http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/30/17988462-more-us-babies-die-on-their-first-day-than-in-68-other-countries-report-shows?lite
I talked about this at work today. I was told that "American women just have too many abortions", which of course has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THE ARTICLE.
Lots of fun facts in there.
ARE YOU TRYING TO BLAME THE JOB CREATORS(TM)? No, it's those NASTY UPPITY WOMEN GETTING VACCUUM JOBS.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/30/17988462-more-us-babies-die-on-their-first-day-than-in-68-other-countries-report-shows?lite
I talked about this at work today. I was told that "American women just have too many abortions", which of course has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THE ARTICLE.
Lots of fun facts in there.
Sounds like someone short-circuited and defaulted to MAIN :lulz:
> Input: AMERICA is kind of shitty in a particular respect, related to childbirth
> ERROR
> Input not acceptable: reconfigure data
> All fault can be placed on women.
> Output: "Too many abortions!"
Anyway, pretty fascinating article. Good find.
Quote from: Cainad on May 07, 2013, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/30/17988462-more-us-babies-die-on-their-first-day-than-in-68-other-countries-report-shows?lite
I talked about this at work today. I was told that "American women just have too many abortions", which of course has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THE ARTICLE.
Lots of fun facts in there.
Sounds like someone short-circuited and defaulted to MAIN :lulz:
> Input: AMERICA is kind of shitty in a particular respect, related to childbirth
> ERROR
> Input not acceptable: reconfigure data
> All fault can be placed on women.
> Output: "Too many abortions!"
Anyway, pretty fascinating article. Good find.
I said it way back in 2003...Americans won't look because they CAN'T look, and they'll KILL YOU if you try to make them look.
No kidding. The whole facade is a pane of glass. Once you find one crack, you will see more and more cracks threading through the whole thing, and suddenly realize that with just a little pressure the whole thing is reduced to painful fragments.
Better just to not see the cracks.
Quote from: Cainad on May 07, 2013, 07:27:20 PM
No kidding. The whole facade is a pane of glass. Once you find one crack, you will see more and more cracks threading through the whole thing, and suddenly realize that with just a little pressure the whole thing is reduced to painful fragments.
Better just to not see the cracks.
Look at instead as a field of ice that the nation is walking across. Cracks are forming, but that's UNPLEASANT and BAD TO THINK ABOUT and even UNPATRIOTIC. If we don't SEE the cracks, we CAN'T fall through. In fact, given today's political hilarity, if you demonstrate the cracks in the ice, the po'buckers will all JUMP UP AND DOWN to SHOW YOU HIPPIES A THING OR TWO.
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 07:28:57 PM
Quote from: Cainad on May 07, 2013, 07:27:20 PM
No kidding. The whole facade is a pane of glass. Once you find one crack, you will see more and more cracks threading through the whole thing, and suddenly realize that with just a little pressure the whole thing is reduced to painful fragments.
Better just to not see the cracks.
Look at instead as a field of ice that the nation is walking across. Cracks are forming, but that's UNPLEASANT and BAD TO THINK ABOUT and even UNPATRIOTIC. If we don't SEE the cracks, we CAN'T fall through. In fact, given today's political hilarity, if you demonstrate the cracks in the ice, the po'buckers will all JUMP UP AND DOWN to SHOW YOU HIPPIES A THING OR TWO.
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
:horrormirth:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 07:24:55 PM
Quote from: Cainad on May 07, 2013, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/30/17988462-more-us-babies-die-on-their-first-day-than-in-68-other-countries-report-shows?lite
I talked about this at work today. I was told that "American women just have too many abortions", which of course has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THE ARTICLE.
Lots of fun facts in there.
Sounds like someone short-circuited and defaulted to MAIN :lulz:
> Input: AMERICA is kind of shitty in a particular respect, related to childbirth
> ERROR
> Input not acceptable: reconfigure data
> All fault can be placed on women.
> Output: "Too many abortions!"
Anyway, pretty fascinating article. Good find.
I said it way back in 2003...Americans won't look because they CAN'T look, and they'll KILL YOU if you try to make them look.
Yeah, I see that a lot around here. People who can't find jobs "LACK INITIATIVE", etc. :x
Quote"Poverty, racism and stress are likely to be important contributing factors to first-day deaths in the United States and other industrialized countries."
I'm glad this was at least acknowledged, though I would have liked a further emphasis on it. I'm sure I've read somewhere that when you look at whites only, the American data is closer to other first world nations, but I cannot remember the exact details.
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2013, 07:38:58 PM
Quote"Poverty, racism and stress are likely to be important contributing factors to first-day deaths in the United States and other industrialized countries."
I'm glad this was at least acknowledged, though I would have liked a further emphasis on it. I'm sure I've read somewhere that when you look at whites only, the American data is closer to other first world nations, but I cannot remember the exact details.
It would hardly be a surprise.
America has come a long way in racial equality...Things ARE better now than ever before. But "better" by no means implies "good enough".
QuoteBangladesh is one success story – it has has reduced newborn mortality by 49 percent since 1990, the report says. "Increased family incomes, lower fertility rates and higher levels of female education likely account for a significant share of this success," it says. Door-to-door health workers have also helped, it says.
Just worth noting.
How someone got ABORTION BAD from this is beyond me. You are allowed to talk about failings in healthcare(and other) systems. Surely you want them to improve?
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 07, 2013, 07:52:25 PM
QuoteBangladesh is one success story – it has has reduced newborn mortality by 49 percent since 1990, the report says. "Increased family incomes, lower fertility rates and higher levels of female education likely account for a significant share of this success," it says. Door-to-door health workers have also helped, it says.
Just worth noting.
How someone got ABORTION BAD from this is beyond me. You are allowed to talk about failings in healthcare(and other) systems. Surely you want them to improve?
You need to come visit. You'll never believe us otherwise. :lulz:
Thing is, Junkenstien, many (not most, but enough) Americans are tiny, scared people who don't feel SAFE because minorities and women are no longer legally their doormat/cum-dumpster. They feel that America would be better off - and that they themselves would be better off - in an all-White, all-English speaking, male-dominated society.
But even if that DID happen, they'd still be the country's losers. In fact, they'd be worse off, because what little privilege they enjoy would be gone. They'd still be pig-ignorant po'buckers, at the bottom of the food chain, subject to the whims of those on the top.
But they can't blame themselves for their shortcomings, so it does no good to point out the obvious. Likewise, they have invested themselves in "MURRICA IS #1", to associate themselves with success...But that success, like their own conceptions of the perfect society, is an illusion.
Only if you come here first. My people would probably just interpret this as there's 68 dead babies somewhere.
New reply? POSTING ANYWAY
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 07, 2013, 08:05:41 PM
Only if you come here first. My people would probably just interpret this as there's 68 dead babies somewhere.
New reply? POSTING ANYWAY
I've been to England. It is also insane, but you guys have more class when you run around with your underwear on your head. Even in Liverpool.
Ah, so you've seen the Liverpool-Everton Derby then?
Incidentally, Liverpool is a special place. I once saw a child throw a snowball at a car there. The driver proceeded to exit the vehicle (He was stopped.In heavy snow.) and deliver an astonishing backhander. I think we all learned something. I learned Mondeo drivers hate snowballs.
As to the other thing, that explains a lot. It's a pretty monkey thing to want to be part of a group that has it better than another group, regardless of how many more have it better than you. "I'd rather be OK than help you fuck over the guy who's screwing us both"
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 07, 2013, 08:17:48 PM
Ah, so you've seen the Liverpool-Everton Derby then?
Incidentally, Liverpool is a special place. I once saw a child throw a snowball at a car there. The driver proceeded to exit the vehicle (He was stopped) and deliver an astonishing backhander. I think we all learned something. I learned Mondeo drivers hate snowballs.
As to the other thing, that explains a lot. It's a pretty monkey thing to want to be part of a group that has it better than another group, regardless of how many more have it better than you. "I'd rather be OK than help you fuck over the guy who's screwing us both"
Liverpool was a blast.
And yeah, that method is how the White aristocracy in the South managed to get the po'buckers to fight our civil war, which would guarantee that the po'buckers were locked into their social class.
Because they had a strata beneath them. That's all they cared about.
Sad article. You'd think the steroid shots to delay birth and the antibiotics to prevent umbilical cord infections would be no brainers. On the other hand, I heard doctors at a free clinic tell some pregnant teens they don't need prenatal care because their bodies supply everything since they're so young. Which was stupid, and I said so. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 07, 2013, 07:52:25 PM
QuoteBangladesh is one success story – it has has reduced newborn mortality by 49 percent since 1990, the report says. "Increased family incomes, lower fertility rates and higher levels of female education likely account for a significant share of this success," it says. Door-to-door health workers have also helped, it says.
Just worth noting.
How someone got ABORTION BAD from this is beyond me. You are allowed to talk about failings in healthcare(and other) systems. Surely you want them to improve?
Sometimes I forget just how completely fucked up this country is until someone comes along and says something that's perfectly reasonable, and it makes me belly laugh because in the context of America it seems utterly unreasonable.
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
I think it's a lot more complex than that, because if you look at Sapolsky's work with baboons (and he's where all our ideas about primate social experience comes from) he found that in one group where all the dominant assholes died off from an infection that took a much heavier toll on dominant assholes (no kidding), the culture of that troupe changed to a much gentler, less stressful culture, and remains changed over 20 years later, not due to genetic factors (else the assholes young would have simply grown up to be assholes, and the new assholes that joined the troupe would have remained assholes) but due purely to social factors; the power of the meme, as it were.
I think that we make a very typical human mistake when we look around and assume that because our culture has dominated, it reflects the biologically inevitable nature of human beings. It's called "false consensus" and is also the reason why when someone makes a racist joke and nobody speaks up, they assume that it's because everyone else is racist too.
The problem with aggressively dominating expansionist/colonial societies is that, because of their nature, they DO spread and they DO take over other, less aggressive societies. That doesn't mean it's basic human nature to do so, just that it's the nature of that KIND of society.
The question is whether there's a way of neutralizing them.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:46:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
I think it's a lot more complex than that, because if you look at Sapolsky's work with baboons (and he's where all our ideas about primate social experience comes from) he found that in one group where all the dominant assholes died off from an infection that took a much heavier toll on dominant assholes (no kidding), the culture of that troupe changed to a much gentler, less stressful culture, and remains changed over 20 years later, not due to genetic factors (else the assholes young would have simply grown up to be assholes, and the new assholes that joined the troupe would have remained assholes) but due purely to social factors; the power of the meme, as it were.
I think that we make a very typical human mistake when we look around and assume that because our culture has dominated, it reflects the biologically inevitable nature of human beings. It's called "false consensus" and is also the reason why when someone makes a racist joke and nobody speaks up, they assume that it's because everyone else is racist too.
The problem with aggressively dominating expansionist/colonial societies is that, because of their nature, they DO spread and they DO take over other, less aggressive societies. That doesn't mean it's basic human nature to do so, just that it's the nature of that KIND of society.
The question is whether there's a way of neutralizing them.
STOP BEING SO NIGEL ALL THE DAMN TIME!
\
:tgrr:
:lulz:
TGRR,
Off to look this Sapolsky guy up.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
I become more and more convinced of this every day. Our nation is
bloodthirsty.
Someone's always gotta pay. No matter whodunnit, howdunnit, or whydunnit, someone's gotta hang for it.
Deep-seated societal woes? Find suckers and string 'em up. Won't fix a fucking thing, but it makes for good television.
Don't fix things. Don't prevent things. Don't find reasons for things, and for FUCK'S sake don't forgive things. Just shut up and cast your stones, already.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:58:20 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:46:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
I think it's a lot more complex than that, because if you look at Sapolsky's work with baboons (and he's where all our ideas about primate social experience comes from) he found that in one group where all the dominant assholes died off from an infection that took a much heavier toll on dominant assholes (no kidding), the culture of that troupe changed to a much gentler, less stressful culture, and remains changed over 20 years later, not due to genetic factors (else the assholes young would have simply grown up to be assholes, and the new assholes that joined the troupe would have remained assholes) but due purely to social factors; the power of the meme, as it were.
I think that we make a very typical human mistake when we look around and assume that because our culture has dominated, it reflects the biologically inevitable nature of human beings. It's called "false consensus" and is also the reason why when someone makes a racist joke and nobody speaks up, they assume that it's because everyone else is racist too.
The problem with aggressively dominating expansionist/colonial societies is that, because of their nature, they DO spread and they DO take over other, less aggressive societies. That doesn't mean it's basic human nature to do so, just that it's the nature of that KIND of society.
The question is whether there's a way of neutralizing them.
STOP BEING SO NIGEL ALL THE DAMN TIME!
\
:tgrr:
:lulz:
TGRR,
Off to look this Sapolsky guy up.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2013, 06:08:51 PM
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/30/17988462-more-us-babies-die-on-their-first-day-than-in-68-other-countries-report-shows?lite
I talked about this at work today. I was told that "American women just have too many abortions", which of course has ANYTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH THE ARTICLE.
Lots of fun facts in there.
So... God is mad that we're killing unborn babies, so he's punishing us by... killing babies?
Is that their "reasoning".
To borrow Cainad's programming:
>INPUT: More babies die in America than in 68 other countries.
>IMPLICATION: America is a shittier place than assumed.
>ERROR. FULL STOP
>RECODE INPUT: Dead babies in America.
>ASSUMPTION: A fetus is a baby.
>IMPLICATION: The statistic is because abortion.
>OUTPUT: "Too many abortions!"
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:58:20 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:46:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
I think it's a lot more complex than that, because if you look at Sapolsky's work with baboons (and he's where all our ideas about primate social experience comes from) he found that in one group where all the dominant assholes died off from an infection that took a much heavier toll on dominant assholes (no kidding), the culture of that troupe changed to a much gentler, less stressful culture, and remains changed over 20 years later, not due to genetic factors (else the assholes young would have simply grown up to be assholes, and the new assholes that joined the troupe would have remained assholes) but due purely to social factors; the power of the meme, as it were.
I think that we make a very typical human mistake when we look around and assume that because our culture has dominated, it reflects the biologically inevitable nature of human beings. It's called "false consensus" and is also the reason why when someone makes a racist joke and nobody speaks up, they assume that it's because everyone else is racist too.
The problem with aggressively dominating expansionist/colonial societies is that, because of their nature, they DO spread and they DO take over other, less aggressive societies. That doesn't mean it's basic human nature to do so, just that it's the nature of that KIND of society.
The question is whether there's a way of neutralizing them.
STOP BEING SO NIGEL ALL THE DAMN TIME!
\
:tgrr:
:lulz:
TGRR,
Off to look this Sapolsky guy up.
There's a special on Netflix about stress. I think it's from Nova. It has a lot of discussion about his work. And it's also kind of cool to see it presented in that way because at a certain point when they talk about all the alpha's dying off after showing what complete fuck-sticks they were, I ended up totally cheering.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on May 10, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:58:20 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:46:51 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 08, 2013, 01:35:04 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 08, 2013, 01:32:31 AM
The thing about Americans is that even if you got them to look at the data, they would start bellowing about "personal responsibility" and how the women whose babies die probably bring it upon themselves.
Americans aren't interested in saving lives or making things better; they're interested in PUNISHMENT.
And having someone to sneer at.
Which I think is caused by being descended from pack-based primates.
I think it's a lot more complex than that, because if you look at Sapolsky's work with baboons (and he's where all our ideas about primate social experience comes from) he found that in one group where all the dominant assholes died off from an infection that took a much heavier toll on dominant assholes (no kidding), the culture of that troupe changed to a much gentler, less stressful culture, and remains changed over 20 years later, not due to genetic factors (else the assholes young would have simply grown up to be assholes, and the new assholes that joined the troupe would have remained assholes) but due purely to social factors; the power of the meme, as it were.
I think that we make a very typical human mistake when we look around and assume that because our culture has dominated, it reflects the biologically inevitable nature of human beings. It's called "false consensus" and is also the reason why when someone makes a racist joke and nobody speaks up, they assume that it's because everyone else is racist too.
The problem with aggressively dominating expansionist/colonial societies is that, because of their nature, they DO spread and they DO take over other, less aggressive societies. That doesn't mean it's basic human nature to do so, just that it's the nature of that KIND of society.
The question is whether there's a way of neutralizing them.
STOP BEING SO NIGEL ALL THE DAMN TIME!
\
:tgrr:
:lulz:
TGRR,
Off to look this Sapolsky guy up.
There's a special on Netflix about stress. I think it's from Nova. It has a lot of discussion about his work. And it's also kind of cool to see it presented in that way because at a certain point when they talk about all the alpha's dying off after showing what complete fuck-sticks they were, I ended up totally cheering.
Is it "Stress: The Silent Killer"? That's a good one, it has a lot of interesting information about studies done on hierarchy.
I also like how Sapolsky was totally up-front about the fact that he fucking hates baboons and thinks they're assholes. :lol: He's awesome.