I was fiddling around on Facebook when my friend, Felicia, happened to start a discussion with me about Twilight and how a lot of people have been saying that it's better than Harry Potter. We eventually get to the author itself, Stephanie Meyer. This is basically whatshe said, and I think it's a pretty good point:
During California's Prop 8 (for anyone who doesn't know, California had legalized gay marriage in 2008 - Prop 8 was the proposition that overturned that decree and banned gay marriage from California once more - the Mormon church, to which Stephanie Meyer is HEAVILY involved in, contributed GREATLY to ensuring Prop 8 was passed and gay marriage in California was no more), Stephanie Meyer donated at least 10 percent of all her profits from Twilight, to the Mormon Church. It is safe to say, she was a powerful asset in determining the outcome of that election and ensuring gay marriage was banned. I have no respect for an author who uses their profits from their writing to discriminate against people's sexual orientations, and broadening from that, anyone who discriminates against gender, race, etc.
I have many gay, bisexual, and lesbian friends who love Twilight - I'm sure there are several open and closeted homosexuals in this group who love Twilight as well thousands around the earth. I for one, kind of liked the reading when I was in Middle School, but completely disregarded it's worth when learning this information. How can a person respect an author and her work when the very people who read it and support her are the people she cannot stand or accept? That to me, is ridiculous, and completely hypocritical and close-minded of an author and her choices of where her money from the series' profits go. It is utter bigotry, old-world, and completely hypocritical.
The point? J. K. Rowling is people friendly and a compassionate person (clearly evident by her support to include a homosexual in her work, as one of the most inspiring, wise, and developed characters in literature, Professor Dumbledore - and her loving acceptance of her characters and others in reality), where as Stephanie Meyer is discriminatory and close-minded, clearly only looking out for her own pocket and her own beliefs as a Mormon, and not valuing the lives of her readers. You might think Twilight is better than Harry Potter, but all books stem from the authors that pen them - the story starts at the heart and mind of the writer - and in no way can Twilight EVER in any way, shape, or form, exceed the evolved thinking, positive attitudes, educational experiences, and true heart for humanity, that Harry Potter and its author exemplifies time and time again within each page turn, when Twilight's own message starts at the dark core of its hideous author.
What if I hate them both?
Cool. This is the most substantial reason to utterly loathe Twilight I've heard of yet!
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
What if I hate them both?
Then you call yourself a purist, and go back to masturbating to screencaps of
The Dark Crystal.
Quote from: LMNO on July 13, 2010, 07:19:08 PM
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 07:15:01 PM
What if I hate them both?
Then you call yourself a purist, and go back to masturbating to screencaps of The Last Unicorn.
Fixed. Get it right spag! :)
But, to not totally derail the thread....
It seems just a little tenuous to link the success of Twilight to the success of Prop 8. I suppose there is a link-pin there, but I have to assume there are other wildly, financially successful Mormons besides Stephanie Meyers. So I guess we have to blame Mitt Romney too. (which is okay I suppose, because he's a gigantic dick.)
You have to blame the non Mormons as well, since a lot us here in Utah do things that profits the Mormon church like shop at their malls.
I never really thought about that before.
Well yeah, Meyers didn't mastermind it or anything, but she's obviously played a large role in helping the law pass.
:lulz:
And yeah, she's a MORMON, and it was their infusion of cash that tipped that whole campaign...but meh. It's stalled in the courts, and the anti-Prop 8 people are really needing to get some gas in the engine to get it defeated. When I go up north this weekend, I'll ask my formerly-SF-city attorney bro-in-law what's going on with the case.
I liked Harry Potter better than Twilight.
This may be because I started reading them in elementary/middle school, and the writing was, you know, actually good.
Also, I agree with RWHN in that that is a bit of a leap in logic.
HP was good enough to read, as fantasy goes. Most fantasy is not "good enough to read", IMO. I'm tired of dragons, and I'm tired of the power of love, and I'm tired of 'the Chosen One'. So it says something that I actually read through all 7 HP books.
Ironic, since what's his name (googling) Edward Cullen is probably the gayest vampire to have been written since Louis de Pointe du Lac.
I mean, c'mon. Sparkles? Is Meyer serious? Do Mormons even play around with vampire literature other than this? It's bad all around, but has she taken a step back and looked at her character, or his portrayal on film?
RWHN- it's not tenuous. Do you think every wealthy Mormon of note DIDN'T give to that? I mean how else could they have afforded all those cool lightning bolts to make you fear the homosexual assault on our deeply Christian society?
Maybe she didn't give, but I think that it is more probable than not that she did. I have my own religious beliefs and you can be damn sure that if I had some money, I'd be pumping it into causes that I believe in, religion involved or not.
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2010, 07:42:59 PM
RWHN- it's not tenuous. Do you think every wealthy Mormon of note DIDN'T give to that? I mean how else could they have afforded all those cool lightning bolts to make you fear the homosexual assault on our deeply Christian society?
Maybe she didn't give, but I think that it is more probable than not that she did. I have my own religious beliefs and you can be damn sure that if I had some money, I'd be pumping it into causes that I believe in, religion involved or not.
Well what is laid out in the OP is that Stephanie Meyer, being a good Mormon, donated her 10% to the church, the church poured money into Prop 8. While I'm sure her 10% was considerable, my guess is the church would have had more than enough wealth otherwise to contribute to the Prop 8 campaign. So as I say, there is a link-pin, but there are probably millions of linkpins with all of the other Mormons who contribute their tithes to the church.
I think it would be better if someone used this as a stepping stone to directly ask Meyer regarding her thoughts on homosexuality and gay marriage, and then publicize that.
"Stephanie, how do you feel about the Mormon Church using part of your tithing to defeat Prop 8?" or something like that.
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 07:50:54 PM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2010, 07:42:59 PM
RWHN- it's not tenuous. Do you think every wealthy Mormon of note DIDN'T give to that? I mean how else could they have afforded all those cool lightning bolts to make you fear the homosexual assault on our deeply Christian society?
Maybe she didn't give, but I think that it is more probable than not that she did. I have my own religious beliefs and you can be damn sure that if I had some money, I'd be pumping it into causes that I believe in, religion involved or not.
Well what is laid out in the OP is that Stephanie Meyer, being a good Mormon, donated her 10% to the church, the church poured money into Prop 8. While I'm sure her 10% was considerable, my guess is the church would have had more than enough wealth otherwise to contribute to the Prop 8 campaign. So as I say, there is a link-pin, but there are probably millions of linkpins with all of the other Mormons who contribute their tithes to the church.
Yup, and to that I say: FUCK THEM ALL
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 07:50:54 PM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2010, 07:42:59 PM
RWHN- it's not tenuous. Do you think every wealthy Mormon of note DIDN'T give to that? I mean how else could they have afforded all those cool lightning bolts to make you fear the homosexual assault on our deeply Christian society?
Maybe she didn't give, but I think that it is more probable than not that she did. I have my own religious beliefs and you can be damn sure that if I had some money, I'd be pumping it into causes that I believe in, religion involved or not.
Well what is laid out in the OP is that Stephanie Meyer, being a good Mormon, donated her 10% to the church, the church poured money into Prop 8. While I'm sure her 10% was considerable, my guess is the church would have had more than enough wealth otherwise to contribute to the Prop 8 campaign. So as I say, there is a link-pin, but there are probably millions of linkpins with all of the other Mormons who contribute their tithes to the church.
I guess I'm arguing it from the approval angle. If you buy the product you approve. This is why I won't buy Burzum albums, other than Det Som Engang Var (and that only to get a sampling of what it sounded like, since it was pre-me having internet access at home). Is there more to Varg Vikernes then being a rabid anti-Semite and white supremacist? No doubt. He's a human being, just as complex as the rest of us. But what do I know about him and where does that conflict with my ideals? Am I going to listen to his music in the future? Maybe, but I'm definitely going to not pay for it, and I'm certainly reluctant to even steal it. As far as Iron Maiden (my favorite band, if you have not been paying attention)? They have my continuing financial support. Bruce Dickinson has come out and said that he is personally offended by racism. That makes me not want to steal their music, but rather purchase and cherish it (unless it sucks, and then, oh well, they got my money. Make a better album next time).
Refusing to do business with ~12 million Mormons would be slightly more difficult than just avoiding the loudmouths.
Don't mind me, I think I'm just being pedantic.
That's why I think we need to go the direct route. If Mormon church uses tithing money to quash Prop 8, then those who tithe are contributing to quashing Prop 8. The big question is, how does Meyer feel about that? If you raise a big enough stink, she might actually respond. Either she alienates the LGBTs, or she goes against the Church.
win/win.
Quote from: Requia ☣ on July 13, 2010, 08:05:30 PM
Refusing to do business with ~12 million Mormons would be slightly more difficult than just avoiding the loudmouths.
Right, but she's a high profile Mormon.
I'm not going to stop doing business with small time Catholics just because I happen to be pro-choice. Like you said, that's impractical. However, if there is a larger corporation that advances agendas (with their money) that I don't agree with, I'm not going to give them my money, and I'm going to tell other people why. Not because they're Catholic, but because there is reasonable doubt as to where my money is going after the fact.
Also, the whole argument here is overshadowing the fact that the Twilight series sucks to begin with and you shouldn't spend your money on it anyway.
Quote from: LMNO on July 13, 2010, 08:09:10 PM
That's why I think we need to go the direct route. If Mormon church uses tithing money to quash Prop 8, then those who tithe are contributing to quashing Prop 8. The big question is, how does Meyer feel about that? If you raise a big enough stink, she might actually respond. Either she alienates the LGBTs, or she goes against the Church.
win/win.
I like it
How do Mormons feel about tales of vampires and werewolves in the first place? Especially coming from one of their own? Maybe Mormons don't get as hot and bothered about those types of things like a lot of Catholics and Protestants do.
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
How do Mormons feel about tales of vampires and werewolves in the first place? Especially coming from one of their own? Maybe Mormons don't get as hot and bothered about those types of things like a lot of Catholics and Protestants do.
I dunno, are the weres and vamps living "according to The Principle
TM"? /snicker
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
How do Mormons feel about tales of vampires and werewolves in the first place? Especially coming from one of their own? Maybe Mormons don't get as hot and bothered about those types of things like a lot of Catholics and Protestants do.
Well, with Anne Rice's Vampire chronicles, Catholicism started to creep in, especially with Armand's apparent devoutness within the Church, even if it was at times Satanic. Maybe I'm reading into it wrong, since AR used to be an atheist, but that's what I got out of that. That and, of course, the dirty pederastic eroticism that made me put The Vampire Armand down forever, without finishing it.
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
How do Mormons feel about tales of vampires and werewolves in the first place? Especially coming from one of their own? Maybe Mormons don't get as hot and bothered about those types of things like a lot of Catholics and Protestants do.
Maybe they don't mind as much when it comes down to money for the church.
Quote from: Abbess Jade on July 13, 2010, 08:47:19 PM
Quote from: RWHN on July 13, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
How do Mormons feel about tales of vampires and werewolves in the first place? Especially coming from one of their own? Maybe Mormons don't get as hot and bothered about those types of things like a lot of Catholics and Protestants do.
Maybe they don't mind as much when it comes down to money for the church.
Ah, that old rub.
QuoteQuote from: Abbess Jade on July 13, 2010, 07:11:38 PM
The point? J. K. Rowling is people friendly and a compassionate person (clearly evident by her support to include a homosexual in her work, as one of the most inspiring, wise, and developed characters in literature, Professor Dumbledore,,,
I only saw the first Harry Potter movie for the lulz but...
Dumbledore is gay??? Didnt see that one coming.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on July 13, 2010, 09:53:45 PM
QuoteQuote from: Abbess Jade on July 13, 2010, 07:11:38 PM
The point? J. K. Rowling is people friendly and a compassionate person (clearly evident by her support to include a homosexual in her work, as one of the most inspiring, wise, and developed characters in literature, Professor Dumbledore,,,
I only saw the first Harry Potter movie for the lulz but...
Dumbledore is gay??? Didnt see that one coming.
Author confirmed. Apparently there is a sad lost love story implied in the whole thing. Which I think is cool, but why not come out and say it?
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on July 13, 2010, 10:01:02 PM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on July 13, 2010, 09:53:45 PM
QuoteQuote from: Abbess Jade on July 13, 2010, 07:11:38 PM
The point? J. K. Rowling is people friendly and a compassionate person (clearly evident by her support to include a homosexual in her work, as one of the most inspiring, wise, and developed characters in literature, Professor Dumbledore,,,
I only saw the first Harry Potter movie for the lulz but...
Dumbledore is gay??? Didnt see that one coming.
Author confirmed. Apparently there is a sad lost love story implied in the whole thing. Which I think is cool, but why not come out and say it?
Oh i see, that makes more sense.
I would have thought it to be very daring to make it explicit in a latency oriented best-seller type of book.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
I mean, it already got a backlash from "OH NOES TEH WITCHCRAFTZZZ!1!" and something that would evoke "OH NOEZ TEH GAYZZ!!2!!!!" would be too much trouble in sum.
so from this we can now say....
Sparkledy Vampires HATE Gay People!!!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alo
homora spell.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alohomora spell.
:lulz:
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alohomora spell.
I see what you did there.
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alohomora spell.
Word has it that Grindelwald cast that spell
and then some.
There needs to be a thread where all the puns get put into.
IT WOULD BE AMAZING.
http://achievementgap.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/dishonor-roll-top-11-yes-on-prop-8-donors/
Stephanie Meyer isn't listed as one of the individual Mormons that donated to Prop 8 but that doesn't mean that she didn't launder her money through one of the smaller Mormon groups that donated $100,000. Another author, Tim LaHaye, definitely spent more money than her on it. But none of us are stupid enough to read all the way through the Left Behind series, are we?
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on July 14, 2010, 09:40:20 AM
http://achievementgap.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/dishonor-roll-top-11-yes-on-prop-8-donors/
Stephanie Meyer isn't listed as one of the individual Mormons that donated to Prop 8 but that doesn't mean that she didn't launder her money through one of the smaller Mormon groups that donated $100,000. Another author, Tim LaHaye, definitely spent more money than her on it. But none of us are stupid enough to read all the way through the Left Behind series, are we?
I've read it. I think Cain has read some of it.
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on July 14, 2010, 09:40:20 AM
But none of us are stupid enough to read all the way through the Left Behind series, are we?
I saw the first movie. Does that count? :x
I read the first one as punishment.
Quote from: Kai on July 14, 2010, 02:03:42 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alohomora spell.
Word has it that Grindelwald cast that spell and then some.
He must have cast it with his Wand of Destiny.
Quote from: LMNO on July 14, 2010, 03:38:51 PM
I read the first one as punishment.
What did you do to give yourself that penance?
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 15, 2010, 05:59:05 AM
Quote from: Kai on July 14, 2010, 02:03:42 AM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 13, 2010, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Sigmatic on July 13, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Because it didn't have much to do with the story being told?
Whattaya mean? Dumbledore was always playing with his wand.
But getting him out of the closet would require the Alohomora spell.
Word has it that Grindelwald cast that spell and then some.
He must have cast it with his Wand of Destiny.
You rolled a 92! Eight fiery spheres of different hues shoot forth at 1-segment intervals, striking the target and seemingly causing great amounts of damage (actually only 1 point from each).