I got a call from the school saying that my kids "have been hanging around the playground" after school with some of my oldest girl's friends, and that, apparently, is Not Permitted as All Students must be Off Campus by 3:15.
So, to recap: children are not allowed to play on the playground after school.
My oldest daughter calls me every time (from the school phone, in fact) to ask me if she may, and tells me who is there and how long she will stay. I know who these kids are, they are good kids and it is all 100% parent-approved.
I called the school to find out what on earth the story was, and the secretary made some comments about "unsupervised children" so I said "To clarify, we are talking about 12 and 13-year-olds, with cell phones, who are legally allowed to babysit or be out and about on their own" and she said "if the parents allow them to be running around unsupervised that is a family issue" in a tone that implied that letting young teenagers have any responsibility is Bad Parenting. Needless to say, I have pretty strong feelings about the entire interaction.
It may just be the secretary trying to bullshit me, in which case I am overreacting, but if this is actual Portland Public School policy, it will not stand. I have requested a written copy of it.
This is a modified (names removed) version of the letter I sent to the principal, the school board, a local community-activist blogger, and KATU channel 2:
QuoteI'm an ACCESS Academy parent and, as other parents are, since my oldest daughter turned of age to babysit and the weather warmed up, I have been allowing her to stay on the playground for a little while with friends after school, to play. The school is about eight blocks from my home, in a safe neighborhood, as you know - most neighborhood parents have their children walk to school - and of course, many people use the field and playground during off-hours.
My daughter is 12-1/2, recently completed CPR training, and her friends are between 12 and 14... all good kids with involved parents, about whom I have no concerns in terms of getting into trouble. My son, 10, likes to play ball and have races with his friends in the field.
However, today I received a phone call from the school secretary saying that children are not allowed to play on the playground after school, and that she was calling all the parents of the offending children to let them know. I asked her if that was a Portland Public Schools policy or just our school's policy, and at first she said she could only answer for our school, but later, when I stated that I was asking for clarification, said it is a PPS policy that applies to all schools. I found the conversation very upsetting and discouraging. My son stayed after school with friends to play in the field frequently last fall while he was still attending Sabin, and I was never notified of this school district policy.
My question is, is this a common policy nationwide? Is it a new policy? Is it something that I, as a parent, should already have been aware of? The secretary was very critical and gave the impression she believes I am a stupid, terrible parent for letting my children play "unsupervised" on the playground, but, while I realize that we live in a culture of protection, at 12 years old a child is legally (and this is widely socially accepted and practiced, not a mere formality) capable not only of supervising themselves, but of supervising younger children. Because of this, I do not see the logic behind not allowing children of this age to play or supervise younger children on the playground after school hours. I am also curious whether this is a pervasive or common policy, as it is new to me. The playground has baseball diamonds, a large field for running, as well as swings and a basketball court. I have often seen young neighborhood residents skateboarding or playing ball there during off-hours.
When I asked if the playground and fields are not public property, the secretary told me that the children can go to a public park, but must be off school grounds by 3:15pm, which did not answer my question. I was under the impression that the playground is also a public park. If the playground is a public park, is this policy legal? If it is not a public park, why is it open to the public off-hours for basketball or dogwalking? At what point after school hours do the children attending school cease being under the rule of school policy and become "neighborhood residents" to whom general use of the public areas is available? It seems to do children more harm than good to shut them off from it, as it offers them one less option for healthy, outdoor, non-troublemaking fun. I also wonder if that policy means that children will not be allowed to use the playground during the summer. Will school-age babysitters be allowed to bring their younger charges to the playground, or will that be against the policy?
Clearly, as would any parent, I want to know if my children are causing problems. I rely on the communication network of my fellow parents, as well as the tattletale instinct of other kids, to inform me if this happens. I need to know so I can discipline them for inappropriate behaviors, as well as reward them for behaving socially and responsibly. My children have a cell phone with them. I feel that I am taking a reasonable balance between teaching them caution and giving them the appropriate freedom to develop responsibility, self-awareness, and independence. The idea that children of an age to legally supervise themselves and other children may not play on the public, publicly-funded playground after school seems contrary to the statement that it's for safety reasons.
I have asked the principal for a copy of the policy so that I may better understand it. I think this is a serious issue for parents, especially in an educational climate where things like tag, hugging, and swingsets are being banned from schoolyards.
In Oregon, school playgrounds are public property weekends & after hours... people take their dogs there to play, use the basketball court, etc. I believe the posted rule is that you can't use it after dark, which is also true of other public park areas. I will find out exactly what the laws are for public use of school playgrounds, and whether a public school in Oregon can legally set a policy for students that prohibits them from the normal use of school playgrounds that all other residents are entitled to.
From talking to a few people so far, it sounds like the secretary was overstating the school's authority, and the policy (which is surely insurance-based) cannot cover the playground because it's open to the public after hours. I will find out for sure soon enough.
Oh, and a close family friend just happens to both live in my neighborhood AND be on the State school board, so I sent a copy of my letter to him.
I think I just became a "community activist"...
Oh my god, that is messed up...
Fight the bitch Nigel!
Soo over protective damn ...
So the school wants the kids to get out after school's over? I don't quite see the big deal.
ETA: Oh, nevermind, didn't know it was public property where you're at.
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:05:29 AM
So the school wants the kids to get out after school's over? I don't quite see the big deal.
Taxpayer money pays for the playground. The kids aren't doing anything wrong.
But I suppose it WOULD be better if they went and hung out in a non-public place, right?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:05:29 AM
So the school wants the kids to get out after school's over? I don't quite see the big deal.
Taxpayer money pays for the playground. The kids aren't doing anything wrong.
But I suppose it WOULD be better if they went and hung out in a non-public place, right?
Yeah, nevermind, my brain is kinda fizzed out and I wasn't thinking right
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:11:42 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:05:29 AM
So the school wants the kids to get out after school's over? I don't quite see the big deal.
Taxpayer money pays for the playground. The kids aren't doing anything wrong.
But I suppose it WOULD be better if they went and hung out in a non-public place, right?
Yeah, nevermind, my brain is kinda fizzed out and I wasn't thinking right
These things happen.
It's hard to say if this is an insurance thing, or just a "prick in the school administration" thing.
I just thought they wouldn't want to be held accountable for kids after 3:15. Would they be, anyway?
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:45:02 AM
I just thought they wouldn't want to be held accountable for kids after 3:15. Would they be, anyway?
I'm still waiting for answers, but for children over the age of being allowed to "sign themselves out", no. Younger children have to wait for a parent or other designated person to officially pick them up. However, as far as I can tell so far, according to the
law, once the child is officially discharged from the school session, whether by self or by parent, depending on age and what waivers the parent has signed (I had to sign a waiver to let my kids walk home), the school cannot prohibit children from playing on the playground, either supervised or alone, as long as they are over the age at which children can be left at home alone, which is 10 in Oregon. If they are under age 10, playing unsupervised, it could be considered neglect and would be a police matter, not a Portland Public Schools matter. Further, children age 12 and above who are legally allowed to supervise younger children can, well, supervise younger children. There are, of course, additional laws about how many younger children and how young they can be, but in this instance they are not relevant.
Blogger dude posted a slightly earlier version of my letter:
http://bojack.org/2010/04/schools_over_for_the_day_kids.html
Useful comments, especially from the lawyer. I was also really happy that Jack provided Oregon's legal term (Open Space) for the zoning of parks and playgrounds, because that means I can look it up and, if this supposed school policy actually exists and I am able to get a copy of it, I can check to see if it conflicts with the law.
That's messed up. Fight the Power, Nigel!
I'MA GET POLITICAL ON THEIR ASSES.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Quote from: Idem on April 23, 2010, 02:05:29 AM
So the school wants the kids to get out after school's over? I don't quite see the big deal.
Taxpayer money pays for the playground. The kids aren't doing anything wrong.
But I suppose it WOULD be better if they went and hung out in a non-public place, right?
Behind the dumpsters at the 7-11, maybe. ;)
The more I find out, the more indicates that this policy, if it exists, would be illegal. Oregon, and Portland in particular, has pretty unique laws about public spaces, and school playgrounds are zoned "OS" for "Open Space", same as parks. The only restriction is that during school hours, the grounds are for school use only... and at many schools here, even that is not the case because the playground is on Park & Rec land.
I am rather expecting a carefully-drafted email on Monday, explaining that the secretary was "mistaken".
No reply from the principal. I was expecting at least a "I'm so sorry you're unhappy with the situation, let me look into this further" message today. My ex is working an internship with City Planning; I just talked to him and he says that if we don't hear back from the principal or the school board by midweek next week, he will arrange a meeting with the mayor and some of the City Planning folks. The mayor is already aware of the situation because of Jack's blog.
In the meantime, I have told my daughter to continue doing exactly as she has been, and that if the secretary says anything to her about it, to have her call me, and to also tell me about it, in case she doesn't. When last I checked in, about an hour ago, my daughter and her two alarmingly tall friends were in the school office, giggling and calling their mothers to ask if they could stay after school. The secretary was exceptionally cold to me, but didn't say a word about it. I have not spoken to the other mothers yet, but their girls have also not altered their routine.
Incidentally, while I was at the school this afternoon, a mother picking up her kid fell and twisted her ankle in a hole on school grounds. Maybe next they'll try to prohibit parents from picking their children up at the school, because someone could get hurt...
What a joke.
Kick their collective asses, Nigel. This is utter bullshit.
yeah, this is most certainly a case of "insurance" wagging the dog. ugh. Good for you, Nigel. Get their asses.
I, I... I can't believe they regulate that kind of thing.
Are there rules telling you what sock to put on first too?
Quote from: Regret on April 24, 2010, 07:28:13 AM
I, I... I can't believe they regulate that kind of thing.
Are there rules telling you what sock to put on first too?
LAND OF THE FREE, BITCHES.
Quote from: Regret on April 24, 2010, 07:28:13 AM
I, I... I can't believe they regulate that kind of thing.
Are there rules telling you what sock to put on first too?
In schools? There can be.
Parent volunteer organizations need their OWN insurance riders (shit you not) to do simple little after-school events. If you have a school district like mine, they're pretty chill about it. But hoodoggie you have one little event that causes a kerfuffle, and it's chainmail-insurance tiem. That's the way the ball bounces...esp with government. I think we often forget that public school IS, after all, THE GUMMAMENT.
They are just trying to make sure kids are getting their daily dose of Grand Theft Auto, it teaches good life lessons ya know.
Quote from: SchizoNegro on April 26, 2010, 04:45:34 AM
They are just trying to make sure kids are getting their daily dose of Grand Theft Auto, it teaches good life lessons ya know.
:kingmeh:
The principal tried to call me in response to my email today.
I know this game. I will have none of it. I will call tomorrow evening thanking him for trying to reply by phone, but that since I have a day job email is much easier for me, or perhaps he'd like to arrange a meeting with the child's father and I, by which time surely he will have had enough time to print us a copy of the policy.
That as absolutely assanine. I can't believe they're actually trying to regulate that shit. That's. Ugh.
Tear them a new asshole.
I replied to him with the following email, cc'd to the kids' father:
QuoteMr. S---,
I received your voicemail from yesterday morning... thank you, I appreciate the time you took to call! However, both J---'s father and I are occupied during the day with work and school, so email is far more effective, as well as being the best way to keep Mr. A--- in the loop... I'm sure you understand! If you would prefer to set up an in-person meeting between the three of us, that works for me as well. That would also give you a chance to print off a couple of copies of that policy for us.
Thanks!
-K---
If I don't get an appropriate response to this, the next email will be cc'd to the school board.
Quote from: SchizoNegro on April 26, 2010, 04:45:34 AM
They are just trying to make sure kids are getting their daily dose of Grand Theft Auto, it teaches good life lessons ya know.
KEEP 'EM AT HOME
IN FRONT OF THE TV
GETTING EVER FATTER
AND BEING BETTER CONSUMERS.
Annnd, in the nick of time! An email from the principal:
Quote
Thanks for the email the other day. I was out in the afternoon last Thursday and I was also gone all day Friday, so when I was finally able to read your email, it was Monday and I wanted to give you a call to clear up this issue. I'll do my best in this email, but if you have any other questions or concerns, please let me know and I'll try to address them.
It looks like there was a miscommunication and misunderstanding between my secretary and myself on Thursday morning last week. I was told that there were students who were unsupervised after school last week and I assumed she meant that they were under the age of 10 years old. Typically, when we have students this young left unsupervised here at school, we call home to let the parents/guardians know and we arrange to have them either picked up or someone comes to supervise them. I did not know my secretary was talking about older students, so when I repeated that we call home to let parents know, she took that as she needed to call the parents of the children who were on campus the previous day and let them know that they could not remain on campus unsupervised. When I got back to school on Monday (I was out on Friday), I realized what had happened and I gave you a call to try and clear up this misunderstanding. The district does not have a policy concerning supervision for students before and after school. The district wants all schools to let parents/guardians know when supervision is provided, but that before and after this time, the school is not responsible for students who arrive on campus. For our school, we begin supervision at 8:15 am and we end at 3:15 pm. Students who are in grades 1-4 should have adult supervision. If they have an older sibling with them, in grades 5-8, they can also remain on campus as long as their sibling is supervising them. Students who are in grades 5-8 can remain on campus without adult supervision. If there are issues with the students outside of the supervised times, we do contact parents to let them know what is happening with their student.
I hope this clears things up, but if not, please do not hesitate to give me a call or send me an email. I know as the weather gets better, students will want to stay on campus to socialize with their friends and we want to make sure they are safe.
Thanks,
All is right in my world. :)
Also, now that I KNOW for a fact that the secretary is a LYING LIAR I will treat everything she tells me with suspicion. That was no "misunderstanding"; she got bitchy with me when I asked her to clarify the "policy" and repeated it back to her, because she knew she was lying but wouldn't back down.
FLAWLESS VICTORY.
Kick ass. Way to go, Nigel. :D
A WINNAR IS NIGEL
That's good. I was worried that everything about school was turning into shit after all.
Nope, not the whole school... just one untrustworthy desk-jockey with a control issue.
My motto is "Don't Fuck With Me", and it extends to my kids.
I am entertaining the shit out of myself by wondering how many days in a row I would have to go sit in the office with my laptop and giggle before the kids get out of class and I tell them they can play on the playground, and then leave them there, before the secretary would lose her shit. I bet I can get her to quit. I bet I could do it in only 15 minutes a day.
Nice!
I'm a little late, per usual, but I'm glad this worked out. Otherwise I'd be all like :crankey:
Thanks! I am too, because it's the best fucking school in town and I'd be pissed if it let me down, or that, fuck-all forbid, the whole DISTRICT let me down, it being a district I hold in some esteem.
but I thought you lived in the PPS district?
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on May 04, 2010, 05:27:43 AM
but I thought you lived in the PPS district?
:lulz:
Yes. Nonetheless, I hold it in some esteem, mostly for doing something with nothing.
True. They have managed to achieve a high school graduation rate of nearly 60%!
Needless to say, ECHGF and I will be moving when it's time to have a kid, unless we're in a position to be able to afford Lake Oswego schools.
Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on May 04, 2010, 07:32:13 AM
Needless to say, ECHGF and I will be moving when it's time to have a kid, unless we're in a position to be able to afford Lake Oswego schools.
Fuck Lake Oswego schools, are you kidding me? Why would you want your kids to go to school with those fucks? It'll just scar them emotionally and socially.
PPS has a 68.5% graduation rate (this does not count kids who get their GEDs), which of course varies a great deal from school to school; For example, Benson's graduation rate is 92.9, Lincoln's is 94.6, MLC's is 96.8, and Grant (the one my kids want to go to) is 91.5. The main predictor of school success and high school graduation is parental involvement. People like to blame the school districts and the teachers, but kids will do a lot with a little if the parents are involved. PPS also has a number of excellent magnet schools and charter schools, including a dedicated magnet school for kids in the 99th percentile for academic potential/achievement. Compare this with many districts which offer TAG kids nothing but an unfunded mandate.
There are also several high schools in the PPS system with astonishingly low graduation rates, which pulls the average down profoundly. BizTech High School has 46.4, and Alliance High School has 44.1. Alliance is in the same area as Grant, so of course, it makes sense to ask why the graduation rate is so incredibly low: http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/profiles/?id=313.
Oh.
It doesn't explicitly say, but it gives enough reference to gather that this is a high school for special-needs students.
Then I look up Biztech and find that it's on the Marshall Campus, which houses the other three lowest-scoring schools in the district. http://www.marshall.pps.k12.or.us/ A little more digging reveals that these are ALL special needs/struggling student schools. These are the schools that bring down PPS's graduation rate, but in my opinion they should not serve as a condemnation of the PPS system; many other school systems don't even TRY to accommodate these kids. This is not to say that there isn't a place for special-needs kids in the regular high schools; they are not pushed out. It is the parent's choice, and in the case of older struggling students, the students' own choice to transfer to these schools. In some districts, these are kids who wouldn't be tracked at all because they would never enter high school in the first place.
Speaking as a mother, I am not only satisfied with, but impressed by what PPS does for its students, all on a shoestring budget.
Oh yeah, here's a chart:
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/news/392.htm
wow, that was actually really educational and eye-opening. PPS should consider hiring you for its PR team.
seriously though, thanks for the info!
They don't call me "Spin Doctor K" for nothing. :thanks:
This is the nastiness that is "judging a school on its test scores alone" schtick that a lot of folks apply while choosing schools/neighborhoods. We have an EXCELLENT school, but its API has been slowly dropping and not really stabilizing much because we DO get an inordinate amount of IEPs. The school district has given us a lot of quality teachers, and we have some fabulous parents (if I do say so myself) who've been filling in the gaps, but we also have a lot of IEP students as well. Those will ALWAYS drive down your API scores. Always. It's up the to the school district to make the caveat when speaking with parents about the scores, but of course they probably CAN'T since that's probably dilatory and against the state laws or some such shit.
I'm not DOWN on IEP kids, btw. Their parents and teachers have to work so fucking hard. But I do expect the district to make up for the need for extra support by GIVING it, federal (unfunded, fuckitall) mandates aside. Nothing's shittier than realizing that your administrator can't handle her/his shit because s/he's always dealing with the IEP kids...so your kid gets to be bullied for 5 years. That shit sucks ass.
Districts who can take care of bidness and figure out where to help ALL, EQUALLY are the ones you want to look for--and schools that show that are the ones you want to "patronize."