Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Or Kill Me => Topic started by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 03:17:57 pm

Title: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 03:17:57 pm
This is an excerpt from Liber AAA The Art of Anarchic Artha (A look through the void via Alan Watts) written by the OOO
and you may find it here in full: http://www.uncarved.org/OOO/watts.html (http://www.uncarved.org/OOO/watts.html)

There is one notable Western philosopher, however, who seems to be aiming at something similar. Watts viewed the writings of Wittgenstein as a form of jnana-yoga, intellectual bending and stretching which makes the mind supple and ready to realise profoundly its identity with It. As he was led to point out, many of the questions that seem so deeply meaningful, such as "Why are we here?" and "What is Existence?" are strictly speaking meaningless; somehow we get ourselves tied in mental knots whereby this isn't understood or felt at all. (6)

Wittgenstein started out using the linguistic logic first developed by Frege and Russell, but in trying to explore the construction of language, ended up transcending philosophy itself in the process. His jnana-yoga starts with using Russellian analysis to show how grammatical form can conceal the logical form of a sentence. This analysis acts extremely corrosively to get rid of self-contradiction and hidden assumptions by applying self-evident rules of logic to analyse grammatical constructions and break them into their most basic component parts. Complex sentences very often feature a grammatical "clouding over" of logic as they compress assumptions into too little a space ("Try me for size, babe" would be a good example of a very complex construction hiding out in a simple sentence-what could it exactly mean?). This is where metaphysical problems tend to creep into arguments-they refer to things that don't exist, but we become grammatically deluded by the seemingly convincing layout of language that the questions raised actually mean something in the first place. And as language gains its meaning socially, we can already see a similarity (concerning ego) with eastern philosophies. Wittgenstein was originally involved with logical 'atomism', which states that complex sentences are derived by linkages of 'atomic sentences'. These are in turn built out of atomic facts, which are the basic, 'given' units of language that cannot be analysed further (e.g. saying 'apple' to refer to, well, an apple). This already brings to mind a link with zen-style mysticism via Korzybski, who liked to point out that the experience of 'water' is not a word-you can't drink the word 'water'.

The jnana-yoga reaches another level when we start to work out how atomic facts are linked with atomic sentences in order to be logically linked together into complex sentences. In order to make a proposition that links an atomic fact with an atomic sentence, you already have to think of an atomic sentence that goeswith it. This is because they're atomic, not complex facts. (All we can do here is recommend that the reader checks out some Wittgenstein, sorry). Any attempt to describe the linkage will be itself a logical, and therefore complex, statement, capable of being analysed back to its atomic components. Wittgenstein used peculiarly suggestive language to suggest how the linkage is actually made-he called it 'showing'. An ironic slant on the old Chinese saying "a showing is worth a thousand words"! We're also reminded of zen's insistence on 'direct showing' of reality. We 'picture' (not mentally, but logically) due to the activity linking the atomic fact with its sentence, . . . but . . . something's gone wrong here . . . what about the theory of talking about all this in the first place? It's not logical, it's not atomic, it's not even tautological. It must therefore be meaningless, complete nonsense. The whole of Wittgenstein's philosophy is a giant koan used to tease the mind out of linear, logical thinking, and "that whereof one cannot speak one must consign to silence." The parallel with mysticism is obvious.

There are also implications for the place of mystical writing in the overall scheme of things. Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logicophilosophicus (which ends with That Sentence About Silence) states that the limits of thought are the limits of what can be said. Again, another feel of what "stopping thought" could imply. Philosophies can only analyse the use of grammar, grammar being how language use derives its sense and nonsense. This means that Wittgenstein required that philosophers stop lapsing into language use connected with non-philosophical thought. When analysed using Russellian logic, many apparently philosophical writings turn out to have chunks of language use that are instead connected with language "games" such as condemnation, commendation, and so on. This led Wittgenstein to state that his aim was to bring language back to its "everyday use", i.e. its proper home. Language can only truly be analysed as it is actually used. The use of course depends on the world view of the user, which is a given, non-analysable set of assumptions that are left after the analysis has reached the atomic level. A world view is the "logical space" inhabited by language, and is a framework of true/false constructive activity. It can only be 'pictured' through the use of language. World view cannot be viewed in a broader concept, as that broader concept would itself form a world view. In other words, to assume there is an essence of language is meaningless and pointless. The same words can be used in entirely different languages. This is perhaps what gives rise to that feeling that some people who are appearing to talk sense are talking drivel, and vice versa. This is very important when trying to deal with eastern philosophies, as people can become easy prey to the next passing guru who will sell another version of institutionality with nice eastern trappings. As Wittgenstein said, "DON'T LOOK FOR THE MEANING, LOOK FOR THE USE".

To press the point one more time, let us look at music again. Although all Western music uses a 12 tone scale, nobody (from the West) would ever dream of confusing Schoenberg with Wagner. The very essence of what their music is about, what it stands for, is utterly different. It is exactly this way with words. Words are empty (as John Cage enjoyed over the course of several records and a book).

==========

Don't actually have ANY time to comment right now, but thought this was relevant towards several recent conversations I've had on here, and very interesting.  I'll add my own thoughts on the content later.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 03:44:07 pm
You are aware that this is the rant forum, not the cut and paste forum, right?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 04:52:17 pm
the rant is COMING dick... I'm at work.   Posted this first... will rant about it later.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 05:03:41 pm
the rant is COMING dick... I'm at work.   Posted this first... will rant about it later.

YUOR DOIN IT WRONG.

Now I gotta put on my admin hat, just for a second.

Daruko, you're violating fair use.  Please post a link, and then less than 5% of the article, or demonstrate that it is in the public domain.

Getting ECH and Faust in trouble with The Man is poor form.

Now I can take my admin hat off again, and happy-slap you some more.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Cain on April 09, 2008, 05:05:42 pm
Given the length of the article, I would say what was about 5% myself.  Although I suspect it was public domain anyway.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 09, 2008, 05:07:05 pm
the rant is COMING dick... I'm at work.   Posted this first... will rant about it later.

YUOR DOIN IT WRONG.

Now I gotta put on my admin hat, just for a second.

Daruko, you're violating fair use.  Please post a link, and then less than 5% of the article, or demonstrate that it is in the public domain.

Getting ECH and Faust in trouble with The Man is poor form.

Now I can take my admin hat off again, and happy-slap you some more.


You, sir, don't fight fair.


 :lulz:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 05:09:27 pm
the rant is COMING dick... I'm at work.   Posted this first... will rant about it later.

YUOR DOIN IT WRONG.

Now I gotta put on my admin hat, just for a second.

Daruko, you're violating fair use.  Please post a link, and then less than 5% of the article, or demonstrate that it is in the public domain.

Getting ECH and Faust in trouble with The Man is poor form.

Now I can take my admin hat off again, and happy-slap you some more.


You, sir, don't fight fair.


 :lulz:

That wasn't fighting.  That was called "making sure ECH and Faust don't get fucked in the ass".

Don't hate me just because I can completely shift mental gears in the middle of a noob-culling.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 05:26:17 pm
Okay, well everything you just said wasn't applicable Roger, so go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 05:28:43 pm
Okay, well everything you just said wasn't applicable Roger, so go fuck yourself.

How is it not applicable?  You have not posted whether or not this article is in the public domain.

Are you having trouble with the concept?  Should I type slower?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 05:30:24 pm
Oh, you're too stupid to see for yourself.
Yes Roger, it's public domain.  That's a COLD HARD FACT.    :lulz:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 09, 2008, 05:31:52 pm
Oh, you're too stupid to see for yourself.
Yes Roger, it's public domain.  That's a COLD HARD FACT.    :lulz:

[citation needed]
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 05:35:45 pm
Oh, you're too stupid to see for yourself.
Yes Roger, it's public domain.  That's a COLD HARD FACT.    :lulz:

[citation needed]

He won't post one.  I wonder why that is?

Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 05:39:44 pm
I just read some of that.

 :x 

TGRR,
Wants that ten minutes back.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: AFK on April 09, 2008, 05:56:54 pm
Oh, it's one of these "prove it's not..." guys.   :roll:

Here's a forum that might be more your speed.  www.politicalcrossfire.com

Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:03:58 pm
Oh, it's one of these "prove it's not..." guys.   :roll:

Here's a forum that might be more your speed.  www.politicalcrossfire.com



He's pretty dumb.  Look what he just did to himself in his other thread.

That's what happens when drunks try to look educated.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:04:37 pm
oh it's one of THOSE guys.

oh you think THAT way.

oh i have YOU figured out now.

You're one of THEM.

Not one of US.

wow....

And? 

Oh, wait.  Because this is Discordianism, we have to accept EVERYONE, right?

HAW HAW!  WRONG AGAIN!
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 09, 2008, 06:06:25 pm
oh it's one of THOSE guys.

oh you think THAT way.

oh i have YOU figured out now.

You're one of THEM.

Not one of US.

wow....



Is this some sort of sociological experiment?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 06:07:55 pm
It almost seems as if it's becoming one.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:09:08 pm
oh it's one of THOSE guys.

oh you think THAT way.

oh i have YOU figured out now.

You're one of THEM.

Not one of US.

wow....



Is this some sort of sociological experiment?

AND WE'RE DOING JUST WHAT HE EXPECTED US TO DO ROFL ROFL
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Payne on April 09, 2008, 06:09:33 pm
Are you known and noted for outlandishness?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:09:45 pm
It almost seems as if it's becoming one.

Yep.  I bet you think you're on the outside of the cage, right?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:09:55 pm
Are you known and noted for outlandishness?

 :lulz:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: AFK on April 09, 2008, 06:15:29 pm
Are you known and noted for outlandishness?

I believe the nomination form for the Ambassador Klok Kaos Hall of Fame is being drawn up as we speak. 
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 06:19:33 pm
Are you known and noted for outlandishness?

I believe the nomination form for the Ambassador Klok Kaos Hall of Fame is being drawn up as we speak. 

I will in fact create a subforum, if necessary.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Pope Shiny Beads on April 09, 2008, 07:10:56 pm
Proof of it being public domain or not is a simple test, who wrote it and have they been dead for a certain amount of time.  A long freaking time, most likely this is not the case.  If the author put it into the public domain specifically (and it has to say so on it) it ain't PD until something like 70 years after the creators death.  This isn't public domain.  The Principia Discordia is public domain it says so right on it (All Rites Reversed)
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 08:23:21 pm
okay guys
i'm inside the cage so i can't hear you.

sorry

i'm just programmed to be outlandish
and um.... yeah, i anticipated your every move

mirror mirror on the wall, whose the most pretentious of all?
it's daruko!

This is starting to be just a bit depressing.  It's like watching a fat kid make fun of himself before anyone else has a chance to.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 09:41:36 pm
okay guys
i'm inside the cage so i can't hear you.

sorry

i'm just programmed to be outlandish
and um.... yeah, i anticipated your every move

mirror mirror on the wall, whose the most pretentious of all?
it's daruko!

This is starting to be just a bit depressing.  It's like watching a fat kid make fun of himself before anyone else has a chance to.

Have to disagree with you, Rev.  I'm still laughing.  This is one of the better inadvertant trolls since the Lamanite and AKK.

In fact, I think there should be a subforum with copies of all the threads from AKK, the Lamanite, I Am Not a Rhombus, this dumb prick, etc.  For the lulz.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 09:43:02 pm
okay guys
i'm inside the cage so i can't hear you.

sorry

i'm just programmed to be outlandish
and um.... yeah, i anticipated your every move

mirror mirror on the wall, whose the most pretentious of all?
it's daruko!

This is starting to be just a bit depressing.  It's like watching a fat kid make fun of himself before anyone else has a chance to.

Have to disagree with you, Rev.  I'm still laughing.  This is one of the better inadvertant trolls since the Lamanite and AKK.

In fact, I think there should be a subforum with copies of all the threads from AKK, the Lamanite, I Am Not a Rhombus, this dumb prick, etc.  For the lulz.

That can be arranged.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 09:46:36 pm
Not strange at all, you just have an undeveloped humor gland.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 09:46:42 pm
okay guys
i'm inside the cage so i can't hear you.

sorry

i'm just programmed to be outlandish
and um.... yeah, i anticipated your every move

mirror mirror on the wall, whose the most pretentious of all?
it's daruko!

This is starting to be just a bit depressing.  It's like watching a fat kid make fun of himself before anyone else has a chance to.

What's strange is that you think that sort of thing is funny.
How did you know I'm a dumb prick?

I didn't call you a dumb prick.  Dr Loki did.

Please try to keep up.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 09:50:22 pm
Is it like this?   

You see the face I'm making with my words?

Heahahahah
Is that funny enough?

they like me mom, they really like me
no they're laughing see?

what the fuck are you doing?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Dr. Paes on April 09, 2008, 09:50:53 pm
Is it like this?   

You see the face I'm making with my words?

Heahahahah
Is that funny enough?

they like me mom, they really like me
no they're laughing see?

what the fuck are you doing?

Mental Breakdown ITT
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 09:52:04 pm
Is it like this?   

You see the face I'm making with my words?

Heahahahah
Is that funny enough?

they like me mom, they really like me
no they're laughing see?

what the fuck are you doing?

He's drunk again, apparently.  He drank himself into a cabbage-like stupor the other night, and that gibberish is all you got out of him.

Then he can't figure out why he isn't viewed as a font of wisdom today.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 09:57:42 pm
Is it like this?   

You see the face I'm making with my words?

Heahahahah
Is that funny enough?

they like me mom, they really like me
no they're laughing see?

what the fuck are you doing?

He's drunk again, apparently.  He drank himself into a cabbage-like stupor the other night, and that gibberish is all you got out of him.

Then he can't figure out why he isn't viewed as a font of wisdom today.

Nope.  This time I'm sober.  Just keepin up the awkwardness... basically any vibe that makes you feel awkward with me.  But now that I pointed it out, it's like not gonna work that way.

Um, I don't feel awkward.  I'm laughing at you.  Like this --->  :lulz:

You've basically blown it, and you'll go away soon...so you don't matter.  You're a momentary diversion, and that's all you'll ever count for.

But the words man?
the words?
It's like what tim leary was talking about you know?
the REAL discordians.

Gee, could you teach me to be a REALLY REAL Discordian, Mister?   :lulz:

Idiot.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Requia ☣ on April 09, 2008, 10:00:53 pm
Proof of it being public domain or not is a simple test, who wrote it and have they been dead for a certain amount of time.  A long freaking time, most likely this is not the case.  If the author put it into the public domain specifically (and it has to say so on it) it ain't PD until something like 70 years after the creators death.  This isn't public domain.  The Principia Discordia is public domain it says so right on it (All Rites Reversed)

Kopyleft and public domain are not the same thing.


Also, Daruko, you fail.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Dr. Paes on April 09, 2008, 10:03:40 pm

i'm just programmed to be outlandish


Quote from: Ambassador KAOS
I think I'm in love
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:06:02 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

HAW HAW!

Here we go!  You guys KNEW it would only be a matter of time before shithead here announced that he did all this on purpose, and we acted exactly like you expected.

It's old.  It's been done.

And you don't matter.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 10:06:36 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

Wow, guys, spouting inane gibberish is so coool.  He really DOES win, just cuz he said.

Dude, in all seriousness, I hope that you get eaten by sharks.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:13:16 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

Wow, guys, spouting inane gibberish is so coool.  He really DOES win, just cuz he said.

Dude, in all seriousness, I hope that you get eaten by sharks.

BOW BEFORE HIS DADAIST NATURE.

Ung.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 10:15:41 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

Wow, guys, spouting inane gibberish is so coool.  He really DOES win, just cuz he said.

Dude, in all seriousness, I hope that you get eaten by sharks.

BOW BEFORE HIS DADAIST NATURE.

Ung.
BIG FUCKING SHARKS
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Doktor_Fistula/shark.jpg)
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:17:42 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

Wow, guys, spouting inane gibberish is so coool.  He really DOES win, just cuz he said.

Dude, in all seriousness, I hope that you get eaten by sharks.

BOW BEFORE HIS DADAIST NATURE.

Ung.
BIG FUCKING SHARKS
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Doktor_Fistula/shark.jpg)

REALLY, REALLY BIG FUCKING SHARKS.

(http://800lbgorilla.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/shark-attack1.jpg)
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Doktor Loki on April 09, 2008, 10:18:23 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

HAW HAW!

Here we go!  You guys KNEW it would only be a matter of time before shithead here announced that he did all this on purpose, and we acted exactly like you expected.

It's old.  It's been done.

And you don't matter.

Just because it's cliche doesn't mean it's not real.
I'm TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOUR BELIEFS ABOUT ME?  Can't you tell?
And I'm succeeding?  Can't you tell?
Everything I say helps you help me?  Jerry style, you dig?
It's not you, it's ME that kicks out the JAMS.
I've had the whole thing under control the whole time brothers and sisters.

It's all about what you say.
It's about how you act.
It's about how smoooth you are.
Notice how I never lose my composure?
You want to know how I do it?

Notice I always lose my composure?
You want to know how I do it?
I'm changing the way you look at me..
I'm changing my image of myself in and of itself, from your point of view in my head.
I'm changing.
We're changing.

I have self esteem.  I have self esteem.
I am strong.
I am untouchable.
A new asshole is born.
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:18:32 pm
Nope.

I win.  I won already see cuz you guys just don't know the real secret.
I won already...
before you began.

Yeah.

losers.

HAW HAW!

Here we go!  You guys KNEW it would only be a matter of time before shithead here announced that he did all this on purpose, and we acted exactly like you expected.

It's old.  It's been done.

And you don't matter.

Just because it's cliche doesn't mean it's not real.
I'm TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOUR BELIEFS ABOUT ME?  Can't you tell?
And I'm succeeding?  Can't you tell?
Everything I say helps you help me?  Jerry style, you dig?
It's not you, it's ME that kicks out the JAMS.
I've had the whole thing under control the whole time brothers and sisters.

It's all about what you say.
It's about how you act.
It's about how smoooth you are.
Notice how I never lose my composure?
You want to know how I do it?

Notice I always lose my composure?
You want to know how I do it?
I'm changing the way you look at me..
I'm changing my image of myself in and of itself, from your point of view in my head.
I'm changing.
We're changing.

I have self esteem.  I have self esteem.
I am strong.
I am untouchable.
A new asshole is born.

Sorry, dipstick.  We're riffing on sharks now, and you really aren't part of the conversation anymore.

Run along, now.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:18:50 pm
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Told you.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 10:29:42 pm
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Told you.

WOW   this really is fucking interesting.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:30:06 pm
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Told you.

WOW   this really is fucking interesting.

Shut it punk.  People like you never get the inside jokes, anyway.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 09, 2008, 10:36:11 pm
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Told you.

WOW   this really is fucking interesting.

Shut it punk.  People like you never get the inside jokes, anyway.

Okay Bob.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 09, 2008, 10:39:14 pm
OFUK, HIS EXPERIMENT IS GOING AS PLANNED!

WE ARE AS PUPPETS TO HIS SOCIOLOGICAL BRILLIANCE!!!

FLEE, FLEE FROM HIS DIRE MANIPULATIONS!!!

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Told you.

WOW   this really is fucking interesting.

Shut it punk.  People like you never get the inside jokes, anyway.

Okay Bob.

Who?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Payne on April 09, 2008, 11:18:21 pm
I dunno, some Bob wanker.

If "Bob" finds out, he's gonna be pissed. More pissed.... Actually, he couldn't could he?
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on April 10, 2008, 03:55:26 am
PD DOT COM - where we have as much fun with the assholes as we do with the cool people :lulz:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Akara on April 10, 2008, 04:47:20 am
okay guys
i'm inside the cage so i can't hear you.

sorry

i'm just programmed to be outlandish
and um.... yeah, i anticipated your every move

mirror mirror on the wall, whose the most pretentious of all?
it's daruko!

This is starting to be just a bit depressing.  It's like watching a fat kid make fun of himself before anyone else has a chance to.

Have to disagree with you, Rev.  I'm still laughing.  This is one of the better inadvertant trolls since the Lamanite and AKK.

In fact, I think there should be a subforum with copies of all the threads from AKK, the Lamanite, I Am Not a Rhombus, this dumb prick, etc.  For the lulz.

That can be arranged.

Not that my n00bish opinion counts terribly much at this point, but I agree with that thought! :D
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Chairman Risus on April 10, 2008, 06:05:08 am
If it makes you feel any better, Daruko, I didn't like you before I had any reason to.


No, really, we have it on record.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: barumunk on April 10, 2008, 09:59:26 am
hahaha that thread was thoroughly entertaining
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 10, 2008, 11:09:19 am
hahaha that thread was thoroughly entertaining


But he never wrote us his rant on that rehash of a rehash.   :sad:
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 10, 2008, 02:49:03 pm
This is an excerpt from Liber AAA The Art of Anarchic Artha (A look through the void via Alan Watts) written by the OOO
and you may find it here in full: http://www.uncarved.org/OOO/watts.html (http://www.uncarved.org/OOO/watts.html)

There is one notable Western philosopher, however, who seems to be aiming at something similar. Watts viewed the writings of Wittgenstein as a form of jnana-yoga, intellectual bending and stretching which makes the mind supple and ready to realise profoundly its identity with It. As he was led to point out, many of the questions that seem so deeply meaningful, such as "Why are we here?" and "What is Existence?" are strictly speaking meaningless; somehow we get ourselves tied in mental knots whereby this isn't understood or felt at all. (6)

Wittgenstein started out using the linguistic logic first developed by Frege and Russell, but in trying to explore the construction of language, ended up transcending philosophy itself in the process. His jnana-yoga starts with using Russellian analysis to show how grammatical form can conceal the logical form of a sentence. This analysis acts extremely corrosively to get rid of self-contradiction and hidden assumptions by applying self-evident rules of logic to analyse grammatical constructions and break them into their most basic component parts. Complex sentences very often feature a grammatical "clouding over" of logic as they compress assumptions into too little a space ("Try me for size, babe" would be a good example of a very complex construction hiding out in a simple sentence-what could it exactly mean?). This is where metaphysical problems tend to creep into arguments-they refer to things that don't exist, but we become grammatically deluded by the seemingly convincing layout of language that the questions raised actually mean something in the first place. And as language gains its meaning socially, we can already see a similarity (concerning ego) with eastern philosophies. Wittgenstein was originally involved with logical 'atomism', which states that complex sentences are derived by linkages of 'atomic sentences'. These are in turn built out of atomic facts, which are the basic, 'given' units of language that cannot be analysed further (e.g. saying 'apple' to refer to, well, an apple). This already brings to mind a link with zen-style mysticism via Korzybski, who liked to point out that the experience of 'water' is not a word-you can't drink the word 'water'.

The jnana-yoga reaches another level when we start to work out how atomic facts are linked with atomic sentences in order to be logically linked together into complex sentences. In order to make a proposition that links an atomic fact with an atomic sentence, you already have to think of an atomic sentence that goeswith it. This is because they're atomic, not complex facts. (All we can do here is recommend that the reader checks out some Wittgenstein, sorry). Any attempt to describe the linkage will be itself a logical, and therefore complex, statement, capable of being analysed back to its atomic components. Wittgenstein used peculiarly suggestive language to suggest how the linkage is actually made-he called it 'showing'. An ironic slant on the old Chinese saying "a showing is worth a thousand words"! We're also reminded of zen's insistence on 'direct showing' of reality. We 'picture' (not mentally, but logically) due to the activity linking the atomic fact with its sentence, . . . but . . . something's gone wrong here . . . what about the theory of talking about all this in the first place? It's not logical, it's not atomic, it's not even tautological. It must therefore be meaningless, complete nonsense. The whole of Wittgenstein's philosophy is a giant koan used to tease the mind out of linear, logical thinking, and "that whereof one cannot speak one must consign to silence." The parallel with mysticism is obvious.

First two paragraphs = One of the theories of General Semantics (Language structure can affect how we think) combined with a Strange Loop.


Quote
There are also implications for the place of mystical writing in the overall scheme of things. Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logicophilosophicus (which ends with That Sentence About Silence) states that the limits of thought are the limits of what can be said. Again, another feel of what "stopping thought" could imply. Philosophies can only analyse the use of grammar, grammar being how language use derives its sense and nonsense. This means that Wittgenstein required that philosophers stop lapsing into language use connected with non-philosophical thought. When analysed using Russellian logic, many apparently philosophical writings turn out to have chunks of language use that are instead connected with language "games" such as condemnation, commendation, and so on. This led Wittgenstein to state that his aim was to bring language back to its "everyday use", i.e. its proper home. Language can only truly be analysed as it is actually used. The use of course depends on the world view of the user, which is a given, non-analysable set of assumptions that are left after the analysis has reached the atomic level. A world view is the "logical space" inhabited by language, and is a framework of true/false constructive activity. It can only be 'pictured' through the use of language. World view cannot be viewed in a broader concept, as that broader concept would itself form a world view. In other words, to assume there is an essence of language is meaningless and pointless. The same words can be used in entirely different languages. This is perhaps what gives rise to that feeling that some people who are appearing to talk sense are talking drivel, and vice versa. This is very important when trying to deal with eastern philosophies, as people can become easy prey to the next passing guru who will sell another version of institutionality with nice eastern trappings. As Wittgenstein said, "DON'T LOOK FOR THE MEANING, LOOK FOR THE USE".

Suggests that the medium is the only message; that thought only takes place in the realm of language, and therefore philosophy can only analyse grammar.

Quote
To press the point one more time, let us look at music again. Although all Western music uses a 12 tone scale, nobody (from the West) would ever dream of confusing Schoenberg with Wagner. The very essence of what their music is about, what it stands for, is utterly different. It is exactly this way with words. Words are empty (as John Cage enjoyed over the course of several records and a book).

Tries to say that words have no content, that content lies in the structure.




Why did I do that?

I don't know.  It's a slow work day.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 10, 2008, 04:36:53 pm
My internet is down at home for a couple days... so I don't have time for what I want to write about here... all bullshit aside, I really enjoyed the FULL article, and still want to share some thoughts on it.  Thanks LMNO for at least commenting on the article.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: hoopla on April 10, 2008, 07:21:11 pm
Which one is Daruko again?  It's so hard to keep up.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 10, 2008, 09:22:48 pm
(http://ikiki.sokushinbutsu.com/himoji/anime/nikudanime/kusojunkan.gif)
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 10, 2008, 09:24:21 pm
Just for some clarification, Daruko, there is a subforum for literary discussions, and people will be less likely to rip on you if you post stuff like this there, reserving "Or Kill Me" for original writings.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 10, 2008, 09:34:28 pm
ah i see
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on April 10, 2008, 10:04:43 pm
I just thought I would let you know before you do it again and get mocked for it. I've been mocked, I know.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Cain on April 10, 2008, 10:08:29 pm
Paging Mockingbird, paging mockingbird....
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 11, 2008, 03:43:18 am
ah i see

Odd.  You didn't see on page one, when I told you.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 11, 2008, 01:56:58 pm
Still had scales on, I presume.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: Daruko on April 11, 2008, 02:13:26 pm
You are aware that this is the rant forum, not the cut and paste forum, right?
I thought that was sarcasm... didn't realize there really was a "cut and paste" forum.
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: LMNO on April 11, 2008, 02:14:58 pm
Also known as "cock and repost".
Title: Re: Liber AAA Excerpt
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on April 13, 2008, 04:34:27 pm
You are aware that this is the rant forum, not the cut and paste forum, right?
I thought that was sarcasm... didn't realize there really was a "cut and paste" forum.


Well, my sarcasm has only one interpretation:  The literal one.

TGRR,
Is like Moses, and would Angel Of Deff A Motherfucker.