Hey cats. I've started a project at 23ae.com called the
Annotated Principia Discordia (http://23ae.com/2011/10/annotated-principia-discordia/).
The
Principia is dense, sometimes confusing, and contains a lot of obscure references. I'd like to examine those things and hold them under a magnifying glass. I'm curious about what sorts of things Mal and Omar were thinking about when they put it together.
Every Thursday, I'll post another section from the 5th ed
Principia and share my notes, observations, and other crammings.
The first section is posted now. http://23ae.com/2011/10/annotated-principia-discordia-page-5/
A lot of this will be old news to the PD scholars on this forum. But I am already finding some cool stuff that I had never noticed before.
As an example, here's a section from the upcoming entry about the Pentabarf:
QuoteLet's take a look at this line:
after 10 weeks & 11 hours of intensive scrutiny he discerned that the message could be read by standing on his head and viewing it upside down.
These are not just random numbers. There's a joke here if you look for it.
10 weeks and 11 hours is a specific amount of time: 1691 hours.
Notice anything funny about that number?
(http://xa1.xanga.com/a85f2510c8630251874623/b200021888.jpg)
If you stand on your head and view it upside down, it's still 1691.
Right-side up or upside down, it's the same thing. Mal and Omar are telling us that opposites are balanced, another recurring Discordian theme. Mal-2 already touched on this theme in his Greater Poop interview where he tells us "False things are also true".
The Principia will return to this on page 00009, where there's a Niels Bohr quote: "The opposite of a trivial truth is false; the opposite of a great truth is also true. "
I enjoy pretending I'm a monk studying the bible or something, meditating on some old illuminated manuscript.
I invite you join me in sharing your own observations on each section.
Whoa, I LOVE THIS! :mittens:
How did you find out that bit about the Persian verse?
Are you going to do the pages in random order or did you start at page 5 because it's sort of the front page minus the introduction?
Special tip/request: can you either tag the posts or put them in a category or something so that you can easily browse them all?
Thanks Trip!
Quote from: Triple Zero on October 20, 2011, 09:16:56 PM
How did you find out that bit about the Persian verse?
I've been a fan of the Rubiyat for a while. I've got a really nice 50 year old copy on my bedside table. Fitzgerald published four different translations of that verse, and Kerry's version doesn't match any of them.
QuoteAre you going to do the pages in random order or did you start at page 5 because it's sort of the front page minus the introduction?
I actually realized a bit too late that I'm using the page numbers listed on our site rather than the
real page numbers.
I started on that page because I didn't want to review the RAW intro, it kind of speaks for itself.
QuoteSpecial tip/request: can you either tag the posts or put them in a category or something so that you can easily browse them all?
Yep! I made a Principia Discordia category (http://23ae.com/category/principia-discordia-2/) where you'll be able to see all the posts in the series.
Cool project!
I think is amazing Cram.
The style is a tad too colloquial for my taste, but it does work, and I don't have any better suggestions on tone. I've already learned a lot just from the little bit that I've read. Love it!
Oooh! Awesome, I need to read this and contribute!
Thanks cram...posting for updates!!
This is a great idea (a trivial thing to say on my part, but that won't stop me). I am surprised that annotations and commentaries along these lines aren't widely available. You can find fifty different versions of one enigmatic little book, and yet there's such hesitance to get into the nitty-gritty details and explore the weirdness of it all. That observation about the "ten weeks eleven days" was great, it's one of those things that's so easy to overlook. That's some good thinking ya got there smartypants. Keep it coming.
Love this, Cram. I want more.
When I was in high school, I wrote a commentary on the Tao Te Ching, and it made me really sit down and think about every chapter, every line, to try to squeeze the hell out of it. I was trying to figure out not only what the author may mean, but what it may mean to me and other people. It was a really good exercise.
posting for updates
Second post! Today we're talking about the Greater Poop interview which occurs before the title page.
http://23ae.com/2011/10/annotated-principia-discordia-page-6-greater-poop
So far, I've written enough of these to last through the New Year - frustrating to see them trickle out 1x per week. But that's definitely better than posting like 7 in one day and then a month of silence.
I'm digging this, Cram!
Hey Telarus - for next week's entry, I'm going to mention the official Discordian document numbering system
As I understand it, this code: ODD# II/2,xii;68Chs3136
means this document was written by Mal-2 on December 26, 1970.
What does the II/2,xii part mean? I know it's supposed to represent which sect of Discordia the document comes from. But which one is II/2,xii?
Quote from: Cramulus on October 27, 2011, 03:45:43 PM
Hey Telarus - for next week's entry, I'm going to mention the official Discordian document numbering system
As I understand it, this code: ODD# II/2,xii;68Chs3136
means this document was written by Mal-2 on December 26, 1970.
What does the II/2,xii part mean? I know it's supposed to represent which sect of Discordia the document comes from. But which one is II/2,xii?
How were you even able to decipher...
Oh, right. Discordian Calendar. 68th day of Chaos, Year 3136. I forget we have one of those.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 27, 2011, 03:45:43 PM
Hey Telarus - for next week's entry, I'm going to mention the official Discordian document numbering system
As I understand it, this code: ODD# II/2,xii;68Chs3136
means this document was written by Mal-2 on December 26, 1970.
What does the II/2,xii part mean? I know it's supposed to represent which sect of Discordia the document comes from. But which one is II/2,xii?
Where did you get the ODD#? I'd like to see the source.
Best I can tell, if that is a 'modern' ODD# (I.E based on the last incarnation of the POEE Chart (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/27.php), which got included in the PD), it breaks down thusly:
You have the date.
The other code
II/2,xii seems to indicate that this is a document from [ II (The house of the Rising Collapse); no submarker, as the next section is the same?] / [ 2 (The House of the Rising Collapse); xii (twelve? ok, if I just cycle count I get
B. The Breeze of Integrity and/or The Wind of Arrogance ]
Unless I can get more info, or we uncover an updated Disorganizational Matrix......
Tonight, I'm the sauce boss: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/7.php
Shit, how'd I miss that one. Ok, now to compare it to some of the other editions.
Ok, found another ODD# to compare it to (fuck you google, I need literal strings):
ODD #IV(c);biii;23DSC3155
http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/five_realities.html
This seems to translate to:
IV(c) - The Legion of Dynamic Discord
b iii - The Breeze of Beauty and/or The Wind of Outrages
----------------------------------------------------------
See, now I want to find more. There's a couple more on jubal.westnet.com. OH, here we go:
http://www.23ae.com/format/pdorig/pdorig055.htm
Form No. : O.D.D. Iib/ii.1-37D.VVM:3134
II b - The Breeze of Integrity and/or The Wind of Arrogance
ii.1 - The Breeze of Wisdom and/or The Wind of Insanity
--------------------------------------------
Oh, and in RAW's Illuminati Papers we have this communique:
http://books.google.com/books?id=v040Hpa7xnoC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=%22Official+Discordian+Document%22+-Shall&source=bl&ots=z4OyQqsJWj&sig=PHvvxOLybvJciLrTiLVyjHvFLzs&hl=en&ei=SZ6pTtvsMauksQKKpNSkDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=%22Official%20Discordian%20Document%22%20-Shall&f=false
ODD# 2b;iii/V;60EM3134
2 b - The Breeze of Integrity and/or The Wind of Arrogance
iii/V - The Bureau of Aneristic Affairs, and the Administry for the Orders of Discordia
:mittens:
I'm looking forward to the next installment!
Today we're looking at the second title page:
http://23ae.com/2011/11/annotated-principia-discordia-page-7/
Big thanks to Telarus for the info hookup!
short post today, discussing page 2:
http://23ae.com/2011/11/annotated-principia-discordia-page-8/
Help me out remembering some tidbits from Illuminatus---
Is Gruad the Gray the same dude as Zarathud (patron saint of Bureaucracy)?
(http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/zarathud.gif)
I know Gruad and the Dealy Lama are the same guy.
from TVTropes entry on "True Neutral (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrueNeutral)":
QuoteThe Dealy Lama AKA Gruad the Grayface from The Illuminatus! Trilogy. His philosophy is summed up best by an old koan which tells about a duckling that is placed in a glass bottle and allowed to grow until it is too big to fit through the bottle neck, and asks how to remove it without breaking the bottle. The answer, of course is to let it continue to grow until it is big enough to break out of the bottle on its own. However, he denies being uninvolved in world affairs, stating that "someone needs to feed the duckling while it grows".
that does seem like it might fit with the actions of the patron saint of bureaucracy... Because the Discordian approach to order is to feed the order until it hits the breaking point, making room for Aftermath. If I'm sniffing up the right tree, then that's Zarathud's advice to us -- "Feed the duck until it can destroy the bottle by itself."
can anybody translate?
DIRUIT AEDIFICAT MUTAT QUADRATA ROTUNDUS
- Horace
(from page 00015)
Quote from: Cramulus on November 10, 2011, 03:43:20 PM
can anybody translate?
DIRUIT AEDIFICAT MUTAT QUADRATA ROTUNDUS
(from page 00015)
Dirty wikipedia latin delivers this:
diruit> diruo
Verb
present active dīruō, present infinitive dīruere, perfect active dīruī, supine dīrutum.
I overthrow, demolish, destroy
I scatter
aedificat> aedifico
Verb
present active aedificō, present infinitive aedificāre, perfect active aedificāvī, supine aedificātum.
I build, erect, establish; I create, frame
mutat> muto
Verb
present active mūtō, present infinitive mūtāre, perfect active mūtāvī, supine mūtātum.
I move, remove.
I alter, change, modify, transform.
I vary, diversify.
I mutate, spoil.
I exchange, barter, sell.
I forsake.
quadrata> quadro
Verb
present active quadrō, present infinitive quadrāre, perfect active quadrāvī, supine quadrātum.
I make four-cornered, square, make square.
I put in order, join properly, complete, perfect.
(passive) I agree with, fit with, square with.
(of accounts) I accord, agree.
(of words) I am fitting, appropriate.
rotundus>
Adjective
rotundus m (feminine rotunda, neuter rotundum); first/second declension
round, circular
spherical, rotund
(figuratively) rounded, perfect
(figuratively, of speech) polished, elegant
(substantive) A sphere
Paging Phox.
It's from Horace's Epistles I.
Here is the full verse it is found in:
QuoteIf, when we meet, I'm cropped in awkward style
By some uneven barber, then you smile;
You smile, if, as it haps, my gown's askew,
If my shirt's ragged while my tunic's new:
How, if my mind's inconsequent, rejects
What late it longed for, what it loathed affects,
Shifts every moment, with itself at strife,
And makes a chaos of an ordered life,
Builds castles up, then pulls them to the ground,
Keeps changing round for square and square for round?
You smile not; 'tis an every-day affair;
I need no doctor's, no, nor keeper's care:
Yet you're my patron, and would blush to fail
In taking notice of an ill-pared nail.
So, to sum up: the sage is half divine,
Rich, free, great, handsome, king of kings, in fine;
A miracle of health from toe to crown,
Mind, heart, and head, save when his nose runs down.
:mittens:
Exactly what I was looking for.
You are the MAN.
Cain beat me to it! Nice work Cain.
This site (http://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/HoraceEpistlesBkIEpI.htm) has an alternate translation:
Razing, re-building, and altering round to square:
Or this one: http://www.authorama.com/works-of-horace-8.html
What [do you do], when my judgment contradicts itself? it despises what it before desired; seeks for that which lately it neglected; is all in a ferment, and is inconsistent in the whole tenor of life; pulls down, builds up, changes square to round.
This thread is great. Cram I'm truly impressed and almost giddy to read this work. Mittens are not enough!
Hi Cram, why didn't my comments appear for these? Is moderation on?
I'm on 23ea, saw the comments but its not my article so I can't approve them myself. But yeah, modded.
Yep, moderated comments. We get about 4 spam comments per real comment. :P
Approved them, you should be able to see them now.
Quote from: Cramulus on November 11, 2011, 02:14:44 PM
Yep, moderated comments. We get about 4 spam comments per real comment. :P
Approved them, you should be able to see them now.
You should really captcha those
Today's post: http://23ae.com/2011/11/annotated-principia-discordia-page-10-the-sacred-chao/
This morning we're squinting at the Nietzsche quote "I tell you - One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star!"
I'd suggest you look up the original quote, and then put it in it's original context.
No, I don't know where it's from.
did you read my article? that's just what I did
23ae is blocked at work. So sorry.
QuoteThe Principia, with its emphasis on context, joy, re-appropriation, and self-generated meaning, establishes itself as a postmodern work. It holds our values at arms length, because they are little more than social constructs. Instead, it emphasizes the individual's unique relationship with values and culture and identifies this as a potential avenue for new growth.
This is the best short description of the PD I think I've ever encountered.
Last week, we discussed the Pentabarf and the secret joke hidden in the preamble:
http://23ae.com/2011/11/annotated-principia-discordia-page-11-the-pentabarf/
Today we introduce Camden Benares, the Count of Five:
http://23ae.com/2011/12/annotated-principia-discordia-page-12-a-zen-story/
Thanks Cram!
I've been so burnt out on code that I've missed these. Once again, Prof. Cramulus keeps the party rocking.
It's like we have our own Mr. Wizard of Mustachio'd Slack.
I really liked todays entry cram, this is a really cool project you are doing.
I think I've located Rev. Mungojerry Grindlebone, who wrote the Erisian Hymn on Page 00019. I've e-mailed him. I'm hoping I can get an interview. :D
btw, our article about The Law of 5s is up today: http://23ae.com/2012/01/page-16-the-law-of-fives/
http://23ae.com/2012/02/page-17-18-the-myth-of-the-apple-of-discord/