Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian? Would Jehova be somehow like the character who smashes the barstool at those pretensious bastards? I wonder... Maybe some of you are Christians? I'm a n00b.
And on the subject of Christianity; added bonus, reminding you of Marjoe Gortner (http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2007/02/365_days_35_mar.html). I think maybe he was or is a Disco rdian? Even in his childhood days. Because he admits later (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fSdI8ag1k0A) that he never believed in God. Which make him kind of Discordian, but not a Christian Discordian. Still he continued preaching, acting like the Elvis of faith healing (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6O0p4ZDnDoQ).
:lulz:
"Propane, propane,
time to start the flame,
Ricky ruined my fucking life, Julian,
so I just want a little
propane, propane,
propane, propane,
it's time to start the game..."
Most major world religions are tequila, Discorianism is like beer.
Basically Discordianism is the religion you drink from once you have had your fill of the major religions of the world.
I worship the Baby Jesus.
If I didn't he'd shoot off my kneecaps.
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Now, now, Roger, they're not ALL used as food.
Some of them, he crushes into powder and snorts.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Fuck yeah. And I'd do it again.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:43:55 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Fuck yeah. And I'd do it again.
If you want to be a real bastard you should go steal the price tag off her tomb stone.
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:44:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:43:55 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Fuck yeah. And I'd do it again.
If you want to be a real bastard you should go steal the price tag off her tomb stone.
HEY! I have a soul. It's just very small.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:49:25 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:44:56 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:43:55 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Fuck yeah. And I'd do it again.
If you want to be a real bastard you should go steal the price tag off her tomb stone.
HEY! I have a soul. It's just very small.
Well sell it and use the money to buy a crowbar, that price tag is attached to the tomb stone pretty damn good.
Thread got some WIN
Ask this guy (http://www.okcupid.com/profile?u=DeGuerre) how to be a christian discordian.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:43:55 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 07, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian?
As his food. Just like everyone else.
Which course are Discordians served as though?
We're the parsley on the side, that never gets eaten, and winds up in the garbage, slowly decomposing and...
...If Minnie Pearl could see into the darkness of my soul, she would DIE.
She's already dead, have you just admitted to killing Minnie Pearl?
Fuck yeah. And I'd do it again.
Good for Roger, that old bag was the Amerikan head of Illuminati.
In all honesty, you might be able to break it down this way:
Jesus was a rebellious upstart who turned Judaism on its head. Good start.
He said, "you are all gods" ----> Cf: "you are all pope".
He spoke in a lot of contradictions.
From there, you can get into the Gnostic stuff. You can usually find some weird shit there that will back up a Discordian mindset. Check out the Gospel of Judas. It claims that YHVH is actually a demented bloodthirsty demon, which pretty much lets you off the hook as far as the whole "Big Daddy" worship goes.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
Pretty much most religions can be combined with Discordianism, if you take a non-institutionalized view.
Sufism + Discordianism, for example, also works.
Welcome, btw
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Ricky ruined my fucking life, Julian,
I just like this quote. From The Trailerpark Boys right?
Quote from: LMNO on June 07, 2007, 01:09:46 PM
In all honesty, you might be able to break it down this way:
Jesus was a rebellious upstart who turned Judaism on its head. Good start.
He said, "you are all gods" ----> Cf: "you are all pope".
He spoke in a lot of contradictions.
From there, you can get into the Gnostic stuff. You can usually find some weird shit there that will back up a Discordian mindset. Check out the Gospel of Judas. It claims that YHVH is actually a demented bloodthirsty demon, which pretty much lets you off the hook as far as the whole "Big Daddy" worship goes.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
On the Christianity I grew up with, Discordianism wouldn't work at all. That "think for yourself, Schmuck!" schtick comes to a full and complete stop.
Gnosticism is not mainstream Xty. Quite the opposite. The furthering of arcane knowledge is a total antithesis to what Xty espouses to be.
I didn't see anthing in th OP about which kind of Christian he was referring to...
Well...gnostic Christians ARE somewhat thin on the ground. Your point is well-taken and it's often one used to well...support the notion you can be Xtian and ____________. Like Christopagan, for instance.
ETA: the use of calling God "Jehovah" in the OP is also interesting. It's more of an Old Testament referent.
True.
I was just Starbuck-ing my way through, seeing if I could align Xtianity & Eris.
I'm sure it can be done...bullshit holds the whole world together, as it were.
The Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfucker".
To speak his foul name is to bring his attention to yourself, and that is not a wise idea.
Quote from: bubzThe Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfucker".
That's a good point...and in point of fact, Christians often use Jehovah without any notion of and in complete ignorance of said fact...
N__H?
Quote from: Jenne on June 07, 2007, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: bubzThe Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfoocker".
That's a good point...and in point of fact, Christians often use Jehovah without any notion of and in complete ignorance of said fact...
I use Jehovah, purely for sex.
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
"Propane, propane,
time to start the flame,
Ricky ruined my fucking life, Julian,
so I just want a little
propane, propane,
propane, propane,
it's time to start the game..."
TPB quotes = win...
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on June 07, 2007, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on June 07, 2007, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: bubzThe Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfoocker".
That's a good point...and in point of fact, Christians often use Jehovah without any notion of and in complete ignorance of said fact...
I use Jehovah, purely for sex.
Careful...last chick who did that ended up on the back of a donkey and giving birth in some flea-infested haymound.
Quote from: Jenne on June 08, 2007, 01:50:35 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on June 07, 2007, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on June 07, 2007, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: bubzThe Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfoocker".
That's a good point...and in point of fact, Christians often use Jehovah without any notion of and in complete ignorance of said fact...
I use Jehovah, purely for sex.
Careful...last chick who did that ended up on the back of a donkey and giving birth in some flea-infested haymound.
Fine by me. Donkeys, Jehovah...I'll hit anything with a big butt.
:lulz: Duly noted...
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on June 08, 2007, 01:57:26 AM
Quote from: Jenne on June 08, 2007, 01:50:35 AM
Quote from: Deepthroat Chopra on June 07, 2007, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on June 07, 2007, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: bubzThe Judeo-Christian God is not called Jehovah. That is a misinterpretation of YHWH that goes back to the Crusades.
Years ago when I was in high school, a Jehovah's Witness interrupted my summer vacation to ask me why I thought no one called God by his name. I said I didn't know. Later I thought about it and realized that no one ever says shit like "You Jehovah damned motherfoocker".
That's a good point...and in point of fact, Christians often use Jehovah without any notion of and in complete ignorance of said fact...
I use Jehovah, purely for sex.
Careful...last chick who did that ended up on the back of a donkey and giving birth in some flea-infested haymound.
Fine by me. Donkeys, Jehovah...I'll hit anything with a big butt.
Even Mooseknuckle?
God was a single 3 letter word
Jesus was a blonde white guy who died a virgin and came back to life.
Most of the disciples were english and named after the beatles.
Jesus lived and grew up in a town that wasn't built until a couple of hundred years after he died.
Everyone who knew him spoke a mixture of greek and latin.
It's your fault he died so be thankful for it.
What's so hard to believe about that you fucking heathens?
:mittens:
well, there's the easy way to tie them together.
i don't like it, so i won't mention it.
i'm a methodist, by the way. METHODIST.
and an LDS (Logos Discordia Snark)
by the way, has anyone called you a noob in the last five seconds?
they should. these kinds of questions suck ass. find a way to see if
it works before asking the question.
thanks for a jizz rag to vent my hate though.
Paganism and Discordianism work well together-
just pick your Gods like you pick the parsley of your plate
and build small mounds with it
and stab it with your knife
somehow this message got somehow distorted,
just ignore it, don't read it from the top.
Christianity has always had a Discordian theme as most religions. the commonly accepted definition of Discordianism is recent, measured in decades in fact. But the basic concept is ancient, we have good old Eris which comes from the Greek pantheon and we have Loki from the Nordic pantheon.
From the Christian persepctive, no matter how often the hardline Catholics put down 'heresy' you had movements springing up that had the same basic theme but bucked the 'party line'. The basic tenets of Christian belief are not incompatible with Discordianism, sure it can be used as a tool by the greyfaces/man/system/whatever, but so can anything really, it all depends on perspective.
Indeed, from a certain point of view, taking into account all the inconsistincies, contradictions and subtle irony, the Bible itself could be seen as a Discordian text, just none of the fundies seem to get the joke.
Quote from: Wolfpoet on July 08, 2007, 11:50:37 PM
Christianity has always had a Discordian theme as most religions. the commonly accepted definition of Discordianism is recent, measured in decades in fact. But the basic concept is ancient, we have good old Eris which comes from the Greek pantheon and we have Loki from the Nordic pantheon.
From the Christian persepctive, no matter how often the hardline Catholics put down 'heresy' you had movements springing up that had the same basic theme but bucked the 'party line'. The basic tenets of Christian belief are not incompatible with Discordianism, sure it can be used as a tool by the greyfaces/man/system/whatever, but so can anything really, it all depends on perspective.
Indeed, from a certain point of view, taking into account all the inconsistincies, contradictions and subtle irony, the Bible itself could be seen as a Discordian text, just none of the fundies seem to get the joke.
DISCORDIANISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOKI OR ANY OF YOUR OTHER FUCKED UP VARGR BELIEFS.
SO JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Quote from: Wolfpoet on July 08, 2007, 11:50:37 PMChristianity has always had a Discordian theme as most religions. the commonly accepted definition of Discordianism is recent, measured in decades in fact. But the basic concept is ancient, we have good old Eris which comes from the Greek pantheon and we have Loki from the Nordic pantheon.
From the Christian persepctive, no matter how often the hardline Catholics put down 'heresy' you had movements springing up that had the same basic theme but bucked the 'party line'. The basic tenets of Christian belief are not incompatible with Discordianism, sure it can be used as a tool by the greyfaces/man/system/whatever, but so can anything really, it all depends on perspective.
Indeed, from a certain point of view, taking into account all the inconsistincies, contradictions and subtle irony, the Bible itself could be seen as a Discordian text, just none of the fundies seem to get the joke.
"Raggi" ?
\
(http://www.houseofthemes.com/Scooby%20Doo.jpg)
:lulz:
That never gets old.
:lulz:
I nearly die of laughter when I see that one.
:lulz:
this most recent idiocy reminds me of a wiccan once telling me that Christ was a devout wiccan and went on to "prove" it...
When it was all over, I couldn't even laugh. I just felt sorry for him, bummed a cigarette, and walked away wondering how long it would be before he took his own life.
maybe you should have helped him with that last part?
Quote from: Mourning Star on July 09, 2007, 11:09:34 AM
this most recent idiocy reminds me of a wiccan once telling me that Christ was a devout wiccan and went on to "prove" it...
When it was all over, I couldn't even laugh.
i can't help but actually being curious to the details of that "proof"
did it involve time machines?
Quote from: triple zero on July 09, 2007, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: Mourning Star on July 09, 2007, 11:09:34 AM
this most recent idiocy reminds me of a wiccan once telling me that Christ was a devout wiccan and went on to "prove" it...
When it was all over, I couldn't even laugh.
i can't help but actually being curious to the details of that "proof"
did it involve time machines?
no
I'll detail it if you'd really like...
actually...i'd like.
seeing as Jesus has been portrayed as being just about every last thing under the sun, there's no reason why we can't add 'wiccan' to the ever growing list of retared titles, epithets and job descriptions.
I doubt Jesus would be a Discordian
but LOLJesus - definitley
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 09, 2007, 07:03:07 PM
I doubt Jesus would be a Discordian
but LOLJesus - definitley
i went to church of england schools. their version of christ is pretty much LOLJesus.
my friend's wedding was conducted by a woman vicar. my friend and his wife had designed some of their wedding wear based on the 'bram stoker's dracula' movie and the vicar herself used the wedding feast story from the bible in a manner that made me think jesus turned water into wine just to get his buddies drunk.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on July 09, 2007, 07:03:07 PM
I doubt Jesus would be a Discordian
but LOLJesus - definitley
He was nailed to a tree for upsetting the established social order. The only think that might keep him from being Discordian is that he wasn't lazy enough.
Quote from: Mangrove on July 09, 2007, 06:01:50 PM
actually...i'd like.
seeing as Jesus has been portrayed as being just about every last thing under the sun, there's no reason why we can't add 'wiccan' to the ever growing list of retared titles, epithets and job descriptions.
Jesus was a mushroom.
Best theory ever.
Jesus did mushrooms. Betterest theory ever.
I think you misunderstand the Jesus is a Mushroom theory...
Being a mushroom > doing mushrooms.
body of christ?
pentecost?
:-)
Jesus was the original hippie who pulled the greatest O:MF ever, 2000 years later and it's still worknig.
Or it could be the whole idea was a brainchild of a bunch just like us designed to fuck up society.
It's probly just something I dreamed up, just like everything else in this world. Srsly.
Quote from: Benaclypse on July 15, 2007, 12:19:34 AM
It's probly just something I dreamed up, just like everything else in this world. Srsly.
Spoken like someone in need of a close encounter with a barstool. Or is it just me?
Avatar
being a mushroom = doing mushrooms
Quote from: avatar on July 15, 2007, 06:51:41 AM
Quote from: Benaclypse on July 15, 2007, 12:19:34 AM
It's probly just something I dreamed up, just like everything else in this world. Srsly.
Spoken like someone in need of a close encounter with a barstool. Or is it just me?
Avatar
It's just you, shit twat.
Quote from: Benaclypse on July 15, 2007, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: avatar on July 15, 2007, 06:51:41 AM
Quote from: Benaclypse on July 15, 2007, 12:19:34 AM
It's probly just something I dreamed up, just like everything else in this world. Srsly.
Spoken like someone in need of a close encounter with a barstool. Or is it just me?
Avatar
It's just you, shit twat.
Your witty response does little to convince me otherwise... :barstool:
Avatar
My mamma always said
mushrooms is as mushrooms does
\
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/bruceleez4073/Forrest-Gump.jpg)
I have a friend who recently converted to Catholicism and joined the Freemasons (some bad blood there). He did this because he is a sick and twisted bastard. I'm envious.
He does everything expected of him in both groups. He stays late to chat with the Priest, he debates theology with the parishioners.... and he hurts them in their head.
You know what the face of a 21st century priest looks like when a new convert bemoans the loss of the Inquisition? I don't, but my friend Eric does. Want to know what a parishioner does when the new convert says "Well, its your soul" after you miss church? Ask, Eric... he knows.
As for wehat he's doing to the Masons, he won't tell me. All he does is grin.
If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will. He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good will in his soul and love in his being.
Good will? :lulz:
Quote from: Ratatosk on July 16, 2007, 08:18:46 PM
I have a friend who recently converted to Catholicism and joined the Freemasons (some bad blood there). He did this because he is a sick and twisted bastard. I'm envious.
He does everything expected of him in both groups. He stays late to chat with the Priest, he debates theology with the parishioners.... and he hurts them in their head.
You know what the face of a 21st century priest looks like when a new convert bemoans the loss of the Inquisition? I don't, but my friend Eric does. Want to know what a parishioner does when the new convert says "Well, its your soul" after you miss church? Ask, Eric... he knows.
As for wehat he's doing to the Masons, he won't tell me. All he does is grin.
I do not understand. I am a Catholic and a Discordian (I think), and a member of the American Legion, Marine Corps League, Knights of Columbus, Marine Association, and Moose International. They are all the same thing. Except for the hats. I joined the Knights for the hats. And swords.
I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
Mostly because I don't care about the church. And I don't really care if God exists.
I'm mostly in it for the lulz.
Did I mention I say the Virgin Mary at the 7-11 the other day? She was getting a Big-Gulp. And my God, she had the biggest forearms.
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:13:54 AM
I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
How would you know?
QuoteMostly because I don't care about the church.
I did not know that being a Christian was about caring about the Church.
QuoteAnd I don't really care if God exists.
I'm pretty sure that does not affect the outcome. But maybe it does.
QuoteI'm mostly in it for the lulz.
So are they, I hear.
QuoteDid I mention I say the Virgin Mary at the 7-11 the other day? She was getting a Big-Gulp. And my God, she had the biggest forearms.
I do not believe in 7-11 convenience stores. Well, they might exist, but you can't prove it by me.
I stopped believing in the postman for a while. Didn't stop the fuckin mail being delivered.
Postage, gravity and 7-11s are irresistable forces of nature, whether you believe in them or not.
Holy epiphanies ITT.
Quote from: Payne on August 02, 2007, 03:31:28 AM
I stopped believing in the postman for a while. Didn't stop the fuckin mail being delivered.
Well, that's your story, but I'd like to interview the mail.
QuotePostage, gravity and 7-11s are irresistable forces of nature, whether you believe in them or not.
I have been resisting gravity for 46 years. I suspect it will eventually win, but I refuse to succumb to the horrors of postage. I have been weighed, measured, and returned for postage due. 7-11s will take care of themselves if they do indeed exist.
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:51:34 AM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 03:28:06 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:13:54 AM
I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
How would you know?
I let my lesbian Wicca Cabal decide for me.
You *have* a lesbian Wicca Cabal? And you didn't share? Sad is the world.
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 04:10:53 AM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:51:34 AM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 03:28:06 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:13:54 AM
I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
How would you know?
I let my lesbian Wicca Cabal decide for me.
You *have* a lesbian Wicca Cabal? And you didn't share? Sad is the world.
Eh. It's more of a rental deal.
I can see I have much to learn. I am humbled.
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 04:23:50 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 04:10:53 AM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 03:54:55 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:51:34 AM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 03:28:06 AM
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:13:54 AM
I'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
How would you know?
I let my lesbian Wicca Cabal decide for me.
You *have* a lesbian Wicca Cabal? And you didn't share? Sad is the world.
Eh. It's more of a rental deal.
I can see I have much to learn. I am humbled.
lol.
Conversating with yoarself FTL
I call alt.
ALT!
\\
(http://www.umpirejoewest.com/JoeWestBluea.JPEG)
but i'm not putting money on it yet
Quote from: keeper entropic on August 02, 2007, 05:46:34 AM
ALT!
\\
(http://www.umpirejoewest.com/JoeWestBluea.JPEG)
but i'm not putting money on it yet
I may stand corrected
Lys (I think) found this earlier
http://www.wigwamjones.com/
maybe this guy's legit?
"Too legit to quit!"
/
:hammer:
What, you expect me to read the entire thread before responding?
Am I causing a controversy? On one level, that sounds like fun. On another, perhaps not the best way to make an entrance.
Nah, not really.
Well, not as far as I'm concerned, and since I'm 99% certain most of you are either rogue bots who have achieved self-awareness or FBI agents, only my opinion really matters.
Quote from: Cain on August 02, 2007, 12:56:27 PM
Nah, not really.
Well, not as far as I'm concerned, and since I'm 99% certain most of you are either rogue bots who have achieved self-awareness or FBI agents, only my opinion really matters.
If I am a rogue bot, I am astounded at the size pants I require. Actually, the same statement would be true if I were an FBI agent.
Perhaps I work for the Department of Homeland Security, then. Or the Lumber Cartel (TINC).
Don't mind the troops. It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars. You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.
It's also been a bit slow around here as of late. We're just itching for some action. any action really.
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 01:58:43 PM
Don't mind the troops. It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars. You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.
I take no offense at the poking and prodding. I don't act like the standard n00b, which is always confusing, I know. I usually whack things like me with a stick. Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 02:12:30 PM
Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.
:eek:
I suppose that's one method of birth control... I like it!
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 02:12:30 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 01:58:43 PM
Don't mind the troops. It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars. You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.
I take no offense at the poking and prodding. I don't act like the standard n00b, which is always confusing, I know. I usually whack things like me with a stick. Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.
why?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 02:12:30 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 01:58:43 PM
Don't mind the troops. It's just that around here, internet lifeforms like bots and alts have more personality than the regulars. You're kinda weird, which logically demands that you can't actually be a human being.
I take no offense at the poking and prodding. I don't act like the standard n00b, which is always confusing, I know. I usually whack things like me with a stick. Fortunately, I am wearing asbestos y-fronts.
why?
No, "Y." Wearing 'why-fronts' would be very interesting, though.
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
Outlandish beats boring!
-DC
Tired of removing a dude's pants only to discover he is wearing boring, solid boxers. Talk about killing the mood!
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 02, 2007, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
Outlandish beats boring!
-DC
Tired of removing a dude's pants only to discover he is wearing boring, solid boxers. Talk about killing the mood!
Maybe someday you pull down pants to discover dude is a girl
BIG SURPRISE!
Quote from: Mourning Star on August 02, 2007, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 02, 2007, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
Outlandish beats boring!
-DC
Tired of removing a dude's pants only to discover he is wearing boring, solid boxers. Talk about killing the mood!
Maybe someday you pull down pants to discover dude is a girl
BIG SURPRISE!
Remember: Pics or it didn't happen.
Quote from: Lysergic on August 02, 2007, 03:50:08 PM
Quote from: Mourning Star on August 02, 2007, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 02, 2007, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on August 02, 2007, 03:11:24 PM
That's easy. Just go to your local department store and buy the most outlandish pair of boxers you can. You wife will be asking why on a regular basis.
Outlandish beats boring!
-DC
Tired of removing a dude's pants only to discover he is wearing boring, solid boxers. Talk about killing the mood!
Maybe someday you pull down pants to discover dude is a girl
BIG SURPRISE!
Remember: Pics or it didn't happen.
HAI FIVE!
Quote from: Pope Naughty Nasturtiums on August 02, 2007, 03:13:54 AMI'm a Christian.
But I suspect I'm not very good at it. :sad:
Mostly because I don't care about the church. And I don't really care if God exists.
I'm mostly in it for the lulz.
QuoteI did not know that being a Christian was about caring about the Church.
as far as i know, being "a christian" in the vaguest sense of the word means you gotta believe that jesus christ is the son of god and died for your sins. believing his death was done by crucifixion is, while the most widely accepted, i'm not sure if it's strictly mandatory.
apart from that, you can make up whatever you want and go with it.
it's what all the schisms, fractions, factions etc do as well. beware of the more orthodox fundamentalists, they may get angry if you believe it the wrong way (but really, there's no pleasing
anyone)
if you're going to be discordian, you are required to think for yourself schmuck, and thereby discover that the whole jesus story is a load of crap. fortunately, due to your newly discovered discordian powerz you can still continue to believe in loads of crap (it's just not always the smart thing to do). you are, however, strictly forbidden from taking it seriously anymore.
Quote from: triple zero on August 02, 2007, 03:57:17 PM
if you're going to be discordian, you are required to think for yourself schmuck, and thereby discover that the whole jesus story is a load of crap.
objection, your honor! Discordian thought does not require that you arrive at this conclusion.
Christians believe in, and worship Christ
Discordians "believe" in and "worship" Eris, but there are tons of Discordians that don't. And their version of "belief" and "worship" is often significantly different from Xtians.
I guess the question is whether one is a Christian Discordian or a Discordian Christian. I see these as two entirely distinct though illusory monsters. Both totally irrelevant, because I've recently discovered the truth and the light and the way:
Dog Rapism.
Fuck all this discordian and Christian and Catholic and religious dog raping.
I'm a zenarchist. I'm going to blow up the state of mind!
uhm
i mean in the way that there's no historical proof of jesus, that the whole resurrection and water-into-wine and other miracles can't possibly have really happened, etc. the usual conclusions you draw about fairytales when you take a step back and think about it, really.
if you're gonna be both, be both. now, discordianism allows for multiple paradigms, so that's good. our basic minimalist christianity just asks for belief in the above mentioned fairytale.
which leads me to the conclusion that the max you can do, is to be a discordian/part-time christian. because full-time belief in the fairytale will interfere with clear thinking.
now
QuoteDiscordians "believe" in and "worship" Eris, but there are tons of Discordians that don't. And their version of "belief" and "worship" is often significantly different from Xtians.
first, i think that's erisians. but blah semantics never mind. second, how is this relevant? (because their belief and worship is different, that it really doesn't matter in this context)
QuoteI guess the question is whether one is a Christian Discordian or a Discordian Christian. I see these as two entirely distinct though illusory monsters.
um, am i supposed to intuitively understand the subtle difference in meaning due to the juxtaposition of these words?
(hm i used the word "juxtaposition", but it made the sentence look like a trainwreck, still. SO MUCH FOR LITERACY)
Quote from: triple zero on August 02, 2007, 03:57:17 PMas far as i know, being "a christian" in the vaguest sense of the word means you gotta believe that jesus christ is the son of god and died for your sins. believing his death was done by crucifixion is, while the most widely accepted, i'm not sure if it's strictly mandatory.
That's pretty close, in my experience. A minor fix-up from my point of view would be:
1) Accepts that Jesus is the the Son of God, or Christ.
2) Believes that He was Crucified for your sins.
3) Accepts Jesus as your personal Savior.
There's a lot of other stuff, depending on which flavor of Christianity we're talking about, but a lot of that is dogma rather than Scriptural.
Quote
apart from that, you can make up whatever you want and go with it.
People do.
Quote
it's what all the schisms, fractions, factions etc do as well. beware of the more orthodox fundamentalists, they may get angry if you believe it the wrong way (but really, there's no pleasing anyone)
You'd be surprised about how laid-back the Jesuits are, but in general your point is quite valid.
Quote
if you're going to be discordian, you are required to think for yourself schmuck, and thereby discover that the whole jesus story is a load of crap. fortunately, due to your newly discovered discordian powerz you can still continue to believe in loads of crap (it's just not always the smart thing to do). you are, however, strictly forbidden from taking it seriously anymore.
Actually, you can take it as seriously as you wish. But you must recognize the validity of every other chamber you hold within your mind, too. Bringing conflicting belief systems into close proximity to each other inside your noggin without your brain melting down is one of the tests of a Holy Infidel. Like forcing two magnets together the 'wrong way' or licking a 9-volt battery. Zowie.
Quote from: triple zero on August 02, 2007, 04:15:37 PM
QuoteI guess the question is whether one is a Christian Discordian or a Discordian Christian. I see these as two entirely distinct though illusory monsters.
um, am i supposed to intuitively understand the subtle difference in meaning due to the juxtaposition of these words?
(hm i used the word "juxtaposition", but it made the sentence look like a trainwreck, still. SO MUCH FOR LITERACY)
This might be one of those linguistic things. I don't know how Dutch works, but I know shuffling around adjectives like that in French doesn't change the meaning at all. In fact, it might even make it incorrect and thus more confusing.
But I THINK what Cram is getting at is:
Christian Discordian: someone who is primarily Discordian, but with attributes of the Christian. I am not sure how that works, but I'm going to run with it for the moment.
Discordian Christian: A Christian, but with Discordian leanings, such as perhaps believing in Jesus/the crucifixion, etc, but also believing in the ideas of chaos, mindfucking, etc.
Did that clarify at all? My brain isn't working quite right just now (need moar coffee and less high heels) but I think that got the basic idea down. Perhaps someone else can help expand a little?
I also admit that my post may have been irrelevant or tangled, perhaps as a result of coffee deficiency which I am now remedying. I do think we're in agreement on most of this.
Quotei mean in the way that there's no historical proof of jesus, that the whole resurrection and water-into-wine and other miracles can't possibly have really happened, etc. the usual conclusions you draw about fairytales when you take a step back and think about it, really.
yeah, but you're arriving at that conclusion using rational scientific thought, which is not necessary to Discordians.
And as a tangent, I personally don't think that religion is about finding out what "really" happened in ancient times new roman. If you don't believe that Jesus had magical powers and actually came back to life after being brutally executed, it has little bearing on being a good Christian or taking Christ's message seriously.
D-cup quite nicely clarified what I meant by the Discordian Christian / Christian Discordian line. I probably could have explained that better, and yes in hindsight it doesn't seem relevant. :p
Beliefs are like any other thought. They are just commands you enter into your brain that result in it releasing some combination of chemicals you want to feel at a given moment. You can believe whatever you want. Putting limits on belief is like making psychedelics illegal, which just an incredibly prickish thing to do.
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: triple zero on August 02, 2007, 03:57:17 PMas far as i know, being "a christian" in the vaguest sense of the word means you gotta believe that jesus christ is the son of god and died for your sins. believing his death was done by crucifixion is, while the most widely accepted, i'm not sure if it's strictly mandatory.
That's pretty close, in my experience. A minor fix-up from my point of view would be:
1) Accepts that Jesus is the the Son of God, or Christ.
2) Believes that He was Crucified for your sins.
3) Accepts Jesus as your personal Savior.
yeah, that's basically what i was trying to say.
QuoteYou'd be surprised about how laid-back the Jesuits are, but in general your point is quite valid.
okay
one of my best friends is a jehova witness, there's good people everywhere :)
either way, i was refering to "orthodox fundamentalist" as being defined by, what i would informally like to call "not being laid-back about it"
QuoteActually, you can take it as seriously as you wish. But you must recognize the validity of every other chamber you hold within your mind, too. Bringing conflicting belief systems into close proximity to each other inside your noggin without your brain melting down is one of the tests of a Holy Infidel. Like forcing two magnets together the 'wrong way' or licking a 9-volt battery. Zowie.
well yeah. all that are your options :)
the main point i was trying to make is that you can't simply be both and go easy about it. like "oh yeah no those christian morals, ten commandments have kind of a good point to it, but i'm also like zany and chaotic and i like fun and i was born on the 23rd so i'm also discordian yay"
and then still, either way, personally, i think there's seriously some better and more interesting and useful religions, world-views, philosophies, spiritualities and moral-ethical systems you can invest your time in to read about and try out to see if they fit for a while other than christianity. because you get a large enough dose of christianity anyway for simply living in western society. but, this is really my personal opinion.
and to D-Cup: (same in dutch. though some adjective orders sound more pretty than others)
I figured it would be a kind of primary/secondary thing, and no matter which way around which one is (we'll never get that straight anyway), it's actually the general point cram was trying to make about it that i was wondering about.
because IMO, if you want to get two religions at the same time, and call yourself both, you're lucky if there's even one way to fit them together. ah but you're probably going to be frowned upon by both as well :)
to Cram: aaah you guys keep posting i keep "you may wish to review your post" .. both of youse! go get yourself a nice strong hot cup of black coffee PRONTO ! ;-)
> yeah, but you're arriving at that conclusion using rational scientific thought, which is not
> necessary to Discordians.
it isn't? i thought it was about being able to hold up your viewpoints against the worst intense kinds of scrutiny and somehow still manage to have them crawl out semi-alive. hardcore thinking, that is.
please don't bring the science thing in this discussion. science and religion or spirituality need not be opposed. and if they are, blame the religion.
cause if you strip "science", you end up with "you're arriving at that conclusion using rational thought" which
is necessary for a discordian (IMO)
(cause really, there isn't much science involved to see that the fairytale has been largely made up, and just a bit of rational thought alone will do nicely)
now if you strip that part of the bullshit off, you end up with a lean kind of "christ archetype" sort of thing, the kind that is so well described in the sixth sephirot on the tree of life, Tiphereth.
but when you get down to that, you'll end up with a threefold combination of "son of god", "sacrificed god" and "lord over man", from which you can draw all sorts of very useful spiritual whatnots (soul food) and wise lessons and etc etc, just about the same amount as you can possibly wholesomely get from basic minimialist christianity, with the exception that it does not require you to believe in the physical incarnation of this threefold personality somewhere about 2000 years ago.
pff
this stuff is more complicated than i thought.
vex: ANOTHER NEW REPLY too bad i'm just gonna hit post now.
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 02, 2007, 04:20:19 PM
Discordian Christian: A Christian, but with Discordian leanings, such as perhaps believing in Jesus/the crucifixion, etc, but also believing in the ideas of chaos, mindfucking, etc.
Did that clarify at all? My brain isn't working quite right just now (need moar coffee and less high heels) but I think that got the basic idea down. Perhaps someone else can help expand a little?
You are driving the correct motorcycle here. And I know one of these IRL.
I like to visualize religious belief systems like acetate overlays on a photograph of oneself.
You can have more than one overlay, and you can draw things on each one. Each can add to or cancel out what is on the overlay(s) underneath.
If you keep adding overlays, eventually they obscure the original photograph.
But each overlay is valid unto itself, and beyond contestation, taken as the layer it exists upon and ignoring what may lay on top of it or has yet to be added.
Quote from: triple zero on August 02, 2007, 04:40:14 PM
because IMO, if you want to get two religions at the same time, and call yourself both, you're lucky if there's even one way to fit them together. ah but you're probably going to be frowned upon by both as well :)
Yeah, I think that's very valid. I run into this problem a lot with philosophies, and also literary criticisms (yes, seriously, sometimes I cannot sleep at night because I am debating the best approach to literary criticism. STFU!). I feel like there are many valid ways of approaching the world (or literature!) out there. There can be multiple ways that are effective/functional/however-you-want-to-call-it. However, which is The Best is a pretty subjective thing. No one is necessarily better than another. But then we run into the conundrum of trying to reconcile approaches that may be bordering on mutually exclusive. As you've covered, in order to make Christianity and Discordianism fit together... Well, you're not. It's the whole round peg in a square hole thing. You have to make alterations to them to make it work well. But once you start altering one or the other, the shape is changed, and you're no longer talking about what you started with. So where does that leave you?
I like to think with possibilities. I like to think that I can take things I like (whether it's religion, philosophy, or literary criticism) and kind of mash and reshape until I get something that works for me. At what point, however, has my mashing and reshaping changed what I'm working with so much that it's become pointless because I've really pretty definitively lost what I started out with?
As a side note: Wigwam--Damn. I like that metaphor. That's nicely put.
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 02, 2007, 04:16:34 PM
That's pretty close, in my experience. A minor fix-up from my point of view would be:
1) Accepts that Jesus is the the Son of God, or Christ.
2) Believes that He was Crucified for your sins.
3) Accepts Jesus as your personal Savior.
And to ensure that his death wasn't in vain all good Christians should sin as much as possible.
Quote from: PopeTom on August 02, 2007, 09:57:35 PMAnd to ensure that his death wasn't in vain all good Christians should sin as much as possible.
That has not been a problem.
AGAIN
there is nothing about Discordianism that would prevent you from being a Christian. If anything, Discordianism could be said to encourage you to be a Christian, in that it loves it when people get fooled, especially when they fool themselves.
On the other hand, you're probably being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think Christianity allows you to be a Discordian. I am among those who say if you're going to believe something, believe it. Even if half of it's crap, and God knows at least half of Christianity is crap. But its scriptures and doctrine are at least mature, and it's fairly obvious that it's an exclusive religion. If you're going to believe half of it and toss the rest out, what's the point? If you're in it at all you might as well be in it completely.
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 10:21:56 PM
AGAIN
there is nothing about Discordianism that would prevent you from being a Christian. If anything, Discordianism could be said to encourage you to be a Christian, in that it loves it when people get fooled, especially when they fool themselves.
I hate to be disagreeable on a such a lovely day, but I have to take issue with your statement. One cannot be fooling themselves with the same mind which is a Christian - or they would know themselves not to be Christian. To be it, one must believe it - utterly. Whether there is a subjective reality that sees Christianity as 'fooling oneself' is moot.
Quote
On the other hand, you're probably being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think Christianity allows you to be a Discordian.
Christianity does not allow it. I allow myself. The mind I own which is a Christian is not the mind I own which is a Discordian, but I own both minds. As an example, I have two hands. One hand may well have a rule which forbids me to hold certain things - but it cannot control or know what I hold with the other hand, or vice-versa. I control both hands.
Quote
I am among those who say if you're going to believe something, believe it. Even if half of it's crap, and God knows at least half of Christianity is crap. But its scriptures and doctrine are at least mature, and it's fairly obvious that it's an exclusive religion. If you're going to believe half of it and toss the rest out, what's the point? If you're in it at all you might as well be in it completely.
Anyone who can grok the concept of 'true in some sense,' etc, can grok the concept of simultaneously embracing two mutually-exclusive belief systems and holding both to be completely and absolutely true. Not 'theoretically true' but 'actually' true.
There is no part of me that does not believe in the entire Christian/Catholic system when I receive Holy Communion. And still I can say yes, it is most likely all BS. I believe/don't believe/am agnostic about pretty much everything. But I do them all whole-heartedly, as you recommend.
At least you're thoroughly self-contradictory.
I am particularly biased against the Christian faith, and not just because I read too much Nietzche in my formative years. It is hard for me to follow a logic, even if it is thinking-outside-the-box logic, that allows you to be both an enlightened believer in meta-abstractions and a singleminded Christian simpleton, when Christianity requires, really, that any part of your consciousness which you control must be necessity be fully devoted to Christianity. By the honest rules of Christianity, ultimately you fail because you are capable of and indulgent in not believing it.
I'm not saying you don't believe it, though. I'm saying that Christianity is incompatible with larger belief systems that incorporate it as only one choice among many.
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 10:21:56 PM
AGAIN
there is nothing about Discordianism that would prevent you from being a Christian. If anything, Discordianism could be said to encourage you to be a Christian, in that it loves it when people get fooled, especially when they fool themselves.
On the other hand, you're probably being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think Christianity allows you to be a Discordian. I am among those who say if you're going to believe something, believe it. Even if half of it's crap, and God knows at least half of Christianity is crap. But its scriptures and doctrine are at least mature, and it's fairly obvious that it's an exclusive religion. If you're going to believe half of it and toss the rest out, what's the point? If you're in it at all you might as well be in it completely.
FUCK YOU FASCIST! I WORSHIP GOD, JESUS, OSIRIS, TAMMUZ AND HERA AND YOU HURT MY FEELINGS!
Quote from: Cain on August 02, 2007, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 10:21:56 PM
AGAIN
there is nothing about Discordianism that would prevent you from being a Christian. If anything, Discordianism could be said to encourage you to be a Christian, in that it loves it when people get fooled, especially when they fool themselves.
On the other hand, you're probably being intellectually dishonest with yourself if you think Christianity allows you to be a Discordian. I am among those who say if you're going to believe something, believe it. Even if half of it's crap, and God knows at least half of Christianity is crap. But its scriptures and doctrine are at least mature, and it's fairly obvious that it's an exclusive religion. If you're going to believe half of it and toss the rest out, what's the point? If you're in it at all you might as well be in it completely.
FUCK YOU FASCIST! I WORSHIP GOD, JESUS, OSIRIS, TAMMUZ AND HERA AND YOU HURT MY FEELINGS!
God : metaconcept indicative of an entire culture's unimaginitveness
Jesus: bad copy of Osiris.
Osiris: Egyptian and therefore disqualified.
Tammuz: Early incarnation of Alberto Gonzales. Not intended for mass consumption.
Hera: Will kick your ass for listing her last, and that's a fact.
Quote from: vexati0n on August 02, 2007, 10:55:36 PM
At least you're thoroughly self-contradictory.
Well, I do my best. :wink:
QuoteI am particularly biased against the Christian faith, and not just because I read too much Nietzche in my formative years.
I think we can find an instructive statement above. In James, we find a concept of an 'overbelief' that is part of a meta-framework. Absent the meta-framework, the overbelief cannot find purchase. You cannot imagine that which you cannot imagine. This is no indictment of you - I would find myself similarly unable to hold an overbelief in which I experienced Hinduism as a legitimate meta-framework. That's just not my scene, man.
Quote
It is hard for me to follow a logic, even if it is thinking-outside-the-box logic, that allows you to be both an enlightened believer in meta-abstractions and a singleminded Christian simpleton, when Christianity requires, really, that any part of your consciousness which you control must be necessity be fully devoted to Christianity. By the honest rules of Christianity, ultimately you fail because you are capable of and indulgent in not believing it.
Again, the missing meta-framework fills in blanks in your grok with emotionally-charged words that others might object to (I do not). To swim, you must get wet. There is nothing else for it. To be a Christian is to NOT feel that one is a simpleton, but rather that one is both wise and brave; wise for seeing the choice of Salvation and brave for choosing it with one's own Free Will when all senses scream to never give over control. You miss the 'honest rules' of Christianity because it is the fact that you 'are capable of' not believing that makes one's choice important. If one had no choice in the matter, Christianity would seem hollow indeed.
In any case, to more directly answer your point about 'thinking outside the box', it is merely myself that imagines that there is a box to be outside of. The Church and all the universe it contains appears to live happily within that box, which of course can be infinitely large and infinitely lengthy, unlike the box which contains it. It has no conception of the box, and as such, it has no objection to any time I spend away from it.
Quote
I'm not saying you don't believe it, though. I'm saying that Christianity is incompatible with larger belief systems that incorporate it as only one choice among many.
Very few gears are aware of their place in the machine, in my experience.
eh. that's what i get for being raised by fundamentalists, i guess.
Quote from: Wigwam Jones on August 03, 2007, 01:35:40 AM
Very few gears are aware of their place in the machine, in my experience.
The hatelove of TGRR be on you.
I never had a problem with Christianity per se, despite reading Nietzsche. If you read Kaufmann's notes to his translation of Thus Spake Zarathustra, you can see he has actually incoporated many elements of Christian thought into an entirely new framework. It just so happens much of this was and continues to be ignored by modern Christianity and is more prevalent in the mystical and gnostic interpretations.
I went to a CoE primary school, where they pressed us fairly hard to believe in Christianity, unless we were definitely of another faith already (yeah, I know, at primary school no less). Hour of prayers and hymns every day, church once a week etc. Even that didn't bother me too much, though I am pretty opposed to religious indoctrination so early on in a child's life.
The main thing that bothers me is that there are rougly 2 billion Christians on the planet, IIRC. Either way, it holds the pluarlity of believers and is only rivalled by Islam, at roughly 1 billion adherents. That it is the major religious belief of people on the planet is a problem, especially when it means they will act slavishly around evil leaders who make an act of being pious (not all do. I am quite fond of Liberation Theology, for example. But it is usually the exception, not the rule).
If Islam tomorrow were to become the main religious belief of the planet, chances are it would be maligned in the same way. Same for Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism or Discordianism. The damage that would be wrought in the name of the top religion would provoke a backlash, probably in the name of one of the lesser ones. IOW, business as usual on Terran.
Quote from: Cain on August 04, 2007, 02:12:26 PM
I never had a problem with Christianity per se, despite reading Nietzsche. If you read Kaufmann's notes to his translation of Thus Spake Zarathustra, you can see he has actually incoporated many elements of Christian thought into an entirely new framework. It just so happens much of this was and continues to be ignored by modern Christianity and is more prevalent in the mystical and gnostic interpretations.
I went to a CoE primary school, where they pressed us fairly hard to believe in Christianity, unless we were definitely of another faith already (yeah, I know, at primary school no less). Hour of prayers and hymns every day, church once a week etc. Even that didn't bother me too much, though I am pretty opposed to religious indoctrination so early on in a child's life.
The main thing that bothers me is that there are rougly 2 billion Christians on the planet, IIRC. Either way, it holds the pluarlity of believers and is only rivalled by Islam, at roughly 1 billion adherents. That it is the major religious belief of people on the planet is a problem, especially when it means they will act slavishly around evil leaders who make an act of being pious (not all do. I am quite fond of Liberation Theology, for example. But it is usually the exception, not the rule).
If Islam tomorrow were to become the main religious belief of the planet, chances are it would be maligned in the same way. Same for Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism or Discordianism. The damage that would be wrought in the name of the top religion would provoke a backlash, probably in the name of one of the lesser ones. IOW, business as usual on Terran.
:mittens:
For The Win.
I personally don't like the metaphors associated with Dying God religions, but that's just my tastes ;-)
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:34:27 AM
Most major world religions are tequila, Discorianism is like beer.
Basically Discordianism is the religion you drink from once you have had your fill of the major religions of the world.
So Atheists are Tee Totalers; and Agnostics are so thoroughly pissed they can't tell whether there's a drink in front of them or not?
Not really. Richard Dawkins is a raging alcoholic in the above metaphor.
But religions are the alcohol; so surely Atheists have also "had their fill" and then, unlike Discordians who have still have "something" after a sense, abstain completely? It seems to fit to me.
LMNOs point was that atheists are also religious.
or at least alcoholic.
or something.
especially the ones that are "fervently" atheist.
as for agnosts .. i dunno. let's say they drink to forget?
actually i don't really like the metaphore, but oh well :)
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
In some ways yes, in the way they go about it.
Though of course probabilistically speaking, it's somewhat more valid. Doesn't give people an excuse to be full of it, though.
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 09, 2007, 06:10:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
In some ways yes, in the way they go about it.
Though of course probabilistically speaking, it's somewhat more valid. Doesn't give people an excuse to be full of it, though.
a definitive and unshaking belief is just as religious as a definitive and unshaking non-belief.
yeah, i agree, no excuse to be full of it.
I have a valid and unshaking belief in Bacon. Hovering Bacon!
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 09, 2007, 06:10:20 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
In some ways yes, in the way they go about it.
Though of course probabilistically speaking, it's somewhat more valid. Doesn't give people an excuse to be full of it, though.
Well, Rho, how would you define what "religion" is?
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:34:27 AM
Most major world religions are tequila, Discorianism is like beer.
Basically Discordianism is the religion you drink from once you have had your fill of the major religions of the world.
Which religion would be most like Jack Daniels?
Winter
Thirsty.
Hunter S. Durdenism
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
I think I would favor "dogmatic" over religious in that statement.
Christian Discordianism; eh?
I've made a promotional poster for this new religion.
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5/xiandiscorke7.jpg)
:lulz:, :mittens:
I am now officially glad we didn't run you off.
we're so easy to please ...
FUCK YOU! MY MOM DIED BECAUSE SHE WAS EASY TO PLEASE!
...er... I don't think that came out right.
needs moar bacon, and hoverin.
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:56:08 PM
...er... I don't think that came out right.
is that how she died, then?
:rimshot:
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 09, 2007, 05:24:25 PM
Quote from: PopeTom on June 07, 2007, 08:34:27 AM
Most major world religions are tequila, Discorianism is like beer.
Basically Discordianism is the religion you drink from once you have had your fill of the major religions of the world.
So Atheists are Tee Totalers; and Agnostics are so thoroughly pissed they can't tell whether there's a drink in front of them or not?
No, Atheists are also chasing the worm like anyone else who comments on theological matters.
I've on occasion said that I am a Discordian because it's the theological leaning that best compliments my Atheism.
Quote from: triple zero on October 09, 2007, 06:00:42 PM
LMNOs point was that atheists are also religious.
or at least alcoholic.
I would not agree with the first statement, but I would agree with the second.
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
While there are Atheists who hold an unshakable belief that there is no God(s) Richard Dawkins is not one of them.
Have you read The God Delusion? I need to get my copy back from Forest, but you are welcome to borrow it when I do.
I can upload a pdf, for those who want it.
Purely so they can read before they decide to buy.
borrowed it from a friend last week, waiting until i get some time to read it.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/wompcabal/roflbot-GOCD.jpg)
Quote from: PopeTom on October 09, 2007, 11:31:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
While there are Atheists who hold an unshakable belief that there is no God(s) Richard Dawkins is not one of them.
Have you read The God Delusion? I need to get my copy back from Forest, but you are welcome to borrow it when I do.
Yeah, people get the wrong idea about Dawkins. While I disagree with him on some things I still respect him for being outspoken. It's purely because he's outspoken that he gets thrown in the "Atheist loon" pile. I feel the same thing would have happened to Michael Moore regardless of the quality/accuracy of his movies. People are sickeningly apathetic and don't want to be told to care about things unless it can be presented to them in the most official and systematic way possible; which gives us a problem since some things can't be presented in that way at all; like say "Think for yourself". People just demonise the outspoken these days.
Honestly; who is more likely to be banned from a forum; a genuine malevolant troll, or someone who's not taking shit on a particular issue?
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: PopeTom on October 09, 2007, 11:31:04 PM
Quote from: LMNO on October 09, 2007, 06:04:30 PM
A definitive and unshaking beleif that there is no God is just as religous as a definitive and unshaking belief that there is a God.
While there are Atheists who hold an unshakable belief that there is no God(s) Richard Dawkins is not one of them.
Have you read The God Delusion? I need to get my copy back from Forest, but you are welcome to borrow it when I do.
Yeah, people get the wrong idea about Dawkins. While I disagree with him on some things I still respect him for being outspoken. It's purely because he's outspoken that he gets thrown in the "Atheist loon" pile. I feel the same thing would have happened to Michael Moore regardless of the quality/accuracy of his movies. People are sickeningly apathetic and don't want to be told to care about things unless it can be presented to them in the most official and systematic way possible; which gives us a problem since some things can't be presented in that way at all; like say "Think for yourself". People just demonise the outspoken these days.
Honestly; who is more likely to be banned from a forum; a genuine malevolant troll, or someone who's not taking shit on a particular issue?
The person not taking shit is more likely to be BRANDED as a troll and expunged.
I think I may have been wrong about you noob.
Welcome.
**EDIT**
*It appears I was in fact, NOT wrong about the noob.*
**/EDIT**
Yeah, people have no idea what a troll actually is anymore. It's amazing how much the recent corruption of online forums has just changed definitions entirely.
There are two kind of troll though, sad little homophobic kids fucking around with people for sadism, and people generally doing it to people who deserve it to the lulz.
I'd sometimes fall into the latter, but it's obvious when I'm doing so. I use a name like "Spacious Bathroom" or "SilverShadowfan2k7" or something.
I often frequent sites where the definition is "you disagree with the majority of the people there". Which is why its so refreshing to come here, or go to FFC etc
Almost nowhere where ANYONE agrees with me.
I hold that "My board, my rules" is a bunch of nonsense since it doesn't excuse the fact that from a Utilitarian perspective, there is an alternate board moderator admin guy who made a fairer, more intelligent decision, and that boards don't exist in a vacuum; and often are the only board of it's type and attempts to set up an alternative tend to fail; not to mention the arrogance in thinking you can "Own" social interactions.
I just hate how "Simple" people are. They don't see to be able to look at the larger scale, see how things flow into each other and how what one person does somewhere can actually affect someone even if it's just the "Intarwebs".
God King complex. I recently wrote on that, from a trolling and IRL perspective. Nothing more than honourless scumbags who want to abuse their power.
The problem is, of course, that so many people buy into their arguments without thinking.
Yes. You're a nut for thinking you can "tell people what to do" with their "private property". But their private property is affecting others! Argh. They're not giving us a gift, if they weren't running that forum someone better might.
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible?
Probably Jesus was one of the first discordian on this PLANET.
But there is a big difference between Jesus Christ (a person) and today's Christianism.
I'm discordian since I remember, but I know many people who was Christians (or something like that) and now they're discordians (or something like that) :)
So - don't worry ... and remember :
"When in doubt - fuck it
When not in doubt ... get in doubt !" (old poee slogan)
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 04:51:49 PM
You're a nut for thinking you can "tell people what to do" with their "private property"
FILTHY REACTIONARY
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on October 11, 2007, 03:42:21 PM
Almost nowhere where ANYONE agrees with me.
I hold that "My board, my rules" is a bunch of nonsense since it doesn't excuse the fact that from a Utilitarian perspective, there is an alternate board moderator admin guy who made a fairer, more intelligent decision, and that boards don't exist in a vacuum; and often are the only board of it's type and attempts to set up an alternative tend to fail; not to mention the arrogance in thinking you can "Own" social interactions.
I just hate how "Simple" people are. They don't see to be able to look at the larger scale, see how things flow into each other and how what one person does somewhere can actually affect someone even if it's just the "Intarwebs".
(http://static.flickr.com/75/195983063_e380efd610.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 03:34:32 PM
I often frequent sites where the definition is "you disagree with the majority of the people there". Which is why its so refreshing to come here, or go to FFC etc
First Family Church?
Quote from: rzasthole on October 20, 2007, 03:11:20 PM
Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2007, 03:34:32 PM
I often frequent sites where the definition is "you disagree with the majority of the people there". Which is why its so refreshing to come here, or go to FFC etc
First Family Church?
Sadly no.
DiscussAnything, AboveTopSecret (I've pissed off the right, the left, the sceptics, the believers, the Christians and the Atheists so far), the sadly defunct Chavscum and, most recently, GovTeen (made up stories in the puberty forum ftw!)
If Jesus was Jewish...why does he have a Puerto Rican name?
The Commander
DIA
Quote from: The Commander on November 16, 2007, 10:58:07 AM
If Jesus was Jewish...why does he have a Puerto Rican name?
The Commander
DIA
Where the fuck have YOU been?
Quote from: The Commander on November 16, 2007, 10:58:07 AM
If Jesus was Jewish...why does he have a Puerto Rican name?
The Commander
DIA
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Pangea_animation_03.gif)
One theory...
Secret mission. I have infiltrated the highest level of government. In a few months I will be in position to ask the President to pass the ketchup.
The Commander DIA
Quote from: The Commander on November 20, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
Secret mission. I have infiltrated the highest level of government. In a few months I will be in position to ask the President to pass the ketchup.
The Commander DIA
KICK HIM IN THE NADS!
IN THA NADS!
Only after he gives me his report.
And some pommes frites.
Der Kommandant
DND
President man's got nards?
Quote from: Mourning Star on November 21, 2007, 09:55:55 AM
President man's got nards?
apparantly, just just posted at eb&g....course that pic is older than the internet
nsfw
http://images.ifun.ru/x/xtkvGjVes1.jpg
Quote from: Darth Cupcake on August 02, 2007, 04:20:19 PM
Discordian Christian: A Christian, but with Discordian leanings, such as perhaps believing in Jesus/the crucifixion, etc, but also believing in the ideas of chaos, mindfucking, etc.
for the record, that's me that is
m$
This thread beats Jesus, in terms of resurrection.
Quote from: Cainad on May 27, 2008, 10:32:35 PM
This thread beats Jesus, in terms of resurrection.
in 5 days it will ascend to the right hand of...
well it will probably just descend to the bottom of this page
by reminding me of the glorious resurection of my lord you have blessed my heart :cry: :oops: :x
Christianity is about believing about whether Jesus does exist not whether He DID exist.
Call me weird, but the reason I am a Christian is I think it's true, and I try to fit in the reality I see around me with the New Testament. If I ask real people for explanations when I get stuck I usually get a decent answer... if I ask the Church you often just just the same lines quoted back like yesterdays burgers in the work canteen
I am a discordian because i think people need to "think for themselves schmuck" and I think Christians especially need to learn that, but because I believe Christianity is real I dont think that will lead people away from it, permanently anyway.
But then - who the fuck am I ?
I like to refer to Illuminatus! when talking about the resurrection. Y'know, how Malaclypse the Elder pretended to be Jesus coming back from the dead and then ascended without taking any revenge so that people wouldn't get the wrong idea.
makes just as much sense as that bible stuff
I am a Christopagan.
It's funny to imagine Jesus' reaction to that statement.
Quote from: Felix on May 28, 2008, 12:40:00 AM
It's funny to imagine Jesus' reaction to that statement.
Like this:
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5/xiandiscorke7.jpg)
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian? Would Jehova be somehow like the character who smashes the barstool at those pretensious bastards? I wonder... Maybe some of you are Christians? I'm a n00b....
There are Christian Discordians. There's even a group called
Discordians for Jesus. Mind you it's very small and doesn't have much organization, but it's there at http://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/ek-sen-trik-kuh/discordiajesus.html (http://discordia.uncle%20badtouch.org/ek-sen-trik-kuh/discordiajesus.html)
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
I dunno... that motherfucker caused a hell of a lot of chaos over the past 2000 years.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 06, 2008, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
I dunno... that motherfucker caused a hell of a lot of chaos over the past 2000 years.
:?
that would be the people doing shit in that "motherfucker"'s name and a shitload of politics and religion. i dunno how exactly the motherfucker himself could be responsible for it, they just took some (could have any, really) tiny seed of a meme, used his name (well, not really), turned him into an icon, and proceeded to cause chaos.
add to that, what you're basically suggesting here is that a Christian Discordian (if they would exist) would be someone that gets his kicks of Strife and Discord from the crusades and christian religious wars? ... veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery, interesting. i dunno if i'd want to meet one, though.
Quote from: triple zero on June 06, 2008, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 06, 2008, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
I dunno... that motherfucker caused a hell of a lot of chaos over the past 2000 years.
:?
that would be the people doing shit in that "motherfucker"'s name and a shitload of politics and religion. i dunno how exactly the motherfucker himself could be responsible for it, they just took some (could have any, really) tiny seed of a meme, used his name (well, not really), turned him into an icon, and proceeded to cause chaos.
add to that, what you're basically suggesting here is that a Christian Discordian (if they would exist) would be someone that gets his kicks of Strife and Discord from the crusades and christian religious wars? ... veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery, interesting. i dunno if i'd want to meet one, though.
Well, you make a good point, we don't even know if the poor bastard ever actually existed ;-)
But, yea... maybe a Christian Discordian would exult in the chaos and discord sown by the self-proclaimed followers of Jesus...
Eris got her kicks on the battlefield, I'm sure she didn't confine her mirth to just the Greek and Roman conflicts ;-)
I personally know a Christian Discordian as I've talked about in the past. Chuck Full-O-Pope is a Christian Discordian. He's a really cool joe. He has his belief in Jesus, but, he also believes in Discordian ideals like Nonsense as Salvation, Think For Yourself, etc. Not all Christians are single-minded idiots like Pat Robertson and his flock.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 06, 2008, 04:33:26 PM
I personally know a Christian Discordian as I've talked about in the past. Chuck Full-O-Pope is a Christian Discordian. He's a really cool joe. He has his belief in Jesus, but, he also believes in Discordian ideals like Nonsense as Salvation, Think For Yourself, etc. Not all Christians are single-minded idiots like Pat Robertson and his flock.
Yeah, I didn't mean to indicate that they were all the same... though I think it would be difficult to accept most, but not all of the current 'christian' dogma if you were promoting "Think for Yourself" and "Nonsense as Salvation".
That is, the Jesus in the Bible isn't exactly a "Think For Yourself, Schmuck" sorta guy... at least, not without some modification and editing. But, hell, there's nothing wrong with that ;-)
Yeah, but that assumes that all Christians are buying into the same dogma. There are many shapes and varieties of Chritianity beyond what makes the press. And not all Chrisitians rely as heavily upon the Bible as what you hear in the press.
I can understand a "Sermon on the Mount" Xtian Discordian, but not a Corinthians/Old Testament/Revalations Discordian.
Ok, maybe a Revelations Discordian, because it's freaky.
Phage = Old Testament Discordian.
Irrational, contradictory and highly chaotic.
I don't really know alot about the particular sect of Christianity that Chuck belongs to. But from what I understood, they are definitely out of the mainstream when it comes to Christianity. I don't think it's quite David Koresh territory, but I'm not entirely sure I'd drink the Kool-aid if they offered me some. :wink:
But, when he and I would talk about Discordianism, most of our conversations focused around the "don't take everything so damned seriously" philosophies and "Think for yourself". I understand how that doesn't square with some since to many of us it seems absurd that one could Think for themself AND believe in Jesus.
But, isn't that the same as when we talk in BIP, when someone sees the prison, sees the cells, but decided, in the end, the cell they are in works for them?
It would seem to me, if we disqualify someone based on that, we are claiming that we have concretely mapped out a part of THE Reality Grid.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 06, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
I don't really know alot about the particular sect of Christianity that Chuck belongs to. But from what I understood, they are definitely out of the mainstream when it comes to Christianity. I don't think it's quite David Koresh territory, but I'm not entirely sure I'd drink the Kool-aid if they offered me some. :wink:
But, when he and I would talk about Discordianism, most of our conversations focused around the "don't take everything so damned seriously" philosophies and "Think for yourself". I understand how that doesn't square with some since to many of us it seems absurd that one could Think for themself AND believe in Jesus.
But, isn't that the same as when we talk in BIP, when someone sees the prison, sees the cells, but decided, in the end, the cell they are in works for them?
It would seem to me, if we disqualify someone based on that, we are claiming that we have concretely mapped out a part of THE Reality Grid.
Oh I wasn't trying to disqualify anyone!!!
I mean, thats the whole thing of our BiP, right... each of our cells are made of some unique mix of iron, stone and toilet paper. ;-)
I think, if one were to tackle it from a "Kingdom of God is within You" perspective and draw from some of the more apocryphal works... depending on which gospels you like, Jesus can appear as a pretty hoopy frood.
And, if you're happy with him as a Archetype, rather than the really real savior... well, the Dying God has been useful for lots of societies.
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
For sumbunall, I think it appeals to their guilty conscience.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 06, 2008, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
I dunno... that motherfucker caused a hell of a lot of chaos over the past 2000 years.
Ohhhhhhh, wow, it just occurred to me how many people it would piss off if we canonized Jesus...
Quote from: Nigel on June 07, 2008, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 06, 2008, 03:57:50 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on June 06, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
I still don't get what the point of that would be.
I dunno... that motherfucker caused a hell of a lot of chaos over the past 2000 years.
Ohhhhhhh, wow, it just occurred to me how many people it would piss off if we canonized Jesus...
Discordians for Jesus at http://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/ek-sen-trik-kuh/discordiajesus.html also thought it was a great idea, hence the name. Although I believe they're serious.
I think it would be more irritating if, say, the Great Googlie-Mooglie Cabal did it.
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on June 06, 2008, 06:10:56 AM
Quote from: imposter on June 07, 2007, 08:32:26 AM
Unfortunately, that's not true. But... is it possible? How would one's relationship with the authority of Jehova be as a Discordian? Would Jehova be somehow like the character who smashes the barstool at those pretensious bastards? I wonder... Maybe some of you are Christians? I'm a n00b....
There are Christian Discordians. There's even a group called Discordians for Jesus. Mind you it's very small and doesn't have much organization, but it's there at http://discordia.Uncle BadTouch.org/ek-sen-trik-kuh/discordiajesus.html (http://discordia.uncle%20badtouch.org/ek-sen-trik-kuh/discordiajesus.html)
If you go there please post this picture:
Quote from: Cainad on May 28, 2008, 08:11:24 AM
Quote from: Felix on May 28, 2008, 12:40:00 AM
It's funny to imagine Jesus' reaction to that statement.
Like this:
(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5/xiandiscorke7.jpg)
Thank you.
wat
The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups. So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning.
But I think there are significant philosophical differences between Christianity and Discordianism. Christianity has a variation on God as the one who creates the world out of the formless chaos and brings order to it. He is the Law-Giver. Sin is defined as what separates one from God - the concept of authority is central to a lot of Christianity. Same for rules. The Rules are good because the infallible Law-Giver made them; you, as a fallible human being shouldn't try to create your own rules because you'll probably screw it up. Some branches leave interpreting what God wants you to do to tradition, to a college of bishops w/ pope, to a community of believers, or to the Bible. If an individual ever has to figure out the right thing, he has to do a lot of praying.
Discordianism has an entirely different stance. Rules and order simply aren't necessary. Discordianism doesn't really admit that there ever has been a Law-Giver, and if there was, then he could either be followed or not. The concept of Authority as something that someone possesses by virtue of being omnipotent or omnibenevolent or creator is foreign; in Discordianism, the only authority that another has over you is the authority you choose to grant him. The only rules that exist are the ones you place on yourself.
Does anyone else think that this thread would be more interesting if the shortened title you see from the forum index (Hello, I am a Christ...) was the actual topic. Self-proclaimed messiahs are fun. In fact, now that I think of it, I'll try to find an appropriate forum to join and declare myself the messiah.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 10, 2008, 05:54:21 AM
The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups. So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning.
But I think there are significant philosophical differences between Christianity and Discordianism. Christianity has a variation on God as the one who creates the world out of the formless chaos and brings order to it. He is the Law-Giver. Sin is defined as what separates one from God - the concept of authority is central to a lot of Christianity. Same for rules. The Rules are good because the infallible Law-Giver made them; you, as a fallible human being shouldn't try to create your own rules because you'll probably screw it up. Some branches leave interpreting what God wants you to do to tradition, to a college of bishops w/ pope, to a community of believers, or to the Bible. If an individual ever has to figure out the right thing, he has to do a lot of praying.
Discordianism has an entirely different stance. Rules and order simply aren't necessary. Discordianism doesn't really admit that there ever has been a Law-Giver, and if there was, then he could either be followed or not. The concept of Authority as something that someone possesses by virtue of being omnipotent or omnibenevolent or creator is foreign; in Discordianism, the only authority that another has over you is the authority you choose to grant him. The only rules that exist are the ones you place on yourself.
:potd:
You summed up a lot of ideas that have been floating around in my head for a bit but that I was having a hell of a time getting into words.
Quote from: The Space Pope on June 10, 2008, 06:19:22 AM
Does anyone else think that this thread would be more interesting if the shortened title you see from the forum index (Hello, I am a Christ...) was the actual topic. Self-proclaimed messiahs are fun. In fact, now that I think of it, I'll try to find an appropriate forum to join and declare myself the messiah.
"Secure your future: Declare yourself Jesus while masturbating in public." :fap:
Since we're on this subject;
I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.
For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part. Personally I believe in the idea that some things should just be fought out. It is only when it gets to large scale conflict or the ridiculous political divisions you get today - which in my opinion are often a result of not fighting out the minor issues, that it's really bad.
For me Eris is a concept that represents Discord and Strife, but some people see her as a more anarchistic entity. I think this is somewhat of a polarisation, I think encouraging disorder doesn't mean you ignore the benefits of some level of order completely. I believe that people convince themselve far too much of order and basically make it their business to act more like each other - for me, Discord is in some ways the essence of human individuality, of .
Individuality in today's world is like a Golden Apple in of itself - shit-storms arise everywhere just because someone has a point of view that's not quite the same as someone else's, that person is called stupid, and insane. If that person just states their views and bugger off, they might not get much hassle, and often grow complacent and point out to younger activists "Oh, I used to be like you but then I just shut up and stopped trying to defend myself, now I'm supposedly much happier". If they actually believe in fighting and defending their point, the "Strife" part, that's when they get torn to bits. Giving in here is a bad thing.
This is where I'd be unsure how someone could equate this in with Christianity. For instance, I have a friend who was absorbed by "Biblical Christianity"(i.e. he literally believe the Bible) a couple of years back. This was one of the most distressing and disturbing things to go through. But what I noticed is that he never really wanted to talk about it. I was upset because there are certain aspects of myself that he looked down upon just because the Bible said to(even when it didn't).
He refused to fight these things about, and because of this, we never reached a resolution. Now I think there can be some benefits to keeping things calm and not being on edge all the time, there is no one unifying concept. But this was an instance where going through an Unsettling period was too much for his "Christian" mindset to take, but my more Erisian one strived for it.
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.
Eris in of herself was painted as a negative deity, always appears as a bad guy in fiction - for me Eris is just like these kind of people, the misunderstood idea. Even though it is people that "invent" Gods to begin with, there's kind of a subtext to the ideas - such things often exist as concepts before anyone recognises and misinterprets them - that defines what they truly represent. A kind of underlying consistency that's not often pronounced.
There is somewhat of a parallel with Christianity here - Jesus himself was "misunderstood" after a fashion. But not quite for the same reasons. With Eris, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept. With the character of Jesus, it was a case of "Mistaken Identity" after a sense.
Instead of just looking at the concepts of Discord and Strife, I look at what they can achieve, and because of that, to me, Eris may well be a very positive thing.
Because there is too much order(or false order), the position of Discord and Strife could be one of striving for balance(though of course, even if there was a balance, such concepts sometimes still need to be defended). I believe very strongly in the use logic because it IS inherent whether you like it or not and it bemuses me that some Discordians seem to oppose it. No matter WHAT your worldview, it shouldn't be an excuse to disregard such things. Many Xians put themselves beyond logic, because GOD'S LOGIC IS BETTER, and some Discordians seem to regard purely because they're CHAOTIC, LIFE IS NOT LOGICAL and it's obviously expected of them to be Roffle so Random XD(i.e. idiot /b/tards).
In this, I think there is such a thing as not a "Christian" Discordian, but a form of Deist Discordian - someone who reached that position through reasoning it out instead of picking what feels right(not that this is always a bad idea).
So I think some form of Order and Discord can work together. It depends where you put the order, and where you put the Discord.
Of course, this is the the thing. JCI religions are very monotheistic - they are dedicated towards ONE concept. Whereas Discordianism by nature is often "slashed" with something else. When you look at it like this - there is the possibility that "People" can stand for different values. For instance, you may recognise that order can be as important as disorder depending on where it's implemented, but you yourself are more at home, feel more competent promoting the idea of disorder.
I mean, think about it. Who is cooler, Super-man or the X-men? Super-man is kind of the perfect hero, here you have this one ultimate invincible guy with ONE weakness(Kryptonite instead of the Devil). The X-men have to achieve that power through them all having their own individual powers and the flaws that come with them. They are more of a pantheon.
This is why it bothers me that whenever people take serious issue with something, there's often one person that says OH BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN DYING IN AFRICA. I find Irish people are the fucking worse for this, which is ironic since we have some of the most third-world like services in western europe. Yes, that's REALLY REALLY BAD, but it doesn't change the fact that the fact that there's never anything to do in this shithole country is still BAD in of itself.
Even if something is more URGENT, it doesn't mean everyone has to dedicate themselves to it. Some people are more appropriated to concentrating on certain issues. Often the people as I describe are just using it as an excuse to be apathetic, as they're not that bothered about The Children in Africa either. And some of the ones that DO work with the Children in Africa for a week or two seem to use it as an excuse to be obnoxious towards anyone who dares to care about something else.
Of course we should CARE about it. We should CARE about everything that's going wrong, apathy only leads to degradation. Of course, apathy is nice and Orderly.
But certain people will be more suited to some things more than others.
This is again why Discord promotes a more individualistic approach, since it is compatible with other worldviews, it is a very individualistic approach.
Whereas with Christianity, it's not so much - you strive to be like Jesus. You tend to care more about one singular concept, sometimes one that is poorly defended on a logical basis.
So I think on this basis, Discordianism and Christianity are not very compatible.
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 10, 2008, 05:54:21 AM
The thing about Christianity is that it is such a wide tradition, with so many interpretations and subgroups. So many different kinds of people label themselves as Christian that I think the word has really lost most of its meaning....
I like this (the whole thing, not just the part I quoted.) One thing that makes Christianity different from most religions is that it was never truly "one religion," largely because it began after its "founder's" death. Paul's letters to the seven churches that existed in the very early days of Christianity show that their theologies were very different from each other.
That's one thing Christianity and Discordianism have in common--they were never unified (if we conveniently ignore that period when the Roman Catholic Church controlled most of Europe).
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;
I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.
For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part.
wut
:lulz:
FUNNIEST.
POST.
EVAR.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;
I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.
For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part.
wut
:lulz:
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
like, serious LOLing, not just LQTMing
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.
It all makes sense now :lulz:
At first glance, this appears to be a highly Discordian idea. Then, when you look more closely, it turns out to be just another version of fanatical vigilantism.
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.
So you're saying that you just don't feel like you're complete if you're not constantly stirring the shit somewhere?
Quote from: vexati0n on June 11, 2008, 06:12:54 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
I strongly believe that you NEED to cause unrest on some level to make the world a better place. You need to shake things up. It's like a breeze trying to blow away some dust on the ground - it scrapes along. But if you should things up, raise the dust to the air - as violent as the process may seem in comparison, sure enough most of the dust will be blown away.
So you're saying that you just don't feel like you're complete if you're not constantly stirring the shit somewhere?
OH!!
:potd:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: I Am Not A Rhombus on June 10, 2008, 04:03:32 PM
Since we're on this subject;
I'm not expressly a Discordian, but then again I'm judging by the people on this forum which I don't get on too well with, but I'm something similar.
For me I feel with regards Eris people ignore the "Strife" part.
wut
:lulz:
Someone clearly hasn't hung around me for a good long time.
Cain,
practically personifies the Strife aspect at times.
You misunderstand.
Strife is only important when you're doing this ----> :FFF: against the blatant evil on the internet. Any other application of strife is just you being an obstinate immoral scumbag.
strife?
does anyone else find it funny that christians, who make up the largest and most powerful majority in the the united states, still feel the need to believe that they are oppressed, subjugated, and somehow under attack??? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to feed a lot of them to the lions, but for reall...
oh, and yes... I am Christ.
Being persecuted is teh shit. You get to bitch and moan, and act all righteous at the same time! Plus it create in-group loyalty.
Being persecuted gives you the moral authority to be a total dickhead. See: IANAR
Quote from: Rev. Voodoo on June 13, 2008, 09:42:21 PM
strife?
does anyone else find it funny that christians, who make up the largest and most powerful majority in the the united states, still feel the need to believe that they are oppressed, subjugated, and somehow under attack???....
I do, although I think those who claim that are mostly a whiney minority. I'm not saying someone couldn't be picked on in America for being Christian. They can pick on you for anything. But where I grew up you were a more likely target if you had red hair and freckles, or if you didn't dress the way you were "supposed to," or if you dated someone of a different race, or if your parents were of different races. And if you claimed to be a witch? Bring out the tar and feathers and oil and torches, folks!
But you could get away with being called Wiccan, because back in the day nobody knew what that meant except other Pagans. You could say Wiccans believed in natural medicine, preserving nature, God, and invoking the Goddess while dancing naked around a bonfire. OK, maybe you might leave off that last part....
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on June 14, 2008, 05:04:29 AM
Quote from: Rev. Voodoo on June 13, 2008, 09:42:21 PM
strife?
does anyone else find it funny that christians, who make up the largest and most powerful majority in the the united states, still feel the need to believe that they are oppressed, subjugated, and somehow under attack???....
I do, although I think those who claim that are mostly a whiney minority. I'm not saying someone couldn't be picked on in America for being Christian. They can pick on you for anything. But where I grew up you were a more likely target if you had red hair and freckles, or if you didn't dress the way you were "supposed to," or if you dated someone of a different race, or if your parents were of different races. And if you claimed to be a witch? Bring out the tar and feathers and oil and torches, folks!
But you could get away with being called Wiccan, because back in the day nobody knew what that meant except other Pagans. You could say Wiccans believed in natural medicine, preserving nature, God, and invoking the Goddess while dancing naked around a bonfire WITH 300 POUND SMELLY HAIRY CHICKS AND EFFEMINATE MEN WHO SHAVE THEIR LEGS AND WEAR EYESHADOW. OK, maybe you might leave off that last part....
Fixed.
Quote from: Reverend Uncle BadTouch on June 14, 2008, 05:04:29 AM
Quote from: Rev. Voodoo on June 13, 2008, 09:42:21 PM
strife?
does anyone else find it funny that christians, who make up the largest and most powerful majority in the the united states, still feel the need to believe that they are oppressed, subjugated, and somehow under attack???....
I do, although I think those who claim that are mostly a whiney minority. I'm not saying someone couldn't be picked on in America for being Christian. They can pick on you for anything. But where I grew up you were a more likely target if you had red hair and freckles, or if you didn't dress the way you were "supposed to," or if you dated someone of a different race, or if your parents were of different races. And if you claimed to be a witch? Bring out the tar and feathers and oil and torches, folks!
But you could get away with being called Wiccan, because back in the day nobody knew what that meant except other Pagans. You could say Wiccans believed in natural medicine, preserving nature, God, and invoking the Goddess while dancing naked around a bonfire. AND TRY TO GET AWAY WITH BLATANTLY MAKING STUFF UP AND CALLING IT HISTORY
fixed
SHUT UP THE BURNING TIMES WAS OUR HOLOCAUST!!!
PAGANS ARE JUST LIKE J00S, ONLY EVEN MOAR PERSECUTED!
I think once upon a time many years ago I described my venture into PaganLand, where I received that actual speech and many others. Maybe I'll write it up again.
If you do, would you mind me copying it to my little Pagan mocking site?
http://whypaganismsucks.blogspot.com/
It could fit in quite well.
Okay, gimme a while.
Thanks, whenever you have the time. Sadly, I don't seem to be inspiring Pagans to attack me for my nasty postings. Well, not yet at least. :|
Once upon a time, long ago, when I was a young and bright-eyed college student, I took a class on witchcraft. It was pretty cool. We did a lot of neat stuff, like make a haunted house for halloween, and we took a field trip to Circle Sanctuary. (http://www.circlesanctuary.org/) Little did we know, when starting out, that if awkwardness is hell we were traveling all the way down to the ninth circle.
It started out badly enough. We all piled into a bus and wended our way into the "hills" (as one raised in Utah, I just can't get impressed by the puny geology of southern Wisconsin). The road kept getting narrower and narrower, more and more overgrown, but when you've got a bus built like a tank that doesn't matter too much.
We were greeted by two dumpy women. One was young and dumpy, clad in a tie-dye fairy t-shirt and broomstick skirt. The other was old and dumpy, with some sort of linen contraption that was tied badly at the sides, exposing vast expanses of old, dumpy woman-flesh. They were the only ones there.
We were escorted into a barn which stank of mice. It was the only structure on the site. It was empty except for a lot of folding chairs and a small table piled with a bunch of those polished stones you can get at the mall. We arranged the folding chairs in a circle and sat, holding hands in total silence, while the Dumpy Ladies sang at us. I don't know about you, but being part of a disbelieving group while two people sing badly, in high quavery voices, was one of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. They were obviously going through the steps they always used on tour groups, except that we weren't gushy nerds totally ready to get totally into it. They did a little speech about the basic precepts of Wicca, law of threes and all that, then told us to pick up a stone from the table and we'd go hiking.
Then after all that bullshit was over, we wended our way up the "mountain". We passed various shrines: one for cats, one for dogs, one for deer ("Pray for the deer stricken with wasting disease!") etc. At the very top of the "mountain" there was a clearing with a wide circle made out of little rocks. We were instructed to meditate and find a good spot to stick our mall stones. Then we all stood in a circle and held hands and listened to the Dumpy Ladies sing again, and do their little presenting to the four directions, and sing some more. It was just as awkward the second time, if not more.
From there we proceeded down to a small meadow, where we received the "The Burning Times was our Holocaust" speech from Old Dumpy Lady. She got so angry she actually got choked up about it. That, right there, was the pinnacle of awkwardness, the very peak of an entire mountain of social discomfort. Everything after that was just sad.
Young Dumpy Lady took us to the fairy shrine, where she announced that not only did she believe in fairies, but she had her own personal fairy guardian who kept an eye on her. Too bad he never told her to wash her hair. After that we all looked at each other in relief, thinking we could go, but no! Instead we had to visit "St. Brigitte's Well", a stagnant, flagellate-infested pond surrounded by trees decorated with ribbons. We were told that the ribbons were hung by wish-makers who totally got what they needed and, oh yeah, don't drink the water because you might die of shitting your intestines inside out. I could barely hold my amusement at the thought of the goddess/saint of healing having a tainted well. Oh well, work with what you have, right?
Finally, it was time to go. We got sung at one more time, then piled into our bus and left with relief. On the way back we stopped at the Mt. Horeb Mustard Museum, which made it all worthwhile.
Wow, that was... :lulz: "Mall stones"!
You know what's really interesting? If you bring up modern day witches being killed in Africa etc, most Wiccans shrug their shoulders and go "so?" Apparently, not the right sort of witches. Probably too black or something. Not that I'm suggesting there is an undercurrent of racism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Order_%28group%29) in Neopaganism or anything
I didn't know the Order was considered neopagan.
The Order had more than a few Odinist members (in fact it was a major source of in-group dissention), and last time I checked Odin wasn't Bible material.
Let met clarify, I didn't know the Order had any religious overtones at all, but Odinism makes sense (lol hitler lol)
As far as I am aware Odinists usually consider themselves Heathens, to distinguish them from Pagans, who they don't like.
This seems to be a fairly recent change, but then it's not like I've paid much attention.