If astral travel is possible, post death astral control may be also. I suspect reincarnation only happens as guided by conscious sentient beings, by intelligences keeping things under control, or by beings to have learned post death astral control wanting to reincarnate with past life recall. If no intermediary, I suspect astral ghosts just linger on.
Terence McKenna and others have speculated that the chimpanzee fossil transition happened because of foraging chimps coming across hallucinogenic mushrooms. My theory is that the upswing in love induced by the shrooms taught the chimps not only astral control, but also prophecy. Love is simple and nonimpulsive, "creative" because not conditioned by anything into an instinctive reaction. I believe a significant upswing in non impulsive energy provides the ability to trace causality.
The chimpanzees before fire would have encountered adrenaline filled blood in the raw meat. Adrenaline is in blood when fear causes the organism to secrete it. This could have addicted the old astral forms into demanding blood sacrifices as "the gods".
An addiction to blood, and love the source of the immortal elite's power structure. No matter how much love the post chimps obtained, their hearts may have only focused on their families and social cliches. By now, they have had so many thousands of years to prepare if invaded in too rambunctious a manner the elite would have prophesied for thousands of years where to put the various sections and subsections of their immortal military.
It may be possible for our vampire overlords to extract adrenaline directly from blood by psychic means, or through self hypnosis to produce it internally.
To obtain slack, it may be advisable to "suck up to" the elite by earning loyalty to the existing power structure and its actual top. I would advise only assisting a territory that doesn't invade the elite. Solve global warming, veganism, communal living... (edit: I almost extracted this vampire joke about sucking up like sucking blood because in poor taste if the vampires weren't real...)
To obtain slack, learn how to prophecy and how to scry. After learning to astral travel, and network from the astral plane.
To learn to astral travel, since you dream what you think before sleeping, write a few paragraphs before going to bed about astral travel and lucid dreaming, every night until you astral travel. To dedicate yourself in your efforts, practice telepathy by attempting to transmit to close friends and loved ones such thoughts as, I am going to touch my nose. Confirm out loud you knew I was going to do that. until a confirmed telepathic dialog is started.
Once you have a network of at least two, at least one astral traveler, have the astral traveler travel into the other friend's brain and extract all fear. Fearless friend should try to prophecy, astral friend should continue extracting all fear and program in an identification of success. If prophetic talent results, use the same method to scry the answer to slack-obtaining questions:
1) What is the fairest possible we two can achieve?
2) What is the highest on loyalty we two can score by the immortal vampire elite?
3) What is the most pleasure we two can realistically obtain?
4) What is the most freedom we two can achieve, and trigger in others?
The answer to question 2 may seem unimportant, but loyalty to the elite may be available by fair methodology, and translate to slack provided by the immortals to achieve serious goals.
Uh oh! Red flags!
Calling it now: 5 posts or less. Paging Doktor Howl, Doktor Howl to the surgery room...
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 02, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
To obtain slack, it may be advisable to "suck up to" the elite by earning loyalty to the existing power structure and its actual top
That is in fact how you get anti-Slack and go to normal boring hell.
Quote from: altered on April 02, 2022, 07:00:36 PM
Uh oh! Red flags!
Calling it now: 5 posts or less. Paging Doktor Howl, Doktor Howl to the surgery room...
Relax, it's just pinealism again. Only with Anne Rice stapled to the front of it.
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 02, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
The chimpanzees before fire would have encountered adrenaline filled blood in the raw meat. Adrenaline is in blood when fear causes the organism to secrete it. This could have addicted the old astral forms into demanding blood sacrifices as "the gods".
Naw. Adrenaline-soaked meat is tough and tasteless, and blood ain't
never good. Y'know why the ancients gave blood to their gods? So they could keep the good bits of the sacrifice for themselves. C.f. "The trick at Mecone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick_at_Mecone)".
Quote
since you dream what you think before sleeping,
Surely not. Such horrors gurgle frothily from my waking thoughts, that should they return even faintly in slumber, I would never sleep again.
That's also why I no longer attempt telepathy. It's hard to establish a genuine rapport when the slightest memetic transfer causes the other to scream uncontrollably, until they succumb to hypoxia and unconsciousness.
QuoteTo obtain slack, it may be advisable to "suck up to" the elite by earning loyalty to the existing power structure and its actual top.
QuoteThat is in fact how you get anti-Slack and go to normal boring hell.
You have a definite point, I admit. But think of it like this:
Paying taxes is sucking up to the visible power structure. You sustain unjust wars, victimless crime arrests and incarcerations, the corruption of the system. In return, sometimes the poor and the unhealthy are taken care of, you don't have to be homeless, and so on.
Instead of paying taxes, catering to the elite on loyalty could involve sleeping with Eris. She is famous enough to be a part of the immortal elite power structure. And maybe she's more experienced than you but you still qualify as a unique experience.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 04, 2022, 02:08:36 AM
Quote from: altered on April 02, 2022, 07:00:36 PM
Uh oh! Red flags!
Calling it now: 5 posts or less. Paging Doktor Howl, Doktor Howl to the surgery room...
Relax, it's just pinealism again. Only with Anne Rice stapled to the front of it.
You sure? Looks like Q shit to me. Check out the "adrenaline" thing.
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 04, 2022, 07:29:45 AM
Instead of paying taxes, catering to the elite on loyalty could involve sleeping with Eris. She is famous enough to be a part of the immortal elite power structure.
Who's this Eris person? Never heard of her. If she's anyone important, I'm sure she would want me to pay my taxes.
Quote from: altered on April 04, 2022, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 04, 2022, 02:08:36 AM
Quote from: altered on April 02, 2022, 07:00:36 PM
Uh oh! Red flags!
Calling it now: 5 posts or less. Paging Doktor Howl, Doktor Howl to the surgery room...
Relax, it's just pinealism again. Only with Anne Rice stapled to the front of it.
You sure? Looks like Q shit to me. Check out the "adrenaline" thing.
I don't actually see a functional difference; both exist in the expectation of the admiration of their peers for saying ever-more inane things.
But then he got on about taxes, so I defer to your judgement.
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 04, 2022, 07:29:45 AM
Paying taxes is sucking up to the visible power structure.
Along with, you know, roads & schools. And fire departments. And the tattered remnants of a social safety net.
QuoteInstead of paying taxes, catering to the elite on loyalty could involve sleeping with Eris.
Or you could pay me for me precious, irreplaceable time you have wasted on this garbage. Fucking seriously.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 05, 2022, 12:45:41 AM
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 04, 2022, 07:29:45 AM
Paying taxes is sucking up to the visible power structure.
Along with, you know, roads & schools. And fire departments. And the tattered remnants of a social safety net.
QuoteInstead of paying taxes, catering to the elite on loyalty could involve sleeping with Eris.
Or you could pay me for me precious, irreplaceable time you have wasted on this garbage. Fucking seriously.
I said that taxes have various substantial benefits. In your original post, you said that catering to the elite is anti-slack in response to my opinion that catering to the elite carefully (I didn't say in ways that aren't hypocritical or antithetical to Discordianism, in ways that don't enable, for example, the hypothetical vampirism, and I should have. However, taxes sustain every form of corruption of the system at the same time as sustaining every benefit the system provides in return.) could result in slack.
Roads, schools, a fire department, helping the poor, lack of homelessness, I see as examples of slack. Provided in exchange for catering to the elite on loyalty.
The Eris example is because I suspect that while the myths are fiction, they are based on real people, and that an actual Eris probably exists... more in keeping with Greek/Roman mythology than modern Discordianism. Although she may be a Discordian.
If it were really possible to prophecy the answer to any question,
How can I obtain the most slack?might be the best question. But I don't see anything wrong with,
Without going against my beliefs, how can I obtain the favoritism of the elite?Or:
Is the actual elite top an immortal immovable object unless negotiated with or can I and my Discordian allies topple it?
I am an idiot sometimes. I named myself Archangel Idiotis to poke fun at Moroni and myself.
I intended a joke to the Eris reference. Maybe it was ill thought out:
-if immortal vampire elites are real, in direct reference to "the gods," Eris is probably one of the immortals-in-charge, the rest of her nature a question mark
-catering on loyalty probably wouldn't, but really could too, involve prostituting one's self to an elite. Something someone might go for if authentically attracted
The joke was that taxes really could be transcended if one were to become "in," so, Wouldn't it be less hypocritical than sustaining US (or locality) government's corruptions and virtues to have sex with just one elite named Eris?
Quote from: ArchangelIdiotis on April 05, 2022, 01:56:44 AM
Eris is probably one of the immortals-in-charge
just like eris - #chaogirlboss
Okay, so I'm gonna let you have a chance to back your ass out of the fire here.
Do you really believe in immortal people, vampires, or any combination of the two?
Do you really believe in an evil cabal of people at the top of all of human existence that dictate all societal outcomes?
Do you really think Greek deities were based on real people who really existed?
Do you really think the right way to deal with societal ills is to eject all societal protections and benefits, to destroy the entire system and if someone couldn't move out of the way of the falling ceiling fast enough, fuck 'em, we'll rebuild on their bones?
What did you think you would get out of this?
Did you get what you wanted?
Are you proud of yourself?
Do you have any plans for how to proceed now?
Quote1)Do you really believe in immortal people, vampires, or any combination of the two?
2)Do you really believe in an evil cabal of people at the top of all of human existence that dictate all societal outcomes?
3)Do you really think Greek deities were based on real people who really existed?
4)Do you really think the right way to deal with societal ills is to eject all societal protections and benefits, to destroy the entire system and if someone couldn't move out of the way of the falling ceiling fast enough, fuck 'em, we'll rebuild on their bones?
5)What did you think you would get out of this?
6)Did you get what you wanted?
7)Are you proud of yourself?
8)Do you have any plans for how to proceed now?
1) I'm saying there's a chance.
2) I don't think of the most plausible elite as nearly that powerful. But I consider reincarnation (without past life recall) would be so there's a bulk population easy to control, when and only when there's pleasure in it.
3) Again, a chance. Lower than the probability #1 is true.
4) That wasn't what I was trying to communicate. I was saying taxes = catering to the elite for slack. If prophecying and scrying is validated as a reality by experimentation, it would most likely be possible to cater to the elite in ways that don't sustain as much corruption as taxes, and possibly obtain far better rewards for self/others. If fairness were useful to the elite, they'd bite. I wasn't denouncing taxes.
5) A dozen or so astral prophets.
6) They haven't contacted me.
7) I try to minimize pride.
8 - I quiver in fear of saying the wrong thing, and suffering social ridicule for it. My plan is to meekly submit to the impression my ideas are stupid, and move on to other topics.
I admit there are some holes in the drug addict vampire theory. Epinephrine has been synthesized, and it isn't very popular as far as drugs of abuse. But three (if memory serves) neurotransmitters of adrenaline secrete into the bloodstream, and this addiction would have evolved long before the good drugs like meth and heroin came about.
Quote from: altered on April 05, 2022, 02:44:49 AM
Okay, so I'm gonna let you have a chance to back your ass out of the fire here.
Do you really believe in immortal people, vampires, or any combination of the two?
Do you really believe in an evil cabal of people at the top of all of human existence that dictate all societal outcomes?
Do you really think Greek deities were based on real people who really existed?
Do you really think the right way to deal with societal ills is to eject all societal protections and benefits, to destroy the entire system and if someone couldn't move out of the way of the falling ceiling fast enough, fuck 'em, we'll rebuild on their bones?
What did you think you would get out of this?
Did you get what you wanted?
Are you proud of yourself?
Do you have any plans for how to proceed now?
I think you're chewing on a pillow. It hasn't a well-defined structure, it will take considerable effort to break it down, and you won't get anything for your trouble but a mouthful of feathers.
Nah, I got what I wanted already, CNO. This sounds like someone confronted with the fact that they're fucking bonkers and trying to modify their position to sound reasonable because they really DO believe their bullshit, but they don't have the spine to go full QAnon and alienate the universe. Too desperate to have conviction, too convinced to let go. No surprises here, and not worth any effort from this point onward.
Quote from: altered on April 05, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
Nah, I got what I wanted already, CNO. This sounds like someone confronted with the fact that they're fucking bonkers and trying to modify their position to sound reasonable because they really DO believe their bullshit, but they don't have the spine to go full QAnon and alienate the universe. Too desperate to have conviction, too convinced to let go. No surprises here, and not worth any effort from this point onward.
Ok, you caught me. I watered down my real opinion when I said, "I'm saying there's a chance."
I think the probability is 70% traditions of drinking blood to get high on adrenaline exist.
QuoteIn Roman times, Pliny wrote about the custom of drinking the blood of gladiators killed in the arena, also for self-improvement.
quote from https://verekeskus.ee/en/donate-blood/history/#:~:text=In%20Roman%20times%2C%20Pliny%20wrote,until%20the%2018th%20century. (https://verekeskus.ee/en/donate-blood/history/#:~:text=In%20Roman%20times%2C%20Pliny%20wrote,until%20the%2018th%20century.)
So, while historical examples of drinking blood exist, I don't know of any quotable examples of blood-for-adrenaline. But people sniff glue and eat paint thinner, huff gas, just to get high, so I don't see it as a stretch to think ancients might flock to what could have been the world's first speed.
Ultimately, it is none of my business if elites drink blood. I only brought it up because I thought it would generate interest in the telepathic exercise I illustrated.
65% chance ghosts are real, and so an immortal hierarchy has existed because of it.
I was joking about #8. The rest of my answers were just the truth.
Quote from: altered on April 05, 2022, 03:51:13 PM
Nah, I got what I wanted already, CNO. This sounds like someone confronted with the fact that they're fucking bonkers and trying to modify their position to sound reasonable because they really DO believe their bullshit, but they don't have the spine to go full QAnon and alienate the universe. Too desperate to have conviction, too convinced to let go. No surprises here, and not worth any effort from this point onward.
I guess you're right.
....eh, I spent two minutes finding this link, I may as well leave it here.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/535565
after reading that link, I honestly don't think the probability is above 50% traditions of drinking blood for adrenaline ever existed. Significantly below, actually, so I stand corrected.
Man, there's nothin' to do in this stupid town
rope swing's busted, stinking cops always kicking
me out of the park manager of the 7-11 always says
"get off my curb you good for nothing"
all the girls already know I'm a bad kisser so
they don't come anywhere near me I don't know how
many times I've been to TGIF a kid can eat an
onion bloom only so many times bowling's boring,
the skating rink's been taken over by 12 year olds
there ain't no good movies out, blockbuster never
has any good games in I don't want to play Bombad
Racing, I mean what the heck is that? I'm sick of
all my records and every time I walk into a record
store, I forget what I want to get and their ain't
nothing on TV, not a stupid thing! There ain't
nothing to do 'cept take naps and wait patiently
for death!
"I came here to take naps and wait patiently for death. And I don't take naps"
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