QuoteSpeaking to Aeon magazine, Dr Roache said drugs could be developed to distort prisoners' minds into thinking time was passing more slowly.
"There are a number of psychoactive drugs that distort people's sense of time, so you could imagine developing a pill or a liquid that made someone feel like they were serving a 1,000-year sentence," she said.
Quote
A second scenario would be to upload human minds to computers to speed up the rate at which the mind works, she wrote on her blog.
"If the speed-up were a factor of a million, a millennium of thinking would be accomplished in eight and a half hours... Uploading the mind of a convicted criminal and running it a million times faster than normal would enable the uploaded criminal to serve a 1,000 year sentence in eight-and-a-half hours. This would, obviously, be much cheaper for the taxpayer than extending criminals' lifespans to enable them to serve 1,000 years in real time."
What could possibly go wrong!? I mean as long as the tax payer saves money! :lulz: :eek:
I mean what a great way to save time and money on our prison pipeline!
Anyway, I realize it's hardly a scientific article (hence the sub-forum) but I thought it brought up an interesting discussion.
People need to rethink their reasons for jailing bad people.
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
Why why WHY can't we shake off this cultural fetish for torture and punishment?
Oh, good, so after just a day in jail we can release completely batshit-insane criminals into society. Sounds like a winning plan!
I like how this concept seeks to employ technology not to reduce crime, but to enable us to punish people MORE.
MORE PUNISHMENT PLEASE!
Hah, LMNO and Nigel beat me to it.
On the plus side, this would help speed along our evolution towards becoming MegaCity One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifvRiHVSCY&feature=player_detailpage#t=18).
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on March 17, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
Why why WHY can't we shake off this cultural fetish for torture and punishment?
(http://imgur.com/yMyemz3.jpg)
ALTERNATIVELY AND LESS SADISTICALLY. PUNISH THEM THE SAME AMOUNT BUT TAKE AWAY LESS OF THEIR LIFESPAN.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 17, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
That was my first thought.
1. Jail a sociopath
2. Hook em up to a machine to speed thru a couple eons
3. :?
4. Release an omniscient came-to-be-god that is still sociopathic, now also psychotic with thirst for vengeance to society.
Probably a very good way to take people who were just kind of messed up, got set on the wrong path, and so on and turn them into a 100% unrehabbable menace to society.
More to the point, with no speculation: It's torture. It's wrong.
I fucking hope that once we're at the point where a human mind can be uploaded to a computer and sped up to experience many lifetimes of thought, we have better uses for that technology than torture. Or even limiting the costs of prisoners on the taxpayer.
But I know we probably don't.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 17, 2014, 10:23:32 PM
More to the point, with no speculation: It's torture. It's wrong.
Nailed it.
We have what sounds like incredible technology and ths is the first application they think of? What in the world is wrong with us?
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Quote"To me, these questions about technology are interesting because they force us to rethink the truisms we currently hold about punishment. When we ask ourselves whether it's inhumane to inflict a certain technology on someone, we have to make sure it's not just the unfamiliarity that spooks us," Dr Roache said.
"Is it really OK to lock someone up for the best part of the only life they will ever have, or might it be more humane to tinker with their brains and set them free? When we ask that question, the goal isn't simply to imagine a bunch of futuristic punishments – the goal is to look at today's punishments through the lens of the future."
EDIT: So this quote kinda made me think the Doctor's position might not be "let's punish prisoners harder", but reading the blog (http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/08/enhanced-punishment-can-technology-make-life-sentences-longer/) I'm back to thinking that's the point.
QuoteAs a result, life imprisonment could mean several hundred years rather than a few decades. It would, of course, be more expensive for society to support such sentences. However, if lifespan enhancement were widely available, this cost could be offset by the increased contributions of a longer-lived workforce.
What even is this ridiculous speculation?
Quote from: Pergamos on March 17, 2014, 10:31:59 PM
We have what sounds like incredible technology and ths is the first application they think of? What in the world is wrong with us?
Well, nobody tried to make a gun with it, so I suppose it's a step up. Relatively speaking.
TGRR,
Still pissed about the 3D printer thing.
You all realize this is effectively the drug "Space" from Transmet.
Yep, once again, Warren Ellis turns out to be a prophet.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2014, 12:26:21 AM
You all realize this is effectively the drug "Space" from Transmet.
Yep, once again, Warren Ellis turns out to be a prophet.
Holy shit I need to re-read that.
Also I think nearly everyone in this thread nailed it....
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 17, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
And just imagine, if 1000 year sentences in X hours is possible, you'd STILL get people sentenced to "real" years of it anyway. Got to be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 18, 2014, 07:33:16 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 17, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
And just imagine, if 1000 year sentences in X hours is possible, you'd STILL get people sentenced to "real" years of it anyway. Got to be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 17, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
This works just like building a Magic the Gathering Deck. Every part needs to accelerate the other parts. They've managed to perfectly combine punishment with creating more crime.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 18, 2014, 07:33:16 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 17, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Wow. As far as I understand it, that wouldn't just be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in eight hours, that would be like serving a 1,000 year sentence in complete isolation. Which, if we've all been paying attention, has been known to drive people insane.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
And just imagine, if 1000 year sentences in X hours is possible, you'd STILL get people sentenced to "real" years of it anyway. Got to be tough on crime and the causes of crime.
Got to have vicious children in charge of punishing the other vicious children. Can't be seen to be weak, you know.
I HAVE THE CONCH, AND I HAVE THE GLASSES!
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 18, 2014, 04:16:04 PM
I HAVE THE CONCH, AND I HAVE THE GLASSES!
Damn right.
Why is our (American, anyway) civilization failing, when there's nothing WRONG, and in fact everything is better than it ever has been?
Because the people now making the decisions have never been under discipline, and the population they appeal to has never suffered anything resembling deprivation.
We are 312,000,000 morons with axes, heading out to the barn to get ALL the golden eggs.
Interesting. I wonder if the subject's sense of personal identity, responsibility and culpability could be maintained throughout, b/c you know how integrating disruptions in temporality can be to a person's social conformity... Really.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 18, 2014, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 18, 2014, 04:16:04 PM
I HAVE THE CONCH, AND I HAVE THE GLASSES!
Damn right.
Why is our (American, anyway) civilization failing, when there's nothing WRONG, and in fact everything is better than it ever has been?
Because the people now making the decisions have never been under discipline, and the population they appeal to has never suffered anything resembling deprivation.
We are 312,000,000 morons with axes, heading out to the barn to get ALL the golden eggs.
this this this this this.
Quote from: axod on March 18, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Interesting. I wonder if the subject's sense of personal identity, responsibility and culpability could be maintained throughout, b/c you know how integrating disruptions in temporality can be to a person's social conformity... Really.
What?
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: axod on March 18, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Interesting. I wonder if the subject's sense of personal identity, responsibility and culpability could be maintained throughout, b/c you know how integrating disruptions in temporality can be to a person's social conformity... Really.
What?
He is talking, I believe, about the fact that experiences that disrupt a person's sense of elapsed time often go hand-in-hand with a psychological disconnect from both personal identity and society.
It's my suspicion that a person placed in what is effectively a sensory deprivation chamber will probably disconnect completely after just a few perceived days.
Quote from: Nigel on March 19, 2014, 02:51:56 PM
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: axod on March 18, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Interesting. I wonder if the subject's sense of personal identity, responsibility and culpability could be maintained throughout, b/c you know how integrating disruptions in temporality can be to a person's social conformity... Really.
What?
He is talking, I believe, about the fact that experiences that disrupt a person's sense of elapsed time often go hand-in-hand with a psychological disconnect from both personal identity and society.
It's my suspicion that a person placed in what is effectively a sensory deprivation chamber will probably disconnect completely after just a few perceived days.
Ah, thanks for the translation. That use of the word integrating confused me.
Turning criminals into comatose vegetables is one way of solving the recidivism problem.
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 05:46:06 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 19, 2014, 02:51:56 PM
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 11:29:17 AM
Quote from: axod on March 18, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Interesting. I wonder if the subject's sense of personal identity, responsibility and culpability could be maintained throughout, b/c you know how integrating disruptions in temporality can be to a person's social conformity... Really.
What?
He is talking, I believe, about the fact that experiences that disrupt a person's sense of elapsed time often go hand-in-hand with a psychological disconnect from both personal identity and society.
It's my suspicion that a person placed in what is effectively a sensory deprivation chamber will probably disconnect completely after just a few perceived days.
Ah, thanks for the translation. That use of the word integrating confused me.
In psychology, integration is a term that means basically the opposite of compartmentalization; it's the organization of all the different parts or aspects of a psychological and social identity into a cohesive and functional whole.
Quote
Turning criminals dissenters into comatose vegetables is one way of solving the recidivism backtalk problem.
FTFY
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 05:46:06 PM
Turning petitioners pensioners into comatose vegetables is one way of solving the history books problem.
Quote from: :regret: on March 19, 2014, 05:46:06 PM
Turning legislators into comatose vegetables is one way of solving the pornography problem.
I think we need to start a pension.
:lulz:
:lulz:
I want a drug that makes prisoners feel like they've only been in for 8 hours, but actually makes them serve 1000 years.
Not for any particular reason, mind. Just because.
Quote from: Cain on March 19, 2014, 08:31:31 PM
I want a drug that makes prisoners feel like they've only been in for 8 hours, but actually makes them serve 1000 years.
Not for any particular reason, mind. Just because.
Meth or any stimulant can help with that.
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
I'm with Celagoras.
I demand a LEGION of omnidisciplinary, multi-doctorate,
completely insane 10 year olds.
:lulz: Brilliant.
Whoa.
I know Kung fu.
[/matrix]
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 19, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
I'm with Celagoras.
I demand a LEGION of omnidisciplinary, multi-doctorate, completely insane 10 year olds.
Doesn't sound any worse than the school system we have now. :lulz:
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 19, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
I'm with Celagoras.
I demand a LEGION of omnidisciplinary, multi-doctorate, completely insane 10 year olds.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: I am imagining this technology in the hands of Little Orange.
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
Quote from: Cain on March 19, 2014, 08:31:31 PM
I want a drug that makes prisoners feel like they've only been in for 8 hours, but actually makes them serve 1000 years.
Not for any particular reason, mind. Just because.
That would actually be a better way of dealing with criminals. You take away all they love without doing something as unethical as slaughtering their friends and family. Also, in a thousand years the society will have changed so there is a small but real chance their behaviour will be acceptable then.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 20, 2014, 03:57:22 AM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 19, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
I'm with Celagoras.
I demand a LEGION of omnidisciplinary, multi-doctorate, completely insane 10 year olds.
Doesn't sound any worse than the school system we have now. :lulz:
Of course it is worse, it is the same horrible thing but more efficient. HorriblenessxEfficiency=More Horribleness
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 09:42:17 AM
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
Your hope for humanity is cute.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 09:42:17 AM
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
:lulz:
This cracks me up in a horrormirthy way...mainly because it's frighteningly plausible.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 09:42:17 AM
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
"This technology, if we got a grant to develop it, would enable incredible leaps and bounds in education and the human capacity for learning!"
"Ummm, education? We'll never get funding".
"Shit, you're right. Is there a way to use it to kill people? OH WAIT I KNOW we can propose a way to punish people harder!"
Quote from: Nigel on March 20, 2014, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 09:42:17 AM
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
"This technology, if we got a grant to develop it, would enable incredible leaps and bounds in education and the human capacity for learning!"
"Ummm, education? We'll never get funding".
"Shit, you're right. Is there a way to use it to kill people? OH WAIT I KNOW we can propose a way to punish people harder!"
:lulz: exactly!
I'm actually trying to find out whether this is actually being developed, or if it's one of those "theoretically, maybe" applications for technology that isn't even in development and is purely speculation.
FFS. Why are we even talking about this like it's a thing? Some punishment philosopher blogged about "maybe someday in the future".
QuotePhilosopher Rebecca Roache is in charge of a team of scholars focused upon the ways futuristic technologies might transform punishment.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/prisoners-could-serve-1000-year-sentence-in-85-hours-in-the-future-2014-3#ixzz2wWAJQzcZ
http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/08/enhanced-punishment-can-technology-make-life-sentences-longer/
Quote from: Nigel on March 20, 2014, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 20, 2014, 09:42:17 AM
Perhaps this is just a case of some highly pragmatic scientists trying to secure funding for development of tech that can teach you anything in a matter of seconds but realising that the establishment needs some totally retarded use-case in order to support it. :lulz:
"This technology, if we got a grant to develop it, would enable incredible leaps and bounds in education and the human capacity for learning!"
"Ummm, education? We'll never get funding".
"Shit, you're right. Is there a way to use it to kill people? OH WAIT I KNOW we can propose a way to punish people harder!"
"Little Timmy spilt his milk again"
"Well, you know our policy. Once is a mistake, twice gets you 100 years in the corner"
The more I consider this, the more I become certain that if available parents will use it to fuck kids up long before they even get into a school environment.
The thought also occurs that 1000 years is a fucking long time to plan something. If you tried this shit with an already dedicated criminal it could quite easily lead to some of the most spectacular crimes ever committed. Consider it. If you had 1000 years to plan something, I bet you'd figure out a way to do it.
Naturally, the implications in regards to terrorism are both hilarious and horrifying for these exact same reasons.
ETA - Thanks nigel, will shut up with idiot speculations.
Quote from: Nigel on March 20, 2014, 02:37:24 PM
FFS. Why are we even talking about this like it's a thing? Some punishment philosopher blogged about "maybe someday in the future".
QuotePhilosopher Rebecca Roache is in charge of a team of scholars focused upon the ways futuristic technologies might transform punishment.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/prisoners-could-serve-1000-year-sentence-in-85-hours-in-the-future-2014-3#ixzz2wWAJQzcZ
http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/08/enhanced-punishment-can-technology-make-life-sentences-longer/
Yeah, I'd kinda figured someone watched Total Recall and Demolition Man back to back then had a - tough on crime - wet dream all over their nice clean bet linen. :kingmeh:
Quote from: Nigel on March 20, 2014, 02:37:24 PM
FFS. Why are we even talking about this like it's a thing? Some punishment philosopher blogged about "maybe someday in the future".
QuotePhilosopher Rebecca Roache is in charge of a team of scholars focused upon the ways futuristic technologies might transform punishment.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/prisoners-could-serve-1000-year-sentence-in-85-hours-in-the-future-2014-3#ixzz2wWAJQzcZ
http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2013/08/enhanced-punishment-can-technology-make-life-sentences-longer/
I dig. FWIW, I did mention point out that it's hardly a scientific article in the OP. I thought the concept and approach was kind of an odd (albeit interesting take)
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Quote from: Sita on March 20, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
We were both wrong. It was the Argrathi. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(episode)
But yeah. Ahem. Dumb idea.
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Yup! For me it comes down to this luddite argument that X-new tech is badwrong because fucking idiots will use it to Y. To my mind this is rarely (if ever) an argument against scientific and technological progress as much as an argument against fucking idiots.
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
The fact that this chick dreamt it up in the first place points to her being a very disturbed individual.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Sita on March 20, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
We were both wrong. It was the Argrathi. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(episode)
But yeah. Ahem. Dumb idea.
Ah, yeah been a while since I saw that episode. But the Cards have done enough to him during the series it was easy to mix it up. Thanks for the link, btw. I shall now get hopelessly lost in the Trek wiki :lol:
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Sita on March 20, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
We were both wrong. It was the Argrathi. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(episode)
But yeah. Ahem. Dumb idea.
They prefer to be called the
rubberheadians.
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
If you're going to do it, do it right - implant the memory of 1000 years in hell
(http://images.amcnetworks.com/ifc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/080312-total-recall.jpg)
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 21, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
motherfuckin magnets, how do they work?
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 19, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 19, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Pæs on March 17, 2014, 10:32:14 PM
DEAR DOCTOR FUCKING MORON,
THE TECHNOLOGY YOU DESCRIBE GIVES US A PRACTICALLY UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF BRAIN POWER.
HOW'S ABOUT WE USE IT TO WORK OUT WAYS TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE WITHOUT PRISONS?
Like, just offa the top of my head, we could use this to teach things to students that would otherwise take months of time in a matter of weeks(new languages, history, classic literature) but nah, lets fuck with prisoners instead
I'm with Celagoras.
I demand a LEGION of omnidisciplinary, multi-doctorate, completely insane 10 year olds.
:notworthy::lulz:
Quote from: The Johnny on March 21, 2014, 06:44:43 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 21, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
motherfuckin magnets, how do they work?
Transcranial magnetic pulses (TCM) are one of the newest alternatives to electroshock therapy, the principle being that they can do the same job as electroshock without the possibility of giving you amnesia afterwards. Since your neurons fire when they're charged a certain way, they can use magnets instead of electricity to stimulate parts of the brain that arent working correctly
That's pretty trick, actually!
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 24, 2014, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on March 21, 2014, 06:44:43 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 21, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
motherfuckin magnets, how do they work?
Transcranial magnetic pulses (TCM) are one of the newest alternatives to electroshock therapy, the principle being that they can do the same job as electroshock without the possibility of giving you amnesia afterwards. Since your neurons fire when they're charged a certain way, they can use magnets instead of electricity to stimulate parts of the brain that arent working correctly
Interesting, ive always felt that electrical tampering with the brain would only equate to frying some "circuits".
Quote from: The Johnny on March 24, 2014, 09:03:34 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 24, 2014, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on March 21, 2014, 06:44:43 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 21, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
motherfuckin magnets, how do they work?
Transcranial magnetic pulses (TCM) are one of the newest alternatives to electroshock therapy, the principle being that they can do the same job as electroshock without the possibility of giving you amnesia afterwards. Since your neurons fire when they're charged a certain way, they can use magnets instead of electricity to stimulate parts of the brain that arent working correctly
Interesting, ive always felt that electrical tampering with the brain would only equate to frying some "circuits".
I am not a doctor, so I really don't know, but it seems to me that running a higher voltage and/or current through any system than the system was designed for cannot help but damage the system.
I'm neither a doctor or qualified in electricity but, for whatever my opinion is worth, I agree with you. I've fried processors, back in the old 486/jumper-voltages days and your controversial theory held true there as well.
Quote from: Sita on March 20, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
It was the Argrathi, (http://"http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(episode)") actually, (Villager and I watched that one on Sunday), and O'Brien was sentenced to 15 years for espionage that he wasn't guilty of, served 20 years because the guards "forgot" about him, and in real time it was only a matter of hours.
He was, however, brought on trial by the Cardassians for a separate reason. That reason being that scriptwriters like seeing O'Brien suffer.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: Sita on March 20, 2014, 11:26:58 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 20, 2014, 05:09:26 AM
The Romulans (I think) did that shit to Chief O'Brien in DS9 (I think). It did not end well and it turned out he was innocent, but batshit. I don't think real live science should be taking its cues from crazy aliens on TV. This is not what we call 'improvement' or 'progress'. It's what we call WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Only with more frothing.
It was the Cardassians. And yeah, O'Brien only served a small portion of that sentence and was a bit unstable when he got out. Can't imagine what someone would be like after the full time.
O'Brien really got the awful end of things on DS9.
We were both wrong. It was the Argrathi. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hard_Time_(episode)
But yeah. Ahem. Dumb idea.
Ah, you already caught that. Never mind.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 24, 2014, 09:33:21 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on March 24, 2014, 09:03:34 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 24, 2014, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on March 21, 2014, 06:44:43 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on March 21, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
Quote from: Pæs on March 20, 2014, 06:09:30 PM
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on March 20, 2014, 06:07:55 PM
I'm talking about it because I think the millienium old children is a story concept that practically writes itself!
This! The actual rationale for suggesting it is pretty weak. Like, "drugs make time slow down, let's isolate that property of drugs and work out how doses correspond to time" weak as far as I can tell. But that it was suggested is worth discussion, IMO, because it's a fucked up suggestion.
Technically, magnetic pulses to certain parts of the brain can also speed or slow our perception of time, which would probably do less damage then drugging up prisoners minds
motherfuckin magnets, how do they work?
Transcranial magnetic pulses (TCM) are one of the newest alternatives to electroshock therapy, the principle being that they can do the same job as electroshock without the possibility of giving you amnesia afterwards. Since your neurons fire when they're charged a certain way, they can use magnets instead of electricity to stimulate parts of the brain that arent working correctly
Interesting, ive always felt that electrical tampering with the brain would only equate to frying some "circuits".
I am not a doctor, so I really don't know, but it seems to me that running a higher voltage and/or current through any system than the system was designed for cannot help but damage the system.
Yea, there's a reason they only use it in very extreme cases(schizophrenia, catatonic depression, psychosis), and even then as a last resort. Back in the old days, they'd wire your whole brain up to electrical shocks to induce seizures(this was still safer than inducing them with high levels of drugs) because it was the only effective method to deal with schizophrenia. To be fair, the method has always been pretty effective, even back then, its the side effects that were a concern. Modern ECT puts the patients completely under so theres no pain, monitors your heart to avoid heart attacks, uses muscles relaxants so you don't actually flail about and hurt yourself, and doctors have been studying how to minimize the chance of amnesia (smaller shocks on focused areas of the brain) for decades. The scary parts are that ECT can cause retrograde/anterograde amnesia, plus doctors still aren't exactly sure WHY it works (its the biological equivalent of kicking your tv to fix the reception.) it just does.
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
True, but due the image of ECT in the media, due to films like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, people's perceptions of ECT tend to be associated with the severe and sometimes abusive methods it was meant to replace(repeated ducking in ice cold water, frontal lobotomies, drugging manic or disruptive patients till they can't do anything but stare and drool, etc.)
Quote from: Hoopla on March 27, 2014, 11:41:23 AM
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
She got her MD at the same place Jenny McCarthy got hers, right?
:lulz:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:44:07 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 27, 2014, 11:41:23 AM
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
She got her MD at the same place Jenny McCarthy got hers, right?
:lulz:
Search your feelings, you
know it to be true.
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:44:07 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 27, 2014, 11:41:23 AM
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
She got her MD at the same place Jenny McCarthy got hers, right?
:lulz:
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
:lulz:
I just shot hot coffee out of my nose.
:argh!:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:44:07 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 27, 2014, 11:41:23 AM
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
She got her MD at the same place Jenny McCarthy got hers, right?
:lulz:
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
:lulz:
I just shot hot coffee out of my nose.
:argh!:
:thanks:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 06:58:05 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 28, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 28, 2014, 04:44:07 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on March 27, 2014, 11:41:23 AM
From the research I've done, it was my understanding that there was never any pain associated with ECT. some people are huge proponents of it recently, including Carrie Fisher.
She got her MD at the same place Jenny McCarthy got hers, right?
:lulz:
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
:lulz:
I just shot hot coffee out of my nose.
:argh!:
I would have too, if I were having coffee right now.