I have my own crazy idea and I want to share it with you, tell me what you think!
What if people make conspiracy theories because they're afraid of chaos?
Conspiracy buffs often say that "nothing is coincidence" and "everything has a reason behind it" or something to that end.
Maybe they just get terrified by the possibility that things happen for no reason?
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
Quote from: Alan Moore
The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless.
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
I have my own crazy idea and I want to share it with you, tell me what you think!
What if people make conspiracy theories because they're afraid of chaos?
Conspiracy buffs often say that "nothing is coincidence" and "everything has a reason behind it" or something to that end.
Maybe they just get terrified by the possibility that things happen for no reason?
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I was having a conversation yesterday about this very thing. To quote a fellow from the thread:
QuoteWhich is more terrifying? That the world is screwed up due to short-sighted morons with unbridled greed and an apathetic population?
Or that some group is in charge and all the misery is just part of their infamous plan?
One thing that drives me crazy are all the people who seem to have absolutely no idea how to vet their news sources, who post tabloid-Naturalnews-Food Babe bullshit while claiming that Establishment Scientists are concealing the truth and working for Big Pharma, while meanwhile scientists are busily waving their arms trying to bring attention to climate change, ocean acidification, desertification, food supply vulnerability, bias, graft, lobbying, collusion between big business and government, species extinction due to habitat encroachment, how escalating cycles of hostility worsen the terrorist problem, and a host of other actual serious problems.
But no. The problem has to be cell phones and the vaccine conspiracy.
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
I have my own crazy idea and I want to share it with you, tell me what you think!
What if people make conspiracy theories because they're afraid of chaos?
Conspiracy buffs often say that "nothing is coincidence" and "everything has a reason behind it" or something to that end.
Maybe they just get terrified by the possibility that things happen for no reason?
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I agree with this completely. The conspiracy theorist prefers to harbor their pet theories because it's safer to think there is a Big Bad at the wheel, rather than nobody at the wheel at all. Also, they get to feel they are "in the know" about it all, and therefor superior.
I think it's interesting we all independently came to the same idea.
Maybe it's a meme?
Yes, it's probably been a meme for a while. I've seen this discussed on Slacktivist a lot.
There is also moral superiority to be had. And it's FREE. Just assume there are a cabal of evil Satanists murdering babies and having non-consensual sex with dogs, and you're instantly one of the good guys, because you do NOT do that. And the reason you don't stop it is because they're in charge of everything! What you're doing now, bleating about bullshit? It's the only way to stop them!
Not just order, but MORAL order. If that makes sense.
Well, and if some evil cluster of masterminds is steering this whole thing, it means we aren't actually careening uncontrollably toward disaster that nobody has the power to avert. It means that the Chosen will survive and carry on. In some ways that's got to be very comforting.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 28, 2014, 09:51:15 PM
Well, and if some evil cluster of masterminds is steering this whole thing, it means we aren't actually careening uncontrollably toward disaster that nobody has the power to avert. It means that the Chosen will survive and carry on. In some ways that's got to be very comforting.
Yeah. I have to wonder why I don't believe in a conspiracy myself. I mean, it's probably not due to me being smart.
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 09:41:45 PM
I think it's interesting we all independently came to the same idea.
Maybe it's a meme?
As an idea, isn't it
by definition a meme?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 28, 2014, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 09:41:45 PM
I think it's interesting we all independently came to the same idea.
Maybe it's a meme?
As an idea, isn't it by definition a meme?
Yes.
New signature.
Also, aren't only infectious ideas memes? Or is that just my understanding?
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 10:53:53 PM
New signature.
Also, aren't only infectious ideas memes? Or is that just my understanding?
If I recall from reading Dawkins 20 years ago, it's any idea or unit of information. Whether it lives or dies depends on transmission, but the idea itself is the meme, just as a unit of biological information is a gene whether it is reproduced or not.
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I had something to add to this, then I got to this last line here.
Fuck off.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 04:45:46 AM
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I had something to add to this, then I got to this last line here.
Fuck off.
I think it's more like
Quoteit would explain why random wannabe anarchists who think they are Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 29, 2014, 04:53:38 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 04:45:46 AM
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I had something to add to this, then I got to this last line here.
Fuck off.
I think it's more like
Quoteit would explain why random wannabe anarchists who think they are Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
Oh, okay. I was basing it on his earlier attitude, and got a "You People" vibe off of it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 04:54:33 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 29, 2014, 04:53:38 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on December 29, 2014, 04:45:46 AM
Quote from: Rev. Mondo Anvil on December 28, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
If that were true, it would explain why Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
I had something to add to this, then I got to this last line here.
Fuck off.
I think it's more like
Quoteit would explain why random wannabe anarchists who think they are Discordians and conspiracy theories are like bread and butter...
Oh, okay. I was basing it on his earlier attitude, and got a "You People" vibe off of it.
I could be wrong, and would not be surprised if I am, given my track record.
RE: the OP. That's certainly a large element of it, though I'm leery of psychologically dismissing people whose worldview I disagree with.
Also worth considering:
- some people belive these things because it's profitable to do so. Alex Jones, for example. There is a vast "conspiratainment complex" where, if you come up with sufficiently wacky and fact-free "theories", you too can make a buck on the conspiratainment circuit, maybe even get a book deal and some radio interviews or two.
- some people are just actually crazy. I am willing to put David Icke into the category of "mental breakdown" without much in the way of hesitation. In fact, his "enlightenment experience" sounds suspiciously like a religious or conversion experience, which have also been linked to mental breakdowns in terms of cause and effect.
- Some people have a vague feeling that things are wrong, but don't know exactly what. Conspiracy theorism provides a simple, direct and completely wrong answer, whereas the actual answer, involving actual conspiracies (like the role of the arms trade in global conflict, false-flag terrorism and various assassinations) are usually vastly complex, difficult for an outsider to get into, and involve parsing and analyzing vast amounts of paperwork and data. For example, how many conspiracy theorists have you heard discuss the assassination of US-based arms dealer Dale Stoffel, who was almost certainly killed by elements in the US military and/or private contractors associated with arms companies threatened by his deal to supply the Iraqi Army? Virtually none, I'm guessing. How many conspiracy theorists have passed around the "Clinton Death List" or "Obama Death List"? Practically all of them.
- Political expediency. See the examples above. Because [those other guys] are literally baby-eating Satan worshipping lizards.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 28, 2014, 05:04:47 PM
One thing that drives me crazy are all the people who seem to have absolutely no idea how to vet their news sources, who post tabloid-Naturalnews-Food Babe bullshit while claiming that Establishment Scientists are concealing the truth and working for Big Pharma, while meanwhile scientists are busily waving their arms trying to bring attention to climate change, ocean acidification, desertification, food supply vulnerability, bias, graft, lobbying, collusion between big business and government, species extinction due to habitat encroachment, how escalating cycles of hostility worsen the terrorist problem, and a host of other actual serious problems.
But no. The problem has to be cell phones and the vaccine conspiracy.
You probably mean it in a more broad sense in which i would agree, but the APA board and psychiatrists have been shown in investigations to be hot in bed with pharmaceuticals... but this im saying is a very specific thing about mental health treatment methodology, nothing to do with the anti-polio-cause-autism freaks.
Regardless, to OP:
Maybe its a thing about "us" and "them" group dynamics mentality... its "THEM" (the Illuminati) that are to blame for all the evils in the world, while "US" are pretty butterfly victims that are helpless to do anything productive or ethical in this world.
Quote from: The Johnny on December 29, 2014, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 28, 2014, 05:04:47 PM
One thing that drives me crazy are all the people who seem to have absolutely no idea how to vet their news sources, who post tabloid-Naturalnews-Food Babe bullshit while claiming that Establishment Scientists are concealing the truth and working for Big Pharma, while meanwhile scientists are busily waving their arms trying to bring attention to climate change, ocean acidification, desertification, food supply vulnerability, bias, graft, lobbying, collusion between big business and government, species extinction due to habitat encroachment, how escalating cycles of hostility worsen the terrorist problem, and a host of other actual serious problems.
But no. The problem has to be cell phones and the vaccine conspiracy.
You probably mean it in a more broad sense in which i would agree, but the APA board and psychiatrists have been shown in investigations to be hot in bed with pharmaceuticals... but this im saying is a very specific thing about mental health treatment methodology, nothing to do with the anti-polio-cause-autism freaks.
Isn't that covered by collusion and graft, pretty much?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 29, 2014, 09:34:53 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on December 29, 2014, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 28, 2014, 05:04:47 PM
One thing that drives me crazy are all the people who seem to have absolutely no idea how to vet their news sources, who post tabloid-Naturalnews-Food Babe bullshit while claiming that Establishment Scientists are concealing the truth and working for Big Pharma, while meanwhile scientists are busily waving their arms trying to bring attention to climate change, ocean acidification, desertification, food supply vulnerability, bias, graft, lobbying, collusion between big business and government, species extinction due to habitat encroachment, how escalating cycles of hostility worsen the terrorist problem, and a host of other actual serious problems.
But no. The problem has to be cell phones and the vaccine conspiracy.
You probably mean it in a more broad sense in which i would agree, but the APA board and psychiatrists have been shown in investigations to be hot in bed with pharmaceuticals... but this im saying is a very specific thing about mental health treatment methodology, nothing to do with the anti-polio-cause-autism freaks.
Isn't that covered by collusion and graft, pretty much?
I had to look up graft, apparently common usage refers to biology language im not familiar with, and had to go deep to find "(uncountable) Illicit profit by corrupt means, especially in public life."
But yes, ok.
QuoteFor example, how many conspiracy theorists have you heard discuss the assassination of US-based arms dealer Dale Stoffel, who was almost certainly killed by elements in the US military and/or private contractors associated with arms companies threatened by his deal to supply the Iraqi Army?
That's got to be worth a thread, or at least a good place to start for more info.
Quote from: The Johnny on December 29, 2014, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 29, 2014, 09:34:53 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on December 29, 2014, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 28, 2014, 05:04:47 PM
One thing that drives me crazy are all the people who seem to have absolutely no idea how to vet their news sources, who post tabloid-Naturalnews-Food Babe bullshit while claiming that Establishment Scientists are concealing the truth and working for Big Pharma, while meanwhile scientists are busily waving their arms trying to bring attention to climate change, ocean acidification, desertification, food supply vulnerability, bias, graft, lobbying, collusion between big business and government, species extinction due to habitat encroachment, how escalating cycles of hostility worsen the terrorist problem, and a host of other actual serious problems.
But no. The problem has to be cell phones and the vaccine conspiracy.
You probably mean it in a more broad sense in which i would agree, but the APA board and psychiatrists have been shown in investigations to be hot in bed with pharmaceuticals... but this im saying is a very specific thing about mental health treatment methodology, nothing to do with the anti-polio-cause-autism freaks.
Isn't that covered by collusion and graft, pretty much?
I had to look up graft, apparently common usage refers to biology language im not familiar with, and had to go deep to find "(uncountable) Illicit profit by corrupt means, especially in public life."
But yes, ok.
Whoa, that's really weird... graft in that sense is very common usage here. Maybe that's only because Portland is incredibly corrupt and there is graft at almost every level of government?
Quote from: Junkenstein on December 30, 2014, 01:13:44 AM
QuoteFor example, how many conspiracy theorists have you heard discuss the assassination of US-based arms dealer Dale Stoffel, who was almost certainly killed by elements in the US military and/or private contractors associated with arms companies threatened by his deal to supply the Iraqi Army?
That's got to be worth a thread, or at least a good place to start for more info.
Meh, it's fairly simple. Stoffel's company was poised to become the sole arms contractor to the fledgling Iraqi Army. Stoffel is killed by a mysterious jihadist group before the deal can be finalised and ratified by the Iraqi Cabinet - by a group who were previously unheard of, and carried out no attacks since. His main contact and supporter within the Iraqi Parliament was also killed by a hitherto unheard of and supremely short-lived jihadist group. It also turns out Stoffel was a source for US investigators looking into corruption in military procurements in Iraq.
Problem is, that information is mostly buried in extremely boring reports by desperately unsexy US government agencies. So, no-one cares.