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Messages - Cramulus

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Or Kill Me / Re: Punching Man 4 where it counts
« on: Yesterday at 08:15:18 pm »
Assigning something mysterious or supernatural to this concept seems misguided to me. The concept of going into a flow state, or defaulting to a habit is not alien to me, but I don't see it as a thing to be fought against nor do I see attention as some sort of hard to reach state that is to be sought after for its own good. I don't summon up all my attention to make or eat breakfast in the morning before work. It's unnecessary to do so, spends lots of extra energy to remain in that state, and I'll probably fuck up my eggs because I'm trying to do it consciously rather than leaving it up to my well trained reflexive habits.

your mileage may vary

CNO is totally correct when he said, above, that it's not desirable to completely kill your autopilot. We need habits, we couldn't walk across a room without them. That's not what this is line of thinking is about.

It took me a long time to recognize the importance of these "unimportant" moments.

chatting with other humans

enjoying my breakfast

working up a sweat

desire, frustration, satisfaction

This is the material which makes up our lives! I used to think it was boring, I mean, I drink the same cup of coffee every day, right?

But if I'm home, if I'm present, there's a quality to these experiences... there's an exchange between me and the universe, and it makes me feel more alive.

And sometimes you talk to someone, and you can recognize that they're not really there. You're talking to their autopilot.

But life is not about going through the motions until you get to go on vacation and have a real experience there.

If I experience things with my habitual mind, they just pass. No mark is left.
Sometimes it seems like years pass without the needle ever making contact with the record.

what a waste, right?

Or Kill Me / Re: Punching Man 4 where it counts
« on: Yesterday at 07:55:58 pm »

There was a moment where you decided to move dirt, to change streams.
This is an important moment!
What was seeing, right then?
What is it, inside of us, that sees things from a higher perspective? and can sense these wild impulses that occupy us for years at a time?

The cognitive bit. Man 3 if you like. I have no organ for this fourth brain. I do have organs for the other three.

If your intellect can notice these things all by itself, and control the other systems, consider yourself lucky! I hope it sees clearly.

In me, most of the time, the intellect acts more like a commentary track. It compares things to other things. It figures out which heuristic to apply. But without direction (from somewhere else...), it cruises on dumb autopilot.

It "explains" and "rationalizes" what I'm doing.

Sometimes it leads.

Usually, I find it's acting as a slave to my emotions (I build a rational scaffold after the fact to 'explain' or 'justify' what I'm doing/feeling), but the intellect has trouble recognizing that all by itself. The intellect is a hammer that sees everything as a nail. The head doesn't know how small it is.

I believe that there is a way to develop a locus of action, an organizing principle for attention, which is NOT emotional and NOT intellectual and NOT merely driven by physical pleasure/displeasure. When every part of us is involved, we're more alive.

The question which arises: in our everyday state, what's missing?

Cram, I believe you are about to become a father. If I remembered right about that, congratulations! and: I predict your perspective on mindfulness is about to undergo a major shift as you will be focusing your attention on providing for and protecting your toddler from themselves.  there will be times when you are completely aware of *their* world and unaware of your own.

oh no doubt, I'm chomping at the chrysalis walls

Or Kill Me / Re: Punching Man 4 where it counts
« on: Yesterday at 04:19:53 pm »
Man-4... maybe it's better to call it "the fourth brain". A lot of people have a very limited access to that capacity; we talk about it as something that has to be developed over time. It's not a birthright -- it's something you have to make efforts to achieve. Everybody thinks they have it already, so they never make the efforts, and so they remain trapped in habit and automaticity.

We recognize that our everyday conscious experience is this ongoing negotiation between the first three "brains" (the will of the physical body, the mental body, and the emotional body). By observing this process, we might be able to develop a new relationship with that process. Perhaps observations of this inner interplay, over a long period of time, can create something outside of that interplay. A watcher. And that watcher is composed of a lot of data.

There was a moment where you decided to move dirt, to change streams.
This is an important moment!
What was seeing, right then?
What is it, inside of us, that sees things from a higher perspective? and can sense these wild impulses that occupy us for years at a time?

Sometimes I do things and there's no intention behind them. Most of the time, we cruise on autopilot. I start to eat a meal and then suddenly I'm done. I don't even remember the intermediary bites. I get into a car and then I pull up to my destination. In between, there's a fog. Why can't I remember it? Where was I during that process? Something's not engaged, not present. Can you sense it?

when we can identify these two different states
(when it's there
when it's not)
only then we can observe the conditions that create these states.

And when we finally understand the conditions, we have a toe hold.

Until now, it only seems to appear according to the law of accident.
What we want -- is to achieve this state intentionally, voluntarily, consciously.

easier said than done

but that's why they call it Work

Or Kill Me / Re: Ruminating on Gurus
« on: June 07, 2021, 08:36:36 pm »
I like what you said about seeking oblivion vs seeking life.

Gurdjieff was one of those I had in mind for the third type of guru. Not na´ve and still striving to help those who strive to live. From reading your experiences it seems like you have found a group that isn't overridden by the seekers of oblivion. Congrats on that. I'm still trying to decide if I should continue attending the cabal meetings, and the above post was my attempt at sorting through some of that. The fact that much of the discussion revolves around the works of Gurdjieff raises difficult concerns for me because of my bias and past experiences, because I see him as having the role of a guru. For now I'm leaning towards sticking around because at the very least it gives my mind something to chew on during the quiet hours at work.

Do what's needed!
Gurdjieff is not for everybody. If it's not your thing, don't sweat it. For real.

Our cabal is exploring his thought together, but we are not a "4th Way" group. We're a "5th Way" group.  :fnord: That's our own thing.

Our way, which we're creating as we go,
is about breaking into the temple and trying on its regalia.

We owe nothing to Gurdjieff himself. The old mage has been dead for 70 years.
We're like vikings cruising down the fjord looking for a temple to raid. But we don't want the gold.

all that being said, remember there are two different meetings, which alternate weeks. This coming Wednesday is actually the Potluck Cult.
We'll be talking about The Art of Memetics. We'll be joined by the illustrator and one of the authors.

"I am a crock of shit. In my view, Discordianism is this. It is seeking to fulfil that which novelty cannot. It is a bottomless striving. It is endless seeking. It is self deception where necessary, and where possible it is staring at the naked reality, no matter how unpleasant. It is ritual for the biological urge for ritual. It is gathering and dividing. It is hooking objective reality to subjective value, winding up the springs, and marching disorderly into the unknown. It is clear as mud, mystery that requires pickaxes, and likely always poop at the core."

what a crock of shit!!  :)

Literate Chaotic / Re: Aspiring to Bullshit
« on: June 07, 2021, 06:35:21 pm »
The path between the two is narrow, but don't hesitate, or the current will take you back.

I thought maybe I could share a few quatrains from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, as a digestif.

So when at last the Angel of the drink
of Darkness finds you by the river-brink,
   And, proferring his Cup, invites your Soul
Forth to your lips to quaff it--do not shrink.

And fear not lest Existence closing your
Account, should lose, or know the type no more;
    The Eternak Saki from that Bowl has pour'd
Millions of Bubbles like us, and will pour.

When You and I behind the Veil are past,
Oh, but the long long while the World shall last,
    Which of our coming and departure heeds
As much as Ocean of a pebble-cast

One Moment in Annihilation's Waste,
One Moment, the Well of Life to taste---
    The Stars are setting, and the Caravan
Draws to the Dawn of Nothing--Oh, make haste!

But if in vain, down on the stubborn floor
Of Earth, and up to Heaven's unopening Door,
    You gaze To-Day, while You are You--how then
To-morrow, You when shall be You no more?

Oh, threats of Hell and Hopes of Paradise!
One thing at least is certain--This Life flies;
    One thing is certain and the rest is Lies;
The Flower that once is blown for ever dies.

Strange, is it not? that of the myriads who
Before us pass'd the door of Darkness through,
    Not one returns to tell us of the Road,
Which to discover we must travel too.

Bring and Brag / Re: music store employees - a tribute
« on: June 07, 2021, 04:25:01 pm »
I enjoyed that

Or Kill Me / Re: Ruminating on Gurus
« on: June 07, 2021, 04:19:21 pm »
This is a good post, a lot of good thought in there.

I'm with you in that I am immediately on guard when someone says they have all the answers, or that they have this great shortcut / life hack which will only cost you $19.99, etc etc. When I started reading about Gurdjieff, I was on high alert against being subsumed by cult dynamics.

But I also know that there are certain things out there -- often they are abstract spiritual topics, like meditation, or techniques that are best transimtted by example -- which I cannot necessarily figure out all by myself. Words you read in a book fall short. I need someone to lead me to the place. This requires trust. This trust can be abused. Intentional inner change is always risky (or else it is worthless).

To navigate this dangerous terrain, there are two pieces of armor I keep polished:

-Verification. A good teacher doesn't ask you to take anything on faith. You have to do your own work to verify what's given to you. (I think - most things you haven't verified yourself should be regarded as empty until proven otherwise) This raises a deep question though -- How can we verify the intangible? What does it mean to KNOW something? To have a real understanding of the cosmos and the self? (This mystery is the essence of gnosticism.)

-Discordianism. Eris has a powerful weapon in her arsenal: laughter. The Principia Discordia is not fucking around when it presents laughter as the highest tier of magical tools. Laughing at someone blunts their authority. Laughing at yourself can jailbreak you from your trajectory. With the flip of a mental switch, you can reevaluate what you're doing and go "ehhh most of this is probabably bullshit, lol". If we can see ourselves as a cosmic shmuck, then the banana peels that the cosmos lays for us are no longer dangerous, but part of this slapstick routine. Fundamentalism and orthodoxy crumble as soon as you stop taking them so seriously. And sometimes we need to take things seriously, we just also need to remain flexible, to not get trapped.


I have just a bit more about this subject, then hopefully I'll be off to the races delving into other topics. For now I'm just trying to process some fears and other feelings so I can repair some of my faculties.

It's good! the processing you're doing right now--

there are feelings you've probably been ignoring, and they're finally loud enough to enter your conscious presence. THIS is the moment you've been waiting for.

Doing what needs doing is gonna take a lot of effort and energy, from a certain perspective it's a lot easier to give in and just drop to the bottom.

"you can't get there from here"

you've pushed the skiff out onto the lake, but that energy has passed and now you're just drifting

this thread is a noble recognition that your current trajectory is insufficent to reach the far shore.

You will need MORE energy, MORE effort

and also MORE FUEL,
which you can get in the form of impressions received during I'm Really Alive Right Now type experiences.

I'll really try to show up at the next cabal pot luck... I guess that is what I'm trying to say. Any idea when that'll be? And what is the next subject? I can at least attempt reading something. Hopefully I can bring something other than my usual "We're all going to die anyway" downerism to stink up the table.

no pressure! you do you, nade :)

This Wednesday, we're discussing chapters 4-5 of Unknowable Gurdjieff
On 6/9, we'll be discussing the second half of The Art of Memetics (we'll be joined by the book's artist, Ray Carney, and one of the authors, Ed Lobo.)

as always, we are talking about lofty topics but our focus is practical: how to get free. how to build a discordian practice. how to function as a cabal. how to be together despite the chasms between us. what does it mean to follow Eris in 2021?

I start to wonder. Do I functionally exist at all?

what is not watered

and the withered flower collects no sun

You say your contact with your spouse has diminished too -- so this is not just a hermit problem, your atrophy exists in other people's lives too, and this is a problem.

The human being comes equipped with a lot of hardware, much of it is social. You're not gonna feel ALIVE until you're a whole hog (so to speak). If you live in your head, you're only living 1/3rd of a life.

Though you didn't ask it -- my advice to you
is to focus on a type of sensing that you've gotten rusty at

when you're talking to someone else

get out of your head

sense THEIR emotional experience
sense what THEY are feeling
and don't immediately use that as an input to boot up some Talking Machine--stay out of that place

try doing something for someone else

try to CARE about the other person

if you can reconnect with that feeling, if you can re-engage your heart,
then you can start to live again

until then, your grave deserves to read

   "He was a tube
   food went in, poop came out"

Is that all?

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 28, 2021, 03:54:39 pm »
I'm looking for a piece of Subgenius writing which encouraged people to burn a twenty dollar bill. Something about it being a form of Subgenius initiation  .. to experience the resistance to the destruction of your own slack, to feel the slack burn away into the air. Sound familiar to any of you naked old losers?

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 24, 2021, 08:56:16 pm »
4. Roger's nipples now have four different textures of hair. That's course, curly, fine, and something we've been calling "Kramer"

Apple Talk / Re: Open Bar: Curbside Pickup Only
« on: May 20, 2021, 09:38:50 pm »
dang dude, you've had that job forever

congrats on the new growth

Or Kill Me / Re: from kether to malkuth
« on: May 14, 2021, 02:11:12 pm »

love the image of the anti-tower of babel

what an illegible being
what an illegible world

Apple Talk / Re: Everyday Religious Experiences
« on: April 30, 2021, 09:05:24 pm »
there is a gnostic meditation exercise (the gurdjieff "sensing" exercise, sometimes called 'the morning sitting') which opens my pineal gland RIGHT up

Apple Talk / Re: Introductions, Part VI: Welcome to Our PD Party
« on: April 17, 2021, 12:17:01 pm »
I don't dislike you, Cram, it's just that your business methods are unscrupulous, and you teach people that it's okay to have an MBA.

I wish you'd stop harassing people about their Micro Ball Awards though. The institute has been trying to comfort these people by giving them awards. They have nothing else but their tiny, tiny, award winning balls.

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