Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Propaganda Depository => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 14, 2017, 01:30:39 am

Title: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 14, 2017, 01:30:39 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.

 :retard:

On the plus side, for you, that sort of shit is tolerated here.  For reasons that escape me.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Salty on May 14, 2017, 01:51:25 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
:troll:

Shit's tired.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 14, 2017, 02:56:58 am
I looked for an emote... meh.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Cain on May 14, 2017, 05:23:07 am
That may be the most retarded thing I read since someone decided J was their personal pronoun.

Or is it the accurate representation of today's society

Yeah...no.

If you cannot refute the truth that today's society in general has their head up their butt, then please direct yourself to the nearest doctor in order to ascertain your reasoning of existence.

You see, the thing is, I don't actually need to refute you at all. 
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 14, 2017, 08:58:07 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 14, 2017, 10:26:51 am
Why is it the ones I say hi to first always turn out to be racist dickheads? Studies must be done.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 14, 2017, 06:16:45 pm
Why is it the ones I say hi to first always turn out to be racist dickheads? Studies must be done.
In the meantime don't greet anyone, for the good of humanity.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Supreme Dingus on May 14, 2017, 11:49:15 pm
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Right? It's like I'm assuming normal Muslims are extremists.

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 15, 2017, 01:05:53 am
There's a pretty strong correlation, yes.

Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2017, 04:17:46 am

White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

Newsfeed.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2017, 04:18:59 am

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.

 :crackhead:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2017, 04:19:53 am
Why is it the ones I say hi to first always turn out to be racist dickheads? Studies must be done.

You are an uncouth Englishman with a crowbar.  They see that and think you're one of them.

You really have to find a way to make 'em sorry.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Cain on May 15, 2017, 04:57:04 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Right? It's like I'm assuming normal Muslims are extremists.

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.

Are you going to start blubbering about white genocide? 
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 15, 2017, 05:02:52 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Right? It's like I'm assuming normal Muslims are extremists.

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.

Are you going to start blubbering about white genocide?

Please say yes.  Please say yes.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Supreme Dingus on May 15, 2017, 05:45:10 am
There's a pretty strong correlation, yes.
Hence White supremacy being normal now :lulz:

Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Right? It's like I'm assuming normal Muslims are extremists.

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.

Are you going to start blubbering about white genocide?

Please say yes.  Please say yes.
White genocide is real! Jews killed millions of White people and turned them into lampshades and soap!
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 15, 2017, 07:57:12 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.
White tribalism just means you have found a support group of other racists, its not an ethos, and becomes less relevant now that the biggest threat to your livelyhood is a fragile white simpleton in a bad toupee with too much power.

The moderate muslim comment is sad, it clings to the few terror attacks of the last few years, and pretends there arent 2 billion muslims in the world who are sickened by violence. If you are going to jump through hoops to find reasons to hate muslims, do it better.
Right? It's like I'm assuming normal Muslims are extremists.

Everyone engaged in White identity politics is a racist White supremacist though.
Just because you joke in a tone of snide condescension, it doesnt make it more true. For example lets be generous and say every muslim in the US UK, Syria, Afghanistan Iran are all extremist (they're not but its an example). That still leaves Malaysia and huge parts of India, which has a very different brand of Islam, they are incredibly gentle hospitable people.... who just so happen to make up a billion and a half of the previously mentioned muslims.

The world is a bigger place then you think.

And yes anyone engaged in white identity politics is a racist, or sheltered beyond the point of relevance
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 15, 2017, 02:03:56 pm
Quote
And yes anyone engaged in white identity politics is a racist, or sheltered beyond the point of relevance

It's depressingly easy to prove as well. Lets just look at some groups concerned with white identity crap:

The KKK.
National Front
EDL
BNP
Front Nationale
r/The_Idiot
UKIP
German versions of the above.
Dutch versions of the above.

etc. etc. Hordes of cretins, to a man. I can't name a single group that associates with this shit that isn't involved in racist stupidity. I assume it's a waste of time pointing out that the respective leaders of such movements are blatantly racist (And usually sexist for good measure) because this spag is either of a similar ilk or thinks its doing some very clever trolling. The sad reality is it just marks you as an irredeemable shitneck.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 15, 2017, 02:06:03 pm
Why is it the ones I say hi to first always turn out to be racist dickheads? Studies must be done.

You are an uncouth Englishman with a crowbar.  They see that and think you're one of them.

You really have to find a way to make 'em sorry.

I do try. Suggestions for how to ramp it up welcome. All ideas I have at the moment would likely result in a stint in the clink.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 15, 2017, 02:17:02 pm
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.

 :retard:

On the plus side, for you, that sort of shit is tolerated here.  For reasons that escape me.
Is it tolerated here?
There's you, Cain and ECH(when around),  if you and Cain vote to ban him then what's to stop you, pretty much the exact same as the way RP was done.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 15, 2017, 04:03:01 pm
Suggestion:
Revise the signup rules page thing to include something like "If you're a nazi fuckwit, don't bother. It's boring and won't end well".

Saves any kind of discussion when the next brother nihil wanders in.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 16, 2017, 01:37:20 am
Why is it the ones I say hi to first always turn out to be racist dickheads? Studies must be done.

You are an uncouth Englishman with a crowbar.  They see that and think you're one of them.

You really have to find a way to make 'em sorry.

I do try. Suggestions for how to ramp it up welcome. All ideas I have at the moment would likely result in a stint in the clink.

Take them around to the pub.

Not that pub.  The other pub.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 16, 2017, 01:38:02 am
Oh I'm just a White tribalist. I denounce violence and hatred.

You know...like a moderate Muslim.

 :retard:

On the plus side, for you, that sort of shit is tolerated here.  For reasons that escape me.
Is it tolerated here?
There's you, Cain and ECH(when around),  if you and Cain vote to ban him then what's to stop you, pretty much the exact same as the way RP was done.

Both Nazis were actually banned for spamming, not for being odious pieces of human-shaped shit.  I recall the first incident well.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 16, 2017, 08:51:52 am
What I am saying is, because its just you and Cain for the most part setting policy, ECH when he is here, instead of saying "the board tolerates x" why not just do something about it?
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 17, 2017, 01:00:36 am
What I am saying is, because its just you and Cain for the most part setting policy, ECH when he is here, instead of saying "the board tolerates x" why not just do something about it?

Well, I did, on Pope Ludicrous.  It didn't end well, as I recall.  In fact, it went SO badly that my wife commented, "One of them will call you a Nazi within 6 months, just to piss you off."

She was wrong, of course.  It only took 5 months.   :lulz:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 17, 2017, 04:08:01 pm
What I am saying is, because its just you and Cain for the most part setting policy, ECH when he is here, instead of saying "the board tolerates x" why not just do something about it?

Well, I did, on Pope Ludicrous.  It didn't end well, as I recall.  In fact, it went SO badly that my wife commented, "One of them will call you a Nazi within 6 months, just to piss you off."

She was wrong, of course.  It only took 5 months.   :lulz:

The Manson comparison from some of your off-board "fans" linked to Loveshade was pretty epic. I just had an image of you in my head of you lopsided GRIN'n with the "Dobbshead" carved into your brow...

Hey, would you consider being this era's antichrist? I believe that you could take the position and mythology into fresh, new places. I can get you all the proper form work and then everyone gets to shit in Nihil's cereal directly. Waddayasay!? :)
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 17, 2017, 04:19:10 pm
Suggestion:
Revise the signup rules page thing to include something like "If you're a nazi fuckwit, don't bother. It's boring and won't end well".

Saves any kind of discussion when the next brother nihil wanders in.

I once suggested making being a racist fuck a bannable offense, as in adding it to the rules, but he doesn't want to change the rules, he wants to spend year after year repeatedly whining about it not being a bannable offense and implying that it's somehow everyone else's fault, as if it isn't basically just him and Cain in charge at this point.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Junkenstein on May 17, 2017, 05:45:48 pm
I assume you're referring to Roger?

I wouldn't say he's constantly whining, as this shit tends to only occur to a severe degree every 3-6 months or so. And to be fair he's stated his stance that's not changed every time and it's usually one I agree with. I see no reason to give the kinds of people we're talking about a platform, but most (rp-esque) don't even last a week anyway. I'm a judgemental little fucker so would probably be even harsher than what may be fair. I'm also sick of the terrible luck I get when I say hello to new meat, so that factors in to this too.

Or, Roger, as this is about you and, you know, kind of shitty to talk around you, if you can, just change the thing? I'd support this being banable. Faust does not seem averse. I forget if there's a fifth (maybe lmno?) Or whoever has kicked in the most cash to server shit. I for one am not averse to seeing less of these fuckers.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 17, 2017, 07:25:25 pm
I assume you're referring to Roger?

I wouldn't say he's constantly whining, as this shit tends to only occur to a severe degree every 3-6 months or so. And to be fair he's stated his stance that's not changed every time and it's usually one I agree with. I see no reason to give the kinds of people we're talking about a platform, but most (rp-esque) don't even last a week anyway. I'm a judgemental little fucker so would probably be even harsher than what may be fair. I'm also sick of the terrible luck I get when I say hello to new meat, so that factors in to this too.

Or, Roger, as this is about you and, you know, kind of shitty to talk around you, if you can, just change the thing? I'd support this being banable. Faust does not seem averse. I forget if there's a fifth (maybe lmno?) Or whoever has kicked in the most cash to server shit. I for one am not averse to seeing less of these fuckers.

I didn't say constantly, I fucking said repeatedly. As in every 3-6 months for years on fucking end. And I suggested making being a racist turd, or at least posting racist turd sentiment, bannable years ago. I suggested it because integrity is important to me, so banning people for actual rules they knew about in advance and violated anyway would be a way of maintaining integrity while ALSO getting to ban racist turds. I also disagreed with it in principle, as IMO it was, at the time, counter to the general ethic of the forum to have a list of rules that basically came down to "agree with us or we ban you". I disagree with the general tactic of finding excuses to ban people we don't like. I think that every time there's a troll, instead of trolling them back until they have a wobbler and ragequit, someone "confirms" that they're from the same city, state, rainshadow, or geographical region as Poptard and they're banned. But times have changed, the board is not what it was, and if the modmins want to make being a neonazi a bannable offense, they fucking should have that conversation in PM and do it already, or don't. Without the recurring cycle of passive-aggressive whining.

I don't talk to Roger, and I rarely talk about him because he's rarely relevant to me. But this topic affects the whole board, so there's my two cents.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 17, 2017, 08:02:51 pm
Crying out to ban a Nazi and then being called a Nazi is pretty standard for admin staff, it's a thankless, awful, time consuming job.

You try to decide the rules which are entirely subjective and apply them fairly and a hold over from the dark days that people wanted differently was an emphasis of free speech. It has its positives and its negatives.

At least we have only had a handful of people try to dox us over the years, reading about the something awful guys experiences is pretty depressing:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/fuck-you-and-die-an-oral-history-of-something-awful

If the problem is the decision needs to be made by a larger pool of people again maybe that's what's needed, we're fairly active again, certainly a lot more then last year which is nice (thanks Trump, for making Discordianism great again, one by one all the disagreeing, bickering popes are climbing back in to the clown car).

I'm sorry I can't give more energy to the site, I prioritise the other aspects so I removed myself from the forum decision making process, the only rule I enforce is "If your photons representing information result in me getting legal threats, I reserve the right not to process those photons in the server"
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 17, 2017, 08:06:35 pm
But yeah, I thought I had to say something because "we tolerate racists"  isn't something I agree with in any form so I did not like the thought of being considered part of that "We", though banning them isn't the only option to show you don't tolerate it.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 18, 2017, 02:32:53 am
Suggestion:
Revise the signup rules page thing to include something like "If you're a nazi fuckwit, don't bother. It's boring and won't end well".

Saves any kind of discussion when the next brother nihil wanders in.

I once suggested making being a racist fuck a bannable offense, as in adding it to the rules, but he doesn't want to change the rules, he wants to spend year after year repeatedly whining about it not being a bannable offense and implying that it's somehow everyone else's fault, as if it isn't basically just him and Cain in charge at this point.

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of A) osmosis not being a thing, and B) your incredible fucking hypocrisy on this very issue, from the time in question.

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 18, 2017, 02:34:22 am
I assume you're referring to Roger?

I wouldn't say he's constantly whining, as this shit tends to only occur to a severe degree every 3-6 months or so. And to be fair he's stated his stance that's not changed every time and it's usually one I agree with. I see no reason to give the kinds of people we're talking about a platform, but most (rp-esque) don't even last a week anyway. I'm a judgemental little fucker so would probably be even harsher than what may be fair. I'm also sick of the terrible luck I get when I say hello to new meat, so that factors in to this too.

Or, Roger, as this is about you and, you know, kind of shitty to talk around you, if you can, just change the thing? I'd support this being banable. Faust does not seem averse. I forget if there's a fifth (maybe lmno?) Or whoever has kicked in the most cash to server shit. I for one am not averse to seeing less of these fuckers.

I am down with this.  There are enough alt-right tards stinking up the rest of my planet.

Off to PM with the remaining other mods.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 18, 2017, 04:17:59 am
I assume you're referring to Roger?

I wouldn't say he's constantly whining, as this shit tends to only occur to a severe degree every 3-6 months or so. And to be fair he's stated his stance that's not changed every time and it's usually one I agree with. I see no reason to give the kinds of people we're talking about a platform, but most (rp-esque) don't even last a week anyway. I'm a judgemental little fucker so would probably be even harsher than what may be fair. I'm also sick of the terrible luck I get when I say hello to new meat, so that factors in to this too.

Or, Roger, as this is about you and, you know, kind of shitty to talk around you, if you can, just change the thing? I'd support this being banable. Faust does not seem averse. I forget if there's a fifth (maybe lmno?) Or whoever has kicked in the most cash to server shit. I for one am not averse to seeing less of these fuckers.

I didn't say constantly, I fucking said repeatedly. As in every 3-6 months for years on fucking end. And I suggested making being a racist turd, or at least posting racist turd sentiment, bannable years ago. I suggested it because integrity is important to me, so banning people for actual rules they knew about in advance and violated anyway would be a way of maintaining integrity while ALSO getting to ban racist turds. I also disagreed with it in principle, as IMO it was, at the time, counter to the general ethic of the forum to have a list of rules that basically came down to "agree with us or we ban you". I disagree with the general tactic of finding excuses to ban people we don't like. I think that every time there's a troll, instead of trolling them back until they have a wobbler and ragequit, someone "confirms" that they're from the same city, state, rainshadow, or geographical region as Poptard and they're banned. But times have changed, the board is not what it was, and if the modmins want to make being a neonazi a bannable offense, they fucking should have that conversation in PM and do it already, or don't. Without the recurring cycle of passive-aggressive whining.

I don't talk to Roger, and I rarely talk about him because he's rarely relevant to me. But this topic affects the whole board, so there's my two cents.

I like it better when you don't talk to me or about me.  I can make that more clear if you'd like. 

Or we can both just go back to ignoring each other's existence, which I think we both prefer, and I think is better for everyone around.

You decide.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Supreme Dingus on May 18, 2017, 02:36:20 pm
If we want to create a world where race doesn't matter and no one has to suffer more just because the color of their skin, that has to include White people.

For everyone to be treated equally, everyone has to be treated equally.

White people should be free to advocate their interests like everyone else.

Only punching White people for doing what every other race does unfairly causes them to suffer more just because the color of their skin.

You are NOT fighting for a world where race doesn't matter. If race didn't matter to you, you wouldn't hold White people to a completely different standard. You are fighting for a world where White people are discriminated against.

Associating every pro-White sentiment with hate and violence, to instantly censor it, is what leads to the more extreme manifestations.

Is stopping the evil Nazis from living in a separate community something you would die for? You'd die before actually treating everyone equally and letting White people form communities based on their shared identities too? You'd die just to make sure White people suffer more just because the color of their skin?
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 18, 2017, 02:43:07 pm
You've already shown you dont want a fair world where everyone is treated equally because you hold the prejudiced and false view that the average Muslim is extremist. It undermines your argument.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 18, 2017, 03:18:19 pm
If we want to create a world where race doesn't matter and no one has to suffer more just because the color of their skin, that has to include White people.

For everyone to be treated equally, everyone has to be treated equally.

White people should be free to advocate their interests like everyone else.

Only punching White people for doing what every other race does unfairly causes them to suffer more just because the color of their skin.

You are NOT fighting for a world where race doesn't matter. If race didn't matter to you, you wouldn't hold White people to a completely different standard. You are fighting for a world where White people are discriminated against.

Associating every pro-White sentiment with hate and violence, to instantly censor it, is what leads to the more extreme manifestations.

Is stopping the evil Nazis from living in a separate community something you would die for? You'd die before actually treating everyone equally and letting White people form communities based on their shared identities too? You'd die just to make sure White people suffer more just because the color of their skin?

It's adorable when you pretend to use logic.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Cramulus on May 18, 2017, 03:21:28 pm
What metric would you propose to measure equality?
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: LMNO on May 18, 2017, 03:30:42 pm
Interesting example from NPR yesterday (http://www.npr.org/2017/05/17/528822128/the-color-of-law-details-how-u-s-housing-policies-created-segregation).  It talked about government housing policies of segregation and redlining, going back at least 80 years, and the knock-on effects of such policies -- Basically, because of the policies of the past, minorities in the present are structurally disadvantaged on an economic an geographic way, from birth.

So with that in mind, what does "equality" mean?  To start at a "point zero" and treat all people 'the same' means you're starting out with a structural inequality that's already been built in.  Changing the rules now and ignoring the past doesn't mitigate or level the playing field.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Salty on May 18, 2017, 04:01:21 pm
If we want to create a world where race doesn't matter and no one has to suffer more just because the color of their skin, that has to include White people.

For everyone to be treated equally, everyone has to be treated equally.

White people should be free to advocate their interests like everyone else.

Only punching White people for doing what every other race does unfairly causes them to suffer more just because the color of their skin.

You are NOT fighting for a world where race doesn't matter. If race didn't matter to you, you wouldn't hold White people to a completely different standard. You are fighting for a world where White people are discriminated against.

Associating every pro-White sentiment with hate and violence, to instantly censor it, is what leads to the more extreme manifestations.

Is stopping the evil Nazis from living in a separate community something you would die for? You'd die before actually treating everyone equally and letting White people form communities based on their shared identities too? You'd die just to make sure White people suffer more just because the color of their skin?

Before you get too far into handing equality out like candy, maybe take a sociology class? Just a thought.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 18, 2017, 04:26:30 pm
Requesting a split of the "do we ban Nazis from PD" section.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2017, 01:18:41 am
Requesting a split of the "do we ban Nazis from PD" section.

Done.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Salty on May 19, 2017, 01:39:00 am
If spag's consideration are to be considered:

I think we should ban white-nationalism from the boards, forever.

Those threads are more contemptible than drug threads. There is nothing to gain from having those people here.

In the past I would have been against this because I feel Discordia is stronger than that bullshit. However, because posting here isn't what it once was, and because it is a much more fractured place than it once was, we are not able to make these fuckers leave in shame the way we would have.

That's ok, things change. But I don't think we should have to put up with it.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 19, 2017, 02:55:25 am
I vote in favor of banning white nationalists on sight, without warning on the first infraction, so long as appropriate signage is displayed somewhere. As Salty says, there's nothing to gain from having them here. They will not convince anyone here, and we will not convince them. The world is not what it was 10 years ago, and we are deep into the Zombie Apocalypse. No sense pleading with zombies not to eat brains.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: minuspace on May 19, 2017, 08:23:24 am
It's like this, you can't really blame someone for being authentically intolerant of actual intolerance. Cognitive dissonance is worn out.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2017, 02:15:10 pm
My only thought on the matter that hasn't already been expressed by another is that if we're banning an idea we don't like and every fool that spouts it openly here then perhaps the board needs to seriously consider what sort of folks and ideas are desirable and seek them out by some means. If we're to be active in exclusion we might do well to be active in inclusion.

Also... much of what is known about the problem came directly from some wannabe "NAZI" fools that couldn't KYFMS to save their souls or from searches into their spouted bullshit. In banning the occasional fuckers coming here we exclude the possibility of incidental info coming to us. Do we begin to seek it out or sit happy in our new "clean" little space here and play 5 word story while they busily push their message elsewhere?

Is this ultimately about a more comfortable board or about actually intending to prepare for a real fight?
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on May 19, 2017, 03:04:47 pm
My only thought on the matter that hasn't already been expressed by another is that if we're banning an idea we don't like and every fool that spouts it openly here then perhaps the board needs to seriously consider what sort of folks and ideas are desirable and seek them out by some means. If we're to be active in exclusion we might do well to be active in inclusion.

Also... much of what is known about the problem came directly from some wannabe "NAZI" fools that couldn't KYFMS to save their souls or from searches into their spouted bullshit. In banning the occasional fuckers coming here we exclude the possibility of incidental info coming to us. Do we begin to seek it out or sit happy in our new "clean" little space here and play 5 word story while they busily push their message elsewhere?

Is this ultimately about a more comfortable board or about actually intending to prepare for a real fight?

To me, it is about not wasting time. Activity is picking up again on PD and I am in favor of protecting the flow of constructive ideas. I doubt this ban will be used more than once or twice a month at most, and we will likely tolerate people who have implied they are racist shit's until they remove all doubt. The only ones who will get smashed are the ones who, as you said, are too dumb for KYFMS.

I know this seems like a huge step and maybe a betrayal of some high ideal of unconditional tolerance, but I don't really care. As Stephen King might say, the world has moved on.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2017, 03:22:15 pm
My only thought on the matter that hasn't already been expressed by another is that if we're banning an idea we don't like and every fool that spouts it openly here then perhaps the board needs to seriously consider what sort of folks and ideas are desirable and seek them out by some means. If we're to be active in exclusion we might do well to be active in inclusion.

Also... much of what is known about the problem came directly from some wannabe "NAZI" fools that couldn't KYFMS to save their souls or from searches into their spouted bullshit. In banning the occasional fuckers coming here we exclude the possibility of incidental info coming to us. Do we begin to seek it out or sit happy in our new "clean" little space here and play 5 word story while they busily push their message elsewhere?

Is this ultimately about a more comfortable board or about actually intending to prepare for a real fight?

To me, it is about not wasting time. Activity is picking up again on PD and I am in favor of protecting the flow of constructive ideas. I doubt this ban will be used more than once or twice a month at most, and we will likely tolerate people who have implied they are racist shit's until they remove all doubt. The only ones who will get smashed are the ones who, as you said, are too dumb for KYFMS.

I know this seems like a huge step and maybe a betrayal of some high ideal of unconditional tolerance, but I don't really care. As Stephen King might say, the world has moved on.

For my part I don't believe in unconditional anything, least of all "tolerance." If something is intolerable then it implies by nature a call to action of some sort. I banned anyone who dropped the slightest slur from DS 2015 and screened profiles for authenticity and for general signs of being a shit for nearly a year before things finally began to be cool in terms of being a classy place for Discordians to post interesting content with only a bit of spam here and there. It was taxing and occasionally I thought about dissolving the group, especially after the election. If I ever rejoin it will, ironically, be under a fake account. We live in a time where "true names" are a powerful thing indeed.

This board has the opportunity to grow from where it's at much faster per capita and have a healthy set of rules from the get go. I remember TGRR putting forward a plan in one thread or another for eventual restructuring that I think needs to rather sincerely be revisited as a basis going onward.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2017, 04:50:08 pm
My only thought on the matter that hasn't already been expressed by another is that if we're banning an idea we don't like and every fool that spouts it openly here then perhaps the board needs to seriously consider what sort of folks and ideas are desirable and seek them out by some means. If we're to be active in exclusion we might do well to be active in inclusion.

Also... much of what is known about the problem came directly from some wannabe "NAZI" fools that couldn't KYFMS to save their souls or from searches into their spouted bullshit. In banning the occasional fuckers coming here we exclude the possibility of incidental info coming to us. Do we begin to seek it out or sit happy in our new "clean" little space here and play 5 word story while they busily push their message elsewhere?

Is this ultimately about a more comfortable board or about actually intending to prepare for a real fight?

As Alty pointed out, this board is too fractured to do shit and all we are doing is providing them another venue.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2017, 05:25:13 pm
My only thought on the matter that hasn't already been expressed by another is that if we're banning an idea we don't like and every fool that spouts it openly here then perhaps the board needs to seriously consider what sort of folks and ideas are desirable and seek them out by some means. If we're to be active in exclusion we might do well to be active in inclusion.

Also... much of what is known about the problem came directly from some wannabe "NAZI" fools that couldn't KYFMS to save their souls or from searches into their spouted bullshit. In banning the occasional fuckers coming here we exclude the possibility of incidental info coming to us. Do we begin to seek it out or sit happy in our new "clean" little space here and play 5 word story while they busily push their message elsewhere?

Is this ultimately about a more comfortable board or about actually intending to prepare for a real fight?

As Alty pointed out, this board is too fractured to do shit and all we are doing is providing them another venue.

Yeah. We can prevent the venue thing easily enough, and should IMO, but can we recover from the in-fighting and be effective as a counter-measure? Maybe not... but I think maybe yes with fresh blood and a new MO here.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic or speaking to the wrong venue myself. Maybe this place should just be a clubhouse for a couple dozen people where the regulars work on projects and talk about their lives with a big sign on the front that says

"No NAZIs.
This means you!"

I'm fine with that. I just see a potential for more... maybe, but not as it is now for sure.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2017, 09:57:53 pm
but can we recover from the in-fighting

Pretty sure that's a no.   :lol:

I am reasonably certain that the people involved are happier the way it is.  The only way this place will be less fractured as a whole is if we get an influx of new blood, and that new blood doesn't factionalize based on the ancient butthurt present.  The odds of which are zero.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 19, 2017, 10:50:09 pm
but can we recover from the in-fighting

Pretty sure that's a no.   :lol:

I am reasonably certain that the people involved are happier the way it is.  The only way this place will be less fractured as a whole is if we get an influx of new blood, and that new blood doesn't factionalize based on the ancient butthurt present.  The odds of which are zero.

I had a vision in my head of ancient looking catacombs beneath the "Temple@ PD.com" and a sealed stoneware jar covered in cobwebs with a sticky note on it saying "Ancient jar of irredeemable butthurt. Do NOT disturb!"
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 19, 2017, 11:13:12 pm
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Eater of Clowns on May 19, 2017, 11:14:38 pm
I support the banning Nazis thing. I also have ideas about grudges, but I have PMed them along with my Nazi banning support to The Mgt.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 20, 2017, 02:21:48 am
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

Recursive butthurt...  :eek:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: minuspace on May 20, 2017, 02:33:42 am
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

Recursive butthurt...  :o
Recursive butthurt mitosis  :horrormirth:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2017, 04:46:50 am
but can we recover from the in-fighting

Pretty sure that's a no.   :lol:

I am reasonably certain that the people involved are happier the way it is.  The only way this place will be less fractured as a whole is if we get an influx of new blood, and that new blood doesn't factionalize based on the ancient butthurt present.  The odds of which are zero.

I had a vision in my head of ancient looking catacombs beneath the "Temple@ PD.com" and a sealed stoneware jar covered in cobwebs with a sticky note on it saying "Ancient jar of irredeemable butthurt. Do NOT disturb!"

Ouch.  Accurate.   :lulz:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2017, 04:51:57 am
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

If we could figure out how to make butthurt turn a turbine, we'd never have to worry about powering our cities again.

But the thing that makes the butthurt even butthurtier is when the persons you are butthurt about have a totally incorrect idea of why you're butthurt.  I mean, it doesn't make me cry into the beer I can no longer drink, but it is an irritant.

Also, it's worth mentioning that when properly aged, it sometimes stops being butthurt and turns into plain old hatred.  Not always, but sometimes, and for me it's usually based on the reason for the butthurt.

I don't hate you, for example, but I hate Kai like poison...Even though, to an 3rd party, it would seem that I have less reason to be butthurt at him than I did with respect to you.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Wizard Joseph on May 20, 2017, 12:46:46 pm
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

Recursive butthurt...  :o
Recursive butthurt mitosis  :horrormirth:
Recursive butthurt mitotic power generation  :fnord:

Quote from:  newsfeed?
If we could figure out how to make butthurt turn a turbine, we'd never have to worry about powering our cities again.   
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Faust on May 20, 2017, 01:06:18 pm
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

If we could figure out how to make butthurt turn a turbine, we'd never have to worry about powering our cities again.

But the thing that makes the butthurt even butthurtier is when the persons you are butthurt about have a totally incorrect idea of why you're butthurt.  I mean, it doesn't make me cry into the beer I can no longer drink, but it is an irritant.

Also, it's worth mentioning that when properly aged, it sometimes stops being butthurt and turns into plain old hatred.  Not always, but sometimes, and for me it's usually based on the reason for the butthurt.

I don't hate you, for example, but I hate Kai like poison...Even though, to an 3rd party, it would seem that I have less reason to be butthurt at him than I did with respect to you.
I don't keep track of why people are butthurt with me, if I've done something worth hating me over I'm always willing to talk it out but I don't know what that something is.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Supreme Dingus on May 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm
Interesting example from NPR yesterday (http://www.npr.org/2017/05/17/528822128/the-color-of-law-details-how-u-s-housing-policies-created-segregation).  It talked about government housing policies of segregation and redlining, going back at least 80 years, and the knock-on effects of such policies -- Basically, because of the policies of the past, minorities in the present are structurally disadvantaged on an economic an geographic way, from birth.

So with that in mind, what does "equality" mean?  To start at a "point zero" and treat all people 'the same' means you're starting out with a structural inequality that's already been built in.  Changing the rules now and ignoring the past doesn't mitigate or level the playing field.
Forcing segregation and forcing integration are both messy. Lots of people would segregate naturally if we just let them. Forcing diversity just for the sake of diversity is weird.

I guess my sense of treating people equally is a zeroing-out, yeah. I get what you’re saying too - White people shouldn’t have an equal opportunity to play as a team because the playing field is currently unequal. Exploring why the playing field is unequal and how it’s unequal is where we run into problems though because you can look at that so many different ways.

If White people are collectively responsible for the damage they’ve caused to other groups, are they also collectively responsible for their contributions? Will there ever be enough reparations? If slaves from Africa were never brought to America, wouldn’t lots of them still be slaves? Etc etc...

I don't think we could ever agree on how much White people owe. For some people it won't ever be enough but an increasing number of White people feel like it's over and are starting to think about the future. I don't think my grandchildren should be forced to be an atomized minority amongst other potentially hostile tribes because slavery and stuff.

What metric would you propose to measure equality?
Exactly.

I don't know but if a certain group, like Blacks, are over represented in a certain field, like basketball, I wouldn't think it's because Jews and Chinese were treated unequally. Different races naturally excel at different things. Chinese people obviously shouldn't be discriminated against by the NBA but we shouldn't force them to have equal results. So, just looking at outcomes alone would be a bad metric to determine who's been treated equally.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 20, 2017, 06:55:52 pm
Can this please be the first guy who gets banned for it? He's begging, you guys.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2017, 08:04:38 pm
Its more like the gnome kings vault in return to oz, cavernous halls filled with butthurt, and when you trip over the butthurt it creates more butthurt.

If we could figure out how to make butthurt turn a turbine, we'd never have to worry about powering our cities again.

But the thing that makes the butthurt even butthurtier is when the persons you are butthurt about have a totally incorrect idea of why you're butthurt.  I mean, it doesn't make me cry into the beer I can no longer drink, but it is an irritant.

Also, it's worth mentioning that when properly aged, it sometimes stops being butthurt and turns into plain old hatred.  Not always, but sometimes, and for me it's usually based on the reason for the butthurt.

I don't hate you, for example, but I hate Kai like poison...Even though, to an 3rd party, it would seem that I have less reason to be butthurt at him than I did with respect to you.
I don't keep track of why people are butthurt with me, if I've done something worth hating me over I'm always willing to talk it out but I don't know what that something is.

As far as I'm concerned, you're fine.  I was royally pissed off of the Pope Ludicrous thing for a year or so, but at no point did you imply that I was less than a biped, so I got over it.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2017, 08:05:30 pm
Can this please be the first guy who gets banned for it? He's begging, you guys.

Done.
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 20, 2017, 08:12:57 pm
Can this please be the first guy who gets banned for it? He's begging, you guys.

Done.

YAY!

 :lolchix:
Title: Re: Banning Nazis from PD
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on May 20, 2017, 08:29:56 pm
Can this please be the first guy who gets banned for it? He's begging, you guys.

Done.

YAY!

 :lolchix:

Like I said in announcements, any behavior going forward gets stomped.

This includes mealy-mouthed shit about how "homogeneous societies do better", given the zero evidence for and the counter-examples of the USA and Britain against.