Now she has people all in a tizzy over this video (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8
They're all "she's sending the message that young women should be sexually available!"
Because, um, all music videos ever don't send that message? :lol:
No, what's pissing people off, though they can't identify it themselves, is that she is sending the message that she has sexual agency, and that the sexual energy of a young woman can be overwhelming and intimidating in its own right rather than merely an accessory for men.
Also it's a pretty great video.
I think I called it accurately, then. :lulz:
Her career as an actress is over. Her career as a pop star was stalling at low altitude.
But then she found her niche. Gadfly. And she's doing it better than Gaga, which is fucking saying something.
And the best thing about gadflies is, they serve as a really important check on whatever they're mocking. In this case, entertainment.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 08:34:47 PM
I think I called it accurately, then. :lulz:
Her career as an actress is over. Her career as a pop star was stalling at low altitude.
But then she found her niche. Gadfly. And she's doing it better than Gaga, which is fucking saying something.
And the best thing about gadflies is, they serve as a really important check on whatever they're mocking. In this case, entertainment.
Yep. :lulz: It's pretty awesome.
Also, I quite honestly like that song, which is also saying something. I like her singing voice quite a bit, actually.
Her speaking voice is devastating. I think I have a crush on a girl half my age. :lol:
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
Well, she's a kid who is discovering her adult identity. I wouldn't expect anything too profoundly original for a few more years.
Sounds a little like Taylor Swift in parts, too. That's the country influence though.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
This disturbs me. Lana Del Ray makes my pance tight, and some little kid doing it gives me the jimjams.
Um. Just looked it up. Lana Del Ray is 27. :horrormirth:
TGRR,
ANCIENT PERV.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:30:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
This disturbs me. Lana Del Ray makes my pance tight, and some little kid doing it gives me the jimjams.
Um. Just looked it up. Lana Del Ray is 27. :horrormirth:
TGRR,
ANCIENT PERV.
I'm pretty sure 27 is legal hitting-on age...
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:30:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
This disturbs me. Lana Del Ray makes my pance tight, and some little kid doing it gives me the jimjams.
Um. Just looked it up. Lana Del Ray is 27. :horrormirth:
TGRR,
ANCIENT PERV.
I'm pretty sure 27 is legal hitting-on age...
I'll be 45 in a few weeks. 27 may be LEGAL for me, but it's also fucking RIDICULOUS.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:30:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
This disturbs me. Lana Del Ray makes my pance tight, and some little kid doing it gives me the jimjams.
Um. Just looked it up. Lana Del Ray is 27. :horrormirth:
TGRR,
ANCIENT PERV.
I'm pretty sure 27 is legal hitting-on age...
I'll be 45 in a few weeks. 27 may be LEGAL for me, but it's also fucking RIDICULOUS.
Ridiculous for doing things, not so much for lookings, IMO.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 09:54:10 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 10, 2013, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 09:30:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 10, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
She's kind copping Lana Del Ray on this track, but I happen to be one of those who like her music, so I'm cool with it.
This disturbs me. Lana Del Ray makes my pance tight, and some little kid doing it gives me the jimjams.
Um. Just looked it up. Lana Del Ray is 27. :horrormirth:
TGRR,
ANCIENT PERV.
I'm pretty sure 27 is legal hitting-on age...
I'll be 45 in a few weeks. 27 may be LEGAL for me, but it's also fucking RIDICULOUS.
Ridiculous for doing things, not so much for lookings, IMO.
I have my own internal peanut gallery. They jeer at me when I do shit like that.
One of the side-effects of getting older is not being able to tell how old young people are anymore. They all just look "young". 27? 35? Who can tell the difference, they're all kids.
I still think of my accountant as a "kid" because when I met him he was 19 and I was 22. :lulz: Despite the fact that he's a 39-year-old CPA who does my taxes. Regardless; when I met him I could buy alcohol and he couldn't, therefore he is a kid. Forever.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 10, 2013, 09:59:49 PM
One of the side-effects of getting older is not being able to tell how old young people are anymore. They all just look "young". 27? 35? Who can tell the difference, they're all kids.
Yeah, but I thought Lana Del Ray was about 35.
QuoteI still think of my accountant as a "kid" because when I met him he was 19 and I was 22. :lulz: Despite the fact that he's a 39-year-old CPA who does my taxes. Regardless; when I met him I could buy alcohol and he couldn't, therefore he is a kid. Forever.
:lol:
<translation of negative reviews>
This is awful. She's not dripping off the arms of a single man in this video. Not stuck sycophantically to the overmuscled abs of one solitary male. Where's the machismo? Where's the sex? Look at her, being apparently satisfied all by herself riding around on a giant ball, and using the one phallic symbol in the whole video to her own advantage. Breaking through walls and shit. I dunno. It just seems sterile to me. What good is a pretty lady who isn't being dominated by anyone? Why would any woman have a sexuality that doesn't depend on a penis? And what's next? What if they make a sexy video with no phallic symbols at all? Jesus. If this is how the world's going to be from now on, I just don't think I can take it.
</translation>
Saint V3X wins the interbutts again.
Quote from: V3X on September 10, 2013, 10:10:55 PM
<translation of negative reviews>
This is awful. She's not dripping off the arms of a single man in this video. Not stuck sycophantically to the overmuscled abs of one solitary male. Where's the machismo? Where's the sex? Look at her, being apparently satisfied all by herself riding around on a giant ball, and using the one phallic symbol in the whole video to her own advantage. Breaking through walls and shit. I dunno. It just seems sterile to me. What good is a pretty lady who isn't being dominated by anyone? Why would any woman have a sexuality that doesn't depend on a penis? And what's next? What if they make a sexy video with no phallic symbols at all? Jesus. If this is how the world's going to be from now on, I just don't think I can take it.
</translation>
TOTAL DEVASTATION. :mittens:
I am fascinated that the people who are squealing about her "sending the message that girls need to be sexually available to men" are COMPLETELY MISSING ALL THE COPIOUS AND NOT AT ALL VEILED METAPHOR in the video. She is not sexually AVAILABLE to men. That implies passivity. :lol:
TL;DR version: Miley Cyrus is now the centerfold girl for the nation's Outrage Porn.
Which is fucking hilarious.
I think that female sexuality still really scares a lot of people. OH MY GOD SHE IS ACTING LIKE SHE WANTS TO HAVE SEX AND AGGRESSIVELY PURSUED A MAN, HOLY SHIT, SCATTER, WHERE'S THE HOLY WATER?
Look at how sexually aggressive women have almost always been portrayed in films. Anything from clueless troublemakers to homewreckers to psychotic to flat-out evil.
NSA spying on us. Yawn.
Another war. Yawn.
Poverty spreading like the fucking plague. Yawn.
Girl makes video. SHIT! FUCK! CALL A FUCKING EXORCIST!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 10:54:53 PM
TL;DR version: Miley Cyrus is now the centerfold girl for the nation's Outrage Porn.
Which is fucking hilarious.
It's amazing. :lulz:
:lol:
Great minds think alike.
Funny thing is, you're 169% right. Sexually aggressive women are ALWAYS portrayed as evil. ALWAYS.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 10:58:35 PM
:lol:
Great minds think alike.
Funny thing is, you're 169% right. Sexually aggressive women are ALWAYS portrayed as evil. ALWAYS.
I must be broken on the inside because I can't even be
attracted to women who aren't sexually aggressive. Must be all those years as a teenager that I spent calling myself a Satanist.
My favorite part is that there are no men in the video. I mean, she's singing about a destructive relationship, but that guy's an abstract, and she was very much the aggressor. So it's still not about him, it's about her.
For some reason the sledgehammer in particular seems to arouse the wrath of prudes. They are all "it's phallic" but the metaphor is more obviously sex toy than penis, which is also probably incredibly threatening.
I'm starting to understand why my psych professor was so into media psychology. :lol:
I like pretty much everything about that video.
It's interesting. I have a strong aversion to pop music so the song drives me a little nuts, and I also really don't like autotune.
But, I have to give her credit for not choosing the easy Britney Spears path.
I'm also biased because I have a daughter who was a Disney-era Miley Spears fan so her voice still has a fingernails-on-chalkboard quality for me.
ETA: I meant Miley Cyrus. Ugh, head cold making it hard to think straight
(http://d6.img.v4.skyrock.net/5382/81895382/pics/3141089948_1_2_GNRje579.jpg)
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
I didn't hear any autotune. I mean, it certainly could have been non-obviously autotuned, but I've seen some of her live videos and she absolutely has the voice control that there's no reason for it to have been.
I was going to but
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
My kids weren't into Hannah Montana... in fact, if I recall they hated her. I'm fortunate in escaping that fate.
They love the new Miley, though. :lulz:
Quote from: V3X on September 10, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 10, 2013, 10:58:35 PM
:lol:
Great minds think alike.
Funny thing is, you're 169% right. Sexually aggressive women are ALWAYS portrayed as evil. ALWAYS.
I must be broken on the inside because I can't even be attracted to women who aren't sexually aggressive. Must be all those years as a teenager that I spent calling myself a Satanist.
Well, me too. But that's not how it's marketed. I find sexually passive people kinda creepy, come to think of it.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 10, 2013, 08:31:45 PM
Now she has people all in a tizzy over this video (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8
They're all "she's sending the message that young women should be sexually available!"
Because, um, all music videos ever don't send that message? :lol:
No, what's pissing people off, though they can't identify it themselves, is that she is sending the message that she has sexual agency, and that the sexual energy of a young woman can be overwhelming and intimidating in its own right rather than merely an accessory for men.
Also it's a pretty great video.
I didn't care who she was before she grinded up against that sleazy guy who can't sing, and I don't particularly care now. I don't see what all the fuss is about...
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:15:56 AM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 10, 2013, 08:31:45 PM
Now she has people all in a tizzy over this video (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8
They're all "she's sending the message that young women should be sexually available!"
Because, um, all music videos ever don't send that message? :lol:
No, what's pissing people off, though they can't identify it themselves, is that she is sending the message that she has sexual agency, and that the sexual energy of a young woman can be overwhelming and intimidating in its own right rather than merely an accessory for men.
Also it's a pretty great video.
I didn't care who she was before she grinded up against that sleazy guy who can't sing, and I don't particularly care now. I don't see what all the fuss is about...
It's a rather grotesque and TITANIC troll. And it's working beautifully. I feel like I'm watching Michangelo at work.
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
I don't really get the troll angle myself. To me the VMA thing was just anothe one of the "shocking VMA performances" made to get people talking, like Madonna, Britney Spears, Madonna AND Britney Spears, Prince, etc. I don't really get the hoopla either way.
But like I said, I have to at least hand it to her for not choosing to go down the usual Disney-star-turned-sex-pot road as so many others have.
But then again, I also don't get the hoopla around Lady Gaga. Maybe I'm too cynical when it comes to mainstream music.
ETA: What Faust said.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
Not quite like this. All of the above did the "LOOK HOW OUTRAGEOUS I AM" thing, sexuality-wise. This kid did it in a manner that was grotesque; there was no real attempt at "sexy". It got the desired results...A mediocre pop star is now the hottest thing on the planet, AND she pretty much wrecked the standard template "Female Pop Star™ forever.
Now she's basically flogging the dead horse for the extra "mutilate the body" points. She's become OUTRAGE PORN, and the reactions out of people are fucking hysterical...All the way from grumpy old man "I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO TALK ABOUT THIS" to scandalized "THAT LITTLE WHORE" to
weird shit, like "THAT SLEAZY DUDE MADE HER DO THIS WIFF HIS MIND CONTROL LAZOR PENIS".
What the fuck isn't to love? :lulz:
I dunno, I think that template was already on life support as the video-era has ended.
The new game, from my viewpoint, is doing wacky stuff on YouTube and going viral. So in that respect, I see her performance more as riding a wave that was already there.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 12:30:12 AM
I dunno, I think that template was already on life support as the video-era has ended.
Except for 90% of all female pop singers ever, including now.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:25:52 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
Not quite like this. All of the above did the "LOOK HOW OUTRAGEOUS I AM" thing, sexuality-wise. This kid did it in a manner that was grotesque; there was no real attempt at "sexy". It got the desired results...A mediocre pop star is now the hottest thing on the planet, AND she pretty much wrecked the standard template "Female Pop Star™ forever.
Now she's basically flogging the dead horse for the extra "mutilate the body" points. She's become OUTRAGE PORN, and the reactions out of people are fucking hysterical...All the way from grumpy old man "I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO TALK ABOUT THIS" to scandalized "THAT LITTLE WHORE" to weird shit, like "THAT SLEAZY DUDE MADE HER DO THIS WIFF HIS MIND CONTROL LAZOR PENIS".
What the fuck isn't to love? :lulz:
Fair enough, I guess I just can't see the difference, probably need to be more in tune with what makes her different from Rhiannon and the other pop stars to get the Joke/appeal/scandal. Chalk that up to not having seen any music videos in over a decade.
SHE WAS LICKING THE HEAD OF A SLEDGHAMMER!!!!
THAT TAKES DEDICATION!!!!!
ALSO TENDER BITS NEAR CHAIN FOR HANGING GIANT SMASHING BALL!!!!
MORE DEDICATION!!!!
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:32:36 AM
Fair enough, I guess I just can't see the difference, probably need to be more in tune with what makes her different from Rhiannon and the other pop stars to get the Joke/appeal/scandal. Chalk that up to not having seen any music videos in over a decade.
I literally had no idea who she was before the VMA thing. It's still funny.
Unless it's too mainstream or something, eh?
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
They did some version or another. This particular iteration is different mostly because she isn't bothering with the glamorous, going straight to uncomfortably pervy with men only existing as props if they exist at all, in a complete reversal of the popstar double standard, and it's working. It's upsetting people, but they aren't ignoring her, they're STARING at her, which is what she wanted.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:17:35 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:15:56 AM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 10, 2013, 08:31:45 PM
Now she has people all in a tizzy over this video (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8
They're all "she's sending the message that young women should be sexually available!"
Because, um, all music videos ever don't send that message? :lol:
No, what's pissing people off, though they can't identify it themselves, is that she is sending the message that she has sexual agency, and that the sexual energy of a young woman can be overwhelming and intimidating in its own right rather than merely an accessory for men.
Also it's a pretty great video.
I didn't care who she was before she grinded up against that sleazy guy who can't sing, and I don't particularly care now. I don't see what all the fuss is about...
It's a rather grotesque and TITANIC troll. And it's working beautifully. I feel like I'm watching Michangelo at work.
Yeah, this kid is good. And she's only 20.
She upstaged LADY GAGA, FFS. People are all like, why can't you be demure and classy like Lady Gaga? :lol:
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 12:36:13 AM
Yeah, this kid is good. And she's only 20.
She upstaged LADY GAGA, FFS. People are all like, why can't you be demure and classy like Lady Gaga? :lol:
:lulz:
And she did it BADLY. DELIBERATELY badly.
Gaga is probably hiring a hit man as we speak.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:32:36 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:25:52 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
Not quite like this. All of the above did the "LOOK HOW OUTRAGEOUS I AM" thing, sexuality-wise. This kid did it in a manner that was grotesque; there was no real attempt at "sexy". It got the desired results...A mediocre pop star is now the hottest thing on the planet, AND she pretty much wrecked the standard template "Female Pop Star™ forever.
Now she's basically flogging the dead horse for the extra "mutilate the body" points. She's become OUTRAGE PORN, and the reactions out of people are fucking hysterical...All the way from grumpy old man "I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO TALK ABOUT THIS" to scandalized "THAT LITTLE WHORE" to weird shit, like "THAT SLEAZY DUDE MADE HER DO THIS WIFF HIS MIND CONTROL LAZOR PENIS".
What the fuck isn't to love? :lulz:
Fair enough, I guess I just can't see the difference, probably need to be more in tune with what makes her different from Rhiannon and the other pop stars to get the Joke/appeal/scandal. Chalk that up to not having seen any music videos in over a decade.
I don't keep up with the pop and the videos and all that shit. But I know culture troll genius when I see it.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
They did some version or another. This particular iteration is different mostly because she isn't bothering with the glamorous, going straight to uncomfortably pervy with men only existing as props if they exist at all, in a complete reversal of the popstar double standard, and it's working. It's upsetting people, but they aren't ignoring her, they're STARING at her, which is what she wanted.
In that case she is completely successful, people are talking about her and she is going to make a lot of money on this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:32:36 AM
Fair enough, I guess I just can't see the difference, probably need to be more in tune with what makes her different from Rhiannon and the other pop stars to get the Joke/appeal/scandal. Chalk that up to not having seen any music videos in over a decade.
I literally had no idea who she was before the VMA thing. It's still funny.
Unless it's too mainstream or something, eh?
I realised how hipster what I said was after I posted it, but it is the honest truth, I wouldn't know what is mainstream or alternative any more. I've pirated everything for over the last decade which is all stuff last.fm or grooveshark played that I liked. You kind of miss out on whats going on if you do that.
How do we know it was deliberately bad and not just bad? We ARE talking about the former Hannah Montana AND the offspring of Billy Ray.
I've suffered through a lot of her "acting". She seems to be pretty good at just being plain bad.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:37:11 AM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 12:36:13 AM
Yeah, this kid is good. And she's only 20.
She upstaged LADY GAGA, FFS. People are all like, why can't you be demure and classy like Lady Gaga? :lol:
:lulz:
And she did it BADLY. DELIBERATELY badly.
Gaga is probably hiring a hit man as we speak.
:lulz:
And did you get a load of the lyrics to "Wrecking Ball"?
QuoteI came in like a wrecking ball
I never hit so hard in love
All I wanted was to break your walls
All you ever did was wreck me
Yeah you, you wreck me
QuoteI never meant to start a war
I just wanted you to let me in
And instead of using force
I guess I should've let you win
I never meant to start a war
I just wanted you to let me in
I guess I should've let you win
:lol: No wonder it's all men who are like OH NO OH MY GOD, while women are like HEY THAT'S KIND OF MAKING ME WET.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 12:42:07 AM
How do we know it was deliberately bad and not just bad? We ARE talking about the former Hannah Montana AND the offspring of Billy Ray.
I've suffered through a lot of her "acting". She seems to be pretty good at just being plain bad.
I am assuming you're talking about the VMAs... it took me a couple of viewings and some research to conclude it was deliberate, but the clincher really came a couple of days later, in her comment and shit-eating grin. "You watched it. I win".
The video here isn't bad, at all. It's quite good in fact. Just REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE for a lot of people. The sledgehammer, in particular, is really pissing people off. Mostly guys.
:lulz:
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:41:18 AM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
They did some version or another. This particular iteration is different mostly because she isn't bothering with the glamorous, going straight to uncomfortably pervy with men only existing as props if they exist at all, in a complete reversal of the popstar double standard, and it's working. It's upsetting people, but they aren't ignoring her, they're STARING at her, which is what she wanted.
In that case she is completely successful, people are talking about her and she is going to make a lot of money on this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 12:34:08 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:32:36 AM
Fair enough, I guess I just can't see the difference, probably need to be more in tune with what makes her different from Rhiannon and the other pop stars to get the Joke/appeal/scandal. Chalk that up to not having seen any music videos in over a decade.
I literally had no idea who she was before the VMA thing. It's still funny.
Unless it's too mainstream or something, eh?
I realised how hipster what I said was after I posted it, but it is the honest truth, I wouldn't know what is mainstream or alternative any more. I've pirated everything for over the last decade which is all stuff last.fm or grooveshark played that I liked. You kind of miss out on whats going on if you do that.
I thought you'd see the humor in that. :lol: Anyway, tell you what...Watch the video, and see if you can spot what makes it so damn disturbing.
I don't get why it is uncomfortable. Honestly I think it is kind of boring. If people are upset because she's naked, well that's only been done by like almost every super huge female pop star since Madonna. And the sledgehammer thing is just weird. I watch that and I'm not thinking "phallic", I'm thinking, "gee, that must taste really bad"
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 01:40:10 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 12:42:07 AM
How do we know it was deliberately bad and not just bad? We ARE talking about the former Hannah Montana AND the offspring of Billy Ray.
I've suffered through a lot of her "acting". She seems to be pretty good at just being plain bad.
I am assuming you're talking about the VMAs... it took me a couple of viewings and some research to conclude it was deliberate, but the clincher really came a couple of days later, in her comment and shit-eating grin. "You watched it. I win".
The video here isn't bad, at all. It's quite good in fact. Just REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE for a lot of people. The sledgehammer, in particular, is really pissing people off. Mostly guys.
:lulz:
One thing I find fascinating about what she's done is this: She burned every bridge behind her, and grinned like a maniac.
And if that's not Discordia, I'll kiss my own ass.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 01:46:15 AM
I don't get why it is uncomfortable. Honestly I think it is kind of boring. If people are upset because she's naked, well that's only been done by like almost every super huge female pop star since Madonna. And the sledgehammer thing is just weird. I watch that and I'm not thinking "phallic", I'm thinking, "gee, that must taste really bad"
It's not supposed to be phallic.
There's something missing in that video, that makes things sorta jangle when compared to pop music videos.
Let's see if you spot it.
It seems to be missing content that would make it interesting.
Also, from some research it looks like she neither wrote the song nor directed the video. So how is she not just another manufactured pop star like all of the other manufactured pop stars who don't write their own music?
This album is actually, based on an interview I read with her, the first project over which she has had complete creative control. So, she doesn't write the songs but she buys them, hires the director of her choice, etc.
In other words, she is manufactured, but she is also the manufacturer.
Sort of like how Dale Chihuly is still the artist even though he hires people to make his work, only with more integrity.
It's not a particularly great or interesting song. I like it, but it's just OK. It's the whole package and presentation that's interesting. She IS doing all the things. All the pop star things. Following the formula... except for one missing ingredient, and that ingredient is pissing everyone off, even though they can't articulate why. :lol: It's beautiful.
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 02:06:27 AM
It's not a particularly great or interesting song. I like it, but it's just OK. It's the whole package and presentation that's interesting. She IS doing all the things. All the pop star things. Following the formula... except for one missing ingredient, and that ingredient is pissing everyone off, even though they can't articulate why. :lol: It's beautiful.
It bugged me all day until I spotted it.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
It seems to be missing content that would make it interesting.
Okay.
QuoteAlso, from some research it looks like she neither wrote the song nor directed the video. So how is she not just another manufactured pop star like all of the other manufactured pop stars who don't write their own music?
I don't expect pop stars to direct. It's not what they do. I am also not bothered that she didn't write the song, whether or not you mean the music or the lyrics...Even Elton John doesn't write his own lyrics, he has Bernie Taupin for that. Usually Elton John's IDEA, but Taupin's LYRICS.
Thing is, there's something really neat about that video, but I can't really make you pay attention, if you hate it that much.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:41:18 AM
Quote from: Facemeat on September 11, 2013, 12:34:17 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 12:21:23 AM
Didn't Madonna, Kylie, Britney and various other derivations do that pretty much every year in some guise or form since forever.
I wonder would the reaction have been the same if she hadn't been in a disney show.
They did some version or another. This particular iteration is different mostly because she isn't bothering with the glamorous, going straight to uncomfortably pervy with men only existing as props if they exist at all, in a complete reversal of the popstar double standard, and it's working. It's upsetting people, but they aren't ignoring her, they're STARING at her, which is what she wanted.
In that case she is completely successful, people are talking about her and she is going to make a lot of money on this.
Yep I think you're spot-on about that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 02:20:30 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
It seems to be missing content that would make it interesting.
Okay.
QuoteAlso, from some research it looks like she neither wrote the song nor directed the video. So how is she not just another manufactured pop star like all of the other manufactured pop stars who don't write their own music?
I don't expect pop stars to direct. It's not what they do. I am also not bothered that she didn't write the song, whether or not you mean the music or the lyrics...Even Elton John doesn't write his own lyrics, he has Bernie Taupin for that. Usually Elton John's IDEA, but Taupin's LYRICS.
Thing is, there's something really neat about that video, but I can't really make you pay attention, if you hate it that much.
I don't hate it, I just don't get the hub-bub about it or her. She just seems to be the latest flavor of the day using "controversial" imagery to get eyeballs and move units. Madonna did that, and frankly did it better. I'm thinking "Like a Prayer" in particular. I don't see anything any different with Ms. Cyrus here.
No glitz, no glamor.
Just a girl in her underwear and a bunch of metal and concrete.
She looks good, but it's not PRETTY.
I love this shit.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 02:55:32 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 02:20:30 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
It seems to be missing content that would make it interesting.
Okay.
QuoteAlso, from some research it looks like she neither wrote the song nor directed the video. So how is she not just another manufactured pop star like all of the other manufactured pop stars who don't write their own music?
I don't expect pop stars to direct. It's not what they do. I am also not bothered that she didn't write the song, whether or not you mean the music or the lyrics...Even Elton John doesn't write his own lyrics, he has Bernie Taupin for that. Usually Elton John's IDEA, but Taupin's LYRICS.
Thing is, there's something really neat about that video, but I can't really make you pay attention, if you hate it that much.
I don't hate it, I just don't get the hub-bub about it or her. She just seems to be the latest flavor of the day using "controversial" imagery to get eyeballs and move units. Madonna did that, and frankly did it better. I'm thinking "Like a Prayer" in particular. I don't see anything any different with Ms. Cyrus here.
Actually, she's using a gimmick, alright...But it's not the immediately obvious one. She leaves something crucial out of each performance (granted, only 2 data points here, and both are different things), and what she leaves out makes everything horrible and wrong.
Quote from: stelz on September 11, 2013, 02:57:02 AM
No glitz, no glamor.
Just a girl in her underwear and a bunch of metal and concrete.
She looks good, but it's not PRETTY.
I love this shit.
Stelz, see if you can spot the missing ingredient in that video.
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
So, they're basically freaking out over a reaction they don't really understand and rationalizing it. Hilarious. :lulz:
Because when I look at this video, I think, wow. Whoever this character is, she is one strong woman and any person would be lucky to have that sort of passionate person in their life, that drive to break down walls.
ETA: And by strong, I mean possessing of character and self agency.
http://www.hngn.com/articles/12069/20130910/miley-cyrus-wrecking-ball-explained-breakdown-deeper-meaning-behind-singer.htm (http://www.hngn.com/articles/12069/20130910/miley-cyrus-wrecking-ball-explained-breakdown-deeper-meaning-behind-singer.htm)
If you read this it sounds like it is just another break-up song. So nothing to freak out about, but not anything to really write home about either.
I don't get the reactions either way.
Yeah, art is complicated and hard, it's best to not think about it too much. It's just a little girl singing a breakup song, is all.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Bingo.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 06:16:19 AM
Yeah, art is complicated and hard, it's best to not think about it too much. It's just a little girl singing a breakup song, is all.
:lulz:
I'm making my wife watch this when she gets home.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2415843/Miley-Cyrus-spanks-twerking-dwarf-performing-We-Cant-Stop-German-TV.html
A striking performance! Miley Cyrus spanks a twerking dwarf while performing We Can't Stop on German TV
Okay I'm convinced!
So people are getting upset because she is presented as sexually dominant as opposed to a sexualised... I don't know what you would call it.... offering, due to the lack of men?
And the lack of any other people makes it have this weird horror movie feel? Without anyone else in it it directly makes the audience feel like voyeurs which makes people uncomfortable?
Wrecking ball is testicle?
Am I even vaguely in the right area here?
It did cross my mind that there's nobody else in the video, but I rejected the idea because there's been others (the one that ended Billy Squires' career comes to mind, lol) But the others aren't women singing about taking any kind of sexual initiative, so yeah. Sublimninally disturbing to all the people screeching about it. :lulz:
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 08:54:13 AM
Wrecking ball is testicle?
Am I even vaguely in the right area here?
You're in the right forest, wrong tree.
She stole Lady gaga's dick?
The Futa Queen is dead, long live the Futa Queen.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 03:11:37 PM
She stole Lady gaga's dick?
The Futa Queen is dead, long live the Futa Queen.
To physically exhausted to type it out again.
Will try later.
http://teachertomsblog.blogspot.ca/2013/08/miley-cyrus-miley-cyrus-miley-cyrus.html?m=1
QuoteIf you thought that Teacher Tom's blog was the place to get away from reading about Miley Cyrus, you were wrong. For those of you who don't know, the 20-year-old pop star has apparently outraged the entire internet by her performance on MTV's Video Music Awards on Sunday night. I don't really follow popular music any longer so it takes something really big to catch my attention and apparently this was huge! My Twitter feed, which is usually, embarrassingly, overrun with tweets about baseball and breastfeeding suddenly started filling up with comments vilifying and ridiculing "Hannah Montana," a character of whom I am aware since I'm the parent of a daughter who, when she was little, watched the girl's TV show.
So I watched the offensive video. After the first few seconds I started laughing and couldn't stop until it was over. I am, frankly, overjoyed that young people can still outrage old people. Good on her. I mean think about this for a second. I did a little research and discovered that she took the stage after Lady Gaga and before Kanye West: never in anyone's wildest dreams could we have imagined that she would be the most scandalous one on that stage, but being the youngest it was certainly her turn. I keep waiting to read some quote from Kanye accusing her of corrupting someone's morals or something. That would make it about perfect.
I'm not saying that Miley Cyrus is destined to be the next Sinatra, but I am saying that it is perfectly meet, right and salutary that young people outrage their elders, especially when it comes to art. You don't think it's art? Well, most people didn't think what Duchamp was doing was art either. Most people thought the Beatles were just making a bunch of noise. What I saw on that video was a dance, and not even the most sexual dance I've ever seen: that was Madonna's 1984 VMA performance of Like A Virgin. What made me laugh was how joyfully she pulled it off, sticking that tongue out of her mouth like a kind of crazy jester. She reminded me of Keith Moon kicking over his drum set or Ozzie Osborn evoking Satan, just having a grand time sticking a finger in the old folks' eyes.
What outrages me far more than a 20-year-old gyrating her young body, was that she was performing on stage with an older, married guy named Robin Thicke (of whom I've never heard) yet she received at least ninety percent of the criticism. Talk about slut shaming.
Oh, and what about the "example" she's setting for those young girl fans of hers? My own daughter is now 16-years-old, a former fan of her Disney Channel TV show, no longer a little girl. I asked her what she thought about Miley Cyrus. She answered, "I think she's talented and cool. I like her new hair, although I don't really like those top knot things she's doing." And about the VMA video: "It was funny. She's a comedic actress, remember? Of course it's not serious. That's what the VMAs are for. She's a performer trying to entertain people."
So good, she didn't mistake the performance for an instructional video on how to live life. I also don't expect her to start wearing those top knots. As an aspiring artist herself, I hope that she is someday in a position to really outrage her elders, including me.
And I, for one, am glad everybody's talking about her, because it's a little bit of goddamn FUN in a world that currently has a scary and dismal political and financial outlook.
World's a weird place. Let's keep it that way.
Telling people to stop talking about Miley Cyrus because of Syria/PRISM is the new "I don't own a television"
-my buddy HAL PHILLIPS
Quote from: Cramulus on September 11, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Telling people to stop talking about Miley Cyrus because of Syria/PRISM is the new "I don't own a television"
-my buddy HAL PHILLIPS
I got rid of my TV before it was cool to do so. :hipster:
Quote from: Cramulus on September 11, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Telling people to stop talking about Miley Cyrus because of Syria/PRISM is the new "I don't own a television"
-my buddy HAL PHILLIPS
:lulz:
So far, there have been a few common responses via social media and blogs.
1. GAH! SOMEONE STOP THAT MONSTER! SHE'S TELLING KIDS TO FUCK A TOPKNOT! SHE'S MAKING HERSELF AVAILABLE FOR TEH SEXXORZ, BUT THERE'S NO GUY! I CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS!!!11
2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
3. I am far too sophisticated to issue an opinion on this sort of plebian activity.
4. STOP DISTRACTING US FROM OUR UPCOMING WAR PORN.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 04:21:02 PM
So far, there have been a few common responses via social media and blogs.
1. GAH! SOMEONE STOP THAT MONSTER! SHE'S TELLING KIDS TO FUCK A TOPKNOT! SHE'S MAKING HERSELF AVAILABLE FOR TEH SEXXORZ, BUT THERE'S NO GUY! I CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS!!!11
2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
3. I am far too sophisticated to issue an opinion on this sort of plebian activity.
4. STOP DISTRACTING US FROM OUR UPCOMING WAR PORN.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: pretty much sums it up.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 11, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Telling people to stop talking about Miley Cyrus because of Syria/PRISM is the new "I don't own a television"
-my buddy HAL PHILLIPS
I got rid of my TV before it was cool to do so. :hipster:
If by "getting rid of my TV" meant emptying your Bisley into it.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 11, 2013, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 04:16:14 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 11, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Telling people to stop talking about Miley Cyrus because of Syria/PRISM is the new "I don't own a television"
-my buddy HAL PHILLIPS
I got rid of my TV before it was cool to do so. :hipster:
If by "getting rid of my TV" meant emptying your Bisley into it.
Also, laptops.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
My wife wants to watch it a few more times to analyze it.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
Takes the fangs out of her. Makes her harmless.
It is ESPECIALLY fascinating how many people seem to want to strip her of her agency when the message of the songs that have been criticized so far are entirely about her control and responsibility, on a project she has been vocal about her pride in having complete creative control over.
NO YOU DON'T MILEY, YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE GIRL AND A PAWN OF MEN, RIGHT? PLEASE TELL ME I'M RIGHT I NEED TO BE RIGHT OH GOD THE WORLD IS SCARY I CAN'T.
:lol:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
Takes the fangs out of her. Makes her harmless.
That is a load of douchebaggery right there.
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 11, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
My wife wants to watch it a few more times to analyze it.
:lulz: If she wants to go shopping right afterwards, make sure she gets the silicone-based lube.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:10:42 PM
It is ESPECIALLY fascinating how many people seem to want to strip her of her agency when the message of the songs that have been criticized so far are entirely about her control and responsibility, on a project she has been vocal about her pride in having complete creative control over.
NO YOU DON'T MILEY, YOU'RE JUST A LITTLE GIRL AND A PAWN OF MEN, RIGHT? PLEASE TELL ME I'M RIGHT I NEED TO BE RIGHT OH GOD THE WORLD IS SCARY I CAN'T.
:lol:
:lulz: Precisely.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:12:56 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 11, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
My wife wants to watch it a few more times to analyze it.
:lulz: If she wants to go shopping right afterwards, make sure she gets the silicone-based lube.
:lulz:
There is nothing to say in response to that because she would knife me in my sleep.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 03:11:37 PM
She stole Lady gaga's dick?
The Futa Queen is dead, long live the Futa Queen.
To physically exhausted to type it out again.
Will try later.
Nope, guess I still don't get it.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 03:57:34 AM
http://www.hngn.com/articles/12069/20130910/miley-cyrus-wrecking-ball-explained-breakdown-deeper-meaning-behind-singer.htm (http://www.hngn.com/articles/12069/20130910/miley-cyrus-wrecking-ball-explained-breakdown-deeper-meaning-behind-singer.htm)
If you read this it sounds like it is just another break-up song. So nothing to freak out about, but not anything to really write home about either.
I don't get the reactions either way.
I think you didn't get why gendered toys were a thing, either. This might be something you need to look into when you have free time and no head colds or sleep deficiency.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 10:33:28 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 03:11:37 PM
She stole Lady gaga's dick?
The Futa Queen is dead, long live the Futa Queen.
To physically exhausted to type it out again.
Will try later.
Nope, guess I still don't get it.
Okay.
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star)
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
All, pop stars are products. Everyone knows the "boy bands" were completely contrived and packaged.
Fuck, it applies to rock bands too. Black Sabbath only got all spooky and gloomy when they figured out it would sell records. Before that they were just a hippy, blues band. Same with Judas Priest.
I dunno, what if it's spot on though? Miley Cyrus has been a packaged product for most of her career. This would be pretty much par for the course in that regard. Not because she's a girl, because she's pop. That's what record companies do with pop, to make it pop-ular.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
She is still horrifying people deliberately, this was posted to reddit a few weeks back
http://www.sineadoconnor.com/sineads-wank-bank/
And got a lot of rage that I couldn't understand. If a lad posts it you will get a response like 1)Agree 2)Disagree 3)agree etc. if a girl does it she is a whore.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
Sinead's version was more vulnerability = sexy and/or avant garde. Miley's is more I don't care what you think is sexy or proper because this is what I think of your whole stupid system of how various types of women should be portrayed in media.
ETA: Maybe not quite that but along the lines of "This unspoken code of what I must do to be acceptably successful and famous is bullshit, I'm going to do it this way and watch you all squirm."
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
No, she didn't do this. The way it is different has everything to do with the level of aggression and responsibility. It may seem like a minor difference, but it is not. "Nothing Compared 2 U" was a naked vulnerable bereft woman. "Wrecking Ball" is a naked aggressively sexual woman taking full responsibility for her part in ending a destructive relationship. The dialogue is different, the imagery is different, the only similarity is a naked woman.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on September 11, 2013, 10:58:46 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
Sinead's version was more vulnerability = sexy and/or avant garde. Miley's is more I don't care what you think is sexy or proper because this is what I think of your whole stupid system of how various types of women should be portrayed in media.
ETA: Maybe not quite that but along the lines of "This unspoken code of what I must do to be acceptably successful and famous is bullshit, I'm going to do it this way and watch you all squirm."
But she seems to be going along with the unspoken code of doing something "controversial" to get eyeballs and go viral. To me, this is her just milking the current pop paradigm for all it's worth, granted doing it very well. I really don't see how she is really rebelling against anything. Seems like going with the flow to me.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star)
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
All, pop stars are products. Everyone knows the "boy bands" were completely contrived and packaged.
Fuck, it applies to rock bands too. Black Sabbath only got all spooky and gloomy when they figured out it would sell records. Before that they were just a hippy, blues band. Same with Judas Priest.
I dunno, what if it's spot on though? Miley Cyrus has been a packaged product for most of her career. This would be pretty much par for the course in that regard. Not because she's a girl, because she's pop. That's what record companies do with pop, to make it pop-ular.
I've already addressed this. She is a product of marketing, and she is doing her own marketing. She is her own product. The ultimate responsibility for her art still lies with her, no matter how much people try to make her a possession of men.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on September 11, 2013, 10:58:46 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
Sinead's version was more vulnerability = sexy and/or avant garde. Miley's is more I don't care what you think is sexy or proper because this is what I think of your whole stupid system of how various types of women should be portrayed in media.
ETA: Maybe not quite that but along the lines of "This unspoken code of what I must do to be acceptably successful and famous is bullshit, I'm going to do it this way and watch you all squirm."
Yep. And that's what's getting so much pushback from people.
I haven't actually seen the video yet, but I'm loving this discussion.
Thanks!
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on September 11, 2013, 10:58:46 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:50:28 PM
Sinead O'Connor did this in the late 80's. "Nothing Compares to You."
Just her in the video, "naked" and raw emotionally.
And it grabbed people by the throats.
So it isn't new. Miley, or someone, just had to dress it up more to get attention because it is the era we are in.
Sinead's version was more vulnerability = sexy and/or avant garde. Miley's is more I don't care what you think is sexy or proper because this is what I think of your whole stupid system of how various types of women should be portrayed in media.
ETA: Maybe not quite that but along the lines of "This unspoken code of what I must do to be acceptably successful and famous is bullshit, I'm going to do it this way and watch you all squirm."
But she seems to be going along with the unspoken code of doing something "controversial" to get eyeballs and go viral. To me, this is her just milking the current pop paradigm for all it's worth, granted doing it very well. I really don't see how she is really rebelling against anything. Seems like going with the flow to me.
She's ALSO doing this. And doing it brilliantly.
I dunno, the song was written by others, the video was directed by others. Other than her being in it and singing it I'm not seeing anything that says this is all her vision. If someone has links that talk about that I'd be curious to read them.
And this isn't a gender thing. Again, I assume that all of the make pop stars are just as contrived and packaged as the female ones. I mean, hello, Bieber. It just seems along the same lines of all the other young pop stars. They get to a certain age and they need to do something "edgy" to prove they aren't kids anymore. I really don't see how this is any different than all (male and female) who came before her.
I believe I posted the interview in the other Miley Cyrus thread. She was talking about how this is the first time she has been in total control of a project, had a hard time getting funding for her video, etc.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 11:12:38 PM
I dunno, the song was written by others, the video was directed by others.
We know. You have made your mind up. I think that's pretty clear.
I am convinced. Young Ms Cyrus should either follow the formula, or starve for her art.
And at all costs, she should SHUT UP.
She IS (IMO) following the formula, that's my point.
I'm leaving this conversation, now. Mostly because I'm getting just a little sick and tired of having to repeat the same things over and over again to cultural snobs who have their heads jammed entirely up their 4th point of contact, with not only no INTEREST in looking at what might be going on, but an AVERSION to it, because the lady in question didn't SHUT UP and play the corporate game by THE RULES.
The irony level of hearing how that last bit makes her JUST ANOTHER VANILLA POP STAR is of ASTRONOMIC LEVELS, and would actually be FUNNY if the static in this thread wasn't ACTUALLY just based on making sure that CERTAIN PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY DESERVE, or at least ACKNOWLEDGE THE MIGHTY PENII OF THE GUARDIANS OF WHAT IS CONSIDERED CULTURE.
EEET EEES ALL
SO BORRRRRING!
Fuck off. Wankers.
TGRR,
Sick of this fucking game.
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
I've watched both her VMA thing and the video referenced ITT a few times now. Just not seeing anything that makes her any different than the Madonnas, Spears, and Gagas, who frankly, paved the way for her. If that makes me a "cultural snob" sobeit.
Why does it matter that she is using shock and horror to get attention and make sales? Why does it matter that she is paying others to write the lyrics, do the musical arrangements, direct the shoots? Why does her shit have to be extremely radically different from other women popstars to have meaning?
This woman evidently has some manner of vision, has the means, financially and other wise, to pay for professional assistance in realizing her vision, even if all it is being shocking for the purpose of being shocking and getting more money.
Or is this just some affected cynical snobbery?
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 12:18:56 AM
Why does it matter that she is using shock and horror to get attention and make sales? Why does it matter that she is paying others to write the lyrics, do the musical arrangements, direct the shoots? Why does her shit have to be extremely radically different from other women popstars to have meaning?
This woman evidently has some manner of vision, has the means, financially and other wise, to pay for professional assistance in realizing her vision, even if all it is being shocking for the purpose of being shocking and getting more money.
Or is this just some affected cynical snobbery?
You are making my point for me. She isn't different from other women pop stars. She's playing the same game all the others played before her. And yes, she is playing it very well as evident by breaking that record of most views. But I don't see anything particularly "arty" in her vision compared to other pop-stars as has been suggested by others.
And honestly, I don't even see how anything she has done can be considered "shocking".
It's shocking because she was a Disney 'princess' and has basically said "Fuck all of you, I'm tired of being told what to do and how to act. I'm doing my own thing now."
And at this point that thing seems to be distancing herself as far from the wholesome Hanna Montana stuff as she can.
And I can honestly say that I'm loving this new Miley.
But Britney Spears did the same thing. Including using "aggressive sexuality". How is Miley any different?
I don't think explaining it again will help, but perhaps if you want to know you might go through the thread and see if you can spot anything you missed the first time. I do that often when I feel like I'm not seeing something other people are seeing.
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
Well, it's like this: Nigel brought up several points. Those points were ignored. This is not entirely unexpected, on account of 2 things:
1. Nigel brought them up, and
2. She unreasonably expected people to stop sneering for 10 seconds and examine what she had to say, and maybe even for 3 minutes 14 seconds to examine the video in question. What Nigel, of course, doesn't even CONSIDER is that if we stop sneering at "pop culture" even for that long, EVEN in the interests of examining what MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY be the biggest MIND FUCK since p-funk shuffled off stage left, why, we'll lose our seniority down at the local Coffee & Wine Bar, and they'll take our Brad Pitt hats away. We might even lose our tallbike licenses. She's totally fucking unreasonable. She FAILS to REALIZE that this sort of shit is REFLEXIVE, and we have about as much control over it as we do over our MIGHTY PENISES. Mine, for example, is 3 feet long and beats up the neighbor once a week. Anyway.
...All hyperbole aside, there is something hilarious going on here, and I'd expect just a LITTLE BIT MORE than CASUAL, SNEERING DISMISSAL from a board full of Discordians. That's MY Discordia, though, and results may - as always - vary.
The really interesting thing here is that everyone IMMEDIATELY has to scream THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, for the same reason many people - myself included - AUTOMATICALLY dismiss any good news as "bait for suckers". It's a SUBSTITUTE FOR THINKING. It's the uniform jacket so tight around our necks that we all involuntarily SHIT OURSELVES, and then congratulate ourselves on our scatalogical OUTLANDISHNESS.
Wait. Scratch all that. Nigel is the cancer that is killing PD, and Miley Cyrus is the same old shit microwaved to room temperature and dished out in pre-sized portions, and anyone who says anything different is just being contrary.
BURP.
Mind Fuck? Really? I don't see it at all. She isn't the first pop star to do outlandish stuff at the VMAs and she isn't the first young pop star to grow up and use aggressive sexuality to distance herself from her pop-princess era.
I mean, I guess she's the first one to lick a sledgehammer and ride a wreckingball naked. Which I guess is interesting. I'm not sure it rises to "mind fuck" though. Who's mind is she fucking exactly?
I think what makes this particular incarnation of the innocent little girl to pop nympho cycle unique is that Miley seems to be driving it herself.
A lot of child stars are pressured to sex up their acts gradually over time, either by crazy parents, or by the pressure to remain relevant -- but I don't get the sense that Billy Rae is the one pushing her to descend into the underworld like Ishtar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar#Descent_into_the_underworld), shedding her treasure as she goes -- his comments actually seem very supportive.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 12, 2013, 01:38:02 AM
I think what makes this particular incarnation of the innocent little girl to pop nympho cycle unique is that Miley seems to be driving it herself.
And she's doing a brilliant parody of it as well, with a couple of really funny "meme short circuits" embedded in it, and...
...Uh, what am I saying? Personally, I won't listen to anything less than Miles Davis on wax, while I drink elephant-turd coffee and leaf through F Scott Fitzgerald novels.
Anything less would be pedestrian.
\
:snob:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:38:56 AM
But Britney Spears did the same thing. Including using "aggressive sexuality". How is Miley any different?
Britney was always shown as
sexy, even when presented as sexually aggressive. Her image was always designed to be desirable. Sexually aggressive, yes, but in an unmistakably "you want a piece of this" way.
Miley's VMA performance was
gross. Not "a bit too over-the-top," because pop music sexualization loves over-the-top. She ditched the part where she was supposed to make her sexual objectification look hot.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:43:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:38:56 AM
But Britney Spears did the same thing. Including using "aggressive sexuality". How is Miley any different?
Britney was always shown as sexy, even when presented as sexually aggressive. Her image was always designed to be desirable. Sexually aggressive, yes, but in an unmistakably "you want a piece of this" way.
Miley's VMA performance was gross. Not "a bit too over-the-top," because pop music sexualization loves over-the-top. She ditched the part where she was supposed to make her sexual objectification look hot.
Okay, Mac. Hand over the ukelele. YOU'RE OUT OF THE CLUB!
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:45:16 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:43:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:38:56 AM
But Britney Spears did the same thing. Including using "aggressive sexuality". How is Miley any different?
Britney was always shown as sexy, even when presented as sexually aggressive. Her image was always designed to be desirable. Sexually aggressive, yes, but in an unmistakably "you want a piece of this" way.
Miley's VMA performance was gross. Not "a bit too over-the-top," because pop music sexualization loves over-the-top. She ditched the part where she was supposed to make her sexual objectification look hot.
Okay, Mac. Hand over the ukelele. YOU'RE OUT OF THE CLUB!
:lulz:
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I never thought I'd ever see Poe's Law apply to music. Seriously.
:lol:
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
It's more like watching someone take a formula for something, and leave ONE thing out. Something that isn't immediately recognizable...But it jangles and bugs you until you see it. Then you shit bricks.
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you
tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story
wrong. She's messed up the
good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 12:18:56 AM
Why does it matter that she is using shock and horror to get attention and make sales? Why does it matter that she is paying others to write the lyrics, do the musical arrangements, direct the shoots? Why does her shit have to be extremely radically different from other women popstars to have meaning?
This woman evidently has some manner of vision, has the means, financially and other wise, to pay for professional assistance in realizing her vision, even if all it is being shocking for the purpose of being shocking and getting more money.
Or is this just some affected cynical snobbery?
You are making my point for me. She isn't different from other women pop stars. She's playing the same game all the others played before her. And yes, she is playing it very well as evident by breaking that record of most views. But I don't see anything particularly "arty" in her vision compared to other pop-stars as has been suggested by others.
And honestly, I don't even see how anything she has done can be considered "shocking".
And you missed mine, like you've missed Nigel's and TGGR's.
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
But it's just some dumb female popstar. So it's obviously not art. I mean she's trying to make money.
:judge:
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 02:03:24 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
But it's just some dumb female popstar. So it's obviously not art. I mean she's trying to make money.
:judge:
A PROPER artist starves in a garret.
\
:snob:
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 02:03:24 AM
But it's just some dumb female popstar. So it's obviously not art. I mean she's trying to make money.
:judge:
...said the paint thinner. :lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:10:57 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
Well, it's like this: Nigel brought up several points. Those points were ignored. This is not entirely unexpected, on account of 2 things:
1. Nigel brought them up, and
2. She unreasonably expected people to stop sneering for 10 seconds and examine what she had to say, and maybe even for 3 minutes 14 seconds to examine the video in question. What Nigel, of course, doesn't even CONSIDER is that if we stop sneering at "pop culture" even for that long, EVEN in the interests of examining what MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY be the biggest MIND FUCK since p-funk shuffled off stage left, why, we'll lose our seniority down at the local Coffee & Wine Bar, and they'll take our Brad Pitt hats away. We might even lose our tallbike licenses. She's totally fucking unreasonable. She FAILS to REALIZE that this sort of shit is REFLEXIVE, and we have about as much control over it as we do over our MIGHTY PENISES. Mine, for example, is 3 feet long and beats up the neighbor once a week. Anyway.
...All hyperbole aside, there is something hilarious going on here, and I'd expect just a LITTLE BIT MORE than CASUAL, SNEERING DISMISSAL from a board full of Discordians. That's MY Discordia, though, and results may - as always - vary.
The really interesting thing here is that everyone IMMEDIATELY has to scream THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, for the same reason many people - myself included - AUTOMATICALLY dismiss any good news as "bait for suckers". It's a SUBSTITUTE FOR THINKING. It's the uniform jacket so tight around our necks that we all involuntarily SHIT OURSELVES, and then congratulate ourselves on our scatalogical OUTLANDISHNESS.
Wait. Scratch all that. Nigel is the cancer that is killing PD, and Miley Cyrus is the same old shit microwaved to room temperature and dished out in pre-sized portions, and anyone who says anything different is just being contrary.
BURP.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Hot damn, you done got a case of the Holies™ again.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 02:25:37 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:10:57 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
Well, it's like this: Nigel brought up several points. Those points were ignored. This is not entirely unexpected, on account of 2 things:
1. Nigel brought them up, and
2. She unreasonably expected people to stop sneering for 10 seconds and examine what she had to say, and maybe even for 3 minutes 14 seconds to examine the video in question. What Nigel, of course, doesn't even CONSIDER is that if we stop sneering at "pop culture" even for that long, EVEN in the interests of examining what MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY be the biggest MIND FUCK since p-funk shuffled off stage left, why, we'll lose our seniority down at the local Coffee & Wine Bar, and they'll take our Brad Pitt hats away. We might even lose our tallbike licenses. She's totally fucking unreasonable. She FAILS to REALIZE that this sort of shit is REFLEXIVE, and we have about as much control over it as we do over our MIGHTY PENISES. Mine, for example, is 3 feet long and beats up the neighbor once a week. Anyway.
...All hyperbole aside, there is something hilarious going on here, and I'd expect just a LITTLE BIT MORE than CASUAL, SNEERING DISMISSAL from a board full of Discordians. That's MY Discordia, though, and results may - as always - vary.
The really interesting thing here is that everyone IMMEDIATELY has to scream THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, for the same reason many people - myself included - AUTOMATICALLY dismiss any good news as "bait for suckers". It's a SUBSTITUTE FOR THINKING. It's the uniform jacket so tight around our necks that we all involuntarily SHIT OURSELVES, and then congratulate ourselves on our scatalogical OUTLANDISHNESS.
Wait. Scratch all that. Nigel is the cancer that is killing PD, and Miley Cyrus is the same old shit microwaved to room temperature and dished out in pre-sized portions, and anyone who says anything different is just being contrary.
BURP.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Hot damn, you done got a case of the Holies™ again.
Yeah, well, I think I done pissed people off. :(
I'm just trying to MAKE MY POINT. Or maybe GET SOME SLEEP. I'm not trying to get all over anyone's ass.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:27:48 AM
Yeah, well, I think I done pissed people off. :(
I'm just trying to MAKE MY POINT. Or maybe GET SOME SLEEP. I'm not trying to get all over anyone's ass.
But their ass is IN THE WAY. Blocking my view of the funny shit.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 12, 2013, 01:38:02 AM
I think what makes this particular incarnation of the innocent little girl to pop nympho cycle unique is that Miley seems to be driving it herself.
This.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:40:52 AM
And she's doing a brilliant parody of it as well, with a couple of really funny "meme short circuits" embedded in it, and...
And this.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:43:50 AM
Miley's VMA performance was gross. Not "a bit too over-the-top," because pop music sexualization loves over-the-top. She ditched the part where she was supposed to make her sexual objectification look hot.
AND THIS.
And a whole bunch of what all of y'all said after.
You can't trust them Nigels.
Not even Niley Cygel.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:29:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:27:48 AM
Yeah, well, I think I done pissed people off. :(
I'm just trying to MAKE MY POINT. Or maybe GET SOME SLEEP. I'm not trying to get all over anyone's ass.
But their ass is IN THE WAY. Blocking my view of the funny shit.
And this is why Baby Jesus gave you ENGINEER BOOTS. To help shift that ass out of your face. To help clear the air, the old-fashioned way. Because we're an old-fashioned organization. Who are we?
(FIRST ASSHOLE TO SAY "JAMES HETFIELD" GETS IT. GOOD & HARD.)
Anyway, basically the fact that some folks don't understand that the parking meter article is satire doesn't make the article unfunny. It just isn't funny TO THEM, which is probably related to why they didn't get it in the first place.
Quote from: Alty on September 12, 2013, 02:31:15 AM
You can't trust them Nigels.
Not even Niley Cygel.
:lulz:
The funny thing is, it really is the little things. Everyone's talking about this and it isn't like she turned convention on its ear. She did all the same things, she just did them unsexy. It's sort of like the upscale store down the street from me hiring young black men to fill customer service positions (and if you don't know how unusual that is here, you've never been to Portland); it's just a little thing. But it irrevocably shifts the paradigm because all of a sudden OH SHIT EVERYBODY'S LOOKING. It subtly changes the narrative from "there are no black people in Portland" to "Why aren't other stores in Portland hiring black people?"
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 02:40:54 AM
Quote from: Alty on September 12, 2013, 02:31:15 AM
You can't trust them Nigels.
Not even Niley Cygel.
:lulz:
The funny thing is, it really is the little things. Everyone's talking about this and it isn't like she turned convention on its ear. She did all the same things, she just did them unsexy. It's sort of like the upscale store down the street from me hiring young black men to fill customer service positions (and if you don't know how unusual that is here, you've never been to Portland); it's just a little thing. But it irrevocably shifts the paradigm because all of a sudden OH SHIT EVERYBODY'S LOOKING. It changes the narrative from "there are no black people in Portland" to "Why aren't other stores in Portland hiring black people?"
Yep. Like I said, it's the one missing ingredient that makes it all horrible and wrong.
And hilarious.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:31:36 AM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:29:55 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:27:48 AM
Yeah, well, I think I done pissed people off. :(
I'm just trying to MAKE MY POINT. Or maybe GET SOME SLEEP. I'm not trying to get all over anyone's ass.
But their ass is IN THE WAY. Blocking my view of the funny shit.
And this is why Baby Jesus gave you ENGINEER BOOTS. To help shift that ass out of your face. To help clear the air, the old-fashioned way. Because we're an old-fashioned organization. Who are we?
(FIRST ASSHOLE TO SAY "JAMES HETFIELD" GETS IT. GOOD & HARD.)
We're the people who are laughing at the jokes you don't get. We're the people who are here to rub their noses in the same shit they've been stepping in all along and screaming, "GOOD DOG! HAVE SOME MORE!"
Who are we?
You know, I watched the music video once to be able to participate in the conversation.
I just watched it again, and I felt something that was sort of like laughter, but much deeper in my guts than usual.
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 02:46:03 AM
Feels like Eris.
:eek:
:fap:
"This is what we do. Every time. Some of us try to DO IT BETTER and some of us try to DO IT WEIRDER. I try to show how FUCKING DUMB IT IS that this is WHAT WE DO."
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:42:17 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 02:40:54 AM
Quote from: Alty on September 12, 2013, 02:31:15 AM
You can't trust them Nigels.
Not even Niley Cygel.
:lulz:
The funny thing is, it really is the little things. Everyone's talking about this and it isn't like she turned convention on its ear. She did all the same things, she just did them unsexy. It's sort of like the upscale store down the street from me hiring young black men to fill customer service positions (and if you don't know how unusual that is here, you've never been to Portland); it's just a little thing. But it irrevocably shifts the paradigm because all of a sudden OH SHIT EVERYBODY'S LOOKING. It changes the narrative from "there are no black people in Portland" to "Why aren't other stores in Portland hiring black people?"
Yep. Like I said, it's the one missing ingredient that makes it all horrible and wrong.
And hilarious.
Of the few people that get it: we are entertained.
Of the majority that are outraged, or hipsterly blase : They are enjoying their outrage/hipster porn from being trolled to hell.
In either case, she has reached a massive audience, people are watching her videos and listening to her music, even if they HATE IT.
/Especially/ if they hate it. She won, she done good at art.
Young woman clearly having the time of her life. Must be either inappropriate or mundane. She's most likely being told what to do by a bunch of men at the record label. Couldn't possibly be anything else. Could it? Oh god please don't let it be anything else...
:lulz: Yep yep yep.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What,
exactly, don't you agree with?
-
Quote
Yeah, well, I think I done pissed people off. :(
I'm just trying to MAKE MY POINT. Or maybe GET SOME SLEEP. I'm not trying to get all over anyone's ass.
Not pissed off, US mere mortals have to sleep some times, we don't all have the stamina to stay up all night posting, besides anything I would post at 1 am would be so muddled it wouldn't be worth reading, so much like anything else I post through the course of the day.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:10:57 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
Well, it's like this: Nigel brought up several points. Those points were ignored. This is not entirely unexpected, on account of 2 things:
1. Nigel brought them up, and
2. She unreasonably expected people to stop sneering for 10 seconds and examine what she had to say, and maybe even for 3 minutes 14 seconds to examine the video in question. What Nigel, of course, doesn't even CONSIDER is that if we stop sneering at "pop culture" even for that long, EVEN in the interests of examining what MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY be the biggest MIND FUCK since p-funk shuffled off stage left, why, we'll lose our seniority down at the local Coffee & Wine Bar, and they'll take our Brad Pitt hats away. We might even lose our tallbike licenses. She's totally fucking unreasonable. She FAILS to REALIZE that this sort of shit is REFLEXIVE, and we have about as much control over it as we do over our MIGHTY PENISES. Mine, for example, is 3 feet long and beats up the neighbor once a week. Anyway.
Yes, first time I watched it I couldn't see any difference between this and any other pretty girl dancing naked video. Obviously there is something more hence you know, me actually ASKING questions about it.
I would love to be able to sneer at people about culture, that would be possible if i read anything without people in capes in it, or listened to something that isn't bad synth from the 80ies. I know fuck all about culture. I don't pretend that I know any more then I do.
Quote
...All hyperbole aside, there is something hilarious going on here, and I'd expect just a LITTLE BIT MORE than CASUAL, SNEERING DISMISSAL from a board full of Discordians. That's MY Discordia, though, and results may - as always - vary.
The really interesting thing here is that everyone IMMEDIATELY has to scream THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, for the same reason many people - myself included - AUTOMATICALLY dismiss any good news as "bait for suckers". It's a SUBSTITUTE FOR THINKING. It's the uniform jacket so tight around our necks that we all involuntarily SHIT OURSELVES, and then congratulate ourselves on our scatalogical OUTLANDISHNESS.
Wait. Scratch all that. Nigel is the cancer that is killing PD, and Miley Cyrus is the same old shit microwaved to room temperature and dished out in pre-sized portions, and anyone who says anything different is just being contrary.
BURP.
You can conflate what I said with what other people have said but I wont really be able to respond to it, what with me not thinking, doing or saying those things. All I'm going to be able to do is shrug.
I found the video generic at first, I watched it a few more times and I did get that it is uncomfortable. I've read the posts here and I kind of get the sexual assertive bit but not why it makes the video uncomfortable.
So far the clues I have are:
Lyrics that invoke images of sexual violence, be it physical or emotional. If it was a dude singing it I'd be very wary of him being a creeper.
Horror movie aesthetic: No other people, main character is sexually aggressive. The fact that there are no other people makes the viewer feel like a voyeur, the sexual aggression is personal to each and every viewer.
Weird phallic imaginary:
(http://buzzworthy.mtv.com//wp-content/uploads/buzz/2013/09/miley_cyrus_wrecking_ball_hero.jpg)
Why is hers bigger then mine?
The clues might be staring me right in the face but I don't see it. She is staring at me right in the face, that's uncomfortable.
I get that its not like other pretty girl videos because its horribly uncomfortable without being windowlicker obvious. What I don't get is why its uncomfortable or the purpose.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What, exactly, don't you agree with?
This:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Because of this:
Quote
"Miley loved the idea of going naked because it suits the song," the source continued. "She's showing her naked emotions. It's her vulnerable side and it's not something she shows very often, so having nudity made sense."
A tweet (https://twitter.com/search?q=wrecking%20ball&src=typd) has been surfacing on the Internet that supposedly breaks down the true meaning of the video. It explains that Cyrus was kissing the sledge hammer to represent that she "secretly still loves the pain," she was naked to show how the love destroyed and hurt her and the wrecking ball was symbolic of a destructive love.
According to Hollywood Life the song is very personal to Cyrus (http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/09/09/miley-cyrus-crying-wrecking-ball-video-liam-hemsworth/). A source told the celebrity website that when Richardson wanted her to cry he told her to think about losing Liam Hemsworth and she broke down in tears.
"It was very intense and wasn't an act," the source said. "Even though she was happy and in a good mood, it only took like two seconds for her to start crying."
So it really has nothing to do with a woman expressing sexual aggressiveness. It seems to be more about her showing that she is vulnerable after losing a relationship. It isn't some pop-culture troll or mindfuck. It's someone just trying to make a personal statement about love and relationships. Again, why I compare it to Sinead O'Connor who basically akready did it, except even more stripped down, just her, a black backdrop, and a camera.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What, exactly, don't you agree with?
This:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Because of this:
Quote
"Miley loved the idea of going naked because it suits the song," the source continued. "She's showing her naked emotions. It's her vulnerable side and it's not something she shows very often, so having nudity made sense."
A tweet (https://twitter.com/search?q=wrecking%20ball&src=typd) has been surfacing on the Internet that supposedly breaks down the true meaning of the video. It explains that Cyrus was kissing the sledge hammer to represent that she "secretly still loves the pain," she was naked to show how the love destroyed and hurt her and the wrecking ball was symbolic of a destructive love.
According to Hollywood Life the song is very personal to Cyrus (http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/09/09/miley-cyrus-crying-wrecking-ball-video-liam-hemsworth/). A source told the celebrity website that when Richardson wanted her to cry he told her to think about losing Liam Hemsworth and she broke down in tears.
"It was very intense and wasn't an act," the source said. "Even though she was happy and in a good mood, it only took like two seconds for her to start crying."
So it really has nothing to do with a woman expressing sexual aggressiveness. It seems to be more about her showing that she is vulnerable after losing a relationship. It isn't some pop-culture troll or mindfuck. It's someone just trying to make a personal statement about love and relationships. Again, why I compare it to Sinead O'Connor who basically akready did it, except even more stripped down, just her, a black backdrop, and a camera.
Not a bad analysis.
But the funny for me is in the reaction of other people.
- The way almost all responses done by males imply that these responders are incapable of processing the concept of a strong independent woman in popular culture.
- The outrage at her act on the VMA when the only thing she did was take the sexy out of it. Apparantly it is the VMA goal to be as sexy as possible in the most degrading and unsexy context as possible. Miley merely took the sexy out, thereby clarifying to the audience what a horrible world these hollywood types live in. Since the audience uses hollywood to define their self-image this causes huge cognitive dissonance.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 12:18:56 AM
Why does it matter that she is using shock and horror to get attention and make sales? Why does it matter that she is paying others to write the lyrics, do the musical arrangements, direct the shoots? Why does her shit have to be extremely radically different from other women popstars to have meaning?
This woman evidently has some manner of vision, has the means, financially and other wise, to pay for professional assistance in realizing her vision, even if all it is being shocking for the purpose of being shocking and getting more money.
Or is this just some affected cynical snobbery?
You are making my point for me. She isn't different from other women pop stars. She's playing the same game all the others played before her. And yes, she is playing it very well as evident by breaking that record of most views. But I don't see anything particularly "arty" in her vision compared to other pop-stars as has been suggested by others.
And honestly, I don't even see how anything she has done can be considered "shocking".
It gets harder to shock people as time passes. So IMO she's done it better than all the previous ones, and with the handicap of not using religion.
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 09:11:24 AM
So far the clues I have are:
Lyrics that invoke images of sexual violence, be it physical or emotional. If it was a dude singing it I'd be very wary of him being a creeper.
That's kind of the point. Sexy girl isn't sexy, she's THAT GUY.
QuoteI get that its not like other pretty girl videos because its horribly uncomfortable without being windowlicker obvious. What I don't get is why its uncomfortable or the purpose.
Not sure what the purpose is, but the reason its uncomfortable is that the standard meme of the pop girl video is
broken. It's not functioning correctly, and instead of seeing a piece of meat, the audience FEELS like a piece of meat.
Quote from: Cain on September 12, 2013, 08:19:43 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 04:21:02 PM
So far, there have been a few common responses via social media and blogs.
1. GAH! SOMEONE STOP THAT MONSTER! SHE'S TELLING KIDS TO FUCK A TOPKNOT! SHE'S MAKING HERSELF AVAILABLE FOR TEH SEXXORZ, BUT THERE'S NO GUY! I CAN'T GO ON LIKE THIS!!!11
2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
3. I am far too sophisticated to issue an opinion on this sort of plebian activity.
4. STOP DISTRACTING US FROM OUR UPCOMING WAR PORN.
Um,
I'm in the number 4 category. Well, not so much war porn as "lets try and not have a war, and if you do, I'm going to document each and every one of your failures" porn, but, uh, yeah.
It is somewhat interesting that so many people are interested in what she is doing, but I have to prioritise my interests due to lack of time, and, to be honest, she kinda falls further down on the list than a lot of things. Don't know if that makes me a cultural snob or not, but there it is. Lady Gaga aside, I basically have paid no attention to pop culture since about 2008 anyway(no TV, can't stand most radio), so I'm well out of the loop on these things.
Thing is, you also aren't out there hollering about her 24/7.
Facebook has been nothing short of HILARIOUS. A million people posting ALL DAY about how MILEY CYRUS IS GONNA ALLOW THE WAR BY DISTRACTING EVERYONE FROM IT...But not an actual post of the upcoming war to be seen.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 02:49:14 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 09:11:24 AM
So far the clues I have are:
Lyrics that invoke images of sexual violence, be it physical or emotional. If it was a dude singing it I'd be very wary of him being a creeper.
That's kind of the point. Sexy girl isn't sexy, she's THAT GUY.
QuoteI get that its not like other pretty girl videos because its horribly uncomfortable without being windowlicker obvious. What I don't get is why its uncomfortable or the purpose.
Not sure what the purpose is, but the reason its uncomfortable is that the standard meme of the pop girl video is broken. It's not functioning correctly, and instead of seeing a piece of meat, the audience FEELS like a piece of meat.
What I mean by "broken meme" is that the standard meme SEEMS to be there, and your brain gets all ready for it. Then it doesn't happen, or it happens WRONG. Sort of like puns...Your mind GETS it, but the HAHA part isn't hit, so you are left annoyed. In this case, you are left with a bag of mixed signals that SHOULD be nice and routine.
The only thing that bothers me about the whole mess is that this is the sort of shit WE should have been doing in 2006. Although in a different manner. Maybe.
Quote from: :regret: on September 12, 2013, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What, exactly, don't you agree with?
This:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Because of this:
Quote
"Miley loved the idea of going naked because it suits the song," the source continued. "She's showing her naked emotions. It's her vulnerable side and it's not something she shows very often, so having nudity made sense."
A tweet (https://twitter.com/search?q=wrecking%20ball&src=typd) has been surfacing on the Internet that supposedly breaks down the true meaning of the video. It explains that Cyrus was kissing the sledge hammer to represent that she "secretly still loves the pain," she was naked to show how the love destroyed and hurt her and the wrecking ball was symbolic of a destructive love.
According to Hollywood Life the song is very personal to Cyrus (http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/09/09/miley-cyrus-crying-wrecking-ball-video-liam-hemsworth/). A source told the celebrity website that when Richardson wanted her to cry he told her to think about losing Liam Hemsworth and she broke down in tears.
"It was very intense and wasn't an act," the source said. "Even though she was happy and in a good mood, it only took like two seconds for her to start crying."
So it really has nothing to do with a woman expressing sexual aggressiveness. It seems to be more about her showing that she is vulnerable after losing a relationship. It isn't some pop-culture troll or mindfuck. It's someone just trying to make a personal statement about love and relationships. Again, why I compare it to Sinead O'Connor who basically akready did it, except even more stripped down, just her, a black backdrop, and a camera.
Not a bad analysis.
But the funny for me is in the reaction of other people.
- The way almost all responses done by males imply that these responders are incapable of processing the concept of a strong independent woman in popular culture.
Could you provide some examples of this?
Quote- The outrage at her act on the VMA when the only thing she did was take the sexy out of it. Apparantly it is the VMA goal to be as sexy as possible in the most degrading and unsexy context as possible. Miley merely took the sexy out, thereby clarifying to the audience what a horrible world these hollywood types live in. Since the audience uses hollywood to define their self-image this causes huge cognitive dissonance.
I disagree. The goal of the VMA's has always been to have that one performance that is so over the top that people talk about it the next day. Such as Madonna writhing on the floor singing Like A Virgin, Prince's performance of "Get Off", the one where Madonna kisses Spears and Aguilera, I think there was another one involving Spears and a snake. Oh, I think Madonna had another one for Vogue.
So I see the Miley Cyrus VMA thing pretty much in that spirit. Different dance moves and imagery, sure, but the same goal. To give an outrageous performance everyone talks about the next day.
Also, did she take the sexy out or is she just unsexy? I'm not seeing the deliberate troll/pop culture commentary in that performance. I just see someone saying, let's throw a lot of crazy shit out there so people take notice.
Quote from: tarod on September 12, 2013, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 12, 2013, 12:18:56 AM
Why does it matter that she is using shock and horror to get attention and make sales? Why does it matter that she is paying others to write the lyrics, do the musical arrangements, direct the shoots? Why does her shit have to be extremely radically different from other women popstars to have meaning?
This woman evidently has some manner of vision, has the means, financially and other wise, to pay for professional assistance in realizing her vision, even if all it is being shocking for the purpose of being shocking and getting more money.
Or is this just some affected cynical snobbery?
You are making my point for me. She isn't different from other women pop stars. She's playing the same game all the others played before her. And yes, she is playing it very well as evident by breaking that record of most views. But I don't see anything particularly "arty" in her vision compared to other pop-stars as has been suggested by others.
And honestly, I don't even see how anything she has done can be considered "shocking".
It gets harder to shock people as time passes. So IMO she's done it better than all the previous ones, and with the handicap of not using religion.
How was what she did shocking? I mean, to anyone who isn't a senior citizen and is actually in MTV's viewing demographics? It looked garrish and awkward and awful, but "shocking" was never an adjective that came to mind.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 03:28:12 PM
How was what she did shocking? I mean, to anyone who isn't a senior citizen and is actually in MTV's viewing demographics? It looked garrish and awkward and awful, but "shocking" was never an adjective that came to mind.
Examine every story in every news source, the week following the VMA's. Also every social media comment on every social media platform. It should become obvious that some people were shocked.
They seem to be all over the place honestly. One that focused on the actual song she was performing (which apparently had a drug reference that was censored), one about Cyndi Lauper thinking she is encouraging date rape performing to the "Blurred Lines" song....
to this one which I found very interesting and hadn't thought of at all, but after reading it I can kinda see where the author is coming from:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/miley_cyrus_vma_performance_white_appropriation_of_black_bodies.html
[/size]
[/size]
I've already covered my reasoning and analysis in this thread and the other one, and linking to articles and Facebook posts written by outraged guys isn't really going to prove anything since you can make your own observations on that. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this discussion. You disagree, apparently, about whether Miley Cyrus is deliberately making people uncomfortable as part of her act.
OK.
-
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
I've already covered my reasoning and analysis in this thread and the other one, and linking to articles and Facebook posts written by outraged guys isn't really going to prove anything since you can make your own observations on that. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this discussion. You disagree, apparently, about whether Miley Cyrus is deliberately making people uncomfortable as part of her act.
OK.
Things have to be hammered into their proper places. We can't allow people to run around all unregulated, you know, and we certainly can't admit that they might have the wrong shape for their assigned slot.
Something to note: Functionally, it doesn't matter if Miley thought all this through as a way to subvert the paradigm by role-reversal and peeling the mask back on the tawdry exploitation of the media machine.
She did it anyway. Which kind of makes it more glorious, in a way.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 04:33:17 PM
Something to note: Functionally, it doesn't matter if Miley thought all this through as a way to subvert the paradigm by role-reversal and peeling the mask back on the tawdry exploitation of the media machine.
She did it anyway. Which kind of makes it more glorious, in a way.
The issue here is "denial that it ever happened at all". So we can from this point forward discount the idea of using fractured or incomplete memes as a means of influencing reactions.
Everything is safe again.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
I've already covered my reasoning and analysis in this thread and the other one, and linking to articles and Facebook posts written by outraged guys isn't really going to prove anything since you can make your own observations on that. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this discussion. You disagree, apparently, about whether Miley Cyrus is deliberately making people uncomfortable as part of her act.
OK.
I agree she was intentionally trying to get eyeballs and to have people talk about her the next day (with respect to the VMAs). But that is par for the course if you look at the history of the VMAs.
And certainly the video is the same idea. Get eyeballs and get people to notice you.
But so far I haven't seen anything in anyone's analysis that suggests what she is doing is this big mindfuck or pop-culture troll, any moreso than the Madonnas', Spears', and Gagas' that came before her. I'm not getting why she is being elevated ITT. I mean, I'm not knocking that, You guys really like her, that's cool. Just not seeing this deeper layer y'all seem to see. Seems like typical tactics to get eyeballs and move units.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
I've already covered my reasoning and analysis in this thread and the other one, and linking to articles and Facebook posts written by outraged guys isn't really going to prove anything since you can make your own observations on that. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this discussion. You disagree, apparently, about whether Miley Cyrus is deliberately making people uncomfortable as part of her act.
OK.
I agree she was intentionally trying to get eyeballs and to have people talk about her the next day (with respect to the VMAs). But that is par for the course if you look at the history of the VMAs.
And certainly the video is the same idea. Get eyeballs and get people to notice you.
But so far I haven't seen anything in anyone's analysis that suggests what she is doing is this big mindfuck or pop-culture troll, any moreso than the Madonnas', Spears', and Gagas' that came before her. I'm not getting why she is being elevated ITT. I mean, I'm not knocking that, You guys really like her, that's cool. Just not seeing this deeper layer y'all seem to see. Seems like typical tactics to get eyeballs and move units.
Thread and accompanying idea are now ruined for the people interested in it.
You've achieved your objective. You can move on to the next target now.
I do approve of the idea of bland repetition of the same statement over and over again while disregarding any other point of view, as a means to effectively kill a conversation that others may be enjoying. I think I shall use it myself.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 11, 2013, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 11, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/pop_star)
Ugh.
I hate how condescending it is. I hate the "she's just a product" mentality that gets applied to female pop stars, while male ones are assumed to have creative control and responsibility for their work.
All, pop stars are products. Everyone knows the "boy bands" were completely contrived and packaged.
Fuck, it applies to rock bands too. Black Sabbath only got all spooky and gloomy when they figured out it would sell records. Before that they were just a hippy, blues band. Same with Judas Priest.
I dunno, what if it's spot on though? Miley Cyrus has been a packaged product for most of her career. This would be pretty much par for the course in that regard. Not because she's a girl, because she's pop. That's what record companies do with pop, to make it pop-ular.
She has a long term inside perspective on the product machine. And I'm pretty sure she's lampooning the fuck out of it.
Wouldn't you? How could you NOT? :lol:
So we're only allowed to be in this thread if we completely agree?
Okay.
I'll leave then.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 04:50:49 PM
So we're only allowed to be in this thread if we completely agree?
Okay.
I'll leave then.
YES, THAT'S TOTALLY WHAT I SAID.
UNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!
You are a fucking retard.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 01:10:57 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 11, 2013, 11:52:49 PM
Well, I made an effort, I wont bother any more if I'm just a cultural snob when I try.
Well, it's like this: Nigel brought up several points. Those points were ignored. This is not entirely unexpected, on account of 2 things:
1. Nigel brought them up, and
2. She unreasonably expected people to stop sneering for 10 seconds and examine what she had to say, and maybe even for 3 minutes 14 seconds to examine the video in question. What Nigel, of course, doesn't even CONSIDER is that if we stop sneering at "pop culture" even for that long, EVEN in the interests of examining what MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY be the biggest MIND FUCK since p-funk shuffled off stage left, why, we'll lose our seniority down at the local Coffee & Wine Bar, and they'll take our Brad Pitt hats away. We might even lose our tallbike licenses. She's totally fucking unreasonable. She FAILS to REALIZE that this sort of shit is REFLEXIVE, and we have about as much control over it as we do over our MIGHTY PENISES. Mine, for example, is 3 feet long and beats up the neighbor once a week. Anyway.
...All hyperbole aside, there is something hilarious going on here, and I'd expect just a LITTLE BIT MORE than CASUAL, SNEERING DISMISSAL from a board full of Discordians. That's MY Discordia, though, and results may - as always - vary.
The really interesting thing here is that everyone IMMEDIATELY has to scream THIS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, for the same reason many people - myself included - AUTOMATICALLY dismiss any good news as "bait for suckers". It's a SUBSTITUTE FOR THINKING. It's the uniform jacket so tight around our necks that we all involuntarily SHIT OURSELVES, and then congratulate ourselves on our scatalogical OUTLANDISHNESS.
Wait. Scratch all that. Nigel is the cancer that is killing PD, and Miley Cyrus is the same old shit microwaved to room temperature and dished out in pre-sized portions, and anyone who says anything different is just being contrary.
BURP.
This, this and so much THIS.
And yes, pop icons have attempted "edgy" ever since David Cassidy posed naked in Rolling Stone. Shit, maybe since the Monkees "Head". Maybe before.
But they never went THERE. Cassidy was still "cute". The Monkees were still "zany".
Miley just flat out DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK.
Quote from: stelz on September 12, 2013, 05:02:49 PM
This, this and so much THIS.
And yes, pop icons have attempted "edgy" ever since David Cassidy posed naked in Rolling Stone. Shit, maybe since the Monkees "Head". Maybe before.
But they never went THERE. Cassidy was still "cute". The Monkees were still "zany".
Miley just flat out DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK.
Miley is also a female, of course. We can't have females gaming the system. This is why RWHN is so adamant about the idea that "she's done nothing new". Because she's a she.
That's all there really is to it.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
YES.
Quote from: stelz on September 12, 2013, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
YES.
NOT THE POINT.
She is a female. Nigel is ALSO a female, posting about said female.
This makes RWHN a sad panda. :(
It must be stopped. Failing that, it must be dismissed.
Ok, let's for a moment posit that Miley is in the same cultural geography as Madonna, Xtina, Gaga, et al. Let's just play along with the idea that she's playing with the same tropes as Ke$ha, P!nk, Rhianna, and (at one time, a while back) Katy Perry -- a sexually agressive, self-sufficient agency of Party and Youth. Let's call her the New Flavor of The Month.
But I think everyone here can agree that the NFotM is not always the same flavor, yes? Madonna's "Erotica" is different than Xtina's "Drrrty" is different than P!nk's "You and Your Hand Tonight" is different than Rhianna's "S&M" is different than Perry's "I Kissed a Girl". Each of them sends a separate message, even if it's through some semblance of sexual self-determination.
So, instead of saying Miley is "just doing the same thing as ____", we should be looking at what the message is. And as Roger has pointed out in previous rants and essays, the intent or surface of a message is usually not what is being communicated.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:15:50 PM
Ok, let's for a moment posit that Miley is in the same cultural geography as Madonna, Xtina, Gaga, et al. Let's just play along with the idea that she's playing with the same tropes as Ke$ha, P!nk, Rhianna, and (at one time, a while back) Katy Perry -- a sexually agressive, self-sufficient agency of Party and Youth. Let's call her the New Flavor of The Month.
But I think everyone here can agree that the NFotM is not always the same flavor, yes? Madonna's "Erotica" is different than Xtina's "Drrrty" is different than P!nk's "You and Your Hand Tonight" is different than Rhianna's "S&M" is different than Perry's "I Kissed a Girl". Each of them sends a separate message, even if it's through some semblance of sexual self-determination.
So, instead of saying Miley is "just doing the same thing as ____", we should be looking at what the message is. And as Roger has pointed out in previous rants and essays, the intent or surface of a message is usually not what is being communicated.
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think* The difference between them and her is that it is unpleasant to watch. All the others were aiming to titillate. This is decidedly unattractive.
Madonna and britney could have taken a big shit on the stage, but they didn't because while they went for shock value, they went for shock value someone would want.
*For what its worth, not much
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 03:21:13 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 12, 2013, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 02:02:47 AM
I haven't missed it, I don't agree with it.
What, exactly, don't you agree with?
This:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2013, 03:38:22 AM
Quote from: Kai on September 11, 2013, 03:34:45 AM
Is it the complete lack of men anywhere? Or just other people in general?
DING.
Also, the visuals and the lyrics? She IS the man.
This is why the balance of the outrage is from men. WAY in the back of their brain, they're getting rape panic signals. The screeching outrage all over social media is pretty much based on this.
Because of this:
Quote
"Miley loved the idea of going naked because it suits the song," the source continued. "She's showing her naked emotions. It's her vulnerable side and it's not something she shows very often, so having nudity made sense."
A tweet (https://twitter.com/search?q=wrecking%20ball&src=typd) has been surfacing on the Internet that supposedly breaks down the true meaning of the video. It explains that Cyrus was kissing the sledge hammer to represent that she "secretly still loves the pain," she was naked to show how the love destroyed and hurt her and the wrecking ball was symbolic of a destructive love.
According to Hollywood Life the song is very personal to Cyrus (http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/09/09/miley-cyrus-crying-wrecking-ball-video-liam-hemsworth/). A source told the celebrity website that when Richardson wanted her to cry he told her to think about losing Liam Hemsworth and she broke down in tears.
"It was very intense and wasn't an act," the source said. "Even though she was happy and in a good mood, it only took like two seconds for her to start crying."
So it really has nothing to do with a woman expressing sexual aggressiveness. It seems to be more about her showing that she is vulnerable after losing a relationship. It isn't some pop-culture troll or mindfuck. It's someone just trying to make a personal statement about love and relationships. Again, why I compare it to Sinead O'Connor who basically akready did it, except even more stripped down, just her, a black backdrop, and a camera.
Not a bad analysis.
But the funny for me is in the reaction of other people.
- The way almost all responses done by males imply that these responders are incapable of processing the concept of a strong independent woman in popular culture.
Could you provide some examples of this?
Quote- The outrage at her act on the VMA when the only thing she did was take the sexy out of it. Apparantly it is the VMA goal to be as sexy as possible in the most degrading and unsexy context as possible. Miley merely took the sexy out, thereby clarifying to the audience what a horrible world these hollywood types live in. Since the audience uses hollywood to define their self-image this causes huge cognitive dissonance.
I disagree. The goal of the VMA's has always been to have that one performance that is so over the top that people talk about it the next day. Such as Madonna writhing on the floor singing Like A Virgin, Prince's performance of "Get Off", the one where Madonna kisses Spears and Aguilera, I think there was another one involving Spears and a snake. Oh, I think Madonna had another one for Vogue.
So I see the Miley Cyrus VMA thing pretty much in that spirit. Different dance moves and imagery, sure, but the same goal. To give an outrageous performance everyone talks about the next day.
Also, did she take the sexy out or is she just unsexy? I'm not seeing the deliberate troll/pop culture commentary in that performance. I just see someone saying, let's throw a lot of crazy shit out there so people take notice.
She's lolling her tongue sideways like an overheated Labrador through the whole thing. She knows how to be alluring, she's been drilled in that since childhood. She's taking the sexy out ON PURPOSE.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think I do.
To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow. The sound mix is terrible. She obviously can't hear the band. What's with the tongue Hm. That's....that's not twerking. She's just touching her toes." And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.
I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here. I also dismissed the haters, too. But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued. Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 05:22:11 PM
I think* The difference between them and her is that it is unpleasant to watch. All the others were aiming to titillate. This is decidedly unattractive.
Which was kind of the intent, I think.
1. Take the standard template <anything> that sells on sheer inertia or lack of alternatives.
2. Package a new piece, but leave a crucial bit out. You have to not care what your audience/customers think of you at this point.
3. Run the program. People see the meme, they're conditioned for it, but then it doesn't go in the manner for which they've been conditioned. It goes off the rails. They get upset, and
they don't know why.
4. This is particularly effective in this case, because she's taken the "Disney Girls Gone Wild" idea and then made it fucking
grotesque. People are both disappointed and confused. So they rage out.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 04:41:26 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 12, 2013, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 12, 2013, 04:21:40 PM
I've already covered my reasoning and analysis in this thread and the other one, and linking to articles and Facebook posts written by outraged guys isn't really going to prove anything since you can make your own observations on that. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with this discussion. You disagree, apparently, about whether Miley Cyrus is deliberately making people uncomfortable as part of her act.
OK.
I agree she was intentionally trying to get eyeballs and to have people talk about her the next day (with respect to the VMAs). But that is par for the course if you look at the history of the VMAs.
And certainly the video is the same idea. Get eyeballs and get people to notice you.
But so far I haven't seen anything in anyone's analysis that suggests what she is doing is this big mindfuck or pop-culture troll, any moreso than the Madonnas', Spears', and Gagas' that came before her. I'm not getting why she is being elevated ITT. I mean, I'm not knocking that, You guys really like her, that's cool. Just not seeing this deeper layer y'all seem to see. Seems like typical tactics to get eyeballs and move units.
Thread and accompanying idea are now ruined for the people interested in it.
You've achieved your objective. You can move on to the next target now.
Miley Cyrus promoted to MIND LAz0RZ
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: stelz on September 12, 2013, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
YES.
NOT THE POINT.
She is a female. Nigel is ALSO a female, posting about said female.
This makes RWHN a sad panda. :(
It must be stopped. Failing that, it must be dismissed.
Ah. Gaming the system is a Y chromosome thing in the World According To RWHN. Yes.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think I do.
To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow. The sound mix is terrible. She obviously can't hear the band. What's with the tongue Hm. That's....that's not twerking. She's just touching her toes." And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.
I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here. I also dismissed the haters, too. But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued. Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.
But here's the thing: The intention is almost irrelevant, even if she
specifically planned this. Or not.
The stage was set for the standard "20 year old dancing sexy for 40 year old creeps" (target audience). Then the pedo bears. Then the Beetlejuice thing. Then the INSANELY GROTESQUE BURLESQUE, so to speak. 40 year old creeps do not feel show has delivered. They don't understand it. They start making monkey noises while banging on the keyboard about THAT SLUT, THAT WHORE, THAT DISGUSTING LITTLE TRAMP...As evidenced in the comments on youtube, facebook, etc.
Here's the really nasty part: Rapists tend to say the same things about their victims, when they know or have observed their victims over a long period of time (as opposed to the far more rare stranger rape). They do this to justify - mostly to themselves - their behavior. She was a slut, so what they did didn't matter.
Then extend that just a tiny bit:
1. She's a SLUT AND A WHORE = "worthless".
2. She's just another female shock act = "worthless".
There really isn't a practical difference.
What she was communicating - whether or not she intended to - was "All of my fans are disgusting 40 year old creepers, and I am aware of this. NOW SO ARE THEY."
So, I just realized that this HAS been done before.
Not Madonna and Britney and what have you, because they were still attempting to be sexy even if they failed.
No, this is the act that Amy Sedaris did, with the pop-star twist. This is being GROSS on purpose.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:28:24 PM
2. Package a new piece, but leave a crucial bit out. You have to not care what your audience/customers think of you at this point.
3. Run the program. People see the meme, they're conditioned for it, but then it doesn't go in the manner for which they've been conditioned. It goes off the rails. They get upset, and they don't know why.
I buy that.
And by that logic, microsoft have been trolling their audience for decades.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think I do.
To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow. The sound mix is terrible. She obviously can't hear the band. What's with the tongue Hm. That's....that's not twerking. She's just touching her toes." And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.
I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here. I also dismissed the haters, too. But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued. Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.
But here's the thing: The intention is almost irrelevant, even if she specifically planned this. Or not.
The stage was set for the standard "20 year old dancing sexy for 40 year old creeps" (target audience). Then the pedo bears. Then the Beetlejuice thing. Then the INSANELY GROTESQUE BURLESQUE, so to speak. 40 year old creeps do not feel show has delivered. They don't understand it. They start making monkey noises while banging on the keyboard about THAT SLUT, THAT WHORE, THAT DISGUSTING LITTLE TRAMP...As evidenced in the comments on youtube, facebook, etc.
Here's the really nasty part: Rapists tend to say the same things about their victims, when they know or have observed their victims over a long period of time (as opposed to the far more rare stranger rape). They do this to justify - mostly to themselves - their behavior. She was a slut, so what they did didn't matter.
Then extend that just a tiny bit:
1. She's a SLUT AND A WHORE = "worthless".
2. She's just another female shock act = "worthless".
There really isn't a practical difference.
What she was communicating - whether or not she intended to - was "All of my fans are disgusting 40 year old creepers, and I am aware of this. NOW SO ARE THEY."
I agree, thats exactly the message.
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
You hurt my head with that. You Bastard.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
Someone you would be willing to introduce to the queen?
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/124485/LADY-GAGA.jpg)
And judging by that outfit the picture was taken a few hours before she went out to KILL THE BATMAN.
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 05:52:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
Someone you would be willing to introduce to the queen?
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/124485/LADY-GAGA.jpg)
And judging by that outfit the picture was taken a few hours before she went out to KILL THE BATMAN.
Both sets are expected/required to be "outrageous". The difference is the target audience.
Pink's
U and Ur Hand was NOT aimed at the crowd wanting a teenaged something something.
Contrast that with Britney Spear's
Oops, I did it again.
It's pretty blatant, when you stop and look.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 05:42:11 PM
So, I just realized that this HAS been done before.
Not Madonna and Britney and what have you, because they were still attempting to be sexy even if they failed.
No, this is the act that Amy Sedaris did, with the pop-star twist. This is being GROSS on purpose.
Can I just point out that Amy Sedaris is
FUCKING AWESOME?
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:28:24 PM
2. Package a new piece, but leave a crucial bit out. You have to not care what your audience/customers think of you at this point.
3. Run the program. People see the meme, they're conditioned for it, but then it doesn't go in the manner for which they've been conditioned. It goes off the rails. They get upset, and they don't know why.
I buy that.
And by that logic, microsoft have been trolling their audience for decades.
Can you elaborate? Are you talking about the small but irritating changes in user interfaces of widely used software products over time?
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
You hurt my head with that. You Bastard.
It's Goddamn fascinating, is what it is. Marketing is a fucking insidious thing, because you can't see it if you don't look, and most people won't look. Hell, NOBODY looks all the time.
In fact, people don't WANT to look. They want to get what they expect. Which is why I think this particular set of events has garnered so much hate/anger.
The stage was all set. And then instead of sexytime, they got "circus freak" (at the VMAs), and then "Bend over, buddy, I got my strap on" in Wrecking Ball.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 05:42:11 PM
So, I just realized that this HAS been done before.
Not Madonna and Britney and what have you, because they were still attempting to be sexy even if they failed.
No, this is the act that Amy Sedaris did, with the pop-star twist. This is being GROSS on purpose.
Can I just point out that Amy Sedaris is FUCKING AWESOME?
YES YOU CAN.
I didn't like her stuff until I spent more time reading about
why she did it, and I'm realizing now that the Miley thing was hitting those same buttons in my head. It's GROSS. I don't WANNA look at that. You're totally pretty, why not stop being all GROSS and SHUT UP? Tina Fey does it too, sometimes, but she never took it to the wall as hard as this.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 12, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
You hurt my head with that. You Bastard.
At least you looked. :lulz:
Everyone else was, in one way or another, forced to deflect or change the subject, which I find fucking FASCINATING as hell.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode. And gay men.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
Just adding on. Some queens will dig Britney because ironic train wreck, but they do so at arm's length.
I mean:
"HERE'S HOW THE MANIPULATION IS TARGETED."
Posts immediately afterward:
"Ouch!"
"Here's Lady Gaga being an ass in front of the queen."
"Someone say Amy Sedaris?"
"YES, AMY SEDARIS!"
25% of posts looking at manipulation.
75% of posts quickly looking away from the puppet strings.
And 100% of the posts, the entire set, are from people who are all extremely intelligent.
THERE'S SOMETHING LURKING IN THE WATER, HERE. Gotta find out what it is.
TGRR,
I AM AHAB.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:48:15 PM
In furtherance of that:
Target audience for Justin Beiber, boy-bands, etc: 11-15 year old girls.
Given. However:
Target audience for Miley Cyrus, Britteny Spears, etc: 35-45 year old men in mid-life crisis mode.
Contrasted with:
Pink, Beyonce, Lady Gaga: 35-45 year old men not in mid-life crisis mode. And gay men.
Interesting note: The difference in style between the two types of female pop stars. The former are expected to act like bad little girls who need some private spanking. The latter are expected to act like the woman you want on your arm when going to a wild party.
Just adding on. Some queens will dig Britney because ironic train wreck, but they do so at arm's length.
Sure. And I bet some of Britney's fans were males between 14-18. But that's not where the industry has their crosshairs.
Post was in progress when you put up your puppet strings one.
I think you're probably right, but I feel there's a grosser part about "dads of teenaged daughters" that's in there somewhere, and I don't want to look at it because GROSS.
Funny thing is, the deflection could have just been "timing", but you see it all the time on LOADS of different subjects, politics in particular.
So there's one level of marketing, right? "HERE, TARGET AUDIENCE, HAVE SOME CHEESE."
Then there's another level of marketing, perhaps? "DO NOT LOOK AT THE MARKETERS."
Like the Wizard of Oz, Yeah? Only competent and very subtle?
Just the beginnings of a hypothesis, here.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
Post was in progress when you put up your puppet strings one.
I think you're probably right, but I feel there's a grosser part about "dads of teenaged daughters" that's in there somewhere, and I don't want to look at it because GROSS.
See my post immediately before this one.
Instilling the urge to avoid looking behind the vinyl is part of the process.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
Post was in progress when you put up your puppet strings one.
I think you're probably right, but I feel there's a grosser part about "dads of teenaged daughters" that's in there somewhere, and I don't want to look at it because GROSS.
Here's a version of the GROSS from back in the day: http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-father-takes-one-more-look-at-liner-notes-of,3472/
QuoteJEFFERSON CITY, MO–Marv Reynolds, 42, father of 11-year-old Ashley, slipped into his daughter's bedroom for one more look at the liner notes to her Britney Spears album Monday. "Just like to see what my daughter's into these days," said Reynolds, perusing the photo-packed booklet accompanying Spears' Oops!...I Did It Again for the fourth time in as many days.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:22:08 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
Post was in progress when you put up your puppet strings one.
I think you're probably right, but I feel there's a grosser part about "dads of teenaged daughters" that's in there somewhere, and I don't want to look at it because GROSS.
Here's a version of the GROSS from back in the day: http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-father-takes-one-more-look-at-liner-notes-of,3472/
QuoteJEFFERSON CITY, MO–Marv Reynolds, 42, father of 11-year-old Ashley, slipped into his daughter's bedroom for one more look at the liner notes to her Britney Spears album Monday. "Just like to see what my daughter's into these days," said Reynolds, perusing the photo-packed booklet accompanying Spears' Oops!...I Did It Again for the fourth time in as many days.
Glad I'm not the only person to see this. :lulz:
I mean, it's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious why most people won't look at the manipulation.
Britney Spears was once asked about how she feels about "all the 40 year olds in the front row". Her response was "I try not to think about them."
Three weeks later, her "first career" was over, and the reporter who asked the question was reassigned away from music entertainment, and then terminated a few months later. Which may have been a series of coincidences. You decide.
The lesson there is "WE DO NOT TELL THE TRUTH IN FRONT OF THE MONEY".
I'm glad I read the entire thread before I saw the video, or I wouldn't have given it a second thought.
I see it now though.. May have something brewing in my noggin.
Worth noting: Nobody "killed" Spear's career. It's just that her target audience had their fantasy ruined, and stopped buying, and her current album flopped.
What's kind of amazing is that anyone could think this image was aimed at teenage girls:
(http://thumbs80.top1.ro/filme/Eagle/5433/britney-spears--hit-me-baby-one-more-time.jpeg)
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 06:29:15 PM
What's kind of amazing is that anyone could think this image was aimed at teenage girls:
(http://thumbs80.top1.ro/filme/Eagle/5433/britney-spears--hit-me-baby-one-more-time.jpeg)
You can be as blatant as you like,
as long as you don't mention it out loud.
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Maybe she was all, "My net worth is $120 Million. Fuck these guys."
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED
them their teenage children. by
tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my
opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit
even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Maybe she was all, "My net worth is $120 Million. Fuck these guys."
Or maybe, unlike Brittney, she just couldn't "not think about it"...
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 06:35:34 PM
Maybe she was all, "My net worth is $120 Million. Fuck these guys."
I would, in her position. On top of that, she gets to screech laughter with everyone's eyes glued on her.
My envy is a truck. A really big fuckin' truck. One of those ore hauler bastards.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
Thing about Britney is, she never had a chance. Her family wasn't in show business, her family was in the "Let's make this smattering of my DNA count." She was set in motion when she was 3 years old.
She also happens to be an idiot.
Miley Cyrus MAY be an idiot, I don't know enough to say. But she doesn't have to be because Britney was, is. Madonna is kind of an idiot, but Kabblah happens to the best of us. But here we have a young woman in the 21st Century, a new human being in a very interestinf and information heavy time in humanity's run.
Why is it so far fetched, for some, that she might be different.
Alty,
Still hasn't watched shit.
And it's no surprise to me that, as Nigel has repeatedly pointed out, she had a great deal of difficulty getting her label to process this album.
I mean, these guys know the score. Can you imagine what the mood in the office was, when THIS was carted in?
"I CAN'T GO BACK TO ACCOUNTANCY. OH GOD OH GOD."
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
That was my take. The tongue thing was absolutely
grotesque. I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.
Quote from: Alty on September 12, 2013, 06:40:46 PM
Thing about Britney is, she never had a chance. Her family wasn't in show business, her family was in the "Let's make this smattering of my DNA count." She was set in motion when she was 3 years old.
She also happens to be an idiot.
Miley Cyrus MAY be an idiot, I don't know enough to say. But she doesn't have to be because Britney was, is. Madonna is kind of an idiot, but Kabblah happens to the best of us. But here we have a young woman in the 21st Century, a new human being in a very interestinf and information heavy time in humanity's run.
Why is it so far fetched, for some, that she might be different.
Alty,
Still hasn't watched shit.
It's a Goddamn train wreck, Alty. It's like watching the Titanic back up for another run at the iceberg. It's like watching Michael Dukakis in the "tank commercial", only if he had NO INTENTION of winning the election.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
That was my take. The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque. I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.
The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.
You have to wear the purity rings because that's how we can sell sex to little girls, haha!
/
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3451/3349226684_951b1fa32a.jpg)
And honestly LMNO, that WAS marketed to teenage girls. Because if teenage girls don't embrace that shit they won't be available sexually for guys. Because teenage girls WANT to be all grown up and absolutely have crazy hormones all over the place and real sexual interests way before we as a society are cool with it, so you have to shoehorn them into this "OKAY YOU CAN WANT SEX BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A BAD GIRL" thing.
AND as light finally dawns and I can see why this flavor of the GROSS game is freaking me out when the other ones don't so much, Miley is (intentionally or no) taking on the same pretty privilege as other female comedians, but adding in the overtly sexual angle. Where Tina Fey or Amy Sedaris play characters that are asexual or fumblingly sexual even as adults, Miley is playing FUCK YOU I'LL DO WHAT I WANT AND IF I WANT TO SUCK DICK THAT'S MY CHOICE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU FIND SEXY. It is shameless, in the most literal interpretation of the word. She is rejecting her conventional beauty as a measuring rod for her value as a human being (which I love when other people do it) but then she is INSISTING that she gets to REMAIN A SEXUAL BEING while she's out there being ugly.
and like ten replies went up while I was writing this, which I haven't read. :digtbk2:
It's easy to assume all female pop stars are the same, just as easy it is to assume all discordians are the same, or all sci fi writers are the same, etc.
Why would you do that? Why would a brand new person HAVE to have the same intentions as those that came before?
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears.
I don't have solid numbers on this, but I have a feeling that the majority of America doesn't know what a pedobear is.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:22:08 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
Post was in progress when you put up your puppet strings one.
I think you're probably right, but I feel there's a grosser part about "dads of teenaged daughters" that's in there somewhere, and I don't want to look at it because GROSS.
Here's a version of the GROSS from back in the day: http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-father-takes-one-more-look-at-liner-notes-of,3472/
QuoteJEFFERSON CITY, MO–Marv Reynolds, 42, father of 11-year-old Ashley, slipped into his daughter's bedroom for one more look at the liner notes to her Britney Spears album Monday. "Just like to see what my daughter's into these days," said Reynolds, perusing the photo-packed booklet accompanying Spears' Oops!...I Did It Again for the fourth time in as many days.
Glad I'm not the only person to see this. :lulz:
I mean, it's pretty obvious. And it's also obvious why most people won't look at the manipulation.
Britney Spears was once asked about how she feels about "all the 40 year olds in the front row". Her response was "I try not to think about them."
Three weeks later, her "first career" was over, and the reporter who asked the question was reassigned away from music entertainment, and then terminated a few months later. Which may have been a series of coincidences. You decide.
How did I miss that?
Oh yeah..."Britney. Tune it out/skip it/not relevant."
Wow.
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
That was my take. The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque. I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.
The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.
How could anyone take it any other way? She may as well have hung up a sign.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:45:48 PM
You have to wear the purity rings because that's how we can sell sex to little girls, haha!
/
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3451/3349226684_951b1fa32a.jpg)
And honestly LMNO, that WAS marketed to teenage girls. Because if teenage girls don't embrace that shit they won't be available sexually for guys. Because teenage girls WANT to be all grown up and absolutely have crazy hormones all over the place and real sexual interests way before we as a society are cool with it, so you have to shoehorn them into this "OKAY YOU CAN WANT SEX BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A BAD GIRL" thing.
AND as light finally dawns and I can see why this flavor of the GROSS game is freaking me out when the other ones don't so much, Miley is (intentionally or no) taking on the same pretty privilege as other female comedians, but adding in the overtly sexual angle. Where Tina Fey or Amy Sedaris play characters that are asexual or fumblingly sexual even as adults, Miley is playing FUCK YOU I'LL DO WHAT I WANT AND IF I WANT TO SUCK DICK THAT'S MY CHOICE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU FIND SEXY. It is shameless, in the most literal interpretation of the word. She is rejecting her conventional beauty as a measuring rod for her value as a human being (which I love when other people do it) but then she is INSISTING that she gets to REMAIN A SEXUAL BEING while she's out there being ugly.
and like ten replies went up while I was writing this, which I haven't read. :digtbk2:
Yeah, when you think of "shameless" THAT way, it's a
virtue.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: stelz on September 12, 2013, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 01:53:48 AM
Have you ever known the way little kids like to hear the same stories over and over? They love it, and they'll eagerly listen to the same stupid thing hundreds of times.
But have you also seen what happens when you tell the story wrong? You'd think the fucking barbarians were at the gates.
Ever done it on purpose just to get a rise out of 'em?
Miley is telling the story wrong. She's messed up the good part, too!
Quote from: Placid Dingo on September 12, 2013, 01:46:47 AM
It's kind of like the spectacle as the artwork. It goes beyond the performance.
Like an artist painting a black canvas hiding inside with a camera to film audience reaction. The interaction is the artwork.
I may be going too deep with this.
I was just going to say something like this. The reaction is part of the art, and this is a masterpiece. It's one thing when avant-garde arthouse nerds try to outrage people with their weird art, but Miley is painting with the biggest damn canvas she can find.
YES.
NOT THE POINT.
She is a female. Nigel is ALSO a female, posting about said female.
This makes RWHN a sad panda. :(
It must be stopped. Failing that, it must be dismissed.
Well, it WAS the point last night, before the thread ended up chasing it's own tail.
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
Well, it WAS the point last night, before the thread ended up chasing it's own tail.
Fun begins again on page 13.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears.
I don't have solid numbers on this, but I have a feeling that the majority of America doesn't know what a pedobear is.
I'll bet that most people watching the VMAs do, though.
I don't follow. How would creepy middle-aged guys know about a 4Chan meme?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 08:15:15 PM
I don't follow. How would creepy middle-aged guys know about a 4Chan meme?
Creepy middle aged guy, nothing going for him in life, no girlfriend probably, spends hours a day working a menial office job he hates...what are the chances he doesn't know about 4chan?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 04:33:17 PM
Something to note: Functionally, it doesn't matter if Miley thought all this through as a way to subvert the paradigm by role-reversal and peeling the mask back on the tawdry exploitation of the media machine.
She did it anyway. Which kind of makes it more glorious, in a way.
If it's unconscious/unintentional, it's an even greater win, because it means she didn't even have to TRY, it just happened. And that's huge!
Quote from: Faust on September 12, 2013, 05:22:11 PM
I think* The difference between them and her is that it is unpleasant to watch. All the others were aiming to titillate. This is decidedly unattractive.
Madonna and britney could have taken a big shit on the stage, but they didn't because while they went for shock value, they went for shock value someone would want.
*For what its worth, not much
You are spot on the money.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think I do.
To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow. The sound mix is terrible. She obviously can't hear the band. What's with the tongue Hm. That's....that's not twerking. She's just touching her toes." And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.
I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here. I also dismissed the haters, too. But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued. Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.
But here's the thing: The intention is almost irrelevant, even if she specifically planned this. Or not.
The stage was set for the standard "20 year old dancing sexy for 40 year old creeps" (target audience). Then the pedo bears. Then the Beetlejuice thing. Then the INSANELY GROTESQUE BURLESQUE, so to speak. 40 year old creeps do not feel show has delivered. They don't understand it. They start making monkey noises while banging on the keyboard about THAT SLUT, THAT WHORE, THAT DISGUSTING LITTLE TRAMP...As evidenced in the comments on youtube, facebook, etc.
Here's the really nasty part: Rapists tend to say the same things about their victims, when they know or have observed their victims over a long period of time (as opposed to the far more rare stranger rape). They do this to justify - mostly to themselves - their behavior. She was a slut, so what they did didn't matter.
Then extend that just a tiny bit:
1. She's a SLUT AND A WHORE = "worthless".
2. She's just another female shock act = "worthless".
There really isn't a practical difference.
What she was communicating - whether or not she intended to - was "All of my fans are disgusting 40 year old creepers, and I am aware of this. NOW SO ARE THEY."
Yep. And, in addition, they now know she knows and has turned the tables on them, and it freaks them the fuck out. She's no longer a pretty package for them to leer at, she essentially turned on the light while they were trying to wank behind the screen, stuck out her tongue, and said DANCE, MONKEY, DANCE.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 05:42:11 PM
So, I just realized that this HAS been done before.
Not Madonna and Britney and what have you, because they were still attempting to be sexy even if they failed.
No, this is the act that Amy Sedaris did, with the pop-star twist. This is being GROSS on purpose.
Can I just point out that Amy Sedaris is FUCKING AWESOME?
She REALLY REALLY REALLY is.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: Cainad on September 12, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
Well, it WAS the point last night, before the thread ended up chasing it's own tail.
Fun begins again on page 13.
Thanks, I just caught up. Good stuff.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:40:56 PM
And it's no surprise to me that, as Nigel has repeatedly pointed out, she had a great deal of difficulty getting her label to process this album.
I mean, these guys know the score. Can you imagine what the mood in the office was, when THIS was carted in?
"I CAN'T GO BACK TO ACCOUNTANCY. OH GOD OH GOD."
In order to get the "We Can't Stop" video made, she had to stop showing potential funders the script for it. :lol:
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
That was my take. The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque. I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.
The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.
It was AMAZING!
The use of Robin Thicke as a "This is YOU" prop somehow escaped me before. :lulz:
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on September 12, 2013, 06:45:48 PM
You have to wear the purity rings because that's how we can sell sex to little girls, haha!
/
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3451/3349226684_951b1fa32a.jpg)
And honestly LMNO, that WAS marketed to teenage girls. Because if teenage girls don't embrace that shit they won't be available sexually for guys. Because teenage girls WANT to be all grown up and absolutely have crazy hormones all over the place and real sexual interests way before we as a society are cool with it, so you have to shoehorn them into this "OKAY YOU CAN WANT SEX BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A BAD GIRL" thing.
AND as light finally dawns and I can see why this flavor of the GROSS game is freaking me out when the other ones don't so much, Miley is (intentionally or no) taking on the same pretty privilege as other female comedians, but adding in the overtly sexual angle. Where Tina Fey or Amy Sedaris play characters that are asexual or fumblingly sexual even as adults, Miley is playing FUCK YOU I'LL DO WHAT I WANT AND IF I WANT TO SUCK DICK THAT'S MY CHOICE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU FIND SEXY. It is shameless, in the most literal interpretation of the word. She is rejecting her conventional beauty as a measuring rod for her value as a human being (which I love when other people do it) but then she is INSISTING that she gets to REMAIN A SEXUAL BEING while she's out there being ugly.
and like ten replies went up while I was writing this, which I haven't read. :digtbk2:
I think that's an excellent analysis.
I also really enjoyed this interview:
http://idolator.com/7466715/miley-cyrus-explains-we-cant-stop-video-jimmy-kimmel
I also liked this one: http://www.parade.com/153453/hannah_dreyfus/miley-cyrus-first-interview-since-vmas-we-knew-we-were-making-history/
Quote"What's amazing is I think now, we're three days later and people are still talking about it," said Cyrus. "You're thinking about it more than I thought about it when I did it!"
Cyrus also noted that she doesn't "pay attention to the negative." "I've seen this play out so many times," Cyrus said. "How many times have we seen this play out in pop music?" She cited Madonna and Britney Spears as examples.
"Madonna's done it. Britney's done it. Every VMA performance, that's what you're looking for; you're wanting to make history," she concluded.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:13:59 PM
I mean:
"HERE'S HOW THE MANIPULATION IS TARGETED."
Posts immediately afterward:
"Ouch!"
"Here's Lady Gaga being an ass in front of the queen."
"Someone say Amy Sedaris?"
"YES, AMY SEDARIS!"
25% of posts looking at manipulation.
75% of posts quickly looking away from the puppet strings.
And 100% of the posts, the entire set, are from people who are all extremely intelligent.
THERE'S SOMETHING LURKING IN THE WATER, HERE. Gotta find out what it is.
TGRR,
I AM AHAB.
Ok, point.
It's a blind spot, one that every time I am aware of it, it slips out of view because it is uncomfortable to think about.
I suppose it's kind of a fnord.
If everyone has this blind spot then it can be exploited, it could be useful, both to understand it and be aware of the mechanism in myself and avoid falling for it, and to be able to implement it ourselves. I see what you mean by this being the kind of stuff we should have been doing since 2006.
I'm going to go back and watch it again and see why I found it so uncomfortable.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 08:15:15 PM
I don't follow. How would creepy middle-aged guys know about a 4Chan meme?
My ten-year-old daughter and all her friends at school know about Pedobear. All the kids know about Pedobear. I'm sure there are older adults who DON'T know about Pedobear, but I suspect most people know, and anyone who's tapped into pop culture know. Wacky morning DJ's know about Pedobear. Everybody knows about Pedobear. The Internet is mainstream.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 07:28:07 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: Kai on September 12, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Roger, these revelations are giving me a giggling headache.
So, basically, Miley Cyrus is in the "creepy 40 year old men" business, which is a hush hush secret. Or at least she was (and it was), until she jumped ship. And now that contingent doesn't want anything to do with her because she revealed their dirty dirty secret. That to me makes me think she was in charge of it all and understands exactly what she is doing. She decided she wanted a different sort of audience, so she ruined her current demographic. Beautiful.
Oh, they want something to do with her. They want to makes sure everyone knows she's a DIRTY LITTLE WHORE who has BETRAYED them their teenage children. by tearing back the vinyl ACTING LIKE A TOTAL SLUT.
And it's my opinion that she did this on purpose. By which I meant, "she deliberately attacked her target demographic", rather than "She went all skanky". Because that wasn't skanky, it was gross (VMAs), and potentially terrifying (Wrecking Ball)...
...And the FUNNIEST BIT IS, the type of person offended can't admit even to themselves why they are offended, because it's fucking PEDO BEAR (which she thoughtfully included in the VMA act).
I don't understand how more people aren't tipped off by the Pedobears. It's like a giant middle finger. Actually, the whole VMA show is like a giant middle finger. "Here, let me destroy all those nasty fantasies you have with me. 8)"
That was my take. The tongue thing was absolutely grotesque. I am personally convinced that was exactly her intent.
The Beetlejuice. THE BEETLEJUICE!!!! A perfect representation/avatar of the creepers and how she sees them. Oh god, that's GLORIOUS.
How could anyone take it any other way? She may as well have hung up a sign.
Yep.
He even had a gold chain. A. GOLD. CHAIN. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.
I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.
What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.
1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...
2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...
And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.
Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
RWHN, I'd suggest hitching your wagon to Johnny, because he says what I think you've been trying to say a lot better than you did.
Holy time machines Batman! It's still 2008!
http://binside.typepad.com/binside_tv/2008/04/miley-cyrus-top.html
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 04:29:47 AM
I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.
I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.
What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.
1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...
2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...
And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.
Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
I could handle the first 'thru', but for some reason using both 'synchretism" and 'thru' in one sentence breaks my brain. I can't read this.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 06:00:12 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 04:29:47 AM
I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.
I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.
What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.
1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...
2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...
And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.
Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
I could handle the first 'thru', but for some reason using both 'synchretism" and 'thru' in one sentence breaks my brain. I can't read this.
Maybe I could type it out in Spanish to make it easier for you to read it? I write better that way.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:34:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 12, 2013, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on September 12, 2013, 05:19:39 PM
Or vice versa...What's being communicated isn't what's on the surface. Which is a totally different thing. If you know what I mean.
I think I do.
To be honest, I'm a fan of Bounce, so when I saw the VMA thing the first time, my reactions were: "Wow. The sound mix is terrible. She obviously can't hear the band. What's with the tongue Hm. That's....that's not twerking. She's just touching her toes." And I more or less dismissed the rest as a failed skit.
I wasn't disturbed or outraged, but then again, I'm not really the target demographic here. I also dismissed the haters, too. But then, you all started pointing out the subtle things going on, and when I found out that her video was directed by the so-called king of the creepers, Terry Richardson, I got intrigued. Now, though I can't say with any certainty what her inner motiviations are, her actions have certainly played out in a fairly seismic way, intentional or not.
But here's the thing: The intention is almost irrelevant, even if she specifically planned this. Or not.
The stage was set for the standard "20 year old dancing sexy for 40 year old creeps" (target audience). Then the pedo bears. Then the Beetlejuice thing. Then the INSANELY GROTESQUE BURLESQUE, so to speak. 40 year old creeps do not feel show has delivered. They don't understand it. They start making monkey noises while banging on the keyboard about THAT SLUT, THAT WHORE, THAT DISGUSTING LITTLE TRAMP...As evidenced in the comments on youtube, facebook, etc.
Here's the really nasty part: Rapists tend to say the same things about their victims, when they know or have observed their victims over a long period of time (as opposed to the far more rare stranger rape). They do this to justify - mostly to themselves - their behavior. She was a slut, so what they did didn't matter.
Then extend that just a tiny bit:
1. She's a SLUT AND A WHORE = "worthless".
2. She's just another female shock act = "worthless".
There really isn't a practical difference.
What she was communicating - whether or not she intended to - was "All of my fans are disgusting 40 year old creepers, and I am aware of this. NOW SO ARE THEY."
Beetlejuice and PedoBear are important things i overlooked, well noted :golfclap:
And i gotta say i also fell a bit prey to the "lack-of-female-agency" trope, but i don't consider it a mysoginistic type bias, but rather my assumption that all pop entertainers are puppets.
(Regardless of their sex/gender)
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
And i gotta say i also fell a bit prey to the "lack-of-female-agency" trope, but i don't consider it a mysoginistic type bias, but rather my assumption that all pop entertainers are puppets.
(Regardless of their sex/gender)
A very important detail that I keep mentioning but that seems to keep being unnoticed is that this is the first project of hers of which she has had complete creative and business control. This is something she's mentioned in interviews in connection to the "We Just Can't Stop" video. She is making the hiring and creative decisions. On her own. Which means that ultimately, she is responsible for the product she is selling. She may be, as RWHN put it, a tool, but she is a tool of herself in an industry she chose to work in.
She is not a slave, or a possession. She has agency.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 13, 2013, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
And i gotta say i also fell a bit prey to the "lack-of-female-agency" trope, but i don't consider it a mysoginistic type bias, but rather my assumption that all pop entertainers are puppets.
(Regardless of their sex/gender)
A very important detail that I keep mentioning but that seems to keep being unnoticed is that this is the first project of hers of which she has had complete creative and business control. This is something she's mentioned in interviews in connection to the "We Just Can't Stop" video. She is making the hiring and creative decisions. On her own. Which means that ultimately, she is responsible for the product she is selling. She may be, as RWHN put it, a tool, but she is a tool of herself in an industry she chose to work in.
She is not a slave, or a possession. She has agency.
I did read that you mentioned she has creative control, that's why i mentioned it after reading the entire thread in an apologetic way.
(Not sure if you are just re-emphasizing or saying im not noticing it.)
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:05:51 AM
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 06:00:12 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 04:29:47 AM
I read the first page of this thread, and I want to express my ideas before I get sidetracked with it, because its something I've been thinking of since the VMAs and now its triangulated with Wrecking Ball.
I denominate this aesthetic trend as "Awkward Sexuality" thru a perspective that everything is calculated and planned out in the entertainment business and that there are no coincidences, just well crafted publicists and marketers constantly trying to one-up each other.
What is this product that is sold thru the incarnation of Ms. Cyrus? The synchretism between the all-out "femme fatale" or sexual-woman that is manifested thru the likes of (pop culture police, ill reference what i know but im no expert) say Shakira, Beyonce, Britney, or Katy Perry in which the sex card is played straight and direct thru the manner of "I have a great body and i know how to use it, and here i come"... and the fusion with it's counter-part, which is girly-girl innocence, such as say, Taylor Swift or Demi Lovato, in which "feely, touchy" things take prevalence over a sexuated message or expression. So the extremes can be analytically categorized as "sexuality" vs. "innocence", and in such a market of extremes, somebody necesarily would come in and eat up the in-between market of them - enter Miley.
1st observation: VMAs... with the bloated budget and image consulting she undoubtedly has, the shorts she wore in the presentation were not a last minute wardrobe malfunction... I think there's an overwhelming consensus that she has a very healthy, young and attractive body, so her body image and attractiveness is uncontested and thus can get away with a bad wardrobe without tarnishing that consensus... but besides the wardrobe (and the transition from the 1st attire) another thing that managed to catch everyone's eye was supposedly her "trashy" moves, and the more introspective and observant managed to understand that it was not the "trashy" nature of it, because that's a common day to day sight, but rather how it made themselves feel... "uncomftable", "awkward", "shame"...
2nd observation: Wrecking Ball... yes, shes naked except for her boots, shes "riding sensually" the demolition ball and shes licking a hammer... but its a type of b-side sensuality, it does not come off right, it's not played out properly enough and one is given enough time to read between the lines, see between the cracks that it's a comedy, suspension of disbelief is broken...
And in this manner she gobbles up the market between the extremes, playing "badly" both extreme tropes, but in reality, it's a synchretism between the sexual femme-fatale and the innocent girl coming-of-age. I rest my case.
Now if you pardon me, I'll be drinking bleach thru one of my ears.
I could handle the first 'thru', but for some reason using both 'synchretism" and 'thru' in one sentence breaks my brain. I can't read this.
Maybe I could type it out in Spanish to make it easier for you to read it? I write better that way.
Heh, thanks for the offer. But sadly, that won't help. This is something I will have to work on, mea culpa.
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:45:49 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 13, 2013, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
And i gotta say i also fell a bit prey to the "lack-of-female-agency" trope, but i don't consider it a mysoginistic type bias, but rather my assumption that all pop entertainers are puppets.
(Regardless of their sex/gender)
A very important detail that I keep mentioning but that seems to keep being unnoticed is that this is the first project of hers of which she has had complete creative and business control. This is something she's mentioned in interviews in connection to the "We Just Can't Stop" video. She is making the hiring and creative decisions. On her own. Which means that ultimately, she is responsible for the product she is selling. She may be, as RWHN put it, a tool, but she is a tool of herself in an industry she chose to work in.
She is not a slave, or a possession. She has agency.
I did read that you mentioned she has creative control, that's why i mentioned it after reading the entire thread in an apologetic way.
(Not sure if you are just re-emphasizing or saying im not noticing it.)
Just re-emphasizing because it seemed to get glossed over, ignored, or just not believed in a lot of posts and articles.
-
Quote from: Cain on September 13, 2013, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 13, 2013, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 06:10:17 AM
And i gotta say i also fell a bit prey to the "lack-of-female-agency" trope, but i don't consider it a mysoginistic type bias, but rather my assumption that all pop entertainers are puppets.
(Regardless of their sex/gender)
A very important detail that I keep mentioning but that seems to keep being unnoticed is that this is the first project of hers of which she has had complete creative and business control. This is something she's mentioned in interviews in connection to the "We Just Can't Stop" video. She is making the hiring and creative decisions. On her own. Which means that ultimately, she is responsible for the product she is selling. She may be, as RWHN put it, a tool, but she is a tool of herself in an industry she chose to work in.
She is not a slave, or a possession. She has agency.
Indeed, I noticed that as well.
I also think I read a brief bit of an interview where she made it quite clear she really disliked her earlier music work. She was saying things along the lines of she couldn't even bear to listen to it any more (a position I can entirely sympathise with).
I would suggest this perhaps goes deeper than just the music. It's the music + image + associated lifestyle that I would say she is rebelling against, by, like Johnny says, using an over the top synthesis of both usual roles of a former Disney girl, done in such a fashion that it almost seems to be parodying them.
Yes. Whatever she's doing, it's all hers, and it's upsetting people but good, which I approve of.
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, repetition ad nausium is annoying as fuck.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Definitely, repetition is annoying as fuck.
Quote from: Faust on September 13, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Definitely, repetition is annoying as fuck.
People who restate their arguments are Annoying as fuck.
Especially if more than one person does it, bandwagoning at its worst.
people who restate
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/89f0e2dab5db5d4080d382e2fc17a1d6/tumblr_mt1v0gLu0A1rw9dz1o1_r3_400.gif)
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Heuristics can be a uniform all their own.
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
I'm guessing you got sick of the thread chasing its own tail for a couple pages too? :lulz:
Quote from: Cramulus on September 13, 2013, 02:46:42 PM
people who restate
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/89f0e2dab5db5d4080d382e2fc17a1d6/tumblr_mt1v0gLu0A1rw9dz1o1_r3_400.gif)
:lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Quote from: Faust on September 13, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, repetition ad nausium is annoying as fuck.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Quote from: Faust on September 13, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, repetition ad nausium is annoying as fuck.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Quote from: Faust on September 13, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Definitely, repetition is annoying as fuck.
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 01:59:11 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 13, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 13, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on September 13, 2013, 08:04:02 AM
Not just derived from this, but theres a certain thing that both dumb and smart people alike do that really annoys me... false equivalences between things that arent, which are made thru simplyfying them... a certain stubbornness to apply the same and typical analytical categories ad nauseum, over and over and OVER, AGAIN...
At certain point of doing that you stop listening, you stop hearing and im guessing you stop thinking because "OH no need to look into it, i know what that is all about!"...
I know its cognitive heuristics and all that jazz of cost efficiency but FUCK.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Annoying as fuck.
Excessive repetition is a sure sign that no thinking is taking place.
Definitely, repetition is annoying as fuck.
People who restate their arguments are Annoying as fuck.
Especially if more than one person does it, bandwagoning at its worst.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 13, 2013, 02:46:42 PM
people who restate
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/89f0e2dab5db5d4080d382e2fc17a1d6/tumblr_mt1v0gLu0A1rw9dz1o1_r3_400.gif)
Me too
Quote from: Cramulus on September 13, 2013, 02:46:42 PM
people who restate
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/89f0e2dab5db5d4080d382e2fc17a1d6/tumblr_mt1v0gLu0A1rw9dz1o1_r3_400.gif)
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/126373/Miley-Cyrus-Puts-Sexual-Performances-Down-To-Being-Obsessed-With-Britney-Spears
QuoteMiley Cyrus has been hitting headlines across the globe with her recent raunchy behaviour, but the short haired singer has now defended her sexual shenanigans, saying that she was influenced by Britney Spears in her Slave 4 U days.
Quote"I was obsessed with her Slave For You video," she tells Alan Carr on the Channel 4 show, adding: "That was the first head shake I got from my dad when the video came out, as I tried to re-enact the whole film."
QuoteMiley also spoke out about the criticism she has received and how unfair it is that the constant attention her VMAs performance gets is down to her, saying: "Literally the blame gets taken on to me; they're like 'how are they not talking about these real world issues right now and Miley's just around twerking?' I'm like 'what do you want me to do?! You're the one clicking the damn page.'" "Go read the news about real s**t in the world, don't keep clicking on my page – you're the one who's making it keep coming back and the reason why people won't quit talking about it!' I already did it and I've got bigger and naughtier things to be thinking about."
:lulz:
Quote
I already did it and I've got bigger and naughtier things to be thinking about."
[/quote]
:lulz:
:lulz: I need to go watch the Slave 4 U video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idgPywoow7E
Interesting...
This is making me laugh and laugh
http://jezebel.com/these-miley-cyrus-fcc-complaints-are-amazing-1307896316?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jezebel%2Ffull+%28Jezebel%29&utm_content=FaceBook
QuoteThe Miley Cyrus performance on the MTV 2013 Video Music Awards rubbing her genital area with a "foam" finger like those used at stadiums along with her grinding dance performance with singer Robin Thicke was vulgar and distasteful. Dressed in a "skimpy" latex bikini, she bent over to rub her buttocks against Robin Thicke's groin which caused him to have a slight erection which can be easily noticed through his pants.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
This is making me laugh and laugh
http://jezebel.com/these-miley-cyrus-fcc-complaints-are-amazing-1307896316?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jezebel%2Ffull+%28Jezebel%29&utm_content=FaceBook
QuoteThe Miley Cyrus performance on the MTV 2013 Video Music Awards rubbing her genital area with a "foam" finger like those used at stadiums along with her grinding dance performance with singer Robin Thicke was vulgar and distasteful. Dressed in a "skimpy" latex bikini, she bent over to rub her buttocks against Robin Thicke's groin which caused him to have a slight erection which can be easily noticed through his pants.
It's like Mrs. Betty Bowers wrote ALL OF THEM. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
This one:
QuoteYou should have taken it off as soon as she starting promoting her filthy actions. She has shown what she is acting like a devil flicking that tongue as deamons do.
Sentence one is parsable. Ridiculous, but parsable. But sentence two:
QuoteBeing a Christian Im taking a stand as these people push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
:?
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
This is making me laugh and laugh
http://jezebel.com/these-miley-cyrus-fcc-complaints-are-amazing-1307896316?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jezebel%2Ffull+%28Jezebel%29&utm_content=FaceBook
QuoteThe Miley Cyrus performance on the MTV 2013 Video Music Awards rubbing her genital area with a "foam" finger like those used at stadiums along with her grinding dance performance with singer Robin Thicke was vulgar and distasteful. Dressed in a "skimpy" latex bikini, she bent over to rub her buttocks against Robin Thicke's groin which caused him to have a slight erection which can be easily noticed through his pants.
Wow. Comedy gold, here. Too bad the FCC can't, you know, DO ANYTHING about it.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:35:33 PM
This one:
QuoteYou should have taken it off as soon as she starting promoting her filthy actions. She has shown what she is acting like a devil flicking that tongue as deamons do.
Sentence one is parsable. Ridiculous, but parsable. But sentence two:
QuoteBeing a Christian Im taking a stand as these people push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
:?
You're right, I can't make heads or tails of this. I mean, I can put in punctuation where it could theoretically GO, but it still doesn't make sense.
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on September 15, 2013, 12:18:02 AM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:35:33 PM
This one:
QuoteYou should have taken it off as soon as she starting promoting her filthy actions. She has shown what she is acting like a devil flicking that tongue as deamons do.
Sentence one is parsable. Ridiculous, but parsable. But sentence two:
QuoteBeing a Christian Im taking a stand as these people push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
:?
You're right, I can't make heads or tails of this. I mean, I can put in punctuation where it could theoretically GO, but it still doesn't make sense.
It's because you are both impure heathens unworthy of the words spoken by the Righteous. Clearly you are so steeped in filth and vulgarity that a woman taking a stand as a lady against the improper conduct of these disgusting 'stars' is lost on you. For shame!
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on September 14, 2013, 11:39:26 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
This is making me laugh and laugh
http://jezebel.com/these-miley-cyrus-fcc-complaints-are-amazing-1307896316?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jezebel%2Ffull+%28Jezebel%29&utm_content=FaceBook
QuoteThe Miley Cyrus performance on the MTV 2013 Video Music Awards rubbing her genital area with a "foam" finger like those used at stadiums along with her grinding dance performance with singer Robin Thicke was vulgar and distasteful. Dressed in a "skimpy" latex bikini, she bent over to rub her buttocks against Robin Thicke's groin which caused him to have a slight erection which can be easily noticed through his pants.
Wow. Comedy gold, here. Too bad the FCC can't, you know, DO ANYTHING about it.
That's the best part! :lulz:
Being a Discordian I'm taking a stand as these spags push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
What are they doing watching it instead of KTFMS and baking some more god damned bread?! I've read the bible, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about women givung ,heir opinions that didn't end badly.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 12:42:24 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on September 14, 2013, 11:39:26 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 14, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
This is making me laugh and laugh
http://jezebel.com/these-miley-cyrus-fcc-complaints-are-amazing-1307896316?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jezebel%2Ffull+%28Jezebel%29&utm_content=FaceBook
QuoteThe Miley Cyrus performance on the MTV 2013 Video Music Awards rubbing her genital area with a "foam" finger like those used at stadiums along with her grinding dance performance with singer Robin Thicke was vulgar and distasteful. Dressed in a "skimpy" latex bikini, she bent over to rub her buttocks against Robin Thicke's groin which caused him to have a slight erection which can be easily noticed through his pants.
Wow. Comedy gold, here. Too bad the FCC can't, you know, DO ANYTHING about it.
That's the best part! :lulz:
Heeeee!
QuoteMiley Cyrus needs to be detoxed from her behavior, her clothing, her dance moves, and taught how to keep her tongue in her mouth. I suggest 12 months in a convent! However, it's time the FCC stepped in and put this program on notice that they've gone waaaay too far, and to shut them down, and fine Ms Miley Cyrus for her lewd and lascivious shenanigans!
- Tuscon, AZ
Wasn't me, I swear it! :lulz:
Saw that! :lol:
I need to re-watch the video, because I didn't notice Robin Thicke's easily noticeable erection the first time around.
My uncle:
QuoteWho is Miley Cyrus and what is a thicke guy?
Me:
QuoteMiley Cyrus was a teen actress/singer (child of that guy who sang Achy Breaky Heart) who is going through her inevitable rebellious "now I am an adult" stage. Robin Thicke is the son of an actor, notable for having been on stage while Cyrus was having her young adult crisis. I learned about this because apparently, America is VERY VERY UPSET at Ms. Cyrus for gyrating lewdly and sticking her tongue out at the MTV Video Music Awards, even though that is exactly what has happened onstage at the Video Music Awards, and indeed on stages where music is performed, since approximately the beginning of time. I watched it to find out why, and about 30 seconds in I started laughing and haven't stopped laughing since. If this isn't all a big joke on purpose, it's a big joke on accident, and I, for one, am completely entertained.
Did I do a good explain?
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 04:03:39 AM
Saw that! :lol:
I need to re-watch the video, because I didn't notice Robin Thicke's easily noticeable erection the first time around.
IT WAS TOTALLY OBVIOUS AND I WASN'T MEAT-GAZING.
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 12:52:53 AM
Being a Discordian I'm taking a stand as these spags push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
Pretty sure we've found the next "Has anyone been as far as..." :lulz:
Quote from: Cainad on September 15, 2013, 01:51:35 PM
Quote from: What The Fox Say on September 15, 2013, 12:52:53 AM
Being a Discordian I'm taking a stand as these spags push vulgarity and teaching women to act like trash is not going to stand for a woman being a lady would never conduct herself like that.
Pretty sure we've found the next "Has anyone been as far as..." :lulz:
Or "I want to create a pention..."
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Pretty sure at this point that Comcast is just trying to stop you from backing up your arguments with links
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 25, 2013, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Pretty sure at this point that Comcast is just trying to stop you from backing up your arguments with links
:lulz: Even Comcast is sick and tired of my Nigeling.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Cool, Can you get onto the IRC channel? or will I pm you?
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Cool, Can you get onto the IRC channel? or will I pm you?
If you could PM me that would be rad. Thanks!
aaand she's releasing a documentary about herself http://mashable.com/2013/09/19/miley-cyrus-documentary-trailer/
QuoteMiley Cyrus has been dominating news and social media for weeks, but it seems it was all just part of her plan.
"You're always gonna make people talk," Cyrus says in the trailer for her new documentary called Miley: The Movement, which will air on MTV on Oct. 2. "You might as well make them talk for, like, two weeks, rather than two seconds."
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 07:37:05 PM
aaand she's releasing a documentary about herself http://mashable.com/2013/09/19/miley-cyrus-documentary-trailer/
QuoteMiley Cyrus has been dominating news and social media for weeks, but it seems it was all just part of her plan.
"You're always gonna make people talk," Cyrus says in the trailer for her new documentary called Miley: The Movement, which will air on MTV on Oct. 2. "You might as well make them talk for, like, two weeks, rather than two seconds."
I am somehow reminded of a kid grabbing another kid's hand and jeering,
"Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!"
but we can't stop hitting ourselves
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Cool, Can you get onto the IRC channel? or will I pm you?
And then Faust walked me through fixing All The Things. Much motha fuckin wicked clown love, homie.
(http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA5LzI0LzJmL21pbGV5MjMuMDdkMmQuZ2lmCnAJdGh1bWIJODUweDU5MD4KZQlqcGc/35709e65/75f/miley23.jpg)
Ok, I've been kind of enraptured by this whole thing since Nigel posted about the VMA thing being a troll. I still haven't watched that. However my daughter made me watch We Can't Stop, I'm not sure why since she herself hated it, she saw it as Miley going off the tracks and falling apart, she'd been a fan of the Hannah Montana show Don't blame me for her bad taste, all kids are allowed some. Anyway, I saw it as bad, but not awesome bad like Toxic which had caused me to start enjoying Brittney Spears becuase suddenly she was an interesting, complex, and perhaps completely insane, human being and not some disney cut out. Then I saw Nigel's analysis of the VMA's, but it didn't quite click for me yet.
I watched Wrecking Ball prior to seeing this thread, visually I enjoyed it, music wise I am still not a fan, but whatever, and it definitely had that creepy aspect that I couldn't quite put my finger on. I think there's something about the combination of powerful, sexually aggressive miley with a hammer or riding a wrecking ball with close up of her face, crying, vulnerable Miley. It's a little bit like she realizes (during the crying close ups) that it really wasn't very nice to rape that fellow with a strap on.
Miley Cyrus was really not the popstar I expected to get complex and interesting in ways that went beyond anything musical. I'm glad she did and am looking forward to seeing where she goes from here. I also want to say I really like her hair.
I'm also trying to figure out why anyone takes RWHN any more seriously than Brother Nihil. I mean, he is more skilled at trolling, but that he is trolling is really transparent. I know trolling is kind of a religious duty for Discordians, can't somebody get him on one of those pagan boards you are always going to?
Quote from: Pergamos on September 26, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
I'm also trying to figure out why anyone takes RWHN any more seriously than Brother Nihil. I mean, he is more skilled at trolling, but that he is trolling is really transparent. I know trolling is kind of a religious duty for Discordians, can't somebody get him on one of those pagan boards you are always going to?
Because he used to be a good guy.
I asked my daughter the other day what music she likes. I offered Miley Cyrus as an option.
"Who's he?"
BEST ANSWER.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 12:25:24 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Cool, Can you get onto the IRC channel? or will I pm you?
And then Faust walked me through fixing All The Things. Much motha fuckin wicked clown love, homie.
(http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA5LzI0LzJmL21pbGV5MjMuMDdkMmQuZ2lmCnAJdGh1bWIJODUweDU5MD4KZQlqcGc/35709e65/75f/miley23.jpg)
Please note the Discordian gang sign of "2 + 3".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 12:25:24 AM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 25, 2013, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 25, 2013, 04:08:10 PM
Miley has a new video called "23" http://mashable.com/2013/09/24/miley-cyrus-23-michael-jordan/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link
apparently it's a tribute to Michael Jordan
kind of unnoteworthy IMO
SOMEDAY, WHEN MY INTERNET IS WORKING AGAIN.
Are you still getting the Only PD accessible bug? If so that is a DNS issue and should be easy to troubleshoot. I can walk you though a few simple tests that take 5 min if you like.
Sure!
The weird thing is that periodically, everything is fine. And then some things are borked. Occasionally even PD is borked.
Cool, Can you get onto the IRC channel? or will I pm you?
And then Faust walked me through fixing All The Things. Much motha fuckin wicked clown love, homie.
(http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA5LzI0LzJmL21pbGV5MjMuMDdkMmQuZ2lmCnAJdGh1bWIJODUweDU5MD4KZQlqcGc/35709e65/75f/miley23.jpg)
Please note the Discordian gang sign of "2 + 3".
:lulz: That's why I posted it. Not to mention the tiny eye on her knuckle.
More like Mylumminatyrus, amirite?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 04:07:46 PM
More like Mylumminatyrus, amirite?
MILEY: THE MOVEMENT
I loved that she is so over the top grandiose. :lulz:
I bet you a certain discordian perv is positively throbbing right now over the 23 reference
hxxp://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/xtra/mileyraycyrus.html
Quote from: Cramulus on September 26, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
I bet you a certain discordian perv is positively throbbing right now over the 23 reference
hxxp://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/xtra/mileyraycyrus.html
:lulz:
Quote from: Pergamos on September 26, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
I'm also trying to figure out why anyone takes RWHN any more seriously than Brother Nihil. I mean, he is more skilled at trolling, but that he is trolling is really transparent. I know trolling is kind of a religious duty for Discordians, can't somebody get him on one of those pagan boards you are always going to?
My services are not free, send me money and I'll troll wherever you want me to troll.
Also, Miley, the tongue thing is a bit tired now. You might want to mix up your schtick a bit.
That is free advice.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 26, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
I bet you a certain discordian perv is positively throbbing right now over the 23 reference
hxxp://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/xtra/mileyraycyrus.html
Ew I know, I remember when he was doing that whole nauseating "Discordian American Princess" routine over her. :vom:
Luckily for Miley she's too old for him now.
-
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 04:43:42 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on September 26, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
I bet you a certain discordian perv is positively throbbing right now over the 23 reference
hxxp://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/xtra/mileyraycyrus.html
Ew I know, I remember when he was doing that whole nauseating "Discordian American Princess" routine over her. :vom:
Luckily for Miley she's too old for him now.
And also too "no one would ever want to come within 10 yards of the creepo"
Quote from: Cain on September 26, 2013, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on September 26, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
I'm also trying to figure out why anyone takes RWHN any more seriously than Brother Nihil. I mean, he is more skilled at trolling, but that he is trolling is really transparent. I know trolling is kind of a religious duty for Discordians, can't somebody get him on one of those pagan boards you are always going to?
Maybe because people bring him up at random in threads that have almost nothing to do with him.
Just a suggestion.
True, it's just that he was doing a pretty good job of trolling Roger and Nigel earlier in the thread.
Quote from: Pergamos on September 26, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 26, 2013, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on September 26, 2013, 07:35:19 AM
I'm also trying to figure out why anyone takes RWHN any more seriously than Brother Nihil. I mean, he is more skilled at trolling, but that he is trolling is really transparent. I know trolling is kind of a religious duty for Discordians, can't somebody get him on one of those pagan boards you are always going to?
Maybe because people bring him up at random in threads that have almost nothing to do with him.
Just a suggestion.
True, it's just that he was doing a pretty good job of trolling Roger and Nigel earlier in the thread.
That was two weeks ago, dude.
You know what you wouldn't believe, there was this guy Dead Kennedy who did an EXCELLENT job trolling me and Roger. You should go find his threads and bump them.
Oh, lord. The DK threads. He got me so, so badly.
"You are all mired in Cartesian Duality". :evilmad:
AKK is still the, uh, "gold" standard, as trolls go.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 07:58:35 PM
Oh, lord. The DK threads. He got me so, so badly.
"You are all mired in Cartesian Duality". :evilmad:
I miss DK - he put in the legwork. His posts were epic, meandering volumes of pure comedy gold. Okay so I only had to skim them to post a one-liner retort but at least he made the fucking effort :argh!:
My troll dream date would be a thread where DK and IANAR were debating with each other
The Miley Cyrus VMA thing would've been epic if it had (somehow) been AKK instead of that Thicke guy.
Do not make me WOMP those two things together.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 08:33:45 PM
Do not make me WOMP those two things together.
I CHALLENGE YOU!!!!!
(That is five exclamation marks, now you have to)
Quote from: :regret: on September 26, 2013, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 08:33:45 PM
Do not make me WOMP those two things together.
I CHALLENGE YOU!!!!!
(That is five exclamation marks, now you have to)
Is that all you have to do? Hly fuck I'm going to have some fun with this. BRB...
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 26, 2013, 09:04:36 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 26, 2013, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 08:33:45 PM
Do not make me WOMP those two things together.
I CHALLENGE YOU!!!!!
(That is five exclamation marks, now you have to)
Is that all you have to do? Hly fuck I'm going to have some fun with this. BRB...
Yep,
Quote from: Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man
"Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind."
And nobody fucks with madmen.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 26, 2013, 08:33:45 PM
Do not make me WOMP those two things together.
That is precisely why I made that post. ;)
Miley said one of her role models was Sinead O'Connor. Apparently her wrecking ball video, and her new "look" was inspired by Sinead. In response to that fact, Sinead O'Connor wrote a letter to Miley (http://www.ourstage.com/blog/2013/10/3/sinead-oconnors-remarkable-open-letter-to-miley-cyrus).
OPEN LETTER TO MILEY CYRUS
(http://blog.ourstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sinead-oconnor-300x400-225x300.jpg)
Dear Miley,
I wasn't going to write this letter, but today i've been dodging phone calls from various newspapers who wished me to remark upon your having said in Rolling Stone your Wrecking Ball video was designed to be similar to the one for Nothing Compares... So this is what I need to say... And it is said in the spirit of motherliness and with love.
I am extremely concerned for you that those around you have led you to believe, or encouraged you in your own belief, that it is in any way 'cool' to be naked and licking sledgehammers in your videos. It is in fact the case that you will obscure your talent by allowing yourself to be pimped, whether its the music business or yourself doing the pimping.
Nothing but harm will come in the long run, from allowing yourself to be exploited, and it is absolutely NOT in ANY way an empowerment of yourself or any other young women, for you to send across the message that you are to be valued (even by you) more for your sexual appeal than your obvious talent.
I am happy to hear I am somewhat of a role model for you and I hope that because of that you will pay close attention to what I am telling you.
The music business doesn't give a shit about you, or any of us. They will prostitute you for all you are worth, and cleverly make you think its what YOU wanted.. and when you end up in rehab as a result of being prostituted, 'they' will be sunning themselves on their yachts in Antigua, which they bought by selling your body and you will find yourself very alone.
None of the men oggling you give a shit about you either, do not be fooled. Many's the woman mistook lust for love. If they want you sexually that doesn't mean they give a fuck about you. All the more true when you unwittingly give the impression you don't give much of a fuck about yourself. And when you employ people who give the impression they don't give much of a fuck about you either. No one who cares about you could support your being pimped.. and that includes you yourself.
Yes, I'm suggesting you don't care for yourself. That has to change. You ought be protected as a precious young lady by anyone in your employ and anyone around you, including you. This is a dangerous world. We don't encourage our daughters to walk around naked in it because it makes them pray [sic] for animals and less than animals (a distressing majority of whom work in the music industry and the associated media).
You are worth more than your body or your sexual appeal. The world of showbiz doesn't see things that way, they like things to be seen the other way, whether they are magazines who want you on their cover, or whatever.. Don't be under any illusions.. ALL of them want you because they're making money off your youth and your beauty.. which they could not do except for the fact your youth makes you blind to the evils of show business. If you have an innocent heart you can't recognise those who do not.
I repeat, you have enough talent that you don't need to let the music business make a prostitute of you. You shouldn't let them make a fool of you either. Don't think for a moment that any of them give a flying fuck about you. They're there for the money.. we're there for the music. It has always been that way and it will always be that way. The sooner a young lady gets to know that, the sooner she can be REALLY in control.
You also said in Rolling Stone that your look is based on mine. The look I chose, I chose on purpose at a time when my record company were encouraging me to do what you have done. I felt I would rather be judged on my talent and not my looks. I am happy that I made that choice, not least because I do not find myself on the proverbial rag heap now that I am almost 47 yrs of age.. which unfortunately many female artists who have based their image around their sexuality, end up on when they reach middle age.
Real empowerment of yourself as a woman would be to in future refuse to exploit your body or your sexuality in order for men to make money from you. I needn't even ask the question.. I've been in the business long enough to know that men are making more money than you are from you getting naked. Its really not at all cool. And its sending dangerous signals to other young women. Please in future say no when you are asked to prostitute yourself. Your body is for you and your boyfriend. It isn't for every spunk-spewing dirtbag on the net, or every greedy record company executive to buy his mistresses diamonds with.
As for the shedding of the Hannah Montana image.. whoever is telling you getting naked is the way to do that does absolutely NOT respect your talent, or you as a young lady. Your records are good enough for you not to need any shedding of Hannah Montana. She's waaaaaaay gone by now.. Not because you got naked but because you make great records.
Whether we like it or not, us females in the industry are role models and as such we have to be extremely careful what messages we send to other women. The message you keep sending is that its somehow cool to be prostituted.. its so not cool Miley.. its dangerous. Women are to be valued for so much more than their sexuality. we aren't merely objects of desire. I would be encouraging you to send healthier messages to your peers.. that they and you are worth more than what is currently going on in your career. Kindly fire any motherfucker who hasn't expressed alarm, because they don't care about you.
Nice to see gals who rip up pictures of the pope on live tv can still become conservative in their twilight years.
-
She's a conservative Irish mammy, drawing on her own terrible experiences with the music industry. I'd be interested in a response if MC Hammer gives one.
Nah, because the template has already been established by Britney Spears, Justin Bieber, Christine Aguilera. There is a point where you. are SUPPOSED to do the 180 from the child star image. Yes, some of that is motivated by the child him or herself wanting to be seen as an adult. But the record companies know that this will also generate attention and sales.
Also, Sinead does mention a couple of times in her letter that it may well be Miley herself oimping herself out, but doesn't negate the points she is making.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 04:12:18 PM
Nah, because the template has already been established by Britney Spears, Justin Bieber, Christine Aguilera. There is a point where you. are SUPPOSED to do the 180 from the child star image. Yes, some of that is motivated by the child him or herself wanting to be seen as an adult. But the record companies know that this will also generate attention and sales.
Also, Sinead does mention a couple of times in her letter that it may well be Miley herself oimping herself out, but doesn't negate the points she is making.
Except it does. Miley is an adult now, and has been heading in this direction for a long time. It's her body and her image, and she can portray herself any damn well way she pleases. Do guys get off on it? Sure a hell of a lot do, I'm sure a lot of women do as well, but that's not the point. Miley can do as she pleases, and people's reactions are their own to take responsibility for.
She's young, feeling wild, and has a great body. If I looked like her at that age, or even now dammit, I would do the exact same thing.
Sinead giving advice to anyone about anything is sort of :horrormirth:
I'm not sure if this qualifies, but did Sinead just try to slut-shame Miley?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies, but did Sinead just try to slut-shame Miley?
It sure read that way to me.
Even Cher had the compassion to try to take back the slut-shaming she did on Miley.
It's worth asking --- is Miley "setting a good example for other girls"?
She may be owning her own fame, and I doubt she's suffering personally from objectifying & marketing herself
there is a larger discussion about sexuality in culture - cosmo magazine, the red carpet, the problem that few women become famous without being "hot" -- some women may be empowered by the commercial value of hot teen sexuality, others are made uncomfortable in their own skin.
I'm not sure that pop stars actually have any responsibility to be good role models. I'm not a parent, so this is unfamiliar territory to me -- how do you explain the transition from hannah montana to dammmmmn girl to a young teenager who is still figuring out sexuality? Would love to hear some parents opinions.
My cousin is like 14 years old, and I think her room is decorated floor to ceiling in hannah montana merch. I wonder how her mom is helping her navigate between scylla and charybdis.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
It's worth asking --- is Miley "setting a good example for other girls"?
She may be owning her own fame, and I doubt she's suffering personally from objectifying & marketing herself
there is a larger discussion about sexuality in culture - cosmo magazine, the red carpet, the problem that few women become famous without being "hot" -- some women may be empowered by the commercial value of hot teen sexuality, others are made uncomfortable in their own skin.
I'm not sure that pop stars actually have any responsibility to be good role models. I'm not a parent, so this is unfamiliar territory to me -- how do you explain the transition from hannah montana to dammmmmn girl to a young teenager who is still figuring out sexuality? Would love to hear some parents opinions.
My cousin is like 14 years old, and I think her room is decorated floor to ceiling in hannah montana merch. I wonder how her mom is helping her navigate between scylla and charybdis.
Personally, I don't think they do.
I'm no parent either, but if I was, I would have been trying to teach him or her that Miley got to where she is now through nepotism, and not genuine talent... that's not really an admirable way to break into any business. So, I don't know that she was really all that much of a role model before all this happened.
There's room for Miley's sexuality. Perhaps a better strategy would be for people to start talking about how hot Rebel Wilson is, despite being massively over what we now call the obesity line. Yes, I know I am placing Miley and Rebel on a pedestal about looks at the moment, but that's my point here... People like the way Miley looks (or a lot do, anyway), whereas people like Rebel (who is gorgeous) get sort of made fun of and ridiculed. That, to me, is a worse message for the kids.
Sexuality is so much more complicated than Miley Cyrus I can't even imagine her having a dent on the hugeness of that ongoing struggle to teach your kids to have fun and be safe. It starts early on, teaching them to respect other people as people, to only play games that everyone's agreed to the rules of, to use your words when you're upset. You teach them to set rules for themselves, and if Miley comes up at all it's in the context of "her rules are not your rules, and that's fine." Later on it's talking about the law and why the laws are written that way and why it's a terrible idea to send anyone naked pictures of your teenage ass, and the Streisand Effect and why if you give your tits to the internet, they belong to the internet forever and that's just a thing you have to be okay with or never take those pictures. It's talking about how to smell a bastard coming, and knowing they'll have plenty of experience with bastards by the time they're settled down. It's about learning how to argue and the difference between assertive and passive-aggressive, and that there's a vast gulf between "attracted to" and "in love with" and everyone has to navigate that shit on their own, wear a hat. It's about being aware of the signals your clothing choices send, and learning to feel comfortable in your changing skin. It's using phrases like "if you get married, if you have kids, if you like kissing boys."
It's kinda rambly because PUBERTY IS COMING and like all major changes I feel totally unprepared, so there's a lot in my head and most of it isn't organized well yet.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
I'm not a parent, so this is unfamiliar territory to me -- how do you explain the transition from hannah montana to dammmmmn girl to a young teenager who is still figuring out sexuality? Would love to hear some parents opinions.
It really depends on what part of that process is most salient to the teenager in question, and how they feel about it.
Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 04:50:19 PM
Sexuality is so much more complicated than Miley Cyrus I can't even imagine her having a dent on the hugeness of that ongoing struggle to teach your kids to have fun and be safe. It starts early on, teaching them to respect other people as people, to only play games that everyone's agreed to the rules of, to use your words when you're upset. You teach them to set rules for themselves, and if Miley comes up at all it's in the context of "her rules are not your rules, and that's fine." Later on it's talking about the law and why the laws are written that way and why it's a terrible idea to send anyone naked pictures of your teenage ass, and the Streisand Effect and why if you give your tits to the internet, they belong to the internet forever and that's just a thing you have to be okay with or never take those pictures. It's talking about how to smell a bastard coming, and knowing they'll have plenty of experience with bastards by the time they're settled down. It's about learning how to argue and the difference between assertive and passive-aggressive, and that there's a vast gulf between "attracted to" and "in love with" and everyone has to navigate that shit on their own, wear a hat. It's about being aware of the signals your clothing choices send, and learning to feel comfortable in your changing skin. It's using phrases like "if you get married, if you have kids, if you like kissing boys."
It's kinda rambly because PUBERTY IS COMING and like all major changes I feel totally unprepared, so there's a lot in my head and most of it isn't organized well yet.
This whole post is full of so much awesome and win, I'm quoting just for the hell of it!
Yay helping!
I'm kinda digging that my hip and progressive FB friends are going with the "mainstream" view that Miley has no agency.
Sadly, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about calling them on it.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 05:55:23 PM
I'm kinda digging that my hip and progressive FB friends are going with the "mainstream" view that Miley has no agency.
Sadly, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about calling them on it.
Why? I'd be dragging them around by the heels all fucking night.
"You know, Roger, it's really hard to like you sometimes."
- Trevor, back in Illinois, 2004.
To imply that she has no agency by virtue of her celebrity is to imply that Einstien didn't have any, either.
I don't have enough Tucson spores yet.
Also, complication: although I can't verify, it seems Miley responded to Sinead by screencapping the latter's biopolar breakdown on Twitter and retweeting it, comparing her to Amanda Bynes (a teen actress who is currently getting treatment for a whole boatload of mental stuff).
(potentially) Dick move, Miley.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
I don't have enough Tucson spores yet.
Also, complication: although I can't verify, it seems Miley responded to Sinead by screencapping the latter's biopolar breakdown on Twitter and retweeting it, comparing her to Amanda Bynes (a teen actress who is currently getting treatment for a whole boatload of mental stuff).
(potentially) Dick move, Miley.
Agency doesn't preclude dickishness.
Yes, but it does indicate a check mark in the "not a clever troll exposing the creepy entertainment System but just another self-important rich girl appropriating better ideas" column.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:08:53 PM
Yes, but it does indicate a check mark in the "not a clever troll exposing the creepy entertainment System but just another self-important rich girl appropriating better ideas" column.
I don't see how that follows.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 05:55:23 PM
I'm kinda digging that my hip and progressive FB friends are going with the "mainstream" view that Miley has no agency.
Sadly, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about calling them on it.
A lot of people think the left doesn't contain conservatism. It does. Oh, it does.
I look at her behavior, and ask which is more probable. Later priors (in the Bayesian sense) include her giving a sly wink with the "I win" quote, and the struggle it took her to make the video, which increases the probability of "clever troll". Other priors, such as mocking Sinead's mental illness as a petty jab increase the probability of "entitled narcissist".
Just the way I think these days, I guess.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
It's worth asking --- is Miley "setting a good example for other girls"?
She may be owning her own fame, and I doubt she's suffering personally from objectifying & marketing herself
there is a larger discussion about sexuality in culture - cosmo magazine, the red carpet, the problem that few women become famous without being "hot" -- some women may be empowered by the commercial value of hot teen sexuality, others are made uncomfortable in their own skin.
I'm not sure that pop stars actually have any responsibility to be good role models. I'm not a parent, so this is unfamiliar territory to me -- how do you explain the transition from hannah montana to dammmmmn girl to a young teenager who is still figuring out sexuality? Would love to hear some parents opinions.
My cousin is like 14 years old, and I think her room is decorated floor to ceiling in hannah montana merch. I wonder how her mom is helping her navigate between scylla and charybdis.
My 15-year-old says "Teenagers are going through the exact same transition, so they don't need to have it explained. You don't have to explain something to someone when they are going through it and know what it's like".
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
It's worth asking --- is Miley "setting a good example for other girls"?
It's also worth asking "Should a person SHUT UP for the sake of that example?"
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies, but did Sinead just try to slut-shame Miley?
Yes. She basically used a lot of words to say "cover yourself child, for shame".
Because, you see, women's sexuality is
about men. Right?
I don't think many people can think past that point, yet.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies, but did Sinead just try to slut-shame Miley?
Yes. She basically used a lot of words to say "cover yourself child, for shame".
Because, you see, women's sexuality is about men. Right?
I don't think many people can think past that point, yet.
Yeah, I caught that right away. Which means this place has had SOME influence on me.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:15:16 PM
I look at her behavior, and ask which is more probable. Later priors (in the Bayesian sense) include her giving a sly wink with the "I win" quote, and the struggle it took her to make the video, which increases the probability of "clever troll". Other priors, such as mocking Sinead's mental illness as a petty jab increase the probability of "entitled narcissist".
Just the way I think these days, I guess.
Those probabilities are not independent, though. There is such a thing as a narcissistic clever troll, or even an entitled narcissistic clever troll.
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on October 03, 2013, 06:24:44 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:15:16 PM
I look at her behavior, and ask which is more probable. Later priors (in the Bayesian sense) include her giving a sly wink with the "I win" quote, and the struggle it took her to make the video, which increases the probability of "clever troll". Other priors, such as mocking Sinead's mental illness as a petty jab increase the probability of "entitled narcissist".
Just the way I think these days, I guess.
Those probabilities are not independent, though. There is such a thing as a narcissistic clever troll, or even an entitled narcissistic clever troll.
Personally I think she started out in this sincerely, but I think she has transitioned into troll recently. Whether its clever or not remains to be seen for me.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 06:01:55 PM
To imply that she has no agency by virtue of her celebrity is to imply that Einstien didn't have any, either.
Bingo
My question to these people is, what is the reason you believe that Miley has no agency? Is it because she's female? Is it her age? What makes her different from, say, Justin Beiber, roughly her age, about whom people have a completely different attitude (and who actually seems to be on a ski slope of self-destruction)? Is it "the music industry", which implies that no big-label musician has agency (and boy, that has ramifications...)?
Frankly, I think it's pretty obvious that it's because she's a young woman, and we are acculturated to see young women as OBJECTS, not as people who make decisions and exert control. The idea that Miley has agency that translates to power and control over the direction of her own career is very threatening, it upsets the status quo. It's much, much safer and easier to dismiss her actions as being that of a mere puppet, controlled safely by one or more middle-aged white men behind the scenes, the way things are supposed to be.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
I don't have enough Tucson spores yet.
Also, complication: although I can't verify, it seems Miley responded to Sinead by screencapping the latter's biopolar breakdown on Twitter and retweeting it, comparing her to Amanda Bynes (a teen actress who is currently getting treatment for a whole boatload of mental stuff).
(potentially) Dick move, Miley.
Dick move, maybe, but :lulz:
Simply because O'Connor wrote that "motherly" (and unbearably condescending and priggish) letter in the tone that butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, along with a vibe of "I'm still somebody, not like those other middle-aged pop stars" and "you'll end up in rehab". But she's a giant hypocrite, and Miley pointed that out without saying a word.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:08:53 PM
Yes, but it does indicate a check mark in the "not a clever troll exposing the creepy entertainment System but just another self-important rich girl appropriating better ideas" column.
Yes, yes it does. In my opinion, it has been the latter from the start. I don't think it is a clever troll at all. I think she's basically a pop-music Spinal Tap, except, the character and actor are one and the same.
I had a very low opinion of Miley before I read this thread - largely based on seeing Charlie Brooker talk about Hannah Montana. I didn't (think) I needed to know anything else about her.
I'm amazed. If this wasn't deliberate, she wouldn't have fought so hard to get it made. If she were just in it for the money, or to please her producers, God knows there's far easier ways for her to do that. She obviously felt that she had something to say, and she worked hard to find a way to say it - maybe one of the first things she's done creatively that she wanted to do, rather than someone else wanted her to do. I can respect the hell out of that.
And... I think she actually has more agency than Bieber, or most 'manufactured' artists. Not many groups go to lengths like deliberately misleading the money to produce something they want made.
It'll be interesting to see where she goes from here. I really hope that her teaser about working on bigger and better things comes to something...
... and if you'd told me a week ago that I'd be even vaguely interested in anything she might have had to say I'd have laughed in your face. That's an impressive about-turn.
Nope, (see also Justin Bieber).
Because, IMO, based upon observation, I don't think she's that deep. She comes off as yet-another entitled, rich, self-absorbed celebrity douchebag.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 06:51:07 PM
Nope, (see also Justin Bieber).
Because, IMO, based upon observation, I don't think she's that deep. She comes off as yet-another entitled, rich, self-absorbed celebrity douchebag.
Sorry, if you can state authoritatively the motives of someone you've never met, I can certainly state your motives, given your track record of misogyny.
So again: Because female.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 06:51:07 PM
Nope
You know, you can basically replace every comment you've made in this thread with this word and you wouldn't lose much, if any, content.
When you can replace your contribution with an automated macro, you might want to rethink making it. Just saying.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 03, 2013, 06:58:06 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 06:51:07 PM
Nope
You know, you can basically replace every comment you've made in this thread with this word and you wouldn't lose much, if any, content.
When you can replace your contribution with an automated macro, you might want to rethink making it. Just saying.
Also, the false equivalence is funny, given that Justin Beiber has done nothing like what Miley Cyrus did.
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
I just want to note for the record that
by posting pop celeb gossip, a little part of myself has died and is twerking in hell
ANYWAY (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/miley-cyrus-on-why-she-loves-weed-went-wild-at-the-vmas-and-much-more-20130927)
Miley just got her 10th tattoo
(http://assets-s3.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/see-miley-cyrus-outrageous-rolling-stone-tattoo-20130924/1000x600/20130924-mileyfeet-x600-1380034231.jpg)
---probably commenting on the rolling stone cover piece which boosted her fame?
that's a chip in the "artful troll" column
QuoteON HER VMAS PERFORMANCE
I know what I'm doing. I know I'm shocking you. When I'm dressed in that teddy bear thing, I think that's funny. I was saying yesterday, I had this obsession about this character that's like an adult baby. Like if you see a baby do something like that it's so warped and weird, but there's something creepily hot about it. So when I'm in that teddy bear suit, I'm like a creepy, sexy baby. But I forget that it's, like, people in Kansas watching the show. That people sit their kid in front of the TV and are like, "Oh, an awards show! Let's watch."
another chip in the troll pile
QuoteON HER FAMOUS TONGUE
I just stick my tongue out because I hate smiling in pictures. It's so awkward. It looks so cheesy. Now people expect it, like, "Put your tongue out!" It's just easier that way. Taking pictures is so embarrassing. But there's also something about it that I think is cool. Every other girl is so serious – like, this is my moment on the red carpet, I'm in my ball gown, looking pretty. There's something empowering about what I'm doing right now. Especially having "short hair don't care." I think it's empowering for girls. Because there's not one thing that defines what beauty is.
:troll:
That's an insightful comment. Clarifies that she
was trying to be "grotesque", specifically to make people uncomfortable -- as we discussed earlier ITT.
QuoteON MEDIA OUTRAGE
I think it's all marketing. If a website is like, "We love Miley's performance!" I don't think people are gonna click on it. "Miley's cute performance with teddy bears!" – no one is gonna click on that. So I think it's the media riling up the people, rather than people riling up the media. And what makes me kind of sick is, Trayvon Martin's trial didn't happen more than two months ago. It got talked about a lot – but it still got done being talked about a lot quicker than the VMAs. And that's really sad. For about two days, it was on Twitter and everything, everyone had their pictures as Trayvon – and then two days later, where was it? Who cared anymore? Even I was like, "I want to help his family when it's an appropriate time." But then people just forgot. It slips your mind. We go on to the next thing, our next problem. It's like, "Why are we not still dealing with that? Why are we not still mourning that loss?"
QuoteON HER DAD'S RELUCTANCE TO LET HER BE IN SHOW BUSINESS
I think if he'd known how it was going to pan out, he would have let me. It's more that he didn't necessarily want me to. It's almost like Toddlers and Tiaras – getting the little kids all dolled up and putting so much pressure on them to win. He didn't want me ever to feel . . . the right word isn't "pageant-y," but I don't think he wanted me to feel like I had to be a certain way. Even when it comes to growing up – like, I didn't really start dressing myself until I was fucking 16. I always had a stylist. So I think my dad wanted me to figure out all that out on my own. To go through my awkward stages without people zooming in on every fucking pimple. I think he wanted me to be able to be a kid and have braces and go through my ugly phase, without people talking about it. To be able to just hang and live.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
No.
Because she's awful.
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 07:03:36 PM
I just want to note for the record that
by posting pop celeb gossip, a little part of myself has died and is twerking in hell
ANYWAY (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/miley-cyrus-on-why-she-loves-weed-went-wild-at-the-vmas-and-much-more-20130927)
Miley just got her 10th tattoo
(http://assets-s3.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/see-miley-cyrus-outrageous-rolling-stone-tattoo-20130924/1000x600/20130924-mileyfeet-x600-1380034231.jpg)
---probably commenting on the rolling stone cover piece which boosted her fame?
that's a chip in the "artful troll" column
QuoteON HER VMAS PERFORMANCE
I know what I'm doing. I know I'm shocking you. When I'm dressed in that teddy bear thing, I think that's funny. I was saying yesterday, I had this obsession about this character that's like an adult baby. Like if you see a baby do something like that it's so warped and weird, but there's something creepily hot about it. So when I'm in that teddy bear suit, I'm like a creepy, sexy baby. But I forget that it's, like, people in Kansas watching the show. That people sit their kid in front of the TV and are like, "Oh, an awards show! Let's watch."
another chip in the troll pile
QuoteON HER FAMOUS TONGUE
I just stick my tongue out because I hate smiling in pictures. It's so awkward. It looks so cheesy. Now people expect it, like, "Put your tongue out!" It's just easier that way. Taking pictures is so embarrassing. But there's also something about it that I think is cool. Every other girl is so serious – like, this is my moment on the red carpet, I'm in my ball gown, looking pretty. There's something empowering about what I'm doing right now. Especially having "short hair don't care." I think it's empowering for girls. Because there's not one thing that defines what beauty is.
:troll:
That's an insightful comment. Clarifies that she was trying to be "grotesque", specifically to make people uncomfortable -- as we discussed earlier ITT.
QuoteON MEDIA OUTRAGE
I think it's all marketing. If a website is like, "We love Miley's performance!" I don't think people are gonna click on it. "Miley's cute performance with teddy bears!" – no one is gonna click on that. So I think it's the media riling up the people, rather than people riling up the media. And what makes me kind of sick is, Trayvon Martin's trial didn't happen more than two months ago. It got talked about a lot – but it still got done being talked about a lot quicker than the VMAs. And that's really sad. For about two days, it was on Twitter and everything, everyone had their pictures as Trayvon – and then two days later, where was it? Who cared anymore? Even I was like, "I want to help his family when it's an appropriate time." But then people just forgot. It slips your mind. We go on to the next thing, our next problem. It's like, "Why are we not still dealing with that? Why are we not still mourning that loss?"
QuoteON HER DAD'S RELUCTANCE TO LET HER BE IN SHOW BUSINESS
I think if he'd known how it was going to pan out, he would have let me. It's more that he didn't necessarily want me to. It's almost like Toddlers and Tiaras – getting the little kids all dolled up and putting so much pressure on them to win. He didn't want me ever to feel . . . the right word isn't "pageant-y," but I don't think he wanted me to feel like I had to be a certain way. Even when it comes to growing up – like, I didn't really start dressing myself until I was fucking 16. I always had a stylist. So I think my dad wanted me to figure out all that out on my own. To go through my awkward stages without people zooming in on every fucking pimple. I think he wanted me to be able to be a kid and have braces and go through my ugly phase, without people talking about it. To be able to just hang and live.
Thanks for sacrificing your eternal soul to tease out a little more insight into her awareness and motivations.
I think she's a damn smart young lady who has a very clear idea of what she's doing. She's young, yes, and exploratory... but it's pretty clear that she has a taste for the absurd and the terrible, she's setting out to disturb people, and she's succeeding.
In other words, she's totally awesome.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
No.
Because she's awful.
So you are saying that everyone else's perceptions of her, and her own perceptions of herself and her statements about her own actions and motivation, are all wrong, because you don't see it?
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
No.
Because she's awful.
The amazing bit is just how many women you've reference whom you find to be awful, verses all zero women you've reference whom you find to be awesome.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 07:13:10 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
No.
Because she's awful.
So you are saying that everyone else's perceptions of her, and her own perceptions of herself and her statements about her own actions and motivation, are all wrong, because you don't see it?
Because female.
That tattoo... :lulz:
Yeah, there's no way she's doing anything other than trolling. Everything about that photo is just perfect.
Thanks for looking that up, Cram!
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 07:13:10 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 07:07:57 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 03, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Yeah, if you agree with the opinion that she "did" anything any other former child pop-star has done.
Which, in your eyes, is impossible, because she's female.
No.
Because she's awful.
So you are saying that everyone else's perceptions of her, and her own perceptions of herself and her statements about her own actions and motivation, are all wrong, because you don't see it?
I think RWHNs continued hate-on should be a mark in the 'artful troll' column too. He's clearly one of the target groups, here.
:deadhorse:
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 03, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
I think RWHNs continued hate-on should be a mark in the 'artful troll' column too. He's clearly one of the target groups, here.
:potd:
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 07:03:36 PM
I just want to note for the record that
by posting pop celeb gossip, a little part of myself has died and is twerking in hell
ANYWAY (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/miley-cyrus-on-why-she-loves-weed-went-wild-at-the-vmas-and-much-more-20130927)
Miley just got her 10th tattoo
(http://assets-s3.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/see-miley-cyrus-outrageous-rolling-stone-tattoo-20130924/1000x600/20130924-mileyfeet-x600-1380034231.jpg)
---probably commenting on the rolling stone cover piece which boosted her fame?
that's a chip in the "artful troll" column
QuoteON HER VMAS PERFORMANCE
I know what I'm doing. I know I'm shocking you. When I'm dressed in that teddy bear thing, I think that's funny. I was saying yesterday, I had this obsession about this character that's like an adult baby. Like if you see a baby do something like that it's so warped and weird, but there's something creepily hot about it. So when I'm in that teddy bear suit, I'm like a creepy, sexy baby. But I forget that it's, like, people in Kansas watching the show. That people sit their kid in front of the TV and are like, "Oh, an awards show! Let's watch."
another chip in the troll pile
QuoteON HER FAMOUS TONGUE
I just stick my tongue out because I hate smiling in pictures. It's so awkward. It looks so cheesy. Now people expect it, like, "Put your tongue out!" It's just easier that way. Taking pictures is so embarrassing. But there's also something about it that I think is cool. Every other girl is so serious – like, this is my moment on the red carpet, I'm in my ball gown, looking pretty. There's something empowering about what I'm doing right now. Especially having "short hair don't care." I think it's empowering for girls. Because there's not one thing that defines what beauty is.
:troll:
That's an insightful comment. Clarifies that she was trying to be "grotesque", specifically to make people uncomfortable -- as we discussed earlier ITT.
QuoteON MEDIA OUTRAGE
I think it's all marketing. If a website is like, "We love Miley's performance!" I don't think people are gonna click on it. "Miley's cute performance with teddy bears!" – no one is gonna click on that. So I think it's the media riling up the people, rather than people riling up the media. And what makes me kind of sick is, Trayvon Martin's trial didn't happen more than two months ago. It got talked about a lot – but it still got done being talked about a lot quicker than the VMAs. And that's really sad. For about two days, it was on Twitter and everything, everyone had their pictures as Trayvon – and then two days later, where was it? Who cared anymore? Even I was like, "I want to help his family when it's an appropriate time." But then people just forgot. It slips your mind. We go on to the next thing, our next problem. It's like, "Why are we not still dealing with that? Why are we not still mourning that loss?"
QuoteON HER DAD'S RELUCTANCE TO LET HER BE IN SHOW BUSINESS
I think if he'd known how it was going to pan out, he would have let me. It's more that he didn't necessarily want me to. It's almost like Toddlers and Tiaras – getting the little kids all dolled up and putting so much pressure on them to win. He didn't want me ever to feel . . . the right word isn't "pageant-y," but I don't think he wanted me to feel like I had to be a certain way. Even when it comes to growing up – like, I didn't really start dressing myself until I was fucking 16. I always had a stylist. So I think my dad wanted me to figure out all that out on my own. To go through my awkward stages without people zooming in on every fucking pimple. I think he wanted me to be able to be a kid and have braces and go through my ugly phase, without people talking about it. To be able to just hang and live.
Well I'll admit it took a while, but I'm convinced. This girl is fucking great.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 06:15:27 PM
My 15-year-old says "Teenagers are going through the exact same transition, so they don't need to have it explained. You don't have to explain something to someone when they are going through it and know what it's like".
This has been bouncing around in my skull since I read it. It sums up SO MUCH about the trouble people have trying to communicate with each other, especially 'adults' to 'kids'.
Amanda Palmer just HAD to say something.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/amanda_palmers_3.html
It's hella long-- if someone could pull good bits, I'd appreciate it.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 11:53:52 PM
Amanda Palmer just HAD to say something.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/amanda_palmers_3.html
It's hella long-- if someone could pull good bits, I'd appreciate it.
Still reading but I think this is a good bit.
QuoteDo I want a whole generation of teenagers looking at Miley Cyrus to determine that the only way to get hits and hawk your music is to rip your clothes off and wiggle around as violently and loudly as possible? (And while we're at it - while weighing close to nothing and looking perfectly manicured without a single eyelash or molecule of mascara out of place even when a tear rolls down your face?)
Fuck no. But I don't want to tell them it's wrong, either, because like I said: the field has to encompass EVERYTHING. There's no way Miley is going to read your letter and turn around saying "holy shit, they've been taking advantage of me this whole time!" She's been taking advantage of herself, of her youth, her fame and her sexuality...and she knows it. We females all do this, to some extent, and we just want to feel like it's our hand on the joystick. Telling her that her team is to blame is telling her that she's not steering her own career and decisions, and I think she'll just feel patronized.
QuoteHere's where I think you're off target. Miley is, from what I can gather, in charge of her own show. She's writing the plot and signing the checks, and although I think it's tempting to imagine her in the board room of label assholes and management, I don't think any of them masterminded her current plan to be a raging, naked, twerking sexpot. I think that's All Miley All The Way. Now, would these men ARGUE with her when she comes into the room and throws down her treatment to hop up naked on the proverbial (and literal) wrecking ball? Of course not. Sex sells. We all know it. Miley knows it better than anyone: swinging naked on a big metal ball simply gets you more hits than swinging on a big metal ball wearing clothes. We're mammals. LOOK BOOBS! And even more tantalizing: LOOK HANNAH MONTANA BOOBS! But none of this means that Miley is following anyone else's script. In fact, what I see is Miley desperately trying to write her own script; truly trying to be taken seriously (even if its in a nakedly playful way) by the standards of her own peers.
QuoteIt is always my fantasy that we can take these painful experiences and feed them back to the upcoming generation of women rockers in a way that creates a larger playing field instead of a smaller one. I want female musicians to feel like they can do MORE with their mad artistic energy, not LESS. I want women to feel less trapped inside their bodies, less afraid to express themselves, less afraid to be nailed to the cross of the cultural beauty standard. But that necessarily means there needs to be room on the vast playing field for Adele to wear a conservative suit, room for Lady Gaga to do naked performance art in the woods, room for PJ Harvey to wear high-collared 18th century jackets on stage, room for Natasha Kahn to pose boldly naked on the cover of her last record, and room for Miley to rip a page out of stripper culture and run around like a maniac for however long she wants to.
QuoteDo I want a whole generation of teenagers looking at Miley Cyrus to determine that the only way to get hits and hawk your music is to rip your clothes off and wiggle around as violently and loudly as possible? (And while we're at it - while weighing close to nothing and looking perfectly manicured without a single eyelash or molecule of mascara out of place even when a tear rolls down your face?)
Fuck no. But I don't want to tell them it's wrong, either, because like I said: the field has to encompass EVERYTHING. There's no way Miley is going to read your letter and turn around saying "holy shit, they've been taking advantage of me this whole time!" She's been taking advantage of herself, of her youth, her fame and her sexuality...and she knows it. We females all do this, to some extent, and we just want to feel like it's our hand on the joystick. Telling her that her team is to blame is telling her that she's not steering her own career and decisions, and I think she'll just feel patronized.
MC posted this on her twitter a few hours ago. I do find the letter she sent rich, seeing as she is still the biggest attention whore in Ireland.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVqeKkhIAAAlVwQ.jpg:large)
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 06:17:56 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on October 03, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
It's worth asking --- is Miley "setting a good example for other girls"?
It's also worth asking "Should a person SHUT UP for the sake of that example?"
That whole letter read like SHUT UP to me. There was a lot of truth in it, like the business not giving a fuck about anybody, etc., etc., (which Miley would have known from a very early age anyway, having spent her childhood working for the Mouse Corp.) but the truth was used as leverage to say "You look like a bitchwhore. SHUT UP." Fake "I care very very muches" directed at someone Sinead states she doesn't know at all were another tipoff, or at least that was the feeling I got reading the thing.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies, but did Sinead just try to slut-shame Miley?
Yes. She basically used a lot of words to say "cover yourself child, for shame".
Because, you see, women's sexuality is about men. Right?
I don't think many people can think past that point, yet.
AND THIS. SO FUCKING MUCH
THIS.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
I don't have enough Tucson spores yet.
Also, complication: although I can't verify, it seems Miley responded to Sinead by screencapping the latter's biopolar breakdown on Twitter and retweeting it, comparing her to Amanda Bynes (a teen actress who is currently getting treatment for a whole boatload of mental stuff).
(potentially) Dick move, Miley.
Dick move, maybe, but :lulz:
Simply because O'Connor wrote that "motherly" (and unbearably condescending and priggish) letter in the tone that butter wouldn't melt in her mouth, along with a vibe of "I'm still somebody, not like those other middle-aged pop stars" and "you'll end up in rehab". But she's a giant hypocrite, and Miley pointed that out without saying a word.
Yep. Dickishness is the proper reaction to a pile of passive-aggressive steaming crap.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 11:53:52 PM
Amanda Palmer just HAD to say something.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/amanda_palmers_3.html
It's hella long-- if someone could pull good bits, I'd appreciate it.
It's a damn good letter, IMO.
Also, I know people hate Amanda Palmer but so far the only reason I can discern is because she's "too self-promoting", which is hilarious because as a female artist it seems like the choices are "be too self-promoting" or "be a tool of the music industry". Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
That emote where the two women are aghast, and the dude grins real big.
/phone/memory fail.
Quote from: Alty on October 04, 2013, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
That emote where the two women are aghast, and the dude grins real big.
/phone/memory fail.
:peedee:
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:25:21 AM
Quote from: Alty on October 04, 2013, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
That emote where the two women are aghast, and the dude grins real big.
/phone/memory fail.
:peedee:
Peedee, of course.
Also, this.
I've done some hating on Palmer, but I have a feeling she nails it this time.
I have no problem liking this about her and not liking other things about her. In this, she's right.
Before I caught up on this thread I was of the mind that whether or not Miley was intentionally trolling us, viewing the entire saga as satire was too beautiful to look at it any other way. Cram's post upthread had some brilliant stuff.
I don't know whether some of the deeper satire of the industry, which has been part of our interpretation of the piece, is intentional but it's pretty clear that she's just fucking with everyone. I was really put off by the retweets, because I read it as O'Connor framed it, as a mockery of mental illness. I still couldn't say how much malice there was in the retweet, the "Just like Amanda Bynes" part still rubs me the wrong way, but as a means of highlighting hypocrisy, it seems rather effective.
http://www.today.com/entertainment/sinead-oconner-slams-miley-cyrus-again-threatens-legal-action-8C11336391
HAW HAW HAW!
O'Connor is threatening to sue Cyrus for "re-tweeting" O'Connor.
Wow.
So much lulz there.
O'Connor is now determined to spank Cyrus, "put her in her place".
This actually to me validates my perspective on Cyrus' actions being a disruption of the power balance. O'Connor isn't angry because Cyrus re-tweeted her old meltdown tweets, she's angry because Cyrus doesn't know her place as a young, powerless woman. So she's going to SHOW HER.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:47:39 PM
O'Connor is now determined to spank Cyrus, "put her in her place".
This actually to me validates my perspective on Cyrus' actions being a disruption of the power balance. O'Connor isn't angry because Cyrus re-tweeted her old meltdown tweets, she's angry because Cyrus doesn't know her place as a young, powerless woman. So she's going to SHOW HER.
Precisely my take on it. She's gonna tell her WHAT.
An interesting short analysis at the boingboing blog (http://boingboing.net/2013/10/04/sinead-oconnor-threatens-to.html)
QuoteMiley Cyrus succeeds at a form of celebrity shock behavior that Sinead O'Connor often attempts and fails at. And O'Connor has reason to object beyond mere artistic propriety. Cyrus is transitively self-aware, like the kind of dialogue that Quentin Tarantino reserves for dangerous old men: Miley Cyrus is the music industry's critique of Sinead O'Connor.
Moreover, the younger singer obviously knows what has been and is done to both of them. If you read O'Connor's letter again, you'll see her figure that out as she goes along. But she's too committed to the message to stop. She's talking to herself: a different, younger self.
There is more like that at the article. I thought it was very insightful.
That's pretty great. Sinead was idealistic, and was hurt by the industry. Miley GREW UP in the industry, and knows the score.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 05:54:02 PM
That's pretty great. Sinead was idealistic, and was hurt by the industry. Miley GREW UP in the industry, and knows the score.
Also, ripping up an image of a religious figure was okay, but making fun of creepers wasn't?
To be fair, there is an assumed difference between the political and religious fuckery in Ireland and the non-denominational, bipartisan fuckery of the music biz.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 06:20:28 PM
To be fair, there is an assumed difference between the political and religious fuckery in Ireland and the non-denominational, bipartisan fuckery of the music biz.
I don't see one. They're both power structures that crap on women.
I know. That why I used the word "assumed". If we don't expect people to know how to be bipedal, we can't expect them to make this distinction as well.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Celebs probably shouldn't given unsolicited advice to people they don't know if they aren't prepared for the likely response to be "fuck yourself".
Quote from: Hoopla on October 04, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Celebs probably shouldn't given unsolicited advice to people they don't know if they aren't prepared for the likely response to be "fuck yourself".
Well, this is another example of "pee-stained dentures". O'Connor feels that her sense of seniority has been violated.
Quote from: Hoopla on October 04, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Celebs probably shouldn't given unsolicited advice to people they don't know if they aren't prepared for the likely response to be "fuck yourself".
LIKE
I don't really know, or care, how this fits in with the thread's theme, but this review is fantastic.
Regardless of its opinion, it's just a great piece of writing.
http://www.letoilemagazine.com/2013/10/02/we-will-rock-you-miley-cyrus-new-record-is-fucking-horrible/
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
I don't really know, or care, how this fits in with the thread's theme, but this review is fantastic.
Regardless of its opinion, it's just a great piece of writing.
http://www.letoilemagazine.com/2013/10/02/we-will-rock-you-miley-cyrus-new-record-is-fucking-horrible/
:lulz:
That guy is awesome.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
I don't really know, or care, how this fits in with the thread's theme, but this review is fantastic.
Regardless of its opinion, it's just a great piece of writing.
http://www.letoilemagazine.com/2013/10/02/we-will-rock-you-miley-cyrus-new-record-is-fucking-horrible/
:lulz:
, I feel like I need this album.
"Like a clown farting."
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 09:11:49 PM
"Like a clown farting."
Or perhaps even the final end - at riflepoint, in a just world - ...
Quote from: Lord Cataplanga on October 04, 2013, 05:50:55 PM
An interesting short analysis at the boingboing blog (http://boingboing.net/2013/10/04/sinead-oconnor-threatens-to.html)
QuoteMiley Cyrus succeeds at a form of celebrity shock behavior that Sinead O'Connor often attempts and fails at. And O'Connor has reason to object beyond mere artistic propriety. Cyrus is transitively self-aware, like the kind of dialogue that Quentin Tarantino reserves for dangerous old men: Miley Cyrus is the music industry's critique of Sinead O'Connor.
Moreover, the younger singer obviously knows what has been and is done to both of them. If you read O'Connor's letter again, you'll see her figure that out as she goes along. But she's too committed to the message to stop. She's talking to herself: a different, younger self.
There is more like that at the article. I thought it was very insightful.
That was a very good analysis of the interactions, in my opinion.
I also think it's likely that part of O'Connor's motivation was to deliberately start drama with Cyrus in order to coattail on her current media spotlight, as O'Connor currently lacks the pull to generate that level of buzz on her own and she has a tour coming up.
That might be granting O'Connor too much credit in the strategic thinking department, though.
I will, however, say that if they colluded to stage this, it's a brilliant publicity stunt. I don't get that vibe, though; I think O'Connor is actually having the meltdown she projected onto Cyrus.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 05:54:02 PM
That's pretty great. Sinead was idealistic, and was hurt by the industry. Miley GREW UP in the industry, and knows the score.
Also, ripping up an image of a religious figure was okay, but making fun of creepers wasn't?
Well, it's, you know,
different when she does things like that or like being naked in a music video.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 07:19:42 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on October 04, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Celebs probably shouldn't given unsolicited advice to people they don't know if they aren't prepared for the likely response to be "fuck yourself".
Well, this is another example of "pee-stained dentures". O'Connor feels that her sense of seniority has been violated.
Bingo.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
I don't really know, or care, how this fits in with the thread's theme, but this review is fantastic.
Regardless of its opinion, it's just a great piece of writing.
http://www.letoilemagazine.com/2013/10/02/we-will-rock-you-miley-cyrus-new-record-is-fucking-horrible/
:lulz:
That guy is awesome.
I laughed pretty hard right up until I got to the part where it's another incensed middle-aged man determined to deny that the little girl did it on purpose:
QuoteI am assuming the people who made this thing were professionals. Right? I briefly considered that maybe it was a joke, and that the joke was on Miley — that she assembled a team of producers who all got together at night over beers at Applebees and said "look, Miley wants to sound "urban" on this thing. We all know that's a terrible idea, right? So let's make the worst possible album for her, and just tell her it's "Dirty South" and maybe she's so clueless that she won't notice, and then we'll all meet back here in a month and laugh our asses off at the stupid blonde girl." And maybe that is what happened, but I think more likely it's a case of a bunch of producers — a bunch of them, there's like twenty of them credited — all trying to piece together a thing, and letting the twenty-year-old make too many creative decisions along the way, and then ten other people weighed in with ideas, and nobody ever told anybody no at any stage of the game, and probably they whooped it up with cocaine and "molly" at various points in the process, and what they ended up with was just a piece of shit mess, and because it sounded a little bit black, Miley was overjoyed and — just like in the joke scenario — failed to notice how terrible it was. And because the other guys got paid, and drove off in their expensive cars, even if they did notice it was fuck-awful, nobody ever told her. And then a bunch of executives figured "well, there's a couple of useable singles, and it'll sell a million copies before people notice it fucking sucks, so who cares — let's just crank this thing out and hope for the best and maybe she'll grind on someone else's penis on an awards show and we'll sell a few extra copies that day." In other words: this is "art" made by a committee on the most cynical level, trumpeted by a desperate industry who are also operating on the most cynical level at this point, and sung and performed by a very young, clueless, artless person who doesn't realize what she's doing on anything but the absolute basest level but has absolute free reign to indulge her every possible whim in an attempt to be "authentically urban."
Then I stopped laughing.
But the cover is fucking BRILLIANT. :lol:
And then some more desperate scrambling to discount Cyrus and deny that the problem is that actually, he doesn't get it because he's the butt of the joke:
QuoteThis disaster could have been avoided. Miley Cyrus has talent — I've heard her sing well before, there's evidence out there. She is, however, also two other things: a) twenty years old and b) not the fucking Beatles. Let's call a spade a spade here — she's a medium-talented pretty blonde girl, interchangeable with about four million other medium-talented pretty blonde girls.
Let's look at that cover again, shall we?
(http://www.letoilemagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/miley1n-4-web.jpg)
And his comment on it:
QuoteDoes this version of the album cover give off a grossly pedophaelic vibe to anybody else? Like maybe it's styled so she looks like a naked fourteen-year-old boy? GAHHH. Gross.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
For all I know, it might actually BE terrible. It wouldn't be the first time a young person's first solo album was terrible. But starting with his critique of the album cover, the whole review was basically him screeching because HE'S supposed to be the target audience for a young female pop star but her album ISN'T ABOUT HIM AT ALL, it isn't even PRETTY, it makes him feel CREEPY and besides it was made by a TALENTLESS LITTLE GIRL WHO ISN'T EVEN REALLY IN CHARGE. :lol:
I'll be curious to find out how her actual target audience, which doesn't seem to be teenage girls at all, but late teens/early 20's women, responds to it.
Quote from: Hoopla on October 04, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 05:18:51 AM
Aging pop-star meltdown ensues as O'Connor writes another open letter to Cyrus, who hasn't said anything at all but repost some old O'Connor attention-whoring: http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2013/10/sinead_oconnor_4.html
She's shrill, nasty and vindictive, makes vague threats, uses the word "unbecoming", and is essentially anything but mature. It's trainwrecky. She's actually engaging in a power-struggle that is bound to end in humiliation. I have never thought O'Connor was a particularly intelligent woman, although I did lover her music when I was young, and I'm quite certain she's nowhere close to as smart as Cyrus is, so I predict this will not end well.
Speaking of "unbecoming", a 47-year-old woman inciting a feud with a 20-year-old is... pathetic.
Celebs probably shouldn't given unsolicited advice to people they don't know if they aren't prepared for the likely response to be "fuck yourself".
:lulz:
I'm with LMNO. I don't agree with the guy, I just love his turn of phrase.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
For all I know, it might actually BE terrible. It wouldn't be the first time a young person's first solo album was terrible. But starting with his critique of the album cover, the whole review was basically him screeching because HE'S supposed to be the target audience for a young female pop star but her album ISN'T ABOUT HIM AT ALL, it isn't even PRETTY, it makes him feel CREEPY and besides it was made by a TALENTLESS LITTLE GIRL WHO ISN'T EVEN REALLY IN CHARGE. :lol:
I'll be curious to find out how her actual target audience, which doesn't seem to be teenage girls at all, but late teens/early 20's women, responds to it.
Industry-wise, he IS the target. Look at the other artists he spends time gushing about. Brittney Spears. Taylor Swift.
Frankly, Miley Cyrus's voice puts me right up a tree.
But that isn't the point.
I want to listen to it because the way he describes it is the way some woman poets could be described. and I think have been described in the 50s and 60s.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 09:58:50 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
For all I know, it might actually BE terrible. It wouldn't be the first time a young person's first solo album was terrible. But starting with his critique of the album cover, the whole review was basically him screeching because HE'S supposed to be the target audience for a young female pop star but her album ISN'T ABOUT HIM AT ALL, it isn't even PRETTY, it makes him feel CREEPY and besides it was made by a TALENTLESS LITTLE GIRL WHO ISN'T EVEN REALLY IN CHARGE. :lol:
I'll be curious to find out how her actual target audience, which doesn't seem to be teenage girls at all, but late teens/early 20's women, responds to it.
Industry-wise, he IS the target. Look at the other artists he spends time gushing about. Brittney Spears. Taylor Swift.
Yeah, but as we've discussed before in this thread and in the last one, that's exactly why people are freaking out so hard, is because she peeled back the vinyl. He's just doing more of the same. He's doing it in a funny way, but if you actually read what he's saying, he's still basically just throwing a fit because it isn't about him, and working himself up in a froth of denial that she could have done that on purpose.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 04, 2013, 10:02:39 PM
I want to listen to it because the way he describes it is the way some woman poets could be described. and I think have been described in the 50s and 60s.
YEP.
It's very very bad and it's awful and she'd just a little GIRL and she couldn't have done this on purpose, she doesn't know what she was doing and it's all her producers' faults for letting her get her frivolous little way too much! Plus also it's bad, and it makes me feel uncomfortable, and she didn't even have the manners to be PRETTY even though the cover is clearly styled after a fashion that was last popular when I was an adolescent!
Something is very very wrong here, I must trivialize it IMMEDIATELY.
Can we just revisit the sheer genius that is the cover, again?
(http://www.letoilemagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/miley1n-4-web.jpg)
Given the recurring pedo/creep theme that runs through her recent work, I think we should linger over this a bit. It's completely deliberate, she's said as much, so in that light:
Miami Vice-like stylings and color theme that were all the rage when men who are now middle-aged were young. In fact, this album cover reminds me so much of something from my youth that I anticipate finding that it was directly modeled off one from the 80's. Miley Cyrus posed, naked, unsexy, challenging the viewer, looking both boyish (a bit like Justin Beiber) and MUCH younger than her actual age. So she's combining a bunch of factors in a way that could only result in men who are way too old to be viewing her as a sex object being made incredibly uncomfortable. She's basically saying, you were my age 15-20 years ago, and YOU ARE A CREEP. Meanwhile, girls her age aren't going to get any of that vibe at all, but middle-aged men (and probably some women) are going to be deeply butthurt about it, and possibly not even know that it's because she's hitting them in their mortality and in their middle-aged denial while saying "this isn't for you".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 09:11:49 PM
"Like a clown farting."
Not what the writer intended, but that line actually SELLS the album.
After seeing that, I HAVE to get it.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 09:34:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 09:04:52 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 08:57:13 PM
I don't really know, or care, how this fits in with the thread's theme, but this review is fantastic.
Regardless of its opinion, it's just a great piece of writing.
http://www.letoilemagazine.com/2013/10/02/we-will-rock-you-miley-cyrus-new-record-is-fucking-horrible/
:lulz:
That guy is awesome.
I laughed pretty hard right up until I got to the part where it's another incensed middle-aged man determined to deny that the little girl did it on purpose:
QuoteI am assuming the people who made this thing were professionals. Right? I briefly considered that maybe it was a joke, and that the joke was on Miley — that she assembled a team of producers who all got together at night over beers at Applebees and said "look, Miley wants to sound "urban" on this thing. We all know that's a terrible idea, right? So let's make the worst possible album for her, and just tell her it's "Dirty South" and maybe she's so clueless that she won't notice, and then we'll all meet back here in a month and laugh our asses off at the stupid blonde girl." And maybe that is what happened, but I think more likely it's a case of a bunch of producers — a bunch of them, there's like twenty of them credited — all trying to piece together a thing, and letting the twenty-year-old make too many creative decisions along the way, and then ten other people weighed in with ideas, and nobody ever told anybody no at any stage of the game, and probably they whooped it up with cocaine and "molly" at various points in the process, and what they ended up with was just a piece of shit mess, and because it sounded a little bit black, Miley was overjoyed and — just like in the joke scenario — failed to notice how terrible it was. And because the other guys got paid, and drove off in their expensive cars, even if they did notice it was fuck-awful, nobody ever told her. And then a bunch of executives figured "well, there's a couple of useable singles, and it'll sell a million copies before people notice it fucking sucks, so who cares — let's just crank this thing out and hope for the best and maybe she'll grind on someone else's penis on an awards show and we'll sell a few extra copies that day." In other words: this is "art" made by a committee on the most cynical level, trumpeted by a desperate industry who are also operating on the most cynical level at this point, and sung and performed by a very young, clueless, artless person who doesn't realize what she's doing on anything but the absolute basest level but has absolute free reign to indulge her every possible whim in an attempt to be "authentically urban."
Then I stopped laughing.
But the cover is fucking BRILLIANT. :lol:
And then some more desperate scrambling to discount Cyrus and deny that the problem is that actually, he doesn't get it because he's the butt of the joke:
QuoteThis disaster could have been avoided. Miley Cyrus has talent — I've heard her sing well before, there's evidence out there. She is, however, also two other things: a) twenty years old and b) not the fucking Beatles. Let's call a spade a spade here — she's a medium-talented pretty blonde girl, interchangeable with about four million other medium-talented pretty blonde girls.
Let's look at that cover again, shall we?
(http://www.letoilemagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/miley1n-4-web.jpg)
And his comment on it:
QuoteDoes this version of the album cover give off a grossly pedophaelic vibe to anybody else? Like maybe it's styled so she looks like a naked fourteen-year-old boy? GAHHH. Gross.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
The proof is in the
pudding "GAHHH. Gross."
I want to fistbump Miley SO BAD right now. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
For all I know, it might actually BE terrible. It wouldn't be the first time a young person's first solo album was terrible. But starting with his critique of the album cover, the whole review was basically him screeching because HE'S supposed to be the target audience for a young female pop star but her album ISN'T ABOUT HIM AT ALL, it isn't even PRETTY, it makes him feel CREEPY and besides it was made by a TALENTLESS LITTLE GIRL WHO ISN'T EVEN REALLY IN CHARGE. :lol:
I'll be curious to find out how her actual target audience, which doesn't seem to be teenage girls at all, but late teens/early 20's women, responds to it.
The lead in with the "I
like pop, I like Madonna, etc." kind of reminded me of "some of my best friends are..."
ETA: And yes. 80's cover, guy hair...but not Annie Lennox, oooooh, no... :lol:
Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 10:30:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 04, 2013, 09:11:49 PM
"Like a clown farting."
Not what the writer intended, but that line actually SELLS the album.
After seeing that, I HAVE to get it.
I know, I wasn't going to buy it but now I have to. :lol:
-
Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 10:38:06 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
For all I know, it might actually BE terrible. It wouldn't be the first time a young person's first solo album was terrible. But starting with his critique of the album cover, the whole review was basically him screeching because HE'S supposed to be the target audience for a young female pop star but her album ISN'T ABOUT HIM AT ALL, it isn't even PRETTY, it makes him feel CREEPY and besides it was made by a TALENTLESS LITTLE GIRL WHO ISN'T EVEN REALLY IN CHARGE. :lol:
I'll be curious to find out how her actual target audience, which doesn't seem to be teenage girls at all, but late teens/early 20's women, responds to it.
The lead in with the "I like pop, I like Madonna, etc." kind of reminded me of "some of my best friends are..."
ETA: And yes. 80's cover, guy hair...but not Annie Lennox, oooooh, no... :lol:
I KNOW! I'm just reeling in how perfect the 80's-ness of it is! Peach-to-purple fade! Mauve! Teal! Palm trees! NEON! Weird silhouette! Even THAT ONE FONT. With Miley in the middle, naked, boyish, way-too-young, just saying "You're old". :lol:
Quote from: Cain on October 04, 2013, 10:47:32 PM
Strangely enough, even before I read the comments about the cover, I did wonder about that look. It reminded me a fair bit of Justin Bieber, for some reason.
For good reason, actually:
(http://www.billboard.com/files/styles/promo_650/public/media/justin-bieber-the-key-perfume-650-430.jpg)
(http://www.hdwallpapers3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/justin-bieber-4.jpg)
That's one of his favorite angles to be photographed from.
Another interesting thing is that the reviewer felt the need to comment on that particular cover... which isn't even the official release cover, it's one of the four potential alternates for the deluxe version.
What? WHOA. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Mission fucking ACCOMPLISHED.
Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 10:59:14 PM
What? WHOA. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Mission fucking ACCOMPLISHED.
Yeah. He had to dig a little so he could be even MORE affronted that Miley isn't for him.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 04, 2013, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 10:54:36 PM
That's one of his favorite angles to be photographed from.
And since Justin has been going off the rails lately...his "good boy" image has been severely tarnished, one wonders if there is another message in that.
I wouldn't be surprised:
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/lostinshowbiz/2013/sep/26/miley-cyrus-justin-bieber-celebrity-friends
(http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201334/rs_560x415-130404141534-1024.Miley.JustinB.mh.040413.jpg)
The foam finger guy is OUTRAGED. OUTRAGED AND AFFRONTED. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
Quote from: stelz on October 05, 2013, 05:43:48 AM
The foam finger guy is OUTRAGED. OUTRAGED AND AFFRONTED. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
THE FOAM FINGER HAS FOREVER BEEN BESMIRCHED! D: D: D:
Spent the majority of an after party arguing the pro-Miley side with a fairly emphatic feminist.
She absolutely HATED the "you're denying Miley agency" angle played against her.
Thanks, PD. I couldn't have done it without you.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 04:47:35 PM
Spent the majority of an after party arguing the pro-Miley side with a fairly emphatic feminist.
She absolutely HATED the "you're denying Miley agency" angle played against her.
Thanks, PD. I couldn't have done it without you.
I love that angle. It's such a monkey wrench in the usual memetic works that go on when shit like this happens.
I, also, would not have considered that without this thread's discussion.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 09:58:50 PM
Industry-wise, he IS the target.
I'm trying to find any evidence of this at all. Can you share your sources? Everything I'm seeing says that under-25 is the biggest spending demographic for pop music.
It is, that is exactly who she's going after, and they'll eat it up, whether it is good or not. Pop music has worked that way for ages.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 05, 2013, 05:00:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 04, 2013, 09:58:50 PM
Industry-wise, he IS the target.
I'm trying to find any evidence of this at all. Can you share your sources? Everything I'm seeing says that under-25 is the biggest spending demographic for pop music.
I had something, earlier. Let me see if I can find it again.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 05:37:29 PM
It is, that is exactly who she's going after, and they'll eat it up, whether it is good or not. Pop music has worked that way for ages.
And her being exactly the same as all other pop acts explains perfectly why everybody is so freaked out and pissed off about her. Nothing to see here, folks. Right?
People were pissed off and freaked out when Madonna hit the scene. They were pissed off and freaked out with Britney Spears, Christine Aguilera, Katy Perry.
At least Madonna, Christine, and Katy have som passable talent.
In My Opinion, Miley is a big budget AKK.
After seeing the classy way you've ignored Coyote, RWHN, I'm sure your opinion will be given all the consideration it merits.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 06:34:54 PM
After seeing the classy way you've ignored Coyote, RWHN, I'm sure your opinion will be given all the consideration it merits.
I'm not real people. I'm basically just a TGGR-lite or Dok Howl jr.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 06:36:45 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 06:34:54 PM
After seeing the classy way you've ignored Coyote, RWHN, I'm sure your opinion will be given all the consideration it merits.
I'm not real people. I'm basically just a TGGR-lite or Dok Howl jr.
We're all just pixels on a screen, man.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 06:34:54 PM
After seeing the classy way you've ignored Coyote, RWHN, I'm sure your opinion will be given all the consideration it merits.
Ignored what exactly?
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
Funny thing is, the last time a pop artist made this much of a stir, it was Sinead O'Connor, ripping up the picture of the pope on SNL.
I have a feeling this is just STARTING to get good.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
My jaw is dropped. That was MAGNIFICENT.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
I'm really confused about whom she is calling out. Or what she is actually saying. This is like American Poetry class all over again.
I love love love that she invoked Yoko Ono, because yes. :lol:
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
I'm really confused about whom she is calling out. Or what she is actually saying. This is like American Poetry class all over again.
I think she just bitch-slapped EVERYBODY. Including us.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 05, 2013, 07:45:12 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
I'm really confused about whom she is calling out. Or what she is actually saying. This is like American Poetry class all over again.
I think she just bitch-slapped EVERYBODY. Including us.
That's kind of how I feel.
Like I got bitch slapped in a beautiful way, and I just too dumb to know exactly how and why.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 07:46:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 05, 2013, 07:45:12 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 07:43:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Also, Miley is on SNL tonight. Should be interesting.
I'm really confused about whom she is calling out. Or what she is actually saying. This is like American Poetry class all over again.
I think she just bitch-slapped EVERYBODY. Including us.
That's kind of how I feel.
Like I got bitch slapped in a beautiful way, and I just too dumb to know exactly how and why.
That's the story of my life.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
Yeah, that was 10 different kinds of awesome.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
I think I'm getting a nosebleed from the beauty of this.
That might be the wasabi peas, but I think it's the letter.
This is the usual effect Ann Magnuson has on people.
I've loved her for quite a long time.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
He isn't going to address it because I disagree with him on many things, I act like DOUR, I agree with Nigel, and I'm not a real person.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 05, 2013, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 05, 2013, 08:44:05 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 05, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
This is an amazing rant: Ann Magnuson (Bongwater, et al) writes an open letter to an open letter.
http://pleasekillme.com/ann-magnusons-open-letter-to-an-open-letter/
I think I'm getting a nosebleed from the beauty of this.
That might be the wasabi peas, but I think it's the letter.
I can't read it because the nannywall prevents me. :sad:
Category Unrated means it might at least get reviewed and changed to something more appropriate...
"Open Letter to an Open Letter,
Seriously? What the FUUUUUCK? You stare at me with your blank page staring back at me like some milky white ass flaps twerking for dollars on the agitated propaganda machine crying out for attention while masquerading your plea for help as a publicity stunt; a call to arms, to legs, beckoning to what is panting between those latex clad gams, those powerful pussy pants that can be sold for so many pieces of silver, gold and Bitcoins on the open market and defiling our father's house of prayer? Don't be fooled! It's a losing game! You think I'm going to fill up your empty void with self-righteous, self-promoting texting drivel, so much jaw-breaking jibber jabber, using this platform for a hectoring lecturing dickity dock to empower the pussy over the cock when all we're really looking for is more 'hits', more eyeballs rolling in the back of heads and onto websites to move more product? Give me a fuckin' break with your 'look at me I know the score, I've been around the block Good Woman of motherfuckin' Setzuan waiting all Godot-like for a royalty check that never shows because some industry spunk mogul spent it on a yacht in Anguilla' BULLSHIT! Because if I even hear one lame-ass vocoder note of that siren song, I'll fall for it and start trying to win at a losers game, getting my act together and taking it on the road, screwin' my head on right and no one is gonna tell me it ain't while running as fast as I can WHILE YOU continue to TAUNT with more whitespace to fill! This is a vortex THAT CAN NEVER BE FILLED; that oozing, gaping GOD SHAPED HOLE aching to be crammed full of cold hard plasmatic cash because it's not like the old daze when we could use paper and a simple yellow No. 2 pencil and begin and end a good bowel movement of a punk rock riot grrl rant with a couple of well crafted paragraphs. Nooooooo! Now it's all about fuckin' word count and bullshit font size and patriarchal borders and shadings and template-tipped bullets and mind-numbing page numbering! Those ever-continuing pages that require the never-ending numbers; numbers that stretch beyond the edges of the known universe, beyond human comprehension, waaaay past the event horizon to drive us star raving mad! And the hashtags! For the sweet love of Jesus, The HASHTAGS! #fuckyouall NOOOOO, these days we don't have time to sit at a simple wooden desk with our McGuffy Reader minding our P's and Q's, we have to PROSTITUTE OURSELVES on computers and iPhones and Humpty Dumpty Mumblety-peg Gadget Thingamajigs being thought up every day by Evil Game Changers in order to trick us into endless 'upgrades' and all the while we continue to be faced with one huge, theocratic mullah of a blank document that just goes on and on and on and on AND ON until the 12th of motherfuckin' NEVER! No matter what I say, no matter how much I type, no matter how fast I spew my vitriol, projectile-vomit, no matter how well I craft this well justified bile that NEEDS TO BE SAID I am still faced with having to do MORE. MORE! MORE! MORE!!!! All because of YOU, you Damnable Open Letter! You who will endlessly taunt me with more empty and infinite GODDAMN white space!!!! This is why NO WOMAN can win at this game! Face the TRUTH: We're being used. Sucked into the tar baby vacuum, used as pawns in the Entertainment Game, being jerked over by The Man in our vain attempt to WRITE OUR OWN SCRIPT. We think this is a way to TAKE BACK OUR POWER? EPIC FAIL! It's all USELESS USELESS USELESS! So much cannon fodder grist for the mill like the sands through the hourglass these are the lies of our lives! Face the facts drones: There is always more to give, more to say, more to feed the insatiable beast, the one that weaves a deceitful web with our Facebook threads, our Tweetie Pie chicken shit cuneiform, our high horse hieroglyphics, our open wound expressionistic Esperanto; these walking shadow boxing matches full of sound and fury signifying not a heck of a lot when you get right down to it cuz all we are is dust in the wind. If – as our mother goddess role model Yoko Ono astutely sang- Woman is Nigger of the World, then You – YOU insidious Open Letter, are the White Supremacist Albino Dictator of The Internet and I say FIE! FIE ON THEE AND YOUR DEMON SPAWN!
With immense respect,
Ann Magnuson"
-
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
He isn't going to address it because I disagree with him on many things, I act like DOUR, I agree with Nigel, and I'm not a real person.
There is nothing to address. What I was communicating was abundantly clear. You want to be offended. Nothing I say will change that.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
He isn't going to address it because I disagree with him on many things, I act like DOUR, I agree with Nigel, and I'm not a real person.
There is nothing to address. What I was communicating was abundantly clear. You want to be offended. Nothing I say will change that.
Abundantly clear that you are a piece of shit that thinks being annoyed by vapid children entertainment and then being reminded of it later on is the same as have PTSD.
I was hoping he'd just missed it in the shuffle. To be charitable to RWHN, it must be pretty overwhelming when every post you make is immediately followed by tons more which take an aggressive tone to you.
But yeah. The fact that someone like him supposedly works with children genuinely horrifies me. I'd say I didn't believe it, but he does remind me of some of the teachers I suffered through.
He just can't help that everyone else is so stupid, you guys.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 09:25:57 PM
I was hoping he'd just missed it in the shuffle. To be charitable to RWHN, it must be pretty overwhelming when every post you make is immediately followed by tons more which take an aggressive tone to you.
But yeah. The fact that someone like him supposedly works with children genuinely horrifies me. I'd say I didn't believe it, but he does remind me of some of the teachers I suffered through.
He just can't help that everyone else is so stupid, you guys.
Just seeing the name "Miley Cyrus" sets his heart racing, his palms sweating, his stomach churning while he starts looks around for exits and checking for his remote, while running through immediate action to get his remote working so he can quickly change the channel. If he were to so much as hear her voice, he starts feeling terrified and increasingly watchful and observant for hidden hordes of screaming preteen girls. If he were to so much as catch a glimpse of her his bowels and bladded begin to void uncontrollably as he dry heaves, pounding his fists into the walls.
We really shouldn't make fun of him. He is a delicate person, and we have no idea what might trigger his PTSD.
Don't be so damned literal.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:35:36 PM
Don't be so damned literal.
Oh am I bugging you by pointing out the dickery you have in using a serious disorder as a weak punchline in your joke about how much you hate Hannah Montana?
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 09:40:30 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:35:36 PM
Don't be so damned literal.
Oh am I bugging you by pointing out the dickery you have in using a serious disorder as a weak punchline in your joke about how much you hate Hannah Montana?
Tell that to everyone who indiscriminately throws around "retard" on this board. Then we can talk.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:17:54 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 07:36:09 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on September 10, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
I was going to butQuote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 10, 2013, 11:34:43 PM
Jesus, that is triggering some ptsd.
Gonna lay down now.
I know this was a bit ago, but. What the fucking hell is fucking wrong with you that you think it is ok to make light of ptsd while making it fucking abundantly clear you are some fucking saint who had to suffer through Hannah Montana and just much to fucking smart and clever and aware and cultured that you have to mock Miley Cyrus for producing anything that you for some fucking reason find offensive.
Also, fuck you fuck you fuck you.
Using ptsd as some fucking part of some really shitty joke or whatever the fuck you were trying to do is really fucking shitty. Not that anyone really expects better of you at this moment in fucking time. Comparing some mild annoyance to having ptsd is exactly like those fucking assholes that think it's cool or zany or enlightening to pretend to have some mental illness.
He isn't going to address it because I disagree with him on many things, I act like DOUR, I agree with Nigel, and I'm not a real person.
There is nothing to address. What I was communicating was abundantly clear. You want to be offended. Nothing I say will change that.
:lulz: Funny, I've heard that exact argument applied to excusing the casual misuse of words like "nigger", "fag", "cunt", "retard", etc.
That last one is used here all the time and you guys don't get upset, you're offended because you want to be offended.
I agree that casually tossing out the PTSD thing like it's some kind of joke was a dick move, considering that some people here have mentioned that they have actual PTSD multiple times. It's dickish and it's also really, really classless. I do happen to feel the same way about "retard", even though that one's part of my cultural backdrop and really hard to eliminate from my casual vocabulary. It's worth the effort to not sound like I grew up without pants or dental care, though.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:53:42 PM
That last one is used here all the time and you guys don't get upset, you're offended because you want to be offended.
Yeah, we aren't real people, and we haven't had multi-page arguments about "retard" or "assburgers" or privilege or racism, ever. :roll:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:44:05 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 09:40:30 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:35:36 PM
Don't be so damned literal.
Oh am I bugging you by pointing out the dickery you have in using a serious disorder as a weak punchline in your joke about how much you hate Hannah Montana?
Tell that to everyone who indiscriminately throws around "retard" on this board. Then we can talk.
retard
Definitions
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition
transitive v.
To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede. intransitive v.
To be delayed. n.
A slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay. n. Music A slackening of tempo.
n. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a mentally retarded person.
n. Offensive Slang A person considered to be foolish or socially inept.
from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License
n
. Retardation; delay.
n. A person with mental retardation.
n.
A stupid person, or one who is slow to learn. v.
To keep delaying; to continue to hinder; to prevent from progress; to render more slow in progress; to impede; to hinder v.
To put off; to postpone. v. To be slow or dilatory to perform (something).
v. To decelerate; to slow down.
v. To stay back.
from the GNU version of the Collaborative International Dictionary of English
transitive v.
To keep delaying; to continue to hinder; to prevent from progress; to render more slow in progress; to impede; to hinder; ; -- opposed to accelerate. transitive v.
To put off; to postpone intransitive v.
To stay back. n. Retardation; delay.
n. A mentally retarded person.
n.
a person who is stupid or inept, especially in social situations.from The Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia
To make slow or slower; obstruct in motion or progress; delay; impede; clog; hinder. To defer; postpone; put off.
Synonyms To detain, delay.
To be delayed or later than usual.
n. Retardation.
from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.
v.
lose velocity; move more slowly n.
a person of subnormal intelligence v.
cause to move more slowly or operate at a slower rate v. be delayed
v. slow the growth or development of
Beyond the medical definition that is applied to certain people below a certain IQ, retard has several other related definitions, but you would know that if you actually did something other than "troll" on PD.
Let us contrast the many definitions of retard with PTSD.
QuotePost-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a term for certain psychological consequences of exposure to, or confrontation with, stressful experiences that the person experiences as highly traumatic. [1] The experience must involve actual or threatened death, serious physical injury, or a threat to physical and/or psychological integrity. It is occasionally called post-traumatic stress reaction to emphasize that it is a routine result of traumatic experience rather than a manifestation of a pre-existing psychological weakness on the part of the patient.
It is possible for individuals to experience traumatic stress without manifesting Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, as indicated in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
Symptoms of PTSD can include the following: nightmares, flashbacks, emotional detachment or numbing of feelings (emotional self-mortification or dissociation), insomnia, avoidance of reminders and extreme distress when exposed to the reminders ("triggers"), irritability, hypervigilance, memory loss, and excessive startle response, clinical depression and anxiety, loss of appetite.
So while retard has several legitimate uses, PTSD has a rather narrow and specific meaning, but then again you knew that. And since you are pretty much a piece of shit that likes to get in it with DOUR and Nigel, I can only conclude that you were intending to piss of DOUR with your shitty ass offhanded weak as shitty coffee poor excuse for a joke. I can only conclude this because there are a very small handful of former service members on PD who may or may not be suffering from service related mental and emotional issues, and that DOUR is a former service member who has seen some shit. You knew better than make your poor shitty allusion to some other mental or emotional disorder because there are others here on PD that have at various times suffered, or are subject.
In short you must have used PTSD because only big tough men that no one really likes here would be the only ones that could potentially be upset by this terrible comparison.
This is why you are piece of shit RWHN. This is why people don't like you. If you can't pick on the women here without being mocked your only recourse is to pick on someone who obviously can handle it and would dearly love to just jump at the chance to get righteously angry. Too bad you must have forgot that other people might be deeply offended and hurt by your offhanded use of a serious issue that personally affects them.
If I didn't already have disdain for you by now, this would have sealed my utter distaste for the odious filth that you are by your utter refusal to admit that your joke was in terrible terrible taste.
Just to reiterate.
Get fucked you odious shitty excuse for a human.
There's no way Coyote could be triggered by the casual misuse of "PTSD", he's just pixels on a screen. Everyone knows pixels don't have feelings!
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 05, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:53:42 PM
That last one is used here all the time and you guys don't get upset, you're offended because you want to be offended.
Yeah, we aren't real people, and we haven't had multi-page arguments about "retard" or "assburgers" or privilege or racism, ever. :roll:
Didn't see any multi-page thread pop up last time it was used, like just in the past couple of days.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 10:01:57 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 05, 2013, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 09:53:42 PM
That last one is used here all the time and you guys don't get upset, you're offended because you want to be offended.
Yeah, we aren't real people, and we haven't had multi-page arguments about "retard" or "assburgers" or privilege or racism, ever. :roll:
Didn't see any multi-page thread pop up last time it was used, like just in the past couple of days.
Nobody felt like tackling it. It isn't anyone's personal trigger. No one who's personal trigger it is saw it. There are plenty of reasons it may have slid by, but they're all irrelevant. Why are you making excuses? "Yeah, but you didn't get mad when this other thing happened" isn't a good one.
Oh, I know why it slid by, and you do too.
Personally, when I see it, I tend to just cringe and decide it isn't worth getting into it over, much as I did when I saw your casual bandying about of PTSD as a joke. It's not a joke, as I can attest. It's horrible and I hope neither you nor anyone you love actually has to live with it.
Apparently it got to Coyote a little more than it did me.
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 05, 2013, 10:08:40 PM
Oh, I know why it slid by, and you do too.
Yes, RWHN, everyone is out to get you just because you're different. :roll:
You're different, and special, and smarter than everyone else, and that's why nobody likes you.
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
I much prefer her under her own direction. Yeah, it's ugly, it's uncomfortable, and I don't much like the music (other than Wrecking Ball, which I actually like) but it reflects the vision of a smart, self-directed young woman with ideas and a future that belongs to her, alone. I'm old. I don't belong in her future; I don't have to like it, I'm not invited to the party. That's OK.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
Can't Be Tamed started out like it could have done something and then it didn't. Just autotune in a very very boring way.
Both of them seem to lack soul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrUvu1mlWco
This is like watching a sloooowed down LMFAO video.
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 01:47:54 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
Can't Be Tamed started out like it could have done something and then it didn't. Just autotune in a very very boring way.
Both of them seem to lack soul.
They're pretty sterile.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 02:10:04 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 01:47:54 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
Can't Be Tamed started out like it could have done something and then it didn't. Just autotune in a very very boring way.
Both of them seem to lack soul.
They're pretty sterile.
Mechanical, rote, souless.
but on the bright side she's giving me more inspiration for a terrible anime inspired table top game.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
Did... did they try to make her a little bit more... brown?
I think they tried to make her brown.
That's so weird. I think I know why they would do that, but it's still really weird.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2013, 02:17:55 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
Did... did they try to make her a little bit more... brown?
I think they tried to make her brown.
That's so weird. I think I know why they would do that, but it's still really weird.
No, she's a natural brunette, she bleaches it for the blonde.
ok yeah I should have figured she was bleached blonde, and the whole color scheme of that first video is darker, especially compared to "Wrecking Ball" (the only video of her's I've seen other than the VMA)
maybe I'm looking at it backwards, and she made herself blonde (and a tad boyish) as part of her ongoing trolling efforts
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 06, 2013, 02:33:50 AM
ok yeah I should have figured she was bleached blonde, and the whole color scheme of that first video is darker, especially compared to "Wrecking Ball" (the only video of her's I've seen other than the VMA)
maybe I'm looking at it backwards, and she made herself blonde (and a tad boyish) as part of her ongoing trolling efforts
I think she's been all over the map hair-color-wise, even in the Hannah Montana days. Google Image search seems to say so, at least.
I just got around to reading that third open letter from O'Connor and maaaan it's resonant with screechy batshittery and butthurt. https://www.facebook.com/sineadoconnor/posts/601024469936545
It's actually pretty cringetastic.
Wooooooooow! :lulz: :horrormirth:
http://christophertitus.com/2013/03/the-word-retard/
SPECIAL UNIT THE MOVIE! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_KiSeTiX_k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_KiSeTiX_k)
Sweet Jesus on a saltine. Her head is full of stupid. "Anti-female way" what the fuck? Wait...she means *ahem* "Act like a proper young lady, and sit up straight."
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 09:25:57 PM
I was hoping he'd just missed it in the shuffle. To be charitable to RWHN, it must be pretty overwhelming when every post you make is immediately followed by tons more which take an aggressive tone to you.
But yeah. The fact that someone like him supposedly works with children genuinely horrifies me. I'd say I didn't believe it, but he does remind me of some of the teachers I suffered through.
He just can't help that everyone else is so stupid, you guys.
Just seeing the name "Miley Cyrus" sets his heart racing, his palms sweating, his stomach churning while he starts looks around for exits and checking for his remote, while running through immediate action to get his remote working so he can quickly change the channel. If he were to so much as hear her voice, he starts feeling terrified and increasingly watchful and observant for hidden hordes of screaming preteen girls. If he were to so much as catch a glimpse of her his bowels and bladded begin to void uncontrollably as he dry heaves, pounding his fists into the walls.
Sometimes he has DREAMS. Unspeakable DREAMS about MILEY CYRUS that make him SCREAM.
Quote from: stelz on October 06, 2013, 06:22:28 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 09:25:57 PM
I was hoping he'd just missed it in the shuffle. To be charitable to RWHN, it must be pretty overwhelming when every post you make is immediately followed by tons more which take an aggressive tone to you.
But yeah. The fact that someone like him supposedly works with children genuinely horrifies me. I'd say I didn't believe it, but he does remind me of some of the teachers I suffered through.
He just can't help that everyone else is so stupid, you guys.
Just seeing the name "Miley Cyrus" sets his heart racing, his palms sweating, his stomach churning while he starts looks around for exits and checking for his remote, while running through immediate action to get his remote working so he can quickly change the channel. If he were to so much as hear her voice, he starts feeling terrified and increasingly watchful and observant for hidden hordes of screaming preteen girls. If he were to so much as catch a glimpse of her his bowels and bladded begin to void uncontrollably as he dry heaves, pounding his fists into the walls.
Sometimes he has DREAMS. Unspeakable DREAMS about MILEY CYRUS that make him SCREAM.
That's why he drinks so much coffee. It's to calm the demons of the horrors that is the Disney Channel. Because we all know kind of drug fiend he is.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
I much prefer her under her own direction. Yeah, it's ugly, it's uncomfortable, and I don't much like the music (other than Wrecking Ball, which I actually like) but it reflects the vision of a smart, self-directed young woman with ideas and a future that belongs to her, alone. I'm old. I don't belong in her future; I don't have to like it, I'm not invited to the party. That's OK.
Those two videos reminded me why I never liked her
at all until now. The first one is a Britney video, essentially. With Raquel Welch hair ca. 1967 or so, but still Britney. The other one is just...WHOSE FUCKING IDEA WAS THAT? :x :x :x
It's not my future, either. But it's WEIRD. Like if Zappa had been doing a Glen Campbell thing, and then one day he just said "FUCK ALLA YAS" and started being himself. ON THE FUCKING VMA's.
I don't have to be at the party to enjoy THAT. :lulz:
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 06:51:37 AM
Quote from: stelz on October 06, 2013, 06:22:28 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 05, 2013, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: Demolition Squid on October 05, 2013, 09:25:57 PM
I was hoping he'd just missed it in the shuffle. To be charitable to RWHN, it must be pretty overwhelming when every post you make is immediately followed by tons more which take an aggressive tone to you.
But yeah. The fact that someone like him supposedly works with children genuinely horrifies me. I'd say I didn't believe it, but he does remind me of some of the teachers I suffered through.
He just can't help that everyone else is so stupid, you guys.
Just seeing the name "Miley Cyrus" sets his heart racing, his palms sweating, his stomach churning while he starts looks around for exits and checking for his remote, while running through immediate action to get his remote working so he can quickly change the channel. If he were to so much as hear her voice, he starts feeling terrified and increasingly watchful and observant for hidden hordes of screaming preteen girls. If he were to so much as catch a glimpse of her his bowels and bladded begin to void uncontrollably as he dry heaves, pounding his fists into the walls.
Sometimes he has DREAMS. Unspeakable DREAMS about MILEY CYRUS that make him SCREAM.
That's why he drinks so much coffee. It's to calm the demons of the horrors that is the Disney Channel. Because we all know kind of drug fiend he is.
One, two, Miley's coming for you,
Three, four, better lock your door,
Five, six, grab your crucifix,
Seven, eight, gonna stay up late,
Nine, ten, never sleep again.
I'm having tiny strokes, yo.
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/arts/music/get-back-and-just-let-miley-cyrus-grow-up.html?_r=1&
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
Quote from: Waffleman on October 06, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/arts/music/get-back-and-just-let-miley-cyrus-grow-up.html?_r=1&
I agree with that piece.
Quote from: :regret: on October 06, 2013, 05:58:43 PM
Quote from: Waffleman on October 06, 2013, 05:33:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/arts/music/get-back-and-just-let-miley-cyrus-grow-up.html?_r=1&
I agree with that piece.
Absolutely, and I'm glad that there are those in mainstream media who have the acuity to pick up on these points. Some choice quotes:
Quote"This is all thought out in my mind," she said. "It's not a transition. I'm the same human, I've got the same heart I did five years ago."
While her performance might have scanned to many as a hot mess, Ms. Cyrus said that it was "a strategic hot mess."
It's a far more lucid statement of purpose than Ms. Spears could have given in her prime. Ms. Cyrus saw the awards show as a stage on which she could make a loud splash, and splash she did. To those who dismissed her performance as lame salaciousness, she shrugs her shoulders. The show, she said, was "obviously funny" — which it was. "If I really wanted to come out and do like a raunchy sex show, I wouldn't have been dressed as a damn bear."
QuoteOf course, Ms. Spears doesn't fully understand Ms. Cyrus, who's closer in spirit to Madonna, of all people — the stadium-size provocations, the image malleability, the willingness to cause a commotion to make a point (or for the commotion to be the point). But Madonna had no Madonna of her own to react against. Ms. Cyrus is channeling, chewing up and digesting several generations of transgressive pop divas. Her spectacle isn't about the size of the shock, but the unexpected twists and turns on the way. It's sloppy and invigorating and, at its best, interesting. She's experimenting with the shape of pop stardom — let her live.
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
I don't know if anyone watched Cyrus on Saturday Night Live, but she was hilarious. The tiny strokes line broke me.
And Roger, you might like her voice better presented this way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
You know, I tried to do a sketch of Eris back when I was in college. It looks an awful lot like what Miley's done with her image lately.
:eek:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
I find it ironic that a Discordian is crapping all over this sort of thing to appear like he's not media-driven.
:lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:35:31 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
I find it ironic that a Discordian is crapping all over this sort of thing to appear like he's not media-driven.
:lulz:
:lulz:
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
Why?
I have a shrine to Greta Garbo Hidden in my cupboard. I flagellate before it daily.
Quote from: Faust on October 07, 2013, 08:43:12 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
Why?
I have a shrine to Greta Garbo Hidden in my cupboard. I flagellate before it daily.
You get away from her, you home-wrecker! I love her, and she loves me.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Faust on October 07, 2013, 08:43:12 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
Why?
I have a shrine to Greta Garbo Hidden in my cupboard. I flagellate before it daily.
You get away from her, you home-wrecker! I love her, and she loves me.
Ok fine but you stay the hell away from Marlene Dietrich.
Quote from: Faust on October 07, 2013, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Faust on October 07, 2013, 08:43:12 AM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on October 06, 2013, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on October 06, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
I'm calling it now, Miley goes full-Lohan in the next 5 years.
Anyone else find that this above this
QuoteCynicism is a blank check for failure.
to be ironic?
I find it ironic that a pack of Discordians are fawning over a pop princess.
Why?
I have a shrine to Greta Garbo Hidden in my cupboard. I flagellate before it daily.
You get away from her, you home-wrecker! I love her, and she loves me.
Ok fine but you stay the hell away from Marlene Dietrich.
Deal.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 11:02:19 PM
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
Which will, of course, be followed up by squawks of "Yeah, well, I didn't think it was funny
at all."
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 11:02:19 PM
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
Which will, of course, be followed up by squawks of "Yeah, well, I didn't think it was funny at all."
Which, of course, only makes it funnier.
She is, first and foremost, outrage porn for a nation that is desperate to be offended, just so they can remember what outrage
feels like. A never-ending war in Afghanistan? Complicated. A woman with an improperly calibrated sense of humor? BURN IT WIFF FIRE!
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 11:02:19 PM
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
Which will, of course, be followed up by squawks of "Yeah, well, I didn't think it was funny at all."
:lulz: Exactly like the parking-meter story.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 11:02:19 PM
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
Which will, of course, be followed up by squawks of "Yeah, well, I didn't think it was funny at all."
:lulz: Exactly like the parking-meter story.
:?
Quote from: stelz on October 06, 2013, 07:00:39 AM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 01:42:43 AM
For the record, this is what Cyrus' label tried to turn her into when they decided it was time for her to transition to sexpot pop star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSG6z_13-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySsbkLVuYOs
I much prefer her under her own direction. Yeah, it's ugly, it's uncomfortable, and I don't much like the music (other than Wrecking Ball, which I actually like) but it reflects the vision of a smart, self-directed young woman with ideas and a future that belongs to her, alone. I'm old. I don't belong in her future; I don't have to like it, I'm not invited to the party. That's OK.
Those two videos reminded me why I never liked her at all until now. The first one is a Britney video, essentially. With Raquel Welch hair ca. 1967 or so, but still Britney. The other one is just...WHOSE FUCKING IDEA WAS THAT? :x :x :x
It's not my future, either. But it's WEIRD. Like if Zappa had been doing a Glen Campbell thing, and then one day he just said "FUCK ALLA YAS" and started being himself. ON THE FUCKING VMA's.
I don't have to be at the party to enjoy THAT. :lulz:
George Carlin.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 10:51:52 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 07, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on October 07, 2013, 09:09:30 PM
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 06, 2013, 11:02:19 PM
The documentary is also a good strategic move; many people are defending their insistence that she really didn't know exactly what she was doing, now that she's come right out and said that it was meant to be funny, by squawking that she is only claiming intent to be funny after the fact. The documentary follows her in the two weeks leading up to, and backstage at, the VMAs, which is going to make it awfully hard to continue with that "after-the-fact" bit. :lol:
Which will, of course, be followed up by squawks of "Yeah, well, I didn't think it was funny at all."
:lulz: Exactly like the parking-meter story.
:?
This: http://www.newbedfordguide.com/mayor-holds-emergency-meeting-to-chastise-parking-attendants/2013/08/28
Read the comments. Tons of people taking it seriously, followed by being told "um, it was satire", followed by "WELL IT ISN'T FUNNY!" :lol:
Zach Spier said, of something similar but unrelated,
Quoteit is because they're worried that they aren't getting something about the argument
which causes them an intellectual and social panic that they feel they must respond to
...which seems to pretty well sum up why people can't seem to stop squawking about how it's unimportant and the same as everything all the other pop stars do and there's nothing to see here and it wasn't funny anyway.
If it was ACTUALLY unimportant and uninteresting and inspired in them no discomfort and no dissonance, as they have been loudly insisting for over a month, they would ignore it completely rather than entering the dialogue, like non-sports-fans simply avoid the multitudes of discussion and media about things like playoffs and what teams are good or whatever sports fans talk about. The fact that they are so participatory in the dialogue utterly belies their words.
Yep.
Methinks the public doth protest too much. :lol:
Finally found my notes on the video.
I still maintain this is a horror movie video, especially with the rapid cut up shots and staring which is common in horror movie cinematography.
We are immediately confronted by a crying woman, there is no introduction or other explanation as to why she is crying. Unwavering, uncomfortable eye contact, viewer is directly involved in the shot. What did we do to make her cry?
Here and throughout the video there is harsh unpleasant lighting.
Fast cuts to shots of hammer, and boots, facing wall, eye contact still unwavering.
Dragging hammer along wall, unpleasant grating association. Ugly concrete walls. Is this a snuff movie?
First shot of hammer and mouth. Obvious phallic imagery but less obvious is the implication of violence: The metal is directly touching her teeth. This is an important image because it is immediately followed by a scene of wrecking ball smashing a wall. The viewer has just made made an association of teeth and hammer the violent imagery becomes more overt as the video goes on.
Eye contact again, with shots of concrete smashing. This time with dour expression and dead eyes.
Cut to weird phallic wrecking ball, abrupt shot cuts, jarring, not sexy, phallic shot again.
Licking hammer now.
Abrupt cut to naked sexually writhing which ends as soon as we are seen, direct eye contact again, we are being addressed, we're interrupting not participating in sex, pleasure expression immediately ends, we're not welcome.
Cut to hammer licking, and hammer in suggestion of positions, when looking sexually pleasured does not look viewer in the eyes.
Creepy, Rapey lyrics
"I came in like a wrecking ball
I never hit so hard in love
All I wanted was to break your walls
All you ever did was wreck me
Yeah, you, you wreck me"
"I just wanted you to let me in
And instead of using force
I guess I should've let you win"
"You wreck me". Well at least we know what we've done wrong now.
Rapid shot cuts, crying woman to woman presenting the crack of her ass at us back to crying woman. Yeah... that's really... alluring... :(
Final horrible shaky first person cam following wrecking ball.
At best this is a song about emotional violence a messy breakup song, but implication seems to be it's a song about physical violence with a sexual undercurrent.
The horror movie cinematography is quite clever even if it turns out to be just a song about emotionally damaging each other, but I suspect it's darker then that.
I like your analysis, I think it's pretty spot-on.
I was also taken with the way she's writhing in underwear on chunks of broken cinder blocks... those things are abrasive as fuck and it was hard not to cringe at the imagery. As far as I can tell the nudity and displays of sexuality are not intended to titillate, but to stimulate discomfort.
I love you guys.
Not the least of which, this is now my favorite subject to annoy my hipster friends who dismiss her work. I can still get at least one of them to froth at the mouth by asking them why they think she doesn't have agency.
Faust, I kind of want to formalize that and post it all over the internet.
Go for it.
Nigel and I had talked on the phone about this. Her performace at the VMAs and in Wrecking Ball was more or less designed to trigger rape panic in males.
Our old crush DearCokeTalk isn't quite as enamored
Quote from: http://dearcoquette.com/post/203113805/on-mouseketeers
what do you think of miley cyrus?
I resent the implication that I should have an allotment of brain cells dedicated to Miley Cyrus.
I don't give a waxed cunt-hair about her, and neither should you.
Quote from: http://dearcoquette.com/post/54067556725/on-blurred-lines
Just saw your response to the Miley video - how about Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines" video? Opinion?
I dunno. Let's see his dick.
Quote from: http://dearcoquette.com/post/54064304303/on-mileys-videoPlease say something about that new Miley Cyrus video.
What? Seriously, why do I have to have an opinion about this? Is Miley Cyrus doing anything we haven't already seen a half dozen times from Taylor Swift or Kesha? Am I supposed to be impressed that these bitches like to have slumber parties with their makeup artists?
Am I supposed to think it's somehow scandalous for them to get in glitter-filled pillow fights with American Apparel models by the pool at some gay dude's weekend house in Palm Springs? Please. That shit is ridiculous.
People are acting as if Miley spent the entire video sucking off the Jonas Brothers when all she really did was twerk a little and refuse to spit out her gum while doing what we can all agree was just a half-assed Rihanna impression. Honestly, I've seen episodes of Hannah Montana that were more controversial.
Whatever. As far as I'm concerned, the bar was set last year by M.I.A with her video for Bad Girls, and there's not a pop princess alive who's got the vision or the talent to come up with new shit that cool.
another related post, which talks about the "cultural appropriation" angle in the dialog: http://dearcoquette.com/post/61897891157/on-mileys-hair
QuoteCan you explain why cultural appropriation is so wrong? I want to style my hair like Miley Cyrus' but a couple of my friends told me she appropriated that style from hip hop culture. I know she did, but butches did it first. Pink did it first. I don't really get it.
Actually, the official chief mistress of Louis XV did it first. Her name was Jeanne Antoinette Poisson, Marquise de Pompadour. Not that any relevant history matters, because your sphere of influence is just a candy-coated pop culture bubble that extends one degree of separation beyond Miley Fucking Cyrus.
The good news is that there's nothing culturally appropriative about Miley's current haircut. The bad news is that for you to understand why, it would require that you have a sense of culture in the first place.
Just tell your stylist you want a platinum quiff, and try not to fall asleep while chewing gum.
While we're listening to our dear Coquette, here are some other words about this whole phenomenon
Quote from: http://dearcoquette.com/post/3593576356/on-classy-and-trashy
People constantly quote you for your definition of cheating (http://www.dearcoketalk.com/post/440550660/on-cheating), but what are your definitions for classy and trashy? You seem classy, but you've had life experiences that some of the more narrow minded populace would consider quite the opposite. How do you define those things?
Classy and trashy are objective manifestations of opposing states of mind that exist across a subjective spectrum of aesthetic sophistication.
These objective manifestations aren't classy or trashy within themselves. They require contextualization within an aesthetic framework.
For instance, Britney Spears sporting fishnets and a top hat is inevitably trashy, whereas Madonna rocking out the exact same outfit is classy as fuck.
Now, is this due to either woman's money, talent, or beauty? No, not at all. You're missing the point if you think like that. Those things have no direct correlation to aesthetic sophistication, and while money, talent, and beauty may make it easier to develop and express aesthetic sophistication, they also make it easier to express a blatant lack of it.
This isn't just about fashion, by the way. The same holds true across the entire range of aesthetic endeavors — design, music, architecture, the visual and performing arts, even culinary aesthetics.
Come on, it doesn't take much to know that Anthony Bourdain is all class and Rachael Ray is nothing but trash.
I like this note about how "Those things have no direct correlation to aesthetic sophistication" -- it is precisely what Jean Baudrillard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard) writes about, how our current hyperreality is composed of symbols, and those symbols have lost touch with their referents.
its' a total tangent, but here's Coquette's comments (http://dearcoquette.com/post/63006486900/on-work-bitch) on a recent britney video
and I'll leave you with this image:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLDYtOG.jpg)
mmmmm, makeup!
My GOODNESS, Emily Ms. Coke sure is vehement about how much she doesn't care about or think about Miley Cyrus! :lol:
What's up with the nearly-subliminal clown smile on Ms. Cyrus in that pic? She's up to something.
ETA just realized I think I conflated Coquette with someone I used to work with. :lulz:
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 04, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
My GOODNESS, Emily Coke sure is vehement about how much she doesn't care about or think about Miley Cyrus!
She has CULTURALLY RELEVANT things to talk about, as you would know if you weren't a complete
philistine.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 04, 2013, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 04, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
My GOODNESS, Emily Coke sure is vehement about how much she doesn't care about or think about Miley Cyrus!
She has CULTURALLY RELEVANT things to talk about, as you would know if you weren't a complete philistine.
:lol: Clearly.
Shit I'm gonna be late. See you after class!
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 04, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
What's up with the nearly-subliminal clown smile on Ms. Cyrus in that pic? She's up to something.
it comes from this
(http://i1.cdnds.net/13/33/618x602/miley-cyrus-tongue-2.jpg)
Quote from: Cramulus on November 04, 2013, 07:09:19 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 04, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
What's up with the nearly-subliminal clown smile on Ms. Cyrus in that pic? She's up to something.
it comes from this
(http://i1.cdnds.net/13/33/618x602/miley-cyrus-tongue-2.jpg)
Well, there goes her diet. :lulz:
Quote from: Cramulus on November 04, 2013, 07:09:19 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 04, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
What's up with the nearly-subliminal clown smile on Ms. Cyrus in that pic? She's up to something.
it comes from this
(http://i1.cdnds.net/13/33/618x602/miley-cyrus-tongue-2.jpg)
Kali, is that you?
Coke Talk / Coquette also said this, which I thought was relevant.
http://dearcoquette.com/post/63109967420/on-fun-sized-bullshit
QuoteSinead vs. Miley. Care to weigh in?
Sinead's open letter was condescending and misguided, but her heart was in the right place. She's wrong about Miley being exploited, though. Miley is the one doing the exploiting.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 05, 2013, 03:17:56 PM
Coke Talk / Coquette also said this, which I thought was relevant.
http://dearcoquette.com/post/63109967420/on-fun-sized-bullshit
QuoteSinead vs. Miley. Care to weigh in?
Sinead's open letter was condescending and misguided, but her heart was in the right place. She's wrong about Miley being exploited, though. Miley is the one doing the exploiting.
I disagree with Sinead's heart being in the right place, unless sanctimonious and condescending is the right place. I do agree with the last sentence.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 05, 2013, 04:25:16 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 05, 2013, 03:17:56 PM
Coke Talk / Coquette also said this, which I thought was relevant.
http://dearcoquette.com/post/63109967420/on-fun-sized-bullshit
QuoteSinead vs. Miley. Care to weigh in?
Sinead's open letter was condescending and misguided, but her heart was in the right place. She's wrong about Miley being exploited, though. Miley is the one doing the exploiting.
I disagree with Sinead's heart being in the right place, unless sanctimonious and condescending is the right place. I do agree with the last sentence.
I think Sinead thought her heart was in the right place because she's too far gone to know better. But yeah.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 04, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Nigel and I had talked on the phone about this. Her performace at the VMAs and in Wrecking Ball was more or less designed to trigger rape panic in males.
I'll take a #6 with a supersized order of RAPE* please. (if it's coming from Miley)
*Small to medium sized strap-ons only. Nothing bigger than a cheddarwurst.
Quote from: Delcon on November 06, 2013, 04:18:29 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 04, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
Nigel and I had talked on the phone about this. Her performace at the VMAs and in Wrecking Ball was more or less designed to trigger rape panic in males.
I'll take a #6 with a supersized order of RAPE* please. (if it's coming from Miley)
*Small to medium sized strap-ons only. Nothing bigger than a cheddarwurst.
:lol:
On the subject of "rape" the first time I heard this on the radio, I thought that was what she was singing "you ra-a-aped me"
I wonder if the similarity in phonetics (especially when blaring out a shitty van radio) is entirely accidental?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 06, 2013, 09:48:27 AM
On the subject of "rape" the first time I heard this on the radio, I thought that was what she was singing "you ra-a-aped me"
I wonder if the similarity in phonetics (especially when blaring out a shitty van radio) is entirely accidental?
That's what I heard too.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on November 06, 2013, 09:48:27 AM
On the subject of "rape" the first time I heard this on the radio, I thought that was what she was singing "you ra-a-aped me"
I wonder if the similarity in phonetics (especially when blaring out a shitty van radio) is entirely accidental?
Huh. Good question. "Break" and "rape" are slightly better rhyming pairs than "break" and "wreck", but the only way to know would be for someone to ask her.
Much hate and vitriol in the comments http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/miley-cyrus-flashes-twitter-to-free-the-nipple-20131216?utm_source=dailynewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
Looks like she's going to be on the cover, though. :lulz: :trollface:
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4246/sa4c.jpg)
:lulz: That's awesome.
!!!!!NSFW!!!!!!!
AHAHAHAHA. http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/db54a6be48/open-letter-to-miley-cyrus-from-arizona-iced-tea?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_107776
QuoteThanks to you, our cans are worth more than 99 cents. It used to be you just got a refreshing drink when you purchased a can of AriZona Iced Tea. Now, you also get a fond memory of that time Miley Cyrus posed in a red thong-leotard thing where you could almost see her vagina lips, or whatever. Don't be under any illusions.. ALL our cans of iced tea will still be sold at the affordable and clearly printed price of 99 cents.. but it's cool that drinking one might make some dudes want to masturbate for confusing and hard to pin down reasons.
(http://a.fod4.com/images/user_photos/1358670/27a5acb329909a4aa4e7a5a38772f263_width_640x.png)
Miley's like the evil puppetmaster of creepers. :lulz:
Oh my god. Even I'm aroused and frightened by... whatever the fuck she's doing.
I'm like OH GOD THAT'S NOT SEXY THAT'S NOT SEXY NOOOOOOOOOOOO
My rectum just crept into my lower GI tract.
Not on account of the can. On account of the look on her face.
BILL THE CAT.
That's what I'm seeing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 04:22:02 AM
BILL THE CAT.
That's what I'm seeing.
AHAHAHA, that's what my roommate's husband said. And then ran away crying to hide in the bathroom until I made the scary picture go away.
Twenty minutes later, he wanted to go to the gas station for some iced tea.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
BILL THE CAT IN A THONG. ONLY HE DOESN'T HAVE A GUT, HE'S KINDA HOT BUT HE'S...BILL THE CAT. WITH A BIG CAN THAT HE...DOES STUFF WITH.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 22, 2013, 05:52:25 AM
BILL THE CAT IN A THONG. ONLY HE DOESN'T HAVE A GUT, HE'S KINDA HOT BUT HE'S...BILL THE CAT. WITH A BIG CAN THAT HE...DOES STUFF WITH.
Holy shit, yes EXACTLY. She is kind of Miley the cat.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 22, 2013, 04:24:26 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 04:22:02 AM
BILL THE CAT.
That's what I'm seeing.
AHAHAHA, that's what my roommate's husband said. And then ran away crying to hide in the bathroom until I made the scary picture go away.
Twenty minutes later, he wanted to go to the gas station for some iced tea.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Now that my brain has unscared enough to be analytical, that thing. That thing she is wearing. Like many of the things she has worn recently, it is an exaggeration of a thing that is supposed to be sexy. But in its exaggeration, it has gone waaayyyy past sexy and delved deep into scary as fuck what is that I want to be innocent again.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 22, 2013, 09:16:52 AM
Now that my brain has unscared enough to be analytical, that thing. That thing she is wearing. Like many of the things she has worn recently, it is an exaggeration of a thing that is supposed to be sexy. But in its exaggeration, it has gone waaayyyy past sexy and delved deep into scary as fuck what is that I want to be innocent again.
When that high cut stuff was around, nobody wore it by itself. Everybody either had leggings under those, or else made a whole calculated, dressed-to-the-nines thing out of it, like Cher:
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2010/stylewatch/blog/100927/cher-500x375.jpg)
Miley just puts it on: "There. I'm dressed. Fuck you." :lulz:
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
I remember when she did that, and I was like, um, you're 40 and you look amazing, but seriously, no.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 22, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
I remember when she did that, and I was like, um, you're 40 and you look amazing, but seriously, no.
Oh, she was in great shape. It just doesn't work.
Miley does it and says NOT SEXY.
Cher did it saying TRYING TOO HARD TO BE SEXY.
She would have done much better in that jacket, a pair of jeans, and a tee shirt.
I know what the thing Cyrus is wearing reminds me of.
(http://www.sportramble.com/images/borat12.jpg)
Miley is kind of... rubbing our noses in it. "IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE? HUH? IS IT? WHAT'S THE MATTER, ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU FUCKING WANTED, PUNK?"
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 22, 2013, 10:50:53 PM
Miley is kind of... rubbing our noses in it. "IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE? HUH? IS IT? WHAT'S THE MATTER, ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU FUCKING WANTED, PUNK?"
That's what her entire career seems to be based on.
Aside from some very high-quality pop songs, I mean.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 22, 2013, 10:49:05 PM
I know what the thing Cyrus is wearing reminds me of.
(http://www.sportramble.com/images/borat12.jpg)
OMG, that's IT.
I'm only surprised that she waxed.
And yeah, Cher was apparently having a very public midlife crisis. The 80's were just a little bit off, almost anyplace you looked.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
There is something about Cher's face that makes me dislike her body. I know it doesn't make any sense, It just fascinates me that I can't figure out why my mind does this.
Quote from: :regret: on December 23, 2013, 01:03:56 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
There is something about Cher's face that makes me dislike her body. I know it doesn't make any sense, It just fascinates me that I can't figure out why my mind does this.
She was fine until she went nuts with the plastic surgery. Now she looks like she's wearing a mask of her own face. :(
It's sad when people won't just accept that their new faces and bodies are aging faces and bodies. I've seen some hot older women, but surgery just does weird things, especially repeated surgery.
It's true. Some people are hot and age gracefully, never losing their hawtness, but TV and insecurity and paranoia and whatever else tells them they're fugly and then everything goes to shit. :(
I remember reading somewhere, back when Cher got her lips done they used to fatten them with corpse cartilage.
KISS KISS
I don't think I know Miley Cyrus. Is she Billy Bob Thornton's daughter?
Quote from: Odibex Grallspice on December 23, 2013, 07:08:01 AM
I don't think I know Miley Cyrus. Is she Billy Bob Thornton's daughter?
Yes, that's the one.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 23, 2013, 03:27:27 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 23, 2013, 01:03:56 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
There is something about Cher's face that makes me dislike her body. I know it doesn't make any sense, It just fascinates me that I can't figure out why my mind does this.
She was fine until she went nuts with the plastic surgery. Now she looks like she's wearing a mask of her own face. :(
Well yeah, I just can't figure out why her plastic face makes me dislike her body. Maybe because of the similarities between a well trained body and a surgically sculpted face that make me think of her body as fake as well?
Quote from: :regret: on December 24, 2013, 01:46:35 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 23, 2013, 03:27:27 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 23, 2013, 01:03:56 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 22, 2013, 10:44:54 PM
Cher looks pathetic. :(
It's definitely not her thing.
There is something about Cher's face that makes me dislike her body. I know it doesn't make any sense, It just fascinates me that I can't figure out why my mind does this.
She was fine until she went nuts with the plastic surgery. Now she looks like she's wearing a mask of her own face. :(
Well yeah, I just can't figure out why her plastic face makes me dislike her body. Maybe because of the similarities between a well trained body and a surgically sculpted face that make me think of her body as fake as well?
I don't know but I can tell you why I don't like it. It's because of the uncanny valley. People who have had too many surgeries or bad or botched surgeries start to slop into it, and that makes their bodies suspect as well.
Oh and I can tell you with pretty good certainty that a body that tight at that age has seen its share of nip & tuck as well.
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4012/bhc2.jpg)
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
:lulz:
I'm so happy this thread is still kicking.
It will last as long as Miley keeps doing interesting shit. :P