Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Principia Discussion => Topic started by: MrFrizzleFry on March 03, 2009, 03:15:54 AM

Title: Moral Absurdism
Post by: MrFrizzleFry on March 03, 2009, 03:15:54 AM
The belief that all human attempts to find a universal moral and ethic code will fail, and that adherence to any moral code or pursuit of moral truths is meaningless. A combination of moral nihilism and absurdism, it does not state that it is impossible to find purpose in life, but it is impossible to find a universal moral and ethic code. It is personally based off of the moral and ethic code I believe are presented in Discordian works such as the Principia Discordia, and the Illuminatus! Trilogy. Do you think that this is a resonable moral and ethic code to live by PD?
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Torodung on March 03, 2009, 04:02:48 AM
I believe that reason and rationalization are overrated. They cause the human condition, in fact. Even when the human race was getting its ass kicked during the black plague, you would have people that would go from town to town beating the crap out of themselves. Rusty steel burrs stuck in their purple blood streaked backs, weeping and laughing, looting and praying, and generally scaring the crap out of everyone, especially those in "power." More than the plague scared the powerful, because the plague was reasonably mindless and there was a fair chance it wasn't going to come get them in the middle of the night.

You know, that's what people who weren't dropping dead did. What is this about morality? It's a luxury and a choice.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Precious Moments Zalgo on March 03, 2009, 04:05:44 AM
Quote from: anthraxcat on March 03, 2009, 03:15:54 AM
The belief that all human attempts to find a universal moral and ethic code will fail, and that adherence to any moral code or pursuit of moral truths is meaningless. A combination of moral nihilism and absurdism, it does not state that it is impossible to find purpose in life, but it is impossible to find a universal moral and ethic code. It is personally based off of the moral and ethic code I believe are presented in Discordian works such as the Principia Discordia, and the Illuminatus! Trilogy. Do you think that this is a resonable moral and ethic code to live by PD?
I read a book where a guy came up with an easy to sum up moral code, that is to live your life in such a way as to maximize the number of people who will miss you when you are gone.  However, I've lost people I care about and I know how painful that is.  Everyone dies, and it seems that this lifestyle would do nothing but maximize the pain that your death will cause to others, so this seems kind of selfish.  Better to live as an absolute bastard, and have people rejoice when you die.

Sorry, that wasn't the serious answer you were looking for.

I don't think it's possible to come up with hard and fast rules of ethics that will apply in all situations.  I think the best we can do is come up with workable rules-of-thumb, and apply empathy and common sense.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 03, 2009, 04:07:53 AM
Quote from: anthraxcat on March 03, 2009, 03:15:54 AM
The belief that all human attempts to find a universal moral and ethic code will fail, and that adherence to any moral code or pursuit of moral truths is meaningless. A combination of moral nihilism and absurdism, it does not state that it is impossible to find purpose in life, but it is impossible to find a universal moral and ethic code. It is personally based off of the moral and ethic code I believe are presented in Discordian works such as the Principia Discordia, and the Illuminatus! Trilogy. Do you think that this is a resonable moral and ethic code to live by PD?

Yes.

This is why Ayn Rand is such a fucking failure.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Precious Moments Zalgo on March 03, 2009, 04:11:54 AM
Quote from: Torodung on March 03, 2009, 04:02:48 AMIt's a luxury and a choice.
Yeah.  It's easy to live by your principles when you have a full stomach.  For someone whose family is homeless, sick, and starving, I imagine that ethics might be an unaffordable luxury.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 03, 2009, 04:13:25 AM
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on March 03, 2009, 04:11:54 AM
Quote from: Torodung on March 03, 2009, 04:02:48 AMIt's a luxury and a choice.
Yeah.  It's easy to live by your principles when you have a full stomach.  For someone whose family is homeless, sick, and starving, I imagine that ethics might be an unaffordable luxury.

Then just drop on your forepaws and lead them back into the jungle.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: A.N. Other on March 03, 2009, 05:23:05 AM
Quote from: Pastor-Mullah Zappathruster on March 03, 2009, 04:11:54 AM
Quote from: Torodung on March 03, 2009, 04:02:48 AMIt's a luxury and a choice.
Yeah.  It's easy to live by your principles when you have a full stomach. For someone whose family is homeless, sick, and starving, I imagine that ethics might be an unaffordable luxury.

Social situation doesn't necessarily make one go against their principles. Poor, rich, hungry or not, everyone (or most everyone) betrays their morals at some point.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Jasper on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Honey on March 03, 2009, 11:43:51 AM
Someone here (I think it was 000) once linked to this essay:

THE BASIC LAWS OF HUMAN STUPIDITY
by Carlo M. Cipolla
illustrations by James Donnelly


http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~leeey/stupidity/basic.htm


I thought it was excellent & useful.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 03, 2009, 06:09:56 PM
I enjoyed it greatly, not least because it defines stupidity in a way that has nothing to do with IQ, but with behavior.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: zen_magick on March 03, 2009, 06:42:43 PM
I think it is absurd to look for any "universals" moral or otherwise, but that's just me.
To much post-modernism has rotted my mind.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Elder Iptuous on March 03, 2009, 07:09:04 PM
Quote from: zen_magick on March 03, 2009, 06:42:43 PM
I think it is absurd to look for any "universals" moral or otherwise, but that's just me.
To much post-modernism has rotted my mind.

It only seems to me to be wrongbad when one is unwilling to change what was previously thought to be universal in the face of contrary evidence or compelling reason.  Apart from that is seems to be perfectly natural human behavior.  Absurd, i agree.  But reasonably absurd.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 03, 2009, 08:41:08 PM
I think context is very important when discussing morals or ethics, and it's very difficult to lay down hard-and-fast rules because we can't possibly anticipate every potential context.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 09:46:27 PM
Quote from: anthraxcat on March 03, 2009, 03:15:54 AM
The belief that all human attempts to find a universal moral and ethic code will fail, and that adherence to any moral code or pursuit of moral truths is meaningless. A combination of moral nihilism and absurdism, it does not state that it is impossible to find purpose in life, but it is impossible to find a universal moral and ethic code. It is personally based off of the moral and ethic code I believe are presented in Discordian works such as the Principia Discordia, and the Illuminatus! Trilogy. Do you think that this is a resonable moral and ethic code to live by PD?

Humanity will can never find a undisputable universal truth, and even if we did, we'd disprove it.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Telarus on March 03, 2009, 09:59:51 PM
Universal Truth remains a contradiction because the qualifier Universal removes all meaningful context, and Truth only dwells within Context. Blah, blah, blah, something about Semantics being Anime-mask wearing testicle rape demons and fnords being used against us,

or

:horrormirth:
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: MrFrizzleFry on March 03, 2009, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Honey on March 03, 2009, 11:43:51 AM
Someone here (I think it was 000) once linked to this essay:

THE BASIC LAWS OF HUMAN STUPIDITY
by Carlo M. Cipolla
illustrations by James Donnelly


http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~leeey/stupidity/basic.htm


I thought it was excellent & useful.

:lulz:
I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Aufenthatt on March 03, 2009, 10:37:07 PM
Quote from: Telarus on March 03, 2009, 09:59:51 PM
Universal Truth remains a contradiction because the qualifier Universal removes all meaningful context, and Truth only dwells within Context. Blah, blah, blah, something about Semantics being Anime-mask wearing testicle rape demons and fnords being used against us,

or

:horrormirth:

Well, sort of proving my point, Protagoras found that a universal truth is imposible because meaning is asigned by the mind and does not exist meaningfuly outside of that, so is subjective.
Old greek argument, and dispite being right, plato "disproved" him, with "logic".
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Iason Ouabache on March 03, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Of course you can do whatever the hell you want.  But you better damn be ready to deal with the consequences.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: zen_magick on March 03, 2009, 10:57:23 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 03, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Of course you can do whatever the hell you want.  But you better damn be ready to deal with the consequences.

It reminds me of the old saying, "Everything's legal until you get caught!"
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 03, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Of course you can do whatever the hell you want.  But you better damn be ready to deal with the consequences.

Rational Anarchism ITT
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Jasper on March 05, 2009, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 03, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Of course you can do whatever the hell you want.  But you better damn be ready to deal with the consequences.

Rational Anarchism ITT

I would call it  "Rogue Ethicism", personally.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 06:56:13 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 05, 2009, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: Iason Ouabache on March 03, 2009, 10:54:39 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 03, 2009, 08:08:05 AM
OP:  So basically you just want to do whatever and not worry about whether it's right or wrong.

That's good to know.
Of course you can do whatever the hell you want.  But you better damn be ready to deal with the consequences.

Rational Anarchism ITT

I would call it  "Rogue Ethicism", personally.

Quote from: Prof La Paz"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free, because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything that I do."
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Jasper on March 05, 2009, 06:58:10 PM
It's the only reasonable way to live.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 06:59:02 PM
Quote from: Felix on March 05, 2009, 06:58:10 PM
It's the only reasonable way to live.

I agree.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Tempest Virago on March 05, 2009, 09:05:09 PM
Personally, I'm generally hopelessly altruistic and have a hard time comprehending any other way to be. I guess I just don't see the point of purposely being an asshole to people. I mean, unless they deserve it, of course. This is probably because I like the majority of people I meet, and tend to assume people have good hearts until they prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
Quote from: Tempest Virago on March 05, 2009, 09:05:09 PM
Personally, I'm generally hopelessly altruistic and have a hard time comprehending any other way to be. I guess I just don't see the point of purposely being an asshole to people. I mean, unless they deserve it, of course. This is probably because I like the majority of people I meet, and tend to assume people have good hearts until they prove otherwise.

Even if a person is completely self centered; generally behaving like an asshole is stupid.

Unless the individual is a hermit, they must spend the rest of their lives surrounded by people. If those people are not very happy, it is unlikely that the individual will be very happy. Consider the poor French royals in the 1700's... they were selfish and self-centered and eventually headless, because they incorrectly perceived what was 'best' for themselves. (PROTIP: If you run a country, what is best for you is a HAPPY POPULACE)

People today who have a nice new home and enough money to pay their mortgage, are another example. They could be self-centered and STUPID and say "No Bailouts for those LOSER homeowners". However, if they are smart and selfish, they will say "HOLY FUCK, PLEASE BAIL OUT MY NEIGHBORS, SO MY HOUSE WON'T BE WORTHLESS!!!"

Selfish isn't necessarily the problem... Stupid and selfish is ;-)
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Tempest Virago on March 05, 2009, 09:38:00 PM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
Even if a person is completely self centered; generally behaving like an asshole is stupid.

Unless the individual is a hermit, they must spend the rest of their lives surrounded by people. If those people are not very happy, it is unlikely that the individual will be very happy. Consider the poor French royals in the 1700's... they were selfish and self-centered and eventually headless, because they incorrectly perceived what was 'best' for themselves. (PROTIP: If you run a country, what is best for you is a HAPPY POPULACE)

People today who have a nice new home and enough money to pay their mortgage, are another example. They could be self-centered and STUPID and say "No Bailouts for those LOSER homeowners". However, if they are smart and selfish, they will say "HOLY FUCK, PLEASE BAIL OUT MY NEIGHBORS, SO MY HOUSE WON'T BE WORTHLESS!!!"

Selfish isn't necessarily the problem... Stupid and selfish is ;-)

This is an excellent point. I know a fair amount of people who not only completely lack social skills, but seem to do it on purpose, intentionally antagonizing people, acting loud and rude for no reason, etc. then act surprised when nobody wants to be around them or help them out. On the other hand, I know people who consider themselves misanthropes but are usually polite except when they see a good reason not to be, and they are much more likely to have people be polite back to them/get assistance when they ask for it.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2009, 03:13:10 AM
Quote from: Ratatosk on March 05, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
Even if a person is completely self centered; generally behaving like an asshole is stupid.

Heh.  I have made a career out of being an asshole, and I am doing just fine.

Stupid is as stupid does. 
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Kai on March 06, 2009, 03:22:14 AM
What rat should have said was "generally behaving like an unfunny asshole is stupid."
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2009, 03:46:14 AM
Quote from: Kai on March 06, 2009, 03:22:14 AM
What rat should have said was "generally behaving like an unfunny asshole is stupid."

Okay.

At work, I'm all like  :argh!:

and then my crew is like  :lulz:

Every day at 11:30 is rant time in the welding shack.  They talk politics, I get all riled up, blow my stack completely and puke out some sick shit, then they start arguing whether I should be killed by blowtorch or not.

They have VERY high standards when it comes to venting.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 06, 2009, 04:56:53 AM
I WANT STORYTIME IN THE WELDING SHACK

Why can't I get storytime in the welding shack????  :argh!:

It would make mornings something to look forward to.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2009, 05:10:02 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 06, 2009, 04:56:53 AM
I WANT STORYTIME IN THE WELDING SHACK

Why can't I get storytime in the welding shack????  :argh!:

It would make mornings something to look forward to.

I could maybe post some transcripts.

But its not the same.   :sad:
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 06, 2009, 05:26:26 AM
Seriously. It's not. Podcasts would be something.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: LMNO on March 06, 2009, 12:55:10 PM
Personal note to self:   Remember to use "Storytime in the Welding Shack" as an album title.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2009, 06:35:11 AM
Quote from: LMNO redux on March 06, 2009, 12:55:10 PM
Personal note to self:   Remember to use "Storytime in the Welding Shack" as an album title.

:)

Hideous details available upon request.

Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 07, 2009, 06:35:40 AM
Quote from: Nigel on March 06, 2009, 05:26:26 AM
Seriously. It's not. Podcasts would be something.

Not really.  No cranky old pervert bikers = fail.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 07, 2009, 09:52:57 AM
Yeahhhhh...  :sad:
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Idiot on March 14, 2009, 11:53:05 AM
Your "Caps Lock" "Key" is actually out to get you.  Look at it closely, stare at it - you will notice it's staring back.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on March 14, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: smokngoat on March 14, 2009, 11:53:05 AM
Your "Caps Lock" "Key" is actually out to get you.  Look at it closely, stare at it - you will notice it's staring back.

You don't actually HAVE to reply to every thread, you know.
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Spork on May 09, 2009, 05:33:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 14, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: smokngoat on March 14, 2009, 11:53:05 AM
Your "Caps Lock" "Key" is actually out to get you.  Look at it closely, stare at it - you will notice it's staring back.

You don't actually HAVE to reply to every thread, you know.
chuckle...  :lol:
Title: Re: Moral Absurdism
Post by: Spork on May 09, 2009, 05:40:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 06, 2009, 03:46:14 AM
Quote from: Kai on March 06, 2009, 03:22:14 AM
What rat should have said was "generally behaving like an unfunny asshole is stupid."

Okay.

At work, I'm all like  :argh!:

and then my crew is like  :lulz:

Every day at 11:30 is rant time in the welding shack.  They talk politics, I get all riled up, blow my stack completely and puke out some sick shit, then they start arguing whether I should be killed by blowtorch or not.

They have VERY high standards when it comes to venting.
Is it possible that your continued success/survival is due to the the fact that you put the ASS in  ASSBESTOS?   :evil: