Given the choice, which 'school' would you attend?
http://www.schlachtschule.org/index.html
oder
http://academyofarms.com/index.html
und warum?
Academy of arms seems less full of itself. This is always a bonus.
Dude, find your local branch of the SCA. They won't charge an arm and a leg, and they're a hell of a lot more fun.
Hell wrap half a 2x4 in duct tape and convince a friend to let you try to whack him with it. Always worked for me.
Schlachtschule, because you know it will be eines wunderbar place to practice seinen Deutschesprach.
SCT
-whose German ist jetzt sehr schlecht and mucho broken.
I'd say look for something that offers both technique instruction and full-contact sparing. You really need both to get a well rounded sense, and some groups seem to focus on striking poses and learning techniques, never actually using them with speed or intent.
The SCA will provide the sparring bit! IT also gives you an appreciation for the problems of moving in armor, and how to use more than your arm to move the sword. It's a sport though, has a sport's limitations, and it's easy to loose sight of techniques in favor of "swinging a huge pole like a bat until they give in works"
The SCA is not martial arts. It's a goddamn sport. He'll learn nothing other than useless wrap shots. We can't guarantee he'll have the same level of instruction we do with our fencing group, not all kingdoms or baronies play that way. Shit, most of the EK doesn't play that way, for starters, we got lucky.
Fortunately, when I halved my blade in Florida, the Trimaris guy knew what was up and played Talhoffer with me, other fighter have kittens.
If he's serious about learning a medieval martial art, he needs to get in touch with the ISMAC guys and get a referral to a school in his area. If he can attend ISMAC in Vegas, even better.
Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 28, 2011, 05:41:02 AM
Schlachtschule, because you know it will be eines wunderbar place to practice seinen Deutschesprach.
SCT
-whose German ist jetzt sehr schlecht and mucho broken.
This post made my fluency progress go back 3 steps.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 28, 2011, 05:41:02 AM
Schlachtschule, because you know it will be eines wunderbar place to practice seinen Deutschesprach.
SCT
-whose German ist jetzt sehr schlecht and mucho broken.
This post made my fluency progress go back 3 steps.
Happy to help. Oder, hilfen sint Spass! (?) Really, it's been toooooooo many years, but the random German thought/word still rolls through my brain.
Oh and to Don Coyote... I stand by my choice also, because the Schlachtschule guy seems so damn serious. Wonder what his breaking point is?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on March 27, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
Academy of arms seems less full of itself. This is always a bonus.
How so?
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 12:29:30 AM
Dude, find your local branch of the SCA. They won't charge an arm and a leg, and they're a hell of a lot more fun.
The SCA is no because:
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:31:14 PM
The SCA is not martial arts. It's a goddamn sport. He'll learn nothing other than useless wrap shots.
Sword and board in plate harness? :lulz: "No you can't play with us like that because it's not period, but we like to fight in plate with basket-hilted swords and large shields"
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 28, 2011, 05:41:02 AM
Schlachtschule, because you know it will be eines wunderbar place to practice seinen Deutschesprach.
SCT
-whose German ist jetzt sehr schlecht and mucho broken.
This post made my fluency progress go back 3 steps.
Sexecution uses Horridbad German on Suu. It's super effective.
Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 28, 2011, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Sexecutioner Chao Tight on March 28, 2011, 05:41:02 AM
Schlachtschule, because you know it will be eines wunderbar place to practice seinen Deutschesprach.
SCT
-whose German ist jetzt sehr schlecht and mucho broken.
This post made my fluency progress go back 3 steps.
Happy to help. Oder, hilfen sint Spass! (?) Really, it's been toooooooo many years, but the random German thought/word still rolls through my brain.
Oh and to Don Coyote... I stand by my choice also, because the Schlachtschule guy seems so damn serious. Wonder what his breaking point is?
Well he does have a yahoo group.....
Also, things to remember...I got this tidbit of information from Professore Mark Donnelly out of the UK when he was at SPWF last year:
All of the Fechtbucher are treatises. Not textbooks. You're looking at an ADVERTISEMENT for a system or a school, not the entire how-to. This makes things a bit difficult, since the people who wrote the treatises are long since, well dead, and so are those that studied their systems for the most part. You can only learn so much from a book, ya know? We have a good time at our rapier academy, but in the end, we only know what's in the 1.33 Walpurgis Manuscript and a bit of Talhoffer and Liechtenauer because of what we've read. Chances are we're not executing them correctly, which is dangerous...and that's how people get hurt.
You're best bet, before you pick a school, is to do a considerable amount of research on who teaches what, and has trained with whom, to give you the best education for your buck.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
Also, things to remember...I got this tidbit of information from Professore Mark Donnelly out of the UK when he was at SPWF last year:
All of the Fechtbucher are treatises. Not textbooks. You're looking at an ADVERTISEMENT for a system or a school, not the entire how-to. This makes things a bit difficult, since the people who wrote the treatises are long since, well dead, and so are those that studied their systems for the most part. You can only learn so much from a book, ya know? We have a good time at our rapier academy, but in the end, we only know what's in the 1.33 Walpurgis Manuscript and a bit of Talhoffer and Liechtenauer because of what we've read. Chances are we're not executing them correctly, which is dangerous...and that's how people get hurt.
You're best bet, before you pick a school, is to do a considerable amount of research on who teaches what, and has trained with whom, to give you the best education for your buck.
You are using I.33, Talhoffer and Liechtenauer with rapiers? :? :?
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 28, 2011, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
Also, things to remember...I got this tidbit of information from Professore Mark Donnelly out of the UK when he was at SPWF last year:
All of the Fechtbucher are treatises. Not textbooks. You're looking at an ADVERTISEMENT for a system or a school, not the entire how-to. This makes things a bit difficult, since the people who wrote the treatises are long since, well dead, and so are those that studied their systems for the most part. You can only learn so much from a book, ya know? We have a good time at our rapier academy, but in the end, we only know what's in the 1.33 Walpurgis Manuscript and a bit of Talhoffer and Liechtenauer because of what we've read. Chances are we're not executing them correctly, which is dangerous...and that's how people get hurt.
You're best bet, before you pick a school, is to do a considerable amount of research on who teaches what, and has trained with whom, to give you the best education for your buck.
You are using I.33, Talhoffer and Liechtenauer with rapiers? :? :?
Several of the guys play with 2-handed blades. (Me, I haven't gotten the hang of it, I like my sword & dagger.)
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 28, 2011, 04:07:37 PM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 28, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
Also, things to remember...I got this tidbit of information from Professore Mark Donnelly out of the UK when he was at SPWF last year:
All of the Fechtbucher are treatises. Not textbooks. You're looking at an ADVERTISEMENT for a system or a school, not the entire how-to. This makes things a bit difficult, since the people who wrote the treatises are long since, well dead, and so are those that studied their systems for the most part. You can only learn so much from a book, ya know? We have a good time at our rapier academy, but in the end, we only know what's in the 1.33 Walpurgis Manuscript and a bit of Talhoffer and Liechtenauer because of what we've read. Chances are we're not executing them correctly, which is dangerous...and that's how people get hurt.
You're best bet, before you pick a school, is to do a considerable amount of research on who teaches what, and has trained with whom, to give you the best education for your buck.
You are using I.33, Talhoffer and Liechtenauer with rapiers? :? :?
Liechtenhauer is a "fencing" style, and it's mostly positions and parries anyway (and it totally fucking works, mind you.) Talhoffer is only effective if your blade is over 40", and you can fight with a federschwert in the SCA in the rapier lists now anyway, it's a long sword treatise, and the I.33 is buckler. They're all applicable.
Fiore and Capoferro only go so far, and that's what EVERYONE uses. German techniques are superior to Italian. Italian and Spanish were courtly and fancy, used more for penis extension street brawls rather than effective military-style killin'. If you want to do a gentlemanly duel and look pretty, play Fiore. If you want to WIN, play Talhoffer.
WUT?
They allow feders in rapier lists now?
OK, you just fucking blew my mind.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 28, 2011, 04:24:36 PM
WUT?
They allow feders in rapier lists now?
OK, you just fucking blew my mind.
Next time they're playing with 'em, I'll see if I can get some pics for ya.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 28, 2011, 04:24:36 PM
WUT?
They allow feders in rapier lists now?
OK, you just fucking blew my mind.
Long gone are the days of epee and foil. We fight with true rapier and schlager blades now, as well as approved carbon steel broad blades as long as you follow the SCA fencing rules. (thrusts, tip cuts and draw cuts. No percussive hits, that's for Cut and Thrust combat rules, which in the EK is another rapier qual.)
I'mma getting me one of these eventually: (http://www.alcheminc.com/turkichilts.jpg)
I'll keep that in mind.
So is this oldskool blade fighting actually useful in some sort of modern setting, or is it really just cool to fight with olsdkool swords and shit?
Of course in the US it's always "don't bring a knife to a gunfight", but say there aren't any guns (like in most of Europe) (except of course you're also not allowed to carry swords in most of Europe).
Is this useful?
What if you don't have a sword but just a longish knife? Where do you learn to use those? [though most practical martial arts teachers will tell you, if there's a knife, gtfo, cause it'll slash you just too fucking easily, even if you got all the skills in the world]
I'm just wondering. I'm strictly interested in the practical/realistic side of learning how to fight (even though I'm not that skilled in it, like, about 6x3 hours of ju-jitsu skilled, but I'll start again this summer, I think)
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 28, 2011, 11:13:08 PM
So is this oldskool blade fighting actually useful in some sort of modern setting, or is it really just cool to fight with olsdkool swords and shit?
Of course in the US it's always "don't bring a knife to a gunfight", but say there aren't any guns (like in most of Europe) (except of course you're also not allowed to carry swords in most of Europe).
Is this useful?
What if you don't have a sword but just a longish knife? Where do you learn to use those? [though most practical martial arts teachers will tell you, if there's a knife, gtfo, cause it'll slash you just too fucking easily, even if you got all the skills in the world]
I'm just wondering. I'm strictly interested in the practical/realistic side of learning how to fight (even though I'm not that skilled in it, like, about 6x3 hours of ju-jitsu skilled, but I'll start again this summer, I think)
No. Not really. Especially the
Harnischfechten. Others will disagree, but generally no.
Ringen sure and some
dolchfecten, but a good deal of that still focused towards wearing armor and defeating a similar armed and armoured singular oppenent.
It's just for fun. For a given value of fun. It could have self-defense viability, but if that is your sole purpose for studying the old school stuff, be better off taking something specifically self-defense oriented.
Main advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
It builds confidence, which shows on or off the field. This is a big one for me, considering I often walk home at night through the city after midnight. If you walk like a victim, you get treated like one. Walk like you'll kick a fucker's ass if he tries something, odds are they'll look for easier prey.
Fighting in the SCA, you build melee sense. You're more aware of what's going on around you, who's a threat, and what movement is happening.
Oh ya, it's exercise. Knew I forgot a good reason. :lulz:
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 11:55:39 PMMain advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
Danger. Yeah, I often get the same sense when playing korfball.
Mystery where they get the swords from every time, though.
Quote from: Triple Zero on March 29, 2011, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 11:55:39 PMMain advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
Danger. Yeah, I often get the same sense when playing korfball.
Mystery where they get the swords from every time, though.
Korfball? Interesting... (Had to Google that one.) Yep, any team sport would likely help with that, too. :lulz:
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 11:55:39 PM
Main advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
It builds confidence, which shows on or off the field. This is a big one for me, considering I often walk home at night through the city after midnight. If you walk like a victim, you get treated like one. Walk like you'll kick a fucker's ass if he tries something, odds are they'll look for easier prey.
Fighting in the SCA, you build melee sense. You're more aware of what's going on around you, who's a threat, and what movement is happening.
But for someone like me, with almost 20 years of martial arts experience, the way we train in the SCA is kind of a fucking joke. I've told you all before. It's fun, it's exercise, but 90% of the time not practical.
I learned awareness of my situation growing up in a rough city. The way real people move on drugs or even on the adrenaline of wanting to attack you outside of a game or a sport is WAY different than you think. I can tell malicious intent by the way someone is looking at me, or moving toward me. On the battlefield, you don't move like that, you aren't out to kill, you're out to swishy poke and get a swig of water. Same thing with an Eastern style tournament. You're padded, you're just applying your techniques in a sport-like setting, and you have no idea how it would feel to side kick an unprotected rib or break a wrist for REAL outside of drills. (I have, and it's NOT PLEASANT. In fact, it's a bit nerve-wracking.)
Training in a sport does not give you the same awareness. It gives you confidence, sure, but do you REALLY know what you're going to do if and when you're seriously attacked? Probably not. There's no exact science.
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 29, 2011, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 11:55:39 PM
Main advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
It builds confidence, which shows on or off the field. This is a big one for me, considering I often walk home at night through the city after midnight. If you walk like a victim, you get treated like one. Walk like you'll kick a fucker's ass if he tries something, odds are they'll look for easier prey.
Fighting in the SCA, you build melee sense. You're more aware of what's going on around you, who's a threat, and what movement is happening.
But for someone like me, with almost 20 years of martial arts experience, the way we train in the SCA is kind of a fucking joke. I've told you all before. It's fun, it's exercise, but 90% of the time not practical.
I learned awareness of my situation growing up in a rough city. The way real people move on drugs or even on the adrenaline of wanting to attack you outside of a game or a sport is WAY different than you think. I can tell malicious intent by the way someone is looking at me, or moving toward me. On the battlefield, you don't move like that, you aren't out to kill, you're out to swishy poke and get a swig of water. Same thing with an Eastern style tournament. You're padded, you're just applying your techniques in a sport-like setting, and you have no idea how it would feel to side kick an unprotected rib or break a wrist for REAL outside of drills. (I have, and it's NOT PLEASANT. In fact, it's a bit nerve-wracking.)
Training in a sport does not give you the same awareness. It gives you confidence, sure, but do you REALLY know what you're going to do if and when you're seriously attacked? Probably not. There's no exact science.
Suu more or less hit the primary reason why I was looking at non-SCA WMA school. Of course if I were primarily interested in a self defence art, I would go back to Aikido, which despite it's stigma of being all soft and crap, can be brutal and hard in the right dojo (or so the blood stains in my gi seem to say).
And I looked into Caid's rapier handbook, there was no mention of the usage of feders in C&T, granted the most current version there on the kingdom marshal page was from 2007. On top of that, provided there were allowed in C&T you have to have a heavy rapier authorization for a year before authorizing for C&T.
In addition, Caid has the, presumably no longer experimental, unarmored combat from, but I ran afoul of the people who were starting it back in '04 over them being resistant to using a period resource as a guideline for weapon lengths. They quite literally would not give me an inch.
i read the second link as:
academy o' farms.
deary me.
Quote from: Donald Coyote on March 30, 2011, 01:02:44 AM
Quote from: Suu the Infallible on March 29, 2011, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: Luna on March 28, 2011, 11:55:39 PM
Main advantages? Exercise. Also, the mindset is useful. When I'm fencing, at least part of my brain is aware that if something goes terribly wrong, and we have an equipment failure and both go braindead at the same time, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Richter, Suu, or one of the others will be trying to figure out whether they should get the sword out of my fragile body or call the emergency line first. (Leave the sword, make the call, TYVM.)
It builds confidence, which shows on or off the field. This is a big one for me, considering I often walk home at night through the city after midnight. If you walk like a victim, you get treated like one. Walk like you'll kick a fucker's ass if he tries something, odds are they'll look for easier prey.
Fighting in the SCA, you build melee sense. You're more aware of what's going on around you, who's a threat, and what movement is happening.
But for someone like me, with almost 20 years of martial arts experience, the way we train in the SCA is kind of a fucking joke. I've told you all before. It's fun, it's exercise, but 90% of the time not practical.
I learned awareness of my situation growing up in a rough city. The way real people move on drugs or even on the adrenaline of wanting to attack you outside of a game or a sport is WAY different than you think. I can tell malicious intent by the way someone is looking at me, or moving toward me. On the battlefield, you don't move like that, you aren't out to kill, you're out to swishy poke and get a swig of water. Same thing with an Eastern style tournament. You're padded, you're just applying your techniques in a sport-like setting, and you have no idea how it would feel to side kick an unprotected rib or break a wrist for REAL outside of drills. (I have, and it's NOT PLEASANT. In fact, it's a bit nerve-wracking.)
Training in a sport does not give you the same awareness. It gives you confidence, sure, but do you REALLY know what you're going to do if and when you're seriously attacked? Probably not. There's no exact science.
Suu more or less hit the primary reason why I was looking at non-SCA WMA school. Of course if I were primarily interested in a self defence art, I would go back to Aikido, which despite it's stigma of being all soft and crap, can be brutal and hard in the right dojo (or so the blood stains in my gi seem to say).
And I looked into Caid's rapier handbook, there was no mention of the usage of feders in C&T, granted the most current version there on the kingdom marshal page was from 2007. On top of that, provided there were allowed in C&T you have to have a heavy rapier authorization for a year before authorizing for C&T.
In addition, Caid has the, presumably no longer experimental, unarmored combat from, but I ran afoul of the people who were starting it back in '04 over them being resistant to using a period resource as a guideline for weapon lengths. They quite literally would not give me an inch.
Things have changed A LOT since 2007. Especially in the East Kingdom. And if OUR sissy ass fencers can start playing with real swords, certainly the pansy Elizabethan fops in Caid can compete with our Imperial splendor.
-Suu
Occasionally also, a fop.
:lulz:
if only the main marshall for my home barony wasn't a douche, i would have asked if there is a more recent rapier handbook. cuz fuck if am going to do rapier for a year just to be able to play c&t when i want to. Silver is one my first hema loves.
When I used to do Medieval re-enactment, with authentic blunted Medieval weapons, (Broadsword & Buckler, Longsword, Daggers, Hammers, Longbows, and occasionally, Pikes) there was a real incentive to get as good as possible, because when we did a big display against other Societies, it was less about demonstrating the Art of Chivalrous Combat to the Public, and more about getting through a half hour 2-300 person melee, without breaking any (of your own) bones. Longbows (Our specialty) were up to 120lb pull, and rubber bung tipped arrows are quite capable of cracking ribs, even on three quarter strength pull. The opposing Army was usually made up from the Staffordshire Police Force, so there was added incentive right there. Those bastards took it way too seriously at times.