Messages

huh, i wonder if this is why Japan can be so socially conservative yet have some of the weirdest subcultures and entertainment.

yea, i kinda pictured him as Rincewind by way of John Constantine.

Ooh i got one; I call him Clusterfuck, The Human Disaster! Cursed by an evil gypsy, he has the power to distort probability in his immediate area. The problem is nothing bad ever happens to him, yet everything that can go wrong around him, does. He works in one of the largest casinos in Vegas as a cooler, basically getting paid to stand next to high rollers or to go gamble at competing casinos.

The twist is that Clusterfuck isn't exactly a hero.He doesn't wear a cape or costume and Clusterfuck, the human disaster is what he sarcastically calls himself in his head whenever he's compared to a superhero. He can't turn off or control this ability, so his adventures instead revolve around him getting caught up in shenanigans and trying to escape without causing too much of a bloodbath. So instead of him busting up a bank robbery, he would happen to be at the bank to begin with. Thieves would take hostages, and he'd be trying to escape, not because he's a coward but because his presence there will fuck up everyone's day: the thieves' tools will fail to crack the safe, a cops gun will go off, unexpectedly causing a gunfight, during which other hostages will get caught in the crossfire.

He's a miserable sod who has to live without letting anyone get too close for an extended period of time, as he tries to find a way to lift the curse.

This discussion got off the track of my original statement, which was that the Protest Culture™ is largely ineffective in the West. I was not talking about actual protests/riots that have overtaken a number of countries around the planet and resulted in at least some kind of deviation from the established norms in those countries. I was talking specifically about what it means to protest in the West, specifically in America.

And what I was saying was that here, where things are relatively comfortable for most people, protests are pretty harmless to the status quo. Occupy has done absolutely nothing to threaten Big Money, or really even to spread meaningful awareness of the problems caused and exacerbated by the financial industry. Throngs of people in Wisconsin didn't stop Governor Brown from sticking it to unions. In Texas massive protests failed to garner the support of anyone who wasn't already on the protesters' side, or impede the advancement of the draconian laws on their agenda. Anonymous has been known to take a web page offline for a day or two, and seriously annoy a handful Scientologists, but beyond that I'm not sure exactly what it is they're accomplishing.

It isn't that protests are inherently powerless, it's that they are now a known entity and as such the status quo can stay out of their reach. A protest is just a lot of people stinking up a park for a while, as far as anyone in power is concerned. Protests can't last forever, and even if they could, who cares? A permanent street fair isn't going to hurt anything. To be successful, a mass protest must be a display of popular force, not popular sentiment. That doesn't mean rioting or property damage is necessary, but you've got to do more than just show up with a picket sign and chant slogans. Organized civil disobedience is a form of protest that goes a long way toward making a difference, for example.

I'm just saying that as long as there are so many people more interested in identifying themselves as subversive than in actually subverting anything, their squawking is mostly harmless. And any movement that gives people a venue to vent their frustration will be allowed, and even encouraged, so long as that movement remains ineffective at really upsetting the social order. Anonymous manufacturing their most recognizable symbol in a sweatshop isn't the problem, but it's symbolic of a situation where identifying yourself as an agent of change is culturally equivalent to actually being an agent of change.

So you're moving your goalposts again, this time to declare that protesting in the West, specifically, has no effect.

And you're choosing to ignore the many, many examples I posted of cultural and political change that were brought on through protest and activism why, exactly?

Not moving goalposts. You're the one who decided I was talking about protests worldwide when from the beginning that was not the case. I was specifically talking about protesters in the West being more concerned with joining a subculture than actually protesting anything.

This discussion got off the track of my original statement, which was that the Protest Culture™ is largely ineffective in the West. I was not talking about actual protests/riots that have overtaken a number of countries around the planet and resulted in at least some kind of deviation from the established norms in those countries. I was talking specifically about what it means to protest in the West, specifically in America.

Again, do you think the right for Gays to marry just happened?  Or the right for them to not have the shit kicked out of them with a wink and a nod from the legal system just appeared?

That's one example.  I can name a lot of others.

No, but I'm not convinced it was protests that got that done. Protests were part of it, maybe, but I think most of the progress in that area specifically came from a cultural shift at the lowest levels. The LGBTQ community was portrayed positively in media on a large scale; gays began to tell their stories and share their experiences and come out of the closet in larger numbers; almost everyone in the country can say they have a gay friend, relative, or coworker. It wasn't Gay Pride parades or picket signs that changed America's mind, it was forcing people to account for the way they personally treated others that caused a huge shift in popular sentiment.

You seem to be wilfully overlooking the fact that the cultural shift happened in the first place because of queers refusing to stay hidden, ie. protesting. Are you familiar with the Stonewall Riots?

I am incredulous that you don't think protests, Pride parades, etc. were influential in shifting general public attitudes to gays towards acceptance. Absolutely just WTF.

I think you are digging in your heels, and the thing is, not only are you wrong, you are documentably, demonstrably wrong.

The Stonewall Riots and pride parades weren't and aren't inconsequential, they're just not the most important or most influential source of the changing popular perception of gays. Those attitudes didn't even start changing until 20 years after the Stonewall Riots, and while they have changed as a result of LGBTQ people protesting, it was protest in the truest sense of the word: refusing to be the subject of abuse and mistreatment by the system; acts of civil disobedience and firmly claiming and defending one's dignity. This is not the sense of protesting I'm talking about and I think I've repeated that quite a few times. I'm not talking about civil disobedience, I'm talking about showing up at a rally to wave a flag or chant something instead of actually doing anything, and the tendency to accept that kind of frivolous "protest" as all that really needs to happen to instigate change.

Why is wanting to belong to a subculture so bad? And hasn't that always been the case in every movement? Some Punks were in it to piss off their parents, some hippies were in it for the drugs and the sex, and some beatniks just looked REALLY good in berets. It's not that having these sorts of individuals is a new thing, its that the news media focuses on them as a more convenient  and entertaining narrative to help spin protests into something that can be either laughed at or ignored.

as for what really needs to be done, I think one thing that needs to be addressed is expectations. Rebels get all excited to riot in the streets and then get disappointed when all their catharsis results in them having nothing but a bunch of broken windows and a police record. Sometimes, effective movements have to be prepared to do boring things like coalition building and legislative lobbying in order to win small reasonable victories over a long period of time.

also this:http://www.cracked.com/video_18560_why-its-time-to-stop-calling-everything-hipster.html

this is a really great piece, I think i have some thinking to do. 

the immense money-hemmoraghes caused by the Anonymous Protests.

well, i'd thoiught the video i'd posted was pretty clear, but alright...

Scientology's Richest Member Leaves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGlxaC34m0&NR=1

Jason Beghe speaks out on Scientology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUjMz9-W2I

ABC's Interview with Jenna Miscavige( parts 1 and two)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExszasJngV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6qd-qQbt0&feature=related

Furthermore, all this hoopla the church makes over each protest isnt exactlya financial boon. Hiring PIs, blocking sidewalks, and filing lawsuits does not come cheap. I'll admit that anonymous is not solely responsible for this, but my point is the church is in pretty sorry shape no matter how you slice it.

EDIT: in retrospect, i was really arrogant and stupid here, if anyone needs me, i'll be in the corner wearing the n00bcap

But, if thats true, then how does one "science"?

I'd guess this is their attempt to come back form the immense money-hemmoraghes caused by the Anonymous Protests. Their recruitment and resources are dwindling, plus they're soon to be banned in several european countries. http://youtube.com/watch?v=eE02JcymqJk

We've hurt them bad, plain and simple.

beast made of cunning
or shit-for-brains news station
only you can choose

Keith Olbermann

Tender moment then
leads to sex, but wait a tic--
What the shit is that!?

The love life of NP

Hey, remember that
show that used to be on Nick?
alas, me neither

NT: childhood memories

Mudkip?

colors like salmon
and teal are just pink and green
to those with testes

NT: testes

Fuck Fuck shit titty
douche bag cunt retarded fag
dont i sound so smart?


NT: trains

War of attrition
Oh fucking hell, a grenade!
My face is no more

NT: Poodles