Donald Trump is not the problem.
He is an inevitable result of a society that overvalues profit and undervalues human lives. If Trump had never been born, we would have some other equally vile sack of excrement sitting in the Oval Office. He is symptomatic of our collective terror and ignorance around the pace of social change. Like God, if Trump did not exist, we would have to invent him.
In terms of the election this year, a vote against Trump is absolutely meaningless if it is also a vote *for* a return to the political and social status quo in which he arose. Any vote that is not essentially revolutionary will only serve to strengthen Trump's position -- specifically because it is the popular longing for a return to normalcy that created his presidency in the first place.
Voting for Biden is not a protest against Trump, it is a fear-based reactionary scramble for safety. As such, it is doomed from the start because all such scrambling only reinforces the political trajectory that has already culminated in Trump's election. Why would the country elect Biden, when we already have a president who embodies everything he stands for but without the cheap and frankly insulting veneer of faux civility?
Joe Biden opposes universal healthcare (he says everyone deserves "affordable" care, which is code for "healthcare should only exist as a side effect of making some asshole a billionaire"); he opposes network neutrality; he supports imperial wars; he supports propping up banana republics to secure resources; he opposes economic security for the working class (again, unless it makes a profit for someone). Personally he is a sex creep and he can barely string a sentence together better than Mango Mussolini can.
If you want to vote for Biden, please do it for the same reason I am doing it: so you can tell the useless liberals and centrists that you did play the game by their rules and we all still lost. Don't do it because you think there's any fundamental difference between Trump's outright fascism and the DNC's fascism-with-a-wink.
What if I want bad things?
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:19:59 PM
What if I want bad things?
Then this is your year
You're fuck A right it is. Except that this plague contains no zombies, and I would like a refund.
yeah but there is a yuuge difference between Trump and Biden in terms of Supreme Court picks
not to mention dozens of other judicial appointees
middling environmental regulation is better than a fully captured EPA
Single Payer Heathcare for all > Obamacare > Trump fully dismantling and defunding Obamacare
etc etc etc
look, I'm not a fan of Biden, but I'm not buying the total equivalency between the two. A lot of this is letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Yes, Biden will probably lose, but can we recognize that's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2020, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 08:19:59 PM
What if I want bad things?
Then this is your year
You're fuck A right it is. Except that this plague contains no zombies, and I would like a refund.
Infection bearing, fever delerious, well armed, and untreated people are practically rage zombies if you have enough of them.
We'll see how things actually develop, but It's gonna get buck wild methinks.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2020, 08:24:42 PM
yeah but there is a yuuge difference between Trump and Biden in terms of Supreme Court picks
not to mention dozens of other judicial appointees
middling environmental regulation is better than a fully captured EPA
Single Payer Heathcare for all > Obamacare > Trump fully dismantling and defunding Obamacare
etc etc etc
look, I'm not a fan of Biden, but I'm not buying the total equivalency between the two. A lot of this is letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Yes, Biden will probably lose, but can we recognize that's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Look, this isn't helping with the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 08, 2020, 08:24:42 PM
yeah but there is a yuuge difference between Trump and Biden in terms of Supreme Court picks
not to mention dozens of other judicial appointees
middling environmental regulation is better than a fully captured EPA
Single Payer Heathcare for all > Obamacare > Trump fully dismantling and defunding Obamacare
etc etc etc
look, I'm not a fan of Biden, but I'm not buying the total equivalency between the two. A lot of this is letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Yes, Biden will probably lose, but can we recognize that's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
I need to address my inability to get this idea across, to be honest. I am
not saying Biden is morally or even functionally equivalent to Trump. As individual politicians with their own separate styles of speaking, thinking, and governing, they are oceans apart - as are the results, at least in the short term, that they will achieve. But that isn't my point.
What I'm saying is that Biden is part and parcel of a stagnant, obsolete status quo which
inevitably leads to Trumpism. If Biden wins in 2020, well, that's great and all, but it just kicks the can down the road. Mainstream centrist liberalism is incapable of achieving fundamentally meaningful changes in American culture. An America led by Biden will continue to be one where corporate profits are structurally more important than human life, where foreign policy is one of projected coercion and managed instability in potential rivals, where access to healthcare, housing, food, and other necessities is predicated upon subservience to an economic system where people are "human capital".
It is
this status quo which so disempowers and discards human beings that inexorably engenders discontent, xenophobia, and disregard for one another, and so leads directly to a groundswell of popular support for fascism. Electing Joe Biden only adds one more cycle into the wheel of misery. It does nothing to change the nature of the society that produced Trumpism. In
that regard, Biden is equal to Trump. Because Biden is just step one in a process where Trump is step two or three. And every time we have someone like Trump rise to power, we manage to lose much, much more in the way of civil liberties and basic human decency than we can hope to make up for with an interval of relative sanity before the next wave of Fascism.
yup.
right, but unfortunately fundamental change is not on the ballot this year
right now, we're voting for damage control
I think there is a real danger in the logic that we're gonna lose Roe Vs Wade either now or later, so we might as well lose it now
Buddy of mine thinks we have to lose the supreme court in order to set the proper stage for a hypothetical progressive savior in 2024.
But you know how this song goes... the DNC will find a new Joe Biden in 2024 too
who knows though
maybe we can flip the senate and block supreme court nominees indefinitely
I think the real issue is that "fundamental change" is never on the ballot. It will never be certified for any election, ever. And there will never be an election that takes place in the absence of an apparently urgent need to postpone such change because of some immediate crisis. That's my frustration, and the frustration of "accelerationists". That in this minute by minute war against looming calamity, there will never be moment where there isn't a "good reason" to back down and choose the safer path, even though the safer path always, always leads right back here.
It isn't simply that people want to throw up their hands and push us all off the cliff. It's that we are perpetually in the state of having just fallen off the cliff anyway and the idea that we can narrowly avert disaster is no more than the illusion that if we grasp for a twig just out of reach we might arrest our plummet. The argument is that we have already fallen and the responsible thing would be to face that fact and experience its ramifications so we can begin picking ourselves up, not scramble for the illusion of safety in the increasingly inhospitable status quo.
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
What I'm saying is that Biden is part and parcel of a stagnant, obsolete status quo which inevitably leads to Trumpism. If Biden wins in 2020, well, that's great and all, but it just kicks the can down the road.
Oh, it's WAY worse than that. This isn't stagnation. This is what Cicero was bitching about in 55 BCE, and you can't stop it. Nobody can. You are hearing the rattle of pebbles preceding the landslide that we are smack in the path of, and you better have as much fun as you can, Bubba, because it's going to be a VERY bumpy ride.
DANCE, PRIMATES!
DANCE WHILE THE LIGHTS GO OUT IN ROME!
I am also unconvinced that the accelerationists are any different than the MAGA freaks. They both wish to cause harm to the very few humans I don't hate, and therefore I hate them and will cause them harm at any possible opportunity. And I don't care why.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
I am also unconvinced that the accelerationists are any different than the MAGA freaks. They both wish to cause harm to the very few humans I don't hate, and therefore I hate them and will cause them harm at any possible opportunity. And I don't care why.
I don't know why but I was reminded of this and think you should see it. I think everyone should see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_P89hoZsk
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
I am also unconvinced that the accelerationists are any different than the MAGA freaks. They both wish to cause harm to the very few humans I don't hate, and therefore I hate them and will cause them harm at any possible opportunity. And I don't care why.
You're right insofaras harm would befall the wrong people either way, but whereas for the MAGA freaks, the harm is the ultimate goal and therefore will be encouraged and they will personally engage in worsening it and wielding the State as a weapon to enforce it, the accelerationists see the harm as both inevitable and already an extant reality and are likely to personally engage in mitigating it on a peer-to-peer level and disrupting the State's ability to enforce it.
You yourself are an accelerationist in that respect, judging by your stated position that what we're seeing now is "the rattle of pebbles preceding the landslide that we are smack in the path of." It isn't a matter of whether we can avoid catastrophe, but how long we can put it off. Whether the full force of the disaster befalls the people you know personally or their children is immaterial.
For my part
I prefer
Mitigation
over some silly
Acceleration
of the oncoming
inevitable
calamity.
Why rush things?
There is no gain
in playing that game.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 08, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
For my part
I prefer
Mitigation
over some silly
Acceleration
of the oncoming
inevitable
calamity.
Why rush things?
There is no gain
in playing that game.
It's a character flaw. I also always read the last page of the book first.
Quote from: tyrannosaurus vex on April 08, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 08, 2020, 09:52:21 PM
I am also unconvinced that the accelerationists are any different than the MAGA freaks. They both wish to cause harm to the very few humans I don't hate, and therefore I hate them and will cause them harm at any possible opportunity. And I don't care why.
You're right insofaras harm would befall the wrong people either way, but whereas for the MAGA freaks, the harm is the ultimate goal and therefore will be encouraged and they will personally engage in worsening it and wielding the State as a weapon to enforce it, the accelerationists see the harm as both inevitable and already an extant reality and are likely to personally engage in mitigating it on a peer-to-peer level and disrupting the State's ability to enforce it.
You yourself are an accelerationist in that respect, judging by your stated position that what we're seeing now is "the rattle of pebbles preceding the landslide that we are smack in the path of." It isn't a matter of whether we can avoid catastrophe, but how long we can put it off. Whether the full force of the disaster befalls the people you know personally or their children is immaterial.
Naw, it's just that I can read the writing on the wall. What I don't need is Crazy Eddie making things worse faster.
Accelerationism is a fucking stupid idea for a reason I haven't seen mentioned:
There is no time for mitigation of the damage if you see the ceiling is caving in slowly, so you cut the fucking center beam.
Mitigation requires planning and forethought. Acceleration says "fuck that, the roof is going down anyway so let's just get it over with" before you have a chance to move people out of the way.
That's fucking stupid. I do not respect it.
In the roof collapse analogy, I'm blind and have busted legs. If no one helps me get out it's quite likely over. I'm lucky: I can hear what's going on and crawl short distances if I have to. Others do not have these luxuries.
Accelerationism speaks in the same language that gives us "acceptable losses". The same language that acts like some human lives are worth more or less than others. Accelerationism is eugenics and social Darwinism in action even if not in intent, because it is "shoot them all and let God sort it out." It is burning the village to save it.
Don't be an accelerationist.
Quote from: altered on April 08, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Accelerationism is a fucking stupid idea for a reason I haven't seen mentioned:
There is no time for mitigation of the damage if you see the ceiling is caving in slowly, so you cut the fucking center beam.
Mitigation requires planning and forethought. Acceleration says "fuck that, the roof is going down anyway so let's just get it over with" before you have a chance to move people out of the way.
That's fucking stupid. I do not respect it.
In the roof collapse analogy, I'm blind and have busted legs. If no one helps me get out it's quite likely over. I'm lucky: I can hear what's going on and crawl short distances if I have to. Others do not have these luxuries.
Accelerationism speaks in the same language that gives us "acceptable losses". The same language that acts like some human lives are worth more or less than others. Accelerationism is eugenics and social Darwinism in action even if not in intent, because it is "shoot them all and let God sort it out." It is burning the village to save it.
Don't be an accelerationist.
:mittens: :potd:
Quote from: altered on April 08, 2020, 11:25:34 PM
Accelerationism is a fucking stupid idea for a reason I haven't seen mentioned:
There is no time for mitigation of the damage if you see the ceiling is caving in slowly, so you cut the fucking center beam.
Mitigation requires planning and forethought. Acceleration says "fuck that, the roof is going down anyway so let's just get it over with" before you have a chance to move people out of the way.
That's fucking stupid. I do not respect it.
In the roof collapse analogy, I'm blind and have busted legs. If no one helps me get out it's quite likely over. I'm lucky: I can hear what's going on and crawl short distances if I have to. Others do not have these luxuries.
Accelerationism speaks in the same language that gives us "acceptable losses". The same language that acts like some human lives are worth more or less than others. Accelerationism is eugenics and social Darwinism in action even if not in intent, because it is "shoot them all and let God sort it out." It is burning the village to save it.
Don't be an accelerationist.
BOOM.
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you add a wheel and a handbrake to an accelerationist you can make them do donuts.
Quote from: Frontside Back on April 09, 2020, 12:46:29 AM
If you add a wheel and a handbrake to an accelerationist you can make them do donuts.
:backpedal:
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you haven't already somewhere i would love a thread dedicated to your knowledge and analysis. I don't want to waste my time actually reading Land or digging for other shit in the pigpen, but a synopsis with searchable terms and concepts would do wonders for my ability to ridicule and satirize.
I do love that Biden doesn't get a trial or anything on the rape accusation.
:lulz:
I mean, that worked well during the George Takei thing.
And the timing is exquisite, and the left has a REALLY bad habit of falling for this shit.
Everyone should now kill themselves and fuck the body. Kthx.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 01:21:11 AM
I mean, that worked well during the George Takei thing.
And the timing is exquisite, and the left has a REALLY bad habit of falling for this shit.
Everyone should now kill themselves and fuck the body. Kthx.
Are you speaking to a particular person or about... ? I'm a little confused about the context. I know that the Idea equivocating Trump and Biden as accused rapists and "basically the same" in other negative terms is rampant, like pretty much everywhere I've seen on social media. It's REALLY unfortunate, and ill timed. I have for some time suspected that provocateurs are promoting such divisive perspectives, but have no evidence beyond the virulence and vitrol spreading like wildfire and thinking someone must be setting the fires and fanning the flame... but frankly I don't think such is necessary to get to where things are.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:41:25 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 09, 2020, 01:21:11 AM
I mean, that worked well during the George Takei thing.
And the timing is exquisite, and the left has a REALLY bad habit of falling for this shit.
Everyone should now kill themselves and fuck the body. Kthx.
Are you speaking to a particular person or about... ? I'm a little confused about the context. I know that the Idea equivocating Trump and Biden as accused rapists and "basically the same" in other negative terms is rampant, like pretty much everywhere I've seen on social media. It's REALLY unfortunate, and ill timed. I have for some time suspected that provocateurs are promoting such divisive perspectives, but have no evidence beyond the virulence and vitrol spreading like wildfire and thinking someone must be setting the fires and fanning the flame... but frankly I don't think such is necessary to get to where things are.
Biden has been accused of raping a staffer decades ago.
The left has elected to hang him without a trial.
This is why Trump will be president for life and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their short, miserable lives.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you haven't already somewhere i would love a thread dedicated to your knowledge and analysis. I don't want to waste my time actually reading Land or digging for other shit in the pigpen, but a synopsis with searchable terms and concepts would do wonders for my ability to ridicule and satirize.
There's not much to say, unfortunately. Some XRW types have looked at the idea of accelerating social collapse through an existential war of all against all and said "that's great. Lets use terrorism, and biological warfare, and fears about climate change to feed into that and when everything falls down, we will swoop in and seize power".
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you haven't already somewhere i would love a thread dedicated to your knowledge and analysis. I don't want to waste my time actually reading Land or digging for other shit in the pigpen, but a synopsis with searchable terms and concepts would do wonders for my ability to ridicule and satirize.
There's not much to say, unfortunately. Some XRW types have looked at the idea of accelerating social collapse through an existential war of all against all and said "that's great. Lets use terrorism, and biological warfare, and fears about climate change to feed into that and when everything falls down, we will swoop in and seize power".
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/us-far-right-seeks-ways-to-exploit-coronavirus-and-cause-social-collapse
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkewgv/experts-say-neo-nazi-accelerationists-discuss-taking-advantage-of-coronavirus-crisis
https://www.adl.org/blog/white-supremacists-embrace-accelerationism
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:53:56 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you haven't already somewhere i would love a thread dedicated to your knowledge and analysis. I don't want to waste my time actually reading Land or digging for other shit in the pigpen, but a synopsis with searchable terms and concepts would do wonders for my ability to ridicule and satirize.
There's not much to say, unfortunately. Some XRW types have looked at the idea of accelerating social collapse through an existential war of all against all and said "that's great. Lets use terrorism, and biological warfare, and fears about climate change to feed into that and when everything falls down, we will swoop in and seize power".
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/us-far-right-seeks-ways-to-exploit-coronavirus-and-cause-social-collapse
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkewgv/experts-say-neo-nazi-accelerationists-discuss-taking-advantage-of-coronavirus-crisis
https://www.adl.org/blog/white-supremacists-embrace-accelerationism
The left is also guilty to some degree.
"If we hand this over to Trump again, it will show why we need the far left to run things."
Oh yeah, absolutely. Some of those articles even mention the tacit agreements between the left and right accelerationists on certain issues.
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:57:29 AM
Oh yeah, absolutely. Some of those articles even mention the tacit agreements between the left and right accelerationists on certain issues.
Off to read!
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:53:56 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 09, 2020, 01:12:03 AM
Quote from: Cain on April 09, 2020, 12:38:49 AM
Indeed. Accelerationlism as a philosophy is designed to inflict maximal damage, in order to bring down the state entirely. Damage mitigation would be against the point of the whole thing.
Trust me, I've watched the accelerationist/XRW networking over the past two years.
If you haven't already somewhere i would love a thread dedicated to your knowledge and analysis. I don't want to waste my time actually reading Land or digging for other shit in the pigpen, but a synopsis with searchable terms and concepts would do wonders for my ability to ridicule and satirize.
There's not much to say, unfortunately. Some XRW types have looked at the idea of accelerating social collapse through an existential war of all against all and said "that's great. Lets use terrorism, and biological warfare, and fears about climate change to feed into that and when everything falls down, we will swoop in and seize power".
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/11/11/20882005/accelerationism-white-supremacy-christchurch
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/us-far-right-seeks-ways-to-exploit-coronavirus-and-cause-social-collapse
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkewgv/experts-say-neo-nazi-accelerationists-discuss-taking-advantage-of-coronavirus-crisis
https://www.adl.org/blog/white-supremacists-embrace-accelerationism
Thanks for the links. I will examine them thoroughly. As for the silly fucks "swooping in" to seize power... they are not some noble raptor, as they might have conceit of themselves, but vultures who would rather pick rotten bones and brag about their hunting prowess to the other vultures than put in any such thing as effort. We will see who winds up prey if the system and the social order they foolishly seek to undo in a bid for power does in fact collapse. Those things are the only things currently protecting their dumb asses.
Edited for a little typo. I suck at typing and my laptop has a very small keyboard.
I've looked intothese atomwiffle fcks and mr.rpe is definitely someone I would love to have a meaningful, secluded "enhanced" conversation with, at great length.
Still going through the articles a bit at a time taking time to read most related hyperlinks embedded in the text. I'm thinking about their methodology and how to sew aphoria into their meme complex... more on that later. It may take a bit of extraordinary rendition and memetic restructuring.