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This is very good stuff. Reminds me of the things I have heard about Numenera, at lest in terms of its setting premise.

That seems very similar to "did not learn to discriminate between two different proprioceptive inputs in this test." It might have been because of their reliance on that really cool mechanoreceptor that apparently operates off sucker deformation, but if a creature cannot learn to discriminate between two sensory inputs can it be said to have that sense?

I absolutely accept that I've probably misread this entire thing but that was the exact process I followed to get to where I got.

You are confusing the process of cognitively processing sensation inputs with responding to sensation inputs. If you touch a hot stove and jerk away before you understand what happened, does the sensation that caused you to jerk away actually happen in the milliseconds between the reflexive response and the cognitive response?

It is fairly certain that flatworms have no cognitive reasoning and cannot learn at all, but they nonetheless have senses and can orient themselves according to relevant sensory inputs.

Sensation precedes, and indeed is necessary for, thought.

It would be interesting to explore sapient squids feeling untethered (can't think of the proper word for the mind/body disconnect) from their limbs. Certainly they can manipulate objects with them, but there's a lot more unconscious processing occurring.

Imagine being able to truthfully say "I didn't mean to grab your ass. It just happened."

Well, and if some evil cluster of masterminds is steering this whole thing, it means we aren't actually careening uncontrollably toward disaster that nobody has the power to avert. It means that the Chosen will survive and carry on. In some ways that's got to be very comforting.

Yeah. I have to wonder why I don't believe in a conspiracy myself. I mean, it's probably not due to me being smart.

Yes, it's probably been a meme for a while. I've seen this discussed on Slacktivist a lot.

There is also moral superiority to be had. And it's FREE. Just assume there are a cabal of evil Satanists murdering babies and having non-consensual sex with dogs, and you're instantly one of the good guys, because you do NOT do that. And the reason you don't stop it is because they're in charge of everything! What you're doing now, bleating about bullshit? It's the only way to stop them!

Not just order, but MORAL order. If that makes sense.

 And so it is that we, as men, do not exist until we do; and then it is that we play with our world of existent things, and order and disorder them, and so it shall be that non-existence shall take us back from existence and that nameless spirituality shall return to Void, like a tired child home from a very wild circus.

Etiquette! Dang, I knew it was something obvious! Thanks for the link and the keyword. I'll check it out soon as I can!

Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.

Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.

But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.

...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?

It seems more like you did not ask what you actually want to know, but asked a much more vague question that will not get you the answers you desire.

One of my children is autistic, as is her father, and one of the important things we have worked on all her life is getting her to identify (for herself) what it is she actually wants, so that she can work on the next step (expressing it to others). This can be very difficult for autistic people.

In your post, you have identified the problem as being people's interpretation of the word "normal". However, upon closer scrutiny, it seems like the problem is in gaining information about acceptable and pleasing social behavior.

Am I correct?

Precisely it. Man, for someone with pretensions to being a writer, I suck at getting across what I mean.

I mean, my therapist calls it socialization, along with other social workers. But you can't use that word. And unpacking such concepts for people is as fun and fruitful as masturbation.

Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.

Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.

But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.

...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?

In Discordia, as I've come to understand it, there's a general divide between normal and weird. In everyday life, everyone takes offense at being called normal. No one wants to be called normal, ever. I find the word normal a useful one for trying to understand society at large, for trying to understand cultural attitudes, and so on. But if I ask someone to help me understand what the normal thing is...they deny, deny, deny that there IS such a thing as normal.

Fine, everyone's a special snowflake, even the ones who hate self-proclaimed special snowflakes. But I need the concept of normal so I can find a way to blend in, and not stick out like a sore thumb. I don't want to be a freak by mistake, which can happen too easily since I'm almost a hermit and definitely Aspergers.

So, given this... What did they replace the word "normal" with? Because I sure as hell don't believe everyone is accepting everyone else as individuals to be understood one at a time.

...if none of this made sense, please ask me, and I shall respond and try to explain further.

This is a good point. Plus, if you create your own pantheon, you can cherry pick the parts you like (tentacle sexdeath), and leave out what you don't (alien cone time-traveling librarians of Yith; racism).

...I like the Great Race of Yith, though.

http://www.tor.com/stories/2014/05/the-litany-of-earth-ruthanna-emrys

This story in particular managed to make them pretty cool for me.

I absolutely adore a lot of Lovecraft's stuff... but.

The problem with lifting familiar names wholesale is that they immediately color your work towards parody. These days, the Cthulhu Mythos has been so heavily co-opted by the geek culture that they don't inspire any of the original sense of the unknown. They can't; everyone knows what these names mean in the fantasy/sci-fi/horror space. You're basically importing a whole bunch of baggage wholesale, so either you spend an inordinate amount of time explaining how your Cthulhu is different, or you accept the preconceptions your audience will likely bring with it. Mostly, these will be comedic - which is fine if that's what you're going for, but can hurt your tone if it isn't.

I'd suggest just using different names to bypass the issue completely. Its a little ironic, but pretty much the only way to invoke Lovecraftian ideas, these days, is pretty much to ignore all the existing Mythos and craft your own.

That would be sensible advice for a Lovecraft story, yes. I'll use it eventually, since eldritch horror does interest me a little.

But I am using Cthulhu Mythos for the ingeniopods because it IS part of the culture. I'm not trying to replicate the setting that Cthulhu and friends are from. Humanity in the story had Lovecraft write his stories, and the same geek culture. It would probably be weird if they tried to create knockoff gods while the humans are aware of the origin.

Sorry for not replying for a while. Busy with Christmas and other wild trains of thought! I do plan to watch that video, and discuss things. But first...

Cephalopods lack proprioception entirely, if I'm not mistaken. Behaviorally, it's very interesting.

You are not only mistaken, but you are so very mistaken that I am wondering if you know what proprioception means.

That wouldn't even make sense for an animal to lack proprioception, especially one with a multitude of limbs.

It's kind of a hilarious thought, though. But yeah, I don't think any animals lack proprioception, even flatworms. It's kind of a necessary element for that whole having-a-body-that-moves thing.

Cephalopods might not all be the same, but it is true that octopi have poor proprioception. In fact, there's a few interesting articles floating around about how their tentacles have minds of their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Senses My citation, for what it's worth.

7. Every weird writer you love has encoded messages into their writing. All of them. Even the ones who hate you.

I was trying to research puns in other cultures, and found this.

http://qz.com/304268/why-china-is-now-banning-puns/

Thoughts?

And small children, for whom puns are a valuable exercise.

And children's book authors, who help show children how puns work?

Language play of any kind is a completely legitimate game for everyone who works with small children.

My, my, but someone seems a little defensive about puns.

Mostly because I like to read classic children's lit and watch cartoons. I won't deny the groan reflex, but I believe in art. And puns are one form of art.

Plus I am not certain a groan at a pun is a universal constant. I think I read somewhere Japan has a great love for puns. But I need to read more about this.

You seem to be a believer in many things which you have not researched.

Yes, a flaw I admit to freely. I do promise to research more fully in the morning after sleeping a few more hours.

But as to whether I'm a child? I'm 26 years old. Have I, er, been overstepping obvious bounds?