Urgh, this is what I hate about, it is the only site in existence where a perfectly good spam thread can be misused for high quality discussions.  I hate you all.

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Messages - seanfish

Quote from: St. Trollax
Quote from: seanfishUmmm...

Premise 7: Changing the system is necessary, changing the system too fast too soon can have more negative than positive consequences. Feedback loops must be walked out of. Adding energy to them may make them seem to dissipate but actually usually gives them energy to bind on a higher or wider level.

+µ points to seanfish...

you have been paying attention haven't you?

Principia Discussion / Questions Only
September 08, 2003, 03:29:33 AM
What was the topic anyways?

Premise 7: Changing the system is necessary, changing the system too fast too soon can have more negative than positive consequences. Feedback loops must be walked out of. Adding energy to them may make them seem to dissipate but actually usually gives them energy to bind on a higher or wider level.
Principia Discussion / Questions Only
September 06, 2003, 09:55:20 PM
Wasn't he talking to the dog?
Mmmm... but I'm talking self direction here. You set up a maze, I say lo there is a way out of the maze. Maybe not all the time, and maybe not every dimension of it, and maybe not every version of it but there are paths that lead to greater freedom and paths that lead to lesser.

I find myself to be a consistent arguer against absolutism - viewing "transcendence" as a jerking, wrenching, I'm gonna punch my way outta this cultural trap, kind of affair is to me a wrong view.

When you walk freely through the walls of the maze, you may be in it or not in it, of it or not of it but it has ceased to be a maze for you. Putting your feet carefully is the key. As I wrote above, learning how to walk (swim, fly, teleport, temporally transpose etc) metaphysically and metaphorically is the key.
Principia Discussion / Questions Only
September 04, 2003, 05:56:47 AM
And did you also know that his eyes move independently of one another???
Literate Chaotic / The Haiku Game
September 04, 2003, 05:50:37 AM
Peasant! You go farm!
I protect you from all harm!
And seduce your wife!

Next topic: Hey hey we're the Monkees
Principia Discussion / Questions Only
September 03, 2003, 12:33:23 AM
Do I have a choice?
Quote from: St. TrollaxThe feedback loop of the human brain is not an abberation inherent in us, it is the result of society, and possibly deliberate manipulation.
Now... I must first explain a few things about my theories to you...

Premise 1:
Human behaviour is a series of premises arising from conclusions about information.

Premise 2:
Said information is filtered through basic behaviours: i.e. the four F's: Fight, Flight, Food, F*** and others. Conclusions based upon this information are then drawn, determining an initial direction of one's thoughts.

Premise 3:
Filtering is also determined by premises i.e. a feedback loop of judgement caused by prior experience and associations. Premises nested inside premises.

Premise 4:
Logic and thought processes are simply an outgrowth of this basic stucture, a linear continuum of ideas is simply a group of ideas we rationalise as being coherent and consistent with one another.

So that said... the feedback loop...

The feedback loop is emotional castration and mental dessication, leaving an individual as a mentally static emotionally immature and highly sophisticated automaton. A domesticated animal in other words. It is learned through the basic programming of the logic filters (the basic behaviours) and the working of these switches into specific patterns or types of patterns that promote self-denial far ahead of self-acceptance.
This leads to a war between our conditioning and our own opinions, when they conflict we get problems, the severity of the conflict determines the severity of the problem.
The conflict itself is highly complex and it's basic format takes the form of a circular argument...
"Because why?"

This is essentially a distortion of the social contract and the placement of it far ahead (i.e. as always or nearly always ahead of) the self. "Society is important people are not."

OK... My brain's frying... digest this and I'll be back tomorrow...

All agreed, but:

Premise 5: Culture is a part of the information that human nature acts upon to produce behaviours that include more cultural acts. (Culture is here defined as acts that embellish upon, or move away from the four "Fs". For example, a war dance embellishes upon "fight" but doesn't actually kill anyone; Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach is a highly mathematical and technical piece of music that for all it's beauty owes as much to pure thought and a knowledge of the patterns harmonics make when echoed within the human neural structure as it does to the religious dominance of classical music in history).

Premise 6: Culture is a synthesis, a distillation that can teach us far more quickly and efficiently (about) than trial and error through action and self-reflection. If we have to learn absolutely every lesson for ourselves, we end up paralysed as to which lesson to learn first.

Discussion: There are a good many things in culture that serve to oppress us - particularly mainstream culture, particularly corporate-funded marketing culture that seeks to force us into a life of brand-identification.

There are also a vast amount of inspirational works existing in all forms, including other living humans around us all the time, that can lead us out of the nasty feedback loops and into higher levels of thought and consideration (and inevitably at times higher level feedback loops  :lol: )

For me this leads to the following conclusion: it is our duty to find that path, to seek out by ourselves and with the help of others that which will help our internal translation-and-filtration machine grow and develop and thereby (a) find more in what we see (beauty in the path of a raindrop, wisdom in the everyday conversations of those around us, truth in everything) (b) see more around us, and (c) become even more successfully self-directing in the above-described path.
Literate Chaotic / The Haiku Game
September 02, 2003, 11:08:52 PM
Dogs, chimpanzees, but...
Can it be done? Truly done?
One day pigs may fly.

Next topic: a salute to the late, great Jim Henson.
Or Kill Me / Re: Trip One: Here is Definitely Gone...
September 02, 2003, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: St. TrollaxTrip One: Here is Definitely Gone...

Chao time my friends *Hint Hint*

Consider the following quotes and paraphrasements:

Here is Gone

Nothing is true, everything is permissible

We're political non-euclidians george

All boddhisvatahs are caterpillars and all caterpillars are boddhisvatahs

In the midst of the darkest winter I found that there was in me an invincible summer

I will run for shelter, endless summer lift the curse, it feels like nothing matters, in our private universe

And now we're grown up orphans that never knew their names

To open all our eyes and see with the eyes of others

You don't need no friends... Get back your faith again.

Life wears velour trousers, Life totters, Life has a beard. I say to you who are silent: do you see life? He is there and here.

We are all idiots... we have all become private, closed off from each other

Come with me, I'm fading, underneath the light

People have to lose their minds before they can come to their senses.

True empathy is impossible unless one abandons all objectivity in favour of the purely subjective the big one

Questions of science, science and progress cannot speak as loud as my heart

The sound of one eye opening, the universe observing itself.

I am not what I am and I am what I am not

Once observed, once given the look... I become my facticity

Once every human soul was partnered with another. Until one day the gods became angry and split every being in two, creating man and woman think deeper.....

An unexamined life is not worth living

Controversy is the key that asks us things we will not see

No one can believe in things that never change

Julius Caesar and the roman empire, couldn't conquer the blue sky

An unlived life is not worth examining

Philosophy's a liar when your home is your headstone

If you had've told us the truth we would've told you to shove that red pill up your ass

I need a sign... to let me know you're here...

If you can't stand alone, you won't stand tall

It takes Courage to do something different and audacity to do something differently

Release, Surrender, Trust

The warrior of light is never too ashamed to ask for forgiveness

People worship the deeds in the government offices and they don't dare move onto another square of ground if one of the deeds says somebody else owns it.

Stop calling the spade a hole-facilitation device.

I'm not the one who broke you I'm not the one you should fear

This is a private message from your subconscious: "SEND HELP!"

Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed or displaced because of a line in the dirt.

I can't stand without you, and I won't find the answers when you're gone

I won't tear you down, I won't tear you down. To get into the world you wanted

Believe in me, as I believe in you... Tonight

Equality and fraternity must be freely chosen otherwise there is no choice... Osiris is a black god

They talk to me. The birds talk to me. If I go down on my knees.

If there are two things competing for your attention neither of them is important...

Opposites are opposite not equal, you'd have to be a chinaman to think otherwise

What truth? There is no spoon. Then you will see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

So I lost my mind, now I'm ready to find my way

Truth is a whisper and only a choice, nobody hears above this noise.

PS: If you think small, your frame of reference will always be smaller than the big picture.

Oh and did I mention this is the idea and you have to build the discourse around it yourselves :twisted: Language is such a poor framework for communication I thought I might try simon moon's idea of an organisation of imagination. Metastability and all that.
Oh, and if you'd like something to get you going perhaps you might try to uncover where all the music quotes are from. And which philosopher said what if you're that way inclined. But always remember the post-script: If you think small, your frame of reference will always be smaller than the big picture, just as an excercise in seeing the bigger picture (it took longer than the quotes) you might want to pay attention to the law of fives here. Every first and fifth quote relates to each other, remember the Discordian mandala? That's what's happening. Pick any quote as 1. Count from there to five either up or down and they will be related. There are positive and negative associations in here; there are also totally absurd ones, that is to be expected it's an idea, and therefore nebulous not coherent..... this is my attempt to communicate an idea rather than a series of words. Can you se what I am driving in those quotes?

God's Pajamas!

Tags Zenji

I'll only meet many words with more words... but to give you my impression of what you mean, I quote you:

Quote from: WeenFreedom of the body
Freedom of the mind
A ho on South Street hired for tricks
Little girls pickin' up sticks
Freedom of '76

Wastee little weasel
Wants cheap tricks
Liberty bell cracked in half
A bacon steak
A perfect match
Freedom of '76

My girl Sasha
Lookin' good on the street
"Mannequin" was filmed at Woolworth's
Boyz II Men still keepin' up the beat, yeah
Freedom of '76

Fairmount Park in the summer
Lookin' good on the street
"Mannequin" was filmed at Woolworth's
Boyz II Men still keepin' up the beat, yeah
Freedom of '76, nah yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Ohh, baby, yeah yeah, yeah

Principia Discussion / Questions Only
September 02, 2003, 08:54:55 PM
Now you ask me to sit???
Literate Chaotic / Plato
September 01, 2003, 09:33:43 AM
"We see through a glass darkly"
Corinthians 13:12

Thus proving that even the devil himself can quote the bible for his own purposes.  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

Weird news from the wall of my personal cave btw... for some reason the emoticons on this page have stopped animating and are stuck partway through their cycles. The  :roll: guy looks reeeealy stoned.


I know what you mean about living life by the cave allegory, Trollax... it's the basis of my whole practice of not making too many judgements, and not worrying too much about the reality of what I see. Living that way actually provides a great deal of insight (as differentiated from judgement) into what's going on, so long as you remember to let it go and move on.
Literate Chaotic / Robert Anton Wilson
September 01, 2003, 09:26:03 AM
Just got the Illuminatus trilogy from some fucknuts little library so small it looks like a burst pimple on the map of even my tiny country. Why the hell do they have it and my (the largest in the southern hemisphere) public library doesn't?

Because our buyers, and I know them personally, don't think outside the box too much when it comes to fiction. Top ten, a wave thrown at genre so mainstream you could weep and a trickle for the real freaks out there. Oh well.

All ranting aside, I'm super-pleased.
Excellent stuff - I really agree with that "don't be for or against, choose another (your own) path" bit.