Okay, so it was suggested in another thread here that there is a PD.COM norm.
Now, for me, it seems antithetical for Discordians to have a norm. But maybe it's because I'm apparently outside of the PD.COM norm that I don't understand the norm.
Anyhoo, let's do some defining and discussing in this thread.
If there is a pd.com norm, what is it? Why is it?
If there is a discordian norm, what is it? Why is it?
And do they intersect? Are they parallel? perpendicular? rhombus?
Whaddya think?
I don't think you can have a norm without a group.
"Discordians" is so vague it's hard to generalize about. According to my pope card, everybody in the world is a discordian already, it's just that most don't know it yet. We're at the deep end of the pool, but better Discordians aren't so serious about it.
If there are other groups of discordians out there, we can compare our norms to their norms.
for example, the portland oregon discordians have a bit more occulture - they tend to be more friendly towards magick arts.
I'm told that there are a number of anarchist discordians living together in Montreal.
I'm not part of any norm except my own.
which makes me abnormal, I guess.
There does tend to be a hive mind.
Cross post:
You have to admit, there are certain behaviors that would not get on well here.
A libertarian pagan social conservative would be extremely uncomfortable.
But the core principle remains true. Anyone is able to post anything they want (with exceptions). Anyone here is able to reply to that post in the manner they feel is appropriate (with exceptions).
Whatever "norm" that might exist is, for the most part, whatever the majority of responses happen to be.
This is not a perfect system, and has led to massive flame wars and multiple flounces, on all sides.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 01:32:06 PM
Okay, so it was suggested in another thread here that there is a PD.COM norm.
Now, for me, it seems antithetical for Discordians to have a norm. But maybe it's because I'm apparently outside of the PD.COM norm that I don't understand the norm.
Anyhoo, let's do some defining and discussing in this thread.
If there is a pd.com norm, what is it? Why is it?
If there is a discordian norm, what is it? Why is it?
And do they intersect? Are they parallel? perpendicular? rhombus?
Whaddya think?
I think PD.com is a tribe. It has tribal elders that guide a tribal mindset. Within that tribe are the ones who buck the norm, just like with any tribe.
Discordianism, though... doesn't have a norm. AKK is a Discordian, PED is a Discordian, I am and so is Dok Howl, Cramulus, RWHN and everyone else that says they are.
The Principia Discordia was written (for the most part) by the Joshua Norton Cabal. It was an expression of Discordianism as experienced by them. Some people take that brand of Discordianism verbatim, some take some of it and make up their own... and for some, they are Discordian by being the "Anti-Joshua Norton Cabal"....
But its all still Discordianism.
If you can look at the world and see order and disorder alike, if you can look at your own perceptions and see that sometimes they're right and many times they're probably wrong... if you can, at least sometimes, TYFS! then I think "Discordian" fits.
The Pinealist is as much a Discordian as the Prankster, but one of them won't likely be welcomed in this particular online community for better or worse.
Quote from: LMNO on June 04, 2010, 07:49:45 PM
Cross post:
You have to admit, there are certain behaviors that would not get on well here.
A libertarian pagan social conservative would be extremely uncomfortable.
But the core principle remains true. Anyone is able to post anything they want (with exceptions). Anyone here is able to reply to that post in the manner they feel is appropriate (with exceptions).
Whatever "norm" that might exist is, for the most part, whatever the majority of responses happen to be.
This is not a perfect system, and has led to massive flame wars and multiple flounces, on all sides.
It's a good point. It has been made clear that there are certain aspects of my personality that I should not post here, unless I feel like spending the next 60 days justifying and tapdancing. I tend to just keep that shit to myself now.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:05:34 PM
I think PD.com is a tribe. It has tribal elders that guide a tribal mindset.
Then it should be burned down and tossed in a swamp.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:05:34 PM
I think PD.com is a tribe. It has tribal elders that guide a tribal mindset.
Then it should be burned down and tossed in a swamp.
I remember when a lot of you came to MW. I watched all of you and interacted with several of you. It seemed there was a purpose disguised with a lot of fun and some serious topics. I came to realize the one underlying thing that repeated itself from all of you was that we each had our own brain. There was a great deal of encouragement for us to think on our own.
If I have fallen into the 'tribe' mentality please shoot me and throw my body in the hog pen.
I don't like to think we have a rigid social hierarchy. There are certain ideas and beliefs that get more lip service, just like any place humans talk, but what I think usually happens here is that ideas are not valued on principle here. They must have merit. Along with that, there is also the fact of a norm in the sense of "business as usual", and some things come from such a different angle that they cause a stir. These stirs can be good or bad. Take the Surprise Me, Eris! project. Business as usual, some weird stuff happen, then LMNO shows up with something that blows everyone away.
Then there's... Flame wars. Something unexpected gets said/misinterpreted, and suddenly the core user base is at each other's necks for weeks.
I take the good with the bad.
And I still say there's no baseline norm for the whole board. Maybe there is a norm on a per-thread basis, but that's because we have shit like Questions Only.
This forum does have a specific culture, I agree. There are things I like about it and things I don't; for instance, I don't often bring up any dabblings in the "occult" for fear of derision. At the same time, I usually have the feeling that most of the people here would have my back against any outside attacker... which is great. The flip side of that coin is that I feel that only a couple of people here would have my back against an inside attacker (even silently, letting me stand on my own but offering moral support), and for the rest... it entirely depends on how "popular" and established that inside attacker was. I have seen how the tide can ebb and flow. I think that is this forum's Achilles heel, the love of dogpiling and the element of status-seeking. There are people who gleefully conspire or try to conspire with others to "take down" a specific target when they think they can pull it off, to make them the bigger man. To deny it exists is to deny gravity; it is only a matter of quantifying it, not qualifying it.
There are people who feel the urge to jump into personal grudge matches, to take sides and make a conflict bigger than it needs to be. That might be all of us; I have certainly been guilty of that. There is an element of social climbing. We are all guilty of being that element.
In other words, as an online community, like all online communities, this is a tribe. It has weaknesses and strengths. It has silverbacks and challengers. It's not really about "Discordia", it's about people who identify as Discordian, or choose to associate with people who do. This community's greatest strength, in my opinion, is its creativity and collaboration. It's greatest weakness, in brief, is status-seeking expressed through attempts at exerting control; power over others.
I am not exempting myself from either the strengths or the weaknesses.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:05:34 PM
I think PD.com is a tribe. It has tribal elders that guide a tribal mindset.
Then it should be burned down and tossed in a swamp.
Do you disagree?
This place has been a tribe with tribal elders and and tribal traditions and tribal language etc etc etc ever since I've been here. As you've said many times, we're a bunch of primates... what do you expect?
But that's not antithetical to Discordianism. This is a Cabal, just like the Joshua Norton Cabal or the Great Googlie-Mooglie Cabal with their own elders and traditions and languages.
Me, personally (and obviously given the knock down/drag out fights I've been involved in) I think that there is a broad swath of "OK" in behavior. I can deal with PED cause she posts in one thread, I know what to expect if I go in that thread and if I'm not in the mood to read her posts... I don't go in that thread. It would be like going into the WOMP thrwad and whining about all the crappy MS Paint photos.
As far as I'm concerned, for me personally... unless someone is actively causing problems (see whatstheirname ASSBURGER with the red hair, or the poster that screamed we were all racists for using the term 'Niger' in the BIP graphic).
If we are not a tribe, if we don't have tribal rules, taboos, standards, elders etc etc etc then why are threads about (insert several topics here) always treated the same way? On other Discordian forums they get treated differently... there is a lot of crossover between Discordians and Libertarians, Discordians and Pagans, Discordians and Anarchists, Discordians and Dadaists, etc etc etc etc etc ad pukeium. (like ad naseum, but more to the point) It seems reasonable to conclude that the tribal elders of particular tribe/cabal/collection of monkeys have specific views on those topics and they are treated in that way.
And there's nothing wrong with that... its as normal as breathing... and while I like being abnormal, I also like breathing.
Recently I left for a few weeks to cool down mostly because I felt that half the board cared more about screaming than about expanding their perspectives... but I came to realize (particularly after reading your Five Pillars) that I was in the wrong... I can't expect this tribe to expand in directions that other Discordian tribes do, because this tribe is going its own way. The fault was mine, because I had an unrealistic expectation.
If you ever thought this wasn't a tribe, you've possibly been fooling yourself.
I know a lot has changed for those of us who've been around for awhile. I know I was in a completely different space 4 and 5 years ago, back when there was this wonderful, non-stop riffing going on in what became the BIP movement. For me, I had a lot less on my plate. I had one kid and I was in a job I hated, so I needed to come here for the philosophizing and ranting with LMNO, LHX, Mang, TGRR, Cain, ECH, etc., etc.,
The world has become harder since then. We're all older. Many of us have different and new and more responsibilities. But the problems are still there. I really want to tap that energy again, that we had a few years ago. And we clearly still have the minds and personalities to foster that kind of stuff. And it's not that we need everyone to get in on the same thing. That was one of the arguments we had back in those times. Those who were BIPing and those who weren't. But I think it does help to have that drive somewhere. Just kind of helps balance things I think. Or maybe not. I dunno.
It's monkeys all the way down.
Given that, I am questioning my life-long strategy, and wondering if my time wouldn't be better spent getting on with climbing over the backs of the monkeys ahead of me, instead of wanking to a fantasy of being in a different subgroup than the average "greyface".
Just to point out, there are pinealists here. I am a pinealist as well as a prankster; so is Cramulus, in my opinion. Yatto is certainly one! I am sleeping with a pinealist who, frankly, seems to just be free-associating much of the time and often doesn't make any sense unless you are so tapped into his thought processes that you can join his free-association stream (in which case, it tunes in just like a radio and you can understand what he's saying perfectly). Spouting random gibberish is not an effective form of pinealism, especially online; it's usually poseurism. Communication is really key when all you have to go by is the written word; my pinealist friend/lover is a superbly lucid writer, taking his tapped-in pinealism and translating it into something beautiful and accessible.
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:25:08 PM
I know a lot has changed for those of us who've been around for awhile. I know I was in a completely different space 4 and 5 years ago, back when there was this wonderful, non-stop riffing going on in what became the BIP movement. For me, I had a lot less on my plate. I had one kid and I was in a job I hated, so I needed to come here for the philosophizing and ranting with LMNO, LHX, Mang, TGRR, Cain, ECH, etc., etc.,
The world has become harder since then. We're all older. Many of us have different and new and more responsibilities. But the problems are still there. I really want to tap that energy again, that we had a few years ago. And we clearly still have the minds and personalities to foster that kind of stuff. And it's not that we need everyone to get in on the same thing. That was one of the arguments we had back in those times. Those who were BIPing and those who weren't. But I think it does help to have that drive somewhere. Just kind of helps balance things I think. Or maybe not. I dunno.
It was nice. It's over. At least, I have seen no evidence of it continuing.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:25:16 PM
It's monkeys all the way down.
Given that, I am questioning my life-long strategy, and wondering if my time wouldn't be better spent getting on with climbing over the backs of the monkeys ahead of me, instead of wanking to a fantasy of being in a different subgroup than the average "greyface".
Why not do both?
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
Just to point out, there are pinealists here. I am a pinealist as well as a prankster; so is Cramulus, in my opinion. Yatto is certainly one! I am sleeping with a pinealist who, frankly, seems to just be free-associating much of the time and often doesn't make any sense unless you are so tapped into his thought processes that you can join his free-association stream (in which case, it tunes in just like a radio and you can understand what he's saying perfectly). Spouting random gibberish is not an effective form of pinealism, especially online; it's usually poseurism. Communication is really key when all you have to go by is the written word; my pinealist friend/lover is a superbly lucid writer, taking his tapped-in pinealism and translating it into something beautiful and accessible.
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
I consider myself a Pinealist as well... but even well communicated pinealism is a rough road to play in the middle of here. ;-)
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Wait. We're hating on Hirley0, now? For what? Being a harmless old coot who never says anything to anyone?
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:29:25 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:25:16 PM
It's monkeys all the way down.
Given that, I am questioning my life-long strategy, and wondering if my time wouldn't be better spent getting on with climbing over the backs of the monkeys ahead of me, instead of wanking to a fantasy of being in a different subgroup than the average "greyface".
Why not do both?
Because one offers a benefit, and the other doesn't.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Wait. We're hating on Hirley0, now? For what? Being a harmless old coot who never says anything to anyone?
No. That's the point.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:29:25 PM
I consider myself a Pinealist as well...
I do as well.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:37:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Wait. We're hating on Hirley0, now? For what? Being a harmless old coot who never says anything to anyone?
No. That's the point.
Hirley makes no effort to collaborate, or - as far as I can tell - communicate. Most of his posts are "note to self". He's harmlessly using server space for whatever thoughts run on his personal wavelength, and discourages communication with others. He's a hermit, not a shit head like PED.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:37:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Wait. We're hating on Hirley0, now? For what? Being a harmless old coot who never says anything to anyone?
No. That's the point.
Hirley makes no effort to collaborate, or - as far as I can tell - communicate. Most of his posts are "note to self". He's harmlessly using server space for whatever thoughts run on his personal wavelength, and discourages communication with others. He's a hermit, not a shit head like PED.
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:41:43 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:37:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:36:06 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
Wait. We're hating on Hirley0, now? For what? Being a harmless old coot who never says anything to anyone?
No. That's the point.
Hirley makes no effort to collaborate, or - as far as I can tell - communicate. Most of his posts are "note to self". He's harmlessly using server space for whatever thoughts run on his personal wavelength, and discourages communication with others. He's a hermit, not a shit head like PED.
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
Her whole thread was either gibberish or hostility.
When it was pointed out to her by many people here, recently, that all she had to do was be civil, she started moaning about how "she became a Discordian so she wouldn't have to fit in"...And by fitting in, she meant "be as nice to others as she'd like to be treated.
She calls us all fat and lame, but expects to be treated as a goddess because she posted some skanky pics?
Please.
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy civil medium?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy civil medium?
We told her how to receive civil behavior. She felt that being civil herself was too onerous, and distructive towards her individuality or some shit. She actually said so.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Fuck you, Rat. How did I treat her
before her first post?
Seriously, fuck you in the heart.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
That is such bullshit. Apparently we're not even reading the same thread. She posted her deliberately inflammatory OP, and UNLIKE almost everyone else, I decided to treat her questions as if they were earnest and answer them in kind... but nicely. She responded with hostility and contempt, and that's where I've been with her ever since.
Oh, and meanwhile she was PMing nudes of herself to various males on the forum, rounding up her white knight posse.
Well, she certainly accomplished what she set out to do.
And all she had to do was flash her tits and then whimper a little while later.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
That is such bullshit. Apparently we're not even reading the same thread. She posted her deliberately inflammatory OP, and UNLIKE almost everyone else, I decided to treat her questions as if they were earnest and answer them in kind... but nicely. She responded with hostility and contempt, and that's where I've been with her ever since.
Oh, and meanwhile she was PMing nudes of herself to various males on the forum, rounding up her white knight posse.
Do I really need to go and quote where you said you baited her? Please, can we at least be on the level here?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
It's all about actually making the effort to not be a dick, and to make yourself understandable. That's how online communication/collaboration works best.
hirley0
What about him? Is he a dick? No, he's a harmless crazy old man. If PED was just crazy, I'd ignore her. She initiated hostilities with me, and has consistently tried to insult people here. I don't like her, and guess what? You can't make me.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
That is such bullshit. Apparently we're not even reading the same thread. She posted her deliberately inflammatory OP, and UNLIKE almost everyone else, I decided to treat her questions as if they were earnest and answer them in kind... but nicely. She responded with hostility and contempt, and that's where I've been with her ever since.
Oh, and meanwhile she was PMing nudes of herself to various males on the forum, rounding up her white knight posse.
Do I really need to go and quote where you said you baited her? Please, can we at least be on the level here?
Go for it, champ. I posted that after nearly two years of her deliberate jabs at me... yeah, I started just baiting her for the fuck of it. I don't like her, she's a real asshole.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy civil medium?
Treat her however the hell you want.
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Fuck you, Rat. How did I treat her before her first post?
Seriously, fuck you in the heart.
I don't think that's safe... though I can send you a picture of me if you really want to.
I don't see anywhere in her first post where she mentioned you, you old egotistical bastard. But go on be offended and hurt cause someone said something mean... did you get sand in your vagina again?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
Yeah,
you do. I should have been more specific.
On the other hand, I've been told more than once here that I am somehow guilty of being the first prick in the situation, and that somehow my behavior AFTER her first post caused her first post. Never mind the fact that I did try to be nice to her for quite some time, a year ago, and got shat on for my troubles.
So I don't feel bad for smearing those who smeared me. You aren't included in that, and I apologize that it must have seemed that way.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Fuck you, Rat. How did I treat her before her first post?
Seriously, fuck you in the heart.
I don't think that's safe... though I can send you a picture of me if you really want to.
I don't see anywhere in her first post where she mentioned you, you old egotistical bastard. But go on be offended and hurt cause someone said something mean... did you get sand in your vagina again?
No, because I'm not a Subgenius or anything. Or a Discordian, right?
You ridiculous passive-aggressive buffoon.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 09:11:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Fuck you, Rat. How did I treat her before her first post?
Seriously, fuck you in the heart.
I don't think that's safe... though I can send you a picture of me if you really want to.
I don't see anywhere in her first post where she mentioned you, you old egotistical bastard. But go on be offended and hurt cause someone said something mean... did you get sand in your vagina again?
No, because I'm not a Subgenius or anything. Or a Discordian, right?
You ridiculous passive-aggressive buffoon.
QuoteMy question is simply this : Why "most" of the discordians (as far as as ive seen) are fatasses?
Another question : Why everybodys "mostly" fighting or replyin like fuckin 55year old virgins on the forums,instead of discussin or sharing different ideas..Discord is a beautiful thing and our lady wants us to be "perfect to ourselves and each other". rolleyes
Another : Whats up with this "real" discordians and "fake" discordians bull..
Lady Discordia doesnt accept loosers anyway,and takes care of em douches good,no need to waste our precious energy goddess gave us to be creative and have fun ehh?
Another one : How come the subgeniiii are soooo fuckin lame? What are they supposed to be? confused
5th question : Did you know if you eat carrots two weeks in a row,your skin color will turn orange? haw
Statement : I am the happiest namuh namow in the somsocorcam. lol
which bit?
*looks some more*
which?
*continues looking*
hrmmmm........
I'm Discordian AND Subgenuius and I'm not offended by any of that... but I forgot, I'm not the one with an ego made of sugar glass.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
I am judging HER motivation for sending those pics immediately after signing up, especially the way she followed it up with accusing me of being "jealous" (I didn't know about the pics, so I was :?) and later, the "ugly" comments. Paired with the opening comments about fat Discordians, it's apparent to me that she has a huge hangup about appearance and probably gets a great deal of her self-worth from being fawned over by men, which is really kind of sad. I suspect she assumes other women have the same issues. If she hadn't been such an asshole to me, deliberately, multiple times, when I was trying to be nice, I would have sympathy for her.
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 09:14:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 09:11:47 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:55:11 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on June 04, 2010, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:50:22 PM
She doesn't have to be treated like a goddess.
She doesn't have to be treated like a horrible racist.
I guess I'm making an appeal for some kind of happy medium?
I treat her the way she treated me. That's all I'm really wired to do, in normal circumstances.
I like you, RWHN, and I think you're a smart guy, but I also think that you happen to be incorrect on this particular issue.
The way she treated you? Damn Dok, you need to think about that statement....
Fuck you, Rat. How did I treat her before her first post?
Seriously, fuck you in the heart.
I don't think that's safe... though I can send you a picture of me if you really want to.
I don't see anywhere in her first post where she mentioned you, you old egotistical bastard. But go on be offended and hurt cause someone said something mean... did you get sand in your vagina again?
No, because I'm not a Subgenius or anything. Or a Discordian, right?
You ridiculous passive-aggressive buffoon.
QuoteMy question is simply this : Why "most" of the discordians (as far as as ive seen) are fatasses?
Another question : Why everybodys "mostly" fighting or replyin like fuckin 55year old virgins on the forums,instead of discussin or sharing different ideas..Discord is a beautiful thing and our lady wants us to be "perfect to ourselves and each other". rolleyes
Another : Whats up with this "real" discordians and "fake" discordians bull..
Lady Discordia doesnt accept loosers anyway,and takes care of em douches good,no need to waste our precious energy goddess gave us to be creative and have fun ehh?
Another one : How come the subgeniiii are soooo fuckin lame? What are they supposed to be? confused
5th question : Did you know if you eat carrots two weeks in a row,your skin color will turn orange? haw
Statement : I am the happiest namuh namow in the somsocorcam. lol
which bit?
*looks some more*
which?
*continues looking*
hrmmmm........
I'm Discordian AND Subgenuius and I'm not offended by any of that... but I forgot, I'm not the one with an ego made of sugar glass.
Okay, I tried to back off politely, in PED's thread. Apparently, you can't understand things in those terms.
FUCK. OFF.
Now, at risk of more nonsense being directed my way, may I suggest you talk to someone who doesn't hate your fucking guts? It might be more productive.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
I am judging HER motivation for sending those pics immediately after signing up, especially the way she followed it up with accusing me of being "jealous" (I didn't know about the pics, so I was :?) and later, the "ugly" comments. Paired with the opening comments about fat Discordians, it's apparent to me that she has a huge hangup about appearance and probably gets a great deal of her self-worth from being fawned over by men, which is really kind of sad. I suspect she assumes other women have the same issues. If she hadn't been such an asshole to me, deliberately, multiple times, when I was trying to be nice, I would have sympathy for her.
No, you were suggesting that all she had to do to get sympathy was "flash her tits", which suggests that those who gave her sympathy, or who have stood up for her in any way, are doing so because of said flashing. Or do you really not see how that criticism also criticizes those of us who've argued against how she's been treated?
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
You do, I don't... I'm a womanizer, a misogynist and ummm... a 14 year old apparently.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
I am judging HER motivation for sending those pics immediately after signing up, especially the way she followed it up with accusing me of being "jealous" (I didn't know about the pics, so I was :?) and later, the "ugly" comments. Paired with the opening comments about fat Discordians, it's apparent to me that she has a huge hangup about appearance and probably gets a great deal of her self-worth from being fawned over by men, which is really kind of sad. I suspect she assumes other women have the same issues. If she hadn't been such an asshole to me, deliberately, multiple times, when I was trying to be nice, I would have sympathy for her.
No, you were suggesting that all she had to do to get sympathy was "flash her tits", which suggests that those who gave her sympathy, or who have stood up for her in any way, are doing so because of said flashing. Or do you really not see how that criticism also criticizes those of us who've argued against how she's been treated?
Wait. I think it was me that said that.
:popcorn:
Quote from: Pēleus on June 04, 2010, 11:18:37 PM
:popcorn:
or Korn Flakes :fap:
Yikes, anyhow. I don't identify as a Discordian - or anything, I'm fine with being branded as a Discordian. But, the label doesn't hold any meaning for me.
I do enjoy the culture, the ideas and many of the products. I don't know how to put it to words, I've always had trouble explaining my thoughts into words.
But the way I see it - Discordianism wants us to tap into that creative force that we once-had/have and use it with like the like minded, and possibly make things happen. I don't know, maybe most/some of us get this unrest that just starts driving us and we need to do something about it or risk becomming burnt out and over-life. If one outlet doesn't get fulfiled, then move onto another one.
As for the types of people? I don't know ... I don't think there is a Norm vs PD.com, perhaps just a different way the culture works - but if there was an established norm then I guess that'd be following the rules? Are there solid rules?
I was undecided about PED until she singled out two people with black avatars to call ugly.
It is highly, highly unlikely to be coincidental. The simplest explanation is that she is racist to some degree.
I hate that racist twats get away with their shit as long as it isn't overt.
You don't have to be a blatant nazi skinhead bleating "Heil Hitler" to engage in racism.
I think more often than not, it is in these indirect, insidious ways that racism is expressed, which is easy to rationalize away if you don't want to believe a person is racist.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
I am judging HER motivation for sending those pics immediately after signing up, especially the way she followed it up with accusing me of being "jealous" (I didn't know about the pics, so I was :?) and later, the "ugly" comments. Paired with the opening comments about fat Discordians, it's apparent to me that she has a huge hangup about appearance and probably gets a great deal of her self-worth from being fawned over by men, which is really kind of sad. I suspect she assumes other women have the same issues. If she hadn't been such an asshole to me, deliberately, multiple times, when I was trying to be nice, I would have sympathy for her.
No, you were suggesting that all she had to do to get sympathy was "flash her tits", which suggests that those who gave her sympathy, or who have stood up for her in any way, are doing so because of said flashing. Or do you really not see how that criticism also criticizes those of us who've argued against how she's been treated?
WOW, your mind-reading powers are SO AWESOME!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 04, 2010, 09:23:54 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
You both do realize it is kind of insulting to suggest those of us who are defending her treatment are doing so because of some nude pictures, right? Look, we can argue the merits of this but I know damn well I deserve more respect than that.
I am judging HER motivation for sending those pics immediately after signing up, especially the way she followed it up with accusing me of being "jealous" (I didn't know about the pics, so I was :?) and later, the "ugly" comments. Paired with the opening comments about fat Discordians, it's apparent to me that she has a huge hangup about appearance and probably gets a great deal of her self-worth from being fawned over by men, which is really kind of sad. I suspect she assumes other women have the same issues. If she hadn't been such an asshole to me, deliberately, multiple times, when I was trying to be nice, I would have sympathy for her.
No, you were suggesting that all she had to do to get sympathy was "flash her tits", which suggests that those who gave her sympathy, or who have stood up for her in any way, are doing so because of said flashing. Or do you really not see how that criticism also criticizes those of us who've argued against how she's been treated?
Wait. I think it was me that said that.
Yeah, it was. But that doesn't matter; the point is to demonize someone for Being Mean to an Innocent Creature.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
That is such bullshit. Apparently we're not even reading the same thread. She posted her deliberately inflammatory OP, and UNLIKE almost everyone else, I decided to treat her questions as if they were earnest and answer them in kind... but nicely. She responded with hostility and contempt, and that's where I've been with her ever since.
Oh, and meanwhile she was PMing nudes of herself to various males on the forum, rounding up her white knight posse.
Quote from: 6 Feet of Sole on June 06, 2010, 06:08:49 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 04, 2010, 09:02:22 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on June 04, 2010, 08:42:55 PM
PED has been mostly harmless outside of her initial entrance, until, as Nigel admits herself, PED was baited into hostilities.
That is such bullshit. Apparently we're not even reading the same thread. She posted her deliberately inflammatory OP, and UNLIKE almost everyone else, I decided to treat her questions as if they were earnest and answer them in kind... but nicely. She responded with hostility and contempt, and that's where I've been with her ever since.
Oh, and meanwhile she was PMing nudes of herself to various males on the forum, rounding up her white knight posse.
FFS. The implication is that it was her intent, not that it was successful. Stop trying to find what I did not say.
AND I do think she got some extra leeway out of it early on, which I said outright, but what you are Lo5ing my posts for seems to be a direct accusation that YOU are in her pocket because of her tits, and that is not what I'm saying.
Also, I think that is nothing more than a diversion from the fact that I have perfectly valid reasons for not liking her, and it's not your problem. Ratatosk mentioned honesty, earlier; I have been practicing it in this thread, your accusations to the contrary.
:noob:
If I had been here and read her first post in this thread this would have been my comment. Tits or no tits.
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 06, 2010, 07:55:50 PM
AND I do think she got some extra leeway out of it early on, which I said outright, but what you are Lo5ing my posts for seems to be a direct accusation that YOU are in her pocket because of her tits, and that is not what I'm saying.
Also, I think that is nothing more than a diversion from the fact that I have perfectly valid reasons for not liking her, and it's not your problem. Ratatosk mentioned honesty, earlier; I have been practicing it in this thread, your accusations to the contrary.
You always have perfectly valid reasons when you get into a pissing match with someone.
PED has been nothing but hostile and intentionally insulting to this forum in general and to several people here specifically, and started that behavior immediately upon arriving, with no prior provocation. She has also contributed absolutely nothing of any redeeming value at all to this forum, unless you count the nudie pics, which are decent but nothing special. I'm really not sure why anyone would be defending her against a group of people who have been, for the most part, uncharacteristically patient with her before returning the hostility that she's been dishing out the whole time.
Quote from: 6 Feet of Sole on June 06, 2010, 08:14:59 PM
Quote from: The Lord and Lady Omnibus Fuck on June 06, 2010, 07:55:50 PM
AND I do think she got some extra leeway out of it early on, which I said outright, but what you are Lo5ing my posts for seems to be a direct accusation that YOU are in her pocket because of her tits, and that is not what I'm saying.
Also, I think that is nothing more than a diversion from the fact that I have perfectly valid reasons for not liking her, and it's not your problem. Ratatosk mentioned honesty, earlier; I have been practicing it in this thread, your accusations to the contrary.
You always have perfectly valid reasons when you get into a pissing match with someone.
Who pissed in your Wheaties? It seems evident that you are looking for a fight. Sorry; I'm not your man.
OP: If you want to talk about the PDCOM norm, it's blowups like this.
This thread is a great argument for a separate 10k+ post only subforum... this shit is embarrassing. At least in the flamefests between newbs and more established members I can't hear relationships cracking apart.
FFS, people, you are conducting a conversation on the internet. You are in control of the stressers around you; you can go read a relaxing book, get some exercise, watch a favorite TV show, take a nap, and then if you still think it's important enough, come back to this thread later.
Another thread dissecting the forum instead of just experiencing it?
maybe your sig best describes it
and I don't know what it is
Okay. So let's forget it then. No problems.
Quote from: 6 Feet of Sole on June 07, 2010, 01:00:10 PM
Okay. So let's forget it then. No problems.
Sorry there was no offence intended, Its just we do seem to spend a good week of every month analysing some component of the forum dynamic.
Its not necessarily a bad thing, I'm just not up for it.
cross post!
Quote from: vexati0n on June 07, 2010, 03:50:14 AM
For what it's worth...
Yes there is a "norm" here at pdcom. It's inescapable that any community frequented by the same group of people for a lot of years develops its own culture. Like anywhere else, this community has a set of moral, intellectual, comedic, and other standards. That's not to say that our standards are inherently superior or inferior to any other set of standards, it's just one of the things that distinguish this group from any other group. These standards are what attracts certain people to pdcom, they are what we expect to see when we get here, and they are the reason we keep coming back. To think that just because this is a "Discordian" site, we should be somehow immune to the natural laws of community that have existed ever since the first time two cavemen ganged up on a woolly mammoth is kinda ridiculous, in my opinion.
People here are protective of this community. In the first place, it's rare to find a group of people online or off that is as high-quality, productive, helpful, and insightful as the pdcom membership. Even when it sucks around here, it's still more entertaining and enlightening in my opinion than any other place I've found. Maybe that's just because we have a unique brand of BS that appeals to me, but I don't care. I like it here, and I don't want to see this place devolve into just another interwebs forum. I'd feel an actual loss, not just because I'd have to go look for somewhere else to waste my time, but because the kind of things we produce here are worth wasting time on.
Sometimes the flaming gets a little hot. But there are plenty of people who survive it, and I'd rather have a little potential value scared off than just open the floodgates and have pdcom drown in the inevitable shitstorm of fluff and bullshit that would surely follow. Part of what makes Discordia Discordia is that it expects something of a person. It isn't enough just to spout Dadaist crap all day long and pass yourself off as Outlandish. And I want to keep it that way.
It is what it is. I guess I'm a proponent of a more "big-tent" community, and perhaps that is what puts me out of this norm. And I am biased by my work which is all about building community. I just think we've talked for years about branching out. The whole point of Intermittens, POEEcasts, the BIP pamphlets, GASMs, etc., was about spreading what we are doing to other Discordians and other individuals ready to think and talk about this stuff. The implication, of course, is that we are open to these individuals coming here to further discussions and conversations.
So where I am coming from, is that it is hard for this site to have that kind of goal and then engage in extreme combativeness when people do come, when they don't live up to some collective ideal. So if the above are no longer goals of this community, fine, then case closed. However, if we do still hold to some of these values, I think we, as a community, should think about how we treat others when they do arrive. I am not suggesting when someone comes in with questions that are making generalizations that we don't engage them in a debate, and that we do not question their generalizations. We've done that before (Laz). But I think it is quite a step beyond when that debate gets driven into an ugliness like we saw in the PED thread where someone is being labled a Nazi and racist. Speaking as someone who has been a part of the community for 5 years, I don't feel it speaks well for our community and does not promote the openness to our community we have espoused. But, again, if that is no longer a value of our community, the questions are moot and we can just forget it and move on.
On the other hand, I don't think the goal of Intermittens or the BIP or GASMs was to invite people in here so they can be welcome and contribute to whatever conversations we have going on, regardless of how productive they are to those conversations. Sure we want people to check out the community, and they do. And many of them stay. It's really up to them. Even somebody like PED isn't completely written off. Fuck, if AKK showed up again one day and started being constructive in a genuine sense, even he would eventually become accepted.
This is just the same old "elitism" argument that pops up in every Interwebs community. And yeah, there's a fair amount of elitism at pdcom. Some of it is the wrong kind, most of it is the right kind, where a person is valued for what the contribute, not who they are. In PED's case it became clear fairly early on she wasn't going to be very constructive around here so she passed from 'member' to 'toy' and things degenerated from there. People would pop in here, eventually, just to abuse her because she would reply. That's what she made herself. She made that choice.
PDcom is pretty harsh toward new people, but I don't think we cross the line into "unfair" until a person has made it abundantly clear that they're not interested in ever becoming a part of this community in the first place.
Personally, I think the labelling of PED as a Nazi/racist crossed into unfair territory. Honestly, if that hadn't happened, I probably would not have invested as much time into this as I have. It's one thing to call someone stupid, idiotic, unintelligible, etc., etc., sticks and stones.
But when you get into Nazi/racist territory you are getting into terms that are very loaded. I mean, look at how defensive (justifiably btw) we got when Lamanite went there all because we used the Latin word for black on our BIP materials.
If calling someone a Nazi on the internet is suddenly a problem, well, I guess the ENTIRE FUCKING INTERNET is pretty well fucked.
On a more positive note, I'd like to point out that having people here who take the attitude toward this sort of thing that RWHN takes is a good thing. Even if 99% of us decide that we disagree with what he's saying ITT, it is at least forcing us to think about what we're thinking and saying and evaluate whether or not it's what we REALLY think (in this case, I really do think that PED is a puerile and uninteresting twat who has displayed some behaviors that cause me to think that, whether she's aware of it herself or not, she has some race-based issues) or whether we're just repeating the party line by rote, as it were.
So RWHN, I may totally disagree with you and argue the shit out of the point with you, but I'm glad you're here to make that happen.
As for the whole "norm" thing? I think that's a really relative term, and a loaded one that obviously is going to push buttons. I also think that regardless of where most of us fall in terms of the "norm" here (a term that I am using VERY loosely), we still have way more in common with each other than we do with the people who aren't part of this community, and it behooves us to remember that once in a while. We may be a team full of bickering assholes who will stab someone over the most pedantic point imaginable, but we're still all on the team.
Quote from: Exit City Hustle on June 07, 2010, 03:42:26 PM
As for the whole "norm" thing? I think that's a really relative term, and a loaded one that obviously is going to push buttons. I also think that regardless of where most of us fall in terms of the "norm" here (a term that I am using VERY loosely), we still have way more in common with each other than we do with the people who aren't part of this community, and it behooves us to remember that once in a while. We may be a team full of bickering assholes who will stab someone over the most pedantic point imaginable, but we're still all on the team.
QFT! It's a tired old cliché but most of you fucking weirdos are "on my wavelength" in a way that only a handful of IRL people are. After years of being an outsider, pissing in the mainstream and bucking the norm to the point where I do it automatically on instinct now, I guess finding this place and the whole "fitting in" thing sets off alarm bells even if it seems to be true.
I think both ECH and RWHN are saying good things.
It's also good to see that even if there's disagreement, there's some modicum of respect as well.
Quote from: LMNO on June 07, 2010, 04:16:55 PM
I think both ECH and RWHN are saying good things.
It's also good to see that even if there's disagreement, there's some modicum of respect as well.
I concur. I don't think that having a Norm is necessarily bad... it seems inevitable... but its good to poke it with a stick and see what evolves.
I was thinking about this, and I came to the conclusion that it's easier to say that the "PD norm" is made up of things we do not want to see posted.
That is, if we collected the various trolls and flamebait from our archives, we could say that our "norm" is anything that isn't that.
In other words, we don't behave like, "you must do this to be part of the group," but rather, "if you do that, you're gonna have a tough time here."
That's pretty fucking astute! Also struck me a bit counter-intuitive. I'd always figured "thou shalt not" was worse in principle than "thou shalt" but I guess the former leaves the door open for creativity and inventiveness where the latter leads straight to conformity.
Quote from: LMNO on June 07, 2010, 04:16:55 PM
I think both ECH and RWHN are saying good things.
It's also good to see that even if there's disagreement, there's some modicum of respect as well.
And this is my whole trip. It seems like the world is full of shit on a daily basis. Between people acting like assholes and shit blowing up because of something people did or forgot to do. Discordianism, and this place, offered me something of a refuge from that. Not a true refuge, because the shit is still there. But finding some individuals who at least share the ideal that, yeah, there is some fucked up stuff going on right now and having a perspective that delves a bit deeper into what sorts of things cause all of these problems. And as new folks arrive, I would imagine it is a similar revelation.
Some make more graceful entrances than others. Some come with the purpose to contribute, a few come with the purpose to disrupt, and then there are a bunch who just come to be. I guess since I took on my new gig, and since my boy arrived in a rather traumatic and scary manner, my perspective has shifted a bit. The negativity that tends to bubble up here from time to time I had largely been able to ignore. Now it's different. I guess I'm more about finding the light now. Perhaps this puts me in the 1% now. But, it is where I am right now.
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8679/pyramidofshit1.jpg) (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/pyramidofshit1.jpg/)