Has there ever been a moment in your life where music no longer mattered?
I kinda noticed it in the past couple of weeks. It was in Villager's car. Here's the thing, I'm a metalhead (with untapped flexibility because what you listen to inherently sucks) in his borderline mid-30s. Villager was born in 1984, so she is 30. Her next best friend who isn't me is in her mid twenties. She also, on an objective level, has poor taste in music. I say this as a musician, rather than an old dude. Her secret boyfriend seems to agree. Of course he would, he listens to, as she would put it, "angry white boy music" never mind that she listens to valium dosed white girl music. What does any of that mean? I don't care about the folk, I've played it for money and loved it. I don't care about the color of the skin of the musician, if you guitar, you guitar. I don't care if he or she is angry. If it's targeted to boys, I'm honestly not interested. There's a very good reason that I grew up in the 1990s and want to beat the whiny shit out of Jonathan Davis. He sucks. His band sucks. I didn't know at first, but I still figured it out before the year 2000.
I guess this is a defense of the get off my lawn, but a strange twist on it. You're welcome on my lawn, but stop pretending that your grass is greener Your music sucks as much as the music from my era that I now recognize as sucky.
The difference is, I'm willing to give your music a shake. A fair shake.
I'm just not going to give it a free pass. I may be older. But I'm going to put myself in that position of listening to it as a 13 year old and then fast forward myself 20 years.
There's a reason why a Twid likes a bit of Nirvana. It's not because Kurt was good. It's also not because Kurt was shitty (he had some chops, if you listen to Bleach). It's because Kurt happened to be at the right place at the right time. And I'm a better musician than him, so fuck his ashes. So I like crap music from the 90s. That's a challenge. I'll listen to it one way or the other. Most of it is going to suck, much like most of what I liked back in the day also sucked. What's going to stay though? What are you listening to that you'll still be listening to in 2030? Because that's the kinda shit that you're listening to now that I want to hear.
I meandered off of the point.
Probably the most telling was that when I ride shotgun, sometimes I just ignore music. Entirely. I'm so used to Mandi taking shotgun and playing music that I dislike that when it's just me and Villager, Villager will go "way to stay on top of things, DJ" and I'll retort, "You want me to DJ? I'm so used to listening to music I don't care about here."
It's dumb, I guess, but there's a level of what do you want me to do? I don't know what you think sucks anymore.
I have no idea how to respond to this, other than to say, there is more music available from 1910-2013 than there is music from 2013-2014. Proportionally, there will be more songs that are good from the last century than from the last year.
Are you asking for music recommendations, or just sharing? I post music links a lot. I like a lot of new stuff because I have little patience for getting stuck in nostalgia traps.
You said it yourself, Twid, music doesn't have to be timeless, or have lasting power. It's a reflection of a huge number of influences, including one's own fleeting mood. It's also easier to recognize ten or more years after the fact what was really great musically and what was just great for its time. My age group listened to Blink 182 and Green Day and, yeah, Korn in the 90's. FOR FUCK'S SAKE I OWNED A LIMP BIZKIT ALBUM. I can't stand any of it now but that doesn't mean I loved it any less at the time.
I know you love music, Twid, because I know you. But this reads a lot less like loving music than it does loving loving music.
Some of my favorite shit in the last few years has been obnoxious electronica. Bloody Beetroots, Ki: theory, and Robert Delong. And surf rocky as hell Django Django. Will I be listening to them in five years? Hell, I don't know if I'll listen to them in one. But who cares?
Research on musical preference across ages strongly indicates that people prefer the music that was popular when they were between 15 and 30, and think that the music of the younger generations isn't as good.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 07, 2015, 03:04:43 AM
Research on musical preference across ages strongly indicates that people prefer the music that was popular when they were between 15 and 30, and think that the music of the younger generations isn't as good.
Yeah, this.
Here. I wrote this song for you:
http://youtu.be/kmmPFrkuPq0
i've developed a strong distaste for classic rock - not because it sucks - there's some really great classic rock music.
but, because any job i've ever had where there was a radio - classic rock is what was on that radio. i now strongly associate classic rock with being at work.
has anyone else experienced this?
Quote from: rong on January 07, 2015, 06:38:29 AM
i've developed a strong distaste for classic rock - not because it sucks - there's some really great classic rock music.
but, because any job i've ever had where there was a radio - classic rock is what was on that radio. i now strongly associate classic rock with being at work.
has anyone else experienced this?
Total classical conditioning, where you come to associate a neutral or even pleasant stimulus with an unpleasant stimulus.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on January 07, 2015, 02:35:46 AM
Are you asking for music recommendations, or just sharing? I post music links a lot. I like a lot of new stuff because I have little patience for getting stuck in nostalgia traps.
This was more of a rant that I was trying to push through a sheet of champagnoise. It's been kinda rattling around in my head a bit.
Quote from: rong on January 07, 2015, 06:38:29 AM
i've developed a strong distaste for classic rock - not because it sucks - there's some really great classic rock music.
but, because any job i've ever had where there was a radio - classic rock is what was on that radio. i now strongly associate classic rock with being at work.
has anyone else experienced this?
I hate Weird Al because of a long car trip where the musical options given to us were Weird Al and Korean techno.
I'd probably pick Weird Al too.
What I got from the OP was that there is crappy music from all times but Twid was was willing to give the new music a fair shake, implying that Villager's best friend was not.
I would agree that shitty music is made at all times, I was not a big fan of most music from the 90s while that decade was transpiring. I'm more forgiving to a lot of it now, but at the time I listened to music which was, on average, 30 years older.
There must be teens doin he same today, but it often seems like he current young generation has a distinct lack of interest in the musical past. Or maybe those ones are just the loudest on social media... the recent Kanye/Paul Macartney thing is the most recent example. When I was a teen, it seemed like me and my friends would never admit to having not heard of something from the 60s or early 70s. We always wanted to seem older and smarter than we were.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 07, 2015, 04:16:04 PM
I'd probably pick Weird Al too.
What I got from the OP was that there is crappy music from all times but Twid was was willing to give the new music a fair shake, implying that Villager's best friend was not.
I would agree that shitty music is made at all times, I was not a big fan of most music from the 90s while that decade was transpiring. I'm more forgiving to a lot of it now, but at the time I listened to music which was, on average, 30 years older.
There must be teens doin he same today, but it often seems like he current young generation has a distinct lack of interest in the musical past. Or maybe those ones are just the loudest on social media... the recent Kanye/Paul Macartney thing is the most recent example. When I was a teen, it seemed like me and my friends would never admit to having not heard of something from the 60s or early 70s. We always wanted to seem older and smarter than we were.
Mine listen to all kinds of random shit, including stuff from the 80's that I hate. Mostly I just make a point of not telling them when I hate their music, because I've spent enough time around music snobs that I loathe being told that my tastes are "bad" and don't want to impose my opinions on their enjoyment.
The most important thing is that "Hotel California" by the Eagles and "The Joker" by the Steve Miller Band are the worst songs. It's all uphill from there.
Pretty sure this whole post is Twid's passive-aggressive way of calling me out for being a Journey fan.
Real classy, Twid...real classy.
I have no love for "indie" music.
Also you're a ok dude Twid in my book for hating Sublime.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 07, 2015, 04:16:04 PM
I'd probably pick Weird Al too.
What I got from the OP was that there is crappy music from all times but Twid was was willing to give the new music a fair shake, implying that Villager's best friend was not.
That's a big part of it, yes. You're touching on something that I still quite can't enunciate.
Another part is staying power, and enjoying novelty when it is done well.
Here's an example of a song that I feel very ambivalent about. On a purely combination of sounds level, I think "Sail" by Awolnation is awesome. I hate the lyrics though. Maybe you should kill yourself and blame it on your ADD? Um.... Yeah, have fun with that. But musically, it's really really interesting. It's different. It's got some good stuff there. So I listen to it when it comes on, and I go, cool.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on January 07, 2015, 09:59:19 PM
Pretty sure this whole post is Twid's passive-aggressive way of calling me out for being a Journey fan.
Real classy, Twid...real classy.
You're fine, as long as you don't karaoke it.
Quote from: Metal Bear on January 07, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
I have no love for "indie" music.
Also you're a ok dude Twid in my book for hating Sublime.
Well, the singers name was Brad. He wasn't lying when he said he didn't practice Santeria.
Quote from: Nepos twiddletonis on January 08, 2015, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 07, 2015, 04:16:04 PM
I'd probably pick Weird Al too.
What I got from the OP was that there is crappy music from all times but Twid was was willing to give the new music a fair shake, implying that Villager's best friend was not.
That's a big part of it, yes. You're touching on something that I still quite can't enunciate.
Another part is staying power, and enjoying novelty when it is done well.
Here's an example of a song that I feel very ambivalent about. On a purely combination of sounds level, I think "Sail" by Awolnation is awesome. I hate the lyrics though. Maybe you should kill yourself and blame it on your ADD? Um.... Yeah, have fun with that. But musically, it's really really interesting. It's different. It's got some good stuff there. So I listen to it when it comes on, and I go, cool.
I suppose it's that the young can be just as closed-minded about music as an old person. But they have a different rationale for it.
Quote from: Nepos twiddletonis on January 08, 2015, 03:58:18 AM
Quote from: Nepos twiddletonis on January 08, 2015, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 07, 2015, 04:16:04 PM
I'd probably pick Weird Al too.
What I got from the OP was that there is crappy music from all times but Twid was was willing to give the new music a fair shake, implying that Villager's best friend was not.
That's a big part of it, yes. You're touching on something that I still quite can't enunciate.
Another part is staying power, and enjoying novelty when it is done well.
Here's an example of a song that I feel very ambivalent about. On a purely combination of sounds level, I think "Sail" by Awolnation is awesome. I hate the lyrics though. Maybe you should kill yourself and blame it on your ADD? Um.... Yeah, have fun with that. But musically, it's really really interesting. It's different. It's got some good stuff there. So I listen to it when it comes on, and I go, cool.
I suppose it's that the young can be just as closed-minded about music as an old person. But they have a different rationale for it.
They can be.
Usually the ones who are close-minded when they're young are also hella close-minded about music when they're older, because it's a temperament thing. They also tend to unilaterally declare music they like "good" and music they don't like "bad", casting themselves in the role of objective, timeless experts who are qualified to make these determinations for everyone about an experience which is not only inherently subjective, but also heavily dependent on cultural experience and context.
Basically what I am saying is that there is next to nothing that is not (objectively) douchey about the original post. IMO. It does not, to me, read as a complaint that you often ride with a friend who monopolizes the music and won't let you play music you like. It reads as an elitist whine that this young tart has taste in music that you declare by your authoritay as a musician almost in your mid-thirties to be objectively shitty, instead of music that you declare by your authoritay as a musician almost in your mid-thirties to be objectively timeless. Further, you seem to be drawing a divide between musicians and non-musicians in terms of who has the right to declare music good and worth listening to, and adding an extra layer of ageism when you talk about music "standing the test of time". Essentially, you seem to be declaring non-musicians under 30 fundamentally incompetent with regards to their musical tastes.
There just seems to be no way I can slice this bullshit thin enough to find the beef.
A lot of competent musicians my age consider Pearl Jam to have objectively stood the test of time, Twid. Think about that.
I used to be an objective douche about music. I can still wear the hat, sometimes (Zappa). I think that changed with one simple life experience: I started hanging out with more gay people, and finding myself in clubs that play House Music, Disco, and the latest pop hits. And enjoying myself.
I still have preferences, of course. And I do have strong opinions about certain musicians. But these days, I can usually find something good in a piece of music, even if it's just the way it was recorded.
Except for the Eagles. Holy shit, that band is an enormous pile of suck.
Incidentally, what's "Valium White Girl Music"? Because it sounds really interesting. Do you mean like Lourde?
Fair points, Nigel. It does sound douchey.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 08, 2015, 01:14:21 PM
Incidentally, what's "Valium White Girl Music"? Because it sounds really interesting. Do you mean like Lourde?
Listening to Lourde now. Yeah, I think it counts. It was more meant to mock the idea of Angry White Boy Music.