When did money become more important than happiness? I made a considerable amount of money when I worked for Walgreen's, the only happiness it brought me was that I was able to afford my habits, drinking, smoking, morphine. That last one is a vice that I was never able to rid myself of. Is it wrong to also admit that I actually enjoyed being in a drug induced haze? "It's bad for you." So is fast food, sunlight, tainted water, breathing exhaust fumes! For god's sake its even bad for you to exercise too much! Why when a drug addict overdoses on, say, cocaine and has a heart attack that its such a sin, but when some fat fuck over eats McDonalds and dies of a heart attack that its such a tragedy?! Since when does it make more sense that a drug addict has any more control over his/her actions than a fatty? At some point in time, I had read that addiction is a disease. What happened to that? Just because I want to gorge myself on morphine and block out my reality it makes me selfish? And if that's any better, doctors even treat patients different. A fat person comes in with shortness of breath and they take wonderful care of them, make sure that they are comfortable etc. But I walked into a hospital emergency room and told the receptionist, "I just took 26 klonopin and I was advised by poison control to come to a hospital." They didn't do much at all. They stuck me with needles made me take a piss test to CONFIRM, mind you, that I was drugged out, and then left me in the ER for eight hours then shoved me into a behavioral health facility...
I'm ranting now.
The fucking nurses that stuck me with needles kept missing my goddamn veins. But I knew that they were just trying to make me suffer through this, try to teach me a goddamn lesson. What do they do to the fat people? Give them a new diet and send them on their merry way. They don't stick a fat person in rehab because they gorged themselves on cheeseburgers and had cardiac failure, NO!!! they only send them there when they try to kill themselves because of HOW FAT THEY GOT!!!!!!
I am now red faced and angry...just from typing this out. It was three years in August when I OD'ed on Klonopin. Two miserable years of them trying to medicate me, diagnosing me as bipolar, and making me sit through fucking sessions with a doctor who TRULY did not care whether I killed myself...They were only there because they couldn't find anything better, jobwise, in a town that has more homeless people per capita than there are fish in the sea.
The joys of the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System. They have free healthcare, but you have to jump through hoops, to prove that you are underpaid, unemployed, broke, or downright homeless! If we weren't pouring all of our resources into fucking idiotic projects such as a new freeway or into making more speedtraps to catch speeders! Don't you think that our priorities are a little out of order?
Where the hell did that letter go?
Its all anger, thats all I can say. The terrible thing right now is that I'm fantasizing about busting my knuckles on a wall just so I can use it as an excuse to 1. get painkillers, and 2. feel something other than the pounding waves of depression against the inside of my skull and 3. so I have an excuse to be gone for hours on end with out telling anyone. Now who's priorities are fucked up?
Did I lose you?
I lost myself.
The problem with me? I hold onto things, I hold grudges...
Pardon my use of the "f" word so many times. Angry letters... and such.
I don't really feel sorry for druggies OR obese people.
Druggies, as a rule, are more dangerous, though, as in more likely to steal your shit or hurt you.
Nivek,
Unfortunately, the people you advocate have the wrong values, and don't believe in the basic goodness of the Free Market. You see, grinding poverty, shitty diets, and drug addiction are all matters of personal responsibility, and if we "helped" these people, they'd have no incentive to not die in various awful ways.
The Free Market loves you, Nivek, and it wants you to be happy. It's just your bad attitude that keeps you from having all those wonderful things you see on TV...You just don't BELIEVE enough. Neither do the unfortunates that you refer to.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 27, 2009, 11:24:04 PM
Nivek,
Unfortunately, the people you advocate have the wrong values, and don't believe in the basic goodness of the Free Market. You see, grinding poverty, shitty diets, and drug addiction are all matters of personal responsibility, and if we "helped" these people, they'd have no incentive to not die in various awful ways.
The Free Market loves you, Nivek, and it wants you to be happy. It's just your bad attitude that keeps you from having all those wonderful things you see on TV...You just don't BELIEVE enough. Neither do the unfortunates that you refer to.
So, in other words the "Curlies" of society are the ones that are being tossed aside, wanting to have a "good time" by means of mutilating themselves i.e. drinking, eating delicious food, etc means being tossed aside for the sake of the "greater good." Now, pardon me I'm coming down from my caffiene high and need to inject myself with more coffee before i crash...
Quote from: Nigel on October 27, 2009, 10:32:23 PM
I don't really feel sorry for druggies OR obese people.
Druggies, as a rule, are more dangerous, though, as in more likely to steal your shit or hurt you.
I don't advocate drug use in extremes, I have dealt with the ones that stole my shit. The one thing that people turn a blind eye to is that it can be treated as much as a disease can. I understand where your coming from though, and the majority of drug users I don't sympathize with at all. Thanks for you input though.
Ok, this thing seriously got to me.
Having a friend who suffers from Heroin Addiction, I know exactly what you mean.
It's fucked up how they treat people that should be considered patients, people who need help, not to be brushed under the rug with the hope that people won't notice.
And yes, while some drug addicts are fucked up and steal shit... some people will never compromise their morals no matter how addicted they are, and they get treated as badly as those that will and do.
Quote from: Lysergic on October 28, 2009, 03:25:26 AM
Ok, this thing seriously got to me.
Having a friend who suffers from Heroin Addiction, I know exactly what you mean.
It's fucked up how they treat people that should be considered patients, people who need help, not to be brushed under the rug with the hope that people won't notice.
And yes, while some drug addicts are fucked up and steal shit... some people will never compromise their morals no matter how addicted they are, and they get treated as badly as those that will and do.
Thank you. You got the point of the rant completely. I wish the best for your friend by the way. Its difficult battling something so highly addictive and keeping people around you that will actually support through the ordeal. Most people view it as weakness and as a loss and they write them off completely.
I consider myself a drug user. Fortunately although I have an addictive personality it has never settled on one medium. I can be addicted to the internet for a while, to marijuana for a while, acohol for a while, something hard another while. I don't consider myself an addict because it is never one of them for very long. I think i have sympathy for the majority of drug users. most of them just want a little something to take the edge off of a day.
I also know that if I had been asked to sit, after a few hours I would ask if treatment was required, and then I would have left. If all you need is 8 hours of sitting, well hell, might as well go home and sit somewhere you can enjoy the klonapin (if there is anything enjoyable about it. i have not tried that particular pill.)
I also wouldn't call poison control again, as I would feel they had lied to me. As may be obvious, I don't have much respect for authorities. (also not fond of hospitals)
The fat man with the heart attack gets more attention, because he is dying. If he came in to tell them he had eaten too much cake, they would make him sit, and then probably send him to a behavioral specialist. If Klonapin can give you a heart attack, and if it did, then you would also receive rather prompt attention I imagine.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 28, 2009, 02:56:30 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 27, 2009, 11:24:04 PM
Nivek,
Unfortunately, the people you advocate have the wrong values, and don't believe in the basic goodness of the Free Market. You see, grinding poverty, shitty diets, and drug addiction are all matters of personal responsibility, and if we "helped" these people, they'd have no incentive to not die in various awful ways.
The Free Market loves you, Nivek, and it wants you to be happy. It's just your bad attitude that keeps you from having all those wonderful things you see on TV...You just don't BELIEVE enough. Neither do the unfortunates that you refer to.
So, in other words the "Curlies" of society are the ones that are being tossed aside, wanting to have a "good time" by means of mutilating themselves i.e. drinking, eating delicious food, etc means being tossed aside for the sake of the "greater good." Now, pardon me I'm coming down from my caffiene high and need to inject myself with more coffee before i crash...
No, Curly was dealt with because be believed the
wrong things. He had the wrong values, they say, and he laughed at all the wrong jokes. He was a danger to the American Way. There was really no choice.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 28, 2009, 03:41:34 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 28, 2009, 03:25:26 AM
Ok, this thing seriously got to me.
Having a friend who suffers from Heroin Addiction, I know exactly what you mean.
It's fucked up how they treat people that should be considered patients, people who need help, not to be brushed under the rug with the hope that people won't notice.
And yes, while some drug addicts are fucked up and steal shit... some people will never compromise their morals no matter how addicted they are, and they get treated as badly as those that will and do.
Thank you. You got the point of the rant completely. I wish the best for your friend by the way. Its difficult battling something so highly addictive and keeping people around you that will actually support through the ordeal. Most people view it as weakness and as a loss and they write them off completely.
I was married to a heroin addict. Sometime "writing people off" is simply pure self-preservation. I still pity him, but I want nothing to do with him because he was a bad person for me to be around, and he consistently made bad choices that made his life worse. Perhaps he didn't know how to do any different, but that doesn't make me respect him.
I don't hate drug addicts any more than I hate fat people, but outside of my romantic life I have a pretty good spidey-sense for when people are going to be bad for me, and I disentangle.
I'm not anti-drugs, either, by any means, but I have repeatedly seen people make bad choices that led them down a road to destructive addiction, and I don't want people who make those kinds of bad decisions in my life because it WILL effect my quality of life, my stress level, and my ability to provide a healthy environment for my kids. Self-preservation.
I do have to say that when my friend had a bad reaction to Amanita Muscaria, the hospital staff were very nice to us. If she did it a second time, I wouldn't expect them to be quite so nice.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 07:10:08 PM
Sometime "writing people off" is simply pure self-preservation.
Pure fact.
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 28, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
The fat man with the heart attack gets more attention, because he is dying. If he came in to tell them he had eaten too much cake, they would make him sit, and then probably send him to a behavioral specialist. If Klonapin can give you a heart attack, and if it did, then you would also receive rather prompt attention I imagine.
This.
Also, Nivek, you took 26 Klonopin, of your own volition, and you're angry that they... what? Didn't give you the
attention you thought you deserved? What the fuck is a reasonable person supposed to do when presented with a young woman who has swallowed TWENTY-SIX Klonopin? I know what I would do. I would check your blood levels, I would tell you to sit your dumb ass down while I looked up whether you were gonna die, and if you didn't actually require physical treatment I'd call mental health and see if I could get you some mental treatment, because young lady, that there is a psychological problem.
The fact that you're mad... red-faced, shaking mad... that you didn't get enough
attention kind of spells it all out, don't you think?
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: BabylonHoruv on October 28, 2009, 11:21:27 AM
The fat man with the heart attack gets more attention, because he is dying. If he came in to tell them he had eaten too much cake, they would make him sit, and then probably send him to a behavioral specialist. If Klonapin can give you a heart attack, and if it did, then you would also receive rather prompt attention I imagine.
This.
Also, Nivek, you took 26 Klonopin, of your own volition, and you're angry that they... what? Didn't give you the attention you thought you deserved? What the fuck is a reasonable person supposed to do when presented with a young woman who has swallowed TWENTY-SIX Klonopin? I know what I would do. I would check your blood levels, I would tell you to sit your dumb ass down while I looked up whether you were gonna die, and if you didn't actually require physical treatment I'd call mental health and see if I could get you some mental treatment, because young lady, that there is a psychological problem.
The fact that you're mad... red-faced, shaking mad... that you didn't get enough attention kind of spells it all out, don't you think?
A couple of minor notes:
1. Nobody in Tucson is reasonable. Even the doctors and cops and EMTs are nuts. Not shitting you about this. The EMTs that drove me to the hospital last go-round were like manic Gahan Wilson characters.
2. Nivek is young now, was younger then, and is thus licensed to do Dumb Things. Also, she lives in Tucson, and is thus as about as reasonable as anyone else here. Yours truly included. Suicide is an art form in Tucson. So is sniping. They are simply art forms that I do not practice, and thankfully no longer does Nivek. Well, the suicide one, anyway. Who the fuck knows if she's been sniping? Not me. I never ask what the hell she's doing on that overpass. It would be nosy.
Rude.
3. I took it as a rant about the incompetence of the doctors and the level of
medical attention, rather than oohing and ahhing about the poor dear in their waiting room, but I will re-read it, because I may have read it wrong.
Okay, re-read it, and I think we both read it wrong.
It was the level of personal attention, like you thought, but not that she didn't get it, but that the two behaviors are essentially the same, but are treated differently.
I can't see any difference between killing yourself with pills because you're unable to deal, and killing yourself through willful negligence by eating fast food until you need one of those Rascal Scooters to haul your bulk from the car to the WalMart.
It sounded pretty self-indulgent to me; all the outrage that fat people get medical treatment when they come in with symptoms of a heart attack, and then get sent on their merry way with a new menu (that's what they did with you, right TGRR?) while poor OD girl gets told to sit and wait it out, and then sent for behavioral treatment.
My question is, what the hell are they supposed to do with OD girl? What does OD girl think they SHOULD have done to help her?
As for the nurses deliberately missing her veins to teach her a lesson, I doubt it. I have a brain tumor which means everybody in hospitals feels sorry for me, but I've had some pretty grueling experiences with the nurses missing my veins as well. They just weren't very good at it.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 07:35:35 PM
As for the nurses deliberately missing her veins to teach her a lesson, I doubt it.
So do I, but I don't doubt that Nivek truly believes that. We have loads of unreasonable and incompetent medical practicioners here (and some outright crazy ones), and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference.
And yeah, there was some self-indulgence in that post, but is that a surprise? We and the half-generation before us have managed to raise a generation of people that think that's normal. "You're special.", "There are no losers.", "Differently-abled.", etc. Then they hit the real world like a bug hitting a windshield.
Of COURSE they're going to react in a self-indulgent manner. All the stupid loveburger shit they've been handed in school, etc, has done everything BUT prepare them for the world.
Now, I know Nivek in real life, and she isn't the way this rant may make her appear. She's pretty tough, particularly for her generation, so don't let it look like I'm excusing anything, here. I'll let her make her own case. I just wanted to point out one thing...When someone is new to Discordia, they bring all manner of awful baggage with them. I think you're doing the right thing by addressing her post the way you have. I'm just trying to think of a way to acclimatize people in this position, rather than having them meet the Stark Fist of Reality full force, right off the bat.
I'm not explaining this right.
Being Truthful without being a dick about it is tough.
However, as the man says...
The Truth Will Set You Free But First It May Make You Uncomfortable.
Quote from: LMNO on October 28, 2009, 07:49:49 PM
Being Truthful without being a dick about it is tough.
However, as the man says...
The Truth Will Set You Free But First It May Make You Uncomfortable.
Oh, no argument. I wasn't even particularly concerned about Nivek, she has a thick hide. I was thinking more along the lines of some of the noobs we get. Where before I was perfectly happy to throw the self-indulgent ones in the dumpster, I am no longer that lazy. I think it might be a worthwhile project to try to find a deprogramming technique to apply to people when they demonstrate these tendencies. It would be a challenge, at any rate, given that they've usually had 16-30 years of being told how "special" they are.
I like Nivek. She's smart, she's talented, she's interesting, and it's obvious that in many areas she Gets It. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just didn't really like that rant because it comes across as self-indulgent, IMO. Kinda misses the boat of What's Wrong With the World.
And when things took the "people aren't nice to junkies" turn, I just wanted to say, why should people be nice to junkies? The world is not nice. If a junkie is behaving in a way that is detrimental, why should they be treated differently than someone who's not a junkie? You make yourself a problem, you'll get treated like a problem. 99% of the time junkies only get treated poorly when they are making a problem of themselves, although they are often unaware that they're making a problem of themselves because the drugs impair their perception of appropriate behavior.
That is a separate issue from the quality of treatment facilities or the system we have to get help for junkies, though.
I think the point was that there are a lot of addictions. Drugs, food, alcohol, danger, stupidity. Not much you can name that someone isn't addicted to somewhere out there.
If someone is in need of medical attention, no matter why, they deserve the same respect as any other patient in need of medical attention. I've seen the way ER staff can treat an OD patient and it isn't pretty. They treat them like shit as if it is their job to teach the patient a lesson. I've seen it in more than one hospital so I have to think it is a fairly common practice.
My insane first husband drug me into the ER once and told them I fell down the stairs because I took a handful of pills. I tried to tell the nurse he'd beat the shit out of me and I hadn't taken a damn thing. They fucking Baker Acted me and put my on the psych ward. It took my parents coming down to the hospital with their lawyer in tow the next day before they would release me. And yes, it was a nice settlement when we sued! The divorce cost me an arm and a leg, but it was well worth it!
My point being, I tend to agree, patients deserve to be treated decently no matter WHY they are in the position of being a patient. It's just another form of discrimination to treat them otherwise. IMO!
I can agree that patients deserve to be treated with equal respect by medical staff. What I don't agree with is that "I took a lot of pills and now I'm REALLLLLY HIGH" should get the same level of attentiveness and treatment as "I'm obese and now I'm experiencing chest pains and shortness of breath", because the first one is something that could, in that situation, be waited out, whereas the second is potentially a death about to take place in the ER.
What I got out of the rant was mostly "The fat guy got priority treatment even though he caused his medical emergency just as much as I did, and it's not fair that drug ODs get sent to inpatient treatment but fatties don't because they're both self-inflicted".
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Arizona has funny laws.
For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.
:)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Arizona has funny laws.
For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.
:)
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Arizona has funny laws.
For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.
:)
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
Federal funds.
Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time. So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.
We fix everyone, down here.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Arizona has funny laws.
For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.
:)
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
Federal funds.
Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time. So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.
We fix everyone, down here.
Florida is similar with the Baker Act. Which is why I sued so I wouldn't lose any of my civil rights or my employment bond.
I'M JUST SAYING THERE ARE SOME GAPING HOLES IN THIS STORY. Like the one where Arizona's ERs are somehow able to independently commit junkies to inpatient treatment at behavioral therapy facilities, and how this is paid for. Because no matter how many junkies you bill for their involuntary inpatient time, you're not going to get a high rate of recompense. And once word got out, every junkie desperate to get clean would be taking too many pills and heading to the ER.
And I still want to know what Nivek WANTED them to have done, instead of telling her to wait it out, and sending her to rehab. Tucked her into a nice cozy bed and read her a story?
Quote from: Khara on October 28, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:28:23 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Arizona has funny laws.
For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.
:)
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
Federal funds.
Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time. So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.
We fix everyone, down here.
Florida is similar with the Baker Act. Which is why I sued so I wouldn't lose any of my civil rights or my employment bond.
America, land of the free. Unless you get sick, or fall afoul of our Byzantine legal system.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:28:23 PM
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
Federal funds.
Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time. So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.
We fix everyone, down here.
Not buying it, Roger.
Where are these "federal funds" for Oregon?
Too many implausible explanations, not enough fact.
You can fix bad credit in seven years, ask me how.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:34:28 PM
I'M JUST SAYING THERE ARE SOME GAPING HOLES IN THIS STORY. Like the one where Arizona's ERs are somehow able to independently commit junkies to inpatient treatment at behavioral therapy facilities, and how this is paid for. Because no matter how many junkies you bill for their involuntary inpatient time, you're not going to get a high rate of recompense. And once word got out, every junkie desperate to get clean would be taking too many pills and heading to the ER.
And I still want to know what Nivek WANTED them to have done, instead of telling her to wait it out, and sending her to rehab. Tucked her into a nice cozy bed and read her a story?
Ima let her answer, except to say that we have very, very odd rules concerning mental issues here in Arizona.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:35:38 PM
Not buying it, Roger.
:|
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:35:38 PM
Where are these "federal funds" for Oregon?
Too many implausible explanations, not enough fact.
You can fix bad credit in seven years, ask me how.
My search engine is borked here, but when I get home I will post a link.
We have a version of Florida's "Baker Act". So does Oregon, from what little "Bing" would deliver on a search.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:35:38 PM
Not buying it, Roger.
:|
You appear to be speculating, and I am not doubting that you are honest, I am doubting that you are correct.
Quote
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:35:38 PM
Where are these "federal funds" for Oregon?
Too many implausible explanations, not enough fact.
You can fix bad credit in seven years, ask me how.
My search engine is borked here, but when I get home I will post a link.
We have a version of Florida's "Baker Act". So does Oregon, from what little "Bing" would deliver on a search.
Not that I'm aware of. My ex (the heroin junkie) tried to have me committed. Luckily (for me, if not for the thousands who need to be and aren't) it's not that easy in Oregon. The Community Mental Health Program has
completely inadequate funding (see OSH and Dammasch closures).
But even so, that's a whole different ball of wax; then they're not treating her as a druggie, they're treating her as a suicide attempt, and that doesn't really mesh with the original premise of the story very well.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 07:10:08 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 28, 2009, 03:41:34 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 28, 2009, 03:25:26 AM
Ok, this thing seriously got to me.
Having a friend who suffers from Heroin Addiction, I know exactly what you mean.
It's fucked up how they treat people that should be considered patients, people who need help, not to be brushed under the rug with the hope that people won't notice.
And yes, while some drug addicts are fucked up and steal shit... some people will never compromise their morals no matter how addicted they are, and they get treated as badly as those that will and do.
Thank you. You got the point of the rant completely. I wish the best for your friend by the way. Its difficult battling something so highly addictive and keeping people around you that will actually support through the ordeal. Most people view it as weakness and as a loss and they write them off completely.
I was married to a heroin addict. Sometime "writing people off" is simply pure self-preservation. I still pity him, but I want nothing to do with him because he was a bad person for me to be around, and he consistently made bad choices that made his life worse. Perhaps he didn't know how to do any different, but that doesn't make me respect him.
I don't hate drug addicts any more than I hate fat people, but outside of my romantic life I have a pretty good spidey-sense for when people are going to be bad for me, and I disentangle.
I'm not anti-drugs, either, by any means, but I have repeatedly seen people make bad choices that led them down a road to destructive addiction, and I don't want people who make those kinds of bad decisions in my life because it WILL effect my quality of life, my stress level, and my ability to provide a healthy environment for my kids. Self-preservation.
I do have to say that when my friend had a bad reaction to Amanita Muscaria, the hospital staff were very nice to us. If she did it a second time, I wouldn't expect them to be quite so nice.
Thats understandable. And your kids always come first before yourself. I agree that the majority are pieces of dogshit, but as far as it goes there are so many more that are clumped in that don't deserve to be. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this though. You have to think about the way they will affect you and your children before making a big choice whether or not to get involved with them. Its a high stress situation dealing with them through thick and thin. But i think alot of them need that kick in the ass of losing friends and loved ones before they can fix themselves. They need to learn self control, addictive personality is only a part of it.
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
A few things:
I'm not trying to glorify drug use...as a matter of fact, I have dealt with enough people like that to know its a harmful lifestyle and that they had been stupid.
I realize I was stupid at the time, I was going through a rough time and had been dealing with some rather bizarre problems with a relationship, etc.
Plus, the point for it was that they do not treat people the same... as Roger had put it.
The point was that doctors go into this profession to help people, treat them etc. They can't pick and choose who they are going to help, they understand that they can save the world but they can TRY to help the people that come to them. The overdose was more of a cry for help than an actual attempt...(After taking all that realizing that it wasn't the best of solutions.)
The only reason I have brought this to light is that I have been through the system when it comes to Behavioral Health and that the doctors don't really want to help you all they want to do is replace your vices with another LEGAL form of drug and send you on your merry way. I get tired of people writing everyone off that has ever tried drugs, screwed up, and gotten into any type of trouble for it.
The point wasn't advocation of drug use, it was the doctors' attitude towards it.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
Parents didn't have any knowledge of it.
Nigel:
Tucson has this health care called ACCCHS, which they give to people with low income, no income etc. And it is state law to send someone to a behavioral health facility for a suicide attempt. I don't understand where they get the funding from and it was against my wishes to be sent. I managed to get out after two days of it for reasons of telling them that it was making me worse being around people of the same caliber. They eventually sent me to another mental health outpatient program called SAMHC where they eventually diagnosed me with bipolar disorder and prescribed me some bizarre drugs for it. Then later on they sent me to one more outpatient facilities called La Frontera where they did much the same.
SAMHC is a temporary relief crisis center where they place you into one of the long term centers. I'm not exactly sure how the system works for this health care or how they pay for it. But, at this point they are receiving less funding for it and cut much of the help they offer.
i know this doesn't explain it all but this is the best i can do for the moment.
Quote from: Lysergic on October 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
Actually, as of now I haven't had much of a problem with addiction (except nicotine. replacing one addiction for another, i suppose.) But, they do have me on an anti-psychotic for my said "disorder". Thank you for the suggestion, though.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
Actually, as of now I haven't had much of a problem with addiction (except nicotine. replacing one addiction for another, i suppose.) But, they do have me on an anti-psychotic for my said "disorder". Thank you for the suggestion, though.
Nivek: Do not take drug advice from Lysergic. Particularly Ibogaine.
Florida Mental Health Acts.....
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394)
Quote1) ADMINISTRATION.--The Department of Children and Family Services is designated the "Mental Health Authority" of Florida. The department and the Agency for Health Care Administration shall exercise executive and administrative supervision over all mental health facilities, programs, and services.
Well now doesn't that raise some interesting questions.....
It is almost impossible to find a complete definition of the Baker Act. That is why if you do sue, the results are almost always in your favor. It is used over and over in FL to force people into 3 days of evaluation. It then goes on to fuck up the rest of your life. DCF keeps a record FOREVER. You have no chance against them if you've been Baker Acted unless you have sued and had the decision overturned and the records everywhere expunged. The problem is, few people can afford to do that or know they need to.
The funds to cover the stay on the psych ward are not state or federally funded. They charge your fucking insurance if you have it and if you don't they bill you for the rest of your life. So, you go in for help, they decide you're a bit unstable, they get you Baker Acted against your will AND........
YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
Actually, as of now I haven't had much of a problem with addiction (except nicotine. replacing one addiction for another, i suppose.) But, they do have me on an anti-psychotic for my said "disorder". Thank you for the suggestion, though.
Nivek: Do not take drug advice from Lysergic. Particularly Ibogaine.
i read up on all drugs before i take them. I am fairly knowledgeable about which ones not to be doing at this point. Ibogaine had some pretty horrendous looking side effects and looked rather dangerous in the first place. Nasty little hallucinogenic compound. Its quite regulated in the US as of now as well. It seemed more harm than good anyhow.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
Actually, as of now I haven't had much of a problem with addiction (except nicotine. replacing one addiction for another, i suppose.) But, they do have me on an anti-psychotic for my said "disorder". Thank you for the suggestion, though.
Nivek: Do not take drug advice from Lysergic. Particularly Ibogaine.
i read up on all drugs before i take them. I am fairly knowledgeable about which ones not to be doing at this point. Ibogaine had some pretty horrendous looking side effects and looked rather dangerous in the first place. Nasty little hallucinogenic compound. Its quite regulated in the US as of now as well. It seemed more harm than good anyhow.
Again, do not take pharmaceutical advice from anyone who has chosen "Lysergic" as a moniker.
:lulz:
lysergic doesn't need drugs, he just prints out his posts, rolls 'em up, and smokes 'em. :p
Quote from: Cramulus on October 29, 2009, 02:30:19 PM
lysergic doesn't need drugs, he just prints out his posts, rolls 'em up, and smokes 'em. :p
That's SUCH a waste of a fine young hottie he's banging. Who is wearing his jacket. Or words to that effect.
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
Florida Mental Health Acts.....
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394)
Quote1) ADMINISTRATION.--The Department of Children and Family Services is designated the "Mental Health Authority" of Florida. The department and the Agency for Health Care Administration shall exercise executive and administrative supervision over all mental health facilities, programs, and services.
Well now doesn't that raise some interesting questions.....
It is almost impossible to find a complete definition of the Baker Act. That is why if you do sue, the results are almost always in your favor. It is used over and over in FL to force people into 3 days of evaluation. It then goes on to fuck up the rest of your life. DCF keeps a record FOREVER. You have no chance against them if you've been Baker Acted unless you have sued and had the decision overturned and the records everywhere expunged. The problem is, few people can afford to do that or know they need to.
The funds to cover the stay on the psych ward are not state or federally funded. They charge your fucking insurance if you have it and if you don't they bill you for the rest of your life. So, you go in for help, they decide you're a bit unstable, they get you Baker Acted against your will AND........
YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!
People keep bringing up the Baker Act, which is indeed a crappy piece of legislation, but it's also irrelevant because this took place in AZ, not FL.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:28:37 AM
Nigel:
Tucson has this health care called ACCCHS, which they give to people with low income, no income etc. And it is state law to send someone to a behavioral health facility for a suicide attempt. I don't understand where they get the funding from and it was against my wishes to be sent. I managed to get out after two days of it for reasons of telling them that it was making me worse being around people of the same caliber. They eventually sent me to another mental health outpatient program called SAMHC where they eventually diagnosed me with bipolar disorder and prescribed me some bizarre drugs for it. Then later on they sent me to one more outpatient facilities called La Frontera where they did much the same.
SAMHC is a temporary relief crisis center where they place you into one of the long term centers. I'm not exactly sure how the system works for this health care or how they pay for it. But, at this point they are receiving less funding for it and cut much of the help they offer.
i know this doesn't explain it all but this is the best i can do for the moment.
OK.
Approaching it as a suicide attempt rather than accidental overdose, that makes perfect sense. However, it rather directly contradicts some of the implications of your original post, which were that you received poor (even punishing) treatment because they treated you as if you were a druggie. Now you're saying they treated you as a suicide attempt.
Pick one.
Also, again, I am going to ask you what you WANTED them to have done. It sounds like, when confronted with a "cry for attention" suicide attempt, the ER staff put you in the waiting room and called around until they could find somewhere with room for you, and people who could come pick you up.
It REALLY sounds like what you wanted was for people to make a big fuss over you and send you home. However, that's completely unrealistic. ER staffs are not there to pamper mentally disturbed little girls who want attention, they're there to try to make sure nobody dies. You didn't die, and other than having to wait for a long time (which, as a less-urgent ER patient myself, I've experienced as well) it doesn't sound like anyone treated you badly.
So, what, exactly, do you want? What injustice are you trying to highlight?
If a particular rant is a work-in-progress consolidation of emotion and thoughts, then upon dissection there are always going to be logical inconsistencies. For example - compare the OP with one of Rogers rants where the power comes from the fact that the emotion is backed up by a strong logical consistency.
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
My post below was in response to this...
Quote from: Nigel on October 29, 2009, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
Florida Mental Health Acts.....
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394)
Quote1) ADMINISTRATION.--The Department of Children and Family Services is designated the "Mental Health Authority" of Florida. The department and the Agency for Health Care Administration shall exercise executive and administrative supervision over all mental health facilities, programs, and services.
Well now doesn't that raise some interesting questions.....
It is almost impossible to find a complete definition of the Baker Act. That is why if you do sue, the results are almost always in your favor. It is used over and over in FL to force people into 3 days of evaluation. It then goes on to fuck up the rest of your life. DCF keeps a record FOREVER. You have no chance against them if you've been Baker Acted unless you have sued and had the decision overturned and the records everywhere expunged. The problem is, few people can afford to do that or know they need to.
The funds to cover the stay on the psych ward are not state or federally funded. They charge your fucking insurance if you have it and if you don't they bill you for the rest of your life. So, you go in for help, they decide you're a bit unstable, they get you Baker Acted against your will AND........
YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!
People keep bringing up the Baker Act, which is indeed a crappy piece of legislation, but it's also irrelevant because this took place in AZ, not FL.
And what I was talking about happened in FL not AZ...
I'm done, I hate being irrelevant!
I liked the OP, but in regards to the attitude of docs and nurses and various other "health professionals" (it's rare you enter a medical building and get an actual nurse or doctor anymore, it's usually an MA, RN or other incarnation of nurse)...I hear from the guy I've been married to for 14.5 years and seen through medical school and residency in pediatrics that the jaded attitude towards drugged-out teenagers is a danger when considering bedside manner. It's true that when you sign on to a job, you sign on for the whole enchilada, especially if you are caring for human beings, and the decisions you make on their behalf will affect them for the rest of their lives.
But consider someone who's worked a 12-hour shift, been on their feet all day, and they see nothing but people who are wastoids, or who have been victimized by said waistoids. How happy, cheery and patient do you think this person can be? Their personal judgment aside, it's just so defeating to see young kid after young kid throwing themselves down through the garbage hole.
I'm not excusing unprofessionalism--I think that's the biggest weakness of most doctors and nurses. A lot of them might have started out with great attitudes and the ability to cope with the amount of sheer humanity they'd have to see. Especially ER docs and nurses. But you get jaded and cynical easily when the bombardment of flesh that comes through your door manifests itself into a pile of people who give less of a shit about themselves than you do. And it wears you right the fuck down.
And they are not people without their own problems, addictions and troubles as well.
Again, I'm not saying this is great reasoning for pushing the sick and weak around. I'm saying there are few who can resist going down that path. It takes a very specific and gifted person to be able to see that, day after day, and deal with it to the utmost of their abilities, and NOT fuck it up, in some way, NOT hurt themselves or someone else, in some way, because of what they have seen and whom they have seen before then. And will see again.
Laws and hospital protocols aside, there is a certain amount of reinstitutionalization that happens when you work in an ER, county hospital or clinic.
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
My post below was in response to this...
Quote from: Nigel on October 29, 2009, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
Florida Mental Health Acts.....
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394)
Quote1) ADMINISTRATION.--The Department of Children and Family Services is designated the "Mental Health Authority" of Florida. The department and the Agency for Health Care Administration shall exercise executive and administrative supervision over all mental health facilities, programs, and services.
Well now doesn't that raise some interesting questions.....
It is almost impossible to find a complete definition of the Baker Act. That is why if you do sue, the results are almost always in your favor. It is used over and over in FL to force people into 3 days of evaluation. It then goes on to fuck up the rest of your life. DCF keeps a record FOREVER. You have no chance against them if you've been Baker Acted unless you have sued and had the decision overturned and the records everywhere expunged. The problem is, few people can afford to do that or know they need to.
The funds to cover the stay on the psych ward are not state or federally funded. They charge your fucking insurance if you have it and if you don't they bill you for the rest of your life. So, you go in for help, they decide you're a bit unstable, they get you Baker Acted against your will AND........
YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!
People keep bringing up the Baker Act, which is indeed a crappy piece of legislation, but it's also irrelevant because this took place in AZ, not FL.
And what I was talking about happened in FL not AZ...
I'm done, I hate being irrelevant!
:(
We have 4 different people here, talking about 5 different things. People are getting in arguments, and they're not having the same conversation.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2009, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 03:34:48 PM
Quote from: Nigel on October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 PM
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.
My post below was in response to this...
Quote from: Nigel on October 29, 2009, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
Florida Mental Health Acts.....
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0394/titl0394.htm&StatuteYear=2008&Title=%2D%3E2008%2D%3EChapter%20394)
Quote1) ADMINISTRATION.--The Department of Children and Family Services is designated the "Mental Health Authority" of Florida. The department and the Agency for Health Care Administration shall exercise executive and administrative supervision over all mental health facilities, programs, and services.
Well now doesn't that raise some interesting questions.....
It is almost impossible to find a complete definition of the Baker Act. That is why if you do sue, the results are almost always in your favor. It is used over and over in FL to force people into 3 days of evaluation. It then goes on to fuck up the rest of your life. DCF keeps a record FOREVER. You have no chance against them if you've been Baker Acted unless you have sued and had the decision overturned and the records everywhere expunged. The problem is, few people can afford to do that or know they need to.
The funds to cover the stay on the psych ward are not state or federally funded. They charge your fucking insurance if you have it and if you don't they bill you for the rest of your life. So, you go in for help, they decide you're a bit unstable, they get you Baker Acted against your will AND........
YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!
People keep bringing up the Baker Act, which is indeed a crappy piece of legislation, but it's also irrelevant because this took place in AZ, not FL.
And what I was talking about happened in FL not AZ...
I'm done, I hate being irrelevant!
:(
We have 4 different people here, talking about 5 different things. People are getting in arguments, and they're not having the same conversation.
Yah, I know, that is why I'm done posting in this thread. :sad:
I need to go paint the roses red again anyway! :wink:
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 04:06:14 PM
I need to go paint the roses red again anyway! :wink:
:lord:
I was just presenting a little-backed-up side. The health care provider's. They come from a position of power, so few think to present their side of the matter. But yeah, being married to it, I know there's a bit of give and take they are presented in the middle of (think of the amount of people's SHIT (and sometimes LITERALLY SHIT) you have to shovel in that job! more than most of us would ever be able to handle and not have to be committed ourselves).
But I'll bow out if it's inappropriate or whatever.
Aint been around in a while.
thanks for noticing :cry:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on October 29, 2009, 04:35:02 PM
Aint been around in a while.
thanks for noticing :cry:
Who are you, again?
:lulz: yeah the name gave me a clue on that one lmao.
Quote from: Nigel on October 29, 2009, 03:14:05 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:28:37 AM
Nigel:
Tucson has this health care called ACCCHS, which they give to people with low income, no income etc. And it is state law to send someone to a behavioral health facility for a suicide attempt. I don't understand where they get the funding from and it was against my wishes to be sent. I managed to get out after two days of it for reasons of telling them that it was making me worse being around people of the same caliber. They eventually sent me to another mental health outpatient program called SAMHC where they eventually diagnosed me with bipolar disorder and prescribed me some bizarre drugs for it. Then later on they sent me to one more outpatient facilities called La Frontera where they did much the same.
SAMHC is a temporary relief crisis center where they place you into one of the long term centers. I'm not exactly sure how the system works for this health care or how they pay for it. But, at this point they are receiving less funding for it and cut much of the help they offer.
i know this doesn't explain it all but this is the best i can do for the moment.
OK.
Approaching it as a suicide attempt rather than accidental overdose, that makes perfect sense. However, it rather directly contradicts some of the implications of your original post, which were that you received poor (even punishing) treatment because they treated you as if you were a druggie. Now you're saying they treated you as a suicide attempt.
Pick one.
It was mainly for both topics. I went in as a suicide was treated as a druggie. That's what I was getting at. I realize its unclear.
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 04:00:23 PM
I liked the OP, but in regards to the attitude of docs and nurses and various other "health professionals" (it's rare you enter a medical building and get an actual nurse or doctor anymore, it's usually an MA, RN or other incarnation of nurse)...I hear from the guy I've been married to for 14.5 years and seen through medical school and residency in pediatrics that the jaded attitude towards drugged-out teenagers is a danger when considering bedside manner. It's true that when you sign on to a job, you sign on for the whole enchilada, especially if you are caring for human beings, and the decisions you make on their behalf will affect them for the rest of their lives.
But consider someone who's worked a 12-hour shift, been on their feet all day, and they see nothing but people who are wastoids, or who have been victimized by said waistoids. How happy, cheery and patient do you think this person can be? Their personal judgment aside, it's just so defeating to see young kid after young kid throwing themselves down through the garbage hole.
I'm not excusing unprofessionalism--I think that's the biggest weakness of most doctors and nurses. A lot of them might have started out with great attitudes and the ability to cope with the amount of sheer humanity they'd have to see. Especially ER docs and nurses. But you get jaded and cynical easily when the bombardment of flesh that comes through your door manifests itself into a pile of people who give less of a shit about themselves than you do. And it wears you right the fuck down.
And they are not people without their own problems, addictions and troubles as well.
Again, I'm not saying this is great reasoning for pushing the sick and weak around. I'm saying there are few who can resist going down that path. It takes a very specific and gifted person to be able to see that, day after day, and deal with it to the utmost of their abilities, and NOT fuck it up, in some way, NOT hurt themselves or someone else, in some way, because of what they have seen and whom they have seen before then. And will see again.
Laws and hospital protocols aside, there is a certain amount of reinstitutionalization that happens when you work in an ER, county hospital or clinic.
Thats understandable, even considering it was the night shift dealing with me. So it makes more sense as to why they would act that way. Regardless, that has crossed my mind on that subject but for the most part i defend my end of it without having to go into detail at this point. I like where this post has gone honestly.
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 04:00:23 PM
I liked the OP, but in regards to the attitude of docs and nurses and various other "health professionals" (it's rare you enter a medical building and get an actual nurse or doctor anymore, it's usually an MA, RN or other incarnation of nurse)...I hear from the guy I've been married to for 14.5 years and seen through medical school and residency in pediatrics that the jaded attitude towards drugged-out teenagers is a danger when considering bedside manner. It's true that when you sign on to a job, you sign on for the whole enchilada, especially if you are caring for human beings, and the decisions you make on their behalf will affect them for the rest of their lives.
But consider someone who's worked a 12-hour shift, been on their feet all day, and they see nothing but people who are wastoids, or who have been victimized by said waistoids. How happy, cheery and patient do you think this person can be? Their personal judgment aside, it's just so defeating to see young kid after young kid throwing themselves down through the garbage hole.
I'm not excusing unprofessionalism--I think that's the biggest weakness of most doctors and nurses. A lot of them might have started out with great attitudes and the ability to cope with the amount of sheer humanity they'd have to see. Especially ER docs and nurses. But you get jaded and cynical easily when the bombardment of flesh that comes through your door manifests itself into a pile of people who give less of a shit about themselves than you do. And it wears you right the fuck down.
And they are not people without their own problems, addictions and troubles as well.
Again, I'm not saying this is great reasoning for pushing the sick and weak around. I'm saying there are few who can resist going down that path. It takes a very specific and gifted person to be able to see that, day after day, and deal with it to the utmost of their abilities, and NOT fuck it up, in some way, NOT hurt themselves or someone else, in some way, because of what they have seen and whom they have seen before then. And will see again.
Laws and hospital protocols aside, there is a certain amount of reinstitutionalization that happens when you work in an ER, county hospital or clinic.
Thats understandable, even considering it was the night shift dealing with me. So it makes more sense as to why they would act that way. Regardless, that has crossed my mind on that subject but for the most part i defend my end of it without having to go into detail at this point. I like where this post has gone honestly.
Thanks, NiveK. And the night shift is the WORST. THE WORST. Hands down. No one likes working it, and the bitches running it are Nazi assholes and usually much less friendly in general. My own experiences with them have led me to believe that only sado-massochists work that shift with any regularity. When my husband was in the oncology unit 2 years ago puking up blood from the morphine they gave him, I ran to the night nurse on duty and told her what was going on. She looked straight at me and asked, "What do you want ME to do about it?" HOW ABOUT YOUR FUCKING JOB, BITCH? That was one of the worst days of my life, really.
You have all my sympathies for what you went through--everyone does when they've had negative experiences with doctors, nurses and health techs. But I do know that they're sometimes just fuckups, like the rest of us, and they contribute to ruination because they, too, are ruined.
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 04:16:45 PM
I was just presenting a little-backed-up side. The health care provider's. They come from a position of power, so few think to present their side of the matter. But yeah, being married to it, I know there's a bit of give and take they are presented in the middle of (think of the amount of people's SHIT (and sometimes LITERALLY SHIT) you have to shovel in that job! more than most of us would ever be able to handle and not have to be committed ourselves).
But I'll bow out if it's inappropriate or whatever.
I do think this is relevant to the OP, which is what I am trying to discuss/dissect.
I think she could have a good rant there, but it needs to be completely rewritten.
Quote from: Khara on October 29, 2009, 03:34:48 PM
And what I was talking about happened in FL not AZ...
I'm done, I hate being irrelevant!
Khara, it is not that YOU are irrelevant, it's that I am trying to talk about the OP, and I thought you were answering my questions about what happened in Arizona with information about Florida.
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 05:07:46 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 05:02:52 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 04:00:23 PM
I liked the OP, but in regards to the attitude of docs and nurses and various other "health professionals" (it's rare you enter a medical building and get an actual nurse or doctor anymore, it's usually an MA, RN or other incarnation of nurse)...I hear from the guy I've been married to for 14.5 years and seen through medical school and residency in pediatrics that the jaded attitude towards drugged-out teenagers is a danger when considering bedside manner. It's true that when you sign on to a job, you sign on for the whole enchilada, especially if you are caring for human beings, and the decisions you make on their behalf will affect them for the rest of their lives.
But consider someone who's worked a 12-hour shift, been on their feet all day, and they see nothing but people who are wastoids, or who have been victimized by said waistoids. How happy, cheery and patient do you think this person can be? Their personal judgment aside, it's just so defeating to see young kid after young kid throwing themselves down through the garbage hole.
I'm not excusing unprofessionalism--I think that's the biggest weakness of most doctors and nurses. A lot of them might have started out with great attitudes and the ability to cope with the amount of sheer humanity they'd have to see. Especially ER docs and nurses. But you get jaded and cynical easily when the bombardment of flesh that comes through your door manifests itself into a pile of people who give less of a shit about themselves than you do. And it wears you right the fuck down.
And they are not people without their own problems, addictions and troubles as well.
Again, I'm not saying this is great reasoning for pushing the sick and weak around. I'm saying there are few who can resist going down that path. It takes a very specific and gifted person to be able to see that, day after day, and deal with it to the utmost of their abilities, and NOT fuck it up, in some way, NOT hurt themselves or someone else, in some way, because of what they have seen and whom they have seen before then. And will see again.
Laws and hospital protocols aside, there is a certain amount of reinstitutionalization that happens when you work in an ER, county hospital or clinic.
Thats understandable, even considering it was the night shift dealing with me. So it makes more sense as to why they would act that way. Regardless, that has crossed my mind on that subject but for the most part i defend my end of it without having to go into detail at this point. I like where this post has gone honestly.
Thanks, NiveK. And the night shift is the WORST. THE WORST. Hands down. No one likes working it, and the bitches running it are Nazi assholes and usually much less friendly in general. My own experiences with them have led me to believe that only sado-massochists work that shift with any regularity. When my husband was in the oncology unit 2 years ago puking up blood from the morphine they gave him, I ran to the night nurse on duty and told her what was going on. She looked straight at me and asked, "What do you want ME to do about it?" HOW ABOUT YOUR FUCKING JOB, BITCH? That was one of the worst days of my life, really.
You have all my sympathies for what you went through--everyone does when they've had negative experiences with doctors, nurses and health techs. But I do know that they're sometimes just fuckups, like the rest of us, and they contribute to ruination because they, too, are ruined.
I really didn't need sympathy, I was the retard that did it to myself. I just mainly wanted EQUAL treatment from them. As you said though I understand why they treat patients the way they do.
Quote from: Nigel on October 29, 2009, 05:13:25 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 04:16:45 PM
I was just presenting a little-backed-up side. The health care provider's. They come from a position of power, so few think to present their side of the matter. But yeah, being married to it, I know there's a bit of give and take they are presented in the middle of (think of the amount of people's SHIT (and sometimes LITERALLY SHIT) you have to shovel in that job! more than most of us would ever be able to handle and not have to be committed ourselves).
But I'll bow out if it's inappropriate or whatever.
I do think this is relevant to the OP, which is what I am trying to discuss/dissect.
I think she could have a good rant there, but it needs to be completely rewritten.
I admit its a very raw rant. It needs to be rewritten. I think I'm going to leave it at that though. Its really not worth my time to rewrite with all the other pending rants that are needing artwork and my attention that others are writing MUCH much better than I could ever write.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Quote from: NiveKRayne on October 29, 2009, 07:32:08 AM
Quote from: Lysergic on October 29, 2009, 04:51:44 AM
Just on a side note NiveKRayne, if you haven't heard of it, you should look up ibogaine.
And if you can ever find it, get yourself some.
Actually, as of now I haven't had much of a problem with addiction (except nicotine. replacing one addiction for another, i suppose.) But, they do have me on an anti-psychotic for my said "disorder". Thank you for the suggestion, though.
Nivek: Do not take drug advice from Lysergic. Particularly Ibogaine.
Advice?
What Advice? I said, "Look up Ibogaine" and I said "Get some".
Did I ever say you *should* ingest it?.
In any case, it sounds like Nivek has things under control now. Ibogaine isn't a fucking recreational or "fun" drug, but it has been proven to be effective in helping people with the withdrawal symptoms of hard drugs like heroin and barbiturates.
Yes, it can make you puke, it'll make you feel pretty terrible for a few hours, but its better then the shit one goes through when waiting 2 weeks for heroin to wear off.
Quote from: WikipediaIbogaine is a naturally occurring psychoactive compound found in a number of plants, principally in a member of the dogbane family known as iboga (Tabernanthe iboga). Ibogaine-containing preparations are used in medicinal and ritual purposes within African spiritual traditions of the Bwiti, who claim to have learned it from the Pygmy. In recent times, it has been identified as having anti-addictive properties. Ibogaine is an indole alkaloid that is obtained either by extraction from the iboga plant or by semi-synthesis from the precursor compound voacangine, another plant alkaloid. A full organic synthesis of ibogaine has been achieved but is too expensive and challenging to produce any commercially significant yield.
In the early 1960s, anecdotal reports appeared concerning ibogaine's effects.[1] Since that time, it has been the subject of investigation into its abilities to interrupt addictions to heroin, alcohol, and cocaine. It is thought that ibogaine may have potential to drive introspection, helping to elucidate the psychological issues and behavior patterns that drive addictions or other problems. However, ibogaine therapy for drug addiction is the subject of some controversy. Due to its hallucinogenic properties and safety concerns, it has been placed in the strictest drug prohibition schedules in the United States and a handful of other countries. Canada and Mexico both allow ibogaine treatment clinics to operate and openly contribute to further understanding of the addictive process.
While ibogaine's prohibition has slowed scientific research into its anti-addictive properties, the use of ibogaine for drug treatment has grown in the form of a large worldwide medical subculture.[2] Ibogaine is now used by treatment clinics in 12 countries on six continents to treat addictions to heroin, alcohol, powder cocaine, crack cocaine, and methamphetamine, as well as to facilitate psychological introspection and spiritual exploration.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 29, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on October 29, 2009, 02:30:19 PM
lysergic doesn't need drugs, he just prints out his posts, rolls 'em up, and smokes 'em. :p
That's SUCH a waste of a fine young hottie he's banging. Who is wearing his jacket. Or words to that effect.
Gee, thanks for noticing Rog :roll: