NOT unreality...not the lack of reality...but apart from reality, away from reality.
It's that point when, to all intents and purposes, there is a reversal of reality, you are taken from it, and placed instead in disreality. Where the surreal is the real. Where life is death, death is life. The not is, and the is never really has been.
And the disbelief in the disreality causes a lack of cognizance, a dissonance, with the center of being. So that there is an imbalance of proportion, and gaining back the fulcrum seems the impossiblest of tasks.
When you reach disreality, you wonder why it has to be, even while you know the very direct because it came into being. But you still question the necessitation of consequences, the necessitation of the action, the weight and counterweight to the scales. Off-center suits when you are in surreality or impracticality.
But the unrecognizable disreality brings pain, absence of control, horrifically dark feelings that swell and never subside. Disreality is the conjunction of all forces opposite that bring it all into lopsided focus, when you say goodbye to what was irrevocably known, and you enter the world eternal of the inconceivably unknown.
Is it like this?
My OBNOXIOUS JERK CABAL was born, in part, when a bunch of my friends spent long periods of time being very very sarcastic assholes to each other. After months of being perpetually sarcastic, we actually experienced a cognitive flip. It was a prime example of language sculpting reality. My cabal-mate Squire Candyass called it the "terrible/awesome" phase.
"So I failed my Junior Seminar class."
"That's awesome!"
".... yeah, it is awesome! How'd you do on your chem final?"
"I aced it."
"Oh, that sucks. You want a beer?"
We'd get really excited about injuries and illnesses, and really depressed about good weather. It was a supremely weird period because somebody would leap out from behind a bush and slash you with a kitchen knife and you'd thank them. Someone got sick and threw up all over the living room and you'd high five them as you hauled out the mop. I remember scrubbing a floor with a grin, saying "I fucking love cleaning up puke!" and sort of meant it. That kind of shit was happening nonstop.
After months of this, we had to make a collective reality check. We found ourselves unable to communicate with others because our sense of humor was so far out of whack. That's just the tip of the ice berg, but suffice to say that in hindsight, I can only describe that period as disreality.
Copious use of hallucinogens, of course, made the period that much more bizarre and personally significant.
'zat what you mean?
Yes, it's Alice in Wonderland meets Alice in Chains.
Operation mindfuck. When I first encountered the phrase it was something you did to yourself. On purpose you'd alter your whole approach to life, your belief structure, your mental and emotional reactions to things, derail your train of thought at every available opportunity. Kind like roleplaying but with much greater intent and intensity.
Objective is to allow you to see, by deconstruction, just how much of your world is actually nothing more than some bullshit your head created to represent it.
I totally fucked myself up on this. Massive time. Second time I ended up in mental hospital operation mindfuck was the single initiating factor. I did it to myself. By this point I had been in the void, that terrifying place where even you, yourself do not exist. I'd gazed on absofuckinglutely nothing, through eyes that weren't there and after that it was the only thing that made sense.
Crowley says - 'nothing exists and is all things'
I know where he was coming from.
Yep. It took my dad going to jail for me to see how easily one little thread holds the whole illusiary world together. After that, patterns don't exist, and life as you'd always known it, within and without, just dissolves.
And this happens in every scenario--going out to get the mail, driving your kids to school, etc. etc.
And the dysphoria...shit...that is what drives the nailhead home.
That's what I hate about chaos. The cursed damnation of it all when the world inverts. Only happened to me a couple of times when I was dabbling in methamphetamines, but it left a lifelong scar. Literally. You can't see it anymore because I got a black sun heart tattoo over it, but I tried to impale myself. A wooden stake through the heart. I coulda just jumped off a building or bought a gun, but I was in a zone where I wanted to go out and for some reason I wanted people to know why, and believe me. I guess I coulda just wrote a note, but I was so psychotic at the time that could barely control myself. Of course it would have only made a ripple effect of sorrow and chaos had I succeeded, and did anyway, but now that I'm back to some semblance of sanity with a quasi-illusive dash of life and love, I can repair some of the grief I instilled in those around me. It was as vampiric as it gets without actually turning into a bat. Nothing mattered and there was no love in me. No reflection. Empty, hollow heart. Ghost in a body. But, best not to dwell in Tartarus too long, unless it gets funnier than this (funny that it always does around here). Chaos magic really can be bad shit, though it can also effect mental healing. Double edged blade that. Anyways, back to getting my life in order amidst great and terrible chaos. When Eris rolls apples, make cookies and pie.
Scientific Fact: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Unless LSD really sucks, I find that hard to believe.
No, your brain just freaks the fuck out. I read this in Psychology Today, but haven't tried it.
Trust me, I've been awake days at a time. Apart from spiders out of the corner of your eyes, there is nothing.
Well, unless I had some rather weak acid (a definite possibility) I'd say the visual aspect of both LSD and sleep deprivation past, oh 40ish hours straight will produce remarkably similar visual effects. Although acid never really did much for me visually (slight "walls breathing" and minor color shifts at most) so it might just be a personal thing.
Mushrooms were much more visually intense, and sleep deprivation doesn't come close to the visuals on shrooms IMO. Acid for a head trip, shrooms for all the pretty colors :crackhead:
There is no wake but dreams.
I used to be so disinterested in classes at High School that I'd stare sleepily at the ceiling for almost n hour at a time. After a while I'd be able to see the walls bending or breathing slightly just by imagining it hard enough.
Me too. After High School becomes all possibility. So long as you do not blow your school up you could move on to become an astronaut, a messiah, or just dead.
They say a small kid's life is similar to an acid trip.
ahh to be a kid again. ;)
I believe it, the crazy shit some kids do.
Quote from: Felix on April 29, 2007, 01:00:51 AM
Scientific Fact: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Cannot compare this directly to LSD, having not tried it. But being awake for 50 hours straight, I did have weird feelings of someone standing right at the edge of my peripheral vision.
Not really hallucinating, just getting hyper paranoid.
Last week, I was zoning out a bit due to sleep deprivation, but that only really resulted in making bright colours feel more real, and a desire to listen to shit music.
Quote from: Felix on April 29, 2007, 01:00:51 AM
Scientific Fact False: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Fixed.
Having used plenty of LSD in my days of depravity and a plethora of other drugs AND having spent several days on sleep deprivation I know what both do. You WILL hallucinate if you spend days awake but to say it is even similar to an LSD trip is a total misconception of both. sleep deprivation produces slightly plausible hallucinations such as minor auditories like hearing a door shut when it didn't happen, seeing a glipse mermaid when you look out to sea, shadows that appear to move in the corner of one's eye, etc.
LSD in any decent dose can transform the entire world making one believe a cartoon in a poster on the wall suddenly comes to life and starts interacting with it's environment or that one retreats down a shower drain crossing a dimensional barrier to cmmunicate with alien beings, etc. What's more, a person under the effects of LSD (especially if they are less experienced with it's use) is much less likely to question the believability of the hallucination and simply accept it as truth where people suffering slep deprivation will often know that they are hallucinating and do their best to keep their wits about them. Further, I don't believe full tactile hallucinations can be achieved with sleep deprivation alone (IE not having other mental dissorders present) as I've never experienced it, read of it or had it reported to me.
Do not take this post as pro-drug. I'm not pro or anti drug, and I personally feel drugs are a waste of time and money but are a vallid indulgence like smoking a cigar or a shot of fine bourbon, or simply being lazy at the beach; ie something to do when you've legitamately earned a vacation (if it's your thing) but not part of daily life.
Thing is, disreality is NOT enjoyable, at all. You wouldn't want this trip, for all the "shneato" experiences in the world. You don't go SEEKING disreality. It's the shit that happens to you when you're caught in the maelstrom that is the royally fucked up in this world.
life + fubar = disreality
Quote from: Jenne on April 30, 2007, 05:09:52 PM
Thing is, disreality is NOT enjoyable, at all. You wouldn't want this trip, for all the "shneato" experiences in the world. You don't go SEEKING disreality. It's the shit that happens to you when you're caught in the maelstrom that is the royally fucked up in this world.
life + fubar = disreality
Only until you learn to love it.
What you call disreality I would lump reality in with. Reality is just another shade of direaltiy, if you will.
Yeah sure there's the barstool but all you really know is something you were expecting just smacked you in the face.
What's a face anyroad?
Disreality can be grim and depressing, but there are spiritual and magical highs too, imo.
Quote from: Felix on April 29, 2007, 01:00:51 AM
Scientific Fact: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Speed doesn't usually cause hallucinations, but it can effect thinking patterns similar to some forms of schizophrenia. Speed might not have been the soul cause of my myopia, but it played a part. I endured years of psychotherapy afterward, at the wish of my family. I don't deal with psychiatry much anymore, but dis reality is still grasping some degree of sanity and now approaching normalcy.
(http://www.weirdclipart.com/images/weirdfolks/hcwc03.gif)
Quote from: SillyCybin on April 30, 2007, 11:28:22 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 30, 2007, 05:09:52 PM
Thing is, disreality is NOT enjoyable, at all. You wouldn't want this trip, for all the "shneato" experiences in the world. You don't go SEEKING disreality. It's the shit that happens to you when you're caught in the maelstrom that is the royally fucked up in this world.
life + fubar = disreality
Only until you learn to love it.
What you call disreality I would lump reality in with. Reality is just another shade of direaltiy, if you will.
Yeah sure there's the barstool but all you really know is something you were expecting just smacked you in the face.
What's a face anyroad?
That's true, because in the end, that's the coping mechanism. Still gets fucked up sideways half the time, but yeah, accepting it as part of reality is the way to not go homocidal. Reality Mach II = disreality.
I know there's realms
beyond this as well...and the whimpy lil whiny bitch in me hopes I NEVAR come to know them.
Quote from: Ambassador KAOS on April 30, 2007, 06:24:33 AM
Quote from: Felix on April 29, 2007, 01:00:51 AM
Scientific Fact False: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Fixed.
Having used plenty of LSD in my days of depravity and a plethora of other drugs AND having spent several days on sleep deprivation I know what both do. You WILL hallucinate if you spend days awake but to say it is even similar to an LSD trip is a total misconception of both. sleep deprivation produces slightly plausible hallucinations such as minor auditories like hearing a door shut when it didn't happen, seeing a glipse mermaid when you look out to sea, shadows that appear to move in the corner of one's eye, etc.
LSD in any decent dose can transform the entire world making one believe a cartoon in a poster on the wall suddenly comes to life and starts interacting with it's environment or that one retreats down a shower drain crossing a dimensional barrier to cmmunicate with alien beings, etc. What's more, a person under the effects of LSD (especially if they are less experienced with it's use) is much less likely to question the believability of the hallucination and simply accept it as truth where people suffering slep deprivation will often know that they are hallucinating and do their best to keep their wits about them. Further, I don't believe full tactile hallucinations can be achieved with sleep deprivation alone (IE not having other mental dissorders present) as I've never experienced it, read of it or had it reported to me.
Do not take this post as pro-drug. I'm not pro or anti drug, and I personally feel drugs are a waste of time and money but are a vallid indulgence like smoking a cigar or a shot of fine bourbon, or simply being lazy at the beach; ie something to do when you've legitamately earned a vacation (if it's your thing) but not part of daily life.
I um, don't read your posts.
'K.
first, felix: :lol:
second, jenne: thanks for writing this! it's kinda refreshing to read something that really tries to explain something completely unrelated to the "think for yourself / stand up" pieces we usually find in this subforum, yet is still closely related to discordia and chaos. (though i suppose Silly's writings might have been along these lines as well, but they were long so i haven't read them, yet)
your "disreality NOT unreality" reminds me of the lyrics to a song, Hallucinogen - Demention:
There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity,
and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's
insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the
circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity. (http://mihd.net/8s9tx4)
Very cool, thanks for that 000. I think it's a concept definitely best NOT lived with, but if you do, best defined before you off yourself. Or ignored. Whichever suits best.
*bump*
Ah, yes.
Not sure if it relates, but in Chapel Perilous, the cause of disreality isn't that the universe has suddenly become strange, but because your interpretation of the universe doesn't work right, anymore.
I think, now, looking back, I believe that to be the case.
Wheras before, I saw outside events shaping my inner reality, I think the "map" has changed and I'm no longer even in the building.
Does that make any sense?
Yup. That shit can fuck you up.
Quote from: Payne on April 29, 2007, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: Felix on April 29, 2007, 01:00:51 AM
Scientific Fact: A few days of sleep deprivation induces hallucinations comprable to LSD.
Cannot compare this directly to LSD, having not tried it. But being awake for 50 hours straight, I did have weird feelings of someone standing right at the edge of my peripheral vision.
Not really hallucinating, just getting hyper paranoid.
Hypnagogia. Actually, you *can* get to the point of pretty vivid hallucinations from that. Far before that, though, you will start perceiving arbitrary things as faces and voices (that are neither). I've had pretty intense hypnagogia after 50 hours combined with binaurals (which in my case I used in order to induce it).
Quote from: Jenne on April 26, 2007, 07:56:13 PM
NOT unreality...not the lack of reality...but apart from reality, away from reality.
It's that point when, to all intents and purposes, there is a reversal of reality, you are taken from it, and placed instead in disreality. Where the surreal is the real. Where life is death, death is life. The not is, and the is never really has been.
And the disbelief in the disreality causes a lack of cognizance, a dissonance, with the center of being. So that there is an imbalance of proportion, and gaining back the fulcrum seems the impossiblest of tasks.
When you reach disreality, you wonder why it has to be, even while you know the very direct because it came into being. But you still question the necessitation of consequences, the necessitation of the action, the weight and counterweight to the scales. Off-center suits when you are in surreality or impracticality.
But the unrecognizable disreality brings pain, absence of control, horrifically dark feelings that swell and never subside. Disreality is the conjunction of all forces opposite that bring it all into lopsided focus, when you say goodbye to what was irrevocably known, and you enter the world eternal of the inconceivably unknown.
I think I have the opposite problem. I did what I've always warned against.
I stopped and actually took a good look around.
Ever since 2004, I think I've stopped NOT looking around. And folks don't like the rearrangement of my face nor the look in my eye now that I'm aware. They liked it better when my eyes were clouded and I figured my shit had more to do with existential angst than what was really wrong.
Quote from: Jenne on October 27, 2009, 08:33:26 PM
Ever since 2004, I think I've stopped NOT looking around. And folks don't like the rearrangement of my face nor the look in my eye now that I'm aware. They liked it better when my eyes were clouded and I figured my shit had more to do with existential angst than what was really wrong.
The Truth is ugly, Jenne. It's ugly and wrong and painful and...and it's the only thing worth having.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 27, 2009, 08:47:29 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 27, 2009, 08:33:26 PM
Ever since 2004, I think I've stopped NOT looking around. And folks don't like the rearrangement of my face nor the look in my eye now that I'm aware. They liked it better when my eyes were clouded and I figured my shit had more to do with existential angst than what was really wrong.
The Truth is ugly, Jenne. It's ugly and wrong and painful and...and it's the only thing worth having.
That's what I mean. I am resented wholesale for not only knowing it, but advertising it as well. And not letting others obfuscate or destroy it.
Yup. I'm not very popular. At all.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 26, 2007, 08:06:54 PM
Is it like this?
My OBNOXIOUS JERK CABAL was born, in part, when a bunch of my friends spent long periods of time being very very sarcastic assholes to each other. After months of being perpetually sarcastic, we actually experienced a cognitive flip. It was a prime example of language sculpting reality. My cabal-mate Squire Candyass called it the "terrible/awesome" phase.
"So I failed my Junior Seminar class."
"That's awesome!"
".... yeah, it is awesome! How'd you do on your chem final?"
"I aced it."
"Oh, that sucks. You want a beer?"
We'd get really excited about injuries and illnesses, and really depressed about good weather. It was a supremely weird period because somebody would leap out from behind a bush and slash you with a kitchen knife and you'd thank them. Someone got sick and threw up all over the living room and you'd high five them as you hauled out the mop. I remember scrubbing a floor with a grin, saying "I fucking love cleaning up puke!" and sort of meant it. That kind of shit was happening nonstop.
After months of this, we had to make a collective reality check. We found ourselves unable to communicate with others because our sense of humor was so far out of whack. That's just the tip of the ice berg, but suffice to say that in hindsight, I can only describe that period as disreality.
Copious use of hallucinogens, of course, made the period that much more bizarre and personally significant.
'zat what you mean?
Minor threadjack, but: that's
awesome
Quote from: Jenne on October 27, 2009, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 27, 2009, 08:47:29 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 27, 2009, 08:33:26 PM
Ever since 2004, I think I've stopped NOT looking around. And folks don't like the rearrangement of my face nor the look in my eye now that I'm aware. They liked it better when my eyes were clouded and I figured my shit had more to do with existential angst than what was really wrong.
The Truth is ugly, Jenne. It's ugly and wrong and painful and...and it's the only thing worth having.
That's what I mean. I am resented wholesale for not only knowing it, but advertising it as well. And not letting others obfuscate or destroy it.
Yup. I'm not very popular. At all.
"Telling the truth will not make you popular at parties."
- Some fucking wet blanket.
If you knew the truth, you probably wouldn't be partying.
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on October 28, 2009, 11:01:36 AM
If you knew the truth, you probably wouldn't be partying.
Bullshit. If you knew The Truth, you'd be partying five times as hard.
This is no century for those who aren't serious about having a good time.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 03:55:37 PM
Quote from: Enki v. 2.0 on October 28, 2009, 11:01:36 AM
If you knew the truth, you probably wouldn't be partying.
Bullshit. If you knew The Truth, you'd be partying five times as hard.
This is no century for those who aren't serious about having a good time.
Prexactly!
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2007, 09:06:53 PM
Operation mindfuck. When I first encountered the phrase it was something you did to yourself. On purpose you'd alter your whole approach to life, your belief structure, your mental and emotional reactions to things, derail your train of thought at every available opportunity. Kind like roleplaying but with much greater intent and intensity.
I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh every day for years. Thing is, he's actually really, genuinely funny guy. Like hilarious. You listen to him enough you get the feeling that his whole persona is some sort of big glorious prank.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
This is no century for those who aren't serious about having a good time.
On hearing this somebody, somewhere, will achieve enlightenment. But for me, it may have set me back a couple satoris.
Quote from: Guy_Incognito on October 28, 2009, 04:10:08 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2007, 09:06:53 PM
Operation mindfuck. When I first encountered the phrase it was something you did to yourself. On purpose you'd alter your whole approach to life, your belief structure, your mental and emotional reactions to things, derail your train of thought at every available opportunity. Kind like roleplaying but with much greater intent and intensity.
I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh every day for years. Thing is, he's actually really, genuinely funny guy. Like hilarious. You listen to him enough you get the feeling that his whole persona is some sort of big glorious prank.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
This is no century for those who aren't serious about having a good time.
On hearing this somebody, somewhere, will achieve enlightenment. But for me, it may have set me back a couple satoris.
That's my job.
TGRR,
Knocking Buddhists out of Satori since the Johnson Administration.
Quote from: Guy_Incognito on October 28, 2009, 04:10:08 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on April 26, 2007, 09:06:53 PM
Operation mindfuck. When I first encountered the phrase it was something you did to yourself. On purpose you'd alter your whole approach to life, your belief structure, your mental and emotional reactions to things, derail your train of thought at every available opportunity. Kind like roleplaying but with much greater intent and intensity.
I used to listen to Rush Limbaugh every day for years. Thing is, he's actually really, genuinely funny guy. Like hilarious. You listen to him enough you get the feeling that his whole persona is some sort of big glorious prank.
I used to wonder how much of politics was just people pranking the gullible masses, and the gullible masses taking them seriously. Then I realized that the politicians aren't necessarily any less gullible.
If you gave me Limbaugh's job, I would go totally berserk.
TGRR,
Method Acting can never go too far.
:lulz: Word. I think I realized the "now you know, anything goes" attitude will actually keep you out of the looney bin only just long enough to enjoy yourself while you're on the ride about a year into this whole mess.
Quote from: Jenne on October 28, 2009, 06:54:31 PM
:lulz: Word. I think I realized the "now you know, anything goes" attitude will actually keep you out of the looney bin only just long enough to enjoy yourself while you're on the ride about a year into this whole mess.
Ever go skiing, Jenne? Sometimes you hit an icy patch. At that point, only sheer nerve will keep you in one piece. Go faster, always faster. Loose your nerve, and you're done dealing.
The same concept applies here.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on October 28, 2009, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Jenne on October 28, 2009, 06:54:31 PM
:lulz: Word. I think I realized the "now you know, anything goes" attitude will actually keep you out of the looney bin only just long enough to enjoy yourself while you're on the ride about a year into this whole mess.
Ever go skiing, Jenne? Sometimes you hit an icy patch. At that point, only sheer nerve will keep you in one piece. Go faster, always faster. Loose your nerve, and you're done dealing.
The same concept applies here.
:lulz: Oh if you only knew my history with skiing. I uh gave it up. I hate it. Hate snow, hate ice. Pretty to look at, but not risk my neck on. Hate the wetness, hate the cold. Hate the soreness of muscles I never knew were there and the subsequent bruises.
But I have a fear of falling, too. I think that's why I managed to live in the mountains for 7 years and only skiied twice.
The metaphor still holds.
Yeah, but there are other thinks LIKE skiing that AREN'T skiing.
Quote from: Jenne on October 29, 2009, 12:31:05 AM
Yeah, but there are other thinks LIKE skiing that AREN'T skiing.
Yeah. Like American life.
Quote from: Jenne on April 26, 2007, 08:10:32 PM
Yes, it's Alice in Wonderland meets Alice in Chains.
that one liner just produced a massive internal visualisation of what exactly that would be like.
And, I kinda like it.
The mad hatter's tea party being a little like "Junkhead".. actually, thats scary as fuck!
Quote from: Pixie O'Fubar on October 30, 2009, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 26, 2007, 08:10:32 PM
Yes, it's Alice in Wonderland meets Alice in Chains.
that one liner just produced a massive internal visualisation of what exactly that would be like.
And, I kinda like it.
The mad hatter's tea party being a little like "Junkhead".. actually, thats scary as fuck!
This makes me want to rewrite Alice in Wonderland as a rock musical.
Except that Layne's dead. :cry:
Quote from: Shrunkenheadspace on October 30, 2009, 11:16:20 PM
Quote from: Pixie O'Fubar on October 30, 2009, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Jenne on April 26, 2007, 08:10:32 PM
Yes, it's Alice in Wonderland meets Alice in Chains.
that one liner just produced a massive internal visualisation of what exactly that would be like.
And, I kinda like it.
The mad hatter's tea party being a little like "Junkhead".. actually, thats scary as fuck!
This makes me want to rewrite Alice in Wonderland as a rock musical.
Except that Layne's dead. :cry:
It would has been awesomes.
Quote from: Jenne on April 26, 2007, 07:56:13 PM
NOT unreality...not the lack of reality...but apart from reality, away from reality.
It's that point when, to all intents and purposes, there is a reversal of reality, you are taken from it, and placed instead in disreality. Where the surreal is the real. Where life is death, death is life. The not is, and the is never really has been.
OH HAI FROM 2020, WHEN THIS IS ALLLLLL NORMAL.