We need the Mob back. You remember them, the old guys with Italian accents? The ones who controlled their territories.
They were bad men, I know. They were into crime, yeah, that's what they did. And, yes they even killed people.
But what do we have now? A bunch of wild out of control fragmented gangs with no respect for anything.
The Mob, they had respect. They even gave back to their communities. There was no random killing, if there was killing it was isolated and with a purpose. For instance, if one of these gangs had tried to muscle in on the Old Mob, they wouldn't have made it. There would have been a small private war and then the streets would be back to normal.
In those days if you didn't want to get shot you were just careful who you stood next to. That doesn't work anymore.
Kids and gangs today, they have no respect.
Check out Providence, RI or Yonkers, NY. The mob is still very much entrenched there.
Quote from: Cramulus on September 01, 2010, 02:57:16 PM
Check out Providence, RI or Yonkers, NY. The mob is still very much entrenched there.
Have any gang problems?
can't speak to RI, but didn't they have a mayor get thrown out for mob connections back in like '02?
there are gangs in yonkers.
The fact that the cops are in bed with the mafia isn't a very well kept secret. The cops there fucking suck.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4c/Capaci_massacre.jpg)
The Capaci Massacre, carried out by the Sicilian Mafia against Judge Giovanni Falcone, using a 350kg dynamite bomb.
Cops have always been in bed with the mob. It started in prohibition when they didn't think it was worth getting shot to shit over somebody having a cocktail. Now it is considered supplemental income.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 01, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
But what do we have now? A bunch of wild out of control fragmented gangs with no respect for anything.
The Mob, they had respect. They even gave back to their communities. There was no random killing, if there was killing it was isolated and with a purpose.
That's not actually how it worked.
Providence is controlled by the Mob. Which is why I'm worried about the Hispanic mayoral candidate. He's too awesome and favored a lot...He's going to disappear before the election and then found 3 months later decapitated and buried halfway down the Seekonk River.
To even be considered to join the Mafia they've reinstated the old rule you have to murder someone. Usually that's someone the Mafia want murdered regardless, but not always.
Also, the Italian mafia frequently left car bombs on crowded streets in order to whack single targets, usually highly courageous judges who couldn't be bought or intimidated by them. Salvatore Riina was a psychopath, but it's not like anyone in the Sicilian mafia tried to stop him.
Yeah, there were a lot of those instances, and I was using Denver as a model. The Smaldones kept the place clean. After the Smaldones were all killed, Johnny V took over and he was a train wreck. Now it's just all gangs and bullets flying.
I miss Buddy Cianci. :(
See Also: Plunderdome.
We supposedly have a small mob. They own the BMW dealership downtown, and I have no idea who they are, if they're actually real (the person who told me that is a bit of a story teller).
But we have the Mexican and Armenian mafias here. The Mexican mafia's busy importing meth (which used to be a cottage industry here, but isn't anymore) and the Armenian one runs the town from behind the scenes. They don't give a shit about the bad part of town, which they ignore totally.
I agree fully.
Cianci might have been a mobster, but he actually cared about the city, it's image and the people. Providence is supposed to be a city of the arts, yet the new boss has closed down so many artist venues in favor of high-priced apartments that serve as summer homes for non-residents.
Providence is now about the pro-gay agenda, and the pro-gay agenda only (well, that, and removing the poor folk so the rich people don't have to see them when they fly in for a business meeting).
Not that I am anti-gay, by any means. Providence as a city of the arts automatically has a GBLT friendly image. My issue is, as a straight person, I don't like seeing the city advertised soley on the merits of its pro-gay features. There is much more (well, maybe not anymore) reasons for people to live here and vacation here, and for Cicciline to sell the other aspects of this city short becuase he is a gay man is a travesty. Sure, it makes us look good while the rest of the country catches up to meeting the standards set by Mass, RI and other pro-gay states, but what are we going to do to make the city stand out once the rest of the country catches up?
How I miss the mob.
Ciccilline is a piece of shit. I don't care if he's an Italian gay Jew.
Quote from: Cain on September 01, 2010, 03:23:58 PM
To even be considered to join the Mafia they've reinstated the old rule you have to murder someone. Usually that's someone the Mafia want murdered regardless, but not always.
Also, the Italian mafia frequently left car bombs on crowded streets in order to whack single targets, usually highly courageous judges who couldn't be bought or intimidated by them. Salvatore Riina was a psychopath, but it's not like anyone in the Sicilian mafia tried to stop him.
I think we just got stuck with the shitty psychopathic mafia, here in Europe. The USA version seems a lot nicer, being all cool and righteous and shit.
Organized crime varies wildly in America. There are and were plenty of criminals towards the more "honorable" end of the spectrum and plenty on the indiscriminate end.
In places where governments dare not tread, organized crime is often responsible for services such as sanitation...
Usually any established organized crime group is going to be less violent than those seeking to displace it. The Mafia displaced the Jewish and Irish street gangs by being vicious, cold-blooded killers and, once they reached the top, relaxed and started acting like philantrophists and "civic leaders" and the like. And then the cycle repeated itself with the Russian-Chechen Mafias and Mexican/Columbian/Latin American drug cartels seeking to displace them. That the Mafia in Italy and, to a certain extent, the USA, have returned to a more violent phase is because they are attempting to fight back and maintain control in a situation where their enemies can and frequently are more ruthless than they have been in the recent past.
Also, Anton, while that is entirely correct, it would be more accurate to say there is no sociological difference between government and an organized crime syndicate where the two are not competing for local loyalties. Both provide a form of security, "justice", code of conduct, provide basic goods and services, intervene in the market etc
The Japanese Yakuza actually have business cards identifying themselves as Yokuza. Plus whenever theres a national disaster theyre always the first on the scene(for photo-ops). And, when two rival factions of the Tokyo Yokuza broke out in war, they actually negotiated peace on national television.
That's more because the Yakuza own the Japanese Liberal Party (the one that has been in power roughly 99% of the time since the end of WWII) by the balls, know all its dirty little secrets and where the bodies are buried. The JLP used the Yakuza to crack down on Communists and unionists in the 50s and 60s, and more recently they helped engineer the Japanese property bubble by threatening people so they would move homes, allowing investors to come up, do up the homes and sell them at a significant profit (especially since the investors were being backed by Yakuza money, and the Yakuza would force the homeowners to sell their house to them at a very low price). Pretty much everyone in power is implicated in dealing with the Yakuza, whether they're bankers, politicians or CEOs, and so they can do pretty much damn well as they please.
The real irony though is that most Yakuza are far-right nationalists/Black Dragon Society enthusiasts and so despise the Liberal Party and it's pro-American, anti-militaristic stance. If they ever wanted a more prominent role in the politics of the country, things would get mighty interesting, especially with China.
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Quote from: Lord Glittersnatch on September 05, 2010, 08:48:43 PM
The Japanese Yakuza actually have business cards identifying themselves as Yokuza. Plus whenever theres a national disaster theyre always the first on the scene(for photo-ops). And, when two rival factions of the Tokyo Yokuza broke out in war, they actually negotiated peace on national television.
I was a very lucky Gaijin to get away with dancing amongst the Yakuza and their ladies in a parapara bar.
Only in retrospect did i discover there were fingers missing.
Quote from: Cain on September 05, 2010, 02:22:54 PM
Also, Anton, while that is entirely correct, it would be more accurate to say there is no sociological difference between government and an organized crime syndicate where the two are not competing for local loyalties. Both provide a form of security, "justice", code of conduct, provide basic goods and services, intervene in the market etc
Yes.
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Yes, well, sometimes government is necessary.
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Yeah on both counts. The megaphones, along with large amounts of human feces and the occasional "lethal mugging" was the primary way they got people who were being obstinate to move houses, in the aforementioned property bubble scheme.
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
I'm not lauding it, but I'm also not going to say everything is black and white.
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I am. No question.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I guess I always imagined that organized crime would be brought up in the context of an example of free enterprise in an argument against libertarianism.
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 08, 2010, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I guess I always imagined that organized crime would be brought up in the context of an example of free enterprise in an argument against libertarianism.
It's just business, the American Way™. Which are the bigger gangsters? Some collection of mooks in New York, or the Pentagon?
And, while I feel that Libertarians are silly, that doesn't mean that business doesn't work, in the sense that it feeds itself and grows (as opposed to "benefiting the public).
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 08, 2010, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I guess I always imagined that organized crime would be brought up in the context of an example of free enterprise in an argument against libertarianism.
It's just business, the American Way™. Which are the bigger gangsters? Some collection of mooks in New York, or the Pentagon?
And, while I feel that Libertarians are silly, that doesn't mean that business doesn't work, in the sense that it feeds itself and grows (as opposed to "benefiting the public).
This. And the fact that the mob was localized, you know, in their neighborhood and shit.
Quote from: Charley Brown on September 08, 2010, 04:59:32 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 08, 2010, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I guess I always imagined that organized crime would be brought up in the context of an example of free enterprise in an argument against libertarianism.
It's just business, the American Way™. Which are the bigger gangsters? Some collection of mooks in New York, or the Pentagon?
And, while I feel that Libertarians are silly, that doesn't mean that business doesn't work, in the sense that it feeds itself and grows (as opposed to "benefiting the public).
This. And the fact that the mob was localized, you know, in their neighborhood and shit.
Yep. And that leads to turf wars with the neighboring mobsters, and bullets flying around labelled "to whom it may concern". That happened all the time with Mob 1.0.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:54:25 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 08, 2010, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on September 08, 2010, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: eighteen buddha strike on September 06, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
Lol@ yakuza megaphones.
... but seriously, I never thought I'd see this board laud organized crime.
Why not?
Though I have to say that the OP is looking through some very heavy filters.
I guess I always imagined that organized crime would be brought up in the context of an example of free enterprise in an argument against libertarianism.
It's just business, the American Way™. Which are the bigger gangsters? Some collection of mooks in New York, or the Pentagon?
And, while I feel that Libertarians are silly, that doesn't mean that business doesn't work, in the sense that it feeds itself and grows (as opposed to "benefiting the public).
Exactly my point.
Quote from: Charley Brown
This. And the fact that the mob was localized, you know, in their neighborhood and shit.
Independent localized cells maybe, but international in its scope. More like a multi-national chain than a mom & pop store.
The American Mafia used to have a "board of directors" who would meet frequently in New York and coordinate activities nationwide.
And, as always, the Italian mafia are two steps ahead. The Comorra have branches all over Europe and into South America and even the Middle East. One of their favourite activities for their internationally inclined groups is people, arm and organ smuggling.
Damn. Organs? Ugh, that is sick.
They are responsible for most of the slavery in the western world, they are worse then the random violence guns flaring crowd, at least I know most drugged up street gangs aren't running the child sex trade.
Quote from: Faust on September 08, 2010, 05:36:53 PM
They are responsible for most of the slavery in the western world, they are worse then the random violence guns flaring crowd, at least I know most drugged up street gangs aren't running the child sex trade.
Of course, there's always the point that the mob does and always has recruited from street gangs.
In fact, the New York mob was basically formed by John Torrio out of the infamous 5 points gang.
Quote from: Faust on September 08, 2010, 05:36:53 PM
They are responsible for most of the slavery in the western world, they are worse then the random violence guns flaring crowd, at least I know most drugged up street gangs aren't running the child sex trade.
Although, as I quoted down in TFY,S, it seems that the police are running the child porn trade. But yeah. Brian Freemantle wrote an interesting book about organized crime in Europe called "The Octopus", which had chapters on both organ harvesting and the sex-slave trade.
Quote from: Cain on September 08, 2010, 07:19:37 PM
Quote from: Faust on September 08, 2010, 05:36:53 PM
They are responsible for most of the slavery in the western world, they are worse then the random violence guns flaring crowd, at least I know most drugged up street gangs aren't running the child sex trade.
Although, as I quoted down in TFY,S, it seems that the police are running the child porn trade. But yeah. Brian Freemantle wrote an interesting book about organized crime in Europe called "The Octopus", which had chapters on both organ harvesting and the sex-slave trade.
This I didn't know, yikes.
From Judith Levine's
Harmful to Minors, page 37
QuoteAttorney Lawrence Stanley, who published in the Benjamin A. Cardozo Law Review what is widely considered the most thorough research of child pornography in the 1980s, concluded that the pornographers were almost exclusively cops. In 1990 at a southern California police seminar, the LAPD's R. P. "Toby" Tyler proudly announced as much. The government had shellacked the competition, he said; now law enforcement agencies were the sole reproducers and distributors of child pornography. Virtually all advertising, distribution, and sales to people considered potential lawbreakers were done by the federal government, in sting operations against people who have demonstrated (through, for instance, membership in NAMBLA) what agents regard as predisposition to commit a crime. These solicitations were numerous and did not cease until the recipient took the bait. "In other words, there was no crime until the government seduced people into committing one," Stanley wrote.
If, as police claim, looking at child porn inspires molesters to go out and seduce living children, why were the feds doing the equivalent of distributing matches to arsonists? Their answer is: to stop the molesters before they strike again. Newspaper reports of arrests uniformly follow the same pattern: a federal agent poses as a minor online, hints at a desired meeting or agrees to one should the mark suggest it, and then arrests the would-be molester when he shows up. But another logical answer to the almost exclusive use of stings to arrest would-be criminals is that the government, frustrated with the paucity of the crime they claim is epidemic and around which huge networks of enforcement operations have been built, have to stir the action to justify their jobs.