...which is why, ITT, you try to talk me out of joining the National Guard.
GO!
Become a pishtaco instead. It's like the army, but you make your own hours.
I have heard here and there that Roger was in the military at some point.
I would like to hear his reasons.
As of myself, i wouldnt want to deal with grunts all day.
You'll just get kicked back out again. Unless I am reading your level of bullshit tolerance completely wrong.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 20, 2009, 10:26:29 PM
...which is why, ITT, you try to talk me out of joining the National Guard.
GO!
You need to be talked out of it?
I've been in a pretty shitty spot financially for a few years now, and I wouldn't even consider it (but that's just me, I suppose). Fighting war is the male version of prostitution, there are better ways to make ends meet but still keep a bit of your dignity.
i talked to a recruiter due to desperation last year, and i didn't get past the promise that i could serve here (at home) but the national guard wont guarantee the promise and you get stationed where they decide... you should talk to a recruiter even if its just for the LOLs, i might have considered it more seriously if i wasn't to old and married, the weird thing is when i was young and single i didn't have the ability to put up with the BS and the following orders, now i am old and married that doesn't seem to be the hard part for some reason....
Quote from: dimo on November 20, 2009, 11:56:35 PM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 20, 2009, 10:26:29 PM
...which is why, ITT, you try to talk me out of joining the National Guard.
GO!
You need to be talked out of it?
I've been in a pretty shitty spot financially for a few years now, and I wouldn't even consider it (but that's just me, I suppose). Fighting war is the male version of prostitution, there are better ways to make ends meet but still keep a bit of your dignity.
Like stripping!
How good are you with people on the phone, and medical terminology? My friend's work is looking for a coordinator. The coordinator talks to the families of the recently deceased and, well, coordinates cornea donation. It's not an easy job and it only pays $15-ish an hour, but it's work.
if someone wanted to pay me to take my clothes off, I'd be on it with a quickness. Hell, I usually do that for free.
also, as long as the families have previously agreed to the cornea donation and I'm not making cold-calls, I might be up for that. And if I'm not, the missus probably is.
she's totally down for it. I'm'a have her call you after we get back from Safeway.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 21, 2009, 01:45:55 AM
if someone wanted to pay me to take my clothes off, I'd be on it with a quickness. Hell, I usually do that for free.
also, as long as the families have previously agreed to the cornea donation and I'm not making cold-calls, I might be up for that. And if I'm not, the missus probably is.
I feel like there's a terrible pun in here, somewhere.
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on November 21, 2009, 02:15:46 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 21, 2009, 01:45:55 AM
if someone wanted to pay me to take my clothes off, I'd be on it with a quickness. Hell, I usually do that for free.
also, as long as the families have previously agreed to the cornea donation and I'm not making cold-calls, I might be up for that. And if I'm not, the missus probably is.
I feel like there's a terrible pun in here, somewhere.
I don't see it.
Quote from: FP on November 21, 2009, 02:20:08 AM
Quote from: Chief Uwachiquen on November 21, 2009, 02:15:46 AM
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 21, 2009, 01:45:55 AM
if someone wanted to pay me to take my clothes off, I'd be on it with a quickness. Hell, I usually do that for free.
also, as long as the families have previously agreed to the cornea donation and I'm not making cold-calls, I might be up for that. And if I'm not, the missus probably is.
I feel like there's a terrible pun in here, somewhere.
I don't see it.
Keep an eye out for it.
Its irissistable to point out that it isnt really a pun.
That doesn't mean that we can't be cornea 'bout it.
sheesh, and I figured it had something to do with taking your clothes off and being cold.
I was more referring to making cold calls to the families of the recently deceased. Somehow the phrase (And the actual act of making said cold call) seems kind of inappropriate, however amusing if you have a sick sense of humor.
I'm not going to lie. I wish I went into the USAF full-time after I got out of college. My loans would have been paid, I'd never run out of food or housing, and chances are I'd have been deployed a few times since then and banking on hazard pay. I'd also have been promoted to 1st Lieutenant by now and probably out of flight school and in control of a supersonic jet engine of my very own.
Of course, I'd have to deal with being a full-time airman, but sometimes sacrifices are necessary.
-Suu
Her ego is writing checks her body can't cash.
Does the near certainty that you would have been killing other human beings factor in any way in your decision?
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2009, 05:17:58 AM
Does the near certainty that you would have been killing other human beings factor in any way in your decision?
Or being killed by other human beings, it's a full-circle kinda deal. But if I had stayed in, I'm sure that my outlook on the whole situation would be a lot different than it is now.
Of course, the Air Force has been doing jack shit over there. They're sitting on base drinking bad Saudi beer and playing cards. I'd take $1000 a week to do that for 3 months. Sure.
If my knees weren't so fucked up now, I'd actually consider going ANG, because this little economic crisis isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And with my situation as dire as it was last summer (almost losing my apartment, eating nothing but ramen and spam and bacon-flavored spam...) I was willing to to reenlist. If RCH is considering the National Guard, I won't tell him that it's the right or wrong thing to do, but that's telling me he really needs the help.
Ok, the nominal point of any armed service is the killing whoever their Authority deems the Enemy. What the USAF "might" be doing really isn't the point. If you sign up for the armed services, you are signing up to kill whoever Authority tells you to kill.
not entirely sure how it works but some national guard jobs aren't necessarily killing, i was looking at warehouse specialist i cant get a guarantee that i wouldn't end up counting bullets and moving boxes in Iraq but i think (totally not positive) they wouldn't send you on patrol.... so you wouldn't be expected to kill unless your warehouse (or kitchen if you are a cook) came under attack...
I wouldn't be so sure on that one...One of my stepmother's friends joined up strictly as a medic. Once he got deployed, they handed him a rifle and sent him out on the front lines.
yes like i said "totally not sure".... they do own you, so you do what you are ordered to do, the possibility of being given a new career on the fly does exist...
i think they wouldn't want to do that to often, it would screw up logistics pretty bad, you would have to ask someone in the guard to find out if its common or not
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2009, 05:43:04 AM
Ok, the nominal point of any armed service is the killing whoever their Authority deems the Enemy. What the USAF "might" be doing really isn't the point. If you sign up for the armed services, you are signing up to kill whoever Authority tells you to kill.
That was the dealbreaker for me. If I can haz guns and bullets I want to kill indiscriminately damnit :argh!:
yeah, the killing part isn't a deal-breaker for me. as long as I'm reasonably well-compensated.
That said, I wouldn't be signing up for infantry so the odds of me being out in some desert shithole (that's not Eastern Oregon) with a rifle are pretty slim.
I was more interested in getting into one of the intelligence specialties.
As far as i know, "intelligence" gathering includes scouting.
Isnt that front lines? (Unless you are processing sensor info and not actually collecting it)
I was thinking more along the lines of being an intelligence analyst, though I doubt they'll want someone who gives realistic and honest assessments.
anyway, I don't really give much of a shit. Send me to some desert shithole and make me crawl around in the dirt spying on "enemies". It can't be worse than being broke and nearly hopeless, especially for someone who can pretend to be morally bankrupt as easily as I can. And if I did get deployed to a combat zone in a front-line capacity I'd quickly find opportunities for profiteering. War, after all, is good business.
I know in the UK military, intelligence rarely get put on the battlefield itself. Interrogation, signals analysis and research are the most common roles, and even at the tactical level you're more likely to be providing information for front line units than putting yourself on the front line.
Yeah, the main problem will be realistic assessments. The military prize conformity and ideologically correct answers well above and beyond, say, a major political party. The military may talk the talk on counterinsurgency for example, but actually do it successfully and...well, lets just say the lowest rated officer Special Forces officer in Afghanistan was the guy who reduced IED attacks and ambushes by the most in his area, and he got that rating because he had the fewest kills during his tour of duty. UNGH!
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 21, 2009, 11:00:44 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of being an intelligence analyst, though I doubt they'll want someone who gives realistic and honest assessments.
anyway, I don't really give much of a shit. Send me to some desert shithole and make me crawl around in the dirt spying on "enemies". not going to happen It can't be worse than being broke and nearly hopeless, especially for someone who can pretend to be morally bankrupt as easily as I can. And if I did get deployed to a combat zone will be at some point for between 6 and 12 months in a front-line capacity not likely, unless you really piss someone off and they make an exception just for you I'd quickly find opportunities for profiteering. War, after all, is good business. Get your hands on some beer and your golden(This is illegal but very profitable)
Depending on what type of analyst you want to be, the training is right around 5 or 6 months.
Quote from: Cain on November 21, 2009, 11:54:17 AM
I know in the UK military, intelligence rarely get put on the battlefield itself. Interrogation, signals analysis and research are the most common roles, and even at the tactical level you're more likely to be providing information for front line units than putting yourself on the front line.
Yeah, the main problem will be realistic assessments. The military prize conformity and ideologically correct answers well above and beyond, say, a major political party. The military may talk the talk on counterinsurgency for example, but actually do it successfully and...well, lets just say the lowest rated officer Special Forces officer in Afghanistan was the guy who reduced IED attacks and ambushes by the most in his area, and he got that rating because he had the fewest kills during his tour of duty. UNGH!
This
It's your decision and none of my business whether or not you join. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions. If you do, read every single line of everything you sign. If they promise you something,
get it in writing or they don't actually have to go through with it. I've had friends who didn't get a bonus because of shoddy paperwork.
I'd never trust the military to do anything, ever without having their arm twisted beforehand. Except maybe play kinky BDSM sex games with foreign prisoners. That one is always a good bet.
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2009, 05:43:04 AM
Ok, the nominal point of any armed service is the killing whoever their Authority deems the Enemy. What the USAF "might" be doing really isn't the point. If you sign up for the armed services, you are signing up to kill whoever Authority tells you to kill.
Wow, aren't you the hippie all of a sudden?
Yeah, it comes with the job description. But in the end they paid for a good chunk of my college, I had a paycheck THROUGH college, something I probably would NOT have had the chance to get, because the Florida Merit Scholarship doesn't cover summer sessions OR credits taken at private institutions. It also paid for my ankle surgeries, when I could have been severely fucked for a while.
I didn't join the Air Force to kill people, but I knew that one day it may have to have been. I joined the Air Force because at the time I was needing the benefits. Low and behold the reserves get shit on anyway, but I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything. I was in the best physical condition of my life, I made great friends, and I got to work in close-quarters with a long time passion of mine (fighter jets).
9-11-2001 I was locked down on base when my mom and I went on there to do some tax-free shopping bright and early. And there is no basic training or AIT in the world that will get you ready for the amount of fucking fear I had at that moment, being that, you know, I was on the grounds of USCENTCOM. There was suddenly no shortage of work I had to do though, not to mention knowing that 1300mi to the North I had 4 relatives die.
1-21-2003 I received my notice of discharge and on 8-16-2003 on my 21st birthday it was final. I was lucky to have not seen deployment, sure, as all my family says, but at the same time, I still sat on my ass for a few months after I moved to Rhode Island before I finished up with no job and could have gone and done something about it. Maybe it's a form of survivor's guilt. Maybe, that after I worked the Quonset Point Airshow as my last official drill, and went to Providence Place Mall afterward in my blues, and was then was approached by a small child that asked if I was a hero, and realized that I had nothing to say for it did I realize that it was all a waste of time for me. Others may say I got lucky, maybe I did, who knows...
Civilians can call me a killer all they want, blame it on the Authority, but as long as they're monkeys on this planet, there will be no shortage of flinging poo. It's a dirty job, but somebody has got to do it.
...With that said. I'm going to go dress up as a Sith Lord and an Imperial Royal Guard for the next couple days and scare children.
Later.
Apparently, after a couple of bottles of wine, my idealism fell out of my pants.
Join the Air Force or the Navy, you've got a much lower chance of being blown the fuck up. There are jobs in both that don't involve any killing at all and if you don't mind that sort of thing you can become a combat controller (which stands a high chance of killing a lot of people and getting blown the fuck up).
Since this is a "convince RCH" thread, I'm not surprised pacifism wasn't mentioned, but I think it ought to be. Killing people in exchange for money is about as low as humanity gets, and that's what being a soldier amounts to.
Quote from: Felix on November 21, 2009, 08:07:58 PM
Since this is a "convince RCH" thread, I'm not surprised pacifism wasn't mentioned, but I think it ought to be. Killing people in exchange for money is about as low as humanity gets, and that's what being a soldier amounts to.
Meh.
Quote from: Felix on November 21, 2009, 08:07:58 PM
Since this is a "convince RCH" thread, I'm not surprised pacifism wasn't mentioned, but I think it ought to be. Killing people in exchange for money is about as low as humanity gets, and that's what being a soldier amounts to.
I've been in the military for over 3 years and excluding
a day of shooting qualification I haven't touched a single weapon. I know for a fact that nothing I've done as a military member has ever resulted in the death or injury of a single person. It all depends on your job/mission.
That wasn't the point of the thread. It is RCH's choice whether or not he joins the military. Since he wants to be convinced not to join, I'll make a list of cons. They aren't in any specific order.
1. There is no guarantee that you will be stationed in a specific location. Even if you ask for the recruiter to put it in your contract, the closest thing they'll agree to is they will station you there unless the (Army, Navy, Air Force, etc.) needs you elsewhere.
2. You will be treated like shit, at least through training, and probably by any number of higher ranking people through out your time in service. You may or may not work with these individuals on a daily basis. Believe me, you get in trouble if you shoot off at the mouth.
3. Hours can suck. You could get a 0900-1700 or... you could get 16hr days 7 days a week. or 24hr shifts 3-4 days a week.
4. Chow hall food has no nutrients or flavor.
5. 0200 recall the day after the promotion list comes out. Or any other day your commander feels like it.
6. pt sucks when you're hungover. 5 mile run :vom:
7. Can't call in sick. You show up to sick call between 0630 and 0730 in uniform and wait to be seen by a doctor. Then you go home once the quarters slip makes it to your unit. At least where I'm stationed, by the time you get to go home you might as well have gone to work.
8. There is a good chance you could be put in a position where killing another human being is necessary.
9. You'll probably end up doing a job you weren't trained for at some point. You'll definitely be tasked to do something only higher ranking people are supposed to do. You'll have to pull things out of your ass to complete said tasker due to lack of supplies or not having enough people/time.
10. You can't quit. To get out of your contract you'd have to injure yourself permanently or do something that will make getting another desirable job very difficult.
There are more reasons. I know a lot of people who are completely miserable. Having said that, I absolutely love my job.
11. At some point, you may have to be deployed to Helmand Province, and trust your life to the morons who wrote this (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6919516.ece).
All i can say is dont do it! Become con artist instead.
keep in mind, I'm only thinking of joining the National Guard, not the regular Armed Forces.
and Kel, one of the attractive aspects of joining the military is the opportunity for profiteering and swindling should I end up being deployed overseas.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 20, 2009, 10:26:29 PM
...which is why, ITT, you try to talk me out of joining the National Guard.
GO!
Do what you gotta do to survive.
But you stand a fairly good chance these days of soaking up a bullet for Uncle Sugar.
TGRR,
Has a son enrolling in Army ROTC and doesn't know what the fuck to do about it.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 22, 2009, 01:00:48 AM
keep in mind, I'm only thinking of joining the National Guard, not the regular Armed Forces.
Doesn't matter.
Roger, did you get drafted? Where did you service?
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 02:14:03 PM
Roger, did you get drafted? Where did you service?
We didn't have a draft. I did 10 years in the US army, in the infantry. I'd still be there if I hadn't fucking broken my right knee.
You know, im curious about your experience in the military, stuff like your reasons to join, how many people you downed, which conflicts, etc... i havent run into people in the service or from it that i can have a conversation with...
Except my ex-junkie stepdad from Vietnam. But then again we didnt talk much.
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 02:25:12 PM
You know, im curious about your experience in the military, stuff like your reasons to join, how many people you downed, which conflicts, etc... i havent run into people in the service or from it that i can have a conversation with...
I joined because I wanted adventure. Adventure is a romantic term meaning "trouble, mosquitos, and misery". I did 10 years, I saw the world (specifically, the parts of the world that nobody wants, but that they fight over anyway), and I helped make the world safe for The Machine™. That's really all I want to say. If you really need further information, consult my thread "Hey, Lex, I have a story to tell you". Read through it, and then wait a few months or years while carrying loads of weight through a swamp, then read it again. When that's been done for 10 years, you'll understand my military experience.
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 02:26:08 PM
Except my ex-junkie stepdad from Vietnam. But then again we didnt talk much.
Wars have a way of making junkies. When you get hurt, they stuff you full of morphine. When you're better, they stop giving you the morphine, and then either return you to boredom, or terror, or just toss you out on the streets with no prospects. Then they bitch about drug abuse.
I'm probably giving the military WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for common sense but.....
You are a professional chef, it's a good probability that you'll end up in a kitchen somewhere.
Quote from: Khara on November 23, 2009, 04:28:14 PM
I'm probably giving the military WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for common sense but.....
You are a professional chef, it's a good probability that you'll end up in a kitchen somewhere.
1. Yes, you are. If he enlists as a cook, though, he'll get it.
2. That would be the very worst thing that could happen to RCH.
A chef becoming a cook in the army. Wasn't that in some famous war movie?
Quote from: Requia ☣ on November 23, 2009, 04:31:09 PM
A chef becoming a cook in the army. Wasn't that in some famous war movie?
Being a cook in the service would make RCH lose his goddamned mind.
"Hey, Spc Hustle, mix up another 55 gallon drum of mac n cheese."
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: Khara on November 23, 2009, 04:28:14 PM
I'm probably giving the military WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT for common sense but.....
You are a professional chef, it's a good probability that you'll end up in a kitchen somewhere.
1. Yes, you are. If he enlists as a cook, though, he'll get it.
2. That would be the very worst thing that could happen to RCH.
I agree, but..... It would likely keep him stateside.
I really can't think of a reason
to join any branch of the military at this point.
I'm not familiar enough with where you are now to make any decent suggestions....
Except DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY!!!!!! They never let you shoot the people who annoy you..... well on a regualr basis that is. You might get away with it once
I was thinking more the one about the military cook who takes on a battleship full of terrorists.
...with STEVEN SEGAL.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2009, 03:59:56 PM
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 02:25:12 PM
You know, im curious about your experience in the military, stuff like your reasons to join, how many people you downed, which conflicts, etc... i havent run into people in the service or from it that i can have a conversation with...
I joined because I wanted adventure. Adventure is a romantic term meaning "trouble, mosquitos, and misery". I did 10 years, I saw the world (specifically, the parts of the world that nobody wants, but that they fight over anyway), and I helped make the world safe for The Machine™. That's really all I want to say. If you really need further information, consult my thread "Hey, Lex, I have a story to tell you". Read through it, and then wait a few months or years while carrying loads of weight through a swamp, then read it again. When that's been done for 10 years, you'll understand my military experience.
Fuck, i appreciate you sharing that. Just imagining it i feel disturbed.
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 23, 2009, 03:59:56 PM
Quote from: JohNyx on November 23, 2009, 02:25:12 PM
You know, im curious about your experience in the military, stuff like your reasons to join, how many people you downed, which conflicts, etc... i havent run into people in the service or from it that i can have a conversation with...
I joined because I wanted adventure. Adventure is a romantic term meaning "trouble, mosquitos, and misery". I did 10 years, I saw the world (specifically, the parts of the world that nobody wants, but that they fight over anyway), and I helped make the world safe for The Machine™. That's really all I want to say. If you really need further information, consult my thread "Hey, Lex, I have a story to tell you". Read through it, and then wait a few months or years while carrying loads of weight through a swamp, then read it again. When that's been done for 10 years, you'll understand my military experience.
Fuck, i appreciate you sharing that. Just imagining it i feel disturbed.
You wouldn't be sane if you didn't.
yeah, the more I think about this the less inclined I am to go through with it. I'm thinking this will end up being my last resort if car prowling and pickpocketing don't work out.
However, all options are still on the table pending the results of my interviews today.
If you get a good job over there dude, let me know, because I may just move 3000 miles to work in your restaurant.
<---------- also teetering on the edge of moving to the left coast
if someone were to magically set me up with a sweet job and sweet apartment over there, I'd be like, "COOL I'M PACKING THE CAR NOW"
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2009, 02:02:39 PM
Apparently, after a couple of bottles of wine, my idealism fell out of my pants.
PICS?!
Quote from: Cramulus on November 23, 2009, 06:07:36 PM
<---------- also teetering on the edge of moving to the left coast
if someone were to magically set me up with a sweet job and sweet apartment over there, I'd be like, "COOL I'M PACKING THE CAR NOW"
I'll see what I can do in this beautiful city....with a 12% official unemployment rate (which, by my calculations, equals out to about 110,000 people competing with me for every job).
That said, it'd be more than awesome if Cram and/or Suu joined the "Discordians moving to PDX" bandwagon.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 23, 2009, 06:13:27 PM
That said, it'd be more than awesome if Cram and/or Suu joined the "Discordians moving to PDX" bandwagon.
You should all move down to Tucson, instead. We have everything you could ever want, here. Well, except for jobs, stuff to do, and things like that.
But we have LOADS of cops and robocops.
Fuck. I hate this place. If it weren't for my kids being in school, I'd be heading North as we speak.
Quote from: Rip City Hustle on November 23, 2009, 06:12:46 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on November 23, 2009, 06:07:36 PM
<---------- also teetering on the edge of moving to the left coast
if someone were to magically set me up with a sweet job and sweet apartment over there, I'd be like, "COOL I'M PACKING THE CAR NOW"
I'll see what I can do in this beautiful city....with a 12% official unemployment rate (which, by my calculations, equals out to about 110,000 people competing with me for every job).
Still lower than Rhode Island!
:banana:
Goddamnit I'm pissed we couldn't get a place in Vermont.
Quote from: Suu on November 23, 2009, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 21, 2009, 02:02:39 PM
Apparently, after a couple of bottles of wine, my idealism fell out of my pants.
PICS?!
Apologies, it crushed the photographer under it's massive weight of ++SMUG.