Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2008, 06:04:00 am

Title: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2008, 06:04:00 am
At stake in this primary race is not just a nomination for President of the United States, or even a victory in November's general election. It should be obvious to any observer, inside or out, that the intense emotions being brought out here are no less than an historic and potentially deadly crisis of identity for the Democratic Party. The Clinton camp has done everything in its power to cast this as a fight between "working Americans" and "the latte-sipping crowd," but almost nothing could be farther from the truth. Class, income, and lifestyle has little to do with this struggle. And it has nothing to do with gender or race or any other perennially convenient cross-section of voters, either.

It is far simpler, far more dangerous, and for some reason far more unexpected than any of that. It is a struggle between those who control the party -- and their children. Baby Boomers versus Generation X. Of course, there is bleed-over in support from both directions, but by and large, we are seeing an attempted coup-de-tat in progress by members of a younger, more idealistic generation who are not ready to settle for the failures and compromises of the Hippie generation. Is this any surprise, after seeing the havoc wreaked by the Flower Children in 1968, when they were as insistent on their demands as Generation X is today?

The torch is being passed. And the Democratic Party has two options: either listen to the People, give them their Nominee and hand over the reigns of Democratic power to young people with fresh ideas and the energy to carry this party into this century... or die. And that is no exaggeration. If millions of people are told in August that their voices and their demands have no place in the "Grown-Up's" Democratic Party, they will revolt in a heartbeat, and the next generation of Democrats will turn away.

Some of them will join the Republicans. Some of them will join the already-too-large ranks of apathetic citizens. Some of them will dissipate into third parties. Only a few of them will remain loyal to the party that has shown contempt for the future -- certainly not enough to make the Democratic Party strong, or even viable, for another generation.

I am among these voters who demand a new and invigorated Democratic Party. I, like millions of others, am tired of watching as the Democratic Party makes big promises and fails to act on behalf of the People. I am sick of my vote being assumed, and of my demands being swept under the rug while my party plays "safe politics." And I will not be ignored, especially when for the first time even among Democratic voters, my voice is chanting with the majority, demanding a new direction in Washington.

If Barack Obama ends up with a majority in popular votes and delegates, only to have his nomination railroaded because party elites have decided they know what is best for me more than I do, I will vote for McCain in November. Not because I hate Hillary (because I don't), but because it is intolerable to toy with the will of the People. I do not care who is the "safer" candidate in November. I do not care who has contributed what to whom, or who owes political favors to whom. I do not care about anything this year except that for the first time in my lifetime my vote actually counts. As for Hillary, she needs to be aware that my generation is not full of idiots, and we do not lie down to her claims just because they come out of her mouth. And every time she accuses Barack Obama of "disenfranchising" voters in Florida and Michigan because their state party broke the rules, it only makes her attempts to disenfranchise a majority of all Democrats nationally by calling on their delegates to abandon their pledges look more and more disgusting.

And not only will I vote for McCain, I will vote Republican for every single position on my ballot, from United States Senator to Neighborhood Watch Chairman. I will do this knowing full well that if my votes turn out victorious it will spell discomfort and pain for millions of Americans for at least four years. But I truly believe that if the Democratic Party cannot live up to its name, it deserves not only to be defeated, but to be dissolved. Again, I would not do this to spite Hillary: if she ends up winning the popular vote, then she'll have mine. But if she, through slimy politicking, back-channels, and democracy-subverting tricks, steals this nomination -- not from Barack Obama, but from the People whose voices are so clearly demanding a departure from the politics of the Boomers -- my hand will be forced. I would rather put up with failed Republican policy for four more years than allow my party to devolve further into an aristocratic cesspool of insider power plays while assuming it has my support.

So, to the "superdelegates," I have only this to say: As you cast your vote or make known your allegience, know that while you can deny the People our voice in your process, we can deny the entire Democratic Party its voice in Washington. We are the People, and regardless of your political calculations, we can send the lot of you to the political sewers in a single night this November.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2008, 06:05:21 am
Shit yeah.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 08, 2008, 07:55:44 am
I am of the opinion that all the "hope and change" crap coming from the Obama camp is just that....crap.  and of the bull variety.  I will be happy if either of them get it, but I srsly doubt that Barack would deliver any more than Hillary would.  Actually I think Hillary would be able to get more done for the people, but anyway...that's just my opinion.  The "hope and change" crap that gives so many people a warm, fuzzy feeling inside is just good marketing.

As for voting for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination, (by the rules and regulations set up by this government, "for the people and by the people") you are just being stupid.

Thats like having chocolate cake and strawberry cake and a bowl of shit; where you really want some strawberry cake, but someone takes it away, so you just get mad and opt for the bowl of shit instead of chocolate.  If McCain wins, I am blaming you personally.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2008, 04:29:55 pm
I am of the opinion that all the "hope and change" crap coming from the Obama camp is just that....crap.  and of the bull variety.  I will be happy if either of them get it, but I srsly doubt that Barack would deliver any more than Hillary would.  Actually I think Hillary would be able to get more done for the people, but anyway...that's just my opinion.  The "hope and change" crap that gives so many people a warm, fuzzy feeling inside is just good marketing.

As for voting for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination, (by the rules and regulations set up by this government, "for the people and by the people") you are just being stupid.

Thats like having chocolate cake and strawberry cake and a bowl of shit; where you really want some strawberry cake, but someone takes it away, so you just get mad and opt for the bowl of shit instead of chocolate.  If McCain wins, I am blaming you personally.

A lot of people, like you, are very good at missing the point of all these mainstream rants I keep coming up with. Maybe I haven't explained myself well enough.

First of all, I don't give a fuck about Barack Obama. What I do care about is that this guy, who was supposed to be the Token Black Guy in the Democratic field (and hence less owned/controlled by party elites), has run away with the popular vote and is currently poised to become a candidate for President. He caught the Old Guard completely by disguise, and he is the best chance at the People actually getting a fucking voice in any national election in at least 100 years*.

What is at stake here is a surprise for me, and that is the only reason I am among those who care about this election. This kind of thing -- popular candidates running away with the popular vote in spite of there being a well-positioned hand-selected heir to the national throne -- is not supposed to happen. Our system "of/by/for the People" was designed to prevent the People from actually having much of a say in the direction of the country. That system is broken this year, and there is a chance to put somebody into office who is, while 'mainstream' in his policy, pretty open about the fact that DC is a pile of shit that needs an overhaul.

I would be supporting any candidate from any party who broke through the elites' stranglehold this way. Barack Obama just happens to be the guy who is in that position.

Hope and Change is irrelevant. For me, the simple fact that Obama was supposed to lose but is winning instead is enough "hope" and "change." And it pisses me off when I am written off as some obamafag blindly supporting a mainstream candidate. I'm not in this to sell out and acquiesce to the status quo, I'm in it to take advantage of an opportunity that wasn't supposed to be presented to me.

As for McCain, I will vote straight Republican if the DNC steals this nomination for Clinton, for exactly the reasons I mentioned. But my rants are not really intended for the audience at PDCOM, I just post them here. They're intended for dissemination to a wider, more mainstream audience, in hopes that a few people might start to see that Obama is a chink in the armor of the two-party oppression system. I have to sound pretty mainstream in order to get any attention from anybody who isn't already initiated to the idea that Democrats and Republicans are playing for the same team.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 08, 2008, 04:35:09 pm
I am of the opinion that all the "hope and change" crap coming from the Obama camp is just that....crap.  and of the bull variety.  I will be happy if either of them get it, but I srsly doubt that Barack would deliver any more than Hillary would.  Actually I think Hillary would be able to get more done for the people, but anyway...that's just my opinion.  The "hope and change" crap that gives so many people a warm, fuzzy feeling inside is just good marketing.

As for voting for McCain if Hillary gets the nomination, (by the rules and regulations set up by this government, "for the people and by the people") you are just being stupid.

Thats like having chocolate cake and strawberry cake and a bowl of shit; where you really want some strawberry cake, but someone takes it away, so you just get mad and opt for the bowl of shit instead of chocolate.  If McCain wins, I am blaming you personally.

A bowl of shit? Really? Two corrupt parties, both regularly handing us shit for presidential candidates, both behaving pathetically in public, both more than willing to put the nations needs behind the needs of their own party... and you'll call one cake and the other shit?

Perhaps you're thinker and prover should have a chat.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Idem on April 08, 2008, 04:41:58 pm
Thats like having chocolate cake and strawberry cake and a bowl of shit; where you really want some strawberry cake, but someone takes it away, so you just get mad and opt for the bowl of shit instead of chocolate.  If McCain wins, I am blaming you personally.
Wait, what?  What the hell is the difference between Hillary and McCain?
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 08, 2008, 04:44:05 pm
:mittens: to the OP.  I hope you are able to get people outside of PD.COM to read it and understand it.  

I feel similar about Obama.  You hear it in the media a lot.  Hillary was supposed to win the Dem nomination.  Obama was supposed to be the token Black guy, and the feel-good, Cinderella story.  You know, kind of like Gonzaga was in the NCAA March Madness a few years back.  It was going to be good for a few months, a nice side-story, but eventually we were going to be talking about how Hillary would beat Giuliani (yeah that one didn't quite work out either).  

Do not be mistaken, the record turnouts at the Democratic Primaries, would not have happened without Obama, or someone in Obama's position.  That his campaign inspired so many first time voters IN A PRIMARY, is quite a notable acheivement.  It is hard to get people interested in the actual General Election, much less a primary or caucus.  In Portland, Maine, when we had the Maine Caucuses, they had people lined up for 4 blocks to get in and vote.  That has never happend before for a Caucus in Maine.  

I'm with Vex.  If Clinton and Howard Dean orchestrate some sort of take-over or pre-emption of the popular vote, then I won't vote for any of the Dems either.  For a party that was supposedly so outraged by how Bush stole the election from Gore, they certainly have a short-term memory.  It's either that or unabashed and blatant hypocrisy.  I'm not sure I want either having any form of power in the White House.  We've already had 8 years of that shit.  
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 08, 2008, 05:04:20 pm
:mittens: to the OP.  I hope you are able to get people outside of PD.COM to read it and understand it. 

I feel similar about Obama.  You hear it in the media a lot.  Hillary was supposed to win the Dem nomination.  Obama was supposed to be the token Black guy, and the feel-good, Cinderella story.  You know, kind of like Gonzaga was in the NCAA March Madness a few years back.  It was going to be good for a few months, a nice side-story, but eventually we were going to be talking about how Hillary would beat Giuliani (yeah that one didn't quite work out either). 

Do not be mistaken, the record turnouts at the Democratic Primaries, would not have happened without Obama, or someone in Obama's position.  That his campaign inspired so many first time voters IN A PRIMARY, is quite a notable acheivement.  It is hard to get people interested in the actual General Election, much less a primary or caucus.  In Portland, Maine, when we had the Maine Caucuses, they had people lined up for 4 blocks to get in and vote.  That has never happend before for a Caucus in Maine. 

I'm with Vex.  If Clinton and Howard Dean orchestrate some sort of take-over or pre-emption of the popular vote, then I won't vote for any of the Dems either.  For a party that was supposedly so outraged by how Bush stole the election from Gore, they certainly have a short-term memory.  It's either that or unabashed and blatant hypocrisy.  I'm not sure I want either having any form of power in the White House.  We've already had 8 years of that shit. 

I'm amazed at how everyone is assuming that the Dems would do something like that... so far, the only voices I've heard spouting nonsense about superdelegates, appear to either be part of Clinton's team or the FAUX News team....
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2008, 05:26:12 pm
Never underestimate the ability of the Democrats to blow the easiest electoral victory they've had in 150 years. These people are professional nitwits.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cramulus on April 08, 2008, 05:32:59 pm
In the Parable of the Gong, the young Discordian Golden Rod learns that it's his choice whether or not to wait at red lights. He then decides that in order to demonstrate his freedom, he must run every red light. His newfound freedom leads, ironically, to a dogmatic approach to choices.

I feel sympathy for his plight. Personally, I strongly resist two-party hegemony. I agree with Ratatosk in that both parties suck and neither are capable of enacting the types of changes we'd like. In past years I've voted third party, green party, independant party, trying to rally for Anybody But These Two Con Artists. I don't have to tell you about the two man con. It's there, and it's awful.

Vex and RWHN's efforts as of late have pointed out to me that I shouldn't just discount a democrat or a republican because they're a part of the two party hegemony - just like we shouldn't just run red lights because we can. And I thank them for that.

Any candidate who succeeds in making the "rationally apathetic" masses care - signifies to me that they're doing something right. I mean, sure, it may be a great rub or hussle. Maybe this is a grand manipulation and Obama is just a wolf in sheep's clothing. But if he succeeds in making people feel like they're a part of a positive force, a force of change, a dynamic vibration, that's something I can get behind.


Worst case scenario with a silver lining:
Obama is elected and is in fact an evil robot.
All those disenfranchised voters, who care about this shit, continue to pour their energy into fixing this diseased machine.

Memetic ripples, etc.
pass it on

Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 08, 2008, 05:37:01 pm
:mittens: to the OP.  I hope you are able to get people outside of PD.COM to read it and understand it. 

I feel similar about Obama.  You hear it in the media a lot.  Hillary was supposed to win the Dem nomination.  Obama was supposed to be the token Black guy, and the feel-good, Cinderella story.  You know, kind of like Gonzaga was in the NCAA March Madness a few years back.  It was going to be good for a few months, a nice side-story, but eventually we were going to be talking about how Hillary would beat Giuliani (yeah that one didn't quite work out either). 

Do not be mistaken, the record turnouts at the Democratic Primaries, would not have happened without Obama, or someone in Obama's position.  That his campaign inspired so many first time voters IN A PRIMARY, is quite a notable acheivement.  It is hard to get people interested in the actual General Election, much less a primary or caucus.  In Portland, Maine, when we had the Maine Caucuses, they had people lined up for 4 blocks to get in and vote.  That has never happend before for a Caucus in Maine. 

I'm with Vex.  If Clinton and Howard Dean orchestrate some sort of take-over or pre-emption of the popular vote, then I won't vote for any of the Dems either.  For a party that was supposedly so outraged by how Bush stole the election from Gore, they certainly have a short-term memory.  It's either that or unabashed and blatant hypocrisy.  I'm not sure I want either having any form of power in the White House.  We've already had 8 years of that shit. 

I'm amazed at how everyone is assuming that the Dems would do something like that... so far, the only voices I've heard spouting nonsense about superdelegates, appear to either be part of Clinton's team or the FAUX News team....

On Countdown lastnight, Keith Olberman put up a couple of quotes from two separate Superdelegates in which they comment about their concerns for Obama, particularly the Wright situation.  So it is more than Fox and the Clinton team.  Don't be mistaken, if the Democratic party believes that Clinton has a better chance at beating McCain then Obama, they will find a way to engineer a Clinton victory.  Democrats and Republicans share the similar ideology of "do whatever it takes to get elected." 

I'm not assuming that the Democrats would do it, but I'm not going to give them the credit, as Politicians, that they wouldn't do it. 
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 08, 2008, 05:49:17 pm
In the Parable of the Gong, the young Discordian Golden Rod learns that it's his choice whether or not to wait at red lights. He then decides that in order to demonstrate his freedom, he must run every red light. His newfound freedom leads, ironically, to a dogmatic approach to choices.

I feel sympathy for his plight. Personally, I strongly resist two-party hegemony. I agree with Ratatosk in that both parties suck and neither are capable of enacting the types of changes we'd like. In past years I've voted third party, green party, independant party, trying to rally for Anybody But These Two Con Artists. I don't have to tell you about the two man con. It's there, and it's awful.

Vex and RWHN's efforts as of late have pointed out to me that I shouldn't just discount a democrat or a republican because they're a part of the two party hegemony - just like we shouldn't just run red lights because we can. And I thank them for that.

Any candidate who succeeds in making the "rationally apathetic" masses care - signifies to me that they're doing something right. I mean, sure, it may be a great rub or hussle. Maybe this is a grand manipulation and Obama is just a wolf in sheep's clothing. But if he succeeds in making people feel like they're a part of a positive force, a force of change, a dynamic vibration, that's something I can get behind.


Worst case scenario with a silver lining:
Obama is elected and is in fact an evil robot.
All those disenfranchised voters, who care about this shit, continue to pour their energy into fixing this diseased machine.

Memetic ripples, etc.
pass it on



A very good point Cram... myself, I voted Democrat in 04 because I decided that were the Republicans my employees (Oh, yeah... they are) I would have fired the lot of them for incompetence, so I voted to replace them. I had no illusion that Kerry would be better... but that wasn't the point. Bush fucked up way too much to keep his job, IMO.

My current political view then is something like this:

Hillary Clinton: Hell No. There is no evidence that Hillary has any desire to work across party lines to get consensus. There is strong evidence that half the country (or close to it) has an epileptic fit when the name Clinton is mentioned. These two issues alone, cause me to consider her unfit to represent ALL of America as President (no matter what the current asshole in Chief thinks... the job of President is representative of everyone, not just the Base).

John McCain: Don't like his stance on the war, but it currently doesn't appear substantially different from anyone elses... except that I think he'd like to fuck with Iran, should the opportunity arise. However, I think he would close GitMo, it appears that he would reverse several of the bad decisions put in place by Bush. He appears to have serious concerns about global climate issues and isn't held captive by either the Neo-Cons or the Religious Wrong. On top of that he has a history of working across party lines, even in defiance of his own party. All of that is good.

Barack Obama: Nice guy, good speaker, some very good rough ideas and some State level cross party work (but then Bush had that). It doesn't appear that most of the country actively hates him... so thats a good score above Hilldog. He does seem more interested in peaceful resolutions rather than war, which is also potentially positive.

If it comes down to McCain and Obama, then I probably won't know who I'm voting for until November. If its Hillary vs McCain, I'm voting McCain gladly.

I agree strongly with Cram, there's no reason to 'not vote Dem/Repub' simply to be iconoclastic or to go against the machine...

We can run red lights if we wish, or we can not run red lights if we wish... but I do find it somewhat concerning when people actually think that THIS red light WILL be DIFFERENT. ;-)
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 08, 2008, 08:30:01 pm
Well forgive me for thinking that you are all a bunch of Obamafags.  Obama  and Hillary will both tell you that there are major differences between them and McCain and minor differences between eachother. 

Quote
There is no evidence that Hillary has any desire to work across party lines to get consensus.

1. She is more moderate than Obama, who is one of the most liberal senators.  2.More experience.

McCain will continue to fleece the bottom (read "the people") for the benifit of the top.

So yes, McCain = bowl of shit.
Hillary and Obama = cake.  Obama would agree.  So be good fanbois if Hillary wins and vote for her.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 08, 2008, 09:10:53 pm
Well forgive me for thinking that you are all a bunch of Obamafags.  Obama  and Hillary will both tell you that there are major differences between them and McCain and minor differences between eachother. 

Quote
There is no evidence that Hillary has any desire to work across party lines to get consensus.

1. She is more moderate than Obama, who is one of the most liberal senators.  2.More experience.

Example or GTFO ;-)

Quote
McCain will continue to fleece the bottom (read "the people") for the benifit of the top.

Example or GTFO ;-)

McCain, who voted against the Bush Tax Cuts is gonna rape the little guy? McCain whose 2000 tax proposal make a major point of cutting off loopholes for corporations, focusing the brunt of the tax relief to the 39k->80k income bracket with a decent chunk going lower, and only 4% going to higher income groups... will rape the little guy?

I'll give you that he'll continue the mess in Iraq and possibly extend the mess to Iran... but his actual experience indicates someone that has tried fighting for saner taxes and cooperation between parties.

Hillary has a wee bit of experience, with absolutely no impressive work done during that experience, at least none that I've seen.

Obama has no experience yet, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 08, 2008, 09:41:44 pm
Well forgive me for thinking that you are all a bunch of Obamafags.  Obama  and Hillary will both tell you that there are major differences between them and McCain and minor differences between eachother. 

Quote
There is no evidence that Hillary has any desire to work across party lines to get consensus.

1. She is more moderate than Obama, who is one of the most liberal senators.  2.More experience.

Example or GTFO ;-)
The National Journal found that Barack Obama had the most liberal voting record based on 107 “key votes” in the Senate in 2007.  Counting all votes he also has a more liberal voting record.

Quote
Quote
McCain will continue to fleece the bottom (read "the people") for the benifit of the top.

Example or GTFO ;-)
It is the Republican way.
Quote
Mr. McCain paid a visit to our offices last Friday, and he now says the supports extending the Bush tax rates, even admitting they helped the economy emerge from recession “Without a doubt. Without the slightest doubt,” he told us. “Absolutely.”
Wall Street Journal

But yes, McCain would be much better than Bush.  Easily apparent since Rush and Coulter seem to hate him.  But still a bowl of shit compared to the other two, in my opinion. (and probably Obama's and Hillary's opinion as well)
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 08, 2008, 09:51:18 pm
Well forgive me for thinking that you are all a bunch of Obamafags.  Obama  and Hillary will both tell you that there are major differences between them and McCain and minor differences between eachother. 

Quote
There is no evidence that Hillary has any desire to work across party lines to get consensus.

1. She is more moderate than Obama, who is one of the most liberal senators.  2.More experience.

Example or GTFO ;-)
The National Journal found that Barack Obama had the most liberal voting record based on 107 “key votes” in the Senate in 2007.  Counting all votes he also has a more liberal voting record.

I meant about Hillster having experience... Sure Obama is liberal, he's running as a Democrat.
Quote
Quote
McCain will continue to fleece the bottom (read "the people") for the benifit of the top.

Example or GTFO ;-)
It is the Republican way.
[/quote]

Well, not really... but whatever.

Quote
Mr. McCain paid a visit to our offices last Friday, and he now says the supports extending the Bush tax rates, even admitting they helped the economy emerge from recession “Without a doubt. Without the slightest doubt,” he told us. “Absolutely.”
Wall Street Journal

Sigh, yeah, this is my current problem with McCain, I can't tell if the past 10 years have been a show for the Independents, or if the current mess is a show for the Base. :(

Quote
But yes, McCain would be much better than Bush.  Easily apparent since Rush and Coulter seem to hate him.  But still a bowl of shit compared to the other two, in my opinion. (and probably Obama's and Hillary's opinion as well)

I consider them all distasteful, perhaps just in slightly different ways. To liken Obama and Hilldog to something edible and McCain to shit seems more than a bit biased to me.

I'd rate them all as pies left out way too long and probably each covered in their own special blend of bacteria, fly poop and mold... but hell, if its eat old pie or starve..

I'm going ala'mode , you want some?
;-)
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Golden Applesauce on April 08, 2008, 10:18:30 pm
Any candidate who succeeds in making the "rationally apathetic" masses care - signifies to me that they're doing something right.

Oh, I know that guy!

(http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/ja2.jpg)

Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 08, 2008, 11:25:49 pm
Well, I am biased.  I am a Liberal Democrat.  But as for Hillary's exp, well, Bill will be there with her, and he has Experience Aura which gives surrounding friendly units, +10% exp per kill, sChip, age, and did I mention Bill.   :)
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 08, 2008, 11:42:13 pm
I love the Hillary is experienced myth.  Going on holidays around the world (on the taxpayer's dime) and having chats with people =/= experience.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2008, 11:48:44 pm
Well, I am biased.  I am a Liberal Democrat.  But as for Hillary's exp, well, Bill will be there with her, and he has Experience Aura which gives surrounding friendly units, +10% exp per kill, sChip, age, and did I mention Bill.   :)
My main beef with Hillary is that she is the one who is supposed to get the nomination, according to the elites.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 12:26:59 am
Who says she is supposed to get the nomination?  All the "elites" I hear, whether they be for McCain or Obama would say otherwise.  She is not some ignorant housewife, who keeps her mouth shut when the men are talking.  She is well educated and being exposed to a governorship and presidency for so long, is experience whether you like it or not.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2008, 12:55:06 am
How do state visits count as experience?  Should we be pressing for Chelsea Clinton to become President as well?  After all, she was on these trips too, and lived in the White House.

And of course, her (debateable) 'experience' has massively informed her political choices as well, hasn't it?  After all, her voting record shows that...shows that...oh, it looks like she fucked up when it came to several major pieces of legislation, along with other 'experienced' Senators.  Fancy that.  Ain't that something.  Could it be that experience, or lack thereof, in fact tells us next to nothing about a candidate's actual abilities or skills?
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Requia ☣ on April 09, 2008, 01:54:19 am
The idea that hillary is more moderate, or Obama is more liberal only makes sense if you believe the mass hallicination of one dimensional politics the Con has sold this country.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 02:56:39 am
Chelsea wasn't a highly educated adult living in the White House.  If you live with (and screw) a paleontologist for eight years, you will probably know more about paleontology than someone who hasn't.

Also add the years he was governor as her gaining experience of the executive sort.  I am not saying it is the same experience as being president.  But if you sit and watch a mechanic work for week you will gain knowledge, whether you touch a car or not. 

The idea that hillary is more moderate, or Obama is more liberal only makes sense if you believe the mass hallicination of one dimensional politics the Con has sold this country.

So what about Obama being more liberal than McCain?  Can we say that or are we all hallucinating?  If you vote more liberal, then it could be said that you are more liberal.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Requia ☣ on April 09, 2008, 03:09:12 am
No, I'm saying that the liberal/conservative scal is ullshit, pure and simple, meant to distract people from the fact that both sides are trying to screw people one way or another.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 03:42:29 am
Well, if we're going to get screwed we can at least choose the more comfortable position.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 09, 2008, 03:53:16 am
Chelsea wasn't a highly educated adult living in the White House.  If you live with (and screw) a paleontologist for eight years, you will probably know more about paleontology than someone who hasn't.

Also add the years he was governor as her gaining experience of the executive sort.  I am not saying it is the same experience as being president.  But if you sit and watch a mechanic work for week you will gain knowledge, whether you touch a car or not. 


I would not want the wife of a heart surgeon performing surgery... even if they had just celebrated their golden anniversary.

But, thats just me. ;-)

I think Hillary would be just as skilled at screwing things up as Obama and McCain
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2008, 04:38:48 am
i don't think "experience" counts as much as motive, anyway. as president, there is absolutely no shortage of expertise at your disposal in the form of advisers and ex-officials of all varieties. but no amount of expertise, either your own or your inner circle's, can stop you from fucking things up. between dick cheney and donald rumsfield, there's a century of solid experience. and look where that got us. obama at least has the balls to admit when he doesn't know something. and he will listen to all opinions -- even (and especially) those he is inclined to disagree with. i don't see hillary demonstrating that kind of maturity.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 06:26:26 am
Chelsea wasn't a highly educated adult living in the White House.  If you live with (and screw) a paleontologist for eight years, you will probably know more about paleontology than someone who hasn't.

Also add the years he was governor as her gaining experience of the executive sort.  I am not saying it is the same experience as being president.  But if you sit and watch a mechanic work for week you will gain knowledge, whether you touch a car or not. 


I would not want the wife of a heart surgeon performing surgery... even if they had just celebrated their golden anniversary.

But, thats just me. ;-)

I think Hillary would be just as skilled at screwing things up as Obama and McCain

Your missing my point.  Would you rather have the wife of a heart surgeon who had a medical degree of some sort, or some jackass off the street?
The point is, her time in the white house, and the governor's mansion, would no doubt give her some experience on the subject.  Again, not as much as being gov or prez, but some nevertheless.  The amount we can argue about, but having a law degree and working on things like schip pretty much guarantee that she gained some valuable experience politically while in these positions.  To deny that is preposterous.

obama at least has the balls to admit when he doesn't know something. and he will listen to all opinions -- even (and especially) those he is inclined to disagree with. i don't see hillary demonstrating that kind of maturity.

Well, you could be right there.  But I haven't seen anything to support that.

As for the exp around Bush fucking shit up...Maybe you forgot, they have been very successful in doing what they wanted to do.  Their experience helped them plenty I am sure.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2008, 01:42:16 pm
And what will she do with that 'experience'?  Thats the point you seem to be missing.  Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?  As Vex said, Bush's administration team had tons of experience, and Bush himself was both a governor and a son of a President/VP/Chief of the CIA.  Fat lot of good that's done anyone, right?

So lets assume, for the sake of argument, she is experienced (though I still have my very clear doubts over that).  OK, what does that translate into?  Will she propose the same sort of legislation she has over the past 8 years, only more experienced?  Well, that's the Iranian and Iraqi people fucked, for starters.  Will she pass legislation like the PATRIOT Act (which was based on legislation from her husbands own term as President) more efficiently?  Will she ride roughshod over the institutional checks and balances meant to limit the power of the President more effectively?

Also, interestingly and totally off topic, I read McCain was advocating nuclear stockpile reductions as part of his foreign policy.  That's likely a good move, and does offset some of his hawkishness over Iraq.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 09, 2008, 02:16:50 pm
Chelsea wasn't a highly educated adult living in the White House.  If you live with (and screw) a paleontologist for eight years, you will probably know more about paleontology than someone who hasn't.

Also add the years he was governor as her gaining experience of the executive sort.  I am not saying it is the same experience as being president.  But if you sit and watch a mechanic work for week you will gain knowledge, whether you touch a car or not. 

Hey, I watched CSPAN once for 8 hours straight.  I'm gonna run for Congress!
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2008, 04:12:37 pm
If Hillary's 16+ years of "executive and legislative experience" qualifies her to be president, then surely my 26 years of getting fucked by people with tons of experience qualifies me to call bullshit.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 09:17:58 pm
That is not the only experience she has.

The experience of the Bush administration was very effective.  It just wasn't used for our benefit.

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

Quote
As Vex said, Bush's administration team had tons of experience, and Bush himself was both a governor and a son of a President/VP/Chief of the CIA.  Fat lot of good that's done anyone, right?

The experience of the Bush administration was very effective.  They have done and got away with just about everything they set out to do.  It just so happens that what they wanted to do, sucked for the majority of people.  Tax cuts for the rich, Iraq, death tax, etc =/= healthcare, a sensible withdrawal from Iraq, etc.

Quote
So lets assume, for the sake of argument, she is experienced (though I still have my very clear doubts over that).  OK, what does that translate into?  Will she propose the same sort of legislation she has over the past 8 years, only more experienced?  Well, that's the Iranian and Iraqi people fucked, for starters.  Will she pass legislation like the PATRIOT Act (which was based on legislation from her husbands own term as President) more efficiently?  Will she ride roughshod over the institutional checks and balances meant to limit the power of the President more effectively?

Yes, blame Clinton for all the ills that occurred after he left office.  It makes perfect sense.  But those towers were standing when he left, and gas was around $1.30.  He met weekly about the threat of Bin Laden.  Bush ignored it.  Bin Laden is still a threat.

Quote
Also, interestingly and totally off topic, I read McCain was advocating nuclear stockpile reductions as part of his foreign policy.  That's likely a good move, and does offset some of his hawkishness over Iraq.

Well, McCain is not the worst person in the world, by all means.  But regardless of what he says, I am still convinced that he will be bad for the environment, bad for social programs like social security, education, and healthcare, bad for foreign policy, bad for the economy (which he admits he is completely ignorant about), bad for the lower and middle class.
Good for big business, good for the top 10-20%.

But he would probably be 10X better than Bush.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2008, 09:26:02 pm
Yes, blame Clinton for all the ills that occurred after he left office.  It makes perfect sense.  But those towers were standing when he left, and gas was around $1.30.  He met weekly about the threat of Bin Laden.  Bush ignored it.  Bin Laden is still a threat.

OK, now you are pissing me off.

You are putting words in my mouth.  Elements of the PATRIOT Act were based on earlier anti-terrorism legislation from Clinton.  HEY, GUESS WHAT?  I STUDY TERRORISM, FUCKO!  I MAY JUST SPEND ALL DAY READING LEGISLATION AND PAPERS ON COMBATING IT, AND SO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Does that excuse Bush's fuckups?  No.  Bush has done more for Al-Qaeda's survival prospects than any other American leader.  But that doesn't exclude Clinton's own power grabbing assholishness either and I would have thought someone smart enough to hang around on this site would have realized criticizing one side doesn't mean batting for the other.

Maybe you should try capitolgrilling.com, its probably more your speed.  Dick.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 09, 2008, 09:29:21 pm

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

Examples please.  Specific examples. 
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2008, 09:32:07 pm

Her debateable experience hasn't led to her proposing better policies, or backing better pieces of legislation now, has it?
 

Of course it has.  Where have you been?

Examples please.  Specific examples. 

THE KYL-LIEBERMAN AMMENDMENT IS A GREAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION!  UNLESS YOU'RE IRANIAN, HUH HUH HUH!
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Dido on April 09, 2008, 09:59:32 pm
Well, I am biased.  I am a Liberal Democrat.  But as for Hillary's exp, well, Bill will be there with her, and he has Experience Aura which gives surrounding friendly units, +10% exp per kill, sChip, age, and did I mention Bill.   :)

So you are basically supporting Hillary because she is the back door for Bill who cannot be reelected himself?
This is the best argument ever against the feminists-have-to-support-Hillary-reasoning.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 09, 2008, 10:20:04 pm

Well, McCain is not the worst person in the world, by all means.  But regardless of what he says, I am still convinced that he will be bad for the environment,

Have you researched this much? Mccain has been pretty decent on the environment... not Al Gore level dogmatic or anything, but reasonable. He's pushed hard to protect ANWAR (even with the oil crunch) and well:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/02/13/the_turning_point_on_global_warming/ (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/02/13/the_turning_point_on_global_warming/)

Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 09, 2008, 11:22:54 pm
I say drill in ANWAR, fuck the caribou.  I base my opinion, that he will be bad for the environment, on the recent history of the Republican party (like 1980-present).

But anyway, we could argue about who's proposals/positions are better till the cows come home.  We can also beat up on Hillary till the cows come home.  It is the cool thing to do, and everyone's doing it, so there are plenty of examples to choose from.  Sorry I'm not on the bandwagon.

This is all about political opinions, and mine is that McCain is to shit, as Clinton/Obama is to cake.  It is my opinion.  Maybe steak/burger would be a more acceptable metaphor for you.

But if you like Obama based on more than just the "hope and change' bs, or that he is young/black/handsome/etc, and you base it on the issues, then voting for McCain if Hillary wins the nomination would be pretty silly.

Another thing, if you wait until November to decide who to vote for, you are probably pretty stupid as well, and should just stay home.  Something like 2% of voters, vote for whoever is on the left side of the ballot.  I would bet that the majority of those tards spout off the same undecided bs, just because they are too lazy and ignorant to understand the issues and make up their mind.  Yes, I'm an asshole.  I know.

Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 09, 2008, 11:42:16 pm
voting for mccain if hillary wins is stupid.

if hillary steals the nomination, however, that does not count as "winning."

in that case, voting for mccain has nothing to do with the issues, it has to do with the principal of despising the democratic party for ignoring the voice of the voters. i, like millions of other democrats, never bothered to find out about the 'superdelegates' until they became an issue this year. and just because the rules are written such that those people can vote against the popular vote if they want to doesn't mean the rules are right.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 10, 2008, 12:49:22 am
Well, why don't you just vote for Nader or stay home, since Bush stole the 2000 and 04'  elections and we are blaming entire parties for things.
They probably wont, but if they do, it wouldn't be stealing anyway.  I can see where you are coming from, but it just doesn't hold up.  Why vote against your interests because some elected superdelegates decide that Hillary has the better chance of winning (or whatever they base their decisions on)?
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: LMNO on April 10, 2008, 02:11:44 pm
From what I can tell, a large part of Europe is in love with Obama. 

Considering that the US needs to get back to using 'soft power', an Obama presidency would be a good step in that direction.

Hell, he might even be able to build a real coilition.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 10, 2008, 02:24:28 pm
Well, why don't you just vote for Nader or stay home, since Bush stole the 2000 and 04'  elections and we are blaming entire parties for things.
They probably wont, but if they do, it wouldn't be stealing anyway.  I can see where you are coming from, but it just doesn't hold up.  Why vote against your interests because some elected superdelegates decide that Hillary has the better chance of winning (or whatever they base their decisions on)?


1)  Bush didn't steal 04.  Kerry was a lifeless idiot and seemingly did everything he could do to lose it.  I'd say the same thing about Gore in 2000 though the shenannigans in Florida certainly did help Bush. 

2)  You're right, it isn't stealing if the Superdelegates override the popular vote.  However it will be rank hypocrisy on the part of Hillary Clinton, who just last night at her Elton John concert/fundraiser again burped out her talking points about making sure votes in Michigan and Florida counted.  Her philosophy being they shouldn't be disenfranchised.  But isn't overriding the popular vote disenfranchising?  Well yes it is. 

Hillary Clinton wears her dishonesty and disingenuousness on her sleeve.  If Hillary does somehow get the nomination, perhaps voting for McCain isn't the answer.  But I know personally I don't think I'd be able to check the box next to her name.  I don't feel like rewarding that kind of hypocrisy with the power of the Presidency. 
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 10, 2008, 09:04:08 pm
I just wouldn't blame her for it.  She is in it to win it, and if you have a chance of winning, why give in to everyone telling you to give up?  She does not have control over all the superdelegates.  Of course, from my understanding, there would be much wheeling and dealing if it boiled down to that.  Especially if nobody got 2024 after the first vote.  But popular vote isn't what is counted, ie Gore.   

They require 2024 delegates, and if they don't get them, it is a virtual tie, broken by the superdelegates.  Of course, the media, and just about everyone else, doesn't see it that way.  So maybe, its just me.

Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 10, 2008, 09:11:35 pm
Thank you, yes I know how many delegates are required to win the nomination.  But the Pledged Delegates are chosen according to how the primary and caucus votes go in each state.  The Democrats split the pledged delegates according to what percentage of the popular vote is won in each state.  Therefore, at the end of the primary season, the candidate with  the most pledged delegates is also going to have the popular vote because of that system.  So, yes, at the end Obama may not have the 2024, but if he still has the 150 delegate lead that will correspond to a considerable lead in the popular vote. 

So, the Superdelegates, if they cast their lot with whoever is on the short end of the stick, will be overriding the will of the people, because they will be going against the popular sentiment, i.e. the popular vote.  Technically, yes, they CAN do it.  But is it right for them to snub their nose at the everyday Democrat voters, the majority of which are saying they want Obama, not Hillary? 

And I will blame Hillary because it is her campaign who keeps talking about the Superdelegates considering who is more electable.  They are driving this possibility, and they are driving it hard. 
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 10, 2008, 09:26:17 pm
She wouldn't have to say anything and it would still come down to the superdelegates.  It seems everyone is mad at her for not dropping out.  And technically, the superdelegates should do what they feel is right, regardless of popular vote.  Personally I would rather see a pure popular vote, all cast (except for early voting) and counted at the same time.  But thats not the way it is, so I support following the rules as they were set up before this game started.  I don't think it is fair to say, "no, no, we don't like that rule now that it has come into play, let's not use it." 
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2008, 09:36:57 pm
The reason the rules are now in question is because so many Democrats never knew that this is how the rules were written to begin with. Sure, it's their own fault for not educating themselves, but the point still stands. Most Democrats, myself among them, do not see why there should be an oversight body at all -- if there is a "virtual tie," a difference of even one popular vote should decide it, period.

As for Hillary, she isn't just asking the Superdelegates to buck the popular vote. She is also actively fishing for pledged delegates to change their vote -- people who were selected to vote for Obama, who can technically vote for Clinton instead. This is disenfranchisement of the worst possible order -- not only is it disregard for the popular vote, but a direct assault on it. It also completely negates her hypocritical demands not to "disenfranchise" Florida and Michigan voters.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: AFK on April 10, 2008, 09:38:38 pm
to Rzasthole:
No, but it removes the process from the people, when all is said and done, their will is going to be ignored by those in power, if they go down that path.  How Democratic is that for the Democrat party?  It's another example of The Machine(tm) and The System(tm) putting the screws to the little guy.  Should we really want that kind of behavior encouraged AND rewarded?  
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 10, 2008, 10:41:04 pm
I am all for reforming our election process.  I just don't think we should do it in the middle of an election.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 10, 2008, 10:47:59 pm
reforming the election process isn't going to happen until some titwank at the top of the foodchain is forced to support changing it. letting the system override voters in favor of clinton isn't going to produce much impetus to get that done unless the dems lose in a big way this year.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 11, 2008, 03:38:55 am
Warning: Unsolicited opinion follows

As a Discordian, I support Hilary because she has a dedicated fan base and an equally dedicated base of people who hate her guts. People seem to hate her more than they hated Bill. This outrageous division of opinion would create internal discord on the same level as the Bush administration during the 2004 election, before she even made it into office.
(Seriously, ask a random selection of people what they think about Hilary Clinton. You will very quickly find people whose eyes glow red and froth at the mouth whenever her name is mentioned; it's actually kind of funny.)

As a United Statesian, I support Obama because another 4 to 8 years of half the country hating the president would be detrimental to pretty much any progress.

In other words, it's not Hilary's fault.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 11, 2008, 06:45:47 am
Half of the country is going to hate whoever.  Bill had like a 68?% approval rating when he left?  Of course half the country still hates the Clinton's.  Because everyone says that.
And Hillary would probably bring more progress than Obama.  But you can think that if it helps.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 11, 2008, 08:13:21 am
Half of the country is going to hate whoever.  Bill had like a 68?% approval rating when he left?  Of course half the country still hates the Clinton's.  Because everyone says that.
And Hillary would probably bring more progress than Obama.  But you can think that if it helps.

As an individual, perhaps. But with a couple million yahoos screaming, "FUCK YOU, HILLARY!" in a supposedly democratic society, not much is going to get done.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 11, 2008, 08:49:01 am
Bush got plenty done with "a couple million yahoos screaming, "FUCK YOU"
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 11, 2008, 11:19:05 am
Yeah, but they didn't have control of Congress, or were part of his own party.

As I recall, the Republican legislature gave two fingers to the Dems repeatedly and slavishly went along with whatever Bush did.  There is no real comparison, because the two million people going "fuck Bush" all posted on Democratic Underground and Daily Kos who, surprisingly, have no constitutional say in the running of the country beyond voting.  And as we recently found out, leading Democrats were actually getting very rich off Bush's policies (the Democratic Party has more money invested in military and security companies than the Republicans, on average) and that leading Democrats also knew about many of Bush's policies, including the illegal ones, well before the public was ever informed.  There is certainly a high level of complicity in Bush's wrongs and theirs, as an aside.

A Democratic Party where tensions are already running high between the Obama and Clinton camps is another thing entirely.  Outspoken and influential Hillary supporters online are being courted and encouraged by liberal Republicans to continue their fight with Obama, and often compare his followers to Ron Paul's in order to try and empathize with Hillary's supporters.  Equally, some Obama supporters have made it clear that if Hillary does win, they will vote for McCain.

Either way, whoever does win will face a hostile faction of their own party who may support the Republicans in hope that McCain does only serve 4 years, using the intervening time to crush resistance within their party to their own nomination for 2012.  Even assuming Obama or Clinton did become President, which seems increasingly unlikely (whispers of McCain adding Condi as VP are being floated, and seem popular.  More popular than Obama/Clinon or Clinton/Obama at least), there is still the chance that one of those would encourage bi-partisan cooperation in order to railroad and limit the power of the President, while they continue to build their own power base.  Clinton could probably do this more on foreign affairs and the military, Obama on others, but the option is open to both.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cainad (dec.) on April 12, 2008, 06:30:58 am
What Cain said. Also, cocks.



You know what, I'm gonna call this one right now:

McCain (ZOMG son of Cain?!) wins, Dems hilariously forced into years of internal bickering, and the GOP gets to plant its fat, white bottom on the seat of power yet again.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: guest7654 on April 13, 2008, 10:41:17 pm
I give McCain 65% odds.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 13, 2008, 10:50:25 pm
too generous. mccain doesn't have the ability to polarize the electorate like a more conservative person would. republicans will vote for him, but not because they like him. on the other hand (assuming he is the nominee), obama will have the support of the same democrats who got a 50% vote for Gore and Kerry, plus millions of other people who would normally be sitting this election out. if it goes to the general election, i'll actually be surprised if obama doesn't win -- barring some terrible gaffe or new information, which will probably happen, because that's what always happens when America gets too close to doing something right for a change. so mathematically, it's obama. but factor in Eris, and yeah, it'll be McCain.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 14, 2008, 12:25:43 am
I give McCain 65% odds.

Naw.  He'll have a fit or two of retard rage, and he'll be done.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Roo on April 14, 2008, 12:26:24 am
I give McCain 65% odds.

Not 48%?

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks)
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 14, 2008, 12:59:01 pm
His lead will be very small, especially against Obama.  Both can fight for the independent voters, but will be offset by the Religious Right/disgruntled Hillary supporters, making it rather hard to call.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2008, 03:55:42 am
His lead will be very small, especially against Obama.  Both can fight for the independent voters, but will be offset by the Religious Right/disgruntled Hillary supporters, making it rather hard to call.

Yeah, some ditz on GLP was whining that if Hillary wasn't given the "respect" of getting first refusal of the VP slot, that her followers shouldn't vote.

American Democracy:  The idea that the common folk know what's best for them, and deserve to get it good and hard.

TGRR,
Approves of this, of course.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Cain on April 15, 2008, 04:15:12 am
Its a common feeling, at least among the idiots of the internet.  Many people involved the DailyKos walkout also said if Obama won they would not vote in the election for him, because of his supporters.

And naturally, the McCain supporters are loving this, and have been make subtle statements to the Clinton crowd, implying that they went through the same thing with Ron Paul, and playing it sympathetic.  Obvious ploy is obvious, but the sentiments seem to be spreading.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2008, 04:20:13 am
Its a common feeling, at least among the idiots of the internet.  Many people involved the DailyKos walkout also said if Obama won they would not vote in the election for him, because of his supporters.

And naturally, the McCain supporters are loving this, and have been make subtle statements to the Clinton crowd, implying that they went through the same thing with Ron Paul, and playing it sympathetic.  Obvious ploy is obvious, but the sentiments seem to be spreading.

I love this decade.   :lulz:
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 15, 2008, 04:26:23 am
fucking ridiculous. it's obvious to me that if anyone has any moral justification (if you believe in such a thing) for purposely voting against the winner of the primary, it's whoever is supporting a candidate that wins by every imaginable measure and still loses the nomination because of party insiders.

if your person loses after trying to steal the nomination through bullshit tactics, and you get pissed off about it enough to vote against the person who won by real votes, then you're a cock sprocket and that's all there is to it.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2008, 04:30:46 am
fucking ridiculous. it's obvious to me that if anyone has any moral justification (if you believe in such a thing) for purposely voting against the winner of the primary, it's whoever is supporting a candidate that wins by every imaginable measure and still loses the nomination because of party insiders.

if your person loses after trying to steal the nomination through bullshit tactics, and you get pissed off about it enough to vote against the person who won by real votes, then you're a cock sprocket and that's all there is to it.

Um.

Welcome to Fat City.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on April 15, 2008, 04:43:39 am
Is the Horrible Troof the only truly immutable thing in the universe?
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 15, 2008, 04:52:11 am
Is the Horrible Troof the only truly immutable thing in the universe?

Yes.  It is also the only thing worth having, and the one thing that's damn near impossible to get.
Title: Re: mainstream rant #36: The Gen X Nuclear Option
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on April 15, 2008, 04:59:26 pm
Is the Horrible Troof the only truly immutable thing in the universe?

Yes.  It is also the only thing worth having, and the one thing that's damn near impossible to get.

Preach It Brother!