If any of you are familiar with Alan Watts, you should know that the man viewed the world as a spontaneous, wiggly, almost chaotic thing; his ideas were very Discordian. He also knew Robert Anton Wilson before the Principia was written (evidence: http://www.ep.tc/realist/14/ - an interview with alan watts conducted by raw back in 1960 and the principia was first printed off of jim garrison's xerox machine in 1963). Also, Robert Anton Wilson (in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGWJA9yfZ24) claims to have written parts of the principia, so it is evident that it was not written solely by mal the younger and lord omar. But, I do not think that Alan Watts just chipped in a couple of phrases or stories - I think that Alan Watts had a very significant role in the writing of the Principia. I think that mal the younger was not Greg Hill as Robert Anton Wilson claimed. If you do any research into the matter, you will find that there is no record of any Greg Hill. Where did that name come from? I read in Alan Watts's autobiography that Greg Hill was in fact the name of a main character in a story he wrote when he was a kid. And I quote (pg. 23, paragraph 9): "I remember as a child, I was a very avid writer and one of the first stories I had written was of a strange fellow named Gregory Hill..."
So, since Robert Anton Wilson knew Alan Watts before the principia was written, since Greg Hill did not exist and Alan Watts came up with that name when he was a kid, and since Alan Watts's philosophy is very (almost eerily) similar to what is found in Discordianism, then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that Alan Watts was Malaclypse the Younger and that he wrote the Principia Discordia???
Also, I had sent an email to Mark Watts quite some time ago asking if Alan Watts was really Malaclypse the Younger. Mark Watts never replied. So, I must conclude one of two things: that Mark Watts was trying to keep his dad's secret identity a secret or that Mark Watts is a jerk. I am inclined to think that Mark Watts was not a jerk, because of the fact that he had a really cool dad. Also, it would be reasonable for Mark Watts (and Alan Watts) to try to hide his participation in the writing of the Principia Discordia; if it got out that Alan Watts wrote the Principia, then Alan Watts would be looked at as a freak by all the people who were already casting him aside as a freaky hippy guy.
So, in short, Alan Watts = Malaclypse the Younger.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1808/calhi2.jpg)
(http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2475/gregoryhill.jpg)
Thanks for the link to the interview, tho!
Quote from: tangidybobidy on September 26, 2009, 04:44:07 AM
Lies! :argh!:
Sir, anyone can take a random picture on the web and declare it to be anyone. Hey, look, it's GI Gurdjieff:
http://petticoatsandpistols.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/img_6416.jpg
I think that those pictures that you posted are simply fakes. Unless you are able to verify those pictures.
And even if you are able to verify those pictures, how do you know that that Greg hill is the Greg Hill who Robert Anton Wilson claimed wrote the Principia Discordia?
Your claims are subject to the same demands. I demand proof that those videos are made of bits and bytes, furthermore.
Beh, clearly it was a young Ronald Reagan that wrote the thing. This is especially evident when you read Steve Jackson's version.
Quote from: tangidybobidy on September 26, 2009, 04:44:07 AM
Hey, look, it's GI Gurdjieff:
http://petticoatsandpistols.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/img_6416.jpg
:lulz:
Are you 10?
outlandish
"So open minded that your brain falls out."
See, when Kerry pulled this shtick (via the John Dillinger Died For You Society, and the Free Play For Switzerland Society), he target groups who would immediately swallow his theories on the Illuminati and regurgitate them to their sheeple following, along with the embedded misinformation and aggrandizement. I really don't see that happening here.
:kingmeh:
Quote from: Broken AI on September 28, 2009, 06:21:33 AM
I'm not suggesting. Its a fact.
Everyone knows that Nixon co wrote the PD while tripping balls with RAW.
Hell yes he did.
:lulz: noobs gone wrong... :?
what happened to this guy?
did his profile get deleted?
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!
Man, I'd love to get a hold of some copies of "The Realist" and some of those other periodicals that Thornley published
so I've been looking into this
I wasn't familliar with Alan Watts before
and this isn't
that farfetched of a theory
if anything, lectures like these (http://library.holtof.com/unicorn/watts/the_value_of_psychotic_experience.htm) convince me that in 1959, Mal and Omar may have been reading Alan Watts and listening to his Berkely radio broadcasts. If he's not an author, he's an uncle.
Quote...And that is the attitude we have to have in regard to everything deviant, psychotic, and weird. Because we are not sure what's right, who's sane, which end is up. In a relativistic universe, you don't cling to anything, you learn to swim. And you know what swimming is. It's a kind of relaxed attitude to the water, in which you don't keep yourself afloat by holding the water, but by a certain giving to it, and it's just the same with relationships to people all around.
I really liked this part:
QuoteA Chinese story, kind of a Taoistic story about a farmer. One day, his horse ran away, and all the neighbors gathered in the evening and said 'that's too bad.' He said 'maybe.' Next day, the horse came back and brought with it seven wild horses. 'Wow!' they said, 'Aren't you lucky!' He said 'maybe.' He next day, his son grappled with one of these wild horses and tried to break it in, and he got thrown and broke his leg. And all the neighbors said 'oh, that's too bad that your son broke his leg.' He said, 'maybe.' The next day, the conscription officers came around, gathering young men for the army, and they rejected his son because he had a broken leg. And the visitors all came around and said 'Isn't that great! Your son got out.' He said, 'maybe.'
a casual google search reveals RAW riffing on this rumor too, in the foreward to the PD
Quote from: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/1.phpIn 1968, virtually nobody had heard of this wonderful book. In 1970, hundreds of people coast to coast were talking about it and asking the identity of the mysterious author, Malaclypse the Younger. Rumors swept across the continent, from New York to Los Angeles, from Seattle to St. Joe. Malaclypse was actually Alan Watts, one heard. No, said another legend -- the Principia was actually the work of the Sufi Order. A third, very intriguing myth held that Malaclypse was a pen-name for Richard M. Nixon, who had allegedly composed the Principia during a few moments of lucidity. I enjoyed each of these yarns and did my part to help spread them. I was also careful never to contradict the occasional rumors that I had actually written the whole thing myself during an acid trip.
I'm pretty sure RAW was name-checking Watts from the beginning.
:lulz:
If you read one of Thornley's books with Zenarchy in the title (I cannot remember which one) its pretty obvious he was heavily influenced by Alan Watts. I'm sure his name was mentioned several times, and even when it wasn't, it was pretty clear when he was discussing him.
I'm kinda surprised all you guys think this is news though, since its there in print for everyone to read.
Bob was heavily inspired by Alan Watts... he mentions him several times in books and lectures. Alan was the guy that coined our lovely meme "The Menu is not the Meal". I think in one lecture Bob says that Alan was the guy that introduced him to Count Korby and General Semantics.
Alan often spoke from the perception of psychology, sociology or spirituality depending on his audience. It was that liquidity of models that inspired Bob's later Model Agnosticism. I think its pretty likely that Mal and Omar were somewhat influenced as well, since Alan was pretty much THE guy for all things Zen back in the late 50's and early 60's. And of course, for those of us who like the more occult bits... Alan claimed that the early Christians practiced a particular sex act... the same act that Crowley wrote about and RAW was enlightened by when reading the Book of Lies*.
Alan Watts was also one of the founders of the more Libertarian Hippie viewpoint which heavily influenced Thronley and RAW (either directly or indirectly).
Or its all made up bullshit and half of these people never existed.
* I never read the Alan Watts book that discussed sex practices... so I am unsure if he was supporting the argument that there was a secret Christian group doing this... or if he was claiming that there was NOT a Christian group doing it...
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 30, 2009, 04:04:04 PM
Alan claimed that the early Christians practiced a particular sex act... the same act that Crowley wrote about and RAW was enlightened by when reading the Book of Lies*.
The so-called "secrecy" of this bit always confused me... It's my understanding that, apart from a minority of sex-inhibited wackos, it's a fairly universal practice, and not something secretive, special, or even that interesting.
Quote from: LMNO on September 30, 2009, 04:19:19 PM
Quote from: Doctor Rat Bastard on September 30, 2009, 04:04:04 PM
Alan claimed that the early Christians practiced a particular sex act... the same act that Crowley wrote about and RAW was enlightened by when reading the Book of Lies*.
The so-called "secrecy" of this bit always confused me... It's my understanding that, apart from a minority of sex-inhibited wackos, it's a fairly universal practice, and not something secretive, special, or even that interesting.
It seems common among many societies. The debate Alan was involved in, was if it used to be known to Christians and was later hidden by the Church. From what I can tell after a quick Google, he may NOT have believed it (he seemed to think that hiding such a secret was probably highly unlikely). Overall though, I think post-Medieval Europe and America were relatively unaware of the practice until the 20th century (with the exception of sex magic practitioners) based in large part on guys like Watts, Huxley and Wilson (as well as several others in those circles).
Bullshit. It featured heavily in the works of deSade, and other erotic writers pre-20th century.
Quote from: LMNO on September 30, 2009, 04:33:56 PM
Bullshit. It featured heavily in the works of deSade, and other erotic writers pre-20th century.
OH! Good point! I had completely forgotten about deSade!
I have about a gig of alan watts lectures--id be happy to share if there's an interest.
Quote from: LMNO on September 30, 2009, 04:33:56 PM
Bullshit. It featured heavily in the works of deSade, and other erotic writers pre-20th century.
So how did deSade frame it? I can't find a decent reference and I can't remember reading it...
Just to be clear, we're talking about "The Way to Succeed," right?
Quote from: LMNO on September 30, 2009, 06:54:07 PM
Just to be clear, we're talking about "The Way to Succeed," right?
Oh! No, I was talking about the Tantraish practice of the male brinking at the climax without actually climaxing. The oral sex bit was definitely pretty well known in Europe! :lulz:
Ah. Hmmm. I withdraw my criticism for now.
Quote from: LMNO on September 30, 2009, 07:20:30 PM
Ah. Hmmm. I withdraw my criticism for now.
::lulz:
Well, it wasn't really clear...
I mean The Way To Succeed is sort of covers them both.
:lmnuendo: