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I really want to tell people to vote Biden, I do. But I fucking can't.

Okay.  Then this is the forever normal.

To be clear: not for lack of trying. There is no good argument I can make in favor of him independent of our current shitshow, and that's what these bastards want. I'm giving up on trying to sell people on him because those I have access to either will already do it or I have nothing to give them. It sucks.

He came out in favor of forgiving rent and mortgage payments for the duration of the plague.  That's a pretty bold position, and a very good one.

It seems gender is more entrenched in the language than I realised. 

Do you think the constant reinforcement of gender differences in the language could explain the chauvenistic nature of latin culture?  I don't think there is a direct English translation of machismo, for example.

I wouldn't simply blame the language.  Spanish speaking culture may be a bit more chauvanistic than English speaking, but French speaking culture is not, and French is just as tightly gendered as Spanish is.

Satanists and Luciferians ARE Abrahamaic, it isn't surprising they act like the rest of them.

I scrolled through, not really reading, to see if Johnnyx had commented, since I believe he's the only native Spanish speaker on the board.  I didn't see it.

I have a nonbinary native Spanish speaking friend on facebook and they said that gender neutral language in Spanish is being developed.  x is sometimes used as a suffix (latinx) or e.  Personally I prefer e because it is easier to pronounce.  I believe there are other approaches, but those two are the most common.

this notice is telling me it's an old topic: etc., but it's still fresh as crispy bacons, or will be again after the cornovirus:

nowadays anyone who is racist is a Nazi, which was not the case in the 30s becasue we had tons of racist MFers here, and we didn't care about that. the Nazis were active in the 20s and 30s, and Jim Crow, which basically said blacks were inferior to whites, wasn't repealed until the mid 60s. people like to apply this nobility to the past, and in many cases it wasn't there. if America was so huck-a-buck, ho-hum "smash the Nazis" it would've addressed the horrid bullshit within it's borders. it. did. not. Blacks were considered inferior to whites under the eyes of US law decades after Germany was defeated. to address the OP, I don't think that's how it was. sure it should be by mow, but it wasn't then

This is true, back during world war two the Nazis approached the Klan about assisting them against the US government.  The Klan declined to do so.  Nowadays the Klan and the NSF are basically the same thing. 

OK I've been thinking about this, ever since Dimo's thread.
And its something I feel is morally grey and horrible, and if anyone dislikes it, they need to understand I feel the same way:

I don't think the grudging "I guess I have no choice but to vote biden" is going to work

When the perceived choice is:
The lefts old boring and perceived  lame duck
The rights golden boy and or Troll Entertainment Factory

Biden has a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

He is going to lose the election because his supporters have to do it in spite of dull, tired persona, the weird out of touch comments and of course, the rape allegations.
Those same allegations when levelled at Mr "Grab them by the pussy", inexplicably increase trumps support, not reduce it.

If Biden is going to win, if there is any chance at all, everyone who wants trump out is going to have to focus on whatever few positives he has going. I say this because the only active discussions I am seeing of him at the moment from either side, is on the sexual assault stuff.

It means putting that discussion aside (at least in wider quarters than here), it can wait until day one of his presidency, but it will have to wait or he will lose.

I understand if moral integrity don't allow for that. The preferable option would be to break the system that makes shit float to the top, but apathy and being literally unable to congregate makes that a pipe dream.

Or maybe that is exactly how the con wins: forced to silence complaints about the lesser of two evils.

Another possibilty would be focusing on Trump's negatives.  Not that he's a rapist, that he's a con man, and is running concentration camps, and is completely fucking up the corona response.

The more progressive you are, the harder it is to get away from bad faith arguments. You start out shiny and hopeful: yes! I can get everyone on board, it's so simple, of course they'll agree once they understand!

After the thousandth chud with a trollface grin who is engaging entirely in bad faith, you get worn down and you cannot, cannot summon that enthusiasm up.

Also, some experiences literally cannot be explained. If you have never been through actual, factual trauma, you absolutely cannot understand what it does to you. This isn't even a "kinda" thing. A "maybe" thing. You can't understand. Explaining it in a way that gets across just how damaging having had a traumatic experience is is impossible. Words fail.

And when you talk about things that can cause trauma, you sound silly. Because trauma is everywhere, waiting to be stumbled across.

So no, in some cases you literally cannot understand.

This may cause an accessibility gap, but there is no real fix for that. People are broken and wounded from years and years of failure, and summoning up that courage just to get slapped down again? When you might be talking about things that are impossible to describe to someone who hasn't experienced them, or talking to a chud and not know it?

People should instead get used to relying on non-human resources. I mostly point people to RationalWiki these days, and tell them to ask questions there, since I didn't write it.

I have gotten to the point where I just don't have the energy to engage with people I don't know on these subjects. And the only chuds I have to deal with are other leftists. Being on the front lines of that discussion would kill me as surely as a gun, those people deserve to be able to say "no, I will not explain to you on this thing today." Even if it causes an "accessibility gap".

Especially especially when most of the arguments you can make boil down to "have a little fucking empathy, you tool."

Perhaps we should sealion the nazis more so they get burnt out too?

ew, dark enlightenment style bullshit. If we are going to posit hostile aliens I greatly prefer the idea that intelligence creates hostility, which was well examined by a sci fi author whose name I am blanking.  He wrote a very good book about aliens coming to attack because consciousness was a hostile meme to them, the idea of the self.  I don't agree with his hypothesis, but he at least made it interesting, unlike this guy.

Here's the problem I've found trying to make this argument:

Either these people have nothing to lose, or they are True Believers.

Sounds dismissive?

Try saying: hey, maybe we could have four years of queer people not dying miserable, preventable deaths due to medical bigotry. Maybe we could not have the Supreme Court even more stacked against us for the rest of our lifetimes.

Maybe saving people is the right move.

If those arguments don't work, it would take Holy Writ, and they might even ignore that. If they've let their convictions take on more value than human lives, then the certain betrayal of their convictions outweighs a reduction in suffering. That condition is one that I have never been able to bring someone back from, least of all in a message that works on broad swaths of people.

If I manage to vote, I'll vote Biden. I'll hold my nose and do the deed despite feeling outraged and horrified that the good choice is that fucking bad.

I'll do it because I don't want to die, and I have so many friends I don't want to die either. And in the end, that is what four more years of Trump will do, when you can't even get necessary medical treatment because you might be queer.

I understand your point but I do think it's a bit dismissive and I'm not totally sure that throwing your hands up and declaring that they are "unreachable" is the best strategy at this point. Like it or not, we kinda need them.

I think very few Berners are "True Believers" and I think it's more likely that they feel hopeless and/or helpless rather than that they feel that they have "nothing to lose." I think that they feel like they have EVERYTHING to lose and they do not see a path that prevents them, their friends, and their families from losing everything. All in all, Berners, at least the ones that I know ARE intelligent and compassionate people that just feel disenfranchised and hopeless.

Maybe if they can be presented with something that gives them a glimmer of hope they can be persuaded. Maybe frame the whole "voting Biden" thing as a small step towards something bigger? Maybe? I really don't know which is why I'm here.

Mind you, I don't even CARE at this point if I'm being TRUTHFUL to these people, as long as I can influence them to get Orange Hitler the fuck out.

It's not a small step to something bigger.  The conservative wing of the Democratic party led to the election of Trump.  On the other hand it means life to a lot of folks, Altered clearly knows that personally but it will also make a huge difference to all the refugees who arrive after Biden stops the policy of separating families and putting them in internment camps.  It will mean a slowdown in the dismantling of our environmental and labor protections.

The small step part is important, but it's not that voting Biden now will give us the chance to vote for someone better next time, if Biden wins then the real work, protests, strikes, mass movement, will all be much easier and folks will be less likely to be killed doing them.  Voting is nowhere near enough, Biden isnt going to fix anything, but he's going to break less things than Trump and the government was never going to fix things, not even under Sanders.  That's up to the people.

[Moderate Democrats Suggest Working with Coronavirus to Find Common Ground]

Moderate Democrats Suggest Working with Coronavirus to Find Common Ground

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/moderate-democrats-suggest-working-with-coronavirus-to-find-common-ground

"It's our priority to find a solution everyone is happy with," revealed Sen. Chuck Schumer. "Nancy [Pelosi] and I have been meeting with the Coronavirus to try to work out a plan that both saves lives and kills people. We can't afford to be partisan or idealistic, and we have to be willing to make concessions. If that means giving up everything we want, so be it."

Presidential hopeful Joe Biden has been meeting with a team of scientific and medical specialists in an effort to strengthen the Coronavirus' chances politically.

I can't wait for four years of a Biden presidency to get steamrolled by an inexplicably still-Republican-controlled congress. I wasn't "Blue No Matter Who" during the primaries because I think it's fucking retarded to show your poker hand before all bets are in, but obviously I'll wind up voting for him because he's Literally Someone Other Than Trump™.

And I say four years because I have a feeling that somewhere around year three he'll forget that he's president and start telling everyone that Obama will handle everything.

I'll be surprised if he wins.

We have been lucky to go this long without the agricultural sector being slammed, but...

https://apnews.com/0cd7680d2d221944ed05f86691bb3537

Trump is also talking about cutting farm worker pay, which is going to do a great job of attracting people to a field already reknowned for low pay and shitty working conditions.,..

you can infuse wine, but it's not the same as hard alcohol.  If I were making sugar wine I'd get into distillation anyways, just to get away from the taste of Kilyu.

For context max (as in mad max) WAS a normal policeman.

, it's just the opposite of extictionism, which also doesn't work.

IS THAT A FUCKING CHALLENGE?

Absolutely. 

I didn't say accelerationism works, it doesn't, it's just the opposite of extictionism, which also doesn't work.