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i just wanted to say that i really wanted to say something very much like what iranon wrote

Anyone who believes in anything, even in the "self", is a fuck wit that deserves ridicule and anal fistulae.

nice, that should be in fnordi's "wise shit" thread

you could perhaps state that, religion provides the goal, for which science provides the means?

[whatever]

Bullshit, your average atheist is NOT likely to support killing people in the name of science, nor are the majority of scientists, religious followers are far more likely to support the idea of killing in the name of (insert religion) than atheists. Okay, not every religion, and not every atheist, but still.

unless you come up with some kind of actual references for this, i'm just have to kindly tell you i disagree. imo, your average scientist is just as likely to support killing people in the name of whatever as your average religious person, also in the name of whatever (which is not necessarily their deity of choise, but can in any case be any cause).

contrary what scientists like you to believe, people with knowledge (of science) are not in any way more kind, peace-loving or whatever than other people.

they are on average more rational, i can give you that.

you could make a point that irrational people are more likely to support killing people than rational people. but that's a whole different slice of cake cause you have rational and irrational religious people.

the stranglehold that the major religions have on the general populace is such that any "modern religion" which could come along and adapt to modern circumstances as you put it, would be crushed, dismissed as a fanatical cult, or otherwise discreditted, it would not take hold.

myeah, that's memetics working for you just looked up for you the term used for this phenomenon, exotoxic.

Religion and spirituality are two entirely seperate entities, sure, some religions can lead to spirituality, in the same way that some roads can lead to a holiday camp, and some to a prison. But the religions that lead to genuine spirituality are so overwhelmingly in the minority that stating religion leads to spirituality is a statement that is clearly flawed, most religions do not, most religions lead to subservience and thought-regulation, as opposed to Spirtuality.

interesting! i think you are right about this, never really thought of it that way.. it's yet another fact religions are trying (or designed) to hide.

with the possible exception of Buddhism

which is probably one of the reasons why buddhism pretty much refuses to call itself a "religion". OTOH, in the countries where buddhism is practiced as a state-religion, it does in fact have a lot of the negative properties you attribute to religion in general, and indeed fundamentalism occurs. just like christianity and islam have religious laws against killing, so do the religious buddhists.
same, if you study christianity, islam, buddhism, judaism, hinduism, whatever in a spiritual manner, THEN, all these religions are all pretty much okay since they all carry the same basic message which is "be nice upon to eachother".

and as people accept things like the need for scientific evidence, erodes its most fundamental pillars. If anything, I can see Christianity becoming even more restrictive; with the Intelligent Design fiasco crashing down around it

excellent point.

i hope i made some sense as well. apologies for my bad english, but i'm not much of a writer, so when i have to make long sentences in written english they tend to get all curly.

ok thanks i'll try to read it tomorrow when i'm sober then

why can't people say their things in nice tiny chunky bits .. wayyy too much text for me, my brains and the beers residing in it ..

i'll try ok

> Religion is also a tool for oppression.

agreed. but there's a difference between religion and spirituality.