So, according to the BBC, he was a self-described "conservative Republican" who supported the IRA (note: Sinn Fein are democratic socialists) who used the handle "Ironcross45" on the internet frequently (for those of you unfamiliar with Nazi paripenalia, the Iron Cross was a military decoration given out by the Second German Reich and Nazis...I'm sure you can decode what the 45 refers to).
And to top it all off, he appears to have previously attended a school for people with behavioural problems.
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Any word on the South Dakota issue?
Two school shootings in one day. America is just showing off, now.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:04:07 PM
Any word on the South Dakota issue?
Two school shootings in one day. America is just showing off, now.
Not much. I suspect due to his age there's a bit more restraint on digging into his personal life. That or he just got overshadowed by events in Oregon.
Found a Facebook page that is almost certainly, but there doesn't seem to be much past 2011 that is publically viewable.
Based on statements given by the school, it may have been personal. It appears Buhl had broken some rule (unspecified) and was due to meet with the principal about it at the time the shooting occured.
By god, he's /r9k/ and /pol/
The worse combination possible.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
We had a mall shooter a couple of years ago.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
We had a mall shooter a couple of years ago.
Same thing, or just a maniac?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
We had a mall shooter a couple of years ago.
Same thing, or just a maniac?
I guess I'm failing to recognize the distinction between the two.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:24:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
We had a mall shooter a couple of years ago.
Same thing, or just a maniac?
I guess I'm failing to recognize the distinction between the two.
One thinks his beliefs justify violent action.
One thinks Barney Rubble is giving him instructions.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:04:07 PM
Any word on the South Dakota issue?
Two school shootings in one day. America is just showing off, now.
I had no idea there were two yesterday until just now. All eyes seemed to be on Oregon from what I was seeing last night, but that was my search criteria.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=37552.msg1385758#msg1385758
I had a thought, in another thread.
And I fear that I am becoming prone to trying to think about the shooter's mental state, rather than howling for his blood like a proper American.
That's the thing, I think. People don't want to think too hard about the mind of a killer, lest they find that they can actually empathize level with them on some level. It's easier, more comforting, to have villains and heroes, black and white.
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people. Nope, easier to just listen to the talking heads argue about gun control and security in schools.
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Yup!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Cookies to anyone who can turn that into an article.
Fuck, cookies for EVERYONE if that gets turned into an article. I am sick of the "don't glorify the perpetrators" narrative. You don't fix problems by focusing on where they aren't.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 02, 2015, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Cookies to anyone who can turn that into an article.
Fuck, cookies for EVERYONE if that gets turned into an article. I am sick of the "don't glorify the perpetrators" narrative. You don't fix problems by focusing on where they aren't.
I'll write something here, with Nast's permission, but I don't do articles.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 02, 2015, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Cookies to anyone who can turn that into an article.
Fuck, cookies for EVERYONE if that gets turned into an article. I am sick of the "don't glorify the perpetrators" narrative. You don't fix problems by focusing on where they aren't.
I'll write something here, with Nast's permission, but I don't do articles.
You have 110% of my permission!
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 02, 2015, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Cookies to anyone who can turn that into an article.
Fuck, cookies for EVERYONE if that gets turned into an article. I am sick of the "don't glorify the perpetrators" narrative. You don't fix problems by focusing on where they aren't.
I'll write something here, with Nast's permission, but I don't do articles.
You have 110% of my permission!
Okay, let me see what I can do with it.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 10:37:52 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 02, 2015, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people.
THAT SHIT. RIGHT THERE.
Cookies to anyone who can turn that into an article.
Fuck, cookies for EVERYONE if that gets turned into an article. I am sick of the "don't glorify the perpetrators" narrative. You don't fix problems by focusing on where they aren't.
I'll write something here, with Nast's permission, but I don't do articles.
You have 110% of my permission!
Okay, let me see what I can do with it.
On a note about his environment, Redgy Semaj has been a long time, if rare posting, FB friend of mine and posted this not long ago. Asked him if I might share it here and he said go.
Seems like a pretty sick environment to me. (https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/) I can barely read the shit and haven't finished yet, but will after I post this.
The term "moralfag" made me want to purge the heretic really, really thoroughly. :evilmad:
On a technical note is this from some sort of reddit archive site?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:24:22 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 07:10:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 02, 2015, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 02, 2015, 03:43:09 PM
In other words, a typical Oregon boy.
Portland as compared to the rest of Oregon is sort of like the Egyptian national museum surrounded by ISIS. It boggles my mind that this sort of thing hasn't happened before.
We had a mall shooter a couple of years ago.
Same thing, or just a maniac?
I guess I'm failing to recognize the distinction between the two.
One thinks his beliefs justify violent action.
One thinks Barney Rubble is giving him instructions.
I think that the line between these two is too thin to place them in separate categories.
I would like to participate more meaningfully in this thread but I really am just not emotionally in a place where I can do that. It's too close to home, in too many ways. Hopefully later on after letting it settle I can contribute more.
One of the thoughts I keep having is about how we send kids to war where they shoot people and that's supposed be OK, but then sometimes, like my little brother, they come home and they try to live a normal life and go to school and they can't do it and they put a gun in their mouths because they just spent the last 18 months shooting people they don't know and they cannot reconcile being a person who murders strangers with being a guy who goes to class and makes friends and is a good human being.
And then there are little loser assholes like this guy, and all the other guys who decide to shoot up a school or a mall or a park, and I honestly just can't reconcile that we have kids that we SEND PLACES to murder strangers and then we act all shocked when someone murders strangers here.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 03, 2015, 05:10:37 AM
I would like to participate more meaningfully in this thread but I really am just not emotionally in a place where I can do that. It's too close to home, in too many ways. Hopefully later on after letting it settle I can contribute more.
One of the thoughts I keep having is about how we send kids to war where they shoot people and that's supposed be OK, but then sometimes, like my little brother, they come home and they try to live a normal life and go to school and they can't do it and they put a gun in their mouths because they just spent the last 18 months shooting people they don't know and they cannot reconcile being a person who murders strangers with being a guy who goes to class and makes friends and is a good human being.
And then there are little loser assholes like this guy, and all the other guys who decide to shoot up a school or a mall or a park, and I honestly just can't reconcile that we have kids that we SEND PLACES to murder strangers and then we act all shocked when someone murders strangers here.
My sincere condolences Nigel. One of my brothers very nearly did the same for quite different reasons. I'll tell the whole story sometime soonish, but I have life-long scars inside and out from the matter.
I too wonder at how we can take someone and weaponize them with absolutely no government systems in place, that I know of, to support their return to civilian life. Marines particularly get a serious mind job done on them to support their battle function, yet when they are discharged, for whatever reason, no trouble is taken to ensure that they can re-adapt.
I lost a very good friend from high school to the Marines. When I saw him again some years ago he WAS like a different person with my old friend's memories. As far as I know he's still in, alive and well, but we could not re-connect meaningfully. I was now a sheep to him. I asked him if he'd follow an order to kill me without evidence of direct threat. He said yes. I asked how he would react if he knew or later discovered that the order was given wrongly and unlawfully. He said he'd follow orders.
There was no lie in his eyes, but I could see his doubt for a moment just before he broke eye contact. I kept looking straight at him until he looked up again and something ELSE had replaced that doubt in about 2 seconds. For the first time in a long time I felt rattled and HAD to look away. It just wasn't him, what was left of my old friend was running on a new OS that saw in me only a hostile signal.
I respect the Marines and the military generally, but they took my friend and I can't, I won't, forgive or forget. Neither seems wise at all.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 03, 2015, 05:10:37 AM
I would like to participate more meaningfully in this thread but I really am just not emotionally in a place where I can do that. It's too close to home, in too many ways. Hopefully later on after letting it settle I can contribute more.
One of the thoughts I keep having is about how we send kids to war where they shoot people and that's supposed be OK, but then sometimes, like my little brother, they come home and they try to live a normal life and go to school and they can't do it and they put a gun in their mouths because they just spent the last 18 months shooting people they don't know and they cannot reconcile being a person who murders strangers with being a guy who goes to class and makes friends and is a good human being.
And then there are little loser assholes like this guy, and all the other guys who decide to shoot up a school or a mall or a park, and I honestly just can't reconcile that we have kids that we SEND PLACES to murder strangers and then we act all shocked when someone murders strangers here.
I can't argue with a single thing you said here.
Kalera's Principle, again: You cannot brutalize others without brutalizing yourself.
TGRR's corollary: This applies to nations as well as individuals.
We've spent 220 years shitting on everyone's parade. How would we not expect to have a bumper crop of lunatics?
Quote from: Nast on October 02, 2015, 09:44:40 PM
That's the thing, I think. People don't want to think too hard about the mind of a killer, lest they find that they can actually empathize level with them on some level. It's easier, more comforting, to have villains and heroes, black and white.
And people don't want to think about how our society is an environment that keeps producing these people. Nope, easier to just listen to the talking heads argue about gun control and security in schools.
No way! It's them dang liberals and their dang ol' War on Christianity what dunnit! Jesus dun tole us this would happen!
I think in some weird way and hompodge of reactions this comes down to our society being way too sex centered.
It's breeding a lot of sexualy frustrated young people. Who hsve no way to get release, and that builds over years. Plus when the media says "you must look like X to get sex" which isnt true, but to people who don't meet standerds it's a big blow to self esteem. There's no support group for people like that. The old /r9k/ was like that.
So in my shitty opinion we as a society should either, focus less on sex being required to be normal, have therapist for people whom view themselfs as unfuckable, or legalize prostitution.
Quote from: Meunster on October 03, 2015, 11:41:00 PMmy shitty opinion
I hope you don't mind, I edited your post to only include the relevant parts.
I keep hearing that the Oregon shooter was anti-Christian. Has anyone else been getting that or is that Fox news misinformation?
He was anti-religion in general, going from his web posts. It appears he was asking people what faith they were, and then shooting them. Fox has spun this to make it sound like he was targeting Christians.
Quote from: LMNO on October 06, 2015, 04:03:44 PM
He was anti-religion in general, going from his web posts. It appears he was asking people what faith they were, and then shooting them. Fox has spun this to make it sound like he was targeting Christians.
From what I heard about the incident itself, he asked two people what religion they were, and when they answered Christian he shot them both.
So it's hard to say, without more to go on. Being antireligion in the USA would, in most circumstances, also mean being anti-Christian.
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
It was only a matter of time, once Atheism got a big enough umbrella.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2015, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
DON'T YOU GO BRINGING THAT "HISTORY" SHIT INTO MY INTERNET ATHEISMS!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2015, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
Atheists often argue that the Soviet Union doesn't count because a) Communism is, like, a modern religion man or b) yes Communists are atheists but they justified their violence in terms of Communism and not atheism or c) Lysenkoism means the Communists weren't real atheists.
Needless to say, all these arguments are pretty bad.
Quote from: Cain on October 06, 2015, 09:05:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2015, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
Atheists often argue that the Soviet Union doesn't count because a) Communism is, like, a modern religion man or b) yes Communists are atheists but they justified their violence in terms of Communism and not atheism or c) Lysenkoism means the Communists weren't real atheists.
Needless to say, all these arguments are pretty bad.
China today still very actively imprisons and executes missionaries and underground church members. That's just Chrisians. They have suppressed pretty much ALL faith on pain of persecution and death.
I'm not sure that the shooter was in fact an Atheist specifically out to gun down folks for believing, but the matter clearly was on his malfunctioning mind. Some of the NRx shit I've been looking into has me wondering if perhaps the formula for radicalization of Muslims isn't being applied to other faiths quite purposefully. That's just flat out speculation right now, but my gut has me wondering.
Just like America uses the excuse to invade other countries as "Defending our Freedom.", Christians like to fantasize about being prosecuted on a massive scale just so they can get a rain-check on freely abusing any group they want.
Quote from: The Johnny on October 06, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
Just like America uses the excuse to invade other countries as "Defending our Freedom.", Christians like to fantasize about being prosecuted on a massive scale just so they can get a rain-check on freely abusing any group they want.
A free pass is more like it.
Anyway, their whining is my medicine.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2015, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
They weren't
real communists
And they weren't
real atheist.
Also they seemed to worship state more then the fedora or spaghetti monster.
Wait, it's been a week and no one has posted the school camera footage online so we can see if he did ask or not?
Technology age my ass.
The CTers decided to skip that step and just assume he didn't anyway. "Evidence" is a government conspiracy designed to keep people from pulling secret knowledge out of their arseholes.
Quote from: Cain on October 06, 2015, 09:05:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 06, 2015, 08:02:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
The Soviet state would like a word with you.
Atheists often argue that the Soviet Union doesn't count because a) Communism is, like, a modern religion man or b) yes Communists are atheists but they justified their violence in terms of Communism and not atheism or c) Lysenkoism means the Communists weren't real atheists.
Needless to say, all these arguments are pretty bad.
Yeah, Atheists are pretty quick to pull the No True Scotsman fallacy out and prance it around.
Quote from: LMNO on October 06, 2015, 06:45:27 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
It was only a matter of time, once Atheism got a big enough umbrella.
If Atheists become the majority, I expect seeing active persecution of the religious. They suffer from the same monkeydom that all the other monkeys suffer from.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 07, 2015, 12:12:31 AM
Quote from: LMNO on October 06, 2015, 06:45:27 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
It was only a matter of time, once Atheism got a big enough umbrella.
If Atheists become the majority, I expect seeing active persecution of the religious. They suffer from the same monkeydom that all the other monkeys suffer from.
On one hand, I'm in favor of this, because Christians are funny when you smack 'em.
On the other hand, atheists are funny all the time.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 07, 2015, 01:33:47 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on October 07, 2015, 12:12:31 AM
Quote from: LMNO on October 06, 2015, 06:45:27 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Does this mean that the whole "no one has ever killed in the name of Atheism!" argument that Dawkins fans like to use is sunk, or will it just change?
It was only a matter of time, once Atheism got a big enough umbrella.
If Atheists become the majority, I expect seeing active persecution of the religious. They suffer from the same monkeydom that all the other monkeys suffer from.
On one hand, I'm in favor of this, because Christians are funny when you smack 'em.
On the other hand, atheists are funny all the time.
:lulz:
Quote from: The Johnny on October 06, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
Just like America uses the excuse to invade other countries as "Defending our Freedom.", Christians like to fantasize about being prosecuted on a massive scale just so they can get a rain-check on freely abusing any group they want.
A rain check is where you get a ticket to buy something that is out of stock so that you can get it later at the reduced price. Christians have been spending persecution points on credit for centuries. We may be reaching the point where they start paying for that with interest. Some people want more than just the rights that have been denied them my Christians, they want the Christians to suffer, and if there's one thing that Christians love more than telling people how to live, it's a good, old-fashioned, self-fulfilling prophecy.
Quote from: Emo Howard on October 07, 2015, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on October 06, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
Just like America uses the excuse to invade other countries as "Defending our Freedom.", Christians like to fantasize about being prosecuted on a massive scale just so they can get a rain-check on freely abusing any group they want.
A rain check is where you get a ticket to buy something that is out of stock so that you can get it later at the reduced price. Christians have been spending persecution points on credit for centuries. We may be reaching the point where they start paying for that with interest. Some people want more than just the rights that have been denied them my Christians, they want the Christians to suffer, and if there's one thing that Christians love more than telling people how to live, it's a good, old-fashioned, self-fulfilling prophecy.
Right, I wasnt sure of using the right term, but i like the metaphor you went along with.