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No one's going anywhere. We are trapped in like the dissendent rats we are.

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Smashing Pumkins, I think.  Plus Scytano finally made a decent point.  A lot of other countries are seriously fucked up.  They haven't taken our guns away, yet.  The only good thing I can think of off the top of my head that the Bush admin has done.  I can still walk around the corner and buy a gun and some ammo.

Hence Swizerland.  If I were a citizen there, it'd be law that I have to have a gun.  And the laws are even more relaxed then the US in some areas. Of course, the downside is that it is Switzerland.  But then again, no-one wants to invade, because even evil dictators and corrupt CEOs have to have a safe place to store the cash.

All I notied was that was written on my birthaday.  Ah fuck Im still drunk I think.  Ill sober up and come back later.....

Who cares, they all have snow and guns in large amounts!  And Switzerland has chocolate too, I suppose.

I thought that was Switzerland?

So long as no-one goes to Belize Im OK.

I'll be robot sex slave for Eris.  

When do we get to spread democracy to Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan?  Oh I forget, those are "benevolent dictatorships".  Yeah right.  Believe that and you'll believe anything.

Oh I know that, Im not trying to defend any position on this.  Im just saying it is common knowledge that Iran supports terrorism, thereby making it a more legitimate target is some eyes.

"breaking the rules of the U.N".  We broke NO RULES.  

Incorrect.  Article 52 says you may only use military force in self-defence.  The latest UN resolution against Iraq was drafted so that there would be a legitmate way of delaring war, however the conditions were not met in a sufficient fashion to warrant military action.

But we know Iran supports terrorism (ETA, Hezbollah, IRA)

Im sure most people do.

We didn't set the precedent, Scribe (ref England in Ireland, France in the Ivory Coast, or Russia in Chechnya here).  I also was referring to the "end of American civilization" blather.  I'm sorry, you guys can say whatever you want, but sometimes you get so caught up in your OWN rhetoric that you really say some stupid shit.  This was classic in that regard.

But in all of those places there was at least past precedent for control, even if those treaties had been signed at gunpoint.  And there was no UN discussion over them, because they knew they would break it and set a precedent for other third world nations to do the same back, meaning a return to the anarchic international system and therefore ams races, alliances etc the whole lot.  It doesnt look good when the biggest power, who helped found the UN, starts breaking those rules so publicly.

As for "the end of American civilization", well it has to happen one day.  Maybe the day Bush picks a war with a nation that can fight back, maybe 20 years time, maybe 200 years time.  Who knows?  They said Rome was the Eternal City, and while it may still be around, its not exactly the centre of Europe nowadays is it?  And it may not even be so dramatic as an invasion.  What if China etc decide to drop the US debt and a terror attack cuts off Saudi Arabian oil?  Your economy will be fucked and you can expect scenes similar to the last days of Weimar Germany.  And thats just one scernario I can think of.  

In summary, things are often more transient then they appear.  And nothing looks good when the worlds most powerful country that purportedly seeks international peace invades without a mandate from an organization it set up.

It's bad enought that you guys lack creativity in your anti-Bush rhetoric, but then there is shit like this:

"this current american government is settign a very dangerous precedent, which may very well spell the end of american civilization, wether that civilization dies from foriegn invaders or from it's own unwillingness to think critically or beyonf their own personal immidiate wants."

Don't you ever find youself laughing at your own words when you type such loaded bs.  This is the kind of crap that makes people like Rush and Ann Coulter rich talking about how big of idiots some on the left really are.  I'm well aware many of you have legitimate (hate to use that word again so soon) reasons for not liking Bush and this war, but shit like this is just fucking stupid, to be blunt.  If this is really something you truly feel deep down then you need to go have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

My bad, then you'll be supporting an "evil" American corporation, and we wouldn't want to do that.

I see.  So invading foreign countries on the basis of spurious evidence and ignoring the UN whilst doing so (and being a member of the UNPSC) isnt a dangerous precedent.  OK then.  So you wont complain when the nuke comes from NK to end the "fascist police state and bring true Marxist-Leninsit ways" to the US?

So you have guns pointed at you when you vote in Illinois?  That's funny because you guys voted for Kerry.  What's that tell you?

Thats someone took my ID and somehow gained for me an American passport, all 4 months ago at least.  And they werent any good, because they should have made more fake IDs to swing the vote properly

It's the software inside people's heads that wins wars nowadays. You hardware freaks are going to have to face that fact one of these days. And it's this brain-software that we're hopeless at programming. Iraq has proved pretty clearly we don't have a clue how to use the Middle-Eastern brain OS. In fact, we've actually done the impossible: reprogrammed the miserable, cowardly Iraqis into fierce warriors.

Remember Gulf War I? Remember those pitiful fags crawling up to our soldiers to surrender on their hands and knees, sobbing like babies? Two years of occupation by Bush's morons has turned those cowards into fearless kamikazes in Oldsmobiles.

Man, that article was really interesting! Thanks for sharing, Scribe.

Not a problem.  The War Nerd is pretty smart, if somewhat disturbing.