What's the target audience of the BIP pamphlet?
Is it aimed at sleepwalking Discordians?
or at the general sleepwalking public?
As anectdotal evidence shows, the BIP is for Smart People.
Stupid people don't seem to "get it".
LMNO
-feeling assholish today.
Has Laz replied?
Oh, crap. I forgot.
I'll send him something during lunch.
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 03:31:56 PM
As anectdotal evidence shows, the BIP is for Smart People.
Stupid people don't seem to "get it".
LMNO
-feeling assholish today.
Do you think there's anything that stupid people
would get? Is it worth even bothering to try or do the mainstream religions have the right idea - make them docile and fleece them for every penny they own.
Stupid people get alot of things. Sex appeal, monetary gain, apparent immunity from doing things wrong (because they are stupid, which is one step off insane, I am reliably informed) and a ton of other stuff. They never feel lonely or in doubt either.
Quote from: Cain on January 23, 2007, 03:56:08 PM
Stupid people get alot of things.  Sex appeal, monetary gain, apparent immunity from doing things wrong (because they are stupid, which is one step off insane, I am reliably informed) and a ton of other stuff.  They never feel lonely or in doubt either.
But they're stupid. That would seem to make them sorta subhuman or less worthy than smart people. Is it right to use them? Con tricks work really well on stupid people. I should know I used to follow that line of work, seperating idiots from their cash. I started to get a guilt thing going on and I don't think I would do it now but, at the same time, they're stupid - isn't that as good a use for them as any?
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 23, 2007, 03:27:19 PM
What's the target audience of the BIP pamphlet?
Is it aimed at sleepwalking Discordians?
or at the general sleepwalking public?
In a perfect world it would be both, but as others have pointed out the second one is a tough nut to crack judged by attempts to spread the idea on the internets. It's been posted in many different areas, forums for pagans, christians, Steve Jackson fan bois, metal heads, etc.. If it isn't just outright ignored, it is met with ignorant indifference.
Honestly, "New Ideas" just aren't welcome with opened arms in Western society unless it comes from Bill Gates or a cell phone company.
This threat is starting to smell pretty Righteous. Sounds like "people who think like us are better / more evolved than people who don't think like us."
Assuming he's talking about the same kind of stupidity as LMNO, SillyCybin's suggesting that people who don't "get" the BIP are less than human?
Quote from: Cain on January 23, 2007, 03:56:08 PM
[[stupid people have]] apparent immunity from doing things wrong... They never feel lonely or in doubt either.
If that's the case, then I've never met a stupid person. :-P
But the pamphlet itself - is it designed to be read on the web by Discordians who think they've got it all figured out? Or to be left in public to startle the sleepwalkers? Or is wondering that not part of the picture?
edit: Rev. answered the above question, thanks
Actually, I gotta agree with the Prof. This is starting to stink abit of stupid people aren't really people. And I don't like that.
That might have been started by me... Hence the "feeling assholish" tag line.
Anyway,
I leave it around at clubs and bars, and on the subway.  
I also use them on various forums.
I don't know the "success rate", but I know that if I found something like that on the train, I'd be psyched.
Just read Rogers awesome rant in the other thread and it got me to thinking - Maybe we're as much to blame as the stupids.
Example: An idiot turns up here, after reading PD and getting the wrong end of the stick. But still he came here, he's in safe hands, we can put him straight. But what do we actually do? Simple - we let him post 50 times then rip him to shreds with intellects that must seem huge and terrifying to the average stupid. And they run away back to their nice, safe, stupid corner, never to examine new ideas ever again.
Why? Because stupids are annoying. But what if you could grab a borderline and bring them round? Befriend the tard, patiently point out the error of their ways. Teach them how to think, in a logical and sentient manner.
Then steal their wallet and fuck off in their car.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 23, 2007, 04:16:46 PMAssuming he's talking about the same kind of stupidity as LMNO, SillyCybin's suggesting that people who don't "get" the BIP are less than human?
Playing devils advocate as usual. (just in case you got the wrong end of the stick - I don't have jackboots)
Some people who come here don't want new ideas, they want to tell the same old jokes, and/or waste our time with boring shit. For as many people who tell a n00b to fuck off, there are just as many telling them not to worry about the asshats.
If they don't want to learn stuff, and be challeneged (unmercifully), then they leave.
There's also the assumption that "stupidity" is static.  I think we've all pointed out at one time or another that just because someone becomes enlightened to the BIP doesn't mean they are out of the woods.  It doesn't mean that they will not descend into "stupidity", nor crawl back out of it.  
I don't think it is a matter of stupid vs. non-stupid.  It's more a matter of being open to possibilities besides what you've been taught to entertain.  
Also, let's all be honest and admit that everyone on this board has acted incredibly stupid at one time or another.
We are not immune to and attack of the stupids.
Hah, so says you!
Cain,
drawing diagrams for the masses
Well, ok. Yeah.
EXCEPT FOR CAIN.
There.
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 04:36:17 PM
Well, ok.  Yeah.
EXCEPT FOR CAIN.
There.
K I can go along with that now.
I fall victim to stupidity on a daily basis, just ask my wife.
[rimshot]
but seriously....
I think what can be frustrating, when considering an audience, is that I think we can all think about people, be they groups or singular, who we know would be open to these ideas. I know myself personally that these ideas really aren't new to me, but they are new to me under this umbrella called BIP. The trick is how to get them under the umbrella and out from the rain. And I think that's why the pamphlet idea may, in the long run, be more productive than posting on forums or taking it to other online communities. I think people are probably, in general, more willing to entertain new ideas when they are alone or in a very small group. Group mentality can often times create a barrier as I think we've all encountered at various on-line enclaves.
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 04:27:56 PM
Also, let's all be honest and admit that everyone on this board has acted incredibly stupid at one time or another.
We are not immune to and attack of the stupids.
speaking of stupidity
i just put some left over chinese food in the oven, turn it on and sat around waiting for it heat up...
check up on it in 10 minutes and it was still cold
then i realized after turning the over on I forgot to raise the heat up to the desired tempature
:lol:
What are stupid people?
I look back at myself and think "man you were a huge dumbfuck for years."
But I'm not sure I was dumb. I think I just spent years with my Standard Issue Blinders on. I wasn't stupid all that time, just decieved and naive.
How do you guys differentiate?
I dunno. I was just being an asshole.
I will continue to assume that everyone is stupid monkeys then.
So long that it's self-inclusive, I say that's a pretty good assumption.
personal responsibility ITT
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 04:18:32 PM
That might have been started by me... Hence the "feeling assholish" tag line.
Anyway,
I leave it around at clubs and bars, and on the subway.
I also use them on various forums.
I don't know the "success rate", but I know that if I found something like that on the train, I'd be psyched.
So if I'm ever on the Orange line and see BIP literature, I'll know who to blame.
If you ever see BIP literature on the O line, please pick it up, read a bit, and start screaming in horror.
Marketing, ftw.
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 06:51:19 PM
So long that it's self-inclusive, I say that's a pretty good assumption.
No doubt. I thought Van Wilder was going to be funny.
Hunter - broke his prognosticator gland in a fight with an 8 year old.
I personally like to leave them in the rest areas on the Maine Pike.  I figure the truckers might appreciate some reading material while they are waiting for their dates.  
here's a thought (based on LMNOs marketing response)
step 1: get onto train
step 2: 'accidently' discover a copy of BIP
step 3: make a show of appropriate BIP approval yummy noises
step 4: (for those who like to talk) attempt to engage other passengers in coversation concerning your reading material
or step 4: leave BIP material in plain site and exit train. (if you're not big into talking to strangers).
i'm thinking along the lines of 'monkey see, monkey do' principle. would a person be more likely to read a copy of BIP on the train if they've already witnessed someone doing it before them?
They probably would be more likely to pick it up. So then at least they aren't the only weirdo. I wonder if that would work in a Pediatrics Waiting Room.
another idea:
requires 2 BIPs.
BIP 1 is a distributor
BIP 2 is the reader
BIP 1 distributes the pamphlets. BIP 2 comes along after and 'finds' it. then carries out previous idea. (looks more authentic and accidental)
or, maybe a good way to go would be to find people who are already reading (in whatever location), sit down, take out a copy of BIP then ask other people what they're reading. then say: "i found this" and see if you can get anyone to bite. if they do say "well, i'm done with this so you can have it".
seeing people read it might act as encouragement. getting people to take a copy off you is good too. obviously, standing around and doling them out is a waste of time and most will end up on the ground, but if someone takes your copy of their own free will, then i would hazard a guess that they'd be more willing to read it. it makes it more of a personal object rather than some random paperwork found on a bench.
These are good ideas.
I've also found that when I leave a stack on a bar counter or on tables at shows, people will pick it up & read it between bands out of boredom.
I saw one guy pick up the "Machine,Ñ¢" Pamphlet, and proceeded to read it for the next hour, even when the bands were playing. It made my night.
Quote from: LMNO on January 23, 2007, 07:54:09 PM
These are good ideas.
I've also found that when I leave a stack on a bar counter or on tables at shows, people will pick it up & read it between bands out of boredom.
I saw one guy pick up the "Machine,Ñ¢" Pamphlet, and proceeded to read it for the next hour, even when the bands were playing.¬† It made my night.
that's cool. very cool in fact.
maybe we need to gather together distribution strategies. perhaps we can test out which techniques are most likely to get someone to read. obviously, the anonymous 'drop & run' method is the easiest to employ, but then it's hard to gauge who is picking them up (if at all) and what their response might be.
I think the booklet itself needs to be slightly more "consumer friendly", more easy for the random stranger to pick up and resonate with. I've been wrestling with this pamphlet for a few weeks now. If you guys care, I'm working on a big post about it, and some suggestions.
Quote from: Professor Cramulus on January 23, 2007, 08:16:21 PM
I think the booklet itself needs to be slightly more "consumer friendly", more easy for the random stranger to pick up and resonate with. I've been wrestling with this pamphlet for a few weeks now. If you guys care, I'm working on a big post about it, and some suggestions.
go for it. anything that helps get it out there is a plus.
speaking of publications is it just me or has the SBOTD thing stalled a bit.
Clockwork Orange approach for the win. Same scenario - you go on a train, but this time you kidnap the 'customer', drag them back to a shady basement somewhere, tie them to a chair, prop their eyelids open with matchsticks and RSVP(check out my sig) the whole thing to them over and over again til they start foaming at the mouth.
Customers can be released back into the wild, in a park somewhere with a stack of pamphlets. See what happens next...
I wonder if there are any quirky book-clubs that it could be worked into.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:38:25 PM
I wonder if there are any quirky book-clubs that it could be worked into. 
1.join a regular book club (they often have them at Barnes & Noble for instance)
2. read whatever book is up for discussion
3. attempt to link the topic book with BIP as often as possible
4. see if people pick up on the idea
8-)
all joking aside though, because BIP is reading matter, then you already have limited your target audience to people who can be bothered to read. so it makes sense to leave the pamphlet in places where people are likely to read.
Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii on January 23, 2007, 08:43:57 PM
all joking aside though, because BIP is reading matter, then you already have limited your target audience to people who can be bothered to read. so it makes sense to leave the pamphlet in places where people are likely to read.
Which, of course, means we need to develop a BIP movie or musical.
"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages! One man dared to take on The Machine! One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison. That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:53:23 PM
Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii on January 23, 2007, 08:43:57 PM
all joking aside though, because BIP is reading matter, then you already have limited your target audience to people who can be bothered to read. so it makes sense to leave the pamphlet in places where people are likely to read.
Which, of course, means we need to develop a BIP movie or musical. 
"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages!  One man dared to take on The Machine!  One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison.  That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
if you could get a gameshow out of it or nudity (possibly combined) then there's a chance for BIP to exist outside of the reading population.
I think of stupidity more like a habit. People with functioning brains are people even if they act like a Brit did all the wiring in thier heads. I think it's a matter of getting people in the habit of doing what's "wise" and being able to express it.
Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii on January 23, 2007, 09:12:56 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:53:23 PM
Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii on January 23, 2007, 08:43:57 PM
all joking aside though, because BIP is reading matter, then you already have limited your target audience to people who can be bothered to read. so it makes sense to leave the pamphlet in places where people are likely to read.
Which, of course, means we need to develop a BIP movie or musical.
"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages! One man dared to take on The Machine! One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison. That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
if you could get a gameshow out of it or nudity (possibly combined) then there's a chance for BIP to exist outside of the reading population.
Idea for a quick skit, advertising reality show - celebrity BIP. Show clips of celebrities in the BIP (real world) and funny commentary as if it was big brother or survivor or something.
I know I would be intersted in watching a roundtable of people discussing ideas such as "the lie" and other BIP ideas. Of course, that would probably be a PBS-type show and thus not much viewership, but maybe if it were kind of sexed up like Mangrove suggested people would tune in.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:53:23 PM
Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii on January 23, 2007, 08:43:57 PM
all joking aside though, because BIP is reading matter, then you already have limited your target audience to people who can be bothered to read. so it makes sense to leave the pamphlet in places where people are likely to read.
Which, of course, means we need to develop a BIP movie or musical.
"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages! One man dared to take on The Machine! One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison. That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
Actually, I have considered a Discordian type work before, much in the way of L'Entrager or something similar.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 24, 2007, 01:38:07 PM
I know I would be intersted in watching a roundtable of people discussing ideas such as "the lie" and other BIP ideas.  Of course, that would probably be a PBS-type show and thus not much viewership, but maybe if it were kind of sexed up like Mangrove suggested people would tune in. 
Have the panelists do shots of tequila, and the backdrop should be pictures of naked people.
Quote from: LMNO on January 24, 2007, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 24, 2007, 01:38:07 PM
I know I would be intersted in watching a roundtable of people discussing ideas such as "the lie" and other BIP ideas. Of course, that would probably be a PBS-type show and thus not much viewership, but maybe if it were kind of sexed up like Mangrove suggested people would tune in.
Have the panelists do shots of tequila, and the backdrop should be pictures of naked people.
I'd tune in for that. Drunk presenters are the best. The Brits will know what I mean if I mention Terry Wogan and Eurovision as an example.
Quote from: Cain on January 24, 2007, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: LMNO on January 24, 2007, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 24, 2007, 01:38:07 PM
I know I would be intersted in watching a roundtable of people discussing ideas such as "the lie" and other BIP ideas.  Of course, that would probably be a PBS-type show and thus not much viewership, but maybe if it were kind of sexed up like Mangrove suggested people would tune in. 
Have the panelists do shots of tequila, and the backdrop should be pictures of naked people.
I'd tune in for that.  Drunk presenters are the best.  The Brits will know what I mean if I mention Terry Wogan and Eurovision as an example.
Fuck yeah - there's nothing quite like watching the train wreck that was george best on the wogan show!
The problem with this idea is that we have to get at least 5 BIP Discordians in the same room at the same time.
Hmm, that would be quite the challenge.
However, some of the better rants could be recorded, and then animated, a la SNL's "Fun With Real Audio" bits.
I've been trying for some time to get permission to record TGRR's sermons.
Uh, Skype and podcasts.
Duh, we already have POEE.
Damn I feel like a moron for not realizing this before.
Ok, new thread coming.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:53:23 PM"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages!  One man dared to take on The Machine!  One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison.  That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
TO THE BARSTOOL-MOBILE, CAPTAIN BARSTOOL!!
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4964/barstooljr8.jpg)
:mittens:
Quote from: triple zero on January 24, 2007, 02:39:52 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on January 23, 2007, 08:53:23 PM"In a world, full of Greyfaces and Cabbages! One man dared to take on The Machine! One bar at a time, he uncovered the mysteries and myths of the Black Iron Prison. That man, was.........Captain Barstool!"
TO THE BARSTOOL-MOBILE, CAPTAIN BARSTOOL!!
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4964/barstooljr8.jpg)
Available for 20 easy payments of just 19.99!
Seriously though, LMNO, what do you think of me, perhaps, slipping a few pamphlets into say, all of the papers in a Phoenix, Improper Bostonian (lawl) or Metro box? Or could I get in deep shit if I'm caught?
I do it all the time.
I haven't gotten into trouble yet.
Forward, soldier!
I think I'm going to hand some over to the bums in front of South Station on my way home. Bwahahaha.
"I don't have any money, but here's some guidance..."
My only problem is that I don't have access to mass producing xerox machines. I'll have to figure something out in that area...otherwise, the kiddos and I are hitting the beaches this Summer and flyering away!
Jenne, do you live in the US? I can never remember.
Quote from: LMNO on January 25, 2007, 12:56:19 PM
Jenne, do you live in the US? 
No
pretty sure she lives in California
(http://www.roland.co.jp/cs/faq/jp/sysimg/JP05-10222/PD_rimshot.gif)
I meant FREE xeroxing, doof! :lol:
Well, I was going to offer to send you a package of pamphlet material, as my co has free xerox & ups services, but nevermind... :wink:
:( Missed opportunities ITT.
I can pay postage! :D
Quote from: Jenne on January 25, 2007, 07:14:44 PM
:( Missed opportunities ITT.
I can pay postage! :D
If you can pay postage surely you can afford a trip to the local copy center? Who knows, if you leave the original lying in the copier when ur finished one of the clerks might pick it up, read it and see the light. You know most of those guys (in fact all of them) work in copy centers?
Quote from: SillyCybin on January 25, 2007, 07:17:38 PM
Quote from: Jenne on January 25, 2007, 07:14:44 PM
:( Missed opportunities ITT.
I can pay postage! :D
If you can pay postage surely you can afford a trip to the local copy center? Who knows, if you leave the original lying in the copier when ur finished one of the clerks might pick it up, read it and see the light. You know most of those guys (in fact all of them) work in copy centers?
Media mail costs are CHEAP compared to copying costs. And paper costs.
Srsly.
Oh shit, LMNO has free UPS, anyway! Ha!
Sign me up, d00d! I missed that part.
Um...you need my addie...(if offer = still open, that is)
If you actually trust some schmuck on an internet Discordian forum, you can PM me your address.
YOU I've been told to trust.
(won't go into it bout the rest of you schmucks)
LMNO is from the internets. Fine upstanding gentleman. I'll vouch for him if that helps.
That's like me trusting ECH to give me a tour of St. Thomas...An island...in the Caribbean...
Whereas I work in the same city as LMNO and never plan to meet him. I like that air of mystery in my life.
Full disclosure: I'm actually stalking you. That bum you keep running into on your way to work, the one with the "Spare Change" newspaper? That's me.
Quote from: LMNO on January 26, 2007, 12:54:03 PM
Full disclosure: I'm actually stalking you. That bum you keep running into on your way to work, the one with the "Spare Change" newspaper? That's me.
The guy who keeps checking his pockets, giving copious ammounts of coinage a loud rattle, before looking at you apologetically and saying "sorry bud I don't seem to have any" - that's me
Why would I be stalking YUO?
You're not a hot chick who's into corsets.
I'm stalking you. To be more precise - I have you under surveillance.
*edit* but you can trust me - I'm from the internets
Quote from: kaousuu on January 26, 2007, 12:32:41 AM
That's like me trusting ECH to give me a tour of St. Thomas...An island...in the Caribbean...
Whereas I work in the same city as LMNO and never plan to meet him. I like that air of mystery in my life.
Actually, ECH is the only person from this board I've actually met in person and I would vouch for him and say you can trust him.