, due to the strong cultural links between political religion and the far right in the US (ie; the "Christian Identity movement").
This differs from the right wing in the US in general in that they do not support the institutions of the state to carry out political violence. There have been some disturbing displays of willingness to use violence inherent in the US mainstream right in the last decade, but these have normally revolved around the use of the military, FBI and CIA to clamp down on dissent and Islamist terror. However, the loss of political power of the right since 2008 (and 2005 in particular) has resulted in a greater use of tropes familiar to US history - suspicion of central government, resistance to authority that appears to be overstepping its bounds etc which are also trafficked in by the far right to build greater support for supposed acts of "tyrannicide", "revolution" and "secession" against the federal government.
Due to the general weakness and lack of popular support such groups have, the best way for them to raise awareness of themselves and their cause is attacks on large, public targets and international events, or those that involve ethnic minorities in the USA. So, for example, the shooting at the Holocaust Museum, or the assassination of Alan Berg. Because they tend to be unpopular, they can attack public targets with little in the way of hesitation, as I alluded to earlier with my reply to Suu.
There is also a long pedigree of right wing extremism in the US. It tends to fly lower on the radar, because it raises the disturbing thought that terrorism is endemic to modern political life, rather than a manifestation of an "evil other" located outside of the nation-state, either literally or through custom and practice. Fortunately, such groups tend to be small and disinclined to work with each other due to the petty political posturing of their various leaders, and it is thoroughly infiltrated by FBI informants (a point I will touch on later).
In the case of Boston, we have a history with strong historical resonance to the US, and in particular political violence carried out in the name of virtue and resisting tyranny - tropes the extremist right like to believe apply to themselves. We also have a strongly liberal city in a very liberal state, hosting an international event on "Patriots Day" - another historical resonance - and also Tax Day, a significant concern of the extremist right and in particular the Sovereign Citizen movement, which has had some influence on right-libertarianism in the US, which itself has had a strong influence on mainstream right wing political discourse in the last few years. The combination of these factors may have made an attractive target to those inclined in such a way.
Islamist terrorists probably need no introduction. Transnational Islamist groups target the USA because of the political support of the government there for Israel and the corrupt Arab monarchies and military dictatorships, and because more recently because of costly military interventions in the region.
Attacking the US is part of the Al-Qaeda grand strategy of confronting the "far enemy" to topple said Arab dictatorships. The idea is that the Islamist groups of the Middle East are pointlessly targeting their own governments, because the source of their strength is American economic and military might, and the willingness of its citizens to fund such ventures. Terrorism is therefore an act of punishment and intimidation against the American population, designed to raise the cost of such support to such a level that the public there stop supporting them.
Yes, I'm saying Islamic terrorists are pretty naive in their understanding of the US political system and how much power voters have.
Al-Qaeda's core message has been adopted by a number of Islamist groups, most notably the "Al-Qaeda" regional franchises such as Al-Qaeda in Yemen and Al-Qaeda in the Mahgreb, though one should always be cautious when considering such groups, as they operate with significant state support to achieve political objectives related to US geopolitical aims in those regions and in acquiring counter-terrorism and military funds for the states in question.
Nevertheless, there has been significant ideological transmission from the main Al-Qaeda core in the NWFP and the international jihadist movement as a whole.
Boston would be a step down for them, as the Islamist movements generally rely on mass casualties and, famously (though not exclusively), suicide bombings to demonstrate their zeal. They prefer targets which typify American power and prestige, and to kill large numbers of people. However, the fragmentation of the Al-Qaeda core network since the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan has led them to adopt a strategy of provocation and support for lone wolves and small cells, whose operational capabilities are generally far inferior to what "The Base" could deploy in the years leading up to 9/11. Also, the most formidable elements of Al-Qaeda are mostly involved in Afghanistan, in the Lashkar al-Zil group, attempting to drive the US out of the region as a priority goal before resuming the "far enemy" strategy.
Boston would be a target due to a public holiday, ensuring larger causalties, and because of the presence of the Boston Marathon, which would ensure international or global coverage of the attack.
Among the other major reasons for terrorism, this methodology would be very unusual.
For example, anarchist terrorists were mentioned in the thread. Anarchism has a long pedigree of using terrorist action, the phrase "propaganda of the deed" is an originally Anarchist one. However, Anarchist violence has typically waned since the 1910s. Before then, it was almost entirely focused on the act of assassination, typically of heads of states, as part of a strategy of designed to invite greater state repression in hope of formenting general revolution among the population. Nowadays, Anarchist violence is mostly resigned to attacks on corporate offices and banks, or else symbolic public targets. A mass casualty incident is not the typical Anarchist MO.
Another large source of terrorism is environmentalism. Again though, it is hard to see a link here. Environmental terrorist groups, while generally poorly understood, target scientists or corporate officials for assassination, or else focus their attacks on corporate offices and labs of companies involved in what they consider environmentally detrimental research. They also frequently carry out acts of malicious sabotage, but again a public bombing on this scale is unheard of.
Another possibility is apocalyptic cultism. Apocalyptic cults tend to not be too worried about mass casualties. Their capabilities also tend to range based on their resources, but for most cults, that capability is pretty low. However, such a group would be flying pretty low on the radar, and almost certainly be previously unknown for violence.
Ethno-nationalist violence in the US normally takes the form of white-nationalism, which comes under the right wing extremism label. I have seen no signs of increasing radicalization among the fringes of Black or Latino nationalist movements, which do not have a strong history of violence in the US anyway.
Marxist violence is also fairly rare. Most violent Marxist groups are legacy insurgent organizations dating back to the Cold War, such as FARC. While Marxism has been called "the ideology of justified political violence", it is typically not very popular in the post-Cold War world, and in the US in particular. Marxist targets also more generally involve political, military and corporate targets, as part of a move from terorrism to broader insurgent violence, though the data on that is somewhat skewed thanks to Italy and the....unusual circumstances surrounding terrorism from the left and the right there (spoiler: elements of the Italian state, NATO and the CIA were ultimately responsible, though they'll never admit it).
A word though on state terrorism, false flag operations and covert ops. Such things are not unheard of, in history or most recent times. The very structure of the struggle against terrorism makes an element of manipulation, negotiation and crossover between state intelligence services and terrorist organizations a given, as we are not engaged in "total war" against terrorism (yes, Dorothy, Bush and every other political leader ever lied when they said they would not negotiate with terrorists. They did, and frequently).
I cut my teeth on studying Italian terrorism, so I consider myself to know something about this subject. There are sometimes....structural links between terrorist oganizations and intelligence services, the latter of whom see fit to use the spectre of terrorism for more immediate political and longer-term geopolitical ends. A pet terrorist group on a leash, carefully controlled via informants and selective arrests of independent elements, can give agencies a very useful tool in furthering objectives, such as the overall stability of the state. How better for the state to secure itself than to control the organization which purports to fight it? Such a pet can also be let off the leash, should the political climate become less favourable.
However, such claims must be treated with the utmost caution and only made when there is evidence to support them. Such claims, when true, often end up with the claimant suffering a "fatal mugging". And such claims, when false, not only reduce the credibility of the person making them, it also means one is not fundamentally dealing with the conditions which caused this terrorist act.
As of yet, there is no evidence to suggest state involvement in Boston. The FBI has been engaging in what I consider a foolhardy program of provocation, whereby it uses paid agent provocateurs to organise false terrorist attacks and supply fake materials for bombings, then arrests the participants (some of whom have been mentally ill, or not undertaken any overt attacks) and puts on a great public show about a "narrowly thwarted terrorist attack". This may perform the same basic function as allowing terrorist attacks to actually occur, in that it increases fear of Islamist terrorism and thus justifies the FBIs ever increasing counter-terrorism budget, and political moves in Washington done in the name of counter-terrorism.
And, as previously mentioned, the FBI has thoroughly infiltrated the right wing extremist movement too. There has been a disturbing general pattern in rightwing terrorism in Europe in recent years of police informants carrying out murders and bombings while, supposedly, under the watchful eye of state security. There are also perisistent rumours that the FBI had informants in "Elohim City" that might have known about the OKC Bombing. It is always keeping in mind why the FBI persistently infiltrates certain groups, yet does not act to dismantle them. Recall the words of Gianfranco Sanguinetti, "The State has been declaring for years that it is fighting the R.B.'s, it infiltrated them several times without ever attempting to dismantle them, therefore the State makes use of the R.B.'s as a cover, because the R.B.s are useful to this State, therefore R.B. = the State."
There is also the possibility of a lone wolf attack, by a person who does not have an ideological position as we normally understand the phrase, or was attempting to carry out a personal vendetta, such as murdering someone, under the guise of a terrorist act.
However, until further evidence is made available, there is nothing to definitively suggest any of these as "the" motivation behind the attack. I assign most weight to the extreme right/Islamist/lone wolf theories, in that order, because that's what the data over the previous decade or so suggest are the most likely motivations, but this is a probablistic assessment and nothing more until we have more information.
Thank you, Cain, for your assessment. I'll bear these things in mind as further info comes in.
That....
...that was a good piece of analysis you made there.
I have a little more experience and devoted a little more time to thinking about this kind of thing than the average person. Or even the un-average person.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 06:58:01 AM
I have a little more experience and devoted a little more time to thinking about this kind of thing than the average person. Or even the un-average person.
Its impressive...
It was a nice write-up; id just like to comment that its good how you make an interpretation based on the existant data, like, interpretation is a risk that is rarely acknowledged, there's always more assholes that have blind certainties that happily provide for the masses that want easy answers than accurate reserved assesments.
Best thing I've heard all day: North Korea did it. :lulz:
Not even 24 hours from an event where people died and already cracking jokes, fuck off you hyena.
I pretty much missed this, catching up now.
Am I the only one to wonder if there was something super valuable in that library that won't be noticed now?
Everyone else seems under suspicion, I'd just like to accuse possible book thieves too.
Seriously though, glad you lot are OK.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Not even 24 hours from an event where people died and already cracking jokes, fuck off you hyena.
Why? Joking after something tragic is a perfectly normal response. And it's probably the tamest of the jokes I've seen rolling out so far.
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 09:27:08 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Not even 24 hours from an event where people died and already cracking jokes, fuck off you hyena.
Why? Joking after something tragic is a perfectly normal response. And it's probably the tamest of the jokes I've seen rolling out so far.
Perfectly normal for people that weren't in the vincinity and it's all just an abstraction; and just because there is a relatively more obnoxious joke somewhere is not really a great argument.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 09:49:49 AM
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 09:27:08 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Not even 24 hours from an event where people died and already cracking jokes, fuck off you hyena.
Why? Joking after something tragic is a perfectly normal response. And it's probably the tamest of the jokes I've seen rolling out so far.
Perfectly normal for people that weren't in the vincinity and it's all just an abstraction; and just because there is a relatively more obnoxious joke somewhere is not really a great argument.
You're right, it shouldn't matter how obnoxious the joke is it's always a normal reaction. Humour is just as valid a coping mechanism as any other.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 08:54:04 AM
Not even 24 hours from an event where people died and already cracking jokes, fuck off you hyena.
The only joke I see is that some people are actually believing what I assume you see as a punchline...
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
The word hysterical is fitting here, but not in the context you used it. I wouldn't even call it gallows humour because it didn't have any shock to it.
He made an obvious, inoffensive joke, or do you seriously believe North korea planted those bombs?
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
Your nation is obviously pretty new to terrorism. Give it another decade or so and you'll be able to crack jokes whilst the garbage can that's just exploded and taken out your family is still smouldering.
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 11:50:20 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
The word hysterical is fitting here, but not in the context you used it. I wouldn't even call it gallows humour because it didn't have any shock to it.
He made an obvious, inoffensive joke, or do you seriously believe North korea planted those bombs?
I cannot understand Korean, but if the imagery is correct in what it implies, my "joke" was less joke than it appeared...NK
appears to be claiming this on what I can only assume is either their internal media, or a stark parody thereof...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myoNe5TNyn8
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2013, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
Your nation is obviously pretty new to terrorism. Give it another decade or so and you'll be able to crack jokes whilst the garbage can that's just exploded and taken out your family is still smouldering.
And then bitch about how it's made you late for work.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 11:50:20 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
The word hysterical is fitting here, but not in the context you used it. I wouldn't even call it gallows humour because it didn't have any shock to it.
He made an obvious, inoffensive joke, or do you seriously believe North korea planted those bombs?
I cannot understand Korean, but if the imagery is correct in what it implies, my "joke" was less joke than it appeared...NK appears to be claiming this on what I can only assume is either their internal media, or a stark parody thereof...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myoNe5TNyn8
I see...
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 12:34:38 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 16, 2013, 12:31:42 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 16, 2013, 11:12:10 AM
yeah, im such a killjoy for not joining in on the best "lulz" of the day, im sure people that were there must be HYSTERICAL knowing that there are people thinking NK was responsible, you know about tact and empathy?
Your nation is obviously pretty new to terrorism. Give it another decade or so and you'll be able to crack jokes whilst the garbage can that's just exploded and taken out your family is still smouldering.
And then bitch about how it's made you late for work.
All jokes aside this time...
This whole tragedy made me really consider something as I drove to work last night:
If I were to be in a roadside bombing (as unlikely as that is), what would I do? Assuming I'm uninjured, do I
a) call work and let them know I'll be late on account of explosion
b) call the cops and let them know about my wrecked vehicle
It really made me put the situation of people living in warzones in perspective...I felt like a retarded manlet in that I couldn't devise an effective reaction plan to this trivial matter. Really upset me in a way my words can't cover...
Depends on what you value more the standard response is:
1) Get to safety.
2) Call the police. Even if it looks like others are doing this make sure you do. One of the worst things you hear about is someone collapsing from a heart attack and everyone assuming someone else called it in.
3) Call loved ones who might worry.
4) Call work.
If you know a bit about basic first aid you can try help others if there are any, but if not you are better off staying out of everyone way.
And make sure you get checked out because in an explosion there can be internal injuries that are not visible caused by the blast.
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 01:03:00 PM
Depends on what you value more the standard response is:
1) Get to safety.
2) Call the police. Even if it looks like others are doing this make sure you do. One of the worst things you hear about is someone collapsing from a heart attack and everyone assuming someone else called it in.
3) Call loved ones who might worry.
4) Call work.
If you know a bit about basic first aid you can try help others if there are any, but if not you are better off staying out of everyone way.
And make sure you get checked out because in an explosion there can be internal injuries that are not visible caused by the blast.
I work the late shift in a remote location so I didn't even think about potential victims...my drive last night saw me as the only car on the road for a good half kilometre. Basic first aid is definitely apart of my job, but damn...
You came up with a better response plan than I did...considering my career field, I'm highly embarassed, but I guess one can only learn lessons by dialogue with others...
I think I'll pose this question to other...having an effective response to tragedy is very important to me. (sorry btw if I'm beginning to sound more retarded than my normal degree thereof...I got off not long ago and have had a bit to drink since returning to my home...)
Two more people I know checked in overnight, and are home safe in Providence.
And I'm not putting money on anything or anyone. Bottom line is that there are sick fucks in this world, it doesn't matter what point they're trying to make.
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 02:03:38 PM
Two more people I know checked in overnight, and are home safe in Providence.
And I'm not putting money on anything or anyone. Bottom line is that there are sick fucks in this world, it doesn't matter what point they're trying to make.
glad they made it home safe...
My boyfriend put in into perspective for me last night.
I sat here, miserable. I was grumbling at PD, grumbling at Facebook, grumbling at BBC and CNN, checking my phone every 45 seconds, and he came out of the bedroom and closed my computer.
"Stop looking at it. It does more harm to your mind than good."
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 05:07:13 AM
Youre fine pix. I was actually touched that your status on fb said you were glad lmno eve and i were ok. You werent minimizing anything.
:)
Cain, thanks for that background, it was a very good read.
Something going on in Canton, which is about halfway between Boston and Providence on I-95. Looks like it could be nothing, but it's best to check everything out right now.
http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x1431008269/Canton-police-investigating-report-of-suspicious-device
Cain, I found that a good read and very informative.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 06:38:54 AM
There is also a long pedigree of right wing extremism in the US. It tends to fly lower on the radar, because it raises the disturbing thought that terrorism is endemic to modern political life, rather than a manifestation of an "evil other" located outside of the nation-state, either literally or through custom and practice. Fortunately, such groups tend to be small and disinclined to work with each other due to the petty political posturing of their various leaders, and it is thoroughly infiltrated by FBI informants (a point I will touch on later).
Excellent piece, Cain. The above paragraph is, to my mind, the most important part.
Thanks all.
I can expand on that a bit if you'd like, Roger?
I'd be very interested to read more.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 04:55:43 PM
Thanks all.
I can expand on that a bit if you'd like, Roger?
Please do.
QuoteRecall the words of Gianfranco Sanguinetti, "The State has been declaring for years that it is fighting the R.B.'s, it infiltrated them several times without ever attempting to dismantle them, therefore the State makes use of the R.B.'s as a cover, because the R.B.s are useful to this State, therefore R.B. = the State."
Cain, Regarding the above is there a fools guide to spotting the difference between false flag ops and lone crazies?
I'm leaning away from it being anything Islamic or Religious in general as those groups tend to claim credit for their actions fairly swiftly. I'd figure in this day and age prepping your Youtube video and Press Propaganda will probably involve as much effort as the actual act.
I've still pretty much no idea what to make of all this.
I'm currently blaming Lance Armstrong. Seems about as good a guess as any.
Cain, that was absolutely fantastic.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 09:10:16 AM
I pretty much missed this, catching up now.
Am I the only one to wonder if there was something super valuable in that library that won't be noticed now?
Everyone else seems under suspicion, I'd just like to accuse possible book thieves too.
Seriously though, glad you lot are OK.
Could be. There's some old stuff in there, as you can imagine. But I don't know how plausible blowing up the Marathon is for stealing a centuries old book. Especially if it was noticed missing in connection with the blast. You'd never be able to sell it.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 09:10:16 AM
I pretty much missed this, catching up now.
Am I the only one to wonder if there was something super valuable in that library that won't be noticed now?
Everyone else seems under suspicion, I'd just like to accuse possible book thieves too.
Seriously though, glad you lot are OK.
Could be. There's some old stuff in there, as you can imagine. But I don't know how plausible blowing up the Marathon is for stealing a centuries old book. Especially if it was noticed missing in connection with the blast. You'd never be able to sell it.
It's plausible. Setting off a bomb one on end of town to commit a crime on the other is an old trick.
But if your hear hoofbeats coming down the road, it's probably not a zebra, if you follow me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 09:10:16 AM
I pretty much missed this, catching up now.
Am I the only one to wonder if there was something super valuable in that library that won't be noticed now?
Everyone else seems under suspicion, I'd just like to accuse possible book thieves too.
Seriously though, glad you lot are OK.
Could be. There's some old stuff in there, as you can imagine. But I don't know how plausible blowing up the Marathon is for stealing a centuries old book. Especially if it was noticed missing in connection with the blast. You'd never be able to sell it.
It's plausible. Setting off a bomb one on end of town to commit a crime on the other is an old trick.
But if your hear hoofbeats coming down the road, it's probably not a zebra, if you follow me.
I follow. But the Library was right by the blast. I'm trying to think if the Library would even be open.
Actually, it wouldn't, since it was Patriot's Day.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 04:55:43 PM
Thanks all.
I can expand on that a bit if you'd like, Roger?
I'd like to see it expanded, too. I need to absorb every bit of it.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 04:55:43 PM
Thanks all.
I can expand on that a bit if you'd like, Roger?
I'd like to see it expanded, too. I need to absorb every bit of it.
This
One distressing thing: Too many cops in military outfits. The public needs to see cops that look like cops, not cops that look like soldiers. It's all about the message sent.
Cops: This was a crime. We will solve it.
Soldiers: This is some kind of military action.
Yeah. It's one more Threatening Thing on top of everything else.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
One distressing thing: Too many cops in military outfits. The public needs to see cops that look like cops, not cops that look like soldiers. It's all about the message sent.
Cops: This was a crime. We will solve it.
Soldiers: This is some kind of military action.
Good point. It legitimizes terrorism.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
One distressing thing: Too many cops in military outfits. The public needs to see cops that look like cops, not cops that look like soldiers. It's all about the message sent.
Cops: This was a crime. We will solve it.
Soldiers: This is some kind of military action.
Good point. It legitimizes terrorism.
Also, for all the grumbling people do about cops, for all the real abuses that cops indulge in, the fact remains that when shit goes sideways, people want cops. Not soldiers, which implies a continuing environment of violence.
Uptheenthed for more sweet, sweet Cain analysis by the by. More Cain enables more sense of fucked up occasions.
The library fire - I do doubt that any incidental fires were covers for other crimes, it just seemed worth raising as a possibility, I've got no idea about the contents of the library, just figured there was an outside chance. I would doubt anything stolen would be sold/resold though. More of a one hit permanent acquisition.
Possibly unrelated - Hearing random shit about this now being IRA related. No claim from any group as far as I know however and they tended to own up fairly quickly. It does have some of the hallmarks (Seems the bomb was a nailbomb, in a bin.) but little else. The target makes fuck all sense in that case too, unless someone really fucking hated plastic paddies. More information and less bullshit required really.
Edits. Edits everywhere for sense.
This is pretty awesome http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
Uptheenthed by the by, more cain enables more sense of fucked up occasions.
I do doubt that any incidental fires were covers for other crimes, it just seemed worth raising as a possibility, I've got no idea about the contents of the library, just figured there was an outside chance. I would doubt anything stolen would be sold/resold though. More of a one hit permanent acquisition.
Hearing random shit about this now being IRA related. No claim from any group as far as I know however and they tended to own up fairly quickly. It does have some of the hallmarks (Seems the bomb was a nailbomb, in a bin.) but little else. The target makes fuck all sense in that case too, unless someone really fucking hated plastic paddies. More information and less bullshit required really.
I heard ball bearings, not nails. :?
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 06:06:15 PM
This is pretty awesome http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/
That guy or girl is awesome.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 06:06:15 PM
This is pretty awesome http://bostonmarathonconspiracy.com/
That is fucking AMAZING.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 06:07:14 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
Uptheenthed by the by, more cain enables more sense of fucked up occasions.
I do doubt that any incidental fires were covers for other crimes, it just seemed worth raising as a possibility, I've got no idea about the contents of the library, just figured there was an outside chance. I would doubt anything stolen would be sold/resold though. More of a one hit permanent acquisition.
Hearing random shit about this now being IRA related. No claim from any group as far as I know however and they tended to own up fairly quickly. It does have some of the hallmarks (Seems the bomb was a nailbomb, in a bin.) but little else. The target makes fuck all sense in that case too, unless someone really fucking hated plastic paddies. More information and less bullshit required really.
I heard ball bearings, not nails. :?
Same concept. Bomb in a backpack full of shrapnel (ball bearings, nails, fiberglass), dropped into a trash can.
IRA involvement in Boston would be nothing new, unfortunately. Though I don't think anything has happened with them for a while. :/
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
One distressing thing: Too many cops in military outfits. The public needs to see cops that look like cops, not cops that look like soldiers. It's all about the message sent.
Cops: This was a crime. We will solve it.
Soldiers: This is some kind of military action.
I would think that is pretty much the exact message they are trying to send. "If it impacts on over X many people, we WILL get the army involved. Do not fuck with us."
This would apply as much to those at home as it would those abroad.
I'm still trying to get a handle on the basics, Do not take anything I say as truth because I honestly don't fucking know.
This applies to pretty much everything I say and do in case anyone missed that yet.
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/gss-130415-boston-marathon-explosion/gss-130416-boston-1040a.grid-8x2.jpg)
vs
(http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-130415-boston-bombing/ss-130415-boston-bombing-04.ss_full.jpg)
And no, it wasn't the damn IRA. Boston is one of their top donation centers. They aren't going to shit all over the golden goose.
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/person-briefed-boston-marathon-explosives-made-of-pressure-cookers-with-metal-ball-bearings
Also says
QuoteThe Pakistani Taliban, which has threatened attacks in the United States because of its support for the Pakistani government, on Tuesday denied any role in the marathon bombings.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:10:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
One distressing thing: Too many cops in military outfits. The public needs to see cops that look like cops, not cops that look like soldiers. It's all about the message sent.
Cops: This was a crime. We will solve it.
Soldiers: This is some kind of military action.
I would think that is pretty much the exact message they are trying to send. "If it impacts on over X many people, we WILL get the army involved. Do not fuck with us."
This would apply as much to those at home as it would those abroad.
I think there's a combination of:
We don't know what else to do, vs
Get the public used to military policing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:12:34 PM
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/gss-130415-boston-marathon-explosion/gss-130416-boston-1040a.grid-8x2.jpg)
vs
(http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-130415-boston-bombing/ss-130415-boston-bombing-04.ss_full.jpg)
And no, it wasn't the damn IRA. Boston is one of their top donation centers. They aren't going to shit all over the golden goose.
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 06:13:27 PM
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/person-briefed-boston-marathon-explosives-made-of-pressure-cookers-with-metal-ball-bearings
Also says
QuoteThe Pakistani Taliban, which has threatened attacks in the United States because of its support for the Pakistani government, on Tuesday denied any role in the marathon bombings.
From the same article:
Quote
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel called the bombing a "cruel act of terror." He said that any event with explosive devices is clearly an act of terror and he promised that a thorough investigation will determine whether the perpetrators were foreign or domestic. The Pentagon chief vowed that those responsible will be brought to justice.
Would that include drones, Secretary Hagel?
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
Quote from: stelz on April 16, 2013, 06:13:27 PM
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/person-briefed-boston-marathon-explosives-made-of-pressure-cookers-with-metal-ball-bearings
Also says
QuoteThe Pakistani Taliban, which has threatened attacks in the United States because of its support for the Pakistani government, on Tuesday denied any role in the marathon bombings.
Well I would guess that rules them further out.
I think the public is pretty comfortable with Military policing now. The standard civilian reaction to a police officer and a solider seems pretty much the same - Obey the nice gentleman with the gun. Now.
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up. That's why I couldn't make sense of accusations coming their way.
Foreign terrorist cells are relatively quick to take credit for such things so they can get press time, correct?
I'm pretty sure this is something state-side anyway, but I still don't want to jump to conclusions.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
This is the same type of person who talks about how the filthy socialists are trying to overthrown the government of the United States. And then goes and funds a bunch of filthy socialists trying to overthrow the government of Northern Ireland.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
There's probably a rant in how many stupid fucking things have been done so people feel like "Real Men"
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.
You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 06:20:00 PM
Foreign terrorist cells are relatively quick to take credit for such things so they can get press time, correct?
I'm pretty sure this is something state-side anyway, but I still don't want to jump to conclusions.
That's what I've seen. Plan, execute, surviving members release "HA! GOT YOU!" videos.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:21:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
There's probably a rant in how many stupid fucking things have been done so people feel like "Real Men"
Oh, gods. ^this^
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
I hate calling them Irish Americans. (they are fucking AMERICAN) Passport entitlement or GTFO. Growing up with MY surname and my dad in the 80's in the UK. Not good. Anyway. I should probably log out, as NORAID and "Irish"-Americans is not a subject i can be charitable about, and I don't want to put my foot in my mouth or say something fucked up because of the shit I grew up in. Like being asked if my dad was a terrorist, and other racist bullshit. I said some kind of fucked up shit post 9-11 related to all this. I know better now, but. emotive.
17th December 1978, there was a bomb planted in Southampton, 6 months before I was conceived. This is why my mum put her foot down about my first name being a explicitly Irish one.
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
This is the same type of person who talks about how the filthy socialists are trying to overthrown the government of the United States. And then goes and funds a bunch of filthy socialists trying to overthrow the government of Northern Ireland.
And this is why Twid is my favourite Irish American, EVER (he has a passport too so, you know. IRISH.)
Forget I said anything.
In other news, some fucking basement dwelling nerds are getting butthurt over not being able to bring their prop weapons to Boston Comic Con this weekend. You know, at the Hynes Convention Center, the one that is across the street from where the bombs went off. The one that you access by public transportation and have to walk through 1 or 2 shopping malls to get to.
The fact they're not postponing the con is beyond me, but the fact that idiots are seriously reeling over not being able to play dress up with guns is downright disrespectful. If your fucking props matter more to you than the lives of others, you need to re-think your fucking purpose in life. Douchenozzle dumfuckimus prime.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.
Right then.
Terrorism in the modern world likely has a number of underlying, systemic causes. Looking internationally, the post 1918 and post 1945 settlements in particular must share some blame. After WWI, Woodrow Wilson blamed the violence in the Balkans on nationalism by groups seeking self-determination and states. By giving them a state, violence would be avoided.
This principle was built upon by the UN. Resolution 1514 states that "all peoples have the right to self-determination and membership of international society...and colonialism is a crime, which constitutes a violation of the charter of the United Nations." Therefore, all non-state actors which claim to represent a people are, in theory, considered legitimate and have a right to self-determination and state-formation.
The unfortunate truth is that, of course, this is not how it really works. By placing special emphasis on the nation-state as the legitimate political unit of global politics, it helps perpetuate intractable conflict, as existing states emphasize their "sovereign" rights and minority groups claim a right to political and violent resistance.
Even in "liberal" states this can be the case, as a consistently outvoted and outnumbered minority fail to get represenation on the political level they feel justified to. While in theory liberal states are representative, states are always ethnically, religiously, linguistically and territorially arbitrary. Thus political grievances will arise, and some people will resort to violence to try and settle them.
In fact, the existence of liberal states is owed to political violence, in particular the French Revolution. The philosophies of the Enlightenment helped create a theory of "natural rights" which justified tyrannicide, then revolution, then terror, and were instrumental in the creation of modern terrorism as we understand it. One can easily see how these ideas link in with the idealist views of the UN and Woodrow Wilson.
State violence is frequently decisive in the formation of terrorist groups. Donatella della Porta argues that the strategy chosen by the state is often instrumental in the develop-ment of anti-state terrorism. She suggests the existence of the 'radicalisation of protest'. This happens to political demonstrations that start peacefully and culminate in violence, and result in the creation of potential terrorist groups that are driven underground by harsh state oppression.
And, of course, should a terrorist campaign result in the successful establishment of a state, that state will likely employ violence in a similar manner, creating it's own terrorist problems. Israel and Algeria come to mind. Terrorism propagates states which propagate terrorism which propagate states ad infinitum.
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 06:39:34 PM
In other news, some fucking basement dwelling nerds are getting butthurt over not being able to bring their prop weapons to Boston Comic Con this weekend. You know, at the Hynes Convention Center, the one that is across the street from where the bombs went off. The one that you access by public transportation and have to walk through 1 or 2 shopping malls to get to.
The fact they're not postponing the con is beyond me, but the fact that idiots are seriously reeling over not being able to play dress up with guns is downright disrespectful. If your fucking props matter more to you than the lives of others, you need to re-think your fucking purpose in life. Douchenozzle dumfuckimus prime.
Any change in behavior is going belly up to terrorism. Let 'em play with their toys.
Anything else is cowardice as a social norm.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
as i said. Berserk Button topic. You could be locked up for a week without charge by the Special Branch in London charge (usually 48 hours) back when that was going on. Innocent London Irish fell foul of that one on more than a few occasions.
I have D&D now, so gotta go. I probably should have stayed shut up.
Sorry.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.
I was trying to clarify this insistent accusation that the "US" is funding the IRA, which at least two people said but then won't discuss. Then it became who gets to be Irish and who gets excluded.
Fuck this noise, I'm just going to read Cain's last post, and then leave this subject. I am fucking TIRED of EVERYTHING turning into weird accusations of cultural appropriation, etc.
Neither of my points got fucking addressed. I was answered BY REFLEX, and therefore AM NOT A PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THIS DISCUSSION.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 06:40:39 PM
State violence is frequently decisive in the formation of terrorist groups. Donatella della Porta argues that the strategy chosen by the state is often instrumental in the develop-ment of anti-state terrorism. She suggests the existence of the 'radicalisation of protest'. This happens to political demonstrations that start peacefully and culminate in violence, and result in the creation of potential terrorist groups that are driven underground by harsh state oppression.
Seems fairly intuitive. Live by the sword, etc, etc.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.
I was trying to clarify this insistent accusation that the "US" is funding the IRA, which at least two people said but then won't discuss. Then it became who gets to be Irish and who gets excluded.
Fuck this noise, I'm just going to read Cain's last post, and then leave this subject. I am fucking TIRED of EVERYTHING turning into weird accusations of cultural appropriation, etc.
Neither of my points got fucking addressed. I was answered BY REFLEX, and therefore AM NOT A PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THIS DISCUSSION.
No, it was a good point. It's a group of people living in one part of the US, not the US, which is allied with the UK. State sponsored terrorism, it is not.
Yup. But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not. As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
Yup. But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not. As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.
Obviously. If I ran the state, and thus controlled the funding to universities and the like, that's how I'd have it taught.
Actually, I wouldn't, which is among many other reasons that I will never run a state, and if I did run a state, would have a lifespan of say, Saturday.
Quote from: Cain on April 16, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
Yup. But a good amount of terrorism theory is devoted to explaining why the state's violence is legitimate, and terrorist violence is not. As opposed to, you know, trying to explain why terrorist violence occurs.
So, even terrorism theory has a lot of us vs them mentality to it.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
I hate calling them Irish Americans.
Call them whatever you like. I'm describing a phenomenon, not the correct labels as we'd all like to see them.
It's a good enough descriptor of them. They're Americans of Irish descent. Getting off topic though.
I was trying to clarify this insistent accusation that the "US" is funding the IRA, which at least two people said but then won't discuss. Then it became who gets to be Irish and who gets excluded.
Fuck this noise, I'm just going to read Cain's last post, and then leave this subject. I am fucking TIRED of EVERYTHING turning into weird accusations of cultural appropriation, etc.
Neither of my points got fucking addressed. I was answered BY REFLEX, and therefore AM NOT A PERSON WITH RESPECT TO THIS DISCUSSION.
No, it was a good point. It's a group of people living in one part of the US, not the US, which is allied with the UK. State sponsored terrorism, it is not.
Well, let's just say that I have a "berserk button" of my own, and that is being shouted down for being insufficiently politically correct when trying to make a point.
And the fact that a piece of paper makes you a member of an ethnicity, but direct descent does not. And the fact that the label, the map, is now far more important than the object or territory...No, is the ONLY important thing.
My argument has been completely silenced, and neither person who made the initial statements will come near them...And now they don't have to.
WELL FUCKING DONE. VICTORY. And shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.
You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".
I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.
QuoteTherefore, all non-state actors which claim to represent a people are, in theory, considered legitimate and have a right to self-determination and state-formation.
Shot in the dark, the tipping point for "a people" (Can't think how better to phrase this) being seen as legitimate is essentially the power to threaten the ruling nation state in some way(terror/strike action?). Does this mean that the smaller minority groups are doomed? I'm thinking this could be a prelude to a massive ongoing africa clusterfuck. Or the ongoing africa clusterfuck. One of them.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.
You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".
I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.
So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale? Or that everyone in America does it?
By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.
"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"
Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 06:58:50 PM
"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"
Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.
Fortunately, I'll be taking the E line.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:00:01 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 06:58:50 PM
"If its possible try to avoid downtown they found a suspicious package in the bridge that connects the Westin and convention center, roads are blocked building evacuated"
Text I just got. Probably a false alarm like Laguardia was this morning, at least I hope.
Fortunately, I'll be taking the E line.
I'm talking about Providence.
Looks like it was a false alarm: http://www.turnto10.com/story/21992929/police-block-off-area-around-omni-hotel#.UW2QcmVYniQ.facebook
You know what? Fuck this shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.
You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".
I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.
So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale? Or that everyone in America does it?
By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.
That's not what I was trying to describe at all, sorry. I'm referring to any individuals only. No implication was intended to the general populace or government.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:18:05 PM
edit - And the US/IRA relationship is beyond fucked up.
You know, there's nothing quite like having some drunks in Boston getting all weepy-eyed and donating to the IRA being labeled as "the US/IRA relationship".
I couldn't think of a better way to label it. The flow of support/favours either way must obviously be mutual and I'm sure it's not all for the motherland. I'd put good money on arms, drugs, cash and more moving either way. The line between "terror cell" and "criminal enterprise for personal gain" seems a lot smaller now. I'd guess most ideological idiots have got themselves killed and the Viziers have taken over.
So it is your position that the funding of the IRA is done on a national scale? Or that everyone in America does it?
By that standard, the existence of the BNP tells me that all British people are Nazis.
That's not what I was trying to describe at all, sorry. I'm referring to any individuals only. No implication was intended to the general populace or government.
Odd, because of the words used, bolded above. But it doesn't matter, because my post apparently said something like
Quoteblah blah Irish-Americans blah blah
Because the politics of exclusion are obviously more important than the topic at hand. By that reasoning, incidentally, Nigel cannot be a Native American because she doesn't live on a reservation, and I'm not of Cornish descent because I don't live in Cornwall or have a passport.
And I learned that someone that I know to be intelligent cannot seem to see past a label used to describe an actual phenomenon, because it's too fucking important to lose your shit over the label, to show how committed that person is.
It's all fucking useless. Even the smart people are dumb. There's no fucking hope whatsoever.
Last one off the planet, turn out the lights.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
ETA: Ambrose Bierce was right.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
Alright.
Ah.
I was actually reading the wrong fucking post.
Regarding the bold, It was a terrible way to phrase it. I was adding in shorthand trying to describe a fairly intricate dynamic.
I'll try again:
The view certain individuals hold and romanticise about acts of terror over here are fucked up.
Good time to SHUT UP again really.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
Alright.
Yeah, I'm pretty much done bending over backwards to accomodate peoples' sensitivities of that sort, because when you do, they create more things to go berserk over. You can't fucking win, you can't break even, and you can't even have a conversation about it.
Radicalization is idiocy. Absolute fucking idiocy. On any level.
Which, amazingly enough, returns us to the topic at hand.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 07:16:14 PM
The view certain individuals hold and romanticise about acts of terror over here are fucked up.
That is a more accurate way of stating it.
QuoteGood time to SHUT UP again really.
There's never a good time to SHUT UP, because when you're dead, you'll SHUT UP LIKE HELL.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
Alright.
Yeah, I'm pretty much done bending over backwards to accomodate peoples' sensitivities of that sort, because when you do, they create more things to go berserk over. You can't fucking win, you can't break even, and you can't even have a conversation about it.
Radicalization is idiocy. Absolute fucking idiocy. On any level.
Which, amazingly enough, returns us to the topic at hand.
I think that Pix realizes that radicalization is idiocy too, and I think that's what she was trying to get across.
I imagine that it would be fairly refreshing to an Irish Briton to hear an Irish Bostonian say that Bostonian funds going to the IRA is bullshit, especially where the Briton was directly impacted by it.
But anyway, radicalization.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:21:53 PM
I think that Pix realizes that radicalization is idiocy too, and I think that's what she was trying to get across.
I don't know what she was trying to get across. Communication stopped when my point was ignored in favor of telling me how I was WRONG about who gets to be Irish and who doesn't.
I don't care who gets to be Irish. It had almost nothing to do with my point, because it certainly isn't ALL or MOST or even A GOOD CHUNK of Irish-Americans
1 that are contributing to the IRA.
Most Americans that donate to those scum are of Irish descent. Most people of Irish descent do not donate. There's probably a Venn diagram for this sort of thing.
1 Deal with it. I am no longer changing my language to appease others, unless I think I ought to.
QuoteBut anyway, radicalization.
Could someone 'shop "RADICALIZATION" into the "the more you know" star? Pretty sure it'll work and will be useful in future.
It's also important to note that practically no-one donates and funds terror groups. Especially your local drug dealer and dodgy DVD guy.
Terrorist groups have been providing poor returns this financial quarter. I would advise investors to get into something more lucrative, like the jenkem trade.
Anyway, I see the police are now appealing for video footage of the event.
No doubt they've been scouring the CCTV footage of the area, too.
You'd think there would be a lot.
Funny, enough our tangent reminded me that I still haven't contacted Grandpa or Dad. Getting on that now.
My apologies to Junk & Pixie for losing my cool.
I have articulated - far more calmly - my thoughts in another thread:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,34453.0.html
No apology needed on my part, it was badly worded after all.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
I know I'm late to this thread. Can I safely assume that someone has already pointed out what a COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED thing this is to say?
Relax, it's a Randroid Totse troll
Quote from: Balls Wellington on April 16, 2013, 08:20:33 PM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:46:44 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 16, 2013, 04:16:44 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on April 16, 2013, 04:03:50 AM
Anarchists don't do this kind of thing, they haven't since the depression. And even if they still did a marathon is not a target they'd go for. It'd be something connected to power.
This.
I'm betting right wing nutjob.
What makes this a more attractive target for a right winger than for an anarchist?
I mean, wouldn't a righty's ideology make this action seem loathsome for being an attack against his countrymen? It doesnt really jive with any of the right propaganda ive ever read...barring ueber-nuts groups like white nationalists (ok no euphemisms...nazis) or abortion-bombers...
My point is, a crazy anarchist could be equally responsible as a crazy right-winger...both would be attacking a not-so-ideal target if we go off of their politics, and both would share the aspect of crazy...
A few things. One is Anarchists don't bomb any longer, they tried it, it didn't work, and they don't do it. If one went off the rails and decided to bomb something they'd at least have picked a police station or a local bank, not a street at the end of a marathon which is actually more work than the previous two due to heightened security.
As far as right winger we can kind of assume the person is uber nuts, since they're bombing people, so your "barring ueber nuts" bit doesn't really make sense. Unless bombing is mainstream in the right wing. Also, those people aren't his country men, they are unamerican liberal homo loving socialists who his country would be better off without.
I think we're both oversimplifying the right to some degree. Im excluding the "bad" parts of the right (those who would have done this to spite those liberal homo loving socialists), because i am of the right and wish not to lump myself in with such scum...
You seem to be excluding the "good" part of the right (those that would have chosen targets more similar to your loose-cannon anarchist and minimalised casualties to his compatriots) in order to disentangle anarchism.
Tl;dr i think we have similar motives for our arguments from different sides of the table...
I know I'm late to this thread. Can I safely assume that someone has already pointed out what a COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED thing this is to say?
Actually, it struck me as someone blurting out something that everyone normally just thinks, when someone "on their team" does something ignorant or monstrous.
Well, having a "team" is COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED. So my point stands.
Quote from: Balls Wellington on April 16, 2013, 08:55:48 PM
Well, having a "team" is COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED. So my point stands.
Of course it is.
But people do it anyway. Or BECAUSE it's retarded.
I was just fascinated with the honesty expressed in the frankly horrifying explanation of his reluctance to consider a right wing zealot as a possible perpetrator.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: Balls Wellington on April 16, 2013, 08:55:48 PM
Well, having a "team" is COMPLETELY FUCKING RETARDED. So my point stands.
Of course it is.
But people do it anyway. Or BECAUSE it's retarded.
I was just fascinated with the honesty expressed in the frankly horrifying explanation of his reluctance to consider a right wing zealot as a possible perpetrator.
What's REALLY amazing is that the sentence I just typed is actually grammatically correct. It shouldn't be.
Heisenberg's grammar. It can't be coherent and correct at the same time.
(Actually, your sentence was coherent. The joke is insisting I write it anyway, however.)
He also seems to think Anarchy is a right-wing philosophy, unless I'm not reading it correctly.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Heisenberg's grammar. It can't be coherent and correct at the same time.
(Actually, your sentence was coherent. The joke is insisting I write it anyway, however.)
He also seems to think Anarchy is a right-wing philosophy, unless I'm not reading it correctly.
I read it as "it was the anarchists, not the right wingers".
Ah, yes. Apologies.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
No one wants to condemn their teammate.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
No one wants to condemn their teammate.
That's the Reagan Rule: Never publicly criticize another conservative.
Fuck that shit. Most of the people that agree with me are RETARDED, because most people IN GENERAL are retarded. I mean, look at me...I'm a fucking oaf that needs a hockey helmet and a backup alarm. EVERYONE needs to be criticized, at one point or another.
And if you can't do that when it's needed, then you're just another pinkboy with a uniform.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
No one wants to condemn their teammate.
That's the Reagan Rule: Never publicly criticize another conservative.
Fuck that shit. Most of the people that agree with me are RETARDED, because most people IN GENERAL are retarded. I mean, look at me...I'm a fucking oaf that needs a hockey helmet and a backup alarm. EVERYONE needs to be criticized, at one point or another.
And if you can't do that when it's needed, then you're just another pinkboy with a uniform.
Amen.
On an unrelated note--- what's the story behind your avatar? :lulz:
That's pavel patel isn't it. I posted a thread about him a while back:
Definitly not work safe in a fabulous way.
http://pavel-petel.tumblr.com/
Quote from: Faust on April 16, 2013, 10:21:21 PM
That's pavel patel isn't it. I posted a thread about him a while back:
Definitly not work safe in a fabulous way.
http://pavel-petel.tumblr.com/
:eek: :lulz:
Shit like him is why Russia exists. :lulz:
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 10:42:01 PM
Shit like him is why Russia exists. :lulz:
I can see that the cold isn't affecting him much :lulz:
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
No one wants to condemn their teammate.
That's the Reagan Rule: Never publicly criticize another conservative.
Fuck that shit. Most of the people that agree with me are RETARDED, because most people IN GENERAL are retarded. I mean, look at me...I'm a fucking oaf that needs a hockey helmet and a backup alarm. EVERYONE needs to be criticized, at one point or another.
And if you can't do that when it's needed, then you're just another pinkboy with a uniform.
Amen.
On an unrelated note--- what's the story behind your avatar? :lulz:
No idea. I keep finding these things on my hard drive. I suspect they spontaneously generate, like eels in river mud.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 10:43:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 10:42:01 PM
Shit like him is why Russia exists. :lulz:
I can see that the cold isn't affecting him much :lulz:
The glitter. :aaa: :eek: :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 10:46:19 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:57:08 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 16, 2013, 09:24:15 PM
Ah, yes. Apologies.
The REALLY interesting part is that, while acknowledging that one's side has fruitcakes is fairly easy, when a SPECIFIC fruitcake is brought up, things suddenly get all murky.
Sort of like when a trustafarian acknowledges that he/she has privilege, but then freaks out if you name one.
No one wants to condemn their teammate.
That's the Reagan Rule: Never publicly criticize another conservative.
Fuck that shit. Most of the people that agree with me are RETARDED, because most people IN GENERAL are retarded. I mean, look at me...I'm a fucking oaf that needs a hockey helmet and a backup alarm. EVERYONE needs to be criticized, at one point or another.
And if you can't do that when it's needed, then you're just another pinkboy with a uniform.
Amen.
On an unrelated note--- what's the story behind your avatar? :lulz:
No idea. I keep finding these things on my hard drive. I suspect they spontaneously generate, like eels in river mud.
That's awesome!
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 10:49:26 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 10:43:21 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 16, 2013, 10:42:01 PM
Shit like him is why Russia exists. :lulz:
I can see that the cold isn't affecting him much :lulz:
The glitter. :aaa: :eek: :lulz:
:lulz:
Watch that be Glittersnatch's doppelganger. Wonder where that dude is anyway.
I kind of like how the press is concentrating on the reaction of the crowd, runners, EMTS, etc.
A bunch of stories about regular joes doing the right thing in a crisis...The way everyone would like to think they'd act in a similar situation.
The guy in Revere has been cleared, incidentally.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:05:16 PM
I kind of like how the press is concentrating on the reaction of the crowd, runners, EMTS, etc.
A bunch of stories about regular joes doing the right thing in a crisis...The way everyone would like to think they'd act in a similar situation.
I don't know how I would have reacted if I were there, and I admit that. I might have ran.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
The guy in Revere has been cleared, incidentally.
He was the guy who was tackled because he was Arab and trying to run away from the bomb, yeah?
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:05:16 PM
I kind of like how the press is concentrating on the reaction of the crowd, runners, EMTS, etc.
A bunch of stories about regular joes doing the right thing in a crisis...The way everyone would like to think they'd act in a similar situation.
I don't know how I would have reacted if I were there, and I admit that. I might have ran.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:05:40 PM
The guy in Revere has been cleared, incidentally.
He was the guy who was tackled because he was Arab and trying to run away from the bomb, yeah?
One of them. There may have been two.
Also gonna say that this is yet more proof that eyewitness testimony is utter shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:46:15 PM
Also gonna say that this is yet more proof that eyewitness testimony is utter shit.
Yeah, definitely. Especially because there's no reason why someone wouldn't run away from an explosion. That doesn't make you suspicious, that makes you someone who values your life. Then there's the mysterious black guy wearing a black hoodie carrying a black bag. And the guy on the roof. I'm glad that the authorities are treating this cautiously, and that the Revere guy's been cleared. I can't imagine being questioned about that sort of thing is a pleasant experience.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 11:49:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:46:15 PM
Also gonna say that this is yet more proof that eyewitness testimony is utter shit.
Yeah, definitely. Especially because there's no reason why someone wouldn't run away from an explosion. That doesn't make you suspicious, that makes you someone who values your life. Then there's the mysterious black guy wearing a black hoodie carrying a black bag. And the guy on the roof. I'm glad that the authorities are treating this cautiously, and that the Revere guy's been cleared. I can't imagine being questioned about that sort of thing is a pleasant experience.
No, I don't mean that, I mean the fact that no two people, and no two EMS departments can agree on a single fucking detail.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 11:49:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 11:46:15 PM
Also gonna say that this is yet more proof that eyewitness testimony is utter shit.
Yeah, definitely. Especially because there's no reason why someone wouldn't run away from an explosion. That doesn't make you suspicious, that makes you someone who values your life. Then there's the mysterious black guy wearing a black hoodie carrying a black bag. And the guy on the roof. I'm glad that the authorities are treating this cautiously, and that the Revere guy's been cleared. I can't imagine being questioned about that sort of thing is a pleasant experience.
No, I don't mean that, I mean the fact that no two people, and no two EMS departments can agree on a single fucking detail.
Ah, I see. Yeah. Especially with something as chaotic as a bombing in a place with a lot of people.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:21:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
Alright.
Yeah, I'm pretty much done bending over backwards to accomodate peoples' sensitivities of that sort, because when you do, they create more things to go berserk over. You can't fucking win, you can't break even, and you can't even have a conversation about it.
Radicalization is idiocy. Absolute fucking idiocy. On any level.
Which, amazingly enough, returns us to the topic at hand.
I think that Pix realizes that radicalization is idiocy too, and I think that's what she was trying to get across.
I imagine that it would be fairly refreshing to an Irish Briton to hear an Irish Bostonian say that Bostonian funds going to the IRA is bullshit, especially where the Briton was directly impacted by it.
This. FYI, I've had this standpoint on private American citizens funding the IRA since before I got any sort of interest in politics beyond being a little bit socialist. 10+ fucking years.
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:06:01 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:21:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:13:51 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 16, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
You know what? Fuck this shit.
I agree with you that the phrasing US/IRA relationship is highly inaccurate, and implies guilt on the part of all Americans.
As far as a piece of paper identifying me as Irish, it does, insofar as it means that I am allowed to legally reside in Ireland with no extra paperwork. Though, I do consider Irish Americans to be a semi-distinct group, since it has evolved on its own on this continent. They are ethnically Irish, and culturally Irish, but that culture is Americanized.
Simultaneously, if a black kid is born and raised Athlone, I consider him and Irish kid of African descent. If he was born in Ireland and then raised in Moscow, then, well, it probably becomes a mouthful at this point, so let's call him Yuri McDonald. National identity is not as simple as blood or citizenship. And I think what Pix was appreciating was that I'm an American of Irish descent who gets that the Irish pride that is fairly rampant here has a lot of stupidity and half-understanding behind it, and that probably has something to do that I do have close connections with Ireland.
It doesn't matter.
Alright.
Yeah, I'm pretty much done bending over backwards to accomodate peoples' sensitivities of that sort, because when you do, they create more things to go berserk over. You can't fucking win, you can't break even, and you can't even have a conversation about it.
Radicalization is idiocy. Absolute fucking idiocy. On any level.
Which, amazingly enough, returns us to the topic at hand.
I think that Pix realizes that radicalization is idiocy too, and I think that's what she was trying to get across.
I imagine that it would be fairly refreshing to an Irish Briton to hear an Irish Bostonian say that Bostonian funds going to the IRA is bullshit, especially where the Briton was directly impacted by it.
This. FYI, I've had this standpoint on private American citizens funding the IRA since before I got any sort of interest in politics beyond being a little bit socialist. 10+ fucking years.
I imagine a lot of the support has dried up since 2001, and I imagine that even more of it will dry up now. It's easy not to think too much about it when it's somewhere else. I do remember my grandmother referring to Sinn Fein as rats, and that might be one of the things that set them apart from the glorified conception of Republicanism that Bostonians tend to have.
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Which, is an interesting sort of reverse colonialism, now that I think about it.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Yup.
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:39:25 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Yup.
This is why I consider myself a tentative Unionist.
If Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK, who am I, even if I were born and raised in the Republic, to say that they shouldn't?
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:39:25 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Yup.
This is why I consider myself a tentative Unionist.
If Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK, who am I, even if I were born and raised in the Republic, to say that they shouldn't?
This is politics.
It is the stuff of primates.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 02:13:32 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:39:25 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Yup.
This is why I consider myself a tentative Unionist.
If Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK, who am I, even if I were born and raised in the Republic, to say that they shouldn't?
This is politics.
It is the stuff of primates.
Indeed, but I am leaving it to the primates in question. Even if I was raised in my dad's hometown, I would have the same perspective. I don't live there, let them decide what they want to do.
Which, I hope, means that I stood up on two feet.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 02:13:32 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:39:25 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Pixie on April 17, 2013, 12:16:50 AM
I actually don't give a fuck about how people identify themselves in terms of ancestry, what I give a fuck about is when those people who supposedly SHARE my origins in an ancestral sense make life harder for those closer to where they consider home.
In this case, Irish Americans thinking they know what's best for Ireland, disregarding how the homeland Irish and Irish Britons may feel about it.
Yup.
This is why I consider myself a tentative Unionist.
If Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the UK, who am I, even if I were born and raised in the Republic, to say that they shouldn't?
This is politics.
It is the stuff of primates.
Indeed, but I am leaving it to the primates in question. Even if I was raised in my dad's hometown, I would have the same perspective. I don't live there, let them decide what they want to do.
Obviously.
I don't see what this has to do with the subject, though. I am reasonably sure that drunken people of Irish descent are not hunting down IRA bagmen and beating them until they accept the money. No, I'm reasonably sure said bagman buys a round or two, gets them all singing sentimental Irish shit, and then puts the arm on them.
Ask me how I know this.
In any case, this whole "MURRIKANS TELLING TEH POOR IRISH WAT TO DO" line is a crock of bullshit. They let the bagman squeeze 'em a bit, they've done their part for the auld sod or whatever the fuck you call it, and then they can feel nice & Irish until next month.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 12:23:31 AM
Which, is an interesting sort of reverse colonialism, now that I think about it.
Oh, for the love of fuck.
:facepalm:
Let me try THIS scenario on you:
Cynical IRA fuckwads spend some time on this side of the pond, playing on emigre guilt so they can gather up enough fucking scratch to buy petrol bombs or training in Libya or power drills for using on the fucking neighbor's kneecaps, and then it's MURRIKA'S fault because you stupid bastards absolutely INSIST on being homicidal fuckwits.
How does that sound? A tad offensive, perhaps?
Or THIS one:
Guy comes up and hits you for a buck. You give him the dollar.
Some other guy starts ranting and raving about how you shouldn't be telling the first guy what to do.
I'm glad none of you Boston spags are dead or hurt. First time I could get to a comp with time enough to say that.
Rog, I'm not sure I understand what you're going for. I'm not blaming Americans for anything. I'm just noting that it's interesting that people of Irish descent here feel that they understand and know what's best for the homeland.
Freeky, thanks. I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
Same here.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
Rog, I'm not sure I understand what you're going for. I'm not blaming Americans for anything. I'm just noting that it's interesting that people of Irish descent here feel that they understand and know what's best for the homeland.
Freeky, thanks. I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
That's the bone of contention, here. They don't know, and they don't WANT to know. They want to ease their emigre guilt a bit, so they throw some cash at some guy who tells them that, as A True Irish Patriot, he DOES in fact know.
Also, I have been told by reliable sources IN THIS VERY THREAD that Ireland ISN'T their "homeland".
So I'm not buying this line of horseshit. America may in fact be one gigantic asshole, BUT: To pretend that it is the ONLY asshole and thus the source of EVERY PROBLEM ON EARTH or at least trying to DICTATE to everybody with a problem on this Earth is Goddamn intellectual laziness at its worst. In fact, it's a Goddamn COMA.
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on April 17, 2013, 03:05:03 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
Same here.
It's surprising how many people you know when this sort of thing happens. You're going to miss at least one. This one was a definite, OFUK. followed by kicking yourself. It's all in the friend sphere at this point. Family are all accounted for. And I talked to my grandfather, so he knows I'm ok. I have to get a hold of dad tomorrow.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:07:53 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
Rog, I'm not sure I understand what you're going for. I'm not blaming Americans for anything. I'm just noting that it's interesting that people of Irish descent here feel that they understand and know what's best for the homeland.
Freeky, thanks. I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
That's the bone of contention, here. They don't know, and they don't WANT to know. They want to ease their emigre guilt a bit, so they throw some cash at some guy who tells them that, as A True Irish Patriot, he DOES in fact know.
Also, I have been told by reliable sources IN THIS VERY THREAD that Ireland ISN'T their "homeland".
So I'm not buying this line of horseshit. America may in fact be one gigantic asshole, BUT: To pretend that it is the ONLY asshole and thus the source of EVERY PROBLEM ON EARTH or at least trying to DICTATE to everybody with a problem on this Earth is Goddamn intellectual laziness at its worst. In fact, it's a Goddamn COMA.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I admit that though I am a citizen of Ireland, that Boston is my homeland. I'm just not connecting the dots.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:10:20 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:07:53 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:03:18 AM
Rog, I'm not sure I understand what you're going for. I'm not blaming Americans for anything. I'm just noting that it's interesting that people of Irish descent here feel that they understand and know what's best for the homeland.
Freeky, thanks. I've thought of other people who haven't checked in yet, within my personal sphere. Hoping for the best.
That's the bone of contention, here. They don't know, and they don't WANT to know. They want to ease their emigre guilt a bit, so they throw some cash at some guy who tells them that, as A True Irish Patriot, he DOES in fact know.
Also, I have been told by reliable sources IN THIS VERY THREAD that Ireland ISN'T their "homeland".
So I'm not buying this line of horseshit. America may in fact be one gigantic asshole, BUT: To pretend that it is the ONLY asshole and thus the source of EVERY PROBLEM ON EARTH or at least trying to DICTATE to everybody with a problem on this Earth is Goddamn intellectual laziness at its worst. In fact, it's a Goddamn COMA.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and I admit that though I am a citizen of Ireland, that Boston is my homeland. I'm just not connecting the dots.
Dots:
1. Irish guy secretly thinks he isn't Irish enough, because he lives in North America.
2. Cynical bagman for the IRA capitalizes on that guilt to fund all manner of nonsense, in the name of FREE IRELAND or whatever the fuck.
3. This somehow equates to MURRIKANS telling Ireland what to do.
Also, the very notion of being utterly severed from your heritage by means of immigration - as mentioned earlier, to do with "Irish-Americans" being some heinously offensive term - is utter rot and nonsense.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:16:05 AM
Also, the very notion of being utterly severed from your heritage by means of immigration - as mentioned earlier, to do with "Irish-Americans" being some heinously offensive term - is utter rot and nonsense.
I agree, which is why I don't quite understand the MURRICANS aspect.
My mother has no recent immigration. I consider her an Irish-American only in that her Irishness has been Americanized. She just happens to strike me as very Bostonian.
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that what we're getting stuck on is that you're perceiving my comments as Americans shouldn't comment on Ireland, whereas I am saying is that for various reasons, Americans of Irish descent might not have a good handle of what's going on in Ireland and are dealing with more noise than signal.
I'm not getting where the offense comes in. I'm Irish, American, and Irish-American. I don't feel offended by your hypotheticals.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:32:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:16:05 AM
Also, the very notion of being utterly severed from your heritage by means of immigration - as mentioned earlier, to do with "Irish-Americans" being some heinously offensive term - is utter rot and nonsense.
I agree, which is why I don't quite understand the MURRICANS aspect.
Dunno, you tell me. Somehow the situation I described is "reverse colonialism".
Short answer, I think, is that the intellectual laziness going on around here is getting a little fucked up.
White + Male + American + Middle Class = privilege. I don't think anyone outside of the teabaggers would argue this.
HOWEVER
White + Male + American + Middle Class = ALWAYS responsible for EVERYONE'S BAD ACTS is just plain Goddamn LAZY. It's a substitute for THINKING. Why think, when you know who's to blame, right?
So some cheeseball in Boston or NYC or Chicago or St Johns that thinks singing Erin-Go-Brawl (or whatever the fuck it is) and donating some cash when he has 6 glasses of knockoff Guiness in him will somehow connect him to his roots is the BAD GUY, and the IRA bagman who actively pursues that money to buy more Makita drills for the kneecaps of the <name of weird, incomprehensible faction here> is being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, because THAT, my little Interbutt Misery-Monkeys, gives us all that soft glow of self-righteous indignation WITHOUT ALL THE WORK OF ACTUALLY ANALYZING THE PROBLEM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:33:32 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:32:24 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:16:05 AM
Also, the very notion of being utterly severed from your heritage by means of immigration - as mentioned earlier, to do with "Irish-Americans" being some heinously offensive term - is utter rot and nonsense.
I agree, which is why I don't quite understand the MURRICANS aspect.
Dunno, you tell me. Somehow the situation I described is "reverse colonialism".
Maybe I worded it poorly then.
I'm just speaking from my experiences of Irishness in Boston. You still see graffiti here saying "Up the RA" which is the same as saying "go Jihad" in my book. As I understand it, the Irish Irish, since we can't call them Homeland Irish. Hibernian Irish? Irish Hibernians? have a certain animosity towards how Irish-American American-Irish feel they have a pulse on what is actually going on, and what is right for the Republic (of Ireland) and the Kingdom (of Ireland, aka Northern Ireland). There is also animosity within the Republic, towards Republicans, as there is in the Kingdom. It's a very complex situation. I make a poor citizen of the Republic in that, I don't quite understand the whole thing. I make an excellent Irish-American in that, I say, I get this a bit. I get it enough to wash my hands and say, let the North decide. The War was over a long time ago, and I don't see the need for Republicans to continue it, and I don't see the need for misinformed Irish-Americans to fund it. I still don't get what you're getting at, but I hope that I've clarified my position further, which , tl;dr I live in America, so I don't get a say.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:40:17 AM
Short answer, I think, is that the intellectual laziness going on around here is getting a little fucked up.
White + Male + American + Middle Class = privilege. I don't think anyone outside of the teabaggers would argue this.
HOWEVER
White + Male + American + Middle Class = ALWAYS responsible for EVERYONE'S BAD ACTS is just plain Goddamn LAZY. It's a substitute for THINKING. Why think, when you know who's to blame, right?
So some cheeseball in Boston or NYC or Chicago or St Johns that thinks singing Erin-Go-Brawl (or whatever the fuck it is) and donating some cash when he has 6 glasses of knockoff Guiness in him will somehow connect him to his roots is the BAD GUY, and the IRA bagman who actively pursues that money to buy more Makita drills for the kneecaps of the <name of weird, incomprehensible faction here> is being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, because THAT, my little Interbutt Misery-Monkeys, gives us all that soft glow of self-righteous indignation WITHOUT ALL THE WORK OF ACTUALLY ANALYZING THE PROBLEM
Oh, no, clearly the North American is being taken advantage of, and I am sorry if I implied otherwise, since I do not believe that to be the case. The IRA guy is the douche here. The rat, as my grandmother would have said.
I am arguing that the Irish American is working from a place of ignorance. It's not his fault. It's bad signal.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:45:49 AM
I'm just speaking from my experiences of Irishness in Boston. You still see graffiti here saying "Up the RA" which is the same as saying "go Jihad" in my book.
That's learned behavior that is easier, for the graffiti artist, than thinking. I just started a thread about that sort of thing. It is proof that there are assholes everywhere.
QuoteAs I understand it, the Irish Irish, since we can't call them Homeland Irish. Hibernian Irish? Irish Hibernians? have a certain animosity towards how Irish-American American-Irish feel they have a pulse on what is actually going on, and what is right for the Republic (of Ireland) and the Kingdom (of Ireland, aka Northern Ireland).
What has me chortling in mean-spirited glee at the moment is that I have heard no end of shit from at least 5 people in Ireland who feel that they know what is best for America, particularly on firearms issues. So, you know, every asshole gets an opinion. Even we ignorant colonials. If they don't like that, they can go shit in their flat caps...Or stop handing US advice, know what I mean?
QuoteThere is also animosity within the Republic, towards Republicans, as there is in the Kingdom. It's a very complex situation. I make a poor citizen of the Republic in that, I don't quite understand the whole thing.
Have you possibly considered that there isn't anything to understand, that the whole fucking mess is every bit as senseless as the Hatfield/McCoy feud? That not only do we Americans NOT know what's best for Ireland, but also that
neither do the fucking Irish?I mean, it's patently obvious that America has no clue what IT'S doing, so there's NO FUCKING WAY anyone in Ireland understands it, so why are they telling US what to do? Just as it may seem "obvious" to Irish folks that Americans probably shouldn't have a gun up every orifice, so it seems "obvious" to me that the Irish are too Goddamn stubborn to let the past rot in hell where it belongs. I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, and I'm reasonably certain that the Irish don't, either.
But somehow, I think, that the two situations will turn out to be different, somehow. In a way that I am not equipped to understand.
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:53:57 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 03:45:49 AM
I'm just speaking from my experiences of Irishness in Boston. You still see graffiti here saying "Up the RA" which is the same as saying "go Jihad" in my book.
That's learned behavior that is easier, for the graffiti artist, than thinking. I just started a thread about that sort of thing. It is proof that there are assholes everywhere.
QuoteAs I understand it, the Irish Irish, since we can't call them Homeland Irish. Hibernian Irish? Irish Hibernians? have a certain animosity towards how Irish-American American-Irish feel they have a pulse on what is actually going on, and what is right for the Republic (of Ireland) and the Kingdom (of Ireland, aka Northern Ireland).
What has me chortling in mean-spirited glee at the moment is that I have heard no end of shit from at least 5 people in Ireland who feel that they know what is best for America, particularly on firearms issues. So, you know, every asshole gets an opinion. Even we ignorant colonials. If they don't like that, they can go shit in their flat caps...Or stop handing US advice, know what I mean?
QuoteThere is also animosity within the Republic, towards Republicans, as there is in the Kingdom. It's a very complex situation. I make a poor citizen of the Republic in that, I don't quite understand the whole thing.
Have you possibly considered that there isn't anything to understand, that the whole fucking mess is every bit as senseless as the Hatfield/McCoy feud? That not only do we Americans NOT know what's best for Ireland, but also that neither do the fucking Irish?
I mean, it's patently obvious that America has no clue what IT'S doing, so there's NO FUCKING WAY anyone in Ireland understands it, so why are they telling US what to do? Just as it may seem "obvious" to Irish folks that Americans probably shouldn't have a gun up every orifice, so it seems "obvious" to me that the Irish are too Goddamn stubborn to let the past rot in hell where it belongs. I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, and I'm reasonably certain that the Irish don't, either.
But somehow, I think, that the two situations will turn out to be different, somehow. In a way that I am not equipped to understand.
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago, and me pointing out that we still have predators, and he conceded the point. Now, I don't give a crap about guns, but I can see how they would be necessary in certain parts. Also I like the phrase Irish Hibernians. It makes me chuckle.
And I agree that the Irish Hibernians don't know what to do about the North. It's a mess. Irish Ulsterians and British Ulsterians don't know what to do either. That's why I say, let the Northerners decide when they come to an agreement. All I know is that I come from Republicans who feel reluctant about Republicanism. So if the rest of Ulster wants to join the Republic, hey, welcome. If they want to remain part of the United Kingdom, hey, slainte. If they want to form an entirely independent government, hey... good luck. It's their choice.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
It's really weird. I can't get over Georgia - at least this part of it - how the people react to things. Everything remotely controversial is just swept under the rug and Not Discussed. It Isn't Done, you see. There Are Rules. It's . . . eerie, I guess. I have the feeling that if I walked downtown I'd see line after line of people with their heads stuck in the dirt of the scenic petunia sidewalk plantings, like ostriches in the sand. Heads down, hands covering their assholes.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
That's... kinda weird.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
I'm curious as to how long before they rationalize it into something else that's palatable for them?
Because that's exactly what they're going to do. Or wait for Rush to do FOR them.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:06:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
It's really weird. I can't get over Georgia - at least this part of it - how the people react to things. Everything remotely controversial is just swept under the rug and Not Discussed. It Isn't Done, you see. There Are Rules. It's . . . eerie, I guess. I have the feeling that if I walked downtown I'd see line after line of people with their heads stuck in the dirt of the scenic petunia sidewalk plantings, like ostriches in the sand. Heads down, hands covering their assholes.
I bet if the government caught some clown from Yemen with a duffel bag full of bombs, they'd have something to say.
Quote from: stelz on April 17, 2013, 04:06:34 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
I'm curious as to how long before they rationalize it into something else that's palatable for them?
Because that's exactly what they're going to do. Or wait for Rush to do FOR them.
Don't hold your breath. They're still stuck on that "TAKIN' OUR COUNTRY BACK" gibberish. They haven't had to learn for so long that they seem to have forgotten how.
But never you fear. The liberals will do the same fucking thing, sometime next Thursday.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
That's... kinda weird.
Yeah. The Sandy Hook thing got mention. Every person I talked to was all "Those poor kids. All those poor kids. Those poor families." As you would expect.
But the Boston thing? Nary a peep. I didn't hear anything on the radio, either, come to think of it. Maybe I just missed it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
With the caveat that I largely agree with him, there's no reason for me, as a Northeastern city dweller, to have a gun, I've never seen the need to, nor will ever see the need to, actually own one. I just recognize that in certain parts of North America, it's a good idea to own one.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:07:50 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:06:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
It's really weird. I can't get over Georgia - at least this part of it - how the people react to things. Everything remotely controversial is just swept under the rug and Not Discussed. It Isn't Done, you see. There Are Rules. It's . . . eerie, I guess. I have the feeling that if I walked downtown I'd see line after line of people with their heads stuck in the dirt of the scenic petunia sidewalk plantings, like ostriches in the sand. Heads down, hands covering their assholes.
I bet if the government caught some clown from Yemen with a duffel bag full of bombs, they'd have something to say.
Oh yeah. THAT would get their mouths flapping. But if it turns out to be some disgruntled American or even worse, a Southerner, you can damn bet my town will be all zombie and no brains.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:12:42 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:06:23 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
That's... kinda weird.
Yeah. The Sandy Hook thing got mention. Every person I talked to was all "Those poor kids. All those poor kids. Those poor families." As you would expect.
But the Boston thing? Nary a peep. I didn't hear anything on the radio, either, come to think of it. Maybe I just missed it.
You can't tie it in with gun rights. And like Roger said, it's probably an American that did it. That makes for an uncomfortable thing.
No true Scotsman.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:12:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
With the caveat that I largely agree with him, there's no reason for me, as a Northeastern city dweller, to have a gun, I've never seen the need to, nor will ever see the need to, actually own one. I just recognize that in certain parts of North America, it's a good idea to own one.
Not really my point.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:15:33 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:12:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
With the caveat that I largely agree with him, there's no reason for me, as a Northeastern city dweller, to have a gun, I've never seen the need to, nor will ever see the need to, actually own one. I just recognize that in certain parts of North America, it's a good idea to own one.
Not really my point.
I know. I'm just noting my indifference to the whole thing. I can see both sides. It was a rare time where I advocated for gun ownership.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:14:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:07:50 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:06:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
It's really weird. I can't get over Georgia - at least this part of it - how the people react to things. Everything remotely controversial is just swept under the rug and Not Discussed. It Isn't Done, you see. There Are Rules. It's . . . eerie, I guess. I have the feeling that if I walked downtown I'd see line after line of people with their heads stuck in the dirt of the scenic petunia sidewalk plantings, like ostriches in the sand. Heads down, hands covering their assholes.
I bet if the government caught some clown from Yemen with a duffel bag full of bombs, they'd have something to say.
Oh yeah. THAT would get their mouths flapping. But if it turns out to be some disgruntled American or even worse, a Southerner, you can damn bet my town will be all zombie and no brains.
No, I think it was a local. Why? Because the Boston Marathon is a regional thing. Outside of Boston and the marathon/self-flaggelation crowd, it's unknown. So it was someone from that region. It occurred on tax day, so it was more than likely a right wing loon. I can accept the possibility that it was a local self-radicalized Muslim or something like that, but that possibility seems pretty slim. The choices of date & target don't add up. The symbolism is all wrong.
Given the incompetence in the bomb making, I assume it was an amateur, another Eric Rudolph, maybe.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:19:55 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:14:16 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:07:50 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:06:17 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:01:03 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 03:56:32 AM
Everyone in my town is pretending nothing happened in Boston. One person mentioned it and was rushed away by her husband. I mentioned it in passing and was given the freeze. It's weird and it's making my head spin in uncomfortable ways.
Having spent time in Georgia, I can hazard a guess. I was just ranting about intellectual laziness, and this is just another form of it. To the people I knew in Georgia, TERRORISM = ISLAM. I think, though, that they can SMELL that this isn't what they want it to be, that maybe it was ONE OF THEM, meaning some white assbag with a head full of Rush Limbaugh. So they have to pretend that it ISN'T HAPPENING. IT ISN'T HAPPENING. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING.
Ho ho ho! You betcha it's happening. You bet your Gramma's ass it's happening. All the stupid hate and vitriol that's been spewed since 1980 has COME HOME TO ROOST. They can sense this. They have The Fear.
It's really weird. I can't get over Georgia - at least this part of it - how the people react to things. Everything remotely controversial is just swept under the rug and Not Discussed. It Isn't Done, you see. There Are Rules. It's . . . eerie, I guess. I have the feeling that if I walked downtown I'd see line after line of people with their heads stuck in the dirt of the scenic petunia sidewalk plantings, like ostriches in the sand. Heads down, hands covering their assholes.
I bet if the government caught some clown from Yemen with a duffel bag full of bombs, they'd have something to say.
Oh yeah. THAT would get their mouths flapping. But if it turns out to be some disgruntled American or even worse, a Southerner, you can damn bet my town will be all zombie and no brains.
No, I think it was a local. Why? Because the Boston Marathon is a regional thing. Outside of Boston and the marathon/self-flaggelation crowd, it's unknown. So it was someone from that region. It occurred on tax day, so it was more than likely a right wing loon. I can accept the possibility that it was a local self-radicalized Muslim or something like that, but that possibility seems pretty slim. The choices of date & target don't add up. The symbolism is all wrong.
Given the incompetence in the bomb making, I assume it was an amateur, another Eric Rudolph, maybe.
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:18:33 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:15:33 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:12:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
With the caveat that I largely agree with him, there's no reason for me, as a Northeastern city dweller, to have a gun, I've never seen the need to, nor will ever see the need to, actually own one. I just recognize that in certain parts of North America, it's a good idea to own one.
Not really my point.
I know. I'm just noting my indifference to the whole thing. I can see both sides. It was a rare time where I advocated for gun ownership.
Why are we deliberately steering away from the original concept, here? You know, that an American has as much (or as little) right to comment on what's best for Ireland as Irish folks have to comment on what's best for America?
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:21:26 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:18:33 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:15:33 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:12:50 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:10:15 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:05:52 AM
Oh, the Irish Hibernians should have no say in what goes on here. I seem to recall Faust commenting on guns about a year ago,
Actually, he was on about it right after Sandy Hook.
But he wasn't who I had in mind, though on reflection, he'll do nicely.
With the caveat that I largely agree with him, there's no reason for me, as a Northeastern city dweller, to have a gun, I've never seen the need to, nor will ever see the need to, actually own one. I just recognize that in certain parts of North America, it's a good idea to own one.
Not really my point.
I know. I'm just noting my indifference to the whole thing. I can see both sides. It was a rare time where I advocated for gun ownership.
Why are we deliberately steering away from the original concept, here? You know, that an American has as much (or as little) right to comment on what's best for Ireland as Irish folks have to comment on what's best for America?
I thought I was commenting in my role as an American? I'm speaking as a Bostonian. I'm socialized to have an abhorrence to firearms, but recognize that it is a regional necessity.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:23:51 AM
I thought I was commenting in my role as an American? I'm speaking as a Bostonian. I'm socialized to have an abhorrence to firearms, but recognize that it is a regional necessity.
It was just an example. It was an illustration that everyone thinks they know what's best for everyone else.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
No, I think you're probably right. I just want to be damn sure who to be mad at.
I think lone nut is also a distinct possibility, i doesn't have to have been politically motrivated, or if it is those motivations don't have to make any sense to anyone but the bomber.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
No, I think you're probably right. I just want to be damn sure who to be mad at.
I'm not mad at anyone.
This was a slow day in Kabul. Evil shit happens. When you find the guy that did it, you deal with them in a court of law, in front of everyone.
There's no point in getting mad about rabid dogs. They can't help being vicious and insane. You still have to shoot them, though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:24:43 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:23:51 AM
I thought I was commenting in my role as an American? I'm speaking as a Bostonian. I'm socialized to have an abhorrence to firearms, but recognize that it is a regional necessity.
It was just an example. It was an illustration that everyone thinks they know what's best for everyone else.
Oh, I get that. What's good for Massachusetts is good for Massachusetts. I'm not going to weigh in on other states. I was just agreeing with Faust insofar as that I live in a place where guns would do more harm than good. Only criminals and concerned homeowners have guns here in Boston. And the latter will probably never fire a round outside of the practice range.
Quote from: Pergamos on April 17, 2013, 04:26:35 AM
I think lone nut is also a distinct possibility, i doesn't have to have been politically motrivated, or if it is those motivations don't have to make any sense to anyone but the bomber.
This is absolutely correct.
The date of the attack, though, makes me think the lunacy has a right wing flavor. If it was Wall Street on May Day, I'd assume it was anarchists or lefties.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:27:49 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
No, I think you're probably right. I just want to be damn sure who to be mad at.
I'm not mad at anyone.
This was a slow day in Kabul. Evil shit happens. When you find the guy that did it, you deal with them in a court of law, in front of everyone.
There's no point in getting mad about rabid dogs. They can't help being vicious and insane. You still have to shoot them, though.
I'm mad and I don't feel ashamed in admitting because it was in my backyard.
I will say that whoever it is, I don't want them executed. I just want them to be caught.
I recognize that evil shit happens, but this time it was us. I remain rational in my desire for the proper application of justice, but it's close to home, and there's one person I still haven't heard from yet. I'm assuming she's ok, because I can do nothing else until she responds or I see her name in the news.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:31:34 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:27:49 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
No, I think you're probably right. I just want to be damn sure who to be mad at.
I'm not mad at anyone.
This was a slow day in Kabul. Evil shit happens. When you find the guy that did it, you deal with them in a court of law, in front of everyone.
There's no point in getting mad about rabid dogs. They can't help being vicious and insane. You still have to shoot them, though.
I'm mad and I don't feel ashamed in admitting because it was in my backyard.
I will say that whoever it is, I don't want them executed. I just want them to be caught.
I recognize that evil shit happens, but this time it was us. I remain rational in my desire for the proper application of justice, but it's close to home, and there's one person I still haven't heard from yet. I'm assuming she's ok, because I can do nothing else until she responds or I see her name in the news.
This isn't unreasonable. I've just become a little desensitized to violence over the years. In THIS case, the problem is in MY head.
You know, in my part of PA, growing up, everyone had at least six or so guns. But shooting wasn't a big thing. If we were going to kill someone, we just bludgeoned them to death or ran them over with a tractor. Hunting accidents happened, but they were almost always actual accidents.
Living in IA, gun violence was more common, but I was in a city (sort of), not a redneck backwater in the toe-cleavage of the Appalachians.
. . . I wonder at what point on the population density chart bombs become the go-to for expressing one's ire.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:32:52 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:31:34 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:27:49 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:25:09 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
No, I think you're probably right. I just want to be damn sure who to be mad at.
I'm not mad at anyone.
This was a slow day in Kabul. Evil shit happens. When you find the guy that did it, you deal with them in a court of law, in front of everyone.
There's no point in getting mad about rabid dogs. They can't help being vicious and insane. You still have to shoot them, though.
I'm mad and I don't feel ashamed in admitting because it was in my backyard.
I will say that whoever it is, I don't want them executed. I just want them to be caught.
I recognize that evil shit happens, but this time it was us. I remain rational in my desire for the proper application of justice, but it's close to home, and there's one person I still haven't heard from yet. I'm assuming she's ok, because I can do nothing else until she responds or I see her name in the news.
This isn't unreasonable. I've just become a little desensitized to violence over the years. In THIS case, the problem is in MY head.
I hope I never become desensitized.
And the shooting the rabid dog was a metaphor. I think the person should get whatever the state prescribes for any other murderer.
Because that's what this was, in the end. Gratuitous murder. This isn't some evil mastermind supervillain. It's just a murderer.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:34:10 AM
You know, in my part of PA, growing up, everyone had at least six or so guns. But shooting wasn't a big thing. If we were going to kill someone, we just bludgeoned them to death or ran them over with a tractor. Hunting accidents happened, but they were almost always actual accidents.
Living in IA, gun violence was more common, but I was in a city (sort of), not a redneck backwater in the toe-cleavage of the Appalachians.
. . . I wonder at what point on the population density chart bombs become the go-to for expressing one's ire.
I think it's when you reach Crazytown, population: 1-3 maniacs.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:35:16 AM
And the shooting the rabid dog was a metaphor. I think the person should get whatever the state prescribes for any other murderer.
Because that's what this was, in the end. Gratuitous murder. This isn't some evil mastermind supervillain. It's just a murderer.
I know what you meant. I know that you've changed your mind about capital punishment.
The person in question is one of my exes. She and I are still friends, and she very much approved of me being with Villager.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:35:05 AM
I hope I never become desensitized.
Well, then, Doktor's prescription: Avoid violence unless there really is no other option. There is almost ALWAYS another option. Certainly don't go looking for it. Stay home, live life, get hitched and maybe have some kids (or not), die in bed at the ripe old age of 90 or so. Eulogy should read: "Was a really nice guy, smiled a lot".
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:36:25 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 17, 2013, 04:34:10 AM
You know, in my part of PA, growing up, everyone had at least six or so guns. But shooting wasn't a big thing. If we were going to kill someone, we just bludgeoned them to death or ran them over with a tractor. Hunting accidents happened, but they were almost always actual accidents.
Living in IA, gun violence was more common, but I was in a city (sort of), not a redneck backwater in the toe-cleavage of the Appalachians.
. . . I wonder at what point on the population density chart bombs become the go-to for expressing one's ire.
I think it's when you reach Crazytown, population: 1-3 maniacs.
Damn.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:39:06 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:35:16 AM
And the shooting the rabid dog was a metaphor. I think the person should get whatever the state prescribes for any other murderer.
Because that's what this was, in the end. Gratuitous murder. This isn't some evil mastermind supervillain. It's just a murderer.
I know what you meant. I know that you've changed your mind about capital punishment.
The person in question is one of my exes. She and I are still friends, and she very much approved of me being with Villager.
I have always been against capital punishment, at least for my adult life. The taking of human life is wrong under any circumstances whatsoever, with the SOLE exception of
immediate self defense/defense of those around you.
And I do hope your friend is okay.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:39:21 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:35:05 AM
I hope I never become desensitized.
Well, then, Doktor's prescription: Avoid violence unless there really is no other option. There is almost ALWAYS another option. Certainly don't go looking for it. Stay home, live life, get hitched and maybe have some kids (or not), die in bed at the ripe old age of 90 or so. Eulogy should read: "Was a really nice guy, smiled a lot".
If my paternal genes kick in, that will be a reality. Other than, "smiled a lot" being changed to "delightful jackass"
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:41:17 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:39:06 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:35:16 AM
And the shooting the rabid dog was a metaphor. I think the person should get whatever the state prescribes for any other murderer.
Because that's what this was, in the end. Gratuitous murder. This isn't some evil mastermind supervillain. It's just a murderer.
I know what you meant. I know that you've changed your mind about capital punishment.
The person in question is one of my exes. She and I are still friends, and she very much approved of me being with Villager.
I have always been against capital punishment, at least for my adult life. The taking of human life is wrong under any circumstances whatsoever, with the SOLE exception of immediate self defense/defense of those around you.
And I do hope your friend is okay.
I do too. I thought I had everyone accounted for until about noon today. Then it was oh shit... I lost her number because she's recently back from South Korea, and I had the phone-sink incident. The only way I can contact her is through Facebook, and the last that she mentioned anything was dying her hair about 5 days ago.
And I apologize. I seem to recall reading at one point that you changed your mind on capital punishment. I may be in error.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:47:18 AM
And I apologize. I seem to recall reading at one point that you changed your mind on capital punishment. I may be in error.
Or I'm more fucked in the head than I thought. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 05:05:14 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:47:18 AM
And I apologize. I seem to recall reading at one point that you changed your mind on capital punishment. I may be in error.
Or I'm more fucked in the head than I thought. :lulz:
I am human. My memory is faulty, just as any other unit.
I PM'd my ex with my phone number, with a plea that she contact me as soon as possible.
I don't like thinking it, but the 3rd fatality was an adult female. And even if it wasn't her, she could be one of the wounded.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 05:11:46 AM
I don't like thinking it, but the 3rd fatality was an adult female. And even if it wasn't her, she could be one of the wounded.
The odds are pretty long here, Twid.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 05:13:56 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 05:11:46 AM
I don't like thinking it, but the 3rd fatality was an adult female. And even if it wasn't her, she could be one of the wounded.
The odds are pretty long here, Twid.
Worrying unnecessarily is a Twiddleton trait. I can't help it. Rationally I know she's probably ok. I'll be more comfortable when I receive confirmation on that.
I guess in the stream of oks, and the relief that I felt with them, I feel kinda bad that I didn't realize I didn't see hers, especially where she's been such an important person in my life. So much so that she'll be one of my groomswomen when I eventually marry (oh the joys of the 21st century-we already mutually agreed on this. I'll be one of her bridesmen.)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 02:18:47 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Indeed, but I am leaving it to the primates in question. Even if I was raised in my dad's hometown, I would have the same perspective. I don't live there, let them decide what they want to do.
Obviously.
I don't see what this has to do with the subject, though. I am reasonably sure that drunken people of Irish descent are not hunting down IRA bagmen and beating them until they accept the money. No, I'm reasonably sure said bagman buys a round or two, gets them all singing sentimental Irish shit, and then puts the arm on them.
Ask me how I know this.
In any case, this whole "MURRIKANS TELLING TEH POOR IRISH WAT TO DO" line is a crock of bullshit. They let the bagman squeeze 'em a bit, they've done their part for the auld sod or whatever the fuck you call it, and then they can feel nice & Irish until next month.
I don't think anyone took you up on this. I'm curious.
WBC protest taking place at Cathedral of the Holy Cross at 10:15 am Thursday.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 07:06:10 AM
WBC protest taking place at Cathedral of the Holy Cross at 10:15 am Thursday.
As in tomorrow? I'm there. Where is that church? Boston only has about 300 near Copley. It's not one of the ones IN the square, right? I know Old South Church.
Okay, Washington St. 12 minute walk from Back Bay. If you meet me at Back Bay, that will probably help. I tend to get lost in that part of the aether between there and downtown.
My plan for any counter protest of this kind of thing would be to have the wall of peeps turn their back on WBC one by one. In silence.
That is exactly what's happening. So far over 4000 people on Facebook signed up for the human wall.
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 02:02:00 PM
That is exactly what's happening. So far over 4000 people on Facebook signed up for the human wall.
Sweet.
And it will be attended by the President.
https://www.facebook.com/events/363949093715919/?fref=ts
Pamela Geller, ideological inspiration to Anders Behring Breivik, has declared the attack in Boston was an act of "jihad".
How does she know? Super secret Christian Zionist powers, it would seem. Also, arguing that people should perhaps, you know, wait for evidence to show this to be the case are "carrying water for the murderers".
As at least one person has noted, this could be seen as a sign of Geller's extreme Islamophobia, or it could be, as some of us have long suspected, that she is in fact violently opposed to the idea of rational thought at all.
I see the FBI believe now that these were pressure-cooker based explosives.
That's good. If they can find a serial number, they can trace the shipping history and find the point of purchase for such an item. With any luck, that place will have CCTV. And if we're really lucky, they were stupid enough to buy said item with a credit or debit card.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 02:22:08 PM
I see the FBI believe now that these were pressure-cooker based explosives.
That's good. If they can find a serial number, they can trace the shipping history and find the point of purchase for such an item. With any luck, that place will have CCTV. And if we're really lucky, they were stupid enough to buy said item with a credit or debit card.
this is one of the few times i pray for stupid.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 02:22:08 PM
I see the FBI believe now that these were pressure-cooker based explosives.
That's good. If they can find a serial number, they can trace the shipping history and find the point of purchase for such an item. With any luck, that place will have CCTV. And if we're really lucky, they were stupid enough to buy said item with a credit or debit card.
Well considering the number of unexploded devices I would say that the credit/debit card route will probably be the most likely to lead to a quick arrest.
That's assuming they weren't home made pressure cookers, of course.
The Yemen-based Al-Qaeda English language media outlet, Inspire Magazine, had detailed instructions on how to make a pressure cooker in their first issue.
I would put money on them not being home-made. I would also put money on them being purchased within 20 miles.
Just a hunch, but this kind of shit seems to always have a good dose of "Stupid" built into the event.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 02:22:08 PM
I see the FBI believe now that these were pressure-cooker based explosives.
That's good. If they can find a serial number, they can trace the shipping history and find the point of purchase for such an item. With any luck, that place will have CCTV. And if we're really lucky, they were stupid enough to buy said item with a credit or debit card.
That entire block is lined with restaurants, fancy shops and pretty big shopping malls. There's probably cameras. I'm sure they're on it, but they can't make any sort of announcement until they've found something. I did read that there was a report of a dark-skinned ( :roll:) man wearing a hoodie placing things into garbage cans, but nothing official.
Not the hoodie thing again... :x
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 01:56:29 PM
Okay, Washington St. 12 minute walk from Back Bay. If you meet me at Back Bay, that will probably help. I tend to get lost in that part of the aether between there and downtown.
Get off on the Dartmouth St side of Back Bay. Turn left. Walk down Dartmouth until you get to Washington. It will be across the street from you.
http://goo.gl/maps/AigrV
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 02:18:55 PM
Pamela Geller, ideological inspiration to Anders Behring Breivik, has declared the attack in Boston was an act of "jihad".
How does she know? Super secret Christian Zionist powers, it would seem. Also, arguing that people should perhaps, you know, wait for evidence to show this to be the case are "carrying water for the murderers".
As at least one person has noted, this could be seen as a sign of Geller's extreme Islamophobia, or it could be, as some of us have long suspected, that she is in fact violently opposed to the idea of rational thought at all.
I, on the other hand, am using the Nigel method. I have eaten a Scrabble set, and I will have Keelin kick the pieces out of my guts. We will record the order in which they are ejected, and report the results.
Quote from: Cainad on April 17, 2013, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 02:18:47 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Indeed, but I am leaving it to the primates in question. Even if I was raised in my dad's hometown, I would have the same perspective. I don't live there, let them decide what they want to do.
Obviously.
I don't see what this has to do with the subject, though. I am reasonably sure that drunken people of Irish descent are not hunting down IRA bagmen and beating them until they accept the money. No, I'm reasonably sure said bagman buys a round or two, gets them all singing sentimental Irish shit, and then puts the arm on them.
Ask me how I know this.
In any case, this whole "MURRIKANS TELLING TEH POOR IRISH WAT TO DO" line is a crock of bullshit. They let the bagman squeeze 'em a bit, they've done their part for the auld sod or whatever the fuck you call it, and then they can feel nice & Irish until next month.
I don't think anyone took you up on this. I'm curious.
Because it doesn't just happen in Boston & NY. It is also common in Chicago and St Johns, and I've seen it work. In fact, I've been pitched a time or two, on account of red hair.
Yeah. I wasnt going to say anything until I saw your reply, but it's fairly common knowledge over here and in Ireland at least that this is how it works.
Or worked, anyway. Apparently after nineeleven, people started to feel a bit different about terrorism. That and the Provisional IRA was holding to its ceasefire agreement. Nowadays, the Real and Continuity IRA have to do with weapons they stole from PIRA stockpiles, and money from smuggling, kidnapping and protection rackets.
Occasionally some foreign whackjob, like our good friend Colonel Gaddafi, slipped them a few bob too.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 01:56:29 PM
Okay, Washington St. 12 minute walk from Back Bay. If you meet me at Back Bay, that will probably help. I tend to get lost in that part of the aether between there and downtown.
Get off on the Dartmouth St side of Back Bay. Turn left. Walk down Dartmouth until you get to Washington. It will be across the street from you.
http://goo.gl/maps/AigrV
I know where it is now. For some reason it looked more confusing than necessary. I'm bringing like 4 spags with me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:08:03 PM
Quote from: Cainad on April 17, 2013, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 02:18:47 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Indeed, but I am leaving it to the primates in question. Even if I was raised in my dad's hometown, I would have the same perspective. I don't live there, let them decide what they want to do.
Obviously.
I don't see what this has to do with the subject, though. I am reasonably sure that drunken people of Irish descent are not hunting down IRA bagmen and beating them until they accept the money. No, I'm reasonably sure said bagman buys a round or two, gets them all singing sentimental Irish shit, and then puts the arm on them.
Ask me how I know this.
In any case, this whole "MURRIKANS TELLING TEH POOR IRISH WAT TO DO" line is a crock of bullshit. They let the bagman squeeze 'em a bit, they've done their part for the auld sod or whatever the fuck you call it, and then they can feel nice & Irish until next month.
I don't think anyone took you up on this. I'm curious.
Because it doesn't just happen in Boston & NY. It is also common in Chicago and St Johns, and I've seen it work. In fact, I've been pitched a time or two, on account of red hair.
I'm assumed some kind of mixed Irish in Mass (I do have a smidgeon but I don't think it shows), some kind of mixed Mexican in Texas. People just assume you're what "everybody else" is.
Oh, and that guy Jeff: BOTH legs. Photo 32, but it might be a good idea to just take my word for it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/15/boston-marathon-bombing-photos_n_3087332.html#slide=2340784
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 04:29:39 PM
Yeah. I wasnt going to say anything until I saw your reply, but it's fairly common knowledge over here and in Ireland at least that this is how it works.
Or worked, anyway. Apparently after nineeleven, people started to feel a bit different about terrorism. That and the Provisional IRA was holding to its ceasefire agreement. Nowadays, the Real and Continuity IRA have to do with weapons they stole from PIRA stockpiles, and money from smuggling, kidnapping and protection rackets.
Occasionally some foreign whackjob, like our good friend Colonel Gaddafi, slipped them a few bob too.
So are the post-911 IRA factions actually still terrorist organisations? i was under the impression that they were just Cosa O'Nostra these days
Well, the Cosa Nostra may not be the best example, given they car bombed judges and generals in Italy :lol: I actually used them once as an example of how terrorism is a selectively applied term, as the Cosa Nostra were a non-revolutionary force in Italian politics with strong links to the status quo.
Back to the little IRAlings. Although they don't do much on the mainland nowadays, they're still somewhat active in Northern Ireland. Whacking cops and planting bombs and things. There's definitely a strong organized crime element to a lot of what they do, but they do also carry out what most people would consider to be terrorist activity.
So, been visiting the seedier sides of the internet, as is my wont, I have discovered two things:
1) The jihadists say they hope one of theirs was responsible, but no-one is actually coming forward and claiming it, and
2) the white nationalist crowd say it definitely wasn't them and if someone says it was, it's because Obama is a Muslim and set them up
The latter lot are also getting in something of a twist about the arrested Saudi, between the Islamaphobic factions, the traditional anti-Semitic factions and the anti all non-Christian white factions.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 03:16:05 AM
Also, the very notion of being utterly severed from your heritage by means of immigration - as mentioned earlier, to do with "Irish-Americans" being some heinously offensive term - is utter rot and nonsense.
Retracting this.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,34458.0.html
"Breaking News" says they have images of one suspect. No images have been released to the public.
"The Vengance Machine That Is The Internet" has a slew of dodgy pictures and uncorroborated connetcions that will most likely get some dude killed in the next few days.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 06:38:34 PM
"Breaking News" says they have images of one suspect. No images have been released to the public.
"The Vengance Machine That Is The Internet" has a slew of dodgy pictures and uncorroborated connetcions that will most likely get some dude killed in the next few days.
Check out "RLSH".
Blockpage.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 06:42:01 PM
Blockpage.
Check it at home. The horrormirth and silliness-with-potential-for-mayhem is simply too great to waste with an exception.
OK, it is more than possible that, due to recent circumstances, the tests involved are throwing up false positives. And it is by no means clear that the two events are related.
But fuck me if this isn't suspicious.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us/tainted-letter-intercepted/index.html
QuoteAn envelope that tested positive for the deadly poison ricin was intercepted Tuesday afternoon at the U.S. Capitol's off-site mail facility in Washington, congressional and law enforcement sources tell CNN.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was told the letter was addressed to the office of Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Mississippi. A laboratory in Maryland confirmed the presence of ricin after an initial field tests indicated the poison was present, Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Terrance Gainer said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/secret-service-ricin-laced-letter-obama-found/story?id=18978412#.UW7fXsqcFXA
QuoteA letter addressed to President Obama that field-tested positive for the poison ricin was received at the remote White House mail screening facility Tuesday, according to law enforcement officials.
The facility routinely identifies letters or parcels that require secondary screening or scientific testing before delivery.
The separate Senate mail-handling facility also Tuesday received a suspicious letter potentially laced with ricin addressed to Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi, postmarked from Memphis.
Does this sound familiar? It should do - a similar tactic happened in the aftermath of 9/11, a series of anthrax based attacks that, in my opinion, were never fully explained to my satisfaction.
Yeah, I heard about that this morning, but I didn't want to comment until I could formulate a thought around it. But yes. 2001 Anthrax scare. Very interesting.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 06:45:53 PM
OK, it is more than possible that, due to recent circumstances, the tests involved are throwing up false positives. And it is by no means clear that the two events are related.
But fuck me if this isn't suspicious.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us/tainted-letter-intercepted/index.html
QuoteAn envelope that tested positive for the deadly poison ricin was intercepted Tuesday afternoon at the U.S. Capitol's off-site mail facility in Washington, congressional and law enforcement sources tell CNN.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was told the letter was addressed to the office of Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Mississippi. A laboratory in Maryland confirmed the presence of ricin after an initial field tests indicated the poison was present, Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Terrance Gainer said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/secret-service-ricin-laced-letter-obama-found/story?id=18978412#.UW7fXsqcFXA
QuoteA letter addressed to President Obama that field-tested positive for the poison ricin was received at the remote White House mail screening facility Tuesday, according to law enforcement officials.
The facility routinely identifies letters or parcels that require secondary screening or scientific testing before delivery.
The separate Senate mail-handling facility also Tuesday received a suspicious letter potentially laced with ricin addressed to Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi, postmarked from Memphis.
Does this sound familiar? It should do - a similar tactic happened in the aftermath of 9/11, a series of anthrax based attacks that, in my opinion, were never fully explained to my satisfaction.
Now I KNOW it's local.
The 911 attacks weren't domestic. The anthrax attacks were, from what I gather.
We seem to have reached - nearly - maximum bugshit.
All we're missing is randomly shooting innocent people that are deemed "suspicious".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 06:49:04 PM
All we're missing is randomly shooting innocent people that are deemed "suspicious".
We'll get to it. Have faith.
Oh, and when I came into work this morning, (1/4 mile from explosions) security was stopping everyone and checking their bags.
I was angered, not because Invasion of Privacy, but rather the pointlessness of it all. The chances of another attack two days after the bombing is tatamount to zero. This is a classic example of closing the barn door after the horse gets out. Or, to use something I heard recently: "We must do something in the wake of this tragedy. This is something; let's do it."
A phenomenal waste of time and resources, all in an effort to make us feel safe, rather than be safe.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 06:54:12 PM
Oh, and when I came into work this morning, (1/4 mile from explosions) security was stopping everyone and checking their bags.
I was angered, not because Invasion of Privacy, but rather the pointlessness of it all. The chances of another attack two days after the bombing is tatamount to zero. This is a classic example of closing the barn door after the horse gets out. Or, to use something I heard recently: "We must do something in the wake of this tragedy. This is something; let's do it."
A phenomenal waste of time and resources, all in an effort to make us feel safe, rather than be safe.
Form over function.
Plus they get to shove you around. You have to get
something for your taxes.
Well it seems a real suspect(Scapegoat?) has been found:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190353
QuoteInvestigators are preparing to arrest a suspect in relation to Monday's Boston marathon bombings, officials have told US media.
The breakthrough reportedly came from security video of a man dropping off a bag on the street near the race's finish line, before walking away.
The twin blasts killed an eight-year-old boy, a woman aged 29 and a postgraduate student from China.
Officials are due to hold a press conference at 17:00 ET (21:00 GMT).
I would assume this to mean an arrest has been made with at least some evidence. Given the speed it could just be a credit card trace after all.
More on the same, no real info but it gives the names of the people killed:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/17/suspect-identified-boston-marathon-bombings-report/
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 17, 2013, 07:11:40 PM
Well it seems a real suspect(Scapegoat?) has been found:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190353
QuoteInvestigators are preparing to arrest a suspect in relation to Monday's Boston marathon bombings, officials have told US media.
The breakthrough reportedly came from security video of a man dropping off a bag on the street near the race's finish line, before walking away.
The twin blasts killed an eight-year-old boy, a woman aged 29 and a postgraduate student from China.
Officials are due to hold a press conference at 17:00 ET (21:00 GMT).
I would assume this to mean an arrest has been made with at least some evidence. Given the speed it could just be a credit card trace after all.
But the bomb wasn't in the street.
BBC reporting is taxpayer funded.
We get what we pay for.
Or it's possible he was the bombmaker and leaving the bag for the person who placed the bombs.
Or it's possible that "street" meant "not inside a building. One of the bombs was exploded on the sidewalk.
Weren't there some that were found unexploded?
Quote from: Emo Howard on April 17, 2013, 07:32:06 PM
Weren't there some that were found unexploded?
Apparently not. Nobody can seem to get that straight.
No arrest has been made per Boston PD, but it sounds like Homeland Security has a lead.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 17, 2013, 06:54:12 PM
Oh, and when I came into work this morning, (1/4 mile from explosions) security was stopping everyone and checking their bags.
I was angered, not because Invasion of Privacy, but rather the pointlessness of it all. The chances of another attack two days after the bombing is tatamount to zero. This is a classic example of closing the barn door after the horse gets out. Or, to use something I heard recently: "We must do something in the wake of this tragedy. This is something; let's do it."
A phenomenal waste of time and resources, all in an effort to make us feel safe, rather than be safe.
I've got a Pratchett quote kicking round my head about not suspecting the guards of being lazy after a robbery. Think it was 5th elephant?
Shit ton of action at the courthouse. They called a Code Red and people evacuated out, but people are still standing pretty close. They've been bringing vans in. Possible bomb scare.
http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon?utm_source=hootsuite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb%2Bchannel%2B5%2Bboston
I should probably be doing homework.
A source cited by the BBC is now saying the bombs were not in trash cans but were placed in black bags on the ground.
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Idiots. They'll see it's FEMA when they cover it up.
My friend is ok. So im probably going from work and then going right back to work after. What time do you think youll be arriving at back bay?
Looks like a fight is happening between AP and the Boston PD - the former claims they have someone arrested, while the latter is strongly denying it.
More bomb info.
Quote from: BBCInvestigators have been sifting through thousands of pieces of evidence, ranging from video recorded on mobile phones to fragments of shrapnel removed from the victims' legs.
Officials said a circuit board and battery pack - parts of a triggering mechanism - had been recovered and the lid of a pressure cooker, apparently blown off during the explosion, was found on the roof of a nearby building.
The bombs are believed to have consisted of explosives placed in 1.6-gallon (6-litre) pressure cookers, one with shards of metal and ball bearings, the other with nails.
Nobody has claimed responsibility for the bombs, which a source said had been placed in black bags and left on the ground.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 10:48:09 PM
Looks like a fight is happening between AP and the Boston PD - the former claims they have someone arrested, while the latter is strongly denying it.
More bomb info.
Quote from: BBCInvestigators have been sifting through thousands of pieces of evidence, ranging from video recorded on mobile phones to fragments of shrapnel removed from the victims' legs.
Officials said a circuit board and battery pack - parts of a triggering mechanism - had been recovered and the lid of a pressure cooker, apparently blown off during the explosion, was found on the roof of a nearby building.
The bombs are believed to have consisted of explosives placed in 1.6-gallon (6-litre) pressure cookers, one with shards of metal and ball bearings, the other with nails.
Nobody has claimed responsibility for the bombs, which a source said had been placed in black bags and left on the ground.
This just gets weirder and weirder. What do you make of it?
AP say they have a source in the PD who disagrees. Is the source mistaken? Possibly. Doing it for attention? Again, possibly. AP are fairly well established - while they get up to the usual media chicanery, they're serious enough that they wouldn't do something like this without some justification.
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 11:19:34 PM
AP say they have a source in the PD who disagrees. Is the source mistaken? Possibly. Doing it for attention? Again, possibly. AP are fairly well established - while they get up to the usual media chicanery, they're serious enough that they wouldn't do something like this without some justification.
Frankly, I think the BPD is stumped, and flailing around.
Wouldn't surprise me.
I do have a negative opinion of them from their magazine, though, and I'm sure not every BPD member is racist jerk with a sense of humour formed by 1990s talk radio. Still, if they are, it could very well explain the lack of progress.
The FBI probably see it the same way, too. Let the Boston PD flail around, while they sift through the forensic evidence.
Quote from: stelz on April 17, 2013, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 17, 2013, 10:48:09 PM
Looks like a fight is happening between AP and the Boston PD - the former claims they have someone arrested, while the latter is strongly denying it.
More bomb info.
Quote from: BBCInvestigators have been sifting through thousands of pieces of evidence, ranging from video recorded on mobile phones to fragments of shrapnel removed from the victims' legs.
Officials said a circuit board and battery pack - parts of a triggering mechanism - had been recovered and the lid of a pressure cooker, apparently blown off during the explosion, was found on the roof of a nearby building.
The bombs are believed to have consisted of explosives placed in 1.6-gallon (6-litre) pressure cookers, one with shards of metal and ball bearings, the other with nails.
Nobody has claimed responsibility for the bombs, which a source said had been placed in black bags and left on the ground.
This just gets weirder and weirder. What do you make of it?
When I was watching Boston Channel 5 earlier today, they cleared the courthouse, calling it a bomb scare. Believable, considering the heightened paranoia, and this was after they had announced they had someone...and didn't. So the place was swarming. They evac'd the building, and then vans showed up and went to side entrances out of camera view. The bomb squad went in through the front door with the dogs and all the pomp and circumstance that goes with it. They were talking to one of their own reporters, and she was describing that she was talking to one of the prosecuting attorneys in the Whitey Bulger case who was in there, and he said he was told to get a courtroom ready, but it could have been for anything, really. Then, they let the judges back in, supposedly, but told everyone else it would take "hours."
I figured it was just another bomb threat, and turned off the feed so I could get some homework done, but it does seem weird. Since I don't care for conspiracy theories, I'm chalking it up to, "I don't know wtf is happening, so I'm KYFMS." The press will get information when the authorities are damn good and ready to give it to them.
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Those pics are rather convincing. That prediction by the top poster in there is also pretty specific.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 18, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Those pics are rather convincing. That prediction by the top poster in there is also pretty specific.
Some of them are. Some of them are fucked up, one points out a guy with a duffel and a guy with a backpack. Then the next pic shows the guy who had the duffel, and it says "backpack missing". You can see the shoulder strap of the duffel.
You have to wonder how many people had similar backpacks, too.
I can totally see them spinning a story like that, though. "Damn unbalanced kids are out of control". :x :x :x
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:43:02 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 18, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Those pics are rather convincing. That prediction by the top poster in there is also pretty specific.
Some of them are. Some of them are fucked up, one points out a guy with a duffel and a guy with a backpack. Then the next pic shows the guy who had the duffel, and it says "backpack missing". You can see the shoulder strap of the duffel.
You have to wonder how many people had similar backpacks, too.
Plus there could be any number of reasons for someone to look away. Perhaps they were watching a specific runner. There's another in there where one of the guys could well be checking a chick out.
OH GOD I STARTED READING THE COMMENTS :horrormirth:
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 04:44:55 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:43:02 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 18, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Those pics are rather convincing. That prediction by the top poster in there is also pretty specific.
Some of them are. Some of them are fucked up, one points out a guy with a duffel and a guy with a backpack. Then the next pic shows the guy who had the duffel, and it says "backpack missing". You can see the shoulder strap of the duffel.
You have to wonder how many people had similar backpacks, too.
Plus there could be any number of reasons for someone to look away. Perhaps they were watching a specific runner. There's another in there where one of the guys could well be checking a chick out.
Yeah, that's another one. A certain amount of people watching is normal in crowds.
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:44:46 AM
I can totally see them spinning a story like that, though. "Damn unbalanced kids are out of control". :x :x :x
NO MORE RELOADING POWDER AND MANDATORY RITALIN UNTIL AGE 18
FOR THE CHILDREN
To sum up:
SCHRODINGER'S SUSPECT.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 18, 2013, 05:02:54 AM
To sum up:
SCHRODINGER'S SUSPECT.
One of the downsides of the Internet. We expect all the answers NOW.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 05:14:47 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 18, 2013, 05:02:54 AM
To sum up:
SCHRODINGER'S SUSPECT.
One of the downsides of the Internet. We expect all the answers NOW.
It's too bad that law enforcement doesn't actually use things like crowd-sourcing to solve crimes like this, instead letting all that effort get sucked into conspiracy theories.
Quote from: V3X on April 18, 2013, 05:17:43 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 05:14:47 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 18, 2013, 05:02:54 AM
To sum up:
SCHRODINGER'S SUSPECT.
One of the downsides of the Internet. We expect all the answers NOW.
It's too bad that law enforcement doesn't actually use things like crowd-sourcing to solve crimes like this, instead letting all that effort get sucked into conspiracy theories.
I imagine that they are. If I recall the BPD and FBI asked for any possible information. They might give some credence, even if it comes from InfoWars. Conspiracy theorists are good at noticing and pattern recognizing. It's just that they usually make the pattern fit the assumption.
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Maybe. Being just outside of Waco on the day before the anniversary of the Waco siege and the Oklahoma City Bombing makes it seem a little sketchy to me.
Anhydrous ammonia forms an explosive compound when in contact with air. Turns out the factory in question lied about the risk their operation presented to the EPA.
Quote from: BBCThe Dallas Morning News reported that West Fertilizer had told the Environmental Protection Agency that it presented no risk of fire or explosion.
The newspaper said it had seen documents in which the plant said it stored large amounts of anhydrous ammonia, but the worst scenario envisaged was a release of ammonia gas that would harm no-one.
Chances are that means they skipped on safety requirements as well.
If I see any evidence to indicate sabotage rather than accident, I may change my mind. But based on the information we have, it looks like a terrible industrial accident.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Somebody messaged me on facebook last night and asked if I was ok. I was wondering what that was about.
Yeah, totally different.
besides, the Czech Stop is intact, so we can all still get our kolaches. (that's the primary purpose for West, afaict.)
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on April 18, 2013, 02:16:04 PM
besides, the Czech Stop is intact, so we can all still get our kolaches. (that's the primary purpose for West, afaict.)
But do you have Shiner to go with those? :lol:
So, some pictures of the site pre-bombing have been released on the internet.
If fucking 4chan and Reddit solve this before the FBI do... :argh!:
Question - Say Anon correctly ID's the guy.
Is that evidence even admissible? Would this not help grounds for a future appeal?
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
So, some pictures of the site pre-bombing have been released on the internet.
If fucking 4chan and Reddit solve this before the FBI do... :argh!:
or if they get two random security guys killed...
The two they are pointing at are wearing identical clothing and ear pieces. If it was a coordinated effort by two people would they really wear identical clothing?
I think the worst they'll do is get two random guys swatted. Anons don't have a real track record of physical violence, and as angry as a lot of people are right now, neither does most of Boston.
If they get the evidence together and hand it to the police I think it will still be admissible. They haven't (AFAIK) hacked into anything do get access to these pictures or done anything that the FBI isn't already asking folks to do.
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
My plant has been inspected once in 32 years. Because I called and asked them for it. Just saying.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
My plant has been inspected once in 32 years. Because I called and asked them for it. Just saying.
Most of the regulatory bodies that are supposed to protect public health and safety have been gutted, because we don't have enough money to protect us from corporate greed, because we're too busy using it to fight terrorism overseas.
but at least we're safe...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
My plant has been inspected once in 32 years. Because I called and asked them for it. Just saying.
A lot of people here have the idea that they'll be fired and blacklisted from ever working again for stuff like that. :x
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
My plant has been inspected once in 32 years. Because I called and asked them for it. Just saying.
A lot of people here have the idea that they'll be fired and blacklisted from ever working again for stuff like that. :x
I'm management. I told my boss we ought to do it, on account of it's non-punishable if you invite them in, and if you make any corrections on time, you're immune to any surprise inspections for 364 days, AND it will make the place SAFER, which is the point in the first place.
No ippie its not that were safe. Its that were free. You cant be free and safe at the same time. Ben franklin said so.
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:46:42 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 04:44:55 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:43:02 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 18, 2013, 04:27:43 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 17, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Info Wars (I know...I know...I KNOW.) posted the surveillance pics as broken down by Anonymous on 4Chan. They're too busy reeling about them being Navy SEALs obviously planted by the government (obviously), but the pics are pretty fucking good.
http://www.infowars.com/boston-bombing-culprits-found/
Those pics are rather convincing. That prediction by the top poster in there is also pretty specific.
Some of them are. Some of them are fucked up, one points out a guy with a duffel and a guy with a backpack. Then the next pic shows the guy who had the duffel, and it says "backpack missing". You can see the shoulder strap of the duffel.
You have to wonder how many people had similar backpacks, too.
Plus there could be any number of reasons for someone to look away. Perhaps they were watching a specific runner. There's another in there where one of the guys could well be checking a chick out.
Yeah, that's another one. A certain amount of people watching is normal in crowds.
Yeah that part is a bit odd... I was thinking more about the pics with the backpack guys close to the blast area and the possible pressure cooker shape taking form in the backpack.
I realize it's highly speculative..but it's interesting nonetheless.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 05:34:40 PM
No ippie its not that were safe. Its that were free. You cant be free and safe at the same time. Ben franklin said so.
You haven't been listening to the propaganda last few years, have you twid? Absolute freedom is a straightjacket now.
well, whatever the case Something was Done, and our children will certainly be grateful.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 05:29:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 18, 2013, 10:24:08 AM
Fertilizer is notoriously dangerous when not treated with the proper amount of safety and respect. There is a reason its often used in home made bombs.
But this looks like an industrial accident and nothing more.
Oh, Texas. :x
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/04/18/1886991/west-texas-fertilizer-plant-hadnt-been-inspected-in-the-past-five-years/?mobile=nc :x
My plant has been inspected once in 32 years. Because I called and asked them for it. Just saying.
A lot of people here have the idea that they'll be fired and blacklisted from ever working again for stuff like that. :x
I'm management. I told my boss we ought to do it, on account of it's non-punishable if you invite them in, and if you make any corrections on time, you're immune to any surprise inspections for 364 days, AND it will make the place SAFER, which is the point in the first place.
Your boss sounds fairly reasonable.
If something is fucked up, I have no problem reporting it to OSHA, I've done it. I reported the supermarket where I used to work for two years straight because they were too cheap to fix the heater and we were working in parkas and gloves some days (pain in the ass making change with gloves :P ). They couldn't PROVE I did it but I was fired later for a "mysterious" cash shortage. No loss since I HATED that job anyway, but I can see why people are hesitant.
Well america is certainly free then. I dont lippem to propaganda though no. Because propaganda is anything that disagrees with your point of view and ive already made up my mind on stuff.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 18, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Well america is certainly free then. I dont lippem to propaganda though no. Because propaganda is anything that disagrees with your point of view and ive already made up my mind on stuff.
Careful with that dissenting attitude! The same mind that warned us about "freedom is slavery" also warned us about the penalty for "thoughtcrime".
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Yeah, sorry. I saw the report go up and my brain went fizzle-pop. Logic went with it.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Yeah, sorry. I saw the report go up and my brain went fizzle-pop. Logic went with it.
Don't feel bad, the entire media establishment is doing the same thing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 18, 2013, 07:03:10 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Yeah, sorry. I saw the report go up and my brain went fizzle-pop. Logic went with it.
Don't feel bad, the entire media establishment is doing the same thing.
I think I feel bad anyway. If you want to split this stuff off or delete it or what, that would be great, thanks. My head is not a happy place lately and it's screwing up my two common sense neurons.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Yeah, sorry. I saw the report go up and my brain went fizzle-pop. Logic went with it.
Hey, no worries... it happens, especially after a big tragedy. Stuck in bomb mode. Humans are pattern-seekers.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:15:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 18, 2013, 07:17:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 18, 2013, 06:22:06 AM
I don't know if this needs its own thread or what. Do whatever.
More things going boom.
http://www.kwtx.com/news/local/headlines/Explosion-Injuries-Reported-At-West-Fertilizer-Plant-203505331.html
QuoteEmergency crews from throughout Central Texas responded just before 8 p.m. Wednesday after the first explosion at the plant in the small town north of Waco.
The explosion was reported at around 7:50 p.m. in a frantic radio call from the scene of the fire at West Fertilizer at 1471 Jerry Mashek Dr. just off Interstate 35.
The fire started in an anhydrous ammonia tank and spread to the building, authorities said.
Industrial accidents are bad and this is bad, but it isn't in the same category as bombing civilians.
Yeah, sorry. I saw the report go up and my brain went fizzle-pop. Logic went with it.
Hey, no worries... it happens, especially after a big tragedy. Stuck in bomb mode. Humans are pattern-seekers.
Case in point, the second I heard that an anyhdrous tank exploded, I instantly assumed it was a tweeker what done it.
So much for that backpack and duffel shit:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/runners-fingered-as-bombing-suspects-875362
Two more-
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/special-fbi-team-helps-id-boston-marathon-bomb/story?id=18986177#.UXBupbWG1xw (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/special-fbi-team-helps-id-boston-marathon-bomb/story?id=18986177#.UXBupbWG1xw)
Those are blurry as fuck.
Quote from: stelz on April 18, 2013, 10:53:10 PM
So much for that backpack and duffel shit:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/runners-fingered-as-bombing-suspects-875362
Color me unsurprised.
The guys look pretty suspect. Wearing single ear buds, jackets big enough to conceal a vest and their own full backpack each.
(http://i.imgur.com/jCgAf8Y.jpg)
Bad day to look suspicious anyways.
These press assholes are going to get someone killed.
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/malden-woman-attacked-man-accusing-muslims-marathon-bombings/goI1fmyQzBwjbt728pqqdK/story.html?sudsredirect=true
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 01:57:04 AM
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/malden-woman-attacked-man-accusing-muslims-marathon-bombings/goI1fmyQzBwjbt728pqqdK/story.html?sudsredirect=true
Can I stomp that guy?
Quote from: MMMW on April 19, 2013, 12:17:25 AM
The guys look pretty suspect. Wearing single ear buds, jackets big enough to conceal a vest and their own full backpack each.
(http://i.imgur.com/jCgAf8Y.jpg)
Bad day to look suspicious anyways.
Some guys over at some chan are making the assumption that these two schmucks work for a private security company called "craft", due to the logo on the one man's hat (the punisher skull is craft's logo).
The guys over on that site are circle jerking about whether they're perpetrators of some dastardly plot or (more likely) private security hired to provide event security.
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html]http://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Ah, so this is where things originate.
I dunno...jumping to the false flag conclusion is a bit stupid IMO. It was a big event; big events require big event security.
I know who
not to hire if I ever need hsld security, though.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 12:57:45 AM
These press assholes are going to get someone killed.
Yep.
Is it really hard to sue them these days, is that why they're doing it?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 01:57:04 AM
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/malden-woman-attacked-man-accusing-muslims-marathon-bombings/goI1fmyQzBwjbt728pqqdK/story.html?sudsredirect=true
:sad:
The WIC people and the cops were great though.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Um.
Source.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 04:52:54 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Um.
Source.
I have no idea.
Look, at moments i read dozens of pages or hear hours long conferences about Reptilians and the NWO and how they are demons for interest in TEH crazies. Basicly i ran a search on Google on "Craft security" and that caught my eye.
An MIT cop, but still. Dude died.
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2095733
ATTN BOSTON. CUT THE SHIT.
Doesn't say he died in the article?
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 05:00:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 04:52:54 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Um.
Source.
I have no idea.
Look, at moments i read dozens of pages or hear hours long conferences about Reptilians and the NWO and how they are demons for interest in TEH crazies. Basicly i ran a search on Google on "Craft security" and that caught my eye.
Dude, its flown off the handle now into crazyland with these theories...i swear that there are more bombers than there were JFK shooters at this point.
Pol was (as per their wont) linking to some youtube vid earlier that seemingly implicates the israel lobby because one of their guys indirectly stated that the us only goes to war when it gets struck first...so obviously craft is working under mossad orders to false flag the us into a war with iran...odd stuff.
Its been a busy week...
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:30:42 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 05:00:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 04:52:54 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Um.
Source.
I have no idea.
Look, at moments i read dozens of pages or hear hours long conferences about Reptilians and the NWO and how they are demons for interest in TEH crazies. Basicly i ran a search on Google on "Craft security" and that caught my eye.
Dude, its flown off the handle now into crazyland with these theories...i swear that there are more bombers than there were JFK shooters at this point.
Pol was (as per their wont) linking to some youtube vid earlier that seemingly implicates the israel lobby because one of their guys indirectly stated that the us only goes to war when it gets struck first...so obviously craft is working under mossad orders to false flag the us into a war with iran...odd stuff.
Pol? What is that?
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
I would be skeptical of anything on prisonplanet, because it's a conspiracy theorist playground and full of whackjobbery. Just FYI.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 05:45:18 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
I would be skeptical of anything on prisonplanet, because it's a conspiracy theorist playground and full of whackjobbery. Just FYI.
Yes, i already adressed this; this is an example of how people are spinning conspiracy theories.
HELLMOUTH?
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:23:21 AM
Doesn't say he died in the article?
It does now. I guess they updated it. This sucks. :(
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:31:37 AM
Its been a busy week...
That's one way to put it....
Sorry if it seemed rude...
Sifting through all of this bad shit's gotten me pretty stressed, man...
I noticed it really earlier today. Tried to play grammar nazi and made a mistake in punctuation. Then, tried to calculate the speed of a spacecraft as a multiple of the speed of light...ended up calculating it as a percent instead.
May seem trivial, but the fact that I'm noticing little things like that...
I need to stop reading the news for a bit...
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 05:39:38 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:30:42 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 05:00:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 04:52:54 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
Um.
Source.
I have no idea.
Look, at moments i read dozens of pages or hear hours long conferences about Reptilians and the NWO and how they are demons for interest in TEH crazies. Basicly i ran a search on Google on "Craft security" and that caught my eye.
Dude, its flown off the handle now into crazyland with these theories...i swear that there are more bombers than there were JFK shooters at this point.
Pol was (as per their wont) linking to some youtube vid earlier that seemingly implicates the israel lobby because one of their guys indirectly stated that the us only goes to war when it gets struck first...so obviously craft is working under mossad orders to false flag the us into a war with iran...odd stuff.
Pol? What is that?
Ah! /pol/...4chan's politics board. Big meme there is "if it happened, the jews did it". Hence the "mossad did it" thing coming from there.
I suggest avoiding the place...terribly racist, sexist, conspiratorial board -- entertaining nonetheless though.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 05:50:19 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 05:45:18 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 02:17:57 AM
hxxp://www.prisonplanet.com/more-photos-show-private-military-security-running-drills-at-boston-marathon.html
I would be skeptical of anything on prisonplanet, because it's a conspiracy theorist playground and full of whackjobbery. Just FYI.
Yes, i already adressed this; this is an example of how people are spinning conspiracy theories.
Oh, OK, missed that.
1. Something really bad happens
2. People make shit up
3. Nothing is solved
4. Legislators GIT TUFF ON CRIME and we lose even MORE freedom
5. Repeat
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 06:30:26 AM
1. Something really bad happens
2. People make shit up
3. Nothing is solved
4. Legislators GIT TUFF ON CRIME and we lose even MORE freedom
5. Repeat
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,33029.msg1198982.html#msg1198982
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 06:03:08 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:31:37 AM
Its been a busy week...
That's one way to put it....
Sorry if it seemed rude...
Sifting through all of this bad shit's gotten me pretty stressed, man...
I noticed it really earlier today. Tried to play grammar nazi and made a mistake in punctuation. Then, tried to calculate the speed of a spacecraft as a multiple of the speed of light...ended up calculating it as a percent instead.
May seem trivial, but the fact that I'm noticing little things like that...
I need to stop reading the news for a bit...
S'ok. Is my city though. Or collection of cities, since MIT is in Cambridge and I live in Somerville.
Everything's going sideways up there, WTF?
http://www.kcra.com/news/Gunfire-explosions-reported-9-miles-from-Boston/-/11797728/19812366/-/mxypm/-/index.html?absolute=true
Quote from: The Johnny on April 19, 2013, 06:43:23 AM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 06:30:26 AM
1. Something really bad happens
2. People make shit up
3. Nothing is solved
4. Legislators GIT TUFF ON CRIME and we lose even MORE freedom
5. Repeat
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,33029.msg1198982.html#msg1198982
Yeah, definitely that.
Hey, more boom. :sad:
http://www.kcra.com/news/Gunfire-explosions-reported-9-miles-from-Boston/-/11797728/19812366/-/mxypm/-/index.html?absolute=true
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 06:44:39 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 06:03:08 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:31:37 AM
Its been a busy week...
That's one way to put it....
Sorry if it seemed rude...
Sifting through all of this bad shit's gotten me pretty stressed, man...
I noticed it really earlier today. Tried to play grammar nazi and made a mistake in punctuation. Then, tried to calculate the speed of a spacecraft as a multiple of the speed of light...ended up calculating it as a percent instead.
May seem trivial, but the fact that I'm noticing little things like that...
I need to stop reading the news for a bit...
S'ok. Is my city though. Or collection of cities, since MIT is in Cambridge and I live in Somerville.
Hope everything smooths over, then. From the things im reading atm...something about grenades?
Dont know your areas geography, but i hope things stay safe for you...
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 06:50:31 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 06:44:39 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 06:03:08 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 05:31:37 AM
Its been a busy week...
That's one way to put it....
Sorry if it seemed rude...
Sifting through all of this bad shit's gotten me pretty stressed, man...
I noticed it really earlier today. Tried to play grammar nazi and made a mistake in punctuation. Then, tried to calculate the speed of a spacecraft as a multiple of the speed of light...ended up calculating it as a percent instead.
May seem trivial, but the fact that I'm noticing little things like that...
I need to stop reading the news for a bit...
S'ok. Is my city though. Or collection of cities, since MIT is in Cambridge and I live in Somerville.
Hope everything smooths over, then. From the things im reading atm...something about grenades?
Dont know your areas geography, but i hope things stay safe for you...
Somerville borders both Boston and Cambridge and is the most densely populated city in New England, but I'm on a fairly quiet street. I heard about the grenades too. A friend of mine apparently heard explosions in the distance. It's also late here though. This all started happening at around 10 or 11, I think.
We have violent crime and whatnot, but this is a bit intense for us.
Plus, like, explosives and shit. We usually just get the knifey-shooty type of stuff.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:11:32 AM
We have violent crime and whatnot, but this is a bit intense for us.
Plus, like, explosives and shit. We usually just get the knifey-shooty type of stuff.
Well yeah. Offhand I can't think of any on-purpose explosives there in living memory.
I'm receiving offhand reports that the suspects here are the bombing suspects.
Its hard to follow, though...I'm getting data principally via police scanners.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 19, 2013, 08:26:42 AM
I'm receiving offhand reports that the suspects here are the bombing suspects.
Its hard to follow, though...I'm getting data principally via police scanners.
The BBC have said the same thing.
QuoteUS police are hunting a suspect in Monday's deadly Boston Marathon bombing in a small town near the city.
A huge police operation started after an officer was shot dead on a university campus.
One suspect was killed during a car-chase and shoot-out in Watertown, six miles (10km) from Boston.
Another suspect, shown in images from the Boston Marathon wearing a white baseball cap, was on the run in Watertown.
Police said in a statement the two men were suspected of killing a police officer on campus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) late on Thursday.
They then stole a car at gunpoint and drove away with the car's owner still on board.
One suspect killed in a shootout with police, according to the BBC. The other is being pursued.
Ok, so they killed one of them...
Word is they're from Chechnya.
Chechnya?
Cain, what do you know about the various political/radical factions over there? My world politics is for shit.
Oh, they've shut down Watertown completely (no one is to be on the streets), and they've stopped all subway, bus, and commuter rail service. ALL OF IT.
This is so weird.
This can now offically be merged with the Things Go Boom thread.
It occurs to me that I am in the middle of a domestic military action in response to a criminal act. This seems to be the first of it's kind (although, South Central LA in the 90s was probably close).
Boston: Birth of the old America, and ushers in the New America.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 12:15:51 PM
It occurs to me that I am in the middle of a domestic military action in response to a criminal act. This seems to be the first of it's kind (although, South Central LA in the 90s was probably close).
Boston: Birth of the old America, and ushers in the New America.
It's not a criminal act, it's an act of TERRUR
tmWe're at war with TERRUR
tmWar is all soldiers and tanks and shit.
Try to keep up!
In the firefight (the audio of which is SCARY AND AWESOME AS HELL), these guys were throwing bombs and shit.
I need to check to see which universe we're in today.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 12:21:42 PM
In the firefight (the audio of which is SCARY AND AWESOME AS HELL), these guys were throwing bombs and shit.
I need to check to see which universe we're in today.
Todays Sesame Street has been brought to you by Joel Silver and by the letter C and the number 4 :eek:
Come to think of it wasn't there some muppet in england, in a siege a year or so back, lobbing nades at filth from a bedroom window?
Don't tell me the UK is pulling ahead of the US in terms of weapon-crime :eek:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
Ok, so they killed one of them...
Word is they're from Chechnya.
Chechnya?
Cain, what do you know about the various political/radical factions over there? My world politics is for shit.
Until Cain can get back to us with something more legit, allow me to attempt to whet your appetite as to who the Chechens are:
Basically, the Chechen people are a Caucasian (actual caucasians...not our feeble word for "white") people who live in the Republic of Chechnya. They primarily practice Islam of the Sunni variety, and in "the old days" were subjects to the USSR.
After the USSR split, the Russian federation has tried time and time again to conquer Chechnya, and the Chechens have not only repelled these attacks, but also invaded the Russian subject of Dagestan on occasion.
tl;dr, the Chechens are a people who've been bothered by the Russians, and in return they cause some bother back.
Concerning our two bombers, it would seem that the dead one, a mr. Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was simply alienated from living in american society. A "stranger in a strange land" who decided to go blow some folk up. Tamerlan says: "I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them."
Appearantly, the other guy was his brother...so, two alienated Chechens decided to blow off steam?
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Granted the brothers are clearly not of sound mind, but I don't understand the logic of "I feel so disconnected. I don't understand anyone. So fuck it I'm going to blow up innocent people." :?
Still unclear where they're really from. I'm hearing both Chechen, Dagestani, born in Kyrgyzstan, lived in the US for 10 years. Could still be ANYTHING. Could be related to the ongoing Islamist insurgency in the Northern Caucasus, could be completely unrelated.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:05:40 PM
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Are you in the lockdown area?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2013, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 12:21:42 PM
In the firefight (the audio of which is SCARY AND AWESOME AS HELL), these guys were throwing bombs and shit.
I need to check to see which universe we're in today.
Todays Sesame Street has been brought to you by Joel Silver and by the letter C and the number 4 :eek:
:mittens:
Surviving brother is from Kyrgyzstan...
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
Ok, so they killed one of them...
Word is they're from Chechnya.
Chechnya?
Cain, what do you know about the various political/radical factions over there? My world politics is for shit.
Chechnya almost certainly means Islamist extremists. There were more nationalist factions over there, but they got co-opted in the 90s.
FSB (Russian intelligence) wiped out the leadership of the largest group over there, the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, in 2006, with the assassination of Shamil Basayev and others by truck bomb.
Since then, the main insurgent group in the region has been the Caucasian Front, the military wing of the so-called Caucasian Emirate. Dokka Umarov, the "President" of the Emirate, is said to have links to Al-Qaeda. Of course, everyone has "links" to Al-Qaeda nowadays, so make of that what you will. According to the UN documents pursuant to that allegation, he had particular links with the Islamic Jihad Group and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, both of which had camps in Afghanistan and subsequently fled into the NWFP of Pakistan after the 2002 invasion.
Umarov, despite having international Islamist tendencies of the kind that Al-Qaeda have, has nevertheless urged his own people not to get involved in the Syrian insurgency and presumably this also applies to other overseas adventures.
While the Chechen insurgency assumes a lower press profile nowdays, it is probably worse than it was in the early 2000s, as violence has spread into Ingushetia and Dagestan. There are also fears that Sochi, the site of the Winter Olympics, will also be targeted by insurgents.
According to Nafeez Ahmed, a UK based academic and expert on international security issues:
QuoteFrom the mid-1990s, bin Laden funded Chechen guerrilla leaders Shamil Basayev and Omar ibn al-Khattab to the tune of several millions of dollars per month, sidelining the moderate Chechen majority. US intelligence remained deeply involved until the end of the decade. According to Yossef Bodanksy, then-Director of the US Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Washington was actively involved in 'yet another anti-Russian jihad, 'seeking to support and empower the most virulent anti-Western Islamist forces'. US Government officials participated in 'a formal meeting in Azerbaijan' in December 1999 'in which specific programmes for the training and equipping of mujahidin from the Caucasus, Central/South Asia and the Arab world were discussed and agreed upon', culminating in 'Washington's tacit encouragement of both Muslim allies (mainly Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia) and US "private security companies"... to assist the Chechens and their Islamist allies to surge in the spring of 2000 and sustain the ensuing jihad for a long time.' The US saw the sponsorship of 'Islamist jihad in the Caucasus' as a way to 'deprive Russia of a viable pipeline route through spiraling violence and terrorism'.
Bodansky is not the most reliable of sources, in my opinion, but I have long suspected that there were tacit links between Al-Qaeda, the CIA and local Islamist insurgents in the Balkans and Caucasian mountains throughout the 1990s. Sibel Edmonds has also made similar allegations which would seem to support the Turkish support angle. During the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan in the early 1990s, the latter made use of mujahideen provideded by the Pakistani ISI, especially as special forces operating behind Armenian lines of control. The Turkish Grey Wolves, a fascist terrorist group with links to the Department for Special Warfare, a Turkish intelligence outfit which did a lot of work with the CIA, were also present in Azerbaijan, and one of their members was even a cabinet member.
Azerbaijan is also interesting because of its links to the American Republican establishment, in particular the Neoconservative movement. The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce had on its "Honorary Council of Advisors": James Baker, Lloyd Bentson, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Dick Cheney (resigned after the Nov 2000 election), Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu. Richard Perle was a Trustee; until his State Department appointment, Richard Armitage sat on the Board.
There were reports of Chechens fighting alongside Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, but they were never verified. One problem is that it seems locals called any light-skinned Russian-speaking militant a "Chechen", regardless of actual ethnic origin. Secondly, Al-Qaeda itself had a good reasont to imply their presence, as it suggested the jihad was more international and less Pashtun and Arabic. The Taliban has denied the presence of Chechen fighters in the country, but then the Taliban has also denied that there are Uzbeks and Arabs fighting alongside them, which is...well, very wrong, to put it mildly.
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:05:40 PM
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Are you in the lockdown area?
Let's just say they locked down our public transportation in Providence also, and we're 50 miles away.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:05:40 PM
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Are you in the lockdown area?
Let's just say they locked down our public transportation in Providence also, and we're 50 miles away.
feck.
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:31:57 PM
Surviving brother is from Kyrgyzstan...
Dzhokhar is a Chechen name. It is, in fact, the name of the first President of the Chechen Republic.
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:33:47 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:05:40 PM
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Are you in the lockdown area?
Let's just say they locked down our public transportation in Providence also, and we're 50 miles away.
feck.
It looks like our buses are running, but no Boston-bound buses or trains are moving. Reports of armored police at the stations, so walking downtown should be AWESOME.
Merged the cop shooter thread with this one.
Not sorry for any confusion this causes readers.
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:05:40 PM
De Facto martial law has been extened to all of Boston.
Are you in the lockdown area?
It's been extended to all of Boston.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:37:44 PM
Merged the cop shooter thread with this one.
Not sorry for any confusion this causes readers.
:regret:
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:37:44 PM
Merged the cop shooter thread with this one.
Not sorry for any confusion this causes readers.
it's cool. Watching the BBC live feed atm
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:32:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
Ok, so they killed one of them...
Word is they're from Chechnya.
Chechnya?
Cain, what do you know about the various political/radical factions over there? My world politics is for shit.
Chechnya almost certainly means Islamist extremists. There were more nationalist factions over there, but they got co-opted in the 90s.
FSB (Russian intelligence) wiped out the leadership of the largest group over there, the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, in 2006, with the assassination of Shamil Basayev and others by truck bomb.
Since then, the main insurgent group in the region has been the Caucasian Front, the military wing of the so-called Caucasian Emirate. Dokka Umarov, the "President" of the Emirate, is said to have links to Al-Qaeda. Of course, everyone has "links" to Al-Qaeda nowadays, so make of that what you will. According to the UN documents pursuant to that allegation, he had particular links with the Islamic Jihad Group and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, both of which had camps in Afghanistan and subsequently fled into the NWFP of Pakistan after the 2002 invasion.
Umarov, despite having international Islamist tendencies of the kind that Al-Qaeda have, has nevertheless urged his own people not to get involved in the Syrian insurgency and presumably this also applies to other overseas adventures.
While the Chechen insurgency assumes a lower press profile nowdays, it is probably worse than it was in the early 2000s, as violence has spread into Ingushetia and Dagestan. There are also fears that Sochi, the site of the Winter Olympics, will also be targeted by insurgents.
According to Nafeez Ahmed, a UK based academic and expert on international security issues:
QuoteFrom the mid-1990s, bin Laden funded Chechen guerrilla leaders Shamil Basayev and Omar ibn al-Khattab to the tune of several millions of dollars per month, sidelining the moderate Chechen majority. US intelligence remained deeply involved until the end of the decade. According to Yossef Bodanksy, then-Director of the US Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Washington was actively involved in 'yet another anti-Russian jihad, 'seeking to support and empower the most virulent anti-Western Islamist forces'. US Government officials participated in 'a formal meeting in Azerbaijan' in December 1999 'in which specific programmes for the training and equipping of mujahidin from the Caucasus, Central/South Asia and the Arab world were discussed and agreed upon', culminating in 'Washington's tacit encouragement of both Muslim allies (mainly Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia) and US "private security companies"... to assist the Chechens and their Islamist allies to surge in the spring of 2000 and sustain the ensuing jihad for a long time.' The US saw the sponsorship of 'Islamist jihad in the Caucasus' as a way to 'deprive Russia of a viable pipeline route through spiraling violence and terrorism'.
Bodansky is not the most reliable of sources, in my opinion, but I have long suspected that there were tacit links between Al-Qaeda, the CIA and local Islamist insurgents in the Balkans and Caucasian mountains throughout the 1990s. Sibel Edmonds has also made similar allegations which would seem to support the Turkish support angle. During the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan in the early 1990s, the latter made use of mujahideen provideded by the Pakistani ISI, especially as special forces operating behind Armenian lines of control. The Turkish Grey Wolves, a fascist terrorist group with links to the Department for Special Warfare, a Turkish intelligence outfit which did a lot of work with the CIA, were also present in Azerbaijan, and one of their members was even a cabinet member.
Azerbaijan is also interesting because of its links to the American Republican establishment, in particular the Neoconservative movement. The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce had on its "Honorary Council of Advisors": James Baker, Lloyd Bentson, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Dick Cheney (resigned after the Nov 2000 election), Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu. Richard Perle was a Trustee; until his State Department appointment, Richard Armitage sat on the Board.
There were reports of Chechens fighting alongside Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, but they were never verified. One problem is that it seems locals called any light-skinned Russian-speaking militant a "Chechen", regardless of actual ethnic origin. Secondly, Al-Qaeda itself had a good reasont to imply their presence, as it suggested the jihad was more international and less Pashtun and Arabic. The Taliban has denied the presence of Chechen fighters in the country, but then the Taliban has also denied that there are Uzbeks and Arabs fighting alongside them, which is...well, very wrong, to put it mildly.
So other than "USA is Satan", are there any motivations for blowing up the marathon on tax day?
What tickles me, is that they didn't even try to flee the city this week.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:32:29 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
Ok, so they killed one of them...
Word is they're from Chechnya.
Chechnya?
Cain, what do you know about the various political/radical factions over there? My world politics is for shit.
Chechnya almost certainly means Islamist extremists. There were more nationalist factions over there, but they got co-opted in the 90s.
FSB (Russian intelligence) wiped out the leadership of the largest group over there, the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, in 2006, with the assassination of Shamil Basayev and others by truck bomb.
Since then, the main insurgent group in the region has been the Caucasian Front, the military wing of the so-called Caucasian Emirate. Dokka Umarov, the "President" of the Emirate, is said to have links to Al-Qaeda. Of course, everyone has "links" to Al-Qaeda nowadays, so make of that what you will. According to the UN documents pursuant to that allegation, he had particular links with the Islamic Jihad Group and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, both of which had camps in Afghanistan and subsequently fled into the NWFP of Pakistan after the 2002 invasion.
Umarov, despite having international Islamist tendencies of the kind that Al-Qaeda have, has nevertheless urged his own people not to get involved in the Syrian insurgency and presumably this also applies to other overseas adventures.
While the Chechen insurgency assumes a lower press profile nowdays, it is probably worse than it was in the early 2000s, as violence has spread into Ingushetia and Dagestan. There are also fears that Sochi, the site of the Winter Olympics, will also be targeted by insurgents.
According to Nafeez Ahmed, a UK based academic and expert on international security issues:
QuoteFrom the mid-1990s, bin Laden funded Chechen guerrilla leaders Shamil Basayev and Omar ibn al-Khattab to the tune of several millions of dollars per month, sidelining the moderate Chechen majority. US intelligence remained deeply involved until the end of the decade. According to Yossef Bodanksy, then-Director of the US Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Washington was actively involved in 'yet another anti-Russian jihad, 'seeking to support and empower the most virulent anti-Western Islamist forces'. US Government officials participated in 'a formal meeting in Azerbaijan' in December 1999 'in which specific programmes for the training and equipping of mujahidin from the Caucasus, Central/South Asia and the Arab world were discussed and agreed upon', culminating in 'Washington's tacit encouragement of both Muslim allies (mainly Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia) and US "private security companies"... to assist the Chechens and their Islamist allies to surge in the spring of 2000 and sustain the ensuing jihad for a long time.' The US saw the sponsorship of 'Islamist jihad in the Caucasus' as a way to 'deprive Russia of a viable pipeline route through spiraling violence and terrorism'.
Bodansky is not the most reliable of sources, in my opinion, but I have long suspected that there were tacit links between Al-Qaeda, the CIA and local Islamist insurgents in the Balkans and Caucasian mountains throughout the 1990s. Sibel Edmonds has also made similar allegations which would seem to support the Turkish support angle. During the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan in the early 1990s, the latter made use of mujahideen provideded by the Pakistani ISI, especially as special forces operating behind Armenian lines of control. The Turkish Grey Wolves, a fascist terrorist group with links to the Department for Special Warfare, a Turkish intelligence outfit which did a lot of work with the CIA, were also present in Azerbaijan, and one of their members was even a cabinet member.
Azerbaijan is also interesting because of its links to the American Republican establishment, in particular the Neoconservative movement. The US-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce had on its "Honorary Council of Advisors": James Baker, Lloyd Bentson, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Dick Cheney (resigned after the Nov 2000 election), Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft, John Sununu. Richard Perle was a Trustee; until his State Department appointment, Richard Armitage sat on the Board.
There were reports of Chechens fighting alongside Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, but they were never verified. One problem is that it seems locals called any light-skinned Russian-speaking militant a "Chechen", regardless of actual ethnic origin. Secondly, Al-Qaeda itself had a good reasont to imply their presence, as it suggested the jihad was more international and less Pashtun and Arabic. The Taliban has denied the presence of Chechen fighters in the country, but then the Taliban has also denied that there are Uzbeks and Arabs fighting alongside them, which is...well, very wrong, to put it mildly.
As usual, Cain is brilliant. Thank you.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
What tickles me, is that they didn't even try to flee the city this week.
I find that quite odd, myself.
Not any good ones. The insurgents more see Russia as the Great Satan - which makes sense, when Russian troops are occupying the area and doing all the sort of things an occupying army normally does. You know, shooting people in the face, torture, demolishing buildings suspected to be habouring militants, rape, looting and that fun stuff.
However, just because they're (probably) Chechen doesn't necessarily mean they're doing this for Chechen nationalist reasons.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
What tickles me, is that they didn't even try to flee the city this week.
I find that quite odd, myself.
From the sound of it, they were planning more bombings. They had bombs to use against the police chasing them, after all.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:48:36 PM
Not any good ones. The insurgents more see Russia as the Great Satan - which makes sense, when Russian troops are occupying the area and doing all the sort of things an occupying army normally does. You know, shooting people in the face, torture, demolishing buildings suspected to be habouring militants, rape, looting and that fun stuff.
However, just because they're (probably) Chechen doesn't necessarily mean they're doing this for Chechen nationalist reasons.
Not when life has already given them a religion to turn extreme to in reaction to a society which they feel alienated from. Maybe this is Three Lions but set in america and much less funny.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
What tickles me, is that they didn't even try to flee the city this week.
I find that quite odd, myself.
From the sound of it, they were planning more bombings. They had bombs to use against the police chasing them, after all.
Understandable, but for people who apparently have been living in Boston for 10 years, you'd think they'd be well aware of things such as media coverage, high photographic coverage, and the fact that the Pru is surrounded by surveillance cameras.
Sloppy. IMO.
Quote from: Aucoq on April 19, 2013, 01:10:28 PM
Granted the brothers are clearly not of sound mind, but I don't understand the logic of "I feel so disconnected. I don't understand anyone. So fuck it I'm going to blow up innocent people." :?
Quote from: Rethinking the Roots of TerrorismBurton argued that the roots of conflict existed as unsatisfied human needs, which were often supplanted by the power requirements of the state and society. He sug-gested individuals in society would pursue their needs within the confines and norms of society. If however, these needs become frustrated they will resort to methods outside of these norms.
Quotezar built on Burton's work and identified that the cause of conflict was often located not necessarily in the needs of individuals but in the relationship between individuals in identity groups and the state. Azar called this 'disarticulation between the state and society'. Crucially, Azar identified that individual needs and values where represented by social groups and it is the needs of these groups in society that have to be fulfilled. He suggested, 'Protracted social conflict arose due to com-munities deprived of satisfaction of basic needs on the basis of communal identity'. To tackle this he developed a framework that comprised of four areas of investigation designed to expose all the pos-sible causes of the conflict. The first area, 'communal', is an analysis of the identity groups involved in the conflict to establish racial, religious, ethnic and cultural influences and relationships. The second is based on the depravation of human needs, the most important of which Azar considers to be the 'safety needs'. These include security, identity, representation and equality. The third area scrutinises the role of the state and governance in order to examine how human needs are satisfied by the state. Finally, Azar included international linkages; an area intended to ascertain the nature of the socio-economic relationship with other states, particularly stronger ones.
This approach to understanding the causes of armed conflict by identifying the relation-ship between the needs of identity groups and (state) governance is increasingly becoming accepted into mainstream approaches to conflict. It is illustrated by the construction of a comprehensive and multi-level model for identifying the sources of contemporary conflict, recognised as 'international social conflicts' by Miall et al, which seeks to demonstrate the complexity of contemporary conflict.
QuoteIt is apparent from these arguments that the structural roots of conflict are in the interaction between actors. This is typified by conflict behaviour in the form of the pursuit of incompatible goals within the incumbent social structure or system and is created by human activity. However, is it also possible to suggest that the roots of conflict also exist in the relationship between actor and perceived goal. At the apex of Galtung's conflict triangle is 'contradiction' (conflict situation), which is the actual or perceived incompatibility of actors and is
defined by Galtung as 'incompatible goal-states in a goal seeking system'.
Galtung argues that this is a structural cause of the conflict. He suggests, '[D]eep inside every conflict lies a contradiction – a problem that requires a solution'. Bercovitch combines these ideas in 'situationalist theory' and although he recognises the importance of human involvement he stresses that it is the situation that generates incompatible goals or values among different parties.
In a similar theory, Boulding argues for a more general understanding. He suggests that conflict arises as a result of the stress and strain of social relationships. He lists structural variables that together with dynamic variables comprise the 'strain (war) functions', which in times of conflict outweigh the 'strength (peace) functions'.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:49:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
What tickles me, is that they didn't even try to flee the city this week.
I find that quite odd, myself.
From the sound of it, they were planning more bombings. They had bombs to use against the police chasing them, after all.
Understandable, but for people who apparently have been living in Boston for 10 years, you'd think they'd be well aware of things such as media coverage, high photographic coverage, and the fact that the Pru is surrounded by surveillance cameras.
Sloppy. IMO.
Sunken cost fallacy. They'd commited themselves to a terrorist campaign, I'm assuming, and it is likely their future targets were in Boston and the surrounding area. They probably knew they'd get caught and it was only a matter of time, but the aim was to cause as much destruction and death as possible in the meantime.
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
:um:
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
Everyone knows white Muslims have to go blackface once they convert.
Amusing and somewhat related anecdote: due to the Russian Special Forces blacking up before night operations, there were rumours for years in Afghanistan that Cubans had a military force in the country. So it's not just the Chechens who get mistaken by Afghan villagers.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: Aucoq on April 19, 2013, 01:10:28 PM
Granted the brothers are clearly not of sound mind, but I don't understand the logic of "I feel so disconnected. I don't understand anyone. So fuck it I'm going to blow up innocent people." :?
Quote from: Rethinking the Roots of TerrorismBurton argued that the roots of conflict existed as unsatisfied human needs, which were often supplanted by the power requirements of the state and society. He sug-gested individuals in society would pursue their needs within the confines and norms of society. If however, these needs become frustrated they will resort to methods outside of these norms.
Quotezar built on Burton's work and identified that the cause of conflict was often located not necessarily in the needs of individuals but in the relationship between individuals in identity groups and the state. Azar called this 'disarticulation between the state and society'. Crucially, Azar identified that individual needs and values where represented by social groups and it is the needs of these groups in society that have to be fulfilled. He suggested, 'Protracted social conflict arose due to com-munities deprived of satisfaction of basic needs on the basis of communal identity'. To tackle this he developed a framework that comprised of four areas of investigation designed to expose all the pos-sible causes of the conflict. The first area, 'communal', is an analysis of the identity groups involved in the conflict to establish racial, religious, ethnic and cultural influences and relationships. The second is based on the depravation of human needs, the most important of which Azar considers to be the 'safety needs'. These include security, identity, representation and equality. The third area scrutinises the role of the state and governance in order to examine how human needs are satisfied by the state. Finally, Azar included international linkages; an area intended to ascertain the nature of the socio-economic relationship with other states, particularly stronger ones.
This approach to understanding the causes of armed conflict by identifying the relation-ship between the needs of identity groups and (state) governance is increasingly becoming accepted into mainstream approaches to conflict. It is illustrated by the construction of a comprehensive and multi-level model for identifying the sources of contemporary conflict, recognised as 'international social conflicts' by Miall et al, which seeks to demonstrate the complexity of contemporary conflict.
QuoteIt is apparent from these arguments that the structural roots of conflict are in the interaction between actors. This is typified by conflict behaviour in the form of the pursuit of incompatible goals within the incumbent social structure or system and is created by human activity. However, is it also possible to suggest that the roots of conflict also exist in the relationship between actor and perceived goal. At the apex of Galtung's conflict triangle is 'contradiction' (conflict situation), which is the actual or perceived incompatibility of actors and is
defined by Galtung as 'incompatible goal-states in a goal seeking system'.
Galtung argues that this is a structural cause of the conflict. He suggests, '[D]eep inside every conflict lies a contradiction – a problem that requires a solution'. Bercovitch combines these ideas in 'situationalist theory' and although he recognises the importance of human involvement he stresses that it is the situation that generates incompatible goals or values among different parties.
In a similar theory, Boulding argues for a more general understanding. He suggests that conflict arises as a result of the stress and strain of social relationships. He lists structural variables that together with dynamic variables comprise the 'strain (war) functions', which in times of conflict outweigh the 'strength (peace) functions'.
Wow! Thank you for the amazing reply, Cain! That's an interesting and in depth read. I appreciate it!
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
:um:
Yeah, I think that was my exact reaction.
Also, if you want to listen: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web/?rl=rr
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 01:55:08 PM'[D]eep inside every conflict lies a contradiction – a problem that requires a solution'.
So much this!
Killing the bastards or locking them up for life isn't addressing this problem.
It's addressing another problem, itself a consequence of the first one.
Kind of like tackling drugs by ignoring dealers and traffickers and going after only users.
Quote from: Aucoq on April 19, 2013, 02:04:53 PM
Wow! Thank you for the amazing reply, Cain! That's an interesting and in depth read. I appreciate it!
Sorry that I couldn't get something that more directly addressed the psychology behind it, though that should do for an overview. I'm a bit busy dragging up all my resources on the Chechen insurgency and related topics...
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2013, 02:09:27 PM
So much this!
Killing the bastards or locking them up for life isn't addressing this problem.
It's addressing another problem, itself a consequence of the first one.
Kind of like tackling drugs by ignoring dealers and traffickers and going after only users.
Well, the thesis of the person whose book I quoted that from is that the state avoids the "root causes" of terrorism for fear of causing a crisis of legitimacy which may erode the state's exclusive claim to violence.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: Aucoq on April 19, 2013, 02:04:53 PM
Wow! Thank you for the amazing reply, Cain! That's an interesting and in depth read. I appreciate it!
Sorry that I couldn't get something that more directly addressed the psychology behind it, though that should do for an overview. I'm a bit busy dragging up all my resources on the Chechen insurgency and related topics...
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 19, 2013, 02:09:27 PM
So much this!
Killing the bastards or locking them up for life isn't addressing this problem.
It's addressing another problem, itself a consequence of the first one.
Kind of like tackling drugs by ignoring dealers and traffickers and going after only users.
Well, the thesis of the person whose book I quoted that from is that the state avoids the "root causes" of terrorism for fear of causing a crisis of legitimacy which may erode the state's exclusive claim to violence.
Heh! Cynical but probably pretty fucking on the mark in a lot of cases.
Holy shit guys :sad:
I hope you're all ok up there.
only tangentially related, but it's quite a coincidence; this guy (http://kikn.com/man-miraculously-survives-boston-and-texas-explosions/) goes up to Boston to run the marathon, crossing the finish line moments before the first bomb, then flies back to his home in TX where he was driving on I35 through West, where he was close enough to feel the blast of that explosion!
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on April 19, 2013, 02:32:22 PM
only tangentially related, but it's quite a coincidence; this guy (http://kikn.com/man-miraculously-survives-boston-and-texas-explosions/) goes up to Boston to run the marathon, crossing the finish line moments before the first bomb, then flies back to his home in TX where he was driving on I35 through West, where he was close enough to feel the blast of that explosion!
That guy is going to have some stories to tell his grandkids.
He's on the fucking run. CT and RI have been notified to lookout for his car. They think he's headed to NYC.
Word of a third accomplice, who was stripped before being put in the cop car, due to fear of hidden bombs.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 02:41:14 PM
He's on the fucking run. CT and RI have been notified to lookout for his car. They think he's headed to NYC.
Looks like he's holed up in Watertown.
They are looking for 2 other people now.
Local news says state police/SWAT are quietly clearing out a section of Watertown.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on April 19, 2013, 02:32:22 PM
only tangentially related, but it's quite a coincidence; this guy (http://kikn.com/man-miraculously-survives-boston-and-texas-explosions/) goes up to Boston to run the marathon, crossing the finish line moments before the first bomb, then flies back to his home in TX where he was driving on I35 through West, where he was close enough to feel the blast of that explosion!
House prices near to where that guy lives must be dropping fast.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:23:36 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 17, 2013, 04:21:14 AM
I'm still avoiding speculation, but I can't see any flaws.
I can. I'm speculating. I am also not an expert. I have some counterinsurgency training, way the fuck back in the stone age, but that was in terms of infantry in suppression of, not political motivations for, terrorists.
But it's a good guess, I think, and I'm sort of sticking to it until facts either prove me right or cause me to publicly wallow in my shame.
*wallow, wallow*
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:19:55 AM
No, I think it was a local. Why? Because the Boston Marathon is a regional thing. Outside of Boston and the marathon/self-flaggelation crowd, it's unknown. So it was someone from that region. It occurred on tax day, so it was more than likely a right wing loon. I can accept the possibility that it was a local self-radicalized Muslim or something like that, but that possibility seems pretty slim. The choices of date & target don't add up. The symbolism is all wrong.
Given the incompetence in the bomb making, I assume it was an amateur, another Eric Rudolph, maybe.
And Roger's gut leads him wrong.
It's still possible this isn't a Muslim thing.
I mean, the odds are definitely higher that it is. But I'm waiting to see what we find out before jumping to any conclusions. Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
I must have missed that, because Enki. But it's a pretty interesting theory.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
I must have missed that, because Enki. But it's a pretty interesting theory.
Enki? Plausible? :eek:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
I must have missed that, because Enki. But it's a pretty interesting theory.
It was on IRC, just now. Essentially, the theory is the FBI radicalised these guys, but they got too enthusiastic and made the bombs themselves, instead of waiting for duds from their handler.
It's possible, it has happened before. But we can't know for sure this early into the investigation.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 02:49:44 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 02:41:14 PM
He's on the fucking run. CT and RI have been notified to lookout for his car. They think he's headed to NYC.
Looks like he's holed up in Watertown.
They are looking for 2 other people now.
That's not what I just heard.
GO MEDIA! WOOOO!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 17, 2013, 04:19:55 AM
No, I think it was a local. Why? Because the Boston Marathon is a regional thing. Outside of Boston and the marathon/self-flaggelation crowd, it's unknown. So it was someone from that region. It occurred on tax day, so it was more than likely a right wing loon. I can accept the possibility that it was a local self-radicalized Muslim or something like that, but that possibility seems pretty slim. The choices of date & target don't add up. The symbolism is all wrong.
Given the incompetence in the bomb making, I assume it was an amateur, another Eric Rudolph, maybe.
And Roger's gut leads him wrong.
Hey at least you didn't nearly get the wrong guy killed like reddit and 4chan did.
They've evacuated UMass Dartmouth, my girlfriend's school, due to one of the suspects' ties. This apartment might be a temporary shelter in a little bit after her invite goes out.
I don't trust the news but I still trust George. :horrormirth:
(http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc322/fennario99/takei.jpg)
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
:facepalm:
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:59:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
I must have missed that, because Enki. But it's a pretty interesting theory.
It was on IRC, just now. Essentially, the theory is the FBI radicalised these guys, but they got too enthusiastic and made the bombs themselves, instead of waiting for duds from their handler.
It's possible, it has happened before. But we can't know for sure this early into the investigation.
The FBI needs to STOP DOING THIS.
They did it with a college student here in Oregon too, set him up to bomb the Christmas tree lighting and then busted him so they could justify their own existence. It's completely unacceptable and wrong, because they are taking lonely disturbed people who authentically need an intervention to turn the direction of their lives positive, and instead grooming them to become actual terrorists. I don't understand on what planet that would be considered ethical or even safe. With tactics like that a tragedy of this nature was inevitable. They aren't stopping terrorists, they're creating them.
Didn't read the rest of the thread, me and the kids are still on the other end of the state. Fuck all this shit.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 03:59:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:59:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 02:55:19 PM
Even the very plausible theory offered by Enki about an FBI entrapment operation gone wrong.
I must have missed that, because Enki. But it's a pretty interesting theory.
It was on IRC, just now. Essentially, the theory is the FBI radicalised these guys, but they got too enthusiastic and made the bombs themselves, instead of waiting for duds from their handler.
It's possible, it has happened before. But we can't know for sure this early into the investigation.
The FBI needs to STOP DOING THIS.
They did it with a college student here in Oregon too, set him up to bomb the Christmas tree lighting and then busted him so they could justify their own existence. It's completely unacceptable and wrong, because they are taking lonely disturbed people who authentically need an intervention to turn the direction of their lives positive, and instead grooming them to become actual terrorists. I don't understand on what planet that would be considered ethical or even safe. With tactics like that a tragedy of this nature was inevitable. They aren't stopping terrorists, they're creating them.
It's also entrapment, just like the DEA flashing a bankroll at a casual user who's hard up for money and asking them to score a large quantity of drugs - only
worse, which is SURREAL. That USED to be illegal, until the 80's IIRC. Everything started REALLY GOING TO SHIT in the 80's.
Takei says "For those following this feed, the suspect's gray Honda CRV has been found abandoned in MA."
"Hey there, mentally fragile, isolated, lonely kid. You want your human need for belonging to be satisfied? Well, shit... what you need is a good counselor and maybe some antidepressants, but instead, how about you join this totally fake terrorist cell composed of older, persuasive undercover FBI agents who will make you feel valued and important and feed on your loneliness and fragility to brainwash you into planting fake bombs for them so they can "bust" you and send you to jail for the rest of your life while they receive public funding and accolades for stopping terrorism. Sound cool?"
Helicopter nearby.
So, we have
1. Martial Law from Providence to Boston (at least)
2. A fugitive potentially on his way to NYC, where they're always half a breath away from martial law anyway.
3. An entire nation glued to the news feed, just shy of mass panic.
Without making statements about the appropriateness of this response from law enforcement and the media (honestly I can't imagine them doing anything less), I wonder how this reaction could be anything but an advertisement for this kind of despicable behavior to people who might be considering it. If 2 or 3 dudes can cause this much damage to daily life for so many people, with only small homemade bombs, then I imagine the temptation to follow suit would be pretty high.
What time did this lockdown start, Twid? Are most people at home or are they stuck at work, school, the store, etc.?
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 04:56:06 PM
What time did this lockdown start, Twid? Are most people at home or are they stuck at work, school, the store, etc.?
The MBTA did not start up today. Everyone is at home. You hear an occasional car, but, and there's a garbage truck outside, but pics of Boston show it as empty.
My school called and said that it was closed. My class would have started at 8:30.
Friends in Medford are confirming that they've lost power.
The first shooting was just after midnight. The MBTA doesn't start until 6:00 or so. They started by locking down Watertown, and then that spread to Cambridge, Somerville, and Allston. Then it was all of Boston.
Trains start up a little earlier. I think that the first train I can catch is at 5:15. But either way, still ample time to freeze the whole metropolitan area while it slept. Though I don't imagine there was a lot of sleeping last night. I was up until 3 ish at any rate.
I think when they shot the older brother, they went through his pockets, found his ID, and immediately went Police State on the neighborhood.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 05:15:27 PM
I think when they shot the older brother, they went through his pockets, found his ID, and immediately went Police State on the neighborhood.
Sounds right.
I do actually want to go outside and go to work.
*shudders*
I hope this doesn't go for says with people running out of food and stuff.
I saw the guy's uncle on TV. He's pissed.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
Friends in Medford are confirming that they've lost power.
Wait, what? Why?
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 05:24:46 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
Friends in Medford are confirming that they've lost power.
Wait, what? Why?
Not sure yet http://medford.patch.com/articles/power-outage-hits-medford
The fuck? That's pretty random.
So, the guy kid (FFS, he's only 19) probably got away. I have no idea when this will resolve. I've got a dontchewcords gig tonight! Plus, the Frost Heaves bassist is getting married on Sunday, with the bachelor party tomorrow night.
THANKS A LOT, AMERICA!
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
*shudders*
I hope this doesn't go for says with people running out of food and stuff.
I saw the guy's uncle on TV. He's pissed.
Just seen that myself. Seems on the level. I hope that guy's OK because I've got a bad feeling about his future over the next few years.
Yeah, REALLY random. Don't know if it's related.
Watching here too http://announcements.tufts.edu/item/?id=1133
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 05:28:28 PM
So, the guy kid (FFS, he's only 19) probably got away. I have no idea when this will resolve. I've got a dontchewcords gig tonight! Plus, the Frost Heaves bassist is getting married on Sunday, with the bachelor party tomorrow night.
THANKS A LOT, AMERICA!
Tell him and the missus to be I say congrats.
Also, I've logged back into twitter for the first time in a longtime, so I can get updates from BPD, Somerville PD, and MBTA.
THough, I think the helicopter fecking off would be my first indicator. The lockdown in Somerville is non-mandatory, but the city is requesting that everyone stay put.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 19, 2013, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
*shudders*
I hope this doesn't go for says with people running out of food and stuff.
I saw the guy's uncle on TV. He's pissed.
Just seen that myself. Seems on the level. I hope that guy's OK because I've got a bad feeling about his future over the next few years.
Even FOX is saying it's not the country.
They're yammering about Muslims and training camps, though. :x :x :x
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 05:32:38 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 19, 2013, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
*shudders*
I hope this doesn't go for says with people running out of food and stuff.
I saw the guy's uncle on TV. He's pissed.
Just seen that myself. Seems on the level. I hope that guy's OK because I've got a bad feeling about his future over the next few years.
Even FOX is saying it's not the country.
They're yammering about Muslims and training camps, though. :x :x :x
Of course they are.
So, were the two attempting to plant bombs on MIT Campus last night?
I'm assuming a scenario where they're picking a likely spot, the security guy stumbles upon them, they shoot him to try and keep it all secret but of course someone heard the shots...
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 05:36:06 PM
So, were the two attempting to plant bombs on MIT Campus last night?
I'm assuming a scenario where they're picking a likely spot, the security guy stumbles upon them, they shoot him to try and keep it all secret but of course someone heard the shots...
That sounds like it could be what was going on.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 05:36:06 PM
So, were the two attempting to plant bombs on MIT Campus last night?
I'm assuming a scenario where they're picking a likely spot, the security guy stumbles upon them, they shoot him to try and keep it all secret but of course someone heard the shots...
That sounds like it could be what was going on.
That, or he was responding to the guy who got carjacked and robbed.
I think they tried to rob a 7-11, and the MIT cop was there. They then carjacked someone (let them go), and then got chased down in Watertown.
It's really hard to get all the info straight.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
I think they tried to rob a 7-11, and the MIT cop was there. They then carjacked someone (let them go), and then got chased down in Watertown.
Ah, well that was stupid then.
I'm also hearing that he may have run over his dead/dying brother while fleeing the scene.. awkward.
They're apparently doing a controlled explosion something or other in Cambridge, but the focus is still Watertown. :?
Eve! What's going on, chica?
Hi Eve!
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:11:30 PM
I'm also hearing that he may have run over his dead/dying brother while fleeing the scene.. awkward.
They're apparently doing a controlled explosion something or other in Cambridge, but the focus is still Watertown. :?
Hi Eve! :) :) :)
I heard they're trying to take him alive because they have a lot of questions.
Good luck to them. I expect he'll be ventilated like the Barrows.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 06:12:52 PM
Eve! What's going on, chica?
Oh you know, just stuck at home in Brighton. Trying not to focus on the fact that this unanticipated day off completely ruins the overtime I was clocking in by working until 5:20am on Monday night/Tuesday morning (store inventory, which turned out to very conveniently keep me away from the finish line), because, you know, bigger picture.
How's your Friday, Alphapants?
Hello darlings! Your names have all changed! Please identify. :oops:
Working from home. Well not working at home, but logged in.
I'm Ambassador Klok KAOS.
Check out my outlandish website!
HII EEEVE!
This is EoC.
Quote from: Cain on April 19, 2013, 06:20:11 PM
I'm Ambassador Klok KAOS.
Check out my outlandish website!
:lol:
This is Twid.
So Nate Bell's a real douche.
Yep. I'm cowering, wishing I had a gun.
:lulz: AKK parading as Cain would be quite a sight. And probably too transparent to be as funny as I'm imagining.
HAPPY BELATED BDOO, EoC! All the cake for you, etc.
Twidders, I'm loving the name change.
Anna Mae Bollocks.
Gracias :)
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:25:24 PM
:lulz: AKK parading as Cain would be quite a sight. And probably too transparent to be as funny as I'm imagining.
HAPPY BELATED BDOO, EoC! All the cake for you, etc.
Twidders, I'm loving the name change.
I'll go back to Twid at some point, but I thought it was pretty funny too. Prior to this, I was Pippa Twiddleton. I just added a Viking helmet to that avatar, lol
My avvie here never changes. Schlitzee is FOREVER. :lol:
Apparently "they" (I wasn't paying enough attention; presumably BPD) just tweeted that 60% of the search is done. I'm wondering what that means for the possibilityprobability of this search being 100% done with no suspect accounted for.
My avatar remains the same as long as it continues to be accurate. Glad to see I've maintained my reign as Lesbian Queen!
I heard 70%, but I think they're just talking about Watertown?
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:34:30 PM
My avatar remains the same as long as it continues to be accurate. Glad to see I've maintained my reign as Lesbian Queen!
ALL HAIL!
Tee hee (http://www.happyplace.com/23282/man-being-interviewed-about-boston-bombers-forgot-to-hide-his-huge-pink-penis-shaped-water-bottle). (nsfw)
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:38:51 PM
Tee hee (http://www.happyplace.com/23282/man-being-interviewed-about-boston-bombers-forgot-to-hide-his-huge-pink-penis-shaped-water-bottle). (nsfw)
:spittake:
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
Here, let me get that for you.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/08/do_white_people_really_come_from_the_caucasus.html
On one hand, the whole white race / Caucasus (because that's where Eden was, and Whites came first,
duh) is based on the same stupid skull pseudoscience that gave us Mongoloids.
But this is what it takes to make that news? Really?
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:38:51 PM
Tee hee (http://www.happyplace.com/23282/man-being-interviewed-about-boston-bombers-forgot-to-hide-his-huge-pink-penis-shaped-water-bottle). (nsfw)
:lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on April 19, 2013, 06:45:30 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 01:58:11 PM
Oh, and my favorite Facebook comment of the day so far:
"But they're white! Muslims aren't white."
Here, let me get that for you.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/08/do_white_people_really_come_from_the_caucasus.html
On one hand, the whole white race / Caucasus (because that's where Eden was, and Whites came first, duh) is based on the same stupid skull pseudoscience that gave us Mongoloids.
But this is what it takes to make that news? Really?
Well, you know,
Slate.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 19, 2013, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
*shudders*
I hope this doesn't go for says with people running out of food and stuff.
I saw the guy's uncle on TV. He's pissed.
Just seen that myself. Seems on the level. I hope that guy's OK because I've got a bad feeling about his future over the next few years.
Yea, I was watching watch. Feel wicked bad for the guy. I know firsthand not wanting to have contact with extended family for one reason or another. But then there's that one reporting OVER and OVER again "So can you tell me how YOU feel about America?" JFC shut up. "Do you know if they had training?" over and over after he already said no. Poor guy.
On another note, apparently they locked down the post office and social security office up here (30-40 min. north of Boston). Mail man told me they were in the PO's bomb shelter for a while and the SS office was still on lockdown, though they let him in with the mail. Wonder if someone made threat against a Federal Building or if they're just been EXTRA safe, since he said that was the first time that happened in the 26 years he's been there.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 06:43:07 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:38:51 PM
Tee hee (http://www.happyplace.com/23282/man-being-interviewed-about-boston-bombers-forgot-to-hide-his-huge-pink-penis-shaped-water-bottle). (nsfw)
:spittake:
OOOOOOOH, that's going on FACEBOOK! :lulz:
Seen on FB:
"..This week is so bad that an Elvis-impersonating conspiracy theorist sent poison to Obama and that's like the tenth biggest story."
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 06:54:18 PM
Seen on FB:
"..This week is so bad that an Elvis-impersonating conspiracy theorist sent poison to Obama and that's like the tenth biggest story."
:horrormirth:
So, has this slowed back down again to a "wait and see"?
The kid got away, didn't he? And the police military are too bashful to admit it and lift the lockdown.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 04:53:29 PM
"Hey there, mentally fragile, isolated, lonely kid. You want your human need for belonging to be satisfied? Well, shit... what you need is a good counselor and maybe some antidepressants, but instead, how about you join this totally fake terrorist cell composed of older, persuasive undercover FBI agents who will make you feel valued and important and feed on your loneliness and fragility to brainwash you into planting fake bombs for them so they can "bust" you and send you to jail for the rest of your life while they receive public funding and accolades for stopping terrorism. Sound cool?"
But we'll never know, because neither kid will be around to talk about it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 07:18:49 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 04:53:29 PM
"Hey there, mentally fragile, isolated, lonely kid. You want your human need for belonging to be satisfied? Well, shit... what you need is a good counselor and maybe some antidepressants, but instead, how about you join this totally fake terrorist cell composed of older, persuasive undercover FBI agents who will make you feel valued and important and feed on your loneliness and fragility to brainwash you into planting fake bombs for them so they can "bust" you and send you to jail for the rest of your life while they receive public funding and accolades for stopping terrorism. Sound cool?"
But we'll never know, because neither kid will be around to talk about it.
Yeah, this.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 19, 2013, 07:16:52 PM
So, has this slowed back down again to a "wait and see"?
The kid got away, didn't he? And the police military are too bashful to admit it and lift the lockdown.
So... are we still on lockdown?
Yes.
The guy with his legs blown off says he got a good look. http://www.smh.com.au/world/i-looked-into-the-bombers-eyes-says-man-who-lost-both-legs-20130419-2i4fp.html
So, at least two people work as hard as they can to cause death and mayhem. They have unlimited time to plan, operate in a densely populated area, and successfully attack a huge sporting event. Death toll: 3, plus a security guard later and maybe more in the ongoing manhunt.
Meanwhile, out in the middle of Nowhere, TX, a tiny facility - I've heard nine employees - that warehouses fertilizer catches fire by accident, blows up and demolishes entire neighborhoods. Death toll: 12 and counting, they're still pulling bodies out of the wreckage.
And we've had more than one chemical plant explosion in the past decade, all with casualties and massive property damage to surrounding houses. How many fatal bombings in the US in the past 10 years?
So can someone please explain to me why I just heard a senator saying we need to tighten immigration to handle this problem? By comparing track records it seems like we'd be safer hiring wannabe tererorists to run our chemical plants.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on April 19, 2013, 07:23:44 PM
So, at least two people work as hard as they can to cause death and mayhem. They have unlimited time to plan, operate in a densely populated area, and successfully attack a huge sporting event. Death toll: 3, plus a security guard later and maybe more in the ongoing manhunt.
Meanwhile, out in the middle of Nowhere, TX, a tiny facility - I've heard nine employees - that warehouses fertilizer catches fire by accident, blows up and demolishes entire neighborhoods. Death toll: 12 and counting, they're still pulling bodies out of the wreckage.
And we've had more than one chemical plant explosion in the past decade, all with casualties and massive property damage to surrounding houses. How many fatal bombings in the US in the past 10 years?
So can someone please explain to me why I just heard a senator saying we need to tighten immigration to handle this problem? By comparing track records it seems like we'd be safer hiring wannabe tererorists to run our chemical plants.
Because immigrants are scary and don't act like we do and don't own politicians.
I work in a chemical plant that is disaster prone.
But we SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY to ensure that our DISASTERS only cost MONEY, and not LIVES, PROPERTY, or HORRIBLE CHEMICAL RELEASES INTO PEOPLES' LIVES.
And I have no fucking sympathy for those that don't. YOU DO NOT STORE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA NEXT TO NITRATES. ASSMONKEYS!
1 count of negligent homicide (at least) per dead person, per owner. No shit.
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
With Boston swarming with cops I would imagine that Dunkin Donuts will do good business.
Been watching the news at work and it seems to have degenerated to something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLiwTZiq_pg
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
I work in a chemical plant that is disaster prone.
But we SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY to ensure that our DISASTERS only cost MONEY, and not LIVES, PROPERTY, or HORRIBLE CHEMICAL RELEASES INTO PEOPLES' LIVES.
And I have no fucking sympathy for those that don't. YOU DO NOT STORE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA NEXT TO NITRATES. ASSMONKEYS!
1 count of negligent homicide (at least) per dead person, per owner. No shit.
In a perfect world*.
*Not Texas. Ever. :x
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
Hmmm.... There's a Dunks in walking distance.
I know that's stating the obvious since there's always a Dunks in walking distance.
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:57:48 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
Hmmm.... There's a Dunks in walking distance.
I know that's stating the obvious since there's always a Dunks in walking distance.
But are they letting people leave their houses? :horrormirth:
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than
six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:57:48 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
Hmmm.... There's a Dunks in walking distance.
I know that's stating the obvious since there's always a Dunks in walking distance.
But are they letting people leave their houses? :horrormirth:
Somerville's situation is :checks twitter: "Non-mandatory shelter in place request."
Workers are also encouraged to go home, whatever workers are out there. Taxis in Boston are back in service.
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six Dunkins within a mile of my apartment.
Sometimes they're in places you don't normally think of. The one nearest me is across from Tavern At The End Of The World.
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:57:48 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
Hmmm.... There's a Dunks in walking distance.
I know that's stating the obvious since there's always a Dunks in walking distance.
But are they letting people leave their houses? :horrormirth:
As far as I can tell, they're encouraging people to stay in "if you can" but it's not absolutely mandated.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 08:02:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six Dunkins within a mile of my apartment.
Sometimes they're in places you don't normally think of. The one nearest me is across from Tavern At The End Of The World.
Good call. Looks like there's one in St. E's, right down the street.
Coffee does sound kinda good....
My local Wal-Mart was just evacuated due to a bomb threat.
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
AFAIK there's mostly ALWAYS a Dunkins within walking distance from any point on the map...except Iowa
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
I was about to say...I almost felt
disappointment in Boston, letting Providence beat their Dunkin per capita quota.
-Suu
Can walk to at least 7 Dunkins from her house easily, and 2 more in desperation. Plus 2 Starbucks, a HoneyDew, and 3 places to get NYS hot weiners.
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
I work in a chemical plant that is disaster prone.
But we SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY to ensure that our DISASTERS only cost MONEY, and not LIVES, PROPERTY, or HORRIBLE CHEMICAL RELEASES INTO PEOPLES' LIVES.
And I have no fucking sympathy for those that don't. YOU DO NOT STORE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA NEXT TO NITRATES. ASSMONKEYS!
1 count of negligent homicide (at least) per dead person, per owner. No shit.
In a perfect world*.
*Not Texas. Ever. :x
This is the 21st century. Sequestering chemicals is a known science.
But, again, Texas. Anything post-1904 is hippie shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
I work in a chemical plant that is disaster prone.
But we SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY to ensure that our DISASTERS only cost MONEY, and not LIVES, PROPERTY, or HORRIBLE CHEMICAL RELEASES INTO PEOPLES' LIVES.
And I have no fucking sympathy for those that don't. YOU DO NOT STORE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA NEXT TO NITRATES. ASSMONKEYS!
1 count of negligent homicide (at least) per dead person, per owner. No shit.
In a perfect world*.
*Not Texas. Ever. :x
This is the 21st century. Sequestering chemicals is a known science.
But, again, Texas. Anything post-1904 is hippie shit.
SIENTISTZ IS ATHEIZTS
/
:redneck2:
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 08:30:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 08:28:20 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 19, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
I work in a chemical plant that is disaster prone.
But we SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY to ensure that our DISASTERS only cost MONEY, and not LIVES, PROPERTY, or HORRIBLE CHEMICAL RELEASES INTO PEOPLES' LIVES.
And I have no fucking sympathy for those that don't. YOU DO NOT STORE ANHYDROUS AMMONIA NEXT TO NITRATES. ASSMONKEYS!
1 count of negligent homicide (at least) per dead person, per owner. No shit.
In a perfect world*.
*Not Texas. Ever. :x
This is the 21st century. Sequestering chemicals is a known science.
But, again, Texas. Anything post-1904 is hippie shit.
SIENTISTZ IS ATHEIZTS
/
:redneck2:
MOZLEM ATHEIZTS
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:11:30 PM
I'm also hearing that he may have run over his dead/dying brother while fleeing the scene.. awkward.
They're apparently doing a controlled explosion something or other in Cambridge, but the focus is still Watertown. :?
HI EVE!
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 19, 2013, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
AFAIK there's mostly ALWAYS a Dunkins within walking distance from any point on the map...except Iowa
And Portland. I don't think there are any here at all.
NIGEL DARLING! :mrgreen:
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 19, 2013, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
AFAIK there's mostly ALWAYS a Dunkins within walking distance from any point on the map...except Iowa
And Portland. I don't think there are any here at all.
Not a one. I just checked. Nor in Vancouver, Beaverton or anywhere in the area.
Fort Collins only had one, and that one wasn't in a spot anyone was likely to walk to.
This Dunkin Donuts abundance is a phenomenon I never knew existed. It's just a shame it took something like this to open my eyes to it.
Yeah, they're all over the east coast. Can't find one in the PNW though, as far as I know.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on April 19, 2013, 09:46:17 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 19, 2013, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 19, 2013, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 08:00:36 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 19, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
I just received word that Bostonians will not starve, as Dunkin Donuts remain open in the city.
See? You're saved. Even I know it's not a life or death situation until Dunkin closes.
But I need the T to get to Dunkin! Oh transportation woes.
I stand corrected....
Actually I stand corrected, and/or am a lazy fuck. I just consulted Google maps and it would appear that there are no less than six eight Dunkins within one mile of my apartment.
AFAIK there's mostly ALWAYS a Dunkins within walking distance from any point on the map...except Iowa
And Portland. I don't think there are any here at all.
Not a one. I just checked. Nor in Vancouver, Beaverton or anywhere in the area.
Fort Collins only had one, and that one wasn't in a spot anyone was likely to walk to.
This Dunkin Donuts abundance is a phenomenon I never knew existed. It's just a shame it took something like this to open my eyes to it.
:horrormirth:
The last meal of my week in NYC 1.5 years ago was six Dunkin donuts at JFK airport. It was effin' delicious and probably shortened my life by a few weeks.
Quote from: Balls Wellington on April 19, 2013, 10:31:03 PM
Yeah, they're all over the east coast. Can't find one in the PNW though, as far as I know.
We used to have 'em. They just failed miserably here.
This wikileaked US embassy memo (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/65802) from 2006 offers a fascinating and thorough (but I don't know how trustworthy) overview of the Chechnya situation. Quite long, though.
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:25:24 PM
:lulz: AKK parading as Cain would be quite a sight. And probably too transparent to be as funny as I'm imagining.
HAPPY BELATED BDOO, EoC! All the cake for you, etc.
Twidders, I'm loving the name change.
:p Thanks Eve!
Lockdown over, MBTA back in service. If I left for work, I would get there at 7:30. If I head to the packie, I'll get there at 6:40.
Hmmm.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:33:42 PM
Lockdown over, MBTA back in service. If I left for work, I would get there at 7:30. If I head to the packie, I'll get there at 6:40.
Hmmm.
The day is a wash and there's been a lot of stress going around.
Packie.
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:19:21 PM
Hello darlings! Your names have all changed! Please identify. :oops:
I'm still me!
;)
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 11:38:24 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:19:21 PM
Hello darlings! Your names have all changed! Please identify. :oops:
I'm still me!
;)
requesting consent for a glomping?
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 11:42:54 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 19, 2013, 11:38:24 PM
Quote from: Eve on April 19, 2013, 06:19:21 PM
Hello darlings! Your names have all changed! Please identify. :oops:
I'm still me!
;)
requesting consent for a glomping?
I had to google that. Splendid word!
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:33:42 PM
Lockdown over, MBTA back in service. If I left for work, I would get there at 7:30. If I head to the packie, I'll get there at 6:40.
Hmmm.
The day is a wash and there's been a lot of stress going around.
Packie.
Yeah, I'm not allowed to work past 7 pm anyway.
Btw, I'm back from the packie.
DRINKING! Drinking will help with this! :horrormirth:
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on April 19, 2013, 11:54:18 PM
DRINKING! Drinking will help with this! :horrormirth:
Well, maybe if Tsarnaev had a few too many vodkas and dropped the ball.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:33:42 PM
Lockdown over, MBTA back in service. If I left for work, I would get there at 7:30. If I head to the packie, I'll get there at 6:40.
Hmmm.
The day is a wash and there's been a lot of stress going around.
Packie.
Yeah, I'm not allowed to work past 7 pm anyway.
Btw, I'm back from the packie.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 11:58:26 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:53:45 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 19, 2013, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 19, 2013, 11:33:42 PM
Lockdown over, MBTA back in service. If I left for work, I would get there at 7:30. If I head to the packie, I'll get there at 6:40.
Hmmm.
The day is a wash and there's been a lot of stress going around.
Packie.
Yeah, I'm not allowed to work past 7 pm anyway.
Btw, I'm back from the packie.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Boston lifts martial law. Time to buy beer.
Back in action in Watertown!
Also: http://www.gofundme.com/BucksforBauman
They're raising money for the poor guy who got his legs blown off, and his employer, Costco, is matching it buck for buck.
The second guy is cornered in a building.
http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/18/search-for-marathon-bombing-suspect-locks-down-watertown-surrounding-communities/UAbtwLVGLwBE5VI7BUyQuL/story.html
I think he's dead already https://twitter.com/NewsBreaker/status/325388054292471808/photo/1
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 12:17:26 AM
Back in action in Watertown!
Also: http://www.gofundme.com/BucksforBauman
They're raising money for the poor guy who got his legs blown off, and his employer, Costco, is matching it buck for buck.
That's sweet...also Costco, once again, showing off their awesomeness.
It's not him in the boat. Supposedly they have him surrounded though. Less than three miles from my apartment!
They think he may be strapped with explosives, but it sounds like they have him cornered.
Quote from: Eve on April 20, 2013, 12:46:53 AM
It's not him in the boat. Supposedly they have him surrounded though. Less than three miles from my apartment!
:eek:
Don't worry, I'm staying in and doubt the activity will head this way. The stay-inside order lifted just long enough for me to run over to my friend's place and pick up more greenery so, you know.. I'm set.
Quote from: Eve on April 20, 2013, 01:01:49 AM
Don't worry, I'm staying in and doubt the activity will head this way. The stay-inside order lifted just long enough for me to run over to my friend's place and pick up more greenery so, you know.. I'm set.
:HUGS AN EVE:
http://www.ydr.com/nation-world/ci_23059137/listen-live-boston-police-scanner
I want him alive. I want him to see what he's done and be show the full extent of what the United States is capable of.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 01:14:22 AM
I want him alive. I want him to see what he's done and be show the full extent of what the United States is capable of.
Why? Who cares? Either he gets killed or he gets jammed in a hole for the next 100 years. Makes no difference, he's out of the bombing game.
My money's on killed.
I'd like to hear HIS fucked up reason for all this, though.
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Yeah. True. :sad:
Quote from: stelz on April 20, 2013, 01:18:52 AM
My money's on killed.
I'd like to hear HIS fucked up reason for all this, though.
That's kind of my curiosity. That and knowing if there's anyone else, just in case.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Several cities.
Watertown isn't in Boston. Neither is Somerville or Cambridge.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
The city was never under martial law. Some stores were open, people were at work, and they were suggested to stay off the roads. No one was arrested or told they could not be outside, they were just told it was a bad idea.
Though point taken.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
The city was never under martial law. Some stores were open, people were at work, and they were suggested to stay off the roads. No one was arrested or told they could not be outside, they were just told it was a bad idea.
I didn't say it was martial law.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:27:20 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
The city was never under martial law. Some stores were open, people were at work, and they were suggested to stay off the roads. No one was arrested or told they could not be outside, they were just told it was a bad idea.
I didn't say it was martial law.
Effective martial law. It wasn't declared. It was optional but highly recommended.
Like I said earlier: Dunkin Donuts was open. :lulz: They have only closed Dunkins ONCE in the 10 years I've been here, and that was during Hurricane Sandy. That's the only reason why I knew I should take the storm seriously.
Down here it would be WalMart. :x
Most things shut down and there were armored police vehicles all over the place. Close enough to martial law for me. Too goddamn close.
He's wounded. Something about homeowners finding a trail of blood.
Heavily armed men are on the streets, all public transport has ceased, city and state officials have ordered people to "shelter in place", vehicle traffic is being entirely suspended in areas and public schools have been closed.
That's not how you hunt a killer. That is how you react to a CBRN attack.
Quote from: stelz on April 20, 2013, 01:32:08 AM
Down here it would be WalMart. :x
Most things shut down and there were armored police vehicles all over the place. Close enough to martial law for me. Too goddamn close.
I can't really defend their actions, other than that the guy was allegedly running through residential areas with explosives. Making people stay inside and not be stupid sounds like a good idea. The tanks...probably not so necessary, but they were sent up on Monday. Before people start freaking out, I would like to say that this is a result of being "crazy prepared," not so much as a way to usher in a New World Order.
Quote from: Eve on April 20, 2013, 01:35:59 AM
He's wounded. Something about homeowners finding a trail of blood.
What are you watching? I'm getting mixed reports between 2 stations and the scanner, here.
Channel 5 says he's alive and a team from Quantico (?!) are getting him out of the boat...which other people said he wasn't in. The reporting in this has been absolutely terrible. I really hate the media, which is why I'm trying to stay with local reports if anything.
I also have someone who lives IN WATERTOWN 2 blocks away giving us the best updates he can.
I'm flipping between the scanner, NECN, and CNN.
He's in custody per ABC 5.
Tsarnaev is in custody.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 01:45:34 AM
He's in custody per ABC 5.
NECN also. All I can hear are people cheering, cars honking. Someone's flashing their apartment lights on and off.
Alive.
Holy shit.
:cheers:
This shit isn't over yet.
No, not for a long time.
Did you hear something else?
No. Only that the suspect is going to a hospital where the transit police guy he shot last night is being treated. The city is going NUTS, people in Providence are honking now. I have a feeling New England as a whole is going ballistic.
I'm certainly in monkey mode. I'm not proud, but I am relieved. I hope this never happens in any of the rest of your cities. I hope it never happens in any cities. But, we know that's not going to be the case.
Quote from: BBCThe FBI interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 after a request from a foreign government, US law enforcements officials have confirmed. But agents closed the case after finding no reason for concern.
I'd be very interested to know which foreign government this was. I'm guessing Russia, but it need not be so.
Also +1 in the direction of Enki's theory. Hardly damning evidence, but suggestive.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Somebody won.
There is now precedent for "locking down" a major city.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Somebody won.
There is now precedent for "locking down" a major city.
And The People are screaming for it. They're just going to be dissapointed the police didn't string him up then and there. They want the city to be locked down because JESUS there's terrorists out there!
Watch every debate about this event fail to recognize the needless security, and peoples reaction to it.
As you know, I mostly believe the idea that the US state and international terrorism are opposed to each other is a laughable fiction. No matter what each "side" claims, their activities sustain each other. Symbiosis, not competition.
I'm also relieved. After they released the BOLO for CT and RI, I felt fucking paranoid walking around today. I thought a lot to myself, "If this happened here, could Providence handle it?" It always kept coming back to "No way." That's not a comforting thought.
This is going to cause a lot of issues. People are going to have conspiracy theories, people are going to have collective shitfits over the lockdown, and people are going to push more gun agendas, and probably pressure cooker agendas or some shit. But all I know is that for 3 hours yesterday, I stood with good people, people who dropped their issues for a short period of time to come together and protect and support a city in a time of crisis. I got sunburned and dehydrated waiting for a small group of pussies to show face, and I didn't care. It was a $20 roundtrip on the train well spent. I just wish that wouldn't be temporary.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Somebody won.
There is now precedent for "locking down" a major city.
Yeah. :cry: :cry: :cry:
But they took him alive and I admire that. And Boston's gonna rock all night long, even if it's mostly drunk monkeys screaming for all the wrong things.
The Future
(TM) will get here soon enough.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 02:14:45 AM
As you know, I mostly believe the idea that the US state and international terrorism are opposed to each other is a laughable fiction. No matter what each "side" claims, their activities sustain each other. Symbiosis, not competition.
Well, sure.
Who benefited from this?
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:16:41 AM
I'm also relieved. After they released the BOLO for CT and RI, I felt fucking paranoid walking around today. I thought a lot to myself, "If this happened here, could Providence handle it?" It always kept coming back to "No way." That's not a comforting thought.
This is going to cause a lot of issues. People are going to have conspiracy theories, people are going to have collective shitfits over the lockdown, and people are going to push more gun agendas, and probably pressure cooker agendas or some shit. But all I know is that for 3 hours yesterday, I stood with good people, people who dropped their issues for a short period of time to come together and protect and support a city in a time of crisis. I got sunburned and dehydrated waiting for a small group of pussies to show face, and I didn't care. It was a $20 roundtrip on the train well spent. I just wish that wouldn't be temporary.
The $20 was the cheap part of the fare, if you know what I mean.
Everyone except the people in Boston.
Obama's been angling for an indefinite detention law, has he not? The FBI and CIA and NSA and DIA and all the other three letter agencies get continued funding. America's oversea "allies" continue to get their cut of the pie, no matter their position on human rights. The racists and religious bigots get to cry "the Green Peril!" And on the other side, the Islamists* will claim, not unfairly, that they brought a major American city to a standstill by killing three people, that they bloodied the nose of the Great Satan yet again, that Americans are cowards and hypocrites who deserve to be punished.
*assuming this is the ideological inspiration
There's no winners here. And it is a very bad precedent. I was not happy at all with the ENTIRE METROPOLITAN AREA being shut down over Watertown.
I really am not, it was unreasonable. Extremely unreasonable.
Quote from: Alty on April 20, 2013, 02:14:19 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Somebody won.
There is now precedent for "locking down" a major city.
And The People are screaming for it. They're just going to be dissapointed the police didn't string him up then and there. They want the city to be locked down because JESUS there's terrorists out there!
Watch every debate about this event fail to recognize the needless security, and peoples reaction to it.
I can assure you that everyone I know that posts here, and other friends I have in the Boston area did not "scream" for it. It fucked up the region from New York to Boston as far as commuting and business is concerned. We may be mostly liberal up here, but we're fucking assholes, and there's a lot of us.
Yeah. The aftermath and wake of this will be awful.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:24:26 AM
Quote from: Alty on April 20, 2013, 02:14:19 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
The full extent of the United States seems to involve putting an entire city under effective martial law to catch two men.
It doesn't matter if he's caught alive or not. He's won.
Somebody won.
There is now precedent for "locking down" a major city.
And The People are screaming for it. They're just going to be dissapointed the police didn't string him up then and there. They want the city to be locked down because JESUS there's terrorists out there!
Watch every debate about this event fail to recognize the needless security, and peoples reaction to it.
I can assure you that everyone I know that posts here, and other friends I have in the Boston area did not "scream" for it. It fucked up the region from New York to Boston as far as commuting and business is concerned. We may be mostly liberal up here, but we're fucking assholes, and there's a lot of us.
:lol: I sensed you might take that that way. Sorry about that.
Not the people who were in the thick of it, the people who watched it on TV without registering the reality of it, the people on my FB page who "want answers" but live 5000 miles away.
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
Yeah, you've got one hell of a lawsuit sitting in front of you if they fire you.
Essentially, you will have been fired for not breaking the law.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 20, 2013, 02:25:08 AM
Yeah. The aftermath and wake of this will be awful.
My friend Ned who's a commuter from Prov lost 3 days of work this week because of his office or the trains being shut down. He works IN Copley Place. He is not getting paid for missing this time, and, because of the nature of his job, he got screamed at on the phone all day Wednesday and Thursday by clients, ALL in Massachusetts, about not being there to take their calls.
Welcome to New England. Now shut the fuck up, hard-on, I want my medium iced regular and a real fuckin' person on the phone.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 02:35:12 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
Yeah, you've got one hell of a lawsuit sitting in front of you if they fire you.
Essentially, you will have been fired for not breaking the law.
Non-mandatory.
BUT. No public transport.
We did get sued a couple of years ago, so I hope that works in my favor, and everyone's favor, because IT'S NOT FUCKING VACATION TIME.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
If they fire you over this, you get your ass to the Boston AG's office.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
If they fire you over this, you get your ass to the Boston AG's office.
That will be the second thing I do.
The first thing will to be to inform them where I'm going. I imagine it won't happen but it is in the back of my mind. I always work 7 hours on Friday. I've worked 13.5 hours this week. I'm required to do 20. I can go in the hole for 6 hours. I'm at negative 1.something hours BT. So, I'm a bit nervous like.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
If they fire you over this, you get your ass to the Boston AG's office.
THIS.
In Mass I kept them on speed dial to see what bosses could or couldn't legally do to me.
Texas AG doesn't do labor and we get fucked thousands of ways, but Mass rocks.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:43:26 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
If they fire you over this, you get your ass to the Boston AG's office.
That will be the second thing I do.
The first thing will to be to inform them where I'm going. I imagine it won't happen but it is in the back of my mind. I always work 7 hours on Friday. I've worked 13.5 hours this week. I'm required to do 20. I can go in the hole for 6 hours. I'm at negative 1.something hours BT. So, I'm a bit nervous like.
It's out of your hands, you cannot be the only person at your job to be affected by this. Ya boss is a wikkid dooshcanoe.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 03:00:58 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:43:26 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on April 20, 2013, 02:33:16 AM
There's a small chance I might get fired over this lock down. We don't get snow days and I didn't make my hours, and I'm out of benefit time. This was one hell of a snow day. I emailed my supervisor. The response I got was "we'll see what we can do on Monday, but no promises."
So fuck this guy and fuck the precedent.
If they fire you over this, you get your ass to the Boston AG's office.
That will be the second thing I do.
The first thing will to be to inform them where I'm going. I imagine it won't happen but it is in the back of my mind. I always work 7 hours on Friday. I've worked 13.5 hours this week. I'm required to do 20. I can go in the hole for 6 hours. I'm at negative 1.something hours BT. So, I'm a bit nervous like.
It's out of your hands, you cannot be the only person at your job to be affected by this. Ya boss is a wikkid dooshcanoe.
Actually, I'm quite fond of my boss, even though I make fun of him in my head frequently (he does deserve it from time to time). But that's not the thing. It's a big ass hospital, and our division is all grant money and wary about future funding. Snow days are out. This is the same as a snow day, except it was a Russian who killed a couple of people. So... how not at fault am I here? It's more bureaucratic wutness.
Meanwhile...some of the humor we've been missing this past week.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=277610072374543&set=a.238721116263439.58923.224585371010347&type=1&theater
This area is full of fuckin' cawksuckahs and I love ya'lls.
In retrospect, I have to say that these guys know how to make a chase interesting.
Throwing bombs out the window of the car at the cops, etc.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 03:11:08 AM
In retrospect, I have to say that these guys know how to make a chase interesting.
Throwing bombs out the window of the car at the cops, etc.
Yeah. Could get legendary.
I remember watching them get OJ when I was in 8th grade. :lulz:
Where was Captain Janks this time? :lol:
Ok, it's over. An immediately, the Friday gay bar said there's no cover, and my favorite DJ grabbed his gear, and I just had the best goddamn time. I love my Big,Gay Town.
Craig Murray, former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, has suggested this could be a Russian-backed operation (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/the-tsarnaev-conundrum/):
QuoteCui Bono? Putin. The alleged actions of the Tsarnaev brothers are a massive setback to the cause of Chechen nationalism. The Russian government have been trying for a decade to conflate the repression of Chechen nationalism with the western construct of "the global war on terror", with very limited diplomatic success. Now expect to hear continually about "Al Qaeda in the Southern Caucasus" in the next few years. Events in Boston have been a massive diplomatic coup for Putin.
He does admit this is not necessarily the case, but it is indeed possible, given the FSB's role in the 1999 "apartment bombings" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings) in Russia for them to be responsible for something similar in the USA.
The bombs and grenades were pretty simple, right? They wouldn't need any special instruction to make them?
No, they wouldn't. They're essentially shrapnel in a pressure cooker. Anyone with a couple of hundred dollars could do the same.
I'm still not sold on any particular theory yet, though I think that the idea that this is linked to Chechen nationalism is among the least likely of causes. I'm leaning towards pan-Islamism of the lone wolf variety, but that's not definite. I would definitely like to know more about how the Russian intelligence services (for I assume it was them who approached the FBI) came to tag the boys, as well as the full role of the FBI in the earlier assessment of the two.
No Miranda Rights for Bombing SuspectQuoteWASHINGTON -- A Justice Department official says the Boston Marathon bombing suspect will not be read his Miranda rights because the government is invoking a public safety exception.
That official and a second person briefed on the investigation says 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will be questioned by a special interrogation team for high-value suspects. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to disclose the information publicly.
The public safety exception permits law enforcement officials to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation of a suspect and allows the government to introduce the statement as evidence in court. The public safety exception is triggered when police officers have an objectively reasonable need to protect the police or the public from immediate danger.
Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/miranda-rights-boston-bombing-suspect_n_3120333.html)
And the people want MORE MORE MORE
OH YEAH YOU LIKE THAT, HUH? TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU LIKE IT!
WANT IT HARDER? HARDER? OH YEAH!
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(http://www.inc.com/uploaded_files/image/uncle-sam_pan_14223.jpg)
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 more. Yet he faced full due process under the law.
I can only assume that Tsarnaev is even more dangerous that McVeigh because of, uh, implied Muslimism.
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 06:34:55 PM
No Miranda Rights for Bombing Suspect
QuoteWASHINGTON -- A Justice Department official says the Boston Marathon bombing suspect will not be read his Miranda rights because the government is invoking a public safety exception.
That official and a second person briefed on the investigation says 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev will be questioned by a special interrogation team for high-value suspects. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to disclose the information publicly.
The public safety exception permits law enforcement officials to engage in a limited and focused unwarned interrogation of a suspect and allows the government to introduce the statement as evidence in court. The public safety exception is triggered when police officers have an objectively reasonable need to protect the police or the public from immediate danger.
Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/19/miranda-rights-boston-bombing-suspect_n_3120333.html)
And the people want MORE MORE MORE
OH YEAH YOU LIKE THAT, HUH? TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU LIKE IT!
WANT IT HARDER? HARDER? OH YEAH!
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(http://www.inc.com/uploaded_files/image/uncle-sam_pan_14223.jpg)
I really think this is a bullshit 'exception'. The potential for abuse is enormous and I'm not seeing a particular benefit. It makes my skin crawl.
Could the be working under the assumption there are more devices to be found?
"Special Interrogation team" just sounds like "most creative CIA guy we had handy". I can't think how else this could be justified. The eventual defence lawyer will have fun with this too I'm sure.
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
FEEL SAFE, CITIZEN.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
Me either. On one hand fuck this guy, and on the other hand shouldn't a nation's founding principles of consistent rule of law be in effect ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient?
Yeah maybe I will side with everyone on FB and go wit "fuck that guy" being more important .
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 07:03:46 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
Me either. On one hand fuck this guy, and on the other hand shouldn't a nation's founding principles of consistent rule of law be in effect ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient?
Yeah maybe I will side with everyone on FB and go wit "fuck that guy" being more important .
Laws are for protection of the people
Rules are rules, and anyone can see
We don't need no hairy-headed Chechens
Scaring decent folks like you and me.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 07:03:46 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
Me either. On one hand fuck this guy, and on the other hand shouldn't a nation's founding principles of consistent rule of law be in effect ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient?
Yeah maybe I will side with everyone on FB and go wit "fuck that guy" being more important .
Laws are for protection of the people
Rules are rules, and anyone can see
We don't need no hairy-headed Chechens
Scaring decent folks like you and me.
Something something Kunstler said about making sure the Attica guys got a fair trial even though he hated what they did, something something.
I would suggest that it's in times like this it's more important to see everything done according to correct procedure.
"Fuck this guy" becomes "Fuck those guys" easily. That's never a good road.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 07:03:46 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
Me either. On one hand fuck this guy, and on the other hand shouldn't a nation's founding principles of consistent rule of law be in effect ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient?
Yeah maybe I will side with everyone on FB and go wit "fuck that guy" being more important .
Laws are for protection of the people
Rules are rules, and anyone can see
We don't need no hairy-headed Chechens
Scaring decent folks like you and me.
Seriously.
But don't worry, I'm sure this won't become
standard procedure every time some 6th grader bites a Pop-Tart into the shape of an explosion, or anything. It isn't like there's a history of "exceptions" like this quickly becoming the rule.
I'm pretty sure there's a guy on my block with Chechen ancestry, and I would probably be remiss in my duties not to let the authorities know about him. Just in case.
Given every other domestic American terrorist has been read their Miranda rights, the only assumption is that this case is special because of the religious and/or ethnic background of Tsarnaev.
IOW, legalised discrimination. Yay!
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 07:14:58 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 20, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: V3X on April 20, 2013, 07:03:46 PM
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Not sure how I feel about this. :|
Me either. On one hand fuck this guy, and on the other hand shouldn't a nation's founding principles of consistent rule of law be in effect ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient?
Yeah maybe I will side with everyone on FB and go wit "fuck that guy" being more important .
Laws are for protection of the people
Rules are rules, and anyone can see
We don't need no hairy-headed Chechens
Scaring decent folks like you and me.
Seriously.
But don't worry, I'm sure this won't become standard procedure every time some 6th grader bites a Pop-Tart into the shape of an explosion, or anything. It isn't like there's a history of "exceptions" like this quickly becoming the rule.
I'm pretty sure there's a guy on my block with Chechen ancestry, and I would probably be remiss in my duties not to let the authorities know about him. Just in case.
I'em reasonably certain these things never, ever get out of hand. But I can't say that for sure, because I can't catch up with America. It's running too fast, and it's just this speck up the road, near the horizon. It's gone too far, and I can't even remember what it looks like anymore. Somewhere between rotary phones and ARPANET it started sprinting, and I am no gazelle.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 06:46:52 PM
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 more. Yet he faced full due process under the law.
I can only assume that Tsarnaev is even more dangerous that McVeigh because of, uh, implied Muslimism.
Yoinking. With attribution.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 20, 2013, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 06:46:52 PM
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 more. Yet he faced full due process under the law.
I can only assume that Tsarnaev is even more dangerous that McVeigh because of, uh, implied Muslimism.
Yoinking. With attribution.
As am I.
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 07:16:04 PM
Given every other domestic American terrorist has been read their Miranda rights, the only assumption is that this case is special because of the religious and/or ethnic background of Tsarnaev.
IOW, legalised discrimination. Yay!
Laws have not changed regarding such instances since McVeigh, have they? How were the Ft. Hood attacks approached?
This is the nice thing about Tucson. It's too hard to excited about The Cause and "direct action", here. It's too much work for the police to pull weird and "extraordinary" things that are becoming far too ordinary. No, we live in the darkness imposed by a merciless, omnipresent sun, and it has baked the evil out of us. We may be batshit crazy, but we're not sick.
We often wonder what in gibbering fuck possesses You People down there in the oxygen. It is a subject of discussion, and much bafflement.
Quote from: Suu on April 20, 2013, 07:31:00 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 20, 2013, 07:16:04 PM
Given every other domestic American terrorist has been read their Miranda rights, the only assumption is that this case is special because of the religious and/or ethnic background of Tsarnaev.
IOW, legalised discrimination. Yay!
Laws have not changed regarding such instances since McVeigh, have they? How were the Ft. Hood attacks approached?
As Nidal Hasan was a soldier and the attacks took place on a military base, he is subject to military law.
The public safety exception has existed since 1984 (appropriately enough), but the FBI issued an order in 2010 to "interpret broadly" the exception when dealing with terrorism cases.
Some might not remember directly, but it reminds me of certain ghost of the past:
hxxp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPQsew37FM5z-IhXZSSN2S29k6_FV-38h0nGf70cw5YdyBOp2U9w
Ill just say that dealing with brutality with exceptions to human rights leads to more brutality overall.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 20, 2013, 06:56:24 PM
Could the be working under the assumption there are more devices to be found?
"Special Interrogation team" just sounds like "most creative CIA guy we had handy". I can't think how else this could be justified. The eventual defence lawyer will have fun with this too I'm sure.
"Special Interrogation Team" is code for "trained torturers". Bet money.
http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/20/security-theater-martial-law-and-a-tale-that-trumps-every-cop-and-donut-joke-youve-ever-heard/
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 21, 2013, 12:47:23 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 20, 2013, 06:56:24 PM
Could the be working under the assumption there are more devices to be found?
"Special Interrogation team" just sounds like "most creative CIA guy we had handy". I can't think how else this could be justified. The eventual defence lawyer will have fun with this too I'm sure.
"Special Interrogation Team" is code for "trained torturers". Bet money.
I'm wondering if they're referring to the High-Value Interrogation Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Value_Interrogation_Group). If so, he's likely being interrogated while drugged up, and being deprived sleep too.
Hypothetically, if there was some friendly foreign intelligence or FBI sting operation gone wrong behind this, the first thing I'd try to do is make sure the guy dies resisting arrest, and if that fails, cook his brain with drugs and torture before he gets a chance to say anything publically.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 20, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Some might not remember directly, but it reminds me of certain ghost of the past:
hxxp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPQsew37FM5z-IhXZSSN2S29k6_FV-38h0nGf70cw5YdyBOp2U9w
Ill just say that dealing with brutality with exceptions to human rights leads to more brutality overall.
Like I told all my friends last night...we just lived a real life episode of 24.
Also, this happened in Watertown yesterday, it's starting to circulate on Facebook but I figured I would at least prove it's real. My friend's neighbor was out of milk, and they have little kids. Apparently someone tried to go on a milk run when shit started getting hairy, and this commonwealth copper told them no, but did the milk run for them.
People continue to impress me up here.
(http://i.imgur.com/epASLCE.jpg)
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on April 21, 2013, 01:57:43 AM
Hypothetically, if there was some friendly foreign intelligence or FBI sting operation gone wrong behind this, the first thing I'd try to do is make sure the guy dies resisting arrest, and if that fails, cook his brain with drugs and torture before he gets a chance to say anything publically.
Indeed.
The Underwear Bomber - which we know from statements by John Brennan was a case where US intelligence was well informed at every step of the process - had such treatment, to the point that he was being "interviewed" while under heavy sedation.
It was also involved in the case of Faisal Shahzad and Manssor Arbabsiar. In each case, the alleged was kept from seeing a judge for a period of days, and within that time period, a signed confession emerged. In the case of the former, there was the suspicious "protective custody" of his family in Pakistan which happened within that time period, and in the case of the latter, it seems he was denied cigarettes and food to obtain the confession.
Quote from: Suu on April 21, 2013, 03:17:57 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 20, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Some might not remember directly, but it reminds me of certain ghost of the past:
hxxp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPQsew37FM5z-IhXZSSN2S29k6_FV-38h0nGf70cw5YdyBOp2U9w
Ill just say that dealing with brutality with exceptions to human rights leads to more brutality overall.
Like I told all my friends last night...we just lived a real life episode of 24.
Also, this happened in Watertown yesterday, it's starting to circulate on Facebook but I figured I would at least prove it's real. My friend's neighbor was out of milk, and they have little kids. Apparently someone tried to go on a milk run when shit started getting hairy, and this commonwealth copper told them no, but did the milk run for them.
People continue to impress me up here.
(http://i.imgur.com/epASLCE.jpg)
That kinda needs a caption.
"Fuck Milk"
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1715856/clips/mshakes.jpg)
QuoteThe BBC's David Willis, outside the hospital, says the suspect is suffering gunshot wounds to the neck and leg and has lost a lot of blood, so it could be a while before investigators are able to talk to him.
Shot in the neck?
QuoteCBS News quoted investigators as saying that a wound to the neck may have been a suicide attempt.
May have been?
Apparently unable to communicate yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22232196
(http://i.imgur.com/bNW0OJB.png)
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 21, 2013, 08:28:39 AM
QuoteThe BBC's David Willis, outside the hospital, says the suspect is suffering gunshot wounds to the neck and leg and has lost a lot of blood, so it could be a while before investigators are able to talk to him.
Shot in the neck?
QuoteCBS News quoted investigators as saying that a wound to the neck may have been a suicide attempt.
May have been?
Apparently unable to communicate yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22232196
There were reports that he came in heavily injured yes.
You'd think they'd be able to say definitively if he'd been shot in the neck or not, that kind of thing does seem fairly cut and dry. But he is in fact in the hands of the High-Value Interrogation Group, and like all spook outfits everywhere, they hate giving out any kind of info at all.
Not to mention, they announced they were taking him to Mass General, a hospital that is currently treating a lot of his alleged victims. Security has got to be INSANE, there's no way the press is getting in there for a correct statement.
Quote from: V3X on April 21, 2013, 08:15:59 AM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1715856/clips/mshakes.jpg)
:lulz: :horrormirth:
OTOH, there's this (not mine, yoinked it):
(http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc322/fennario99/427963_143580682491115_1659225125_n.jpg)
Remedial common sense. I can't believe they let this be said on FOX.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/21/ex-cia-deputy-director-boston-bombing-more-like-columbine-than-al-qaeda/
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 21, 2013, 12:48:31 AM
http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/20/security-theater-martial-law-and-a-tale-that-trumps-every-cop-and-donut-joke-youve-ever-heard/
:lulz: That's great!
And this cop with the milk thing? Fuck him. Because you know what's better than a fucking cop bringing you milk? NOT BEING CONFINED TO YOUR HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE, and being able to get your own god damned groceries.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on April 21, 2013, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 21, 2013, 12:48:31 AM
http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/20/security-theater-martial-law-and-a-tale-that-trumps-every-cop-and-donut-joke-youve-ever-heard/
:lulz: That's great!
And this cop with the milk thing? Fuck him. Because you know what's better than a fucking cop bringing you milk? NOT BEING CONFINED TO YOUR HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE, and being able to get your own god damned groceries.
Yeah, he sounds like a nice guy, but that doesn't somehow make everything OK.
I'm reposting this here because my father deserves a wider audience:
Did you ever witness such a grandiose scale and magnificent display of collective incompetence as that which took place yesterday in the search and capture of the Marathon bomber in Watertown, Massachusetts? It does not make me sleep better at night.
To me, the so called authorities were nothing more than a back-thumping mob of trigger happy doughnut engorged buffoons apparently suffering from small penis syndrome, each trying to puff-up bigger than the next buffoon with a single mindset goal to waste as much ammo as possible. I am surprised they didn't accidentally kill more people - but that confirms my belief, that even that was not within their ability to successfully accomplish.
Then at the end they congratulated themselves in a macabre sort of manner for all that bungling and misadventure!
Lets look at this:
This was a nineteen year old kid, apparently the meanest and orneriest mofo the country has ever witnessed.
Perhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
He was hiding only several blocks away from where the biggest manhunt in the history of the USA was taking place.
He was eventually found and visually ID'd - by a US citizen who was checking a rip in his blood stained boat cover.
He was apparently half-dead before authorities engaged him in a flurry of gunfire and were then proudly able to collar this hombre.
Think about it, the perp was able to carry a bomb into the marathon, place and set it off, knock over a 7-Eleven, kill a baby-faced school cop, hijack a motorist and ride around with him for an hour or so, declare to the hijacked guy he was the marathon bomber, let the guy go free, outrun the cops in a running and raging shoot-out across a five mile stretch of North Boston, shoot his way out of being corralled in a cul-de-sac surrounded by trigger happy buffoons who were vigorously lighting up his brother, where he apparently sent one cop to intensive care, and escape in a Honda SUV.
I want to say amazing, but it is just not the right word to describe this five-hundred megaton cluster f**k.
ETA: You know...#shitmydadsays.
Quote from: Cuddlefish on April 21, 2013, 06:19:41 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 21, 2013, 12:48:31 AM
http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/20/security-theater-martial-law-and-a-tale-that-trumps-every-cop-and-donut-joke-youve-ever-heard/
:lulz: That's great!
And this cop with the milk thing? Fuck him. Because you know what's better than a fucking cop bringing you milk? NOT BEING CONFINED TO YOUR HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE, and being able to get your own god damned groceries.
No, it fixes nothing, but he didn't have to do that either.
we luvz master. he bring us foodz
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
I can see this now...next terrorist attack in New England = run out for milk and bread before possible lock down. At least we'll have comfort Dunkin Donuts will be open.
Because if Dunkin closes, the terrorists
win. Like this guy says:
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/lust-during-wartime
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
They actually shut it down several times and others started picking up the broadcast. THAT was kind of weird.
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
That's definitely my experience of cop-logic. It's kind of like human logic but back to front :lulz:
This whole thing did seem to pop off pretty quick too...
I mean, it went from a "routine" 7-11 robbery to "OMG it's THEM" pretty quickly. Perhaps they didn't have time to set up encrypted comms.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
Isn't some of their shit designed to channel hop automatically anyway? I think at one time they did that to make it harder to follow, and then pricier scanners came out that could get that, measure-countermeasure, etc. I quit keeping up with it. :|
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
There was an issue when people started posting maps and Google Earth pics on social media of the location of everything. I think the last thing they needed was for people to step in and try to "help".
Quote from: stelz on April 21, 2013, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
Isn't some of their shit designed to channel hop automatically anyway? I think at one time they did that to make it harder to follow, and then pricier scanners came out that could get that, measure-countermeasure, etc. I quit keeping up with it. :|
They were manually changing channels...
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 09:09:07 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 21, 2013, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
Isn't some of their shit designed to channel hop automatically anyway? I think at one time they did that to make it harder to follow, and then pricier scanners came out that could get that, measure-countermeasure, etc. I quit keeping up with it. :|
They were manually changing channels...
A lot of the salient bits were streamable on the WCBV website.
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:12:56 PM
This whole thing did seem to pop off pretty quick too...
I mean, it went from a "routine" 7-11 robbery to "OMG it's THEM" pretty quickly. Perhaps they didn't have time to set up encrypted comms.
Maybe not initially, sure. But 12 hours later?
Quote from: Suu on April 21, 2013, 09:03:39 PM
Quote from: Von Zwietracht on April 21, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 21, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2013, 07:48:17 PM
QuotePerhaps thousands of police authorities were outwitted by this doofus for an entire day.
Which raises a good question: why wasn't Boston PD's communications encrypted? Given they found him only a block outside the stop-and-search zone, it seems very likely he was listening in on their radio calls. You know, like most of the internet was.
Don't private scanner owners sometimes help law enforcement with intel? Maybe this was a situation where having it public was, in their mind, was in their best interest?
Well, by the way they were channel hopping like crazy, and then released statements directly telling people NOT to listen, I'd say they definitely didn't wan't people to "help with intel".
There was an issue when people started posting maps and Google Earth pics on social media of the location of everything. I think the last thing they needed was for people to step in and try to "help".
This was part of the rationale for releasing the pictures. Because so many innocent people were being fingered by the media and internet at large as potential suspects, there were very real fears that someone was going to get killed. The hope was releasing the pictures would prevent vigilante revenge attacks and more internet detectives to come up with outlandish theories.
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:06:21 AM
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
If the vibe I got from the Uncle they interviewed in Maryland means anything, there was a damn good reason why he was not keeping contact with that side of the family.
Quote from: Suu on April 22, 2013, 03:13:30 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:06:21 AM
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
If the vibe I got from the Uncle they interviewed in Maryland means anything, there was a damn good reason why he was not keeping contact with that side of the family.
Like seriously, the FBI needs to stop doing their entrapment hijinx to justify their own existance.
There's a guy on Facebook saying that the door to door searches in Watertown involved police confiscating everyone's guns. He said that he heard it "from a friend who saw it first hand."
My kneejerk response was, "That's bullshit. That would assume people in MA were actually allowed to own guns." But I refrained. I'm waiting to see if this goes conspiracy theorist batshit.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:17:51 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 22, 2013, 03:13:30 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:06:21 AM
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
If the vibe I got from the Uncle they interviewed in Maryland means anything, there was a damn good reason why he was not keeping contact with that side of the family.
Like seriously, the FBI needs to stop doing their entrapment hijinx to justify their own existance.
FUCKING *SHUDDERS*
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:06:21 AM
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
I wonder what the nature of this "Counselling" was. And indeed, if they knew that they were being "counselled" by the FBI.
That neck injury isn't looking more suspicious at all.
Slightly off topic while waiting for more info:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22244538
Shooting bomb threat on "a website" causes 20+ Dutch schools to be shut down.
By "website" I mean "4chan"
QuoteThe threat was posted on internet forum 4chan. In English, the writer states: "Tomorrow, I will shoot my Dutch teacher, and as many students as I can."
He or she goes on to say that they will be carrying a 9mm Colt Defender gun and a note "which will explain why I did it".
The threat was picked up by Swiss police during internet checks, Dutch media report.
Yup.
I dread to think of future conclusions made by law enforcement based around 4chan posts. I'm glad my elaborate Art theft is still OK to go ahead though.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 22, 2013, 03:06:21 AM
hxxp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/918059.html
Has this been covered in the discussion?
Supposedly Russia warned the FBI since 2011 about the radicalization of Tamerlán Tsarnaev... the FBI even INTERVIEWED several family members in 2011! And a family member says that the FBI counseled Tamerlan for 3 or 5 years.
I've been mentioning it, on and off.
I still want to know exactly how the FSB picked up on the brothers because, well, frankly I don't trust the FSB at all when it comes to the Chechen issue. And pinning the attack on Chechen Islamism is of huge benefit to the Russian government, as many Western countries have so far refused to treat Chechnya as part of the War on Terror.
But then, I don't trust the FBI either, and their general approach to alienated young Muslims is "approach them undercover and try to get them to take part in a bombing". So I don't know.
The mother has claimed the FBI fingered Tamerlane (http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3hp5YEN2) as a suspect on
Thursday:
QuoteTheir mother went so far on Sunday to claim that the FBI had contacted her elder son after the deadly bombs exploded at the marathon. If true it would be the first indication that the FBI considered him a suspect before Boston descended into violence on Thursday.
At FBI headquarters in Washington, spokesman Michael Kortan stood by the bureau's public statement of two days ago in which the bureau described a 2011 FBI interview of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Kortan said the 2011 interview was the only FBI contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The FBI statement from two days ago says that the FBI did not learn of the identity of Tamerlan and his brother until Friday after the gun battle in which Tamerlan was killed.
The mother's claim could not be independently confirmed, and she has made statements in the past that appeared to show a lack of full understanding of what occurred in Boston.
There's a lot of potential reasons for misunderstandings here, but I wanted this to be noted.
Moving away from the negative and on the positive just briefly...the Chicago Tribune just bought the ENTIRE Boston Globe lunch. They got some ridiculous amount of pizzas delivered suddenly with a short note from the Trib.
That's awesome.
And the Teamstahs took a cue from you guys: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2013/04/22/teamsters-local-25-westboro-baptist-church/
The Human Wall was asked nicely not to attend today, though they appreciated our offer. That union branch is local to the town, so they felt it would be more intimate.
Meanwhile, in America...
http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/48547675807/the-definitive-people-who-thought-chechnya-was-the
I have NO words. None.
Quote from: Suu on April 22, 2013, 07:37:33 PM
Meanwhile, in America...
http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/48547675807/the-definitive-people-who-thought-chechnya-was-the
I have NO words. None.
:enough:
For my next trick: telling everyone Chechnya borders Georgia.
hey, it's NOT wrong. :evil:
Tell them that the Czech Republic is in TEXAS. Jak se máš, y'all. :lulz:
https://www.google.com/search?q=czech+texas&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Sol1UfCHIarY2AXyyIDACA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=599
Boston guy charged with using a weapons of mass destruction
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22257451
Something apparently going on in Canada (Everything fine)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22258191
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 22, 2013, 08:31:25 PM
Something apparently going on in Canada (Everything fine)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22258191
DOIN' IT WRONG.
The Canadians, as always, manage to fuck things up, arresting people BEFORE they blow shit up. This, of course, robs me and the rest of the USA of our precious media circus/gore porn/terror porn, and that is yet ANOTHER reason to support taking the 2nd armored division up North and teaching those crap-headed, jackass-braying, smart alec, frog-leg-eating, beer-swilling, playing football WRONG Canadians a fucking thing or two.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/16891602-canada-thwarts-plot-to-blow-up-us-canada-rail-line?lite
QuoteThe men were receiving support from al-Qaeda elements in Iran, according to officials.
AIN'T WE GOT FUN?
Actual details
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22258191
QuoteCanada's authorities say they have arrested and charged two people with conspiring to carry out an "al-Qaeda inspired" attack on a passenger train.
At a news conference, the authorities said the suspects Chiheb Esseghaier, 30, and Raed Jaser, 35, were arrested in Montreal and Toronto on Monday.
The attacked was allegedly planned on a VIA passenger train in the greater Toronto area. It was not clear when.
The two men will now appear in court on Tuesday for a bail hearing.
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) said the surveillance operation leading to the arrests of the two suspects was "a result of extensive collaborative efforts".
They said the two men were not Canadian citizens and were supported by "al-Qaeda elements in Iran" without providing further details.
At the same time, the RCMP said they believed the alleged plan to attack was in the planning stage and "there was no imminent threat to the general public".
Such as they are.
The bold is why I fucking love Canada. I just imagine everything is still done on horseback somewhere and the world seems a little nicer.
Al-Qaeda elements in Iran, eh?
You mean these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah#International_sponsorship)?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite
When I was a kid, a "weapon of mass destruction" was a nuke, gas, or germs.
Now it has been expanded to include kitchen impliments.
heh, Mounties are scary. They are federal police, and the generally drive around in cars, although they are still mounted sometimes up in Nunavut, in areas where there aren't any roads.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite
When I was a kid, a "weapon of mass destruction" was a nuke, gas, or germs.
Now it has been expanded to include kitchen impliments.
This has the added bonus of turning many households into potential strongholds of terrorist supplies.
Bet something like that turns up on a warrant within the year.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite
When I was a kid, a "weapon of mass destruction" was a nuke, gas, or germs.
Now it has been expanded to include kitchen impliments.
I know, right?
Shit, I don't even consider the sarin attacks in Tokyo to be proper WMD attacks, they only get in on the technicality of using a nerve agent.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Sarin_test_rabbit.jpg/476px-Sarin_test_rabbit.jpg)
Leak detector for the Sarin nerve agent that we, the USA, certainly doesn't have, at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal sarin manufacturing facility that we don't have.
Kind of a modern canary in a cage. Scarily believable.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 22, 2013, 09:54:57 PM
Kind of a modern canary in a cage. Scarily believable.
I expect that pic is from the 60s/70s.
I also like how he's blundering down between cannisters with a bulky cage in his hands.
I guess it's marginally better than just having it by the neck and waiting for it to stop kicking.
Marginally.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 22, 2013, 10:00:26 PM
I guess it's marginally better than just having it by the neck and waiting for it to stop kicking.
Marginally.
And there's nothing like sticking your protective gloves through chickenwire when you pick heavy things up in a potentially lethal atmosphere.
Oh yeah. That's a nice way to age you prematurely.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:47:08 PM
Leak detector for the Sarin nerve agent that we, the USA, certainly doesn't have, at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal sarin manufacturing facility that we don't have.
It's a
research facility for
defensive purposes.
But seriously, this whole WMD for terrorism charges thing has been bugging me for a while now. It's Orwellian as shit. CBRN or GTFO.
Quote from: Cain on April 22, 2013, 10:33:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:47:08 PM
Leak detector for the Sarin nerve agent that we, the USA, certainly doesn't have, at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal sarin manufacturing facility that we don't have.
It's a research facility for defensive purposes.
But seriously, this whole WMD for terrorism charges thing has been bugging me for a while now. It's Orwellian as shit. CBRN or GTFO.
Yep. It's fucking pathetic.
Looks like this little exploit (http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2013/04/22/lindsey-graham-fbi-didn-know-tsarnaev-was-russia-because-his-name-was-misspelled/7ioFExA9lbtAc8v1c7cvBM/story.html) in the programming language of the National Security State has still not received a fix:
Quote"He went over to Russia, but apparently, when he got on the Aeroflot plane, they misspelled his name," Graham, a South Carolina Republican said on Fox television this morning. "So it never went into the system that he actually went to Russia."
Graham, a member of the Armed Services Committee, said in answer to a follow-up question that he did not know whether Tsarnaev, the 26-year-old terrorist suspect who died early Friday following a shootout with law enforcement, had misspelled his name on purpose.
The FBI "said Aeroflot gave us the information" that Tsarnaev had traveled there, Graham said, though he did not specify when that occurred.
May not mean anything, in the grander scheme of things, but it just shows this problem, which has been going on for decades, has
still not been solved.
Oh, and the White House has confirmed the trial will be a civilian and not military one. Rejoice, for your junta is still an optional one.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 22, 2013, 09:44:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/17860373-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-charged-with-using-weapon-of-mass-destruction?lite
When I was a kid, a "weapon of mass destruction" was a nuke, gas, or germs.
Now it has been expanded to include kitchen impliments.
This has the added bonus of turning many households into potential strongholds of terrorist supplies.
Bet something like that turns up on a warrant within the year.
I can make Great War-level mustard gas out of what's under my sink right now. Just sayin'.
Quote from: Cain on April 22, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
The mother has claimed the FBI fingered Tamerlane (http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3hp5YEN2) as a suspect on Thursday:
QuoteTheir mother went so far on Sunday to claim that the FBI had contacted her elder son after the deadly bombs exploded at the marathon. If true it would be the first indication that the FBI considered him a suspect before Boston descended into violence on Thursday.
At FBI headquarters in Washington, spokesman Michael Kortan stood by the bureau's public statement of two days ago in which the bureau described a 2011 FBI interview of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Kortan said the 2011 interview was the only FBI contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The FBI statement from two days ago says that the FBI did not learn of the identity of Tamerlan and his brother until Friday after the gun battle in which Tamerlan was killed.
The mother's claim could not be independently confirmed, and she has made statements in the past that appeared to show a lack of full understanding of what occurred in Boston.
There's a lot of potential reasons for misunderstandings here, but I wanted this to be noted.
very very interesting.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/16891602-canada-thwarts-plot-to-blow-up-us-canada-rail-line?lite
QuoteThe men were receiving support from al-Qaeda elements in Iran, according to officials.
AIN'T WE GOT FUN?
Wow, will you look at that. Actual would-be terrorists, concocting a plot entirely without FBI assistance, thwarted by law enforcement before anyone got hurt.
It's a mad world.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 01:31:46 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 22, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/22/16891602-canada-thwarts-plot-to-blow-up-us-canada-rail-line?lite
QuoteThe men were receiving support from al-Qaeda elements in Iran, according to officials.
AIN'T WE GOT FUN?
Wow, will you look at that. Actual would-be terrorists, concocting a plot entirely without FBI assistance, thwarted by law enforcement before anyone got hurt.
It's a mad world.
Dogs and cats will be fucking in the streets for weeks.
Well, this puts a different spin on Uncle Ruslan (http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/22/was-boston-bombers-uncle-ruslan-with-the-cia/):
QuoteThe uncle of the two men who set off bombs at the Boston Marathon, who struck the only grace note in an otherwise horrific week, worked as a "consultant" for the Agency for International Development (USAID) a U.S. Government Agency often used for cover by agents of the CIA, in the former Soviet Republic of Kazakhstan during the "Wild West" days of the early 1990's, when anything that wasn't nailed down in that country was up for grabs.
QuoteBut the biggest red flag, the one pertinent to murder in Boston, was Oligarch Kukibayev's use of money laundered through a network of offshore companies to attempt to hide his purchase of Prince Andrew's crib, which emerged during a legal battle between another billionaire Kazakh oligarch, Mukhtar Ablyazov, and BTA Bank, from which Kazakhstan claims Ablyazov embezzled a very cool $6 billion dollars.
And this is where "Uncle Ruslan" Tsarni comes in.
The purchase of the Prince's estate was put together, according to prosecutors in Italy and Switzerland, by a group of oil executives who comprise "a network of personal and business relationships" allegedly used for "international corruption," reported The London Telegraph.
Tsarni, called "a US lawyer who has had dealings in Kazakh business affairs," by the Sunday Times, clearly appears to be a member of that network.
The Sunday Times reported, "A statement by Ruslan Zaindi Tsarni was given in the High Court in December, claiming that Kulibayev bought Sunninghill and properties in Mayfair with $96 million derived from a complex series of deals intended to disguise money laundering."
"Tsarni alleged that the money came from the takeover of a western company, which had been used as a front to obtain oil contracts from the Kazakh state."
Illuminatus! II: The sequel nobody actually wanted.
And, as Craig Murray points out, either the FBI or the FSB or both are being uncharacteristically unparanoid in how they treated the elder brother. So, in 2010, the FSB have decided that Tamerlane is enough of a dangerous Islamist radical to warn the Americans about him - despite the bad blood between the USA and Russia on the Chechen issue, Georgia and a whole host of other things relating to that region (namely oil and gas pipelines).
The FBI look him over in 2011 and declare him all clean. Strange, given he was apparently radicalised online.
Then, in 2012, the Russian government apparently let him back into the country to allegedly attend a training camp with Chechen insurgents.
Seems a little...odd.
Weird about the uncle. Wired covering the beginings of the aftermath:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/cult-of-tsarnaev/
QuoteBarely two days after cops apprehended Suspect #2 in the Boston Marathon bombings, supporters of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev are rallying online. A flood of Twitter, Instagram and web postings are mirroring the crowdsourced effort to find the bomb culprit, except this time they're out to exonerate him. Analysts of online extremism are watching closely to see if Tsarnaev becomes a cult figure.
The #freejahar hashtag on Twitter is about what you'd expect after the most highly publicized manhunt in the country. It's a mix of conspiracy theories, sympathy for Tsarnaev and skepticism of the official narrative surrounding the 19-year-old's arrest. Much of it is consumed with an effort to crowdsource Tsarnaev's exoneration, pointing to photos from the scene and speculating about them — similar to what took place on 4chan and Reddit to hunt the bombing perpetrators.
"He's fucking innocent. If he were 'guilty', it wouldn't take this long to fucking prove it, and there would actually be evidence," says one supporter, although the government has yet to charge the incapacitated, hospitalized Tsarnaev with a crime.
@J_Tsarsupport posted a photo (warning: graphic) claiming "proof that half the 'victims' are fake" based on a suspicion that there ought to be more blood. Links to conspiracy accusations on Infowars — which disrupted an FBI press conference on Thursday — proliferate. Photos circulate purporting to show, as with this one, that the backpack containing the bomb matches one carried by a different individual. "We The Private Eye have Proven Jhar innocent an soon he will publicly be innocent ..Keep up the great job campaigners," tweeted another advocate using the hashtag #TroyCrossleyTruth. Compressing the cycle of accusation and refutation online, the hashtag is already getting trolled
Exhaled a cup of coffee, down my nose this morning when the bbc news informed me that Tsarnaev was being charged with using WMD's
:facepalm:
Well, charging someone for using shitty kitchen-made bombs sounds much less dramatic.
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 23, 2013, 08:31:09 AM
Weird about the uncle. Wired covering the beginings of the aftermath:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/04/cult-of-tsarnaev/
QuoteBarely two days after cops apprehended Suspect #2 in the Boston Marathon bombings, supporters of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev are rallying online. A flood of Twitter, Instagram and web postings are mirroring the crowdsourced effort to find the bomb culprit, except this time they're out to exonerate him. Analysts of online extremism are watching closely to see if Tsarnaev becomes a cult figure.
The #freejahar hashtag on Twitter is about what you'd expect after the most highly publicized manhunt in the country. It's a mix of conspiracy theories, sympathy for Tsarnaev and skepticism of the official narrative surrounding the 19-year-old's arrest. Much of it is consumed with an effort to crowdsource Tsarnaev's exoneration, pointing to photos from the scene and speculating about them — similar to what took place on 4chan and Reddit to hunt the bombing perpetrators.
"He's fucking innocent. If he were 'guilty', it wouldn't take this long to fucking prove it, and there would actually be evidence," says one supporter, although the government has yet to charge the incapacitated, hospitalized Tsarnaev with a crime.
@J_Tsarsupport posted a photo (warning: graphic) claiming "proof that half the 'victims' are fake" based on a suspicion that there ought to be more blood. Links to conspiracy accusations on Infowars — which disrupted an FBI press conference on Thursday — proliferate. Photos circulate purporting to show, as with this one, that the backpack containing the bomb matches one carried by a different individual. "We The Private Eye have Proven Jhar innocent an soon he will publicly be innocent ..Keep up the great job campaigners," tweeted another advocate using the hashtag #TroyCrossleyTruth. Compressing the cycle of accusation and refutation online, the hashtag is already getting trolled
Sounds odd to me. Even given the inconsistencies surrounding the background of the brothers, it seems almost certain they were the bombers. It's their motivations and affiliations that are suspect, not their involvement in the bombing.
And what is so compelling about Tsarnaev as a cult figure of sympathy?
I think it comes down to young-ish, white-ish, lived out fantasies that the "admirers" wish they had the balls to do themselves.
In this age, I suspect that you could arrest someone while they are still holding the bloody knife above the corpse screaming "I'm not even sorry!" and there would still be those who defend the person.
Best I've got.
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 23, 2013, 12:25:08 PM
I think it comes down to young-ish, white-ish, lived out fantasies that the "admirers" wish they had the balls to do themselves.
In this age, I suspect that you could arrest someone while they are still holding the bloody knife above the corpse screaming "I'm not even sorry!" and there would still be those who defend the person.
Best I've got.
Sounds like a lot of it is a state of shock and disbelief from his friends and family. It sounds like the younger of the two was doing quite alright for himself, so now people have to get past the, "He's such a nice guy!" phase. Then again, there are still people who think Charlie Manson is innocent, so let's not go there.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Yeah well...It's Amanda Palmer.
So....
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/23/17873250-muslims-helped-foil-alleged-canada-train-bomb-plot?lite
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Blocked. :argh!:
Its the lyrical equivalent of this
(http://i.imgur.com/oIpQ7Z1.gif)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 23, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Blocked. :argh!:
Quote
you don't know how it felt to be in the womb but it must have been at least a little warmer than this.
you don't know how intimately they're recording your every move on closed-circuit cameras until you see your face reflected back at you through through the pulp.
you don't know how to stop picking at your fingers.
you don't know how little you've been paying attention until you look down at your legs again.
you don't know how many times you can say you're coming until they just stop believing you.
you don't know how orgasmic the act of taking in a lungful of oxygen is until they hold your head under the water.
=/
Quote from: The Johnny on April 23, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 23, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Blocked. :argh!:
Quote
you don't know how it felt to be in the womb but it must have been at least a little warmer than this.
you don't know how intimately they're recording your every move on closed-circuit cameras until you see your face reflected back at you through through the pulp.
you don't know how to stop picking at your fingers.
you don't know how little you've been paying attention until you look down at your legs again.
you don't know how many times you can say you're coming until they just stop believing you.
you don't know how orgasmic the act of taking in a lungful of oxygen is until they hold your head under the water.
=/
It's awful, but I think James MacGonnagal's title is safe.
I've never quite liked or disliked her before this, but now... being controversial just for the sake of attention is just disgusting.
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 23, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah this is a pretty good one too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k
WTF, Massachusetts.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 23, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah this is a pretty good one too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k
WTF, Massachusetts.
Um..."Investigators" .... well that's one name to call them.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Gah. That was horrible.
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on April 23, 2013, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Gah. That was horrible.
From Waffles. Who REALLY REALLY LIKES Amanda Palmer.
Quote from: stelz on April 23, 2013, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on April 23, 2013, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Gah. That was horrible.
From Waffles. Who REALLY REALLY LIKES Amanda Palmer.
I fucking hate art fart poets.
Look, there's 3 kinds of poets:
1. The Greats. Robert Service, Rudyard Kipling, Shakespeare.
2. The Horribly Good. James MacGonnagal.
3. The Horrible. Amanda Palmer has just demonstrated that. It's not even Buldada. It has gone from good to bad, busted back out into good, then crashed and burned in bad. There's no fucking excuse for this shit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 23, 2013, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 23, 2013, 07:53:13 PM
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on April 23, 2013, 07:15:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
And then there's this...
http://gawker.com/amanda-palmers-a-poem-for-dzhokhar-is-the-worst-poem-476820444
QuoteThis weekend... an actual crime against humanity was being ignored: Musician Amanda Palmer was writing the worst poem ever composed in the English language, "A Poem for Dzhokhar."
Gah. That was horrible.
From Waffles. Who REALLY REALLY LIKES Amanda Palmer.
I fucking hate art fart poets.
Look, there's 3 kinds of poets:
1. The Greats. Robert Service, Rudyard Kipling, Shakespeare.
2. The Horribly Good. James MacGonnagal.
3. The Horrible. Amanda Palmer has just demonstrated that. It's not even Buldada. It has gone from good to bad, busted back out into good, then crashed and burned in bad. There's no fucking excuse for this shit.
I think she thinks she's still at that Ted talk.
And man! Does Gawker srsly hate her.
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2013, 03:15:07 PM
Its the lyrical equivalent of this
(http://i.imgur.com/oIpQ7Z1.gif)
WTF did you just put in my eyes, you bastard! It won't come out :argh!:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 23, 2013, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2013, 03:15:07 PM
Its the lyrical equivalent of this
(http://i.imgur.com/oIpQ7Z1.gif)
WTF did you just put in my eyes, you bastard! It won't come out :argh!:
Only with the FAP shall you be released from its hold!
Shit just got meta.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/boston-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-influenced-by-mysterious-radical.php?m=1
One of the bombers read Infowars.
I noticed three things.
1. It's a terrible poem, worse than anything I have ever written. I am burning with jealousy.
2. It's not about Drothafhakjuzar or whatever his name is, it's about Amanda Palmer. Which is, you know.
3.
Quoteand i thought: this is amazing. when was the last time a thousand people argued about a stupid poem? -- Amanda Palmer
God damn, that's a good observation.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 23, 2013, 10:43:54 PM
Shit just got meta.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/boston-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-influenced-by-mysterious-radical.php?m=1
One of the bombers read Infowars.
Oh, my!
A "mystery radical" which, apparently, was in contact with Tamerlan before the FBI investigated him in 2011.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 10:45:55 PM
I noticed three things.
1. It's a terrible poem, worse than anything I have ever written. I am burning with jealousy.
2. It's not about Drothafhakjuzar or whatever his name is, it's about Amanda Palmer. Which is, you know.
3. Quoteand i thought: this is amazing. when was the last time a thousand people argued about a stupid poem? -- Amanda Palmer
God damn, that's a good observation.
NOBODY outdoes Kitty Parsons.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on April 23, 2013, 10:29:37 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 23, 2013, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2013, 03:15:07 PM
Its the lyrical equivalent of this
(http://i.imgur.com/oIpQ7Z1.gif)
WTF did you just put in my eyes, you bastard! It won't come out :argh!:
Only with the FAP shall you be released from its hold!
Fapping to that will ruin a man.
Quote from: stelz on April 23, 2013, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 10:45:55 PM
I noticed three things.
1. It's a terrible poem, worse than anything I have ever written. I am burning with jealousy.
2. It's not about Drothafhakjuzar or whatever his name is, it's about Amanda Palmer. Which is, you know.
3. Quoteand i thought: this is amazing. when was the last time a thousand people argued about a stupid poem? -- Amanda Palmer
God damn, that's a good observation.
NOBODY outdoes Kitty Parsons.
I don't know, Kitty's feeling pretty upstaged, here. That was ABYSMAL. Further, it was LONG.
I don't know that Kitty has the staying power to compete. Every line ended in a period.
Kitty may just go off on a snit and write an epic poem about how much she envies and admires Amanda Palmer.
Quote from: Cain on April 23, 2013, 10:49:42 PM
A "mystery radical" which, apparently, was in contact with Tamerlan before the FBI investigated him in 2011.
uhhhh that's not sketchy AT ALL.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 23, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah this is a pretty good one too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k
WTF, Massachusetts.
Quote from: 3:07 dude
I mean I hope the guy is not like in my house, i mean i hope they catch him... Certainly not happy about it, i wanted to sleep.
Well, it's 100% cool beans to get your basic liberties of no search without a warrant getting stomped on as long as you are allowed to sleep. Or something.
GIVE ME LIBERTY
OR... don't, I guess.
It's up to you.
I'll just be in here taking a nap.
If that's OK.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 23, 2013, 02:57:56 PM
So....
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/23/17873250-muslims-helped-foil-alleged-canada-train-bomb-plot?lite
See, this is what happens when you DON'T treat Muslims like shit.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 24, 2013, 03:45:36 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 23, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah this is a pretty good one too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k
WTF, Massachusetts.
Quote from: 3:07 dude
I mean I hope the guy is not like in my house, i mean i hope they catch him... Certainly not happy about it, i wanted to sleep.
Well, it's 100% cool beans to get your basic liberties of no search without a warrant getting stomped on as long as you are allowed to sleep. Or something.
P.C. = Probable Cause
P.C. = Perpetual Cause
...it's an easy substitution
Quote from: The Johnny on April 24, 2013, 03:45:36 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on April 23, 2013, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 23, 2013, 04:24:22 PM
Police perform house-to-house raids in Watertown MA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!)
Wait....WAT THE FUCK!?
Yeah this is a pretty good one too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Gb6i5DF9k
WTF, Massachusetts.
Quote from: 3:07 dude
I mean I hope the guy is not like in my house, i mean i hope they catch him... Certainly not happy about it, i wanted to sleep.
Well, it's 100% cool beans to get your basic liberties of no search without a warrant getting stomped on as long as you are allowed to sleep. Or something.
I might be projecting here a little but that guy in nigel's linked vid holding his daughter...talking about how he didn't like it but something to the effect of 'it's a good thing that they're doing what they have to do.' Ugh I couldn't help but wince...There's no way he was believing that crap coming out of his own mouth.
It's like he was getting governmentally pigscrewed in front of his whole town and saying, "um ... well... okay if this is what you have to do...then do it'.
I mean if you didn't have a choice then you fucking shout, "DO YOUR WORST COCKSUCKERS!" but damn...if this is a small representation of our whole country then I just want to say that it's been a pleasure knowing all of you folks the past couple years.
Just so everyone knows, the Elvis impersonator charged with sending ricin to President Obama has been cleared and released (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/23/us/ricin-suspect-released/index.html?hpt=hp_t3).
QuoteCharges were dropped and "new information" became available, U.S. Attorney Felicia Adams said.
Authorities are investigating whether someone may have tried to falsely implicate the Elvis impersonator from Corinth, Mississippi, a law enforcement source said on condition of anonymity.
Hmmm (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/chambliss-law-enforcement-agency-may-have-known-ab/nXT7x/):
QuoteGeorgia Sen. Saxby Chambliss told Channel 2 Action News late Tuesday afternoon that a law enforcement agency may have had information in advance of the Boston bombings that wasn't properly shared.
"There now appears that may have been some evidence that was obtained by one of the law enforcement agencies that did not get shared in a way that it could have been. If that turns out to be the case, then we have to determine whether or not that would have made a difference," Chambliss said.
Though Chambliss would not get into specifics on the information or whether or not the bombing could have been prevented, he told Channel 2 Action News that they will find out if someone dropped the ball.
Chambliss isn't up for re-election either, so consider me interested in this allegation.
Consortium News, the website of investigative journalist Robert Parry, has a good piece up on the strategy of support for Chechen terrorists by the United States (http://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/19/chechen-terrorists-and-the-neocons/):
QuoteAuthor John Laughland wrote: "the leading group which pleads the Chechen cause is the American Committee for Peace in Chechnya (ACPC). The list of the self-styled 'distinguished Americans' who are its members is a roll call of the most prominent neoconservatives who so enthusiastically support the 'war on terror.'
"They include Richard Perle, the notorious Pentagon adviser; Elliott Abrams of Iran-Contra fame; Kenneth Adelman, the former US ambassador to the UN who egged on the invasion of Iraq by predicting it would be 'a cakewalk'; Midge Decter, biographer of Donald Rumsfeld and a director of the rightwing Heritage Foundation; Frank Gaffney of the militarist Centre for Security Policy; Bruce Jackson, former US military intelligence officer and one-time vice-president of Lockheed Martin, now president of the US Committee on Nato; Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a former admirer of Italian fascism and now a leading proponent of regime change in Iran; and R. James Woolsey, the former CIA director who is one of the leading cheerleaders behind George Bush's plans to re-model the Muslim world along pro-US lines."
The ACPC later sanitized "Chechnya" to "Caucasus" so it's rebranded itself as the "American Committee for Peace in the Caucasus."
Also this is of considerable interest:
QuoteShenon's discovery involved key information that the FBI and the entire "intelligence" community mishandled and covered up, not only before 9/11 but for a decade afterward. And it also related to the exact point of my 2002 "whistleblower memo" that led to the post 9/11 DOJ-Inspector General investigation about FBI failures and also partially helped launch the 9/11 Commission investigation.
But still the full truth did not come out, even after Shenon's blockbuster discovery in 2011 of the April 2001 memo linking the main Chechen leader Ibn al Khattab to Osama bin Laden. The buried April 2001 memo had been addressed to FBI Director Louis Freeh (another illegal recipient of MEK money, by the way!) and also to eight of the FBI's top counter-terrorism officials.
Similar memos must have been widely shared with all U.S. intelligence in April 2001. Within days of terrorist suspect Zaccarias Moussaoui's arrest in Minnesota on Aug. 16, 2001, French intelligence confirmed that Moussaoui had been fighting under and recruiting for Ibn al-Khattab, raising concerns about Moussaoui's flight training.
Yet FBI Headquarters officials balked at allowing a search of his laptop and other property, still refusing to recognize that: 1) the Chechen separatists were themselves a "terrorist group" for purposes of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act's (FISA) legal requirement of acting "on behalf of a foreign power" and 2) that Moussaoui's link to Ibn al Khattab inherently then linked him to bin Laden's well-recognized Al Qaeda group for purposes of FISA (the point in my memo).
And of course, we know that in the late 1990s, the CIA was also supporting Chechen terrorists:
Quote from: Nafeez AhmedFrom the mid-1990s, bin Laden funded Chechen guerrilla leaders Shamil Basayev and Omar ibn al-Khattab to the tune of several millions of dollars per month, sidelining the moderate Chechen majority. US intelligence remained deeply involved until the end of the decade. According to Yossef Bodanksy, then-Director of the US Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, Washington was actively involved in 'yet another anti-Russian jihad, 'seeking to support and empower the most virulent anti-Western Islamist forces'. US Government officials participated in 'a formal meeting in Azerbaijan' in December 1999 'in which specific programmes for the training and equipping of mujahidin from the Caucasus, Central/South Asia and the Arab world were discussed and agreed upon', culminating in 'Washington's tacit encouragement of both Muslim allies (mainly Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia) and US "private security companies"... to assist the Chechens and their Islamist allies to surge in the spring of 2000 and sustain the ensuing jihad for a long time.' The US saw the sponsorship of 'Islamist jihad in the Caucasus' as a way to 'deprive Russia of a viable pipeline route through spiraling violence and terrorism'.
Oh wow, that's interesting stuff, Cain!~
Yeah. It's one reason I'm still considering alternative explanations for the bombings. Chechnya is such a clusterfuck of parapolitical interest, both in the USA and in Russia, that anything resulting from that region is tainted by the suspicion of involvement.
Still nothing definitive, but lots of potential avenues of inquiry.
You know why I enjoy PD? Because of this stuff. I tried talking to a co-worker about this and she's like "Those damn Russians!" Because Chechnya is a city in Russia. "They come over here all pissed about our vodka being better than theirs and go apeshit!"
O.o
Thank you, Cain. For not being a moron.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 24, 2013, 07:25:03 PM
Thank you, Cain. For not being a moron.
You're welcome.
Quote from: Cain on April 24, 2013, 09:55:21 AM
Just so everyone knows, the Elvis impersonator charged with sending ricin to President Obama has been cleared and released (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/23/us/ricin-suspect-released/index.html?hpt=hp_t3).
QuoteCharges were dropped and "new information" became available, U.S. Attorney Felicia Adams said.
Authorities are investigating whether someone may have tried to falsely implicate the Elvis impersonator from Corinth, Mississippi, a law enforcement source said on condition of anonymity.
Also, related to this: does anyone else remember they tried painting the suspect as a lunatic because he believed in a secret network dealing in an illegal trade in organs and other body parts?
Quote from: Not An Attempted Presidential AssassinAbout 4 hour into the job after I laid down the first coat of sealer, I became very thirsty. I was unable to exit the morgue due to floor finish not drying as fast as I had anticipated with the humidity level, so I opened the dor to a small refrigerator located to the right of the autopsy table. I assumed I might find some water or anything to drink as I was dehydrated.
What I discovered, changed my life forever! There were dismembered body parts & organs wrapped in plastic. A leg, an arm, a hand, a foot, hearts, lungs, tissue, eyes and even a severed human head!
Well, about that... (http://www.icij.org/tissue/body-brokers-leave-trail-questions-corruption)
RTI Biologics is a Gainsville company that did a lot of business with Ukrainian tissue providers, who were investigated for illegal tissue recovery multiple times (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/09/07/10828/impact-rti-biologics-suspends-import-human-tissue-ukraine).
But you know, he's obviously the crazy one.
Yet another wonderful clusterfuck.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 24, 2013, 07:25:03 PM
You know why I enjoy PD? Because of this stuff. I tried talking to a co-worker about this and she's like "Those damn Russians!" Because Chechnya is a city in Russia. "They come over here all pissed about our vodka being better than theirs and go apeshit!"
O.o
Thank you, Cain. For not being a moron.
SO much this.
People here just zone out on FOX and cheese tater tots, looking dumbstruck until they start repeating "Terrorists...terrorists..."
I don't even try to engage them in conversation anymore.
Quote from: Cain on April 24, 2013, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on April 24, 2013, 07:25:03 PM
Thank you, Cain. For not being a moron.
You're welcome.
Quote from: Cain on April 24, 2013, 09:55:21 AM
Just so everyone knows, the Elvis impersonator charged with sending ricin to President Obama has been cleared and released (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/23/us/ricin-suspect-released/index.html?hpt=hp_t3).
QuoteCharges were dropped and "new information" became available, U.S. Attorney Felicia Adams said.
Authorities are investigating whether someone may have tried to falsely implicate the Elvis impersonator from Corinth, Mississippi, a law enforcement source said on condition of anonymity.
Also, related to this: does anyone else remember they tried painting the suspect as a lunatic because he believed in a secret network dealing in an illegal trade in organs and other body parts?
Quote from: Not An Attempted Presidential AssassinAbout 4 hour into the job after I laid down the first coat of sealer, I became very thirsty. I was unable to exit the morgue due to floor finish not drying as fast as I had anticipated with the humidity level, so I opened the dor to a small refrigerator located to the right of the autopsy table. I assumed I might find some water or anything to drink as I was dehydrated.
What I discovered, changed my life forever! There were dismembered body parts & organs wrapped in plastic. A leg, an arm, a hand, a foot, hearts, lungs, tissue, eyes and even a severed human head!
Well, about that... (http://www.icij.org/tissue/body-brokers-leave-trail-questions-corruption)
RTI Biologics is a Gainsville company that did a lot of business with Ukrainian tissue providers, who were investigated for illegal tissue recovery multiple times (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/09/07/10828/impact-rti-biologics-suspends-import-human-tissue-ukraine).
But you know, he's obviously the crazy one.
:eek: Oh wow.
Oh dear
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2013/04/23/russia-contacted-fbi-multiple-times-concerns-about-alleged-boston-marathon-bomber/NXGbfiW7hyYeRpdryaK3mN/story.html
QuoteRussian authorities alerted the US government not once but "multiple'' times over their concerns about Tamerlan Tsarnaev — including a second time nearly a year after he was first interviewed by FBI agents in Boston — raising new questions about whether the FBI should have focused more attention on the suspected Boston Marathon bomber, according to US senators briefed on the probe Tuesday.
[...]
In a closed briefing on Tuesday, members of the Senate Intelligence Committee learned that Russia alerted the United States about Tsarnaev in "multiple contacts'' — including "at least once since October 2011,'' said Richard Burr, a Republican of North Carolina, speaking with reporters afterward.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/biden-lashes-out-at-twisted-perverted-terrorists-in-eulogy-for-slain-office/2013/04/24/652b987a-acf8-11e2-a8b9-2a63d75b5459_print.html
QuoteThe CIA asked the main U.S. counterterrorism agency to add the name of one of the suspected Boston Marathon bombers to a watch list more than a year before the attack, according to U.S. officials.
The agency took the step after Russian authorities contacted officials there in the fall of 2011 and raised concerns that Tamerlan Tsarnaev — who was killed last week in a confrontation with police — was seen as an increasingly radical Islamist and could be planning to travel overseas. The CIA requested that his name be put on a database maintained by the National Counterterrorism Center.
That database, the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, or TIDE, is a data storehouse that feeds a series of government watch lists, including the FBI's main Terrorist Screening Database and the Transportation Security Administration's "no-fly" list.
Officials said Tsarnaev's name was added to the database but it's unclear which agency added it.
Admittedly now, the TIDE program is crap. Basically anyone who has ever come into contact with a suspected terrorist has an entry in TIDE, which includes vast swathes of the population. I probably have a TIDE file somewhere.
However, the idea that no-one could have predicted what happened is becoming somewhat tenuous. Even given the large amounts of false flags raised by many counter-terrorism programs such as TIDE, when you have an intelligence agency going out of its way to knock on your door not once but at least twice to give you a warning about a specific person, it's hard to claim they were an unstoppable, hitherto unknown "lone wolf".
Given that our countries aren't all that friendly, could part of the reason why the FBI apparently repeatedly ignored the Russians' concerns be because they were coming from the Russians? I wonder if some people in the FBI might've asked themselves why a Chechen would want to attack the U.S., and simply figure the Russians were trying to stir something up?
It's possible, yes. But then, it should have also been considered that the Russians do have something to gain here - namely preventing terrorism from the Chechen emigre community and perhaps highlighting the danger of Chechen terrorism to the American public and thus convincing American policymakers that Chechnya is another front in the War on Terror. It would be much easier for the FSB to sit on their hands and do nothing if the issue fundamentally did not serve their interests in some way, so I'd be surprised if someone didn't point out what this might gain for Russia.
Assuming this wasn't some crazy plan cooked up in an FSB basement in the first place, of course.
So.... (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/miranda-warning-then-silence-bombing-suspect)
QuoteThe officials told the AP that no gun was found in the boat where Dzhokhar was hiding. Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat.
Asked whether the suspect had a gun in the boat, Davis said, "I'm not going to talk about that."
But Kurt Schwartz, director of the Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency, said a police officer was shot within half a mile of where Tsarnaev was captured, "and I know who shot him."
Authorities had previously said Dzhokhar exchanged gunfire with them for more than an hour Friday night before they captured him inside a tarp-covered boat in a suburban Boston neighborhood backyard. But two U.S. officials said Wednesday that he was unarmed when captured, raising questions about the gunfire and how he was injured.
Either Chechens have mind bullets and thus are far more dangerous than ever anticipated, or Boston PD basically held Dzhokhar down and shot him in the throat.
There were some odd reports that day. Some people heard popping sounds like firecrackers, some people said that was the flashbang grenades they used. Would the cops use a lower-caliber round in those instances? The kinds of guns shown on TV would have much louder reports than what was captured on tape.
I couldn't say. It's possible that a SWAT team would used suppressed weapons, I would guess.
Quote from: Cain on April 25, 2013, 03:10:02 PM
So.... (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/miranda-warning-then-silence-bombing-suspect)
QuoteThe officials told the AP that no gun was found in the boat where Dzhokhar was hiding. Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat.
Asked whether the suspect had a gun in the boat, Davis said, "I'm not going to talk about that."
But Kurt Schwartz, director of the Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency, said a police officer was shot within half a mile of where Tsarnaev was captured, "and I know who shot him."
Authorities had previously said Dzhokhar exchanged gunfire with them for more than an hour Friday night before they captured him inside a tarp-covered boat in a suburban Boston neighborhood backyard. But two U.S. officials said Wednesday that he was unarmed when captured, raising questions about the gunfire and how he was injured.
Either Chechens have mind bullets and thus are far more dangerous than ever anticipated, or Boston PD basically held Dzhokhar down and shot him in the throat.
The guy who lived there said he went outside for a cigarette, saw blood on the boat,
and walked over there and lifted the tarp.This goes a long way towards explaining how he didn't get shot.
Yeah.
Also turns out the New York Times reported incorrectly on Friday. Dzhokhar was still inside the lockdown zone.
Somebody killed the kid who was wrongly identified on Reddit, etc. :x :cry:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/
Just caught that. Cue the hate barrage from old media about how dangerous new media is.
Not like any major news channels named that guy too is it?
Somebodies getting sued from this. Spin the wheel and see where the litigation lands! BET BET BET
Keeping fingers crossed for accidental drowning :(
Is that one of the "Bag Men" reported by the New York Post?
Quote from: stelz on April 25, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 25, 2013, 03:10:02 PM
So.... (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/miranda-warning-then-silence-bombing-suspect)
QuoteThe officials told the AP that no gun was found in the boat where Dzhokhar was hiding. Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat.
Asked whether the suspect had a gun in the boat, Davis said, "I'm not going to talk about that."
But Kurt Schwartz, director of the Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency, said a police officer was shot within half a mile of where Tsarnaev was captured, "and I know who shot him."
Authorities had previously said Dzhokhar exchanged gunfire with them for more than an hour Friday night before they captured him inside a tarp-covered boat in a suburban Boston neighborhood backyard. But two U.S. officials said Wednesday that he was unarmed when captured, raising questions about the gunfire and how he was injured.
Either Chechens have mind bullets and thus are far more dangerous than ever anticipated, or Boston PD basically held Dzhokhar down and shot him in the throat.
The guy who lived there said he went outside for a cigarette, saw blood on the boat, and walked over there and lifted the tarp.
This goes a long way towards explaining how he didn't get shot.
It really puts that neck injury in a bad light. Trying to ID the actual shooter is going to be practically impossible I guessing. I'd bet there's little inclination to either. The Infowars brigade is going to have a ton of 3 letter suspects by the weekend.
Quote from: Faust
Hey at least you didn't nearly get the wrong guy killed like reddit and 4chan did.
Quote from: stelz on April 25, 2013, 06:51:06 PM
Somebody killed the kid who was wrongly identified on Reddit, etc. :x :cry:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/
The student found dead had been missing since the middle of March: http://www.abc6.com/story/21665412/providence-police-seek-missing-person
I think forensic evidence still needs to come to light before we know if he died/was killed before or after the bombings. It's certainly still a possibility that he was killed by the witch hunt.
I suppose accusing someone who had died in an accident/ commited suicide / was murdered as the killer using CSI racial profiling isn't quite as bad as what I imagined.
Quote from: Cainad on April 25, 2013, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: stelz on April 25, 2013, 06:51:06 PM
Somebody killed the kid who was wrongly identified on Reddit, etc. :x :cry:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/
The student found dead had been missing since the middle of March: http://www.abc6.com/story/21665412/providence-police-seek-missing-person
I think forensic evidence still needs to come to light before we know if he died/was killed before or after the bombings. It's certainly still a possibility that he was killed by the witch hunt.
His body was said to have been in the river for "a long time." It looks like a suicide.
Hopsicker casts doubt (http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/26/boston-bombers-uncle-married-daughter-of-top-cia-official/) on the "chubby red-haired Armenian exorcist" Misha, who is allegedly the radical who influenced the Boston bombers:
QuoteTsarni's vivid description seemed to be taken from personal observation, from, in other words...real life. But that isn't possible. Tsarni had stated he hadn't been physically in the presence of his Boston relatives since December 2005. And Misha, if he existed, didn't show up on the scene until 2008 at the earliest.
QuoteIn any other context, this might be seen as the rankest kind of "conspiracy theory." But, apparently, when the Associated Press does it, its news.
Then Uncle Ruslan made a clear mis-step.
"An uncle of the alleged bombers claims that Misha, an Armenian convert to Islam, had a huge influence on the elder brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev. Describing him as an "Armenia exorcist, Tsarni said, "Somehow he just took his brain."
Armenians are a deeply-rooted Christian community, which is proud of the fact that their country was the first in the world to adopt Christianity as state religion in 301 AD.
Moreover this is the week every year when they remember the Armenian Holocaust, when as many as 1,000,000 Armenians were slaughtered by Turkish Muslims.
In the large and close-knit Boston Armenian community, a red-bearded Armenian named Misha becoming a radicalized Muslim would stand out.
"I've never heard of him, nor has anyone that I know," Hilda Avedissian, executive director at the Armenian Cultural & Educational Centre
Also included in the article is additional information showing that Uncle Ruslan married the daughter of Graham Fuller, who is National Security State aristocracy. CIA station Chief in Kabul, expert on Islamic extremism, the inspiration behind Iran-Contra...just a few snippets from his biography. Tsarnaev incorporated the Congress of Chechen International Organizations in Maryland using Fuller's address, too.
The CCIO seems to not just be your average NGO either, going by this letter (http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/case_docs/2154.pdf). The Shaikh Fathi mentioned is "an ethnic Chechen from Jordan who had come to Chechnya in 1995. At that time, Fathi formed a unit of those who had recently arrived from the Middle East. His unit soon began to expand at the expense of other Chechen groups, as many fighters were attracted to his methods and equipment. Fathi's brigade was well outfitted and had no financial problems, in contrast to the Chechen units, which often looked bedraggled compared to his unit. Before coming to Chechnya, Sheikh Fathi had extensive military experience in Afghanistan and Tadjikistan. Despite his advanced years (he was well over 60, at the time), Fathi decided to devote himself to the struggle against the Russian occupation of Chechnya."
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=2859 (source)
Just saying.
Looks like there is a new suspect in the ricin case: Everett Dutschke.
Russians contacted US counterterrorism officials no less than four times (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/us/tamerlan-tsarnaev-bomb-suspect-was-on-watch-lists.html?_r=0):
QuoteThe picture emerging Wednesday was of a counterterrorism bureaucracy that had at least four contacts with Russian spy services about Mr. Tsarnaev in the year before he took a six-month trip to Russia in 2012, but never found reason to investigate him further after he returned, or at any time before last week's attacks in Boston that killed 3 people and injured more than 260.
The Russians had a phone tap (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57581760/boston-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-caught-on-russia-wiretap/) on him, as well:
QuoteRussian authorities secretly recorded a telephone conversation in 2011 in which one of the Boston bombing suspects had a conversation with his mother of a radical nature, officials confirmed to CBS News correspondent Bob Orr Saturday, days after the U.S. government finally received details about the call.
In another conversation, the mother of now-dead bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev was recorded talking to someone in southern Russia who is under FBI investigation in an unrelated case, officials told The Associated Press.
The conversations are significant because, had they been revealed earlier, they might have been enough evidence for the FBI to initiate a more thorough investigation of the Tsarnaev family.
As it was, Russian authorities told the FBI only that they had concerns that Tamerlan and his mother were religious extremists. With no additional information, the FBI conducted a limited inquiry and closed the case in June 2011.
Saudi Arabia also sent warnings (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2317493/Saudi-official-Kingdom-warned-United-States-IN-WRITING-Boston-Bomber-Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-2012-rejected-application-entry-visa-visit-Mecca-2011.html) about the Boston bombers:
QuoteThe Kingdom of Saudi Arabia sent a written warning about accused Boston Marathon bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security in 2012, long before pressure-cooker blasts killed three and injured hundreds, according to a senior Saudi government official with direct knowledge of the document.
[...]
Citing security concerns, the Saudi government also denied an entry visa to the elder Tsarnaev brother in December 2011, when he hoped to make a pilgrimage to Mecca, the source said. Tsarnaev's plans to visit Saudi Arabia have not been previously disclosed.
Now this does smell a bit funky in places, but it seems to be confirmed by sources with knowledge of the warning in the USA. On the whole I think it is valid, but possibly not telling us the whole story. The article has something of a feel of a government information operation about it, which raises the question: why?
Incidentally, Daniel Hopsicker (http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/29/uncle-ruslan-aid-to-terrorists-from-cia-officials-home/) has confirmed my above research, to the point I'm wondering if we are reading each other:
QuoteWhat does this have to do with the Boston Marathon bombing?
One clue: The President of "Uncle Ruslan's" Congress of Chechen Organizations International, an expatriate Penn State engineering professor Mohammed Sishani, conducted almost all of his business through another organization he led, called the Chechen-Ingush Society of America.
All of his aboveboard business, that is. Ruslan's outfit surfaced for the dirty bits, the covert side of the Chechen's cause.
Was Ruslan Tsarni's organization acting as a free agent? Or was it a "cut-out" for the CIA, a convenient way to establish plausible deniability while executing decisions made by U.S. intelligence agencies, who were apparently interceding on the side of people we were calling "rebels" instead of "terrorists" for no reason other than it suited American objectives for Russian forces to get bogged down in a series of bitter civil wars?
Were such actions US policy at the time? Some say the answer is "yes." Wikileaks cables seem to agree.
America's fostering of a jihadist mercenary force in Afghanistan led directly to the blowback that became the 9/11 attack.
The creation of a "second Afghanistan" in the Caucasus may also have led to blowback: the unintended consequences of a covert operation. The result was in bombs going off in Boston.
Were two young jihadis from the North Caucasus region of Russia recruited to become Islamist terrorists and attack the United States at the Boston Marathon?
Questions remain. No, questions don't "remain." They "abound."
The elder Fuller had retired from the agency almost a decade before the brief marriage," wrote the reporter he selected to give him a sympathetic hearing.
If he'd retired, and taken up horticulture, or origami, or golfing in Florida wearing lime-green sweater-slack combinations, rumors that his ex-son-in-law had connections with the CIA might indeed be absurd.
Was that how Mr. Fuller was spending his well-deserved retirement? Nope... He was working for RAND Corporation.
It was a busman's holiday. But there was also something else... Uncle Ruslan Tsarni's company, back in 1996, was actively aiding Islamic terrorists in Chechnya.
And there's no telling what he's up to now, because a story last week revealed that he was working for the US Government, again. And again, it was USAID. This time, since 2008.
Using the home address of a top CIA official under President Ronald Reagan, who had also, and perhaps not coincidentally, been the author of a famous memo that eventually led Oliver North to step off a plane in Iran with TOW missiles in one hand and a cake for the Ayatollah in the other, Ruslan Tsarni's Congress of Chechens put into practice the CIA's unacknowledged policy in the former Soviet Republics.
He's been stirring up shit on Russia's southern border.
I guess my question is... if they receive warnings about an American citizen, and investigate and find nothing, what should the follow-up be? Are they looking for public approval to arrest and indefinitely detain citizens on the basis of suspicion aroused by warnings from other governments? I thought they already had that.
If that's the case, well, "fair dos".
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 01, 2013, 04:54:20 PM
I guess my question is... if they receive warnings about an American citizen, and investigate and find nothing, what should the follow-up be? Are they looking for public approval to arrest and indefinitely detain citizens on the basis of suspicion aroused by warnings from other governments? I thought they already had that.
That's a hard one, I'll agree.
I don't think any answer will be found exclusively by looking at the domestic US political situation. The international linkages abound in this case, and that suggests the answer lies at least partly in files in Riyadh and Moscow, and possibly Grozny and Sana'a too. Though there does need to be some accounting for why US counter-terrorism took such a hands off approach with the brothers, when they have been anything but in other cases, with much less evidence.
They arrested 3 more people, apparently.
Wha...?
Quote from: stelz on May 01, 2013, 05:57:41 PM
Wha...?
Three of his friends that removed things from his home after the bombings.
QuoteA lawyer representing Azamat Tazhayakov and Dias Kadyrbayev - both from Kazakhstan - said the pair had been held in jail for more than a week for allegedly violating their student visas, the Associated Press reported.
They are due to appear in court on Wednesday afternoon over separate federal charges related to the bombings investigation, the AP reported.
I don't know what to make of any of this. Might just be a Chechnyan roundup? :x
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
:horrormirth: :horrormirth: :horrormirth:
Idiots. They're fucked.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
I look eagerly forward to the response of Alex Jones.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
That's not a real license plate. :?
Quote from: Hoopla on May 01, 2013, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
I look eagerly forward to the response of Alex Jones.
NWO BOHEMIAN GROVE OBAMACARE MARXISM SATAN HEGELIAN DIALECTIC TYRANNY AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.
Of course.
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2013, 06:31:35 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on May 01, 2013, 06:28:26 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
I look eagerly forward to the response of Alex Jones.
NWO BOHEMIAN GROVE OBAMACARE MARXISM SATAN HEGELIAN DIALECTIC TYRANNY AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.
Of course.
Of course. But it's the "AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH" I enjoy so much.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 01, 2013, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
That's not a real license plate. :?
Oh fuck.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 01, 2013, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 01, 2013, 06:09:08 PM
hahaha..
so, the two they just arrested drove around in a car (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/new-boston-suspects-drove-car-with-terrorista-1-license-plates/) with a license plate reading 'TERRORISTA #1'.
That's not a real license plate. :?
yeah. it looks like one of those vanity plates that you buy at AutoZone or something. maybe they sell blank ones with stick on letters?
I think some states let you have anything you want in the front and only require a real one on the back, but the article said "plates".
Still not gonna do him any favors in this situation.
You guys are really treating Daily Caller like it might have anything of value to add to the discussion?
:lulz:
yeah. OK doesn't require plates in the front, while TX does. rarely do the cops give a shit about it around here if you don't though. probably a pita if they were expected to verify every car that doesn't have a plate on the front is not from TX by letting them pass and observing the back...
hell, they don't even have the front plates on when they sell them at the dealership.
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2013, 06:55:22 PM
You guys are really treating Daily Caller like it might have anything of value to add to the discussion?
nah. just a funny picture.
Quote from: Cain on May 01, 2013, 06:55:22 PM
You guys are really treating Daily Caller like it might have anything of value to add to the discussion?
:lulz:
Point. :lol:
QuoteThe lawyers argued that Phillipos was questioned without a lawyer and made himself available to federal authorities at all times. The charge of lying has ruined what was a bright future, they said.
"This case is about a frightened and confused 19-year-old who was subjected to intense questioning and interrogation, without the benefit of counsel, and in the context of one of the worst attacks against the nation," the lawyers wrote.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/06/18084257-frightened-tsarnaev-friend-can-be-released-with-conditions-prosecutors-say?lite
AMERRRRRICA, AMERRRRRRRRRICA!
\
:teabagger1:
High Value Interrogation Group again?
They're really pushing hard for some Islamist radical conspiracy.
Quote from: Cain on May 06, 2013, 08:08:28 PM
High Value Interrogation Group again?
They're really pushing hard for some Islamist radical conspiracy.
Yep.
And this extra-judicial nonsense is becoming
normal.
No counsel.
No Miranda Warning.
Held as long as we fucking feel like holding you, habeus corpus be damned.
Interrogate without counsel until the person contradicts themselves, then bust them for lying. Then send them home with an ankle bracelet. Because even if the person wasn't a threat, being badgered into contradicting yourself constitutes felony obstruction. IE, we just generated a crime where there wasn't one before.
Meanwhile, in Minnesota:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/06/18087039-officials-minnesota-man-arrested-on-suspicion-of-plotting-terror-attack?lite
Buford? Someone named their kid BUFORD? I'd be a terrorist, too. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2013, 08:18:58 PM
Meanwhile, in Minnesota:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/06/18087039-officials-minnesota-man-arrested-on-suspicion-of-plotting-terror-attack?lite
Buford? Someone named their kid BUFORD? I'd be a terrorist, too. :lulz:
THAT AIN'T FUNNY
/
:redneck2: <-----BUFORD
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 06, 2013, 08:18:58 PM
Meanwhile, in Minnesota:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/06/18087039-officials-minnesota-man-arrested-on-suspicion-of-plotting-terror-attack?lite
Buford? Someone named their kid BUFORD? I'd be a terrorist, too. :lulz:
I had a great uncle named Buford. He was married to my great aunt, Fannie. They lived somewhere in Tennessee. Buford's hands were all gnarly with arthritis brought on by directly handling various objects made of uranium during his time in the military at a base that did some of the grunt work for the Manhattan Project.
So, yeah, actually I guess the name Buford indicates a high likelihood of building bombs.
NSFWCorp (https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/didnt-contribute/):
QuoteFor now, I want to start with one of the biggest "What The Fuck?!" in the bombing story, a detail so far completely overlooked: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's high school project "mentor," Brian Glyn Williams. Brian Glyn Williams happens to work for the CIA, on Islamic suicide bombers, Chechnya, and jihadi terrorism. Williams is also an associate professor of history at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth, the university where 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was enrolled, and where he spent many of his last free hours between the Boston Marathon bombing on April 15, and his arrest on April 19.
QuoteFor now, let's go back to the story of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's high school mentor-slash-CIA employee, professor Brian Glyn Williams — why was he initially so worried that he might have "contributed" to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's radicalization?
Two years ago, when Dzhokhar was a high school student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, his teacher introduced him to professor Williams, who helped mentor Dzhokhar through his big project he was working on about Chechnya — specifically, about Chechnya's fight against Russia for its independence, and the horrific tragedies and attempted genocides that the Chechens have suffered.
This is exactly the sort of material that has tended to radicalize Chechens into a jihadi mindset — which you could argue is justifiable, except when you consider the CIA man, and the neocons and imperialists who've championed that same tragedy, and that same cause. In that case, you have to ask why Chechen anger, pain, and radicalization were harvested and encouraged by the same people who exterminate Islamic separatists fighting for their right to self-determination everywhere else, starting with Israel's occupied territories
QuoteProfessor Williams is also known as a leading expert on the Saudi Chechen rebel leader/terrorist, Khattab, the most obvious link between Chechen rebels and Al Qaeda. But because Khattab also confined most of his killing to Russians, civilians and military alike, Professor Williams' expert opinion on Khattab was that he wasn't a terrorist.
Ames article also ties in the information I have previously gathered in this thread, on the background of the uncle and the geopolitical situation in Chechnya - and the 9/11 link to Chechen terrorism.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1158287/tumbleweed-o.gif)
You still called it. Fuck a tumbleweed.
What kind of influence are they claiming Williams had on Dzhokar? As as CIA employee his position is much more likely to be a consultant one, as a leading authority on the region, than, say the kind of operative who would intentionally radicalize. I say this as a resident of the area and, well, unless the CIA is dumping resources into every swampy wasteland campus in the country in hopes of finding the right kid to push over the edge, that link doesn't look all that strong.
Honestly, I have no idea WHAT to make of all this.
Was he radicalized by pure information from a teacher? Was he radicalized as a honey trap with CIA ties? Did some Muslim guru radicalize him?
What part did the kid play in all this? Was he simply brainwashed, or did he follow a path of misguided-but-twistedly-logical steps to get where he went?
I have no ability to get my head around this.
I'm with LMNO here on this, too. Thanks for forwarding that Cain.
Quote from: Cain on May 10, 2013, 09:43:08 PM
NSFWCorp (https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/didnt-contribute/):
QuoteFor now, I want to start with one of the biggest "What The Fuck?!" in the bombing story, a detail so far completely overlooked: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's high school project "mentor," Brian Glyn Williams. Brian Glyn Williams happens to work for the CIA, on Islamic suicide bombers, Chechnya, and jihadi terrorism. Williams is also an associate professor of history at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth, the university where 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was enrolled, and where he spent many of his last free hours between the Boston Marathon bombing on April 15, and his arrest on April 19.
QuoteFor now, let's go back to the story of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's high school mentor-slash-CIA employee, professor Brian Glyn Williams — why was he initially so worried that he might have "contributed" to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's radicalization?
Two years ago, when Dzhokhar was a high school student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, his teacher introduced him to professor Williams, who helped mentor Dzhokhar through his big project he was working on about Chechnya — specifically, about Chechnya's fight against Russia for its independence, and the horrific tragedies and attempted genocides that the Chechens have suffered.
This is exactly the sort of material that has tended to radicalize Chechens into a jihadi mindset — which you could argue is justifiable, except when you consider the CIA man, and the neocons and imperialists who've championed that same tragedy, and that same cause. In that case, you have to ask why Chechen anger, pain, and radicalization were harvested and encouraged by the same people who exterminate Islamic separatists fighting for their right to self-determination everywhere else, starting with Israel's occupied territories
QuoteProfessor Williams is also known as a leading expert on the Saudi Chechen rebel leader/terrorist, Khattab, the most obvious link between Chechen rebels and Al Qaeda. But because Khattab also confined most of his killing to Russians, civilians and military alike, Professor Williams' expert opinion on Khattab was that he wasn't a terrorist.
Ames article also ties in the information I have previously gathered in this thread, on the background of the uncle and the geopolitical situation in Chechnya - and the 9/11 link to Chechen terrorism.
This just all sounds so dirty it makes me want to back away slowly. US agency involvement in domestic terrorism seems to be a link too strong to deny, and too fucking hot for media to touch.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 11, 2013, 04:11:32 AM
What kind of influence are they claiming Williams had on Dzhokar? As as CIA employee his position is much more likely to be a consultant one, as a leading authority on the region, than, say the kind of operative who would intentionally radicalize. I say this as a resident of the area and, well, unless the CIA is dumping resources into every swampy wasteland campus in the country in hopes of finding the right kid to push over the edge, that link doesn't look all that strong.
QuoteTwo years ago, when Dzhokhar was a high school student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, his teacher introduced him to professor Williams, who helped mentor Dzhokhar through his big project he was working on about Chechnya — specifically, about Chechnya's fight against Russia for its independence, and the horrific tragedies and attempted genocides that the Chechens have suffered.
This is exactly the sort of material that has tended to radicalize Chechens into a jihadi mindset — which you could argue is justifiable, except when you consider the CIA man, and the neocons and imperialists who've championed that same tragedy, and that same cause. In that case, you have to ask why Chechen anger, pain, and radicalization were harvested and encouraged by the same people who exterminate Islamic separatists fighting for their right to self-determination everywhere else, starting with Israel's occupied territories.
In the first hours after Dzhokhar's arrest, Professor Williams went to great lengths to downplay his relationship with the teenaged jihadi, even as he worried about his influence on him. The high school class assignment on which Dzhokhar worked with Williams asked each student at the ethnically-diverse and well-regarded Cambridge public school to research their own ethnic identity. As reported the day after Dzhokhar's arrest in the Standard-Times [bold mine],
Quote
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, whose family fled the horrors of the Russian occupation, was about to learn about some harrowing things he escaped from at a very young age.
Williams, whose classes [at U. Mass-Dartmouth] on the War on Terror are routinely packed, obliged by exchanging emails with the then-17-year-old student.
There was a lot to read about. Especially since the Russians retook the tiny separatist republic, there are stories of mass killings, death camps, mass graves, torture, destruction.
There were retaliatory strikes inside Russia, including a hostage drama in a Moscow theater. Russia in the end sent 100,000 troops to surround Chechnya to keep it under their thumb.
As Williams put it, an ancient civilization was being wiped away. As many as one-fifth of the Chechen population of less than a million died in those years.
What stands out here is that Williams taught Tsarnaev a version of events that, while perhaps true or truer than other versions, is nevertheless highly debatable and most likely exaggerated. The number of Chechens killed in the two wars with post-Soviet Russia, while huge, are thought by many human rights activists and scholars to be far lower than the 200,000-250,000 figure cited by neocons who support Chechen separatism — somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 total casualties (including Russian and Chechen soldiers) which is a horrible enough figure in such a small population, and a morbid business.
QuoteOddly enough, professor Williams claimed he never met Dzhokhar in person, despite mentoring him through his Chechnya project and communicating with him on numerous occasions via email when he was in high school... and despite the fact that Dzhokhar enrolled in professor Williams' university, U. Mass- Dartmouth, after graduating from high school. One would think that Dzhokhar would be interested in meeting the Chechnya history professor who helped him so much on his high school project — but apparently, we're told that wasn't the case. It certainly seems remarkable that Dzhokhar never once dropped in on professor Williams' office or class. Williams would only go so far as to say that Dzhokhar was never "formally" a student of his —U Mass-Dartmouth has so far refused to release Dzhokhar's academic records, leaving us in the dark for now.
QuoteJust a month before the Boston Marathon bombings, a profile on professor Williams detailed his work for the CIA as an expert in identifying Islamic suicide bombers. According to the profile,
QuoteHis work has taken him to London to consult with Scotland Yard and to Afghanistan to work for the Central Intelligence Agency. Williams was tasked with helping law enforcement and intelligence agencies understand the motivations and behaviors of suicide bombers. He is of the mind that while Islam is a subtext for much of the violence and terrorism in the region, it's not the sole explanation. His findings about suicide bombings in Afghanistan were informed by his understanding of tribal identities as much as fervor for the Jihadist movement. He came to these conclusions after being sent to Afghanistan by the CIA to perform firsthand research on these types of attacks.
QuoteIn 2011, Professor Williams was asked to appear at the Ottawa terrorism trial of Mohamed Harkat. The crux of the trial came down to whether or not Chechen jihadists and Khattab qualified as terrorists or not. Professor Williams flew in from Boston to assure the Canadian judge that they weren't terrorists, for the simple reason that they killed Russians, not Westerners. Killing Russians is legimitate; killing Westerners or Israelis is terrorism.
So, you have someone who taught Dzhokhar a particular version of events in Chechnya, who is an expert in radicalism for the CIA, who was at the college Dzhokhar went to, and who believes that Chechen terrorism is "legitimate" political violence.
All I'm going to say is that this sounds a hell of a lot more like a mentor than "Misha", the amazing red-haired Armenian Muslim Exorcist.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 11, 2013, 04:17:27 AM
Honestly, I have no idea WHAT to make of all this.
Was he radicalized by pure information from a teacher? Was he radicalized as a honey trap with CIA ties? Did some Muslim guru radicalize him?
What part did the kid play in all this? Was he simply brainwashed, or did he follow a path of misguided-but-twistedly-logical steps to get where he went?
I have no ability to get my head around this.
Well, not so pure information, as you can see from the quotes in my above post.
The belief of the American establishment is summed by Ames (correctly) that Chechens do not engage in terrorism, they are plucky insurgents fighting an imperialist power. This is different to Palestinians because fuck you, that's why. Also different to Palestianians because of the geopolitical context I described earlier - oil and gas pipeline routes out of Central Asia, the "Balkanization" of Russia etc.
It is also believed that Chechens only engage in terrorism against Russia. The Chechen community in the USA is not especially large, so why not radicalize them? What possible blowback could result?
Also just to say, "brainwashing" as commonly understood and practiced by, for example, cults, seems wholly absent from this case and terrorism in general. There are occasional exceptions, like Patty Hearst (maybe), but statistically speaking...
Ethnic terrorism was something of a specialist area for a former professor of mine, and what he believed was that you had to get someone to strongly identify with the ethnic identity in question, show them being persecuted and treated cruelly, and then build up a "warrior counter-narrative", about how historically one's people were independent and brave fighters, who didnt take shit from anyone.
Chechen history is very amenable to this kind of portrayal. The Chechens did resist the Mongol invasions - successfully, unlike the Russians to the north. The Chechens also fought a long and drawn out guerrilla war to avoid being absorbed into the Russian Empire - less successfully, though done well enough to earn the emnity of the Russian leadership for a very long time indeed. You then contrast that to the modern day situation of Chechnya and, well...
My understanding is that it's very much based on reforming a person's identity and also about gradually isolating them from people outside of the terrorist cell, which is in fact pretty much classically cultlike and also has a lot in common with abusive relationships.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 11, 2013, 02:31:19 PM
My understanding is that it's very much based on reforming a person's identity and also about gradually isolating them from people outside of the terrorist cell, which is in fact pretty much classically cultlike and also has a lot in common with abusive relationships.
Yes. However, the evidence for its use by terrorist cells is, well, virtually nonexistant.
I am quoting Marc Sageman here. He is a CIA consultant, but then, who isn't? He's also a forensic psychiatrist with a background of working in Afghanistan. He says:
Quote"The brainwashing thesis is a value-judgement about an ideology couched in a pseudo-scientific argument. [...] From a scientific perspective, five decades of research has failed to provide any empirical support for the thesis. Second, the biographical accounts of those explaining their embrace of the ideology fail to describe any coercive techniques leading to their final acceptance of the ideology."
Quote from: Cain on May 11, 2013, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 11, 2013, 02:31:19 PM
My understanding is that it's very much based on reforming a person's identity and also about gradually isolating them from people outside of the terrorist cell, which is in fact pretty much classically cultlike and also has a lot in common with abusive relationships.
Yes. However, the evidence for its use by terrorist cells is, well, virtually nonexistant.
I am quoting Marc Sageman here. He is a CIA consultant, but then, who isn't? He's also a forensic psychiatrist with a background of working in Afghanistan. He says:
Quote"The brainwashing thesis is a value-judgement about an ideology couched in a pseudo-scientific argument. [...] From a scientific perspective, five decades of research has failed to provide any empirical support for the thesis. Second, the biographical accounts of those explaining their embrace of the ideology fail to describe any coercive techniques leading to their final acceptance of the ideology."
One of the problems with the term "brainwashing" is that it isn't very well defined.
Very true.
However, in Sageman's case, there are alternative explanations which fit the known data better than brainwashing in almost all cases - namely, ideological affiliation, social affiliation, kinship and the infamous "bunch of guys" effect.
Quote from: Cain on May 11, 2013, 07:50:26 PM
Very true.
However, in Sageman's case, there are alternative explanations which fit the known data better than brainwashing in almost all cases - namely, ideological affiliation, social affiliation, kinship and the infamous "bunch of guys" effect.
Right, it's called the power of the group.
What's interesting is that the power of the group so closely mimics a dynamic that is selectively called "brainwashing" that it could be (and has been) argued that we call it "brainwashing" only when it applies to certain things, like fringe religions. Churches, clubs, fraternities (especially fraternities!) workplaces, Alcoholics Anonymous, cliques, and other social groups also have the power of the group, but they don't typically drink the Flav-R-Aid so the term "brainwashing" doesn't get applied to them.
Whether terrorist groups are cult-like really just depends on the definitions you're using, and how badly you want to defend a thesis. Are they fraternity-like? Some would say yes. And some would say that fraternities are cult-like.
But I do concede your point that they are not generally overtly coercive.
Yeah, I tend to have problems with definitions without coercion being involved, because, although it does sound potentially interesting, I think you obscure more than you reveal by calling such disparate behaviours brainwashing. I prefer lots of little tiny distinctions to overarching theoretical approaches, and that seems to be leading towards the latter.
Anyway.
It seems possible the Tsarnaev's may not have made their bombs at their Cambridge apartment, as has been claimed. See this (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cabbie-drove-tsarnaevs-bombs-article-1.1327880):
QuoteJim Duggan, 51, has been haunted since his close encounter with brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, thinking maybe he could have unwittingly thwarted the killer plot if he had just driven away.
He told the Daily News on Thursday that the brothers flagged him down April 14 outside a rapid-transit station in the Boston suburb of Malden.
"I tried to put their backpacks into the trunk, but they wouldn't let me touch them," Duggan said.
He drove the men to Cambridge, letting them out near Kendall Square — close to where they lived.
Duggan said the brothers gave him a $2 tip on a $38 fare. As he started to drive away, the the older brother, Tamerlan, 26, began pounding on his car and yelling at him to get his attention.
The taxi driver said he immediately stopped and popped the trunk. Before the brothers could stop him, he removed one of the backpacks, which he now suspects held a homemade pressure-cooker bomb used in the attack.
"I said to them, 'That's the most packed backpack I ever picked up,'" said Duggan, guessing the bag weighed about 20 pounds.
This could mean they had a bomb-making facility elsewhere, or it could mean there was another bombmaker.
There is a mystery drone (http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/10/faa-wont-tell-residents-of-ma-town-wha) that has been flying over Quincy, MA, since about 10 days after the Boston bombings. Related to the bombings? Maybe. The FAA apparently knows, but isn't telling anyone.
And the investigators are now trying to see if either of the brothers are linked to some strange murders in 2011 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/mounting-evidence-boston-bombers-involved-2011-triple-murder/story?id=19151271&singlePage=true#.UY00kSviojc). I suspect not, as it sounds gang/organised crime related. But then, 9/11 has a lot more to do with drugs that it initially seemed, and Uncle Ruslan is claimed to have links with a Chechen organised crime boss...as well as elements in Kazakhstan that straddle the line between Mafia and statesmen. Maybe Hopsicker will dig something up, he's very good when it comes to the drugs investigation angle.
I liked conspiracy theories better when they were less plausible and poorly researched. Can we go back to the ones about aliens who want to help us? That one was comforting.
(I have nothing of value to add, but this is really interesting. And fishy.)
This is creepy as fuck, which is probably why my brain insists on avoiding this thread. So I'm trying to read it as hard as possible, which is creeping me out. The fact that there's no direct narrative adds a shitload of credibility, to me at least.
Welcome to just another day in my life.
At the moment, I'm leaning towards a "blowback" scenario here, like 9/11 was in part. A bunch of wannabe Cold Warriors and classic Russophobes associated with the CIA wanted to continue running the "games"* they'd been playing in the late 90s. Maybe with official sanction, maybe without. Maybe covert orders to destabilize Russia are in effect, but this was an additional, off the books project. They look at radicalizing Chechens in the US, but instead of them getting ethno-nationalistic, they get global jihadist. By all accounts, Tamerlan was considered a try-hard by the groups he met in Dagestan. Maybe he was spurned by them to some degree. He decides to
show them all by attacking the USA - a reflex reaction for global jihadist types.
But I may be wrong.
*Three Days of the Condor is, as always, essential viewing:
QuoteTurner: Do we have plans to invade the Middle East?
Higgins: Are you crazy?
Turner: Am I?
Higgins: Look, Turner...
Turner: Do we have plans?
Higgins: No. Absolutely not. We have games. That's all. We play games. What if? How many men? What would it take? Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a regime? That's what we're paid to do.
Turner: So Atwood just took the games too seriously. He was really going to do it, wasn't he?
Higgins: A renegade operation. Atwood knew 54/12 would never authorize it, not with the heat on the company.
Turner: What if there hadn't been any heat? Suppose I hadn't stumbled on their plan?
Higgins: Different ballgame. Fact is, there was nothing wrong with the plan. Oh, the plan was all right, the plan would've worked.
Also, speaking of acts of public violence, there has been a shooting at a Mother's Day parade in New Orleans.
Quote from: BBCPolice Supt Ronal Serpas told reporters that three or four people required surgery but no deaths are reported.
The victims included a 10-year-old girl who suffered a minor wound, he added.
It is unclear what sparked the shooting, which happened in the city's 7th Ward on Sunday afternoon. Police say two or three suspects were seen fleeing the area.
Police said that, as well as the 12 people with gunshot wounds, one person was injured in the ensuing commotion.
The incident happened at about 14:00 (19:00 GMT) at the intersection of Frenchmen and Villere streets.
Supt Serpas said about 200 people were in the area at the time.
"It appears that these two or three people, just for a reason unknown to us, started shooting at, towards, or in the crowd," he said.
"It was over in just a couple of seconds."
The shooting happened at what is known as a second-line parade - a loose procession in which people dance down the street often following a brass band.
On a side not, Cain, am I right in thinking that the difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" lies solely in the politics of the person using the word, or is there some other distinguishing factor beyond "radicals we like" and "radicals we don't like"?
Quote from: Cain on May 13, 2013, 12:25:50 AM
Welcome to just another day in my life.
At the moment, I'm leaning towards a "blowback" scenario here, like 9/11 was in part. A bunch of wannabe Cold Warriors and classic Russophobes associated with the CIA wanted to continue running the "games"* they'd been playing in the late 90s. Maybe with official sanction, maybe without. Maybe covert orders to destabilize Russia are in effect, but this was an additional, off the books project. They look at radicalizing Chechens in the US, but instead of them getting ethno-nationalistic, they get global jihadist. By all accounts, Tamerlan was considered a try-hard by the groups he met in Dagestan. Maybe he was spurned by them to some degree. He decides to show them all by attacking the USA - a reflex reaction for global jihadist types.
But I may be wrong.
*Three Days of the Condor is, as always, essential viewing:
QuoteTurner: Do we have plans to invade the Middle East?
Higgins: Are you crazy?
Turner: Am I?
Higgins: Look, Turner...
Turner: Do we have plans?
Higgins: No. Absolutely not. We have games. That's all. We play games. What if? How many men? What would it take? Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a regime? That's what we're paid to do.
Turner: So Atwood just took the games too seriously. He was really going to do it, wasn't he?
Higgins: A renegade operation. Atwood knew 54/12 would never authorize it, not with the heat on the company.
Turner: What if there hadn't been any heat? Suppose I hadn't stumbled on their plan?
Higgins: Different ballgame. Fact is, there was nothing wrong with the plan. Oh, the plan was all right, the plan would've worked.
I'm also getting that feeling -- then again, my main source of actual information about the bombings is in this thread, so it may be your persuasive arguments.
I spent the day at UMass Dartmouth's Undergraduate Commencement yesterday. Predictably, the overall theme of every speaker, with the chancellor getting a special mention for her hard-on of the topic, was the "recent difficulties" on campus. Every attendee was given a UMass Dartmouth Strong pin as we entered, with examples as to what this means including the public safety dispatcher who recognized Dzhokar as a student.
The only speaker who I can't recall even mentioning all of it was the student speaker. It's almost like the students, who spent the the last several years working hard to achieve this milestone, wanted the occasion to be a celebratory recognition of the class rather than a half-assed message of defiant posturing based on the last month of their time there.
The topic of the day and major concern for the event was less of security than of weather. So, at least on this one local level, the bombers have had less of an effect on everyday life than a minor passing rainstorm.
Oh, and everyone I talked to that knows Brian Williams says he's a really nice guy. :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2013, 10:05:14 AM
On a side not, Cain, am I right in thinking that the difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" lies solely in the politics of the person using the word, or is there some other distinguishing factor beyond "radicals we like" and "radicals we don't like"?
Pretty much.
I mean, I suppose you could say a freedom fighter in theory limits themselves to military targets, and holds their organization to the same level of standards as a westernized military force...but most militaries dont respect noncombatants all that much.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 13, 2013, 02:24:44 PM
I'm also getting that feeling -- then again, my main source of actual information about the bombings is in this thread, so it may be your persuasive arguments.
I'm getting most of my information from the Boston Globe, Guardian, Telegraph and NYT, mixed in with my pre-existing knowledge of the Chechen situation, how the CIA conducts itself and Islamic extremism generally.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324244304578475300856008018.html?mod=wsj_streaming_stream
Things Russia knew but did not pass on to US intelligence:
Quote(Possibly) that Canadian alleged extremist William Plotnikov –whom Russia killed last July — had implicated Tamerlan as an associate in 2010
The original tip from the FSB provided incorrect birth dates for Tamerlan
FSB provided no response to three requests for more information from FBI
Texts from Tamerlan's mother telling another relative he'd be interested in joining jihad
Details from Tamerlan's trip to Russia in which FSB alleges he met with militants
And maybe I was wrong to dismiss the recent CIA spy story out of Moscow:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323716304578482660056321772.html?mod=itp
QuoteMr. Fogle had been trying to recruit a Russian intelligence services officer responsible for fighting Islamist terrorists in Russia's Caucasus region, the Federal Security Service said.
So the Russians aint exactly looking squeaky clean in this story either.
I doubt anyone is. Seems to me like different factions were pushing the kid towards jihad, for different reasons.
The Russians may have figured he intended an attack in America, and decided that allowing it to proceed would do more harm to the Chechen cause than a mere attempted attack.
Well, look at that.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57584771/boston-bombings-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-left-note-in-boat-he-hid-in-sources-say/
QuoteBoston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev left a note claiming responsibility for the April 13 attack on the Boston Marathon, reports CBS News senior correspondent John Miller.
Sources tell Miller that Tsarnaev wrote the note in the boat he was hiding in as police pursued him, and as he bled from gunshot wounds sustained in an earlier shootout between police and his older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev. It reads as part manifesto, part suicide note, and part justification for the killing and maiming of innocent civilians.
The note — scrawled with a marker on the interior wall of the cabin — said the bombings were retribution for U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, and called the Boston victims "collateral damage" in the same way Muslims have been in the American-led wars. "When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims," Tsarnaev wrote.
I suppose that solves any problems that could arise from having questioned someone while doped up.
This (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/america-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-wrote-boat-officials/story?id=19193153#.UZVUHyvirqB) is unusual, though.
QuoteThe discovery of writings intensified tensions between the FBI and local police when FBI agents believed some Boston officers and state police had taken cell phone pictures of the writing.
Agents demanded the phones of all officers at the scene the night of the capture of Dzhokhar be confiscated to avoid the photos becoming public before being used as evidence at trial, according to two law enforcement officials.
A FBI spokesperson said agents cannot confiscate phones without a warrant and officials said none of the police approached would agree to turn over their phones to the FBI.
If the FBI documented the scene properly, the photos shouldn't be a big issue. Sure, tainted jury blah blah blah, but let's face it, the High Value Interrogation Group leaks are doing that
anyway.
That's awfully... convenient.
Interesting (http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/whistleblower-al-qaeda-chief-u-s-asset/), if true:
QuoteWhile the reality of Gladio's existence in Europe is a matter of historical record, Edmonds contended the same strategy was adopted by the Pentagon in the 1990s in a new theatre of operations, namely, Asia. "Instead of using neo-Nazis, they used mujahideen working under various bin Ladens, as well as al-Zawahiri", she said.
The last publicly known Gladio meeting occurred in NATO's Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) in Brussels in 1990. While Italy was a focal point for the older European operations, Edmonds said that Turkey and Azerbaijan served as the main conduits for a completely new, different set of operations in Asia using veterans of the anti-Soviet campaign in Afghanistan, the so-called "Afghan Arabs" that had been trained by al-Qaeda.
These new Pentagon-led operations were codenamed 'Gladio B' by FBI counterintelligence: "In 1997, NATO asked [Egyptian President] Hosni Mubarak to release from prison Islamist militants affiliated to Ayman al-Zawahiri [whose role in the assassination of Anwar Sadat led to Mubarak's ascension]. They were flown under U.S. orders to Turkey for [training and use in] operations by the Pentagon", she said.
Azerbaijan was heavily, if unofficially, involved in sustaining the Chechen jihad. Azerbaijan's post-Soviet leadership also had ties to the original Gladio in Turkey - the Grey Wolves of the MHP. Said leadership turned to the "Afghan Arabs", to use them as special forces and infiltrators in their war against Georgia.
I would not be surprised if Gladio B were still running, or had moved onto Gladio C or even D in the wake of 9/11 and the subsequent phases of the War on Terror. But the evidence is...rather thinner than that which exists for the original Gladio.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/22/18418012-man-with-ties-to-boston-bombing-suspect-shot-during-fbi-questioning?lite
QuoteOfficials say FBI agents were questioning Todashev on Tuesday. He was cooperative at first, they say, but late Tuesday night, he attacked the agent, who shot and killed him.
The officials say Todashev had some connections with radical Chechen rebels, but they say it's not clear whether he had any role in radicalizing Tsarnaev.
"We are currently responding to a shooting incident involving an FBI special agent," FBI Special Agent Dave Couvertier said in a statement to NBC News.
"The incident occurred in Orlando, Florida. The agent encountered the suspect while conducting official duties," Couvertier said. "We do not have any further details at this time. We expect to have more information later this morning."
Fucking clowns. I can guess how many "Further details" are going to be released willingly.
The FBI is going to find itself on a terrorist watchlist at this rate. They certainly seem to be acting like that to the populace at large.
I definitely want those "further details" on this shooting.
Holy fuck. Just when I was thinking they'd stooped as low as they could go with gitmo concentration camp and drone strike terrorism, now we have summary executions on home turf. Judge Dredd eat yer heart out :lulz:
If you shoot all the suspects in a case you are bound to get the people responsible. Good job guys.
Quote from: Faust on May 22, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
If you shoot all the suspects in a case you are bound to get the people responsible. Good job guys.
Actually you have a pile of rotting meat and no way of finding out if one of them is the bad guy or if he's still out there. Or shooting the suspects.
Unarmed suspect in custody "attacks" an agent, who is "forced to shoot and kill him".
:horrormirth:
Considering how useful guns are in hand-to-hand combat, I would say that the possibility that Todashev knew things that the FBI didn't want made public and decided to make sure he never told anyone is a much more probable scenario.
Quote from: Faust on May 22, 2013, 04:06:23 PM
If you shoot all the suspects in a case you are bound to get the people responsible. Good job guys.
And! Shortly before his outburst he confessed to another unsolved murde. That wraps that little problem up. Talk about killing two birds with one stone.
More info:
http://m.clickorlando.com/news/fbi-involved-in-fatal-shooting-near-universal-orlando/-/16721250/20249584/-/15quxngz/-/index.html
QuoteThe FBI said Ibragim Todashev was shot and killed just after midnight at 6022 Peregrine Avenue in the Windhover Apartments near Universal Orlando.
"The agent encountered the suspect while conducting official duties. The suspect is deceased," FBI Special Agent Dave Couvertier told Local 6.
John Miller, the former FBI assistant director who now works for CBS News, said the FBI was trying to re-question Todashev at his apartment when "something went wrong." Miller said the FBI agent fired shots, but details of the incident have not yet been released and it's not known if Todashev had a gun.
http://www.fbi.gov/boston/press-releases/2013/fbi-boston-divisions-response-to-shooting-incident-in-orlando-florida
QuoteThe FBI is currently reviewing a shooting incident involving an FBI special agent. Based on preliminary information, the incident occurred in Orlando, Florida during the early morning hours of May 22, 2013. The agent, two Massachusetts State Police troopers, and other law enforcement personnel were interviewing an individual in connection with the Boston Marathon bombing investigation when a violent confrontation was initiated by the individual. During the confrontation, the individual was killed and the agent sustained non-life threatening injuries. As this incident is under review, we have no further details at this time.
Things of note:
He was being interviewed
again. So what changed between the last interview and this one, which resulted in a corpse?
He was at his apartment when being questioned, not at a station or in a holding cell. What is the standard FBI interview protocol here? I've tried looking, but found nothing so far.
"Other law enforcement personnel". Who? Is that FBI-speak for the spooks of the High Value Interrogation Unit?
None of this is conclusive of anything, yet. But it's certainly worth keeping an eye on.
The FBI turning up on your doorstep with a mob in tow would make most people nervous.
Got to wonder if the reason they were there with so many people is the more the merrier to corroborate the story.
Eyewitness accounts are usually iffy and have minor discrepancies (Being generous) but I'll bet the statements from everyone here are almost photocopies.
Crazy outside speculation - Russia's involved somehow.
QuoteFBI sources say Ibragim Todashev, a friend of accused Boston Marathon bomber Tamarlen Tsarnaev, was unarmed when he was shot and killed by an FBI agent during questioning at an Orlando apartment last week.
Sources said Todashev might have been lunging toward a sword, but he was not in possession of it.
[...]
Sources said a sword was inside the apartment, but the weapon was moved to the corner of the room before questioning began.
http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/orange-county/sources-ibragim-todashev-was-unarmed-when-fbi-agent-killed-him/-/12978032/20342572/-/i2ok9h/-/index.html
NOTHING SUSPICIOUS HERE, MOVE ALONG
\
:remaincalm:
I routinely shoot people seven times, including once in the head, after they confess to a triple killing, because I think they might be reaching for a sword. Safety first. Dude was clearly dangerous.
Oh, and according to this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/officials-man-who-knew-boston-bomber-was-unarmed-when-shot/2013/05/29/21f05b74-c8a8-11e2-9f1a-1a7cdee20287_story.html), all the other law enforcement personnel left the room just before Todashev had suicidal urges involving a sword.
Do they normally kill spooks or no?
Quote from: stelz on May 30, 2013, 09:19:28 PM
Do they normally kill spooks or no?
The FBI does have previous for applying shotgun to face where Muslims are involved.
Also recall FBI training was, for several years, conducted by Christian extremists who painted Islam in a...very unfavourable light.
Quote from: Cain on May 30, 2013, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: stelz on May 30, 2013, 09:19:28 PM
Do they normally kill spooks or no?
The FBI does have previous for applying shotgun to face where Muslims are involved.
Also recall FBI training was, for several years, conducted by Christian extremists who painted Islam in a...very unfavourable light.
That makes COINTELPRO look like the good old days. :x :x :x
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/09/fbi-islam-domination/all/
QuoteFollowing months of denials, the FBI is now promising a "comprehensive review of all training and reference materials" after Danger Room revealed a series of Bureau presentations that tarred average Muslims as "radical" and "violent."
But untangling the Islamophobic thread woven into the FBI's counterterrorism training culture won't be easy. In addition to inflammatory seminars which likened Islam to the Death Star and Mohammed to a "cult leader," Danger Room has obtained more material showing just how wide the anti-Islam meme has spread throughout the Bureau.
The FBI library at Quantico currently stacks books from authors who claim that "Islam and democracy are totally incompatible." The Bureau's private intranet recently featured presentations that claimed to demonstrate the "inherently violent nature of Islam," according to multiple sources. Earlier this year, the Bureau's Washington Field Office welcomed a speaker who claimed Islamic law prevents Muslims from being truly loyal Americans. And as recently as last week, the online orientation material for the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Forces included claims that Sunni Islam seeks "domination of the world," according to a law enforcement source.
That's just...surreal in its level of FUCKED UP.
I mean, these guys have SEEN actual Muslims, right? How do you reconcile people you see every day with a bunch of crap like that?
Quote from: stelz on May 30, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
That's just...surreal in its level of FUCKED UP.
I mean, these guys have SEEN actual Muslims, right? How do you reconcile people you see every day with a bunch of crap like that?
Ever hear barstool heroes talk about "libruls"?
Does THEIR description connect in any way with actual liberals?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 30, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
Quote from: stelz on May 30, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
That's just...surreal in its level of FUCKED UP.
I mean, these guys have SEEN actual Muslims, right? How do you reconcile people you see every day with a bunch of crap like that?
Ever hear barstool heroes talk about "libruls"?
Does THEIR description connect in any way with actual liberals?
Well yeah, but they're drunk retarded yahoos.
I thought you needed more than a room temperature IQ to get into the FBI.
Guess I was wrong. :x
More Obama ricin letter mischief
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57586863/new-possible-ricin-letter-sent-to-obama/
QuoteA letter addressed to President Obama that may have been contaminated with the deadly toxin ricin is similar to two ricin-laced letters recently sent to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the Secret Service said Thursday.
A screening facility for mail sent to the White House intercepted the recent letter sent to Mr. Obama, Secret Service spokesman Edwin Donovan said. The letter has been turned over to the FBI's joint terrorism task force for testing and investigation.
CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports that the letter was postmarked from Shreveport, La.
Shreveport was also the postmark for the two contaminated letters sent to Bloomberg in New York and his gun-control group in Washington.
Kushen Taramov, friend of Todashev who was himself interviewed at Todashev's flat shortly before his killing, says five people were present at the interview. One FBI man, two Mass. state police troopers, and two other, unidentified personnel.
The initial FBI statement strongly implied five or more people were present, when it said "The agent, two Massachusetts State Police troopers, and other law enforcement personnel were interviewing an individual in connection with the Boston Marathon bombing investigation when a violent confrontation was initiated by the individual."
Now, however, AP, the NYT, and CBS are all saying that only three people were conducting the interviews.
This stinks to high heaven.
Those witness transcripts are going to be a fucking hoot.
When you're arguing about shit like how many people in the room,there's no fucking chance that anyone saw anything ever. At all.
If you're not subscribed to NSFWCorp already, you should be:
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/prisoners-of-the-caspian-part-one/
QuoteWe've had two deadly jihadi attacks in this country since the start of the new century: 9/11 and the Boston Marathon. In both cases, Washington's highly-politicized position on Chechen separatists played a key role in making it harder for FBI agents to prevent those attacks from happening.
The entrenched idea that Chechen separatists have not and do not engage in jihadi terrorism; that they pose no threat to the West; and that anyone who thinks or says otherwise should be distrusted — these false premises have framed a dangerously misguided policy in which Chechen radicals have been protected and nurtured — at the expense of American lives. The neocons, the same crowd that suckered Americans into invading Iraq, played a front-and-center role in whitewashing Chechen jihadi terrorism, and defining our disastrous policies in the Caucasus. The Boston Marathon bombings are, in no small part, blowback from the neocon love affair with Chechen terrorism.
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/prisoners-of-the-caspian-part-two/
Quoten 1995, Basayev's guerrillas took control over Budyonnovsk, a city of 60,000 about 50 miles north of Chechnya's border. The Chechen guerrillas stormed into the town's city center in KamAZ trucks, fired their weapons and ran through the city center, herding up to 1,800 Russian hostages into a city hospital, which they rigged up with mines. Some hostages were executed in cold blood to keep the others in line; others were forced to stand in front of the windows as human shields. At times, the TV news cameras would film a limp, lifeless Russian body dumped out of a hospital window, onto the ground below, as terrified hostages waved torn white sheets from inside.
One Russian hostage, a pregnant 18-year-old woman named Natalya Ageykina, told reporters how her captors forced her at gunpoint to stand in front of a window while the Chechen rebels fired from behind her. As Russian special forces outside fired back, her Chechens captors taunted her: "We are going to watch your own soldiers killing you." She was shot twice, and survived.
In all, over 130 hostages were killed. The commander of that raid, Shamil Basayev, awed the Western journalists who watched him fight off Russian commandoes and somehow make it back safely into Chechnya, to a hero's welcome. In the aftermath, most of the Western anger and outrage was aimed at Russians, whom they accused of brutality and of placing little value on human life.
Quote"Body parts were regularly sawed off of people, including little girls and boys, on videotape. Then the videotapes were sent to their families along with the severed body parts. Such things were common and frequent occurrences throughout those three years. There were places in Chechnya where dozens of victims were kept in small cages, like animals. Many people were chained, sometimes by their necks in tiny dark holes. I know someone who was kept in Chechen cellar with a couple inches of water entirely covering the floor. These things happened to some of my friends.... Also, it happened to a lot of people that I don't know. When I was in Dagestan in 1998 it seemed that nearly every apartment building, sometimes nearly every stairwell, had someone who had been kidnapped, beaten and tortured in Chechnya. That was certainly true of my apartment building."
QuoteAt the "slave market" it was possible, not only to negotiate the sale, purchase, and exchange operations, but also to secure a so-called "trademark." Well- known group leaders and field commanders accepted responsibility for abductions that might be committed a thousand kilometers from Chechnya. All the subsequent talks were conducted in that commander's name, and should the operation be successful, he would take a percentage of the ransom "for lending his trademark." By using the name of a field commander notorious for his cruelty, a kidnapper of lesser renown could cover his tracks and also demand a larger ransom.
The best-known "trademarks" were often used by groups within Chechnya. The most notorious case culminated in the murder of four engineers, three Britons and one New Zealander, in 1998 as a result of clashes between Chechen groups over a "trademark." The kidnappers had used Arbi Barayev's name in a prior operation, obtained the ransom, and returned the hostage to his family. Barayev, who had consented to the use of his name in the talks, demanded his share of the ransom for the use of his "trademark" but never got it. Barayev's group then abducted the four foreigners and claimed a ransom of $10 million for them. Chechen Telecom, the organization that had invited the foreign engineers to Chechnya, agreed to pay, but Barayev unexpectedly refused to release them and beheaded them instead. There's a popular version that some third party [i.e., Bin Laden — M.A.] had interfered and paid Barayev more for the heads of the engineers.
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/prisoners-of-the-caspian-part-three/
Quotesing a fake passport under a fake name — "Mr. Amin" — Zawahiri and his two Egyptian jihadi cohorts met up with a group of Chechens near the border with the Russian republic of Dagestan. The Chechens promised to guide Zawahiri through Dagestan, and into Chechnya. But as soon as they crossed over the Azeri-Russian border, Zawahiri was arrested by local Dagestani police, and handed over to the FSB.
The FSB locked Zawahiri and his two Egyptian jihadis in a jail in Dagestan while they investigated who "Mr. Amin" really was, and why they had come there. At the same time in Dagestan, radical Salafi Islam was spreading throughout the republic, particularly on the border with Chechnya. Its popularity was a result of rampant domestic corruption and unemployment, the violence in Chechnya, and funding from outside the region (primarily the Gulf states) and from foreign jihadi radicals like the Saudi-born Ibn al-Khattab.
The FSB suspected that Zawahiri was hiding his real reason for coming, and that the reason was jihad. But thanks to the intervention of rich, powerful forces, the FSB was blocked from conducting a full investigation into Zawahiri's true identity and intentions (sound familiar?). As the Wall Street Journal reported, Zawahiri had some powerful guardian angels looking after him:
QuoteThe Russian investigators and a lawyer who defended the trio were puzzled by a groundswell of support for them from local Islamic organizations. These included groups that had embraced the fundamentalist form of Islam known as Wahhabism and received funding from Saudi Arabia, where the sect emerged two centuries ago. Twenty-six clerics signed an appeal for release of the three "merchants." One local Muslim accused a Russian investigator of doing "the devil's work" by detaining the three.
A member of Russia's parliament, Nadyr Khachiliev, who had founded a group called the Muslim Union of Russia, wrote to Dagestan's highest court that the three "businessmen" had come to "study the market for food trade" and should be freed. Mr. Khachiliev, a wiry former boxer linked by the police to a string of violent attacks, denies any tie to extremism. Interviewed in his gothic brick mansion in Makhachkala, its outer wall and metal door pock-marked from gunfire, Mr. Khachiliev today says he can't recall any imprisoned Arabs.
The name "Nadyr Khachiliev" —also spelled "Khachilaev" as other media have spelled it — is back in the news, this time involving Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The radical Salafist mosque in Makhachkala on Kotrova Street that Tamerlan regularly attended last year is also known as the "Khachilaev Mosque" — named after the same Khachilaev who sprang Al Qaeda's current leader from his Dagestan jail.
In 1998, a year after he freed Zawahiri from jail, Khachilaev — founder of the Union of Muslims in Russia — became a wanted man after he and his brother raised an army of 200 gunmen and stormed Dagestan's main government building in the capital Makhachkala. The Russian Duma stripped Khachilaev of his parliamentary immunity, and he fled into Chechnya. Khachilaev had long pushed for unifying Chechnya and Dagestan into a single Islamic Emirate on the Caspian Sea coast — the same goal pursued by other jihadi radicals including Khattab, Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov.
In 2000, just as his mosque was being built on Kotrova Street, Khachilaev was arrested and put on trial in Makhachkala, in what locals called "The Trial of the Century." He was convicted, and then swiftly pardoned on the promise that he would give up radical Islamic activism. That same year, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev moved to Makhachkala, Dagestan with their family from Kyrgyzstan.
Two years later, in 2002, Khachilaev was arrested over the IED bombing of a Russian convoy in Makhachkala that left seven Russian soldiers dead. In 2003, Khachilaev was gunned down in a hail of bullets. That same year, Tamerlan joined his brother and family in Boston, where they were granted political asylum.
When the media learned that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had spent the first six months of 2012 in Makhachkala, the big question everyone wanted answered was: Did Tamerlan frequent the infamous "Khachilaev Mosque" on Kotrova Street? The mosque that Khachilaev founded and built before his murder had become a magnet for Dagestani and Chechen terrorists over the past decade. For example, the jihadis who had set off the deadly bombing at a 2002 May Day parade in southern Dagestan, killing over 40 and scattering limbs around the parade grounds, were discovered hiding in the "Khachilaev Mosque."
Finally it was confirmed: Yes, Tamerlan had frequented the "Khachilaev Mosque" — the radical Salafi mosque founded by the Al Qaeda leader's local savior.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/01/representative-william-keating-says-russian-officials-were-forthcomng-bombings-fbi-has-been-quiet/USMYNeWPuCIgVkzBF5iEIL/story.html
QuoteKeating said that Ibragim Todashev, the 27-year-old friend of Tsarnaev who was shot and killed by an FBI agent in Orlando on May 22, was mentioned by name in intelligence exchanges between US and Russian officials on April 21. The nature of that citation, he said, remains unclear.
Well, the American press and commentariat seem to have decided who is morally responsible for the Boston Bombings: Putin.
According to no less than five different sources I've read just today, Putin is a scheming, Machiavellian bastard who is playing the American public like a chessboard.
Yes, the FSB are overstating just how helpful they were to American agencies. Yes the FSB kept the full extent of their surveillance against the Tsarnaev's, and the sources of their information, quiet.
But at the same time, does anyone remember what happened the last time radical Islamists carried out a successful attack in the USA? Oh yes, America attacked the secular dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. Maybe, just maybe, Putin is overstating how helpful the FSB were because he has an appreciation for how the American political machine "thinks"....which is to say, it does not when the opportunity to use force presents itself.
Incidentally, all those neocons and shifty private intelligence and oil and gas firms who had a role in stoking the Chechen conflict and, it would seem, the radicalization of the Tsarnaev's? Not a word.
Just more evidence that when anything bad happens, and Russia is somehow involved, Putin is obviously to blame. The American Left had Bush Derangement Syndrome, and the American Right suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome, but it seems America as a whole suffers from Putin Derangement Syndrome.
Oh the lengths America will go to inflate the price of gasoline.
Cain, what do you make of this? Really dead or no?
http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/24-05-2013/124656-boston_terrorist_fbi_agents_killed-0/
QuoteThe FBI agents, who eliminated Boston terrorist Tamerlan Tsarnaev, died as they fell out of a helicopter, the press service of the FBI said.
...
An official statement from the FBI says that special agents Christopher Lorek and Stephen Shaw fell out of a helicopter while training a complex exercise. The agents were supposed to be lowered on a rope on a ship from a helicopter. For yet unknown reasons, the two agents fell out of the helicopter and were killed in the fall.
Timing certainly looks bad, and I would lean towards actually dead.
I'm basing that on the FBI looking a bit gung-ho of late, so not following procedures resulting in fatalities during training does not seem in the realms of the impossible.
So taking the stance of "Dead", how likely is it that this is an accident? Given the overall situation, I would suspect if it was not a fall from a helicopter, it would have been a diving/driving/ accident or the like. Something where a simple fuck-up can kill you and it's also pretty easy to sabotage.
Or these highly trained and qualified agents were both stupid enough to fall out of a fucking helicopter.
Fuck, I'm struggling to balance potential/probable idiocy against potential/probable conspiracy. Fucking humanity, too much of both everywhere.
FYI, Pravda is not in any way a reliable news source. It's funnier than it was under Communism, but that is about all that has changed.
They are dead, but the FBI is being typically tight-lipped about the nature of the training accident that occured.
Thanks. Strange that it was both of them. And now.
I probably need to let it go before I end up at Infowars or something. :x
Wait, what?
Ok, I'm not one for CT-jumping, but what the fuck? How is this not in the least bit suspicious?
Oh, it is. It may still be a genuine accident, I don't have enough information to pass judgement.
Who what how where why still applies though.
What would be the motive in killing them, who would gain from it and how did they do it, if it was indeed more than just an accident. Were they involved in the wider investigation, or did they just participate in the lockdown shootout with Tamerlan? We know officers involved in that lied about how heavily armed he was...but that's hardly enough reason to kill someone.
Ok.... Point. Taking into account the prior of murder as reality rather than fiction does require a lot to shift.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on June 06, 2013, 05:44:40 PM
Wait, what?
Ok, I'm not one for CT-jumping, but what the fuck? How is this not in the least bit suspicious?
SAY IT WITH ME:
ONE MAN, ACTING ALONE, KILLED JOHN F KENNEDY.
ONE MAN, ACTING ALONE, KILLED JOHN F KENNEDY.
ONE MAN, ACTING ALONE, KILLED JOHN F KENNEDY.
Does anyone have a second source, or a confirmation that these two guys were the ones who capped the kid?
NSA is culling Verizon phone records. ALL of them.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/verizon-phone-records-secretly-collected-feds-report/story?id=19337223
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on June 07, 2013, 01:11:57 AM
Does anyone have a second source, or a confirmation that these two guys were the ones who capped the kid?
Yes. MSNBC, ABC and the FBI press statement all confirm they were involved in the operation which killed Tamerlan.
Thanks, man.
First thing I did when I saw it was Pravda was put the names of the agents into Google. Pravda is not a reliable site, which unfortunately does not mean they only post unreliable stories.
Stella, I don't think the Verizon warrant is related to this, though I could be wrong.
Quote from: Cain on June 07, 2013, 03:09:31 PM
First thing I did when I saw it was Pravda was put the names of the agents into Google. Pravda is not a reliable site, which unfortunately does not mean they only post unreliable stories.
Stella, I don't think the Verizon warrant is related to this, though I could be wrong.
It's not. They'll use it for an excuse, though.
Well.
Well well well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341
QuoteOne of the brothers suspected of carrying out the Boston bombings was in possession of right-wing American literature in the run-up to the attack, BBC Panorama has learnt.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev subscribed to publications espousing white supremacy and government conspiracy theories.
He also had reading material on mass killings.
Until now the Tsarnaev brothers were widely perceived as just self-styled radical jihadists.
Panorama has spent months speaking exclusively with friends of the bombers to try to understand the roots of their radicalisation.
'Government conspiracies'
The programme discovered that Tamerlan Tsarnaev possessed articles which argued that both 9/11 and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies.
Another in his possession was about "the rape of our gun rights".
Reading material he had about white supremacy commented that "Hitler had a point".
Tamerlan Tsarnaev also had literature which explored what motivated mass killings and noted how the perpetrators murdered and maimed calmly.
Oh, shit.
Quote from: Cain on August 05, 2013, 05:00:10 PM
Well.
Well well well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341
QuoteOne of the brothers suspected of carrying out the Boston bombings was in possession of right-wing American literature in the run-up to the attack, BBC Panorama has learnt.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev subscribed to publications espousing white supremacy and government conspiracy theories.
He also had reading material on mass killings.
Until now the Tsarnaev brothers were widely perceived as just self-styled radical jihadists.
Panorama has spent months speaking exclusively with friends of the bombers to try to understand the roots of their radicalisation.
'Government conspiracies'
The programme discovered that Tamerlan Tsarnaev possessed articles which argued that both 9/11 and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies.
Another in his possession was about "the rape of our gun rights".
Reading material he had about white supremacy commented that "Hitler had a point".
Tamerlan Tsarnaev also had literature which explored what motivated mass killings and noted how the perpetrators murdered and maimed calmly.
I'm dying to know what Fox News will say when they cover this in depth.
I seem to recall some shit about infowars being in the reading material list, other such quality literature too.
QuoteTheir friends wouldn't all speak openly because they were afraid of being wrongly viewed as associated with terrorism.
'Mike' spent a lot of time in the brothers' flat.
"He (Tamerlan) just didn't like America. He felt like America was just basically attacking all Middle Eastern countries...you know trying to take their oil."
"Mike" seems unaware that he is already under constant surveillance. It's a little unfortunate that none of the friends went on record. Understandable, but I was hoping for one or two to be angry/dumb enough. The BBC will name names in a second if asked anyway so it's fair to assume that anyone who collaborated in the Panorama Piece is on a watch-list for the foreseeable future.
Despite the new info it seems "They" are still pushing the Jihadist angle hard. I bet I know which comes up more in court.
The BBC article still gives greater credence, at least going by line count, to the Islamist explanation.
But the two are not entirely incompatible. The far-right and Islamist militants both see the US government as their enemy, after all. And there is, for example in France, evidence of alliances between the two groups. And ideologically speaking, elements of Islamic extremism work quite well with the far right, both of the fascist and libertarian variety.
It begs the question of if this shit will come up in court. Probably not, it would seem far too much effort to explain the particular nuances of the case when you already have a confession. I think the one notable thing about the eventual trial will be the speed it happens at in all areas.
Which makes me think a little about that "special interrogation unit". Did/would/do they make promises they can't/won't keep to get the intel and confession? Probably. Is there some kind of shaky legal justification for that? Probably. Does anyone want that shit looked at closely in court? Probably not.
It's much simpler to cast the die as "Muslim Radical". It would also explain the hissy fit people pitched over that rolling stone cover. Not like there's any large media organisations "working closely" with governments.
Err
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/06/23/was-tamerlan-tsarnaev-a-double-agent-recruited-by-the-fbi/
QuoteAmid the swirl of mysteries surrounding the alleged Boston bombers, one fact, barely touched upon in the mainstream U.S. media, stands out: There is a strong possibility that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older of the two brothers, was a double agent, perhaps recruited by the FBI.
If Tsarnaev was a double agent, he would be just one of thousands of young people coerced by the FBI, as the price for settling a minor legal problem, into a dangerous career as an informant.
That he was so coerced is the easiest explanation for two seemingly incompatible incidents in his life:
The first is that he returned to Russia in 2012, ostensibly to renew his Russian passport so he could file an application for US citizenship.
The second is that Tsarnaev then jeopardized his citizenship application with conspicuous, provocative — almost theatrical — behavior that seemed more caricature than characteristic of a Muslim extremist.
Again, the media stuns me to silence on days like this.
-
You can get deported for talking to the press?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 03:05:48 PM
You can get deported for talking to the press?
War on Journalism, dontcha know?
-
Ah, yes. The old "there are hundreds of unenforced laws on the books, lets find one" routine.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 07, 2013, 07:31:36 AM
Almost two weeks old, but still relevant (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/intelligence-report-boston-marathon-bombing-delayed-indefinitely/story?id=20321254):
QuoteIntelligence Report on Boston Marathon Bombing Delayed Indefinitely
Intelligence community watchdogs are extending their review of what the U.S. government knew beforehand about two brothers accused of carrying out the deadly April 15 Boston Marathon bombings, according to a government letter obtained by ABC News.
The joint letter from four inspectors general addressed to congressional committees that oversee national security, dated Friday, said their final report on what intel agencies knew about Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev before they allegedly used two bombs to kill three people and injure more than 260 others won't be finished this month, as anticipated.
To which I can only say, "hmmm".....
So they don't really want us to know what they knew.
-
-
:lulz: :lulz:
More info on Tamerlan
http://www.bostonglobe.com/Page/Boston/2011-2020/WebGraphics/Metro/BostonGlobe.com/2013/12/15tsarnaev/tsarnaev.html
QuoteTamerlan Tsarnaev first heard the voice when he was a young man.
It came to him at unexpected times, an internal rambling that he alone could hear. Alarmed, he confided to his mother that the voice "felt like two people inside of me."
As he got older, the voice became more authoritative, its bidding more insistent. Tamerlan confided in a close friend that the voice had begun to issue orders and to require him to perform certain acts, though he never told his friend specifically what those acts were.
"He was torn between those two people," said Donald Larking, 67, who attended the mosque with Tamerlan for nearly two years. "He said that several times. And he did not like it."
Federal investigators have suspected that Tamerlan, the 26-year-old boxer from southern Russia who is believed, along with his brother, to have set off the deadly Boston Marathon bombs in April, was motivated, if not deliberately directed, by real life jihadist revolutionaries on the other side of the globe. But an investigation by the Boston Globe suggests that Tamerlan was in the perilous grip of someone far more menacing: himself.
The Globe corroborated with several people who knew him just how plagued Tamerlan felt by the inner voices. Some family acquaintances feared for his mental health, among them a doctor concerned it could be schizophrenia.
QuoteLarking and Tamerlan, who met when Tamerlan visited his mother at work, took an immediate liking to one another and shared their views on conspiracy theory and American politics. Larking loaned his young friend copies of a newspaper he reads, "The Sovereign, newspaper of the Resistance!' ", which suggests that US military explosives were used in the World Trade Center attack. But Larking found that Tamerlan had strong political views of his own. He did not, for example, approve of President Obama's use of drones in foreign conflicts or what he considered the US government's expansive foreign policy.
"He felt the US should not get involved in other people's affairs and should stick to its own business," said Larking. "He did not like the country's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq at all."
As their relationship grew closer, Tamerlan confided in Larking his troubling secret about the voice inside his head. Tamerlan told him that he had been hearing the voice for some time, and that he had a theory of what might be afflicting him.
"He believed in majestic mind control, which is a way of breaking down a person and creating an alternative personality with which they must coexist," explained Larking. "You can give a signal, a phrase or a gesture, and bring out the alternate personality and make them do things. Tamerlan thought someone might have done that to him."
The person inside him, as Tamerlan described it to Larking, "was someone who wanted to control him to make him do something."
QuoteLarking, too, found his young friend changed in several ways on his return. Much more serious than he had been, Tamerlan insisted that Larking grow a beard, "to honor the prophet Mohammed." Larking complied. He also pressed Larking to remove his wedding ring, saying that most Muslims did not wear gold, but Larking refused. The last time Larking and Tamerlan sat together in the rear of the mosque, Tamerlan once again mentioned the voices in his head. This time, as Larking recalled it, he seemed afraid.
"He said, 'Someone is in my brain, telling me stuff to do,' " recalled Larking. "He said he was trying to ignore it but it was hard to do. Whatever it was he was being told to do, he didn't want to do it."
Of course, it has to be remembered that Larking himself is probably not a reliable source, and he may be interpreting events through his own worldview, which is not exactly in sync with everyone else. In fact, I find Larking somewhat suspicious...I'm well enough versed in conspiracy literature to know that the supposed mind-control program is "Monarch", whereas "Majestic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12)" is from UFO lore. Seems a rather odd error for Tamerlan or Larking to make, given their interests.
Though not related to the voices, this is interesting too:
QuoteSo, too, Tamerlan's anger over America's foreign policy in Afghanistan and Iraq had escalated several notches. At home, he railed angrily about Muslims being killed overseas. When he talked on the phone to associates overseas, and even to friends and his brother in the apartment, he often spoke in Russian, far more than he ever had before. When Katie asked why, Tamerlan said the people he was talking to did not speak English.
Completely un-related: Harvard was evacuated because of a possible explosive this morning.
Hrm, interesting stuff there....
The DoJ has confirmed it is seeking the death penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
It is likely this is an inducement to a plea bargain, but still...
Hear about this last night.
So now we engage in the "vengance" debates, and only mention in passing that it costs three times as much to put a prisoner to death than life in prison does.
I prefer the vengeance debate, to be honest. At least it makes sense.
Arguing over whether it's cheaper to let a man live or die as if it's a determining factor is worse, IMO. It's trying to reduce justice to economics, which is about as big as a category error as possible.
That's a good point.
And I've just fallen for the same line of thinking in that other thread about Utah, and justifying treating humans decently as an economic thing.
If the voices in your head tell you to do crazy shit, you tell them to fuck off!
I mean, I know they sometimes scream at you for hours and all, but eventually they will shut up if you don't listen.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 31, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
That's a good point.
And I've just fallen for the same line of thinking in that other thread about Utah, and justifying treating humans decently as an economic thing.
It happens to everyone, from time to time. We're caught up in societies which do justify a lot of things on the basis of economic utility, and sometimes that isn't always a bad thing. I mean, in the case of the death penalty, it's an additional data point in favour of abolition. But it certainly shouldn't form the majority of the argument.
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 31, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
If the voices in your head tell you to do crazy shit, you tell them to fuck off!
I mean, I know they sometimes scream at you for hours and all, but eventually they will shut up if you don't listen.
Um, yeah. Because that seems like a totally sound psychiatric assessment. "Try harder".
Quote from: Cain on February 01, 2014, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 31, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
If the voices in your head tell you to do crazy shit, you tell them to fuck off!
I mean, I know they sometimes scream at you for hours and all, but eventually they will shut up if you don't listen.
Um, yeah. Because that seems like a totally sound psychiatric assessment. "Try harder".
...Was kidding. Explaining why I found it funny? Even more unfunny. And annoyingly personal.
Apologies.
Quote from: Cain on January 31, 2014, 02:07:35 PM
I prefer the vengeance debate, to be honest. At least it makes sense.
Arguing over whether it's cheaper to let a man live or die as if it's a determining factor is worse, IMO. It's trying to reduce justice to economics, which is about as big as a category error as possible.
I see your point, and it's similar to what Roger was saying about people using economic justification for giving homeless people homes.
On the other hand, if the motivation is to keep a dangerous person from doing more harm to people, it makes more sense to simply keep him locked up. I think the economic debate comes into play when people are trying to force pro-death-penalty arguers to examine their real motivations.
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 31, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
If the voices in your head tell you to do crazy shit, you tell them to fuck off!
I mean, I know they sometimes scream at you for hours and all, but eventually they will shut up if you don't listen.
Hylie, not every single thread is actually about you.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on February 01, 2014, 05:23:31 PM
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 31, 2014, 11:57:43 PM
If the voices in your head tell you to do crazy shit, you tell them to fuck off!
I mean, I know they sometimes scream at you for hours and all, but eventually they will shut up if you don't listen.
Hylie, not every single thread is actually about you.
Faack, doing it again.
*leaves*
Russ Baker has a two-parter up on the mysterious "Danny", who was car-jacked by the Tsarnaev's...allegedly.
As you'll find from reading, there are some pretty major inconsistencies in his story:
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/03/11/9006/
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/03/13/something-dead-wrong-investigating-mysterious-central-character-danny-part-2-2/
QuoteAn exclusive WhoWhatWhy investigation has found serious factual inconsistencies in accounts provided by the only witness to the alleged confession of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects.
Why does this matter? Because this witness is the sole source for the entire publicly accepted narrative of who was behind the bombing and its aftermath—and why these events occurred.
QuoteWhere was Danny Carjacked?
Danny said: Brighton Avenue, Allston (across the river from Cambridge)
Conflicting version: 3rd Street, Cambridge, the Middlesex County District Attorney initially said.
How Long Was Danny Held Hostage?
Danny said: 90 minutes (reported by The Boston Globe, NBC and CBS).
Conflicting version 1: 30 minutes according to a joint statement by Middlesex acting district attorney Michael Pelgro, Cambridge police commissioner Robert Haas and MIT police chief John DiFava:
"Authorities launched an immediate investigation into the circumstances of the shooting. The investigation determined that two males were involved in this shooting.
"A short time later, police received reports of an armed carjacking by two males in the area of Third Street in Cambridge.
"The victim was carjacked at gunpoint by two males and was kept in the car with the suspects for approximately a half hour."
Conflicting version 2: "a few minutes," according to the Boston Globe and this report by the Associated Press, citing the Cambridge Police Department:
"Police said Friday at a Watertown news conference that one of the brothers stayed with the carjacking victim for a few minutes and then let him go."
Pervaiz Shallwani of the Wall Street Journal, one of the very few who was able to see at least part of the Cambridge police report, supports this shorter time span when he writes:
"Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the brothers accused of the bombing, crossed the Charles River into Boston and stole a Mercedes SUV at gunpoint, briefly holding the driver hostage, according to an excerpt from the Cambridge Police Department report filed by the driver and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal."
How Did Danny Gain His Freedom?
Danny said: He escaped when Tamerlan, seated next to him, was momentarily distracted, according the Boston Globe, NBC and CBS.
Conflicting version 1: He simply got out of the car when both brothers were outside the car, having left him alone, according to WMUR.
Conflicting version 2: The Tsarnaev brothers never held Danny as a captive, according to the Associated Press and Cambridge Police Department. They simply detained him for a few minutes, then left him by the roadside, essentially confiscating his vehicle. In this scenario, he had almost no interaction with the brothers, raising questions as to whether they would have confessed to the two crimes before taking off with his car.
If his defense team is any good, they'll probably be asking these questions.
If it goes to trial. Remember, death penalty is on the table to induce a plea bargain.
Point.
In other news, in honor of the first anniversary, the Powers That Be have decided to firmly close that empty barn door. Just about anything that can be used to carry anything else is banned from getting near the race.
So...people?
Arms must be at one's sides at all times, open hands, palms down.
No pants.
It's going to be a hell of a race, this year.
I clicked on this and it took me an entire page to realize the date it was started.
I thought to myself "Oh fuck! Not again with this shi---- ooooooh."
What a fucking idiot.
Just thought I would share with the globe how stupid I can be sometimes.
:retard:
Bump. Russ Baker (http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/04/14/uss-boston-bombing-report-hints-even-darker-reality/#rssowlmlink) again has an important piece up about inconsistencies in the report into the bombings, which he believes are suggestive of intelligence community "games"* taking place.
QuoteThe other day, we explained a key point missing from most coverage of the Boston Bombing story: that the US government may have been in contact with the alleged bombers before the Russians ever warned about them.
QuoteIn March 2011, the FBI received information from the FSB alleging that Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Zubeidat Tsarnaeva were adherents of radical Islam and that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was preparing to travel to Russia to join unspecified underground groups in Dagestan and Chechnya. The FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force in Boston (Boston JTTF) conducted an assessment of Tamerlan Tsarnaev to determine whether he posed a threat to national security and closed the assessment three months later having found no link or "nexus" to terrorism.
So, in March 2011, the FBI received information from the FSB (Russian internal security service, comparable to the FBI), warning about terrorist threats posed by the Tsarnaev family.
We have long been told that this Russian warning was the first time the Tsarnaevs were on the US government's radar.
But wait. Go to Page 18 of the summary report, and take a close look at Section V, under a heading "INFORMATION OBTAINED OR FIRST ACCESSED AND REVIEWED AFTER THE BOMBINGS."
That heading seems to suggest that what follows in Section V was unknown to American law enforcement prior to the bombings. The first item in the list–and the only one to be redacted—is of primary interest:
This information included certain [approximately two lines redacted] to show that Tsarnaev intended to pursue jihad...
After that paragraph comes a sub-section labeled JANUARY 2011 COMMUNICATIONS. The entirety of that section, including a lengthy footnote, has been redacted.
Reading a government report with redactions is like reading tea leaves in the bottom of a dirty cup. You can't know for sure what's been suppressed, but you can hazard some educated guesses about why certain material was deemed too dangerous for the public to know.
QuoteConsider that the Tsarnaevs lived in Cambridge—home to members of a ring of Russian spies that was broken up shortly before the Tsarnaevs came under scrutiny. Remember that the US rolled up a spy ring in June of 2010—after monitoring it for a decade, and that an exchange of prisoners quickly followed. An American mole inside Russian foreign intelligence, Col. Alexander Poteyev, who was back-channeling to American intelligence while simultaneously directing the stateside ring from Russia, fled to the US before the arrests. His role was obscured by American officials; and his identity was only revealed when a Russian court later found him guilty in absentia.
QuoteThe defense's claim that the FBI tried—but failed—to get Tamerlan to work for the US is hard to accept, not because the FBI doesn't regularly try to recruit immigrants like the Tsarnaevs through a carrot-and/or-stick approach, but because it's hard to imagine the FBI failing in such an endeavor. The "failure" part of the defense claim seems like a concession to the likelihood that detailed information about FBI recruitment would not be admissible in such a case. Also, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's lead federal public defender is accomplished at getting her clients charges reduced—in this case, presumably to avoid the death penalty—not at exposing giant falsehoods perpetrated by her government.
QuoteIf the defense is half-right—that the feds pushed Tamerlan Tsarnaev to become an operative—would they simply have accepted, willingly, if he said, "No, thanks"? Intelligence and security services don't tend to take no for an answer, and traditionally have played very rough with those who decline. So it is unlikely that a foreign national like Tamerlan Tsarnaev—whose family arrived less than a year after 9/11 and who was given "derivative asylum status"—could simply decline to cooperate. (Family members, including Tamerlan, were later made Lawful Permanent Residents—with the hope of full citizenship. And as we shall see, the FBI agent whose job was to interact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev later said he had no objection when Tamerlan was being processed for citizenship, suggesting that he was not unhappy with Tamerlan in the least.)
QuoteThe DOJ OIG also determined that the CT Agent did not attempt to elicit certain information during interviews of Tsarnaev and his parents, including information about Tsarnaev's plans to travel to Russia, changes in lifestyle, or knowledge of and sympathy for militant separatists in Chechnya and Dagestan. The CT agent told the DOJ OIG that he did not know why he did not ask about plans to travel to Russia,
The rest of this paragraph is blacked out. In fact, that's the first redaction you come to in the whole report. For some reason, the OIGs do not make more of this—though it demonstrates that the FBI counterterrorism officer failed to ask the questions that mattered most.
QuoteThe report concludes that a Customs and Border Patrol officer most likely notified the FBI when Tamerlan Tsarnaev traveled to Russia in 2012. The Customs officer also flagged Tamerlan so his record would be visible for his own colleagues when Tsarnaev re-entered the country.
For some reason, that notification was turned off before Tsarnaev returned. (This is not to be understated—Michael Springmann, a former US consul to Saudi Arabia, has repeatedly stated that his efforts to prevent jihadists from traveling to America were somehow overridden at higher levels)
QuoteCould the notice to the FBI have been a warning that the Russians knew the US was already in contact with the Tsarnaevs? Given the possibility that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was supposed to infiltrate anti-Russian jihadists, that essentially puts the two intelligence services on the same side in this matter. Or were the Russians worried that the Americans were playing a double game, seemingly hunting jihadists while simultaneously using those jihadists to put pressure on the Russians in their majority-Muslim, oil-bearing southern flank?
There is also the possibility that, as with the US mole in Russian intelligence, Colonel Potayev, both sides thought they were controlling the Tsarnaevs. This would have made them players in a still more dazzling game. Pull out your old spy novels for this one.
*Obligatory reference:
Quote from: Three Days of the CondorTurner: Do we have plans to invade the Middle East?
Higgins: Are you crazy?
Turner: Am I?
Higgins: Look, Turner...
Turner: Do we have plans?
Higgins: No. Absolutely not. We have games. That's all. We play games. What if? How many men? What would it take? Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a regime? That's what we're paid to do.
Turner: So Atwood just took the games too seriously. He was really going to do it, wasn't he?
Higgins: A renegade operation. Atwood knew 54/12 would never authorize it, not with the heat on the company.
Turner: What if there hadn't been any heat? Suppose I hadn't stumbled on their plan?
Higgins: Different ballgame. Fact is, there was nothing wrong with the plan. Oh, the plan was all right, the plan would've worked
So, Marathon day. I'm still working two blocks from the finish line. Security is tight, but no one is carrying assault rifles, at least in the open. I have no idea what's going on in those paddy wagons and vans.
The perimeters they set up are about a block or two from the crowds, which is actually very smart, as there's no residual chaos to deal with, and there are enough "check points" to inspect bags and socially profile people (Israeli-style, chatting people up rather than grilling them) without too much hassle.
I realize this is all closing-of-barn-doors-after-fugitive-equus, so there's an incredibly small probability of violence. So the increased security upsets me and doesn't bother me in equal amounts. It's useless, but it's useless.
My hope is that it won't be this intense next year, but I fear that the door has been opened, and this is the new normal.
There's no excuse for the cops not doing that, and there's no excuse for the population no resenting them doing it.
It's a perfect storm, what?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 21, 2014, 05:39:11 PM
It's a perfect storm, what?
Cops gotta think security. It's one of the reasons you pay them.
Free people gotta think "Fuck this noise, I'm gonna go get Bhutanese for lunch."
Actually, you may be able to answer this one. Why do cops (and most Authority, really) usually look to the last event in anticipation to the next event, even when it's been clearly shown to be a one-off, not-to-be-repeated thing?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 21, 2014, 05:57:27 PM
Actually, you may be able to answer this one. Why do cops (and most Authority, really) usually look to the last event in anticipation to the next event, even when it's been clearly shown to be a one-off, not-to-be-repeated thing?
Same reason the military does; accountability. The public will forgive you getting suckered in new, inventive ways. They will not tolerate the same trick working twice. This happens in the industrial world, too. Something breaks in a weird way, we are directed to spend all of our time researching/preventing that from happening again, while regular failures multiply.
Also, bad guys are not terribly inventive either, so it's not actually a bad strategy. Just thank your absent God that I am not a terrorist.
I think I may be hanging out with Rationalists and Discordians too much, because even vaguely assuming correctly how the police would behave at the Marathon led me to concot a dozen new ways to do fucked up things without even breaking a sweat.
Shouldn't there at least be a "creative" team looking for the most viable ways that haven't been done yet?
Hmm. Maybe there is, and we just don't know about it.
...
Holy crap, does Cain think like this all the damn time!?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 21, 2014, 06:09:32 PM
I think I may be hanging out with Rationalists and Discordians too much, because even vaguely assuming correctly how the police would behave at the Marathon led me to concot a dozen new ways to do fucked up things without even breaking a sweat.
Shouldn't there at least be a "creative" team looking for the most viable ways that haven't been done yet?
Hmm. Maybe there is, and we just don't know about it.
...
Holy crap, does Cain think like this all the damn time!?
That was tried, back in 2003. But they hired Hollywood to do it.
Because we're fucking idiots on a national level.
Memory banks not working. Reminder?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 21, 2014, 06:15:43 PM
Memory banks not working. Reminder?
It was one of the sillier Tom Ridge moves.
Anyway, this is an interesting read: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05
Though it has to do with the predictability of terrorists, not Hollywood.
Like Roger said, the DHS went all Tom Clancy a few years back and hired people to come up with the worst case scenario. Which I believe involved turning the "Freedom Towers" into anthrax and mailing it to everyone in America, on the back of nuclear suitcases laced with ricin.
Lots of companies and government agencies run red team programs of various kinds...officially a lot of them are to do with emergency response, but they'd be idiots not to game plan possible attacks as well.
Quote from: Cain on April 21, 2014, 07:33:33 PM
Like Roger said, the DHS went all Tom Clancy a few years back and hired people to come up with the worst case scenario. Which I believe involved turning the "Freedom Towers" into anthrax and mailing it to everyone in America, on the back of nuclear suitcases laced with ricin.
I love you, Cain.
Meanwhile in reality...
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/d8584e09742f97e4f41a93ad3fb652f2/tumblr_n42zwyzw9u1qckp4qo1_1280.png)
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 24, 2014, 02:41:18 AM
Meanwhile in reality...
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/d8584e09742f97e4f41a93ad3fb652f2/tumblr_n42zwyzw9u1qckp4qo1_1280.png)
:lulz:
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 24, 2014, 02:41:18 AM
Meanwhile in reality...
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/d8584e09742f97e4f41a93ad3fb652f2/tumblr_n42zwyzw9u1qckp4qo1_1280.png)
:lulz: Oh snap.
Well. Look at that.
http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/05/17/todashevs-killer-no-wonder-his-identify-was-secret/#rssowlmlink
QuoteOn May 14, 2014, the Boston Globe identified Aaron McFarlane, 41, as the agent who emptied half his ammunition clip into Todashev. It uncovered his name by "removing improperly created redactions" in PDF files from the Florida report.
Digging through public records, the newspaper discovered McFarlane had been accused of brutality—twice—while serving as an Oakland police officer in lawsuits that were settled out of court. (McFarlane and another officer were allegedly beating up someone who had already been subdued when they noticed a bystander photographing the incident. Then they attacked the bystander.)
QuoteHe also took the Fifth Amendment and later testified under immunity during a corruption investigation into a rogue police unit called "The Riders" whose members were charged with making false arrests, planting evidence, and falsifying police reports. The city settled the federal lawsuit for $10.9 million. McFarlane wasn't charged in that case, or in three other internal affairs investigations, although a prosecutor accused him of being misleading.
McFarlane retired from the Oakland Police Department in 2004 on medical disability after repeatedly injuring his leg and breaking his ankle, securing a lifetime $52,000-a-year pension. Four years later he joined the FBI, raising questions about how he passed both the rigorous background check and the FBI's physical requirements.
So, nothing odd there. Just a violent, potentially rogue cop who got retired on medical disability but somehow still got hired by the FBI and who shot Todashev in the head with a shotgun after Todashev miraculously made a confession about his involvement in a brutal triple murder a few years back, which he can no longer be questioned about.
Seems legit.
Good christ.
Damn it to hell; it sounds like the script for a bad spy movie
Quote from: Bu☆ns on April 24, 2014, 02:41:18 AM
Meanwhile in reality...
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/d8584e09742f97e4f41a93ad3fb652f2/tumblr_n42zwyzw9u1qckp4qo1_1280.png)
:lulz:
Well, this is lovely:
After the September 11 terrorist attacks, insurance companies paid out billions in damages — more than ever before. So in 2002, Congress agreed to help in the future by creating federally insured — and relatively cheap — terrorism coverage for businesses.
Claims under that coverage were filed for the first time after the Boston Marathon bombings. But insurance companies haven't paid out — because the federal government doesn't consider the Boston Marathon bombing an act of terrorism. (http://wgbhnews.org/post/us-treasury-boston-marathon-bombing-not-act-terrorism)
QuoteIt's confusing for Geyer and other business owners like him, especially since President Obama has called the marathon bombings an act of terror, and the Justice Department's indictment of suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev charges him with federal crimes of terrorism.
That's bullshit is what it is.
...also the FBI has never found an agent at fault in a lethal shooting. That's 100%. Evidently, they're not aware of the trick on multiple choice tests involving the words always, never, or every.
Quote from: Pope Pixie Pickle on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:21:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
There's probably a rant in how many stupid fucking things have been done so people feel like "Real Men"
Oh, gods. ^this^
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
I hate calling them Irish Americans. (they are fucking AMERICAN) Passport entitlement or GTFO. Growing up with MY surname and my dad in the 80's in the UK. Not good. Anyway. I should probably log out, as NORAID and "Irish"-Americans is not a subject i can be charitable about, and I don't want to put my foot in my mouth or say something fucked up because of the shit I grew up in. Like being asked if my dad was a terrorist, and other racist bullshit. I said some kind of fucked up shit post 9-11 related to all this. I know better now, but. emotive.
17th December 1978, there was a bomb planted in Southampton, 6 months before I was conceived. This is why my mum put her foot down about my first name being a explicitly Irish one.
This was the day I was told that my wife can't be Irish.
Good times.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 11, 2020, 12:20:21 AM
Quote from: Pope Pixie Pickle on April 16, 2013, 06:33:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on April 16, 2013, 06:21:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
There's probably a rant in how many stupid fucking things have been done so people feel like "Real Men"
Oh, gods. ^this^
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 16, 2013, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Pixie on April 16, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Fucking THIS. Although, this may have shat on the golden goose for them. Anyway. American's funding the IRA is one of my "RAAARGH" berserk button topics, so I should probably shut up.
It's not "America", it's 5th generation Irish-Americans who feel that they have to "help" in some manner, or they won't be real Irishmen.
I hate calling them Irish Americans. (they are fucking AMERICAN) Passport entitlement or GTFO. Growing up with MY surname and my dad in the 80's in the UK. Not good. Anyway. I should probably log out, as NORAID and "Irish"-Americans is not a subject i can be charitable about, and I don't want to put my foot in my mouth or say something fucked up because of the shit I grew up in. Like being asked if my dad was a terrorist, and other racist bullshit. I said some kind of fucked up shit post 9-11 related to all this. I know better now, but. emotive.
17th December 1978, there was a bomb planted in Southampton, 6 months before I was conceived. This is why my mum put her foot down about my first name being a explicitly Irish one.
This was the day I was told that my wife can't be Irish.
Good times.
I'm only a little Irish. There's so much mixing in me that I am, as the old folks used to say, "Crossways between a fencerail and a sonofabitch."
We've been here in the US since 1640 and my ancestors apparently fucked whoever was handy at the time.
I am perfectly fine with this.
My DNA tests said I am only minimally Irish, and my mom was pissed as hell.
But considering this year's census included questions as to answer what flavor of white we are, I think it somewhat matters in America.
Probably so Trump can come after my dago ass again. You know, us Italians took all the fucking jobs back in the last 20s. Or maybe they just want to find out how useless the 1924 Immigration Act actually was.
Either way, Jephph is very much on the, "I am an American" bandwagon. Not because he doesn't care about his ancestry, but because upstate NYers are apparently a horny bunch and it no longer matters in the grand scheme of things. I spat in the tube because we had questions that needed answering, and I found them.
Quote from: Suu on April 14, 2020, 10:30:11 PM
My DNA tests said I am only minimally Irish, and my mom was pissed as hell.
She should be. At herself.
Those tests are 169% bullshit. You're basically just paying to have your DNA entered into the national database. The ethnicity is just made up bullshit.
I feel as though I should swab something, and send it in as my DNA, but I'm not sure what.
Ideas?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 15, 2020, 01:23:08 AM
Quote from: Suu on April 14, 2020, 10:30:11 PM
My DNA tests said I am only minimally Irish, and my mom was pissed as hell.
She should be. At herself.
Those tests are 169% bullshit. You're basically just paying to have your DNA entered into the national database. The ethnicity is just made up bullshit.
The Ancestry side of it is less accurate, the medical is a bit more accurate, I found out I had cystic fibrosis genes from there. But yeah, now the US government have my DNA on file which is more than I ever wanted them to know about me
Quote from: Bruno on April 15, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
I feel as though I should swab something, and send it in as my DNA, but I'm not sure what.
Ideas?
A lizard.
Sign the form "Doktor Howl".