So there's this game that has a fairly modest but fanatical following out in the gamerculture called Warhammer 40k. Set in the year 40,000, humanity lives in all corners of the galaxy and has a central government of sorts on the world of Holy Terra. That would be Earth after several apocalypses, failed petty interstellar empires, and colonization attempts. Then something like the year 30,000 or so a hyper-human perfect being stepped up from the population of Earth, unified the techno-barbarian tribes, re established a peace with the Martian colony, and ultimately began the impossible task of establishing a unified Galactic Empire of Humanity. He is known only as the Emperor in all established records of the setting and was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to humanity.
To make a long, epicly styled, and marvelous story short, The Emperor is betrayed by one of his clone-generals and the Empire nearly falls to the forces of Chaos. I do not mean nice, cutesy chaos either. Raw forces of sentient corruption and madness that hunger beyond the walls of spacetime. The kind that make you eat your family for kicks and burn whole worlds to test a new toy.
The corrupted general is defeated but the Emperor is mostly slain also after the cataclysmic final battle. He had by this point long since ushered in a Platinum Age, you could say, as marvels of technology and psionic power beyond imagining called the Golden Throne allowed his spirit to cling to his mostly dead body and produce a beacon on Holy Terra called the Astronomican. This beacon is a guide to all ships traveling through the Warp to reach other worlds of the still enduring, but stunted, Imperium of Man.
I won't take up the whole intro with explanation of the setting. There's A LOT. But I'm setting up this thread for general discussion of the game and the story. If you're a noob to 40k feel free to ask something if you didn't understand the stuff you're about to hear. READ THE THREAD FIRST PLEASE as the topic will develop Emperor knows where and your question may well have already been covered.
I would very much like to avoid the minutiae of game mechanics, but won't care too much if it's relevant to what's being talked about. I just don't want to get bogged down too much by it.
So Howl, I really like the Mechanicum concept and the Machine God. For all of the ritualistic and baroque tone of the setting the Mechanicum stands out as both not worshipping the Emperor and as a power in its own right. This despite being in the same system with the center of Galactic politics. Also Titans. I want a real one.
How do you see the concept in 40k, and when you speak of it here in more realistic terms how might it differ?
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:34:05 AM
So Howl, I really like the Mechanicum concept and the Machine God. For all of the ritualistic and baroque tone of the setting the Mechanicum stands out as both not worshipping the Emperor and as a power in its own right. This despite being in the same system with the center of Galactic politics. Also Titans. I want a real one.
How do you see the concept in 40k, and when you speak of it here in more realistic terms how might it differ?
I'll get to this tomorrow. And I'll holler at Richter. He's sort of the high priest.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 20, 2015, 03:46:08 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:34:05 AM
So Howl, I really like the Mechanicum concept and the Machine God. For all of the ritualistic and baroque tone of the setting the Mechanicum stands out as both not worshipping the Emperor and as a power in its own right. This despite being in the same system with the center of Galactic politics. Also Titans. I want a real one.
How do you see the concept in 40k, and when you speak of it here in more realistic terms how might it differ?
I'll get to this tomorrow. And I'll holler at Richter. He's sort of the high priest.
Awesome! Never a rush on this one. I'm only able to get so many posts out per day too. REALLY hands on job AND I'm slow at both typing and thinking about what to say if I'm also doing other stuff.
Hail Tzeentch, Changer of Ways.
WH40K is the single most hilarious thing Games Workshop has ever done. I never played the tabletop version, I preferred Fantasy Warhammer (High Elves, Dogs of War), but the setting is so purposefully GRIMDARK it becomes a self-perpetuating parody of itself, while remaining aware of the fact. It's actually pretty brilliant.
Quote from: Cain on February 20, 2015, 11:58:57 AM
WH40K is the single most hilarious thing Games Workshop has ever done. I never played the tabletop version, I preferred Fantasy Warhammer (High Elves, Dogs of War), but the setting is so purposefully GRIMDARK it becomes a self-perpetuating parody of itself, while remaining aware of the fact. It's actually pretty brilliant.
I love it for that. I think GRIMDARK might have even come from 40k (In the grim darkness of...).
I'm not particularly interested in the money sink the miniatures are, but I've had fun with a few video games and novels. It's brain candy. I can imagine it's just a blast churning out one of those books. Writing about Nurgle is like a 10 year old boy going on for entire paragraphs about boogers in typically over the top style. I hear Dan Abnett's stuff in the setting is actually quite good though.
I cant speak to Abnett's novels, but Sandy Mictchell's are hilarious. He has the dark comedy down perfect, and having the novels focus on the cannon fodder that are the Imperial Guard was an inspired touch.
I loved the sense of over the top horror and warfare. You don't just go to war you "purge the Xenos threat from the far flung halo star systems by the will of the Emperor" and drop several kinds of hell and space marines from orbit.
The stunted culture is also a bit of horrormirth in that it is comically exaggerated but not entirely outside the realm of human thought. People have been purged in history for one form or another of the basic things the Imperium will not, CAN NOT, tolerate. Space turns out to be the ever present threat our politicians can only dream of.. but would wake in a cold sweat if they did.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 20, 2015, 03:46:08 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:34:05 AM
So Howl, I really like the Mechanicum concept and the Machine God. For all of the ritualistic and baroque tone of the setting the Mechanicum stands out as both not worshipping the Emperor and as a power in its own right. This despite being in the same system with the center of Galactic politics. Also Titans. I want a real one.
How do you see the concept in 40k, and when you speak of it here in more realistic terms how might it differ?
I'll get to this tomorrow. And I'll holler at Richter. He's sort of the high priest.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is at the same time the custodian / provider / regulator of all technology, and a group mired in routine / ritual when it comes to any construction or maintenance.
A Mechanicus Techpriest is at best able to fix anything with enthusiasm. They live for that shit. At worst they're the guys who won't close the cowling and re start the engine on a crashing spacecraft because they haven't finished the proper chants to the fuel distributor cap and applied the necessary anointing lubricants. They do all this to praise the Mahcine God (present in all apparati), and respect the individual anima of whatever projects they are working on.
This is not to say there are not average Joe mechanics running around. To get the flavor, imagine car mechanics as lay-priests, and the whole works like a monastery crossed with a machine shop. More when consciousness allows. Dan Abnett wrote up a great description of these folks in action in the 2nd book of his Eisenhorn trilogy. (solomon Kane in space - check it out if you can)
Sounds like I got 3 cheers for the novels. Might have to look into them. I've read "the fluff" as they say from the core rules and many a codex, even a few of the new ones. Also read much material from an RPG series called 'Deathwatch'. The RPG explores other aspects of the 40K universe, but all the Deathwatch supplements focus on Space Marines seconded from their home chapters to kill Xenos specifically. Great read, but the RPG system is a bloodbath and space marines fairly boring characters out of battle. It was pretty cool for all that. Players get clever when they start to realize they're a suprise round away from messy death just about all the time.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:33:28 AM
So there's this game that has a fairly modest but fanatical following out in the gamerculture called Warhammer 40k. Set in the year 40,000, humanity lives in all corners of the galaxy and has a central government of sorts on the world of Holy Terra. That would be Earth after several apocalypses, failed petty interstellar empires, and colonization attempts. Then something like the year 30,000 or so a hyper-human perfect being stepped up from the population of Earth, unified the techno-barbarian tribes, re established a peace with the Martian colony, and ultimately began the impossible task of establishing a unified Galactic Empire of Humanity. He is known only as the Emperor in all established records of the setting and was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to humanity.
To make a long, epicly styled, and marvelous story short, The Emperor is betrayed by one of his clone-generals and the Empire nearly falls to the forces of Chaos. I do not mean nice, cutesy chaos either. Raw forces of sentient corruption and madness that hunger beyond the walls of spacetime. The kind that make you eat your family for kicks and burn whole worlds to test a new toy.
That's kind of a biased account. The forces of chaos are evil, but (assuming that the party line is true and the emperor is conscious and in control and that the Adeptus haven't simply been running a 10000 year long rehash of
Weekend at Bernie's) the Emperor of Mankind is pretty evil to. He's so evil he makes the emperor from Star Wars look like a hippie by comparison.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 15, 2015, 04:42:57 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:33:28 AM
So there's this game that has a fairly modest but fanatical following out in the gamerculture called Warhammer 40k. Set in the year 40,000, humanity lives in all corners of the galaxy and has a central government of sorts on the world of Holy Terra. That would be Earth after several apocalypses, failed petty interstellar empires, and colonization attempts. Then something like the year 30,000 or so a hyper-human perfect being stepped up from the population of Earth, unified the techno-barbarian tribes, re established a peace with the Martian colony, and ultimately began the impossible task of establishing a unified Galactic Empire of Humanity. He is known only as the Emperor in all established records of the setting and was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to humanity.
To make a long, epicly styled, and marvelous story short, The Emperor is betrayed by one of his clone-generals and the Empire nearly falls to the forces of Chaos. I do not mean nice, cutesy chaos either. Raw forces of sentient corruption and madness that hunger beyond the walls of spacetime. The kind that make you eat your family for kicks and burn whole worlds to test a new toy.
That's kind of a biased account. The forces of chaos are evil, but (assuming that the party line is true and the emperor is conscious and in control and that the Adeptus haven't simply been running a 10000 year long rehash of Weekend at Bernie's) the Emperor of Mankind is pretty evil to. He's so evil he makes the emperor from Star Wars look like a hippie by comparison.
Yeah, but part of the whole point of the setting is that it's a galaxy where everyone
has to be evil. The closest we have to a non-evil faction are the Tau, and they're a) gonna get curbstomped any day now, and b) implied to have some 1984 shit going on themselves. In order of least to most evil, I'd say it goes something like this:
>Tau
>Eldar
>Imperium
>Necrons
>Tyranids
>Orks
>Chaos
>Dark Eldar
There may be a little quibbling around the middle, but I think that's roughly the order.
Not to mention Wizard Joseph said he was the best and worst thing to ever happen to humanity.
But that's not enough to satisfy PDS's inner pedant. Nothing ever is.
Quote from: Cain on June 15, 2015, 07:05:49 PM
Not to mention Wizard Joseph said he was the best and worst thing to ever happen to humanity.
But that's not enough to satisfy PDS's inner pedant. Nothing ever is.
Hey, the bit about
Weekend At Bernie's did get a sensible chuckle out of me.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on February 20, 2015, 11:58:36 AM
Hail Tzeentch, Changer of Ways.
Gork and Mork kud take 'im, any day of der week.
Quote from: President Television on June 15, 2015, 05:59:23 PM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on June 15, 2015, 04:42:57 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on February 20, 2015, 03:33:28 AM
So there's this game that has a fairly modest but fanatical following out in the gamerculture called Warhammer 40k. Set in the year 40,000, humanity lives in all corners of the galaxy and has a central government of sorts on the world of Holy Terra. That would be Earth after several apocalypses, failed petty interstellar empires, and colonization attempts. Then something like the year 30,000 or so a hyper-human perfect being stepped up from the population of Earth, unified the techno-barbarian tribes, re established a peace with the Martian colony, and ultimately began the impossible task of establishing a unified Galactic Empire of Humanity. He is known only as the Emperor in all established records of the setting and was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to humanity.
To make a long, epicly styled, and marvelous story short, The Emperor is betrayed by one of his clone-generals and the Empire nearly falls to the forces of Chaos. I do not mean nice, cutesy chaos either. Raw forces of sentient corruption and madness that hunger beyond the walls of spacetime. The kind that make you eat your family for kicks and burn whole worlds to test a new toy.
That's kind of a biased account. The forces of chaos are evil, but (assuming that the party line is true and the emperor is conscious and in control and that the Adeptus haven't simply been running a 10000 year long rehash of Weekend at Bernie's) the Emperor of Mankind is pretty evil to. He's so evil he makes the emperor from Star Wars look like a hippie by comparison.
Yeah, but part of the whole point of the setting is that it's a galaxy where everyone has to be evil. The closest we have to a non-evil faction are the Tau, and they're a) gonna get curbstomped any day now, and b) implied to have some 1984 shit going on themselves. In order of least to most evil, I'd say it goes something like this:
>Tau
>Eldar
>Imperium
>Necrons
>Tyranids
>Orks
>Chaos
>Dark Eldar
There may be a little quibbling around the middle, but I think that's roughly the order.
Switch Orks and Imperium, and you'd be about right. And then switch Tau and Orks. And then Nids and Chaos. Orks aren't waging a war on anyone because reasons, they just love to fight. They're serious about having a good time. The Emperor is such a fuckball, he deserves to at least be third. Nids are going to destroy all the things, and they're the ones running from something. D'Eldar, though, you got that on the nose. Fuck them.
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Well, here's my reasoning:
>Tau do everything for the Greater Good and seem to be the least belligerent faction overall, even being willing to engage in diplomacy. They're "good" by virtue of having no plans for genocide.
>Eldar are huge dicks who exploit everyone else for the benefit of the Eldar race, but like the Tau, are ok with the survival of other races and don't really make any more trouble than they have to.
>Imperium are Catholic Space Nazis. They want to kill everyone else because the horrors of the galaxy have given them collective shell shock and they've learned millennia ago that nobody can be trusted. They're evil because they're paranoid and fearful.
>Necrons are arguably less evil than the Imperium in the new lore, but fall lower due to roughly half of them being mindless death machines. The intelligent ones mostly just want to rebuild some vestige of their long-dead empire and take back stolen artifacts. Have cooperated with Space Marines in the past.
>Tyranids have caused widespread destruction and misery for every faction except the ones that are into that sort of thing. They aren't really evil in the sense of active malice, but they've probably killed more people than all the other factions combined and their weapons tend to be unbelievably cruel.
>Orks, as noted above, are the backwater savages of WH40k. They just want to fight everyone for their own amusement, and they don't really seem to understand the concept that other races value their lives.
>Chaos is super evil. Read up on the Daemonculaba (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Daemonculaba) if you don't believe me.
>Dark Eldar are even worse, their entire culture revolves around rape and torture and their spaceships are literally fueled by suffering.
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:51:20 PM
Well, here's my reasoning:
>Tau do everything for the Greater Good and seem to be the least belligerent faction overall, even being willing to engage in diplomacy. They're "good" by virtue of having no plans for genocide.
>Eldar are huge dicks who exploit everyone else for the benefit of the Eldar race, but like the Tau, are ok with the survival of other races and don't really make any more trouble than they have to.
>Imperium are Catholic Space Nazis. They want to kill everyone else because the horrors of the galaxy have given them collective shell shock and they've learned millennia ago that nobody can be trusted. They're evil because they're paranoid and fearful.
>Necrons are arguably less evil than the Imperium in the new lore, but fall lower due to roughly half of them being mindless death machines. The intelligent ones mostly just want to rebuild some vestige of their long-dead empire and take back stolen artifacts. Have cooperated with Space Marines in the past.
>Tyranids have caused widespread destruction and misery for every faction except the ones that are into that sort of thing. They aren't really evil in the sense of active malice, but they've probably killed more people than all the other factions combined and their weapons tend to be unbelievably cruel.
>Orks, as noted above, are the backwater savages of WH40k. They just want to fight everyone for their own amusement, and they don't really seem to understand the concept that other races value their lives.
>Chaos is super evil. Read up on the Daemonculaba (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Daemonculaba) if you don't believe me.
>Dark Eldar are even worse, their entire culture revolves around rape and torture and their spaceships are literally fueled by suffering.
Apparently the latest versions of WH40K have eviled up the Tau a bit, by claiming they wipe out populations who refuse to integrate into the Tau Empire and serve the Greater Good. They're still
by far the most moral faction in that Universe, but they've adapted them to be "for the greater good" extremists, Stalinist space communists essentially.
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
So.... that quote was referring to the plant all this time? Huh. I completely misunderstood it all this time.
I guess the world is not as bad as i thought if all these rape, loot and plunder stories from the past are about rapeseed-oil and not about forced sex.
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 21, 2015, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
So.... that quote was referring to the plant all this time? Huh. I completely misunderstood it all this time.
I guess the world is not as bad as i thought if all these rape, loot and plunder stories from the past are about rapeseed-oil and not about forced sex.
If you're going to be a pedantic ass, for fuck's sake at least make sure you're
right first.
Quoterape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).
Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.
rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rape
Also I would generally recommend against trying to pull a pedant move on Cain, in general, because it is a near guarantee that you will be wrong.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 21, 2015, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 21, 2015, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
So.... that quote was referring to the plant all this time? Huh. I completely misunderstood it all this time.
I guess the world is not as bad as i thought if all these rape, loot and plunder stories from the past are about rapeseed-oil and not about forced sex.
If you're going to be a pedantic ass, for fuck's sake at least make sure you're right first.
Quoterape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).
Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.
rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rape
Also I would generally recommend against trying to pull a pedant move on Cain, in general, because it is a near guarantee that you will be wrong.
Failing when battling a master is more fun than winning when battling the ignorant.
Also, more educational. Your link taught me something, thanks! :)
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 21, 2015, 10:02:36 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 21, 2015, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 21, 2015, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
So.... that quote was referring to the plant all this time? Huh. I completely misunderstood it all this time.
I guess the world is not as bad as i thought if all these rape, loot and plunder stories from the past are about rapeseed-oil and not about forced sex.
If you're going to be a pedantic ass, for fuck's sake at least make sure you're right first.
Quoterape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).
Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.
rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rape
Also I would generally recommend against trying to pull a pedant move on Cain, in general, because it is a near guarantee that you will be wrong.
Failing when battling a master is more fun than winning when battling the ignorant.
Also, more educational. Your link taught me something, thanks! :)
"Battling" and "Randomly sniping at" are two different things. Seriously, I've said it before, but if you're going to be a dick about something, at least be right.
If you're not, you risk turning into Holist, and then no one talks to you. This is a well-intentioned heads up not to fall into that habit.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 21, 2015, 06:20:57 PM
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 21, 2015, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: President Television on June 21, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
Quote from: Cain on June 21, 2015, 11:35:50 AM
The Ork idea of a good time does involve the sack, rape and pillage of entire systems though. I think you could argue the Imperium for a lesser evil simply because while it is cruel and vicious it is not arbitrarily so. They will wipe out an entire planet with orbital bombardment, but they'll do it to contain heretics, not because they thought it was fun. I mean, Orks are the jokey, lighthearted faction in WH40K, but they're still basically massive bastards.
Hey, Orks don't rape anyone. This is entirely because they're ambulatory algae with no genitals or concept of sexuality, but they still don't rape anyone.
Sorry, should've been more clear, I meant rape in the sense of "rape, loot and plunder" ie; killing and stealing, not the other kind.
So.... that quote was referring to the plant all this time? Huh. I completely misunderstood it all this time.
I guess the world is not as bad as i thought if all these rape, loot and plunder stories from the past are about rapeseed-oil and not about forced sex.
If you're going to be a pedantic ass, for fuck's sake at least make sure you're right first.
Quoterape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).
Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.
rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rape
Also I would generally recommend against trying to pull a pedant move on Cain, in general, because it is a near guarantee that you will be wrong.
I, too, was unaware of that meaning.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/7/7c/Themoreyouknow.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081023004830)
They might rape loot and plunder, but it has to be said that treachery is built into their system of hierarchy, so that it isn't a complete bloody mess when it happens (I'm looking at you, Horus Heresy).
And you're right, Cain. They are MASSIVE bastards, but they're still better than, say, Space Wolves.
"What? There's no wolves on Fenris? But..." -looks at approaching Wolf Cavalry-
Lack of classical literature/history majors, ITT
See, this is what happens when we abandon a core approach to education that served us for the best part of 900 years. Boris Johnson would've known exactly what I was talking about.
Yeah, common modern usage for that definition of rape might be the verb from of plunder. The common definition of rape is neatly sidestepped in 40K by means of several setting devices. Most notably the genderless biology of Orcs and the process of making someone into a space marine involves many bio-implants but for most marine chapters removal of functional genitalia in favor of two separate synthetic "progenoid" glands. These produce "geneseed" source material for the next generation of marine implants. This makes any loss or corruption of such a true blasphemy to all Imperial Marines and just a good old time for Chaos Marines.
The Dark Eldar are the only point where sexual rapine is anywhere near cannon, but actually they are worse than that. They NEED suffering and over eons have found forms literally unimaginable to us. Games Workshop tastefully leaves it there, as will I.
I DO got a story fulla orky know-whats bakin' up in my soft 'umie noggins. Bouta Ork named Dugzug.
He a slave inna Tau experiment world, but he don't know that. He da most dangerous Ork ever seen since the pinkskin 'umies took over da stars, but he don't know dat either. Dugzug izza brain boy, but da Tau don't know that. Dugzug don't know dat either, but he gonna find out real soon!
Yeah, a lot of kids and teens play Warhammer, so Games Workshop is probably careful about going in for that kind of stuff too much. Dark Elves/Eldar and Slaanesh aside, of course. Hell, I must've been introduced to Warhammer Fantasy when I was around 13 or so.
Speaking of Fantasy, anyone here still play, and tried Age of Sigmar yet?
I haven't played since 7th edition was first out :lol:
Never even heard of Age of Sigmar up until now.
Warhammer of whatever sort seems particular able to fascinate and of my friends that actually play.. they are REALLY into it, 40k mostly. Although much less familiar with the fantasy side and it's story, I like the models better. I think this just reflects a taste for fantasy over scifi generally, but even the 40k material is full of mystical things. This I think I like best, the blending of elements of both. Also kind of a freak for Shadowrun for this reason.
Quote from: Cain on July 12, 2015, 03:09:57 AM
I haven't played since 7th edition was first out :lol:
Never even heard of Age of Sigmar up until now.
Age of Sigmar just came out, they don't even have all the base rules yet. Didn't stop them from selling a starter box, but whatever.
It's a completely different game, enough that the Fantasy crowd here had a major hissy fit, talked shit about Games Workshop, and have since stopped playing completely. My friend, who owns the game store I frequent, has never seen anything like this from the GW community, he says.
I tried it, and it was fun. Not balanced by any means, but still pretty fun. Best part is, the rules are free for now and forever, and it doesn't care what your models are as long as have something appropriately sized.
Quote from: Choppas an' Sluggas on July 18, 2015, 12:01:19 AM
Quote from: Cain on July 12, 2015, 03:09:57 AM
I haven't played since 7th edition was first out :lol:
Never even heard of Age of Sigmar up until now.
Age of Sigmar just came out, they don't even have all the base rules yet. Didn't stop them from selling a starter box, but whatever.
It's a completely different game, enough that the Fantasy crowd here had a major hissy fit, talked shit about Games Workshop, and have since stopped playing completely. My friend, who owns the game store I frequent, has never seen anything like this from the GW community, he says.
I tried it, and it was fun. Not balanced by any means, but still pretty fun. Best part is, the rules are free for now and forever, and it doesn't care what your models are as long as have something appropriately sized.
See I like the idea of playing under alternative rules with a bunch of old boardgame pieces and toy trucks or something. It could be a great way to build up the player base over time and get folks into the more formal games. I certainly don't play in part because I have no taste for model hobbies and won't pay vast sums for an army worth playing. Having read the books and with a fair grasp of the rules I've been offered "spare armies" at reasonable prices and know exactly how that would go. I pay money so they can get a new Dreadnought model, then they get to spank the army sold with it.
Nothing worse than a shady Warhammer dealer.
I'll have to ask around about this Age of Sigmar thing and see what reactions I get.
So I found myself watching a documentary on The Emperor and the history of the 40K setting. I have only gotten half way through the first video, but it's amazing, dark, and beautiful art abounds. I was reminded of this thread and want to post the links here.
The Emperor of Man
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyPjE1Sn-Ts&t=1284s
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F3y2bJzDJQ
Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riyVcdAOOC4
Dok Howl told me about this shit and once I cracked into it I almost died of heresy. BEST satire on 40K ever hands down.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmiWoT3mqQMLFP9Hg420dsg
This made me cry a little bit. Happy battle tears.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qm52p9BXh60