,ÄúI could have you all that I love you,Äù
- Life like Weeds, Modest Mouse
,ÄúBut some things will never change
try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game ,Äú
- Changes, 2Pac
The future teaches you to be alone the present to be afraid and cold
'So if I can shoot rabbits then I can shoot fascists'
- If You Tolerate This (then your children will be next), Manic Street Preachers
So you didn't do it. I didn't think you would, but I hoped he would prove me wrong. None of you even came close to killing the Good Reverend. Well, actually, thats not the whole story. You nearly fashioned ennui into a weapon of its own accord. You may not have killed him, but you bought him closer to dying the only death that really matters ,Äì the death of the mind, the little deaths the Con inflicts every day. Follow him, do this, don't disagree, you are powerless and the world is unchangeable. Thats their tune, not ours. Who's doing the thinking right now, you or them? Can you even tell the difference?
The Reverend was like unto a Rebel God from Subgenius lore. His sermons, stripped down to their most basic level were the same things those odd entities who oppose the Elder Gods have been screaming since the Universe was born; get ready. This is the future. You can fight, or you can submit and wither and die the truth death, the mind-death of the Con.
But what did you do? You saw the problem, once explained and laid out, it seemed obvious. The blinds were pulled from your eyes, for the moment, but then you fell back into programmed thinking. I am a small, lone voice in a Universe that doesn't care......
I despaired of this to the point of giving you the damn tools themselves. I didn't want to, but I felt it necessary. You looked at his sermons, said ,Äúgood show,Äù, thought about it a bit then went back to your lives. I rarely replied unless I had something constructive to say, you may or may not have noticed. But I read every one of them. And I thought and when I couldn't think any longer, I went to the library or the bookstores. There are books out there the Con never meant for peasants like me to look at. Nasty little books which teach the blackest arts. Nothing so boring or ineffective as magick or ancient rituals. No, modern rituals of death, deception and destruction. How to kill silently and in the dark...how to break a man....how to manipulate the thoughts of others....strategy...law.....realpolitik....a thousand and one techniques all able to be used in a thousand and one ways, many that were never considered by their blinkered authors, so single-minded and of one purpose they could never think in another way. I took all of these and thought until it hurt and put pen to paper and came up with things that worked, within my own odd moral code.
But I didn't have to. And perhaps I shouldn't have. Not a single person has approached me and said ,Äúalright, lets get this rolling.,Äù Not one. You did the same as with Roger, even when the tools were laid out for you, ready for the taking.
So maybe I was mistaken. Why should I bother playing for this team when all it will lead to is harassment, lawsuits and a poor life? I don't have to work for the Discordians, you know. My conscience is not so strong I can't strangle it. The Con pays well nowadays, not to mention its most faithful servants can get up to all sorts of hijinks, with a certain amount of discretion. I could be the next Henry Kissinger. Or the next Ayman al-Zawahiri. Its so much easier than you could ever imagine.
What the hell do you people want? What do you need? Are you after another leader, because thats how it looks from back here. Have you considered leaders are exactly how this problem started in the first place? Or are you waiting for the final confirmation? The death camps, the slave labour and the indefinite detention. The idea is to nip those in the bud before they happen.
The police state has arrived. It came piecemeal, in a creeping fashion over the last 25 years. You want final confirmation where there will be none. Water on stone is the method of their advance. Drip, drip, drip....and thus the nature of the stone is changed. But thats only one way it can go. Sun Tzu teaches that the shih, the natural force that exists from moment to moment in the contextual nature of the environment around us, can be turned to victory by the able commander. Are you an able commander? And if not, why not?
Strategy is my god, as Eris is the handmaiden of war and the power that lies behind every indirect attack. And strategy dictates that I measure effectiveness by results, not eloquent talk. There has been too much eloquent talk. Explain your defeat and go and win, or get out of my sight, because only your deeds will matter. The Assassins knew this, their sect held the only truth was action and the only reasons for actions were held by the Imams. In Discordianism, you are the Imam. You have the reasons, but you do not act. Strategy has a simple logic and one that rings true down the ages ,Äì if you want something, you have to act for it. No wishing and sitting around will ever work and is only the dream of fantasists.
Only through conflict is anything solved. This conflict need not be violent, but it must exist. Your timidity is nothing more than another control device. Its not even your thought, its theirs. Only through confrontation can civilized values be retained, can be protected from the grim death that awaits you in the underbelly of the Con. If you are not even committed to your own defence, then we have nothing more to say to each other.
Sounds like you got yourself a terminal case of beliefs there but hey, I'm bored anough, I'll play along. What would it take for someone like me to do to make you feel optimistic? You wan't me to blow something up? Paint a slogan somewhere? Shoot someone? You're having a go at me for doing nothing what do you think should I be doing and how?
Nope. I'm pissy because Roger fucked off because no-one ever did anything more than nod and go "yep" at his sermons. Just like you're doing right now.
Oh, and I've already explained my reasoning and the things that have happened to me to make me give a fuck. If you don't like that, you can piss off, because I'm tired of repeating and justifying myself.
Read my post again. Very slowly if that helps. Note that I never once questioned why. My question is what? You guys are all fucking brilliant at pointing out what's wrong, there's always room for debating some of the finer points but, on most of the real big issues I've a tendency to agree but no one here has ever suggested a way of stopping or changing the wrong bits or, if anyone ever does make the mistake of suggesting a plan, they get shot down in flames; "that's fucking stupid, it'd never work because - whatever"
Fact is none of you have the slightest clue what the fuck to do but your ego's prevent you from being open to ideas because if you haven't figured it out by now then it must be impossible right? All these rants are fucking lovely calls to arms but no one knows where the weapons are so really they're just calls to bitch and whine. Nothing will ever be done because this is an internet forum. Nothing ever get's done on internet forums.
I ask again - what do you want me to do?
Reading comprehension much? I've done at least 3 rants in the past 2 months alone that spell out how to go about things. What the fuck else do you want me to do, hold your hands and take you step by step, ordering your individual actions? Find another babysitter/wannabe leader, because I don't play that way.
Fuck off asshole, at least I've given it a shot, which is more than 90% of the losers who call themselves "Discordian".
Yup, just as I figured - no fucking idea. Cos if you had an idea you'd be doing it by now instead of whining about how no one else is. But no, you're gonna finish school like a healthy little student, then you're gonna plug yourself into the rat race with some bullshit excuse about how you plan to be a spanner in the works and achieve the downfall of all that's wrong from a nice comfy 3 bed semi in the burbs.
Of course right now you're in complete denial about this, you're totally different from 99.999% of the idealistic rebels without a clue that have ended up settling down and enjoying the rest of their life their life right?. You're going through that stage where you think you can actually make a difference by attacking something other than your own fucking stupid attitude. Good luck you'd be the first.
Wake up primate you have no fucking idea who built the prison who runs the machine and who orchestrates the con. The only reason I'm telling you this is because one day you'll understand what I'm saying and you'll realise that I wasnt the fucking idiot you thought I was. Then you'll hate me even more.
I already have ideas. But guess what? I cant do it alone. I'm one person and one person cannot do everything, strangely enough. You must have missed this bit in your rush to show once again how incredibly hip your nihilism is: "Not a single person has approached me and said ,Äúalright, lets get this rolling.,Äù Not one."
But nice try with the ad hominem. You just showed your true colours, so nice going. Trying to get me riled? Sorry, I'm already pissed and you can't do a thing to change it.
Oh, and nice job of disrespecting my ex-girlfriend, my parents and everyone else I'm doing this shit for. You're a real star, you know that?
Oh, and for a nihilist, you sure as hell do put alot of effort into trying to piss me off.
"Not a single person has approached me and said ,Äúalright, lets get this rolling.,Äù Not one."
But that's not true.
Care to remind me? Not a single person has come to me talking about doing a huge media covered jake, or about my rant on subversion. They come asking for my help on their projects, but no-one has taken an interest in mine.
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:05:35 PM
Care to remind me?  Not a single person has come to me talking about doing a huge media covered jake, or about my rant on subversion.  They come asking for my help on their projects, but no-one has taken an interest in mine.
I've asked you twice already, in this thread alone. But you took it personally and got riled up and snapped at me so I snapped back. I'll apologise if that helps to cut through the bullshit - I think we're both people who do not like to be fucked with.
3rd time - Im in - what do you want me to do?
I feel I have been consistent in my agreement to participate in The Network, Media Division.
Granted, no one's been leaping up to help me out [looks at ECH and LHX], but all the same, I'm here.
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 13, 2006, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:05:35 PM
Care to remind me? Not a single person has come to me talking about doing a huge media covered jake, or about my rant on subversion. They come asking for my help on their projects, but no-one has taken an interest in mine.
I've asked you twice already, in this thread alone. But you took it personally and got riled up and snapped at me so I snapped back. I'll apologise if that helps to cut through the bullshit - I think we're both people who do not like to be fucked with.
3rd time - Im in - what do you want me to do?
I took it personally because every damn time I post in here or PD Discussion you jump down my fucking throat flaunting your "nihilism" in an attempt to piss me off. Why the fuck shouldn't I just treat you like I would any other third bit troll and bounce your ass off the screen sides?
And lets see: I've suggested setting up websites detailing YOUR explanation of Discordianism, then planning a very big, media attractive jake. Base of lots of Discordian sites (all interconnected) plus media exposure leads to interest. Alot of the right sort of people find things they like, if they look around enough. Then they go on to start questioning things.
That dovetails perfectly into the subversion article I wrote. Open Source Chaos. Lots of seperate, but interconnected groups, working with other similar local groups (localised gruges) teaching them new techniques of protesting, new methods of advertising, to get the message out there. Not only does that have an end in and of itself, it acts as a testing lab for effective methods.
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
I feel I have been consistent in my agreement to participate in The Network, Media Division.
Granted, no one's been leaping up to help me out [looks at ECH and LHX], but all the same, I'm here.
Thats true, I'm sorry. No-one else has looked into that, however, bar Neutrangrot. Even Syn has not got back to me.
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:15:23 PM
I took it personally because every damn time I post in here or PD Discussion you jump down my fucking throat flaunting your "nihilism" in an attempt to piss me off.  Why the fuck shouldn't I just treat you like I would any other third bit troll and bounce your ass off the screen sides? 
I think its a communication issue or maybe one of understanding. I am not trying to rub 'my nihilism' in anyones face. For one thing I'm not really a nihilist, I'm not a discordian either but I do have certain points of view pertaining to both of these. Sometimes I feel something you've said sounds a bit negative or like you're getting really down about it and I try to crack some flippant joke to maybe help you get a little more upbeat about it.
I've realised that this not somethig I should be doing with you. You hold your beliefs very dear and see any wisecracking as an attack. This is commendable - I can totally respect that - to an extent I wish there were more like you cos if you don't roll over and join the machine you'll be able to make a big diff even on your own. There's not much point in apologising any more but I do ask you to keep an open mind - I'm not what you seem to think I am. I really am on your side.
Can we bury this hatchett or would you prefer I just fuck off? It's your forum more than mine - as a sign of respect I'll leave if I'm pissing you off too much.
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
I feel I have been consistent in my agreement to participate in The Network, Media Division.
Granted, no one's been leaping up to help me out [looks at ECH and LHX], but all the same, I'm here.
Thats true, I'm sorry. No-one else has looked into that, however, bar Neutrangrot. Even Syn has not got back to me.
I just started a new blog. Calling it Pseudo-Buddhaodiscordo-pastafarian, and posting my reverse brainwashing rant right now. Is that a start?
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 13, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:15:23 PM
I took it personally because every damn time I post in here or PD Discussion you jump down my fucking throat flaunting your "nihilism" in an attempt to piss me off.  Why the fuck shouldn't I just treat you like I would any other third bit troll and bounce your ass off the screen sides? 
I think its a communication issue or maybe one of understanding. I am not trying to rub 'my nihilism' in anyones face. For one thing I'm not really a nihilist, I'm not a discordian either but I do have certain points of view pertaining to both of these. Sometimes I feel something you've said sounds a bit negative or like you're getting really down about it and I try to crack some flippant joke to maybe help you get a little more upbeat about it.
I've realised that this not somethig  I should be doing with you. You hold your beliefs very dear and see any wisecracking as an attack. This is commendable - I can totally respect that - to an extent I wish there were more like you cos if you don't roll over and join the machine you'll be able to make a big diff even on your own. There's not much point in apologising any more but I do ask you to keep an open mind - I'm not what you seem to think I am. I really am on your side.
Can we bury this hatchett or would you prefer I just fuck off? It's your forum more than mine - as a sign of respect I'll leave if I'm pissing you off too much.
If you fuck off, the terrorists have won.
As far as I'm concerned, conflicting veiwpoints are the lifeblood of this forum.
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 13, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:15:23 PM
I took it personally because every damn time I post in here or PD Discussion you jump down my fucking throat flaunting your "nihilism" in an attempt to piss me off. Why the fuck shouldn't I just treat you like I would any other third bit troll and bounce your ass off the screen sides?
I think its a communication issue or maybe one of understanding. I am not trying to rub 'my nihilism' in anyones face. For one thing I'm not really a nihilist, I'm not a discordian either but I do have certain points of view pertaining to both of these. Sometimes I feel something you've said sounds a bit negative or like you're getting really down about it and I try to crack some flippant joke to maybe help you get a little more upbeat about it.
I've realised that this not somethig I should be doing with you. You hold your beliefs very dear and see any wisecracking as an attack. This is commendable - I can totally respect that - to an extent I wish there were more like you cos if you don't roll over and join the machine you'll be able to make a big diff even on your own. There's not much point in apologising any more but I do ask you to keep an open mind - I'm not what you seem to think I am. I really am on your side.
Can we bury this hatchett or would you prefer I just fuck off? It's your forum more than mine - as a sign of respect I'll leave if I'm pissing you off too much.
OK, thanks. I think I understand better now. As I see it, this subforum and PD.com are for the more intense debates and the rest are for more lighthearted stuff. My personal view, but its kind of been an unwritten rule here for a while. I take my yuks where I can, but sometimes it just isn't the place for it and I do need to be serious. I probably should have been more clear on that.
Consider the hatchet buried. There's no need for you to go, I have liked the writings of yours I have seen so far (like I said, I rarely comment unless I can say something constructive, but they were good) and would like to see more.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on November 13, 2006, 04:44:04 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
I feel I have been consistent in my agreement to participate in The Network, Media Division.
Granted, no one's been leaping up to help me out [looks at ECH and LHX], but all the same, I'm here.
Thats true, I'm sorry. No-one else has looked into that, however, bar Neutrangrot. Even Syn has not got back to me.
I just started a new blog. Calling it Pseudo-Buddhaodiscordo-pastafarian, and posting my reverse brainwashing rant right now. Is that a start?
Sounds good to me. Are you going to put more stuff on, and links to other Discordian sites? I've found bloggers than interlink and post comments on other blogs tend to get read more as well, if you are looking to promote it.
Is the BIP domain a free site?
I need to learn HTML.
Yeah, I believe so. But forums are good for communication, and bad for expressing initial ideas. I think, anyway. Unless its been pre-scripted, like with Plato.
Troofiness.
I guess I gotta figure out how to build a website.
Blogs and forums just don't work for this.
There are free hosting sites that make things easier. Look at the Purple Monkey Mafia's site for a good example.
Hmmmm.
Looks like the First Chirch of Last Exit Before Toll might have a Web presence soon...
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on November 13, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:15:23 PM
I took it personally because every damn time I post in here or PD Discussion you jump down my fucking throat flaunting your "nihilism" in an attempt to piss me off. Why the fuck shouldn't I just treat you like I would any other third bit troll and bounce your ass off the screen sides?
I think its a communication issue or maybe one of understanding. I am not trying to rub 'my nihilism' in anyones face. For one thing I'm not really a nihilist, I'm not a discordian either but I do have certain points of view pertaining to both of these. Sometimes I feel something you've said sounds a bit negative or like you're getting really down about it and I try to crack some flippant joke to maybe help you get a little more upbeat about it.
I've realised that this not somethig I should be doing with you. You hold your beliefs very dear and see any wisecracking as an attack. This is commendable - I can totally respect that - to an extent I wish there were more like you cos if you don't roll over and join the machine you'll be able to make a big diff even on your own. There's not much point in apologising any more but I do ask you to keep an open mind - I'm not what you seem to think I am. I really am on your side.
Can we bury this hatchett or would you prefer I just fuck off? It's your forum more than mine - as a sign of respect I'll leave if I'm pissing you off too much.
OK, thanks. I think I understand better now. As I see it, this subforum and PD.com are for the more intense debates and the rest are for more lighthearted stuff. My personal view, but its kind of been an unwritten rule here for a while. I take my yuks where I can, but sometimes it just isn't the place for it and I do need to be serious. I probably should have been more clear on that.
Consider the hatchet buried. There's no need for you to go, I have liked the writings of yours I have seen so far (like I said, I rarely comment unless I can say something constructive, but they were good) and would like to see more.
The way I see my main use here (as I do everywhere else) is to provide 2 functions:
1) ideas generation
I'm full of these and they seem to keep coming although the flow is, at times, sporadic. Everything I've ever posted here should be considered public domain. If there's even a single line of one of my posts that you think is useful to you then use it - there is no need to ask permission to quote, plagiarise, edit or just completely steal a post and stick it on your own website and claim it as your own - I don't post stuff anywhere for glory or shit like that I do it because I want it to be read and, with a bit of luck, open someones eyes. As far as I'm concerned if you get something I've said then that makes it yours as much as mine. So hopefully I'll just keep posting my bollix and some of it will end up on someone elses website. I'm not very good with websites so I'm unlikely to actually set one up myself but maybe I can help with the odd bit of content.
2) Devils advocate
This is where I normally come to blows with people but I think it's worth doing regardless and the reason I feel this way is because I think that a lot of the time people will get trapped in a negative train of thought and this really serves no purpose but to keep the prozac factories in business. I point out the opposite view in the hope that it'll provide a bit of balance and, failing that, help to crystallise the notion in the head of the person who had it, by making them think about their position in more depth. I've illustrated this in two successive rants I've authored, one taking a pessimistic view and the other optimistic. The truth lies somewhere in between. That's my philosophy and tbh it's the nearest thing to a real live belief that I actually have - "The truth lies somewhere in between"
As regards any other school of thought that I might seem to adhere to, please assume in all instances that I have a completely different take on it to the accepted norm. eg I'm a nihilist who believes that there really is a meaning of life. Either way if you ever find me contradicting one of your posts please try to understand that I probably agree with you but want to make you look at it from another angle because if you understand that then I've got my point across. I honestly do have a point - I'm not just arguing for the hell of it. Once again I'm sorry for being a complete cunt but sometimes it's hard to avoid. I walk a very fine line.
Those seem to be valid positions to take. However, the attacks did look fairly directed at me, as opposed to questioning my methodology. By now, you of course know you wont change my mind on some things (as is true of everyone, eventually), but I am always up for constructive criticism as to how I am attempting my goals.
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 05:28:16 PM
Those seem to be valid positions to take. However, the attacks did look fairly directed at me, as opposed to questioning my methodology.
I'm not perfect by a long shot I make mistakes (probably more than the average punter) I really do regret the shit I said to you earlier in this thread, as soon as an agument becomes personal I tend to just go straight for the jugular, instinctively. If it's any consolation that 'rebel without a clue' diatribe describes my own wretched capitulation pretty accurately. The best way to attack someone is often to project your own self loathing on them.
I had thought that, funnily enough. Amateur psychology ftw. Fortunately, I know that crowd only too well and never saw the appeal in them.
You should probably go to this place if you want to be truely diabolical and get it out of your system (as the last 2 years have basically been Discordian infighting and its dull and tired by now) http://www.whofailedtoday.com/bbs/viewforum.php?id=3 Unregged posting, be as much of an evil bastard as you want.
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 05:36:44 PM
I had thought that, funnily enough. Amateur psychology ftw. Fortunately, I know that crowd only too well and never saw the appeal in them.
You should probably go to this place if you want to be truely diabolical and get it out of your system (as the last 2 years have basically been Discordian infighting and its dull and tired by now) http://www.whofailedtoday.com/bbs/viewforum.php?id=3 Unregged posting, be as much of an evil bastard as you want.
Some of the best friendships I have ever been involved in, both IRL and online, have started with a fight, the kind of fight where both sides and up losing roughly the same ammount of blood and it's hard to pick a winner. There's a kinda mutual respect formed in those kinda battles and eventually, when the hate runs out, that respect seems to grow into something kinda pink and fluffy. There's a good few people in this forum I respect and maybe, when I'm all assholed out, they'll start to think of me as a friend.
(I think I'm nearly assholed out but then again my capacity for assholiness quite often surprises me - fingers crossed)
I just got this mental picture of you with a pink and fluffy asshole.
It was weird.
:lol:
Did NOT want that mental image.
Also, it sounds good, but unfortunately most of the Discordian infighting went quite the opposite way.
sombunall.
LMNO
-was a lead fighter for the cookies and pie brigade.
Nah, you stated you were an Erisian. That was never p+c. p+c was.....crap, basically. Erisianism, as you laid it out, was different.
Point.
I have a bad memory.
And I lie a lot.
And you took the name that would have been used for the very Discordian-esque Erisian Revival Sect (bringing back the dark side of Neo-Paganism).
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on November 13, 2006, 04:44:04 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 13, 2006, 04:16:12 PM
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2006, 04:13:25 PM
I feel I have been consistent in my agreement to participate in The Network, Media Division.
Granted, no one's been leaping up to help me out [looks at ECH and LHX], but all the same, I'm here.
Thats true, I'm sorry. No-one else has looked into that, however, bar Neutrangrot. Even Syn has not got back to me.
I just started a new blog. Calling it Pseudo-Buddhaodiscordo-pastafarian, and posting my reverse brainwashing rant right now. Is that a start?
Sounds good to me. Are you going to put more stuff on, and links to other Discordian sites? I've found bloggers than interlink and post comments on other blogs tend to get read more as well, if you are looking to promote it.
Im new to the idea, and I guess I have a bunch of back rants I can post, including "The Process of Sustaining", and I have lots of little tidbits here and there that could make good posts.
Yes, I am going to link to others, including yours. If we truly want to make this "Discordian Network" work, this has to be as far reaching as possible. Sorry if I didn't respond to your ideas sooner, but I loved your stuff on open source warfare, and this is about as open source as we can get. No, not all the stuff that I will put on there will be discordian (Process of Sustaining being notable in that) but it will be towards the heart on the ideal of discordianism...well, like LMNO said:
QuoteWhen someone says "I identify as Discordian," or whatnot, that is a short, buzz-wordy way of saying, "if you want to know who I am and what I am about, you're gonna have to ask me directly. I am not a definition in a book, I am not a collective, I am not a broad brushstroke of society. I will not be sorted, filed, stamped, briefed, de-briefed, or numbered."
Thats the kind of stuff I'll put on there.
Sounds good. Of course, try and link to some of your favourite non-Discordian blogs too. For example, Neil Gaiman's excellent blog, whatshisname Rushkoff etc etc and remember to try and comment on there. Every comment is in effect advertising for your own blog.
For the record, that last bit that BMW quoted is a poorly-remembered quote from "The Prisoner".
Just in case anyone thought I was that clever all by myself.
Quote from: LMNO on November 13, 2006, 07:59:04 PM
For the record, that last bit that BMW quoted is a poorly-remembered quote from "The Prisoner".
Just in case anyone thought I was that clever all by myself.
Whatever. You said it, so its as much yours as anyone elses. It got the job done.
I feel I should apologize for my lack of contributions as of late, but IRL keeps demanding most of my creative energy and free time. However, I'll be happy to do what I can in regards to the distribution and "marketing" of anyone else's projects, and I'll be able to reach a demographic that is currently unrepresented in our ranks. Anyone with any ideas geared towards implementation in developing nations should feel free to get in touch with me for whatever assistance I can render.
Hmm. Thats true. We havent really considered outside of Europe or North America, have we? I thought briefly about China and Japan, but only based on past culture. We'd need to take a different tact maybe, in presentation in such countries.
it makes sens, though. our message is geared to warn our target audience of the horrible things that await them at the end of their path.
the people in most of the rest of the world are ALREADY THERE. They don't need to be convinced that something's wrong, they just need to know that there might be something they can do about it.
As it's been pointed out, everyone hears the battle-cry but no one sees the armory. All the activism is either jaded or lazy or both, and they're our main force.
I haven't got a good goddamned excuse. Now that I can leave my house I should be. But I'm not.
I'll just say that part of the problem is we are all widely separated, isolated except for the connection of the internet. And humans are social creatures, much as we proclaim to love privacy and independence. We are much more likely to do something if there's at least one other accomplice. Many of us do not have accomplices. Many of us are shy about recruiting accomplices.
I'm really goddamned lazy, is what it boils down to. And I'm not really sure just what effort would reward me with. I could rant, I suppose, but we've all seen what that does: jack shit. I could put up posters, and I have, and they've all been torn down within a day. I know nothing about making the internet prettier. I know no one who would gleefully go down with me in a blaze of subversion.
And finally I ask myself, what would anything actually do? Is it really going to change the world? Is making someone's day a little more interesting going to save our civilization? I agree that life as we know it is going to shit, but as already stated I'm waiting for that day so I finally have a good excuse to kill myself. From where I stand the only two options are to passively stand by or try to help it along as much as I can. I can't imagine life ever being good except in a small, personal way, and I'm not sure how much I should worry about other's small, personal spheres.
That probably wasn't very coherent but that's my story.
Sounds fair to me. But I have family in Utah and from the sound of it, the whole state (bar the secret tunnels in SLC) is a lost cause.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on November 13, 2006, 10:49:28 PM
And finally I ask myself, what would anything actually do? Is it really going to change the world? Is making someone's day a little more interesting going to save our civilization? I agree that life as we know it is going to shit, but as already stated I'm waiting for that day so I finally have a good excuse to kill myself. From where I stand the only two options are to passively stand by or try to help it along as much as I can. I can't imagine life ever being good except in a small, personal way, and I'm not sure how much I should worry about other's small, personal spheres.
I get a lot of what you're saying. I just 'gave up' the good fight and settled down into an easygoing, bullshit kinda average life. The way I figure is if I can make it more amusing by helping someone else to see how ridiculous it all is then I'm making a small contribution and being happy at the same time. If that sounds like hippy bullshit then it's prolly cos it is but I guess that's just the kinda punk I am.
Quote from: Rabid Badger of God on November 13, 2006, 10:49:28 PM
I haven't got a good goddamned excuse. Now that I can leave my house I should be. But I'm not.
I'll just say that part of the problem is we are all widely separated, isolated except for the connection of the internet. And humans are social creatures, much as we proclaim to love privacy and independence. We are much more likely to do something if there's at least one other accomplice. Many of us do not have accomplices. Many of us are shy about recruiting accomplices.
I'm really goddamned lazy, is what it boils down to. And I'm not really sure just what effort would reward me with. I could rant, I suppose, but we've all seen what that does: jack shit. I could put up posters, and I have, and they've all been torn down within a day. I know nothing about making the internet prettier. I know no one who would gleefully go down with me in a blaze of subversion.
And finally I ask myself, what would anything actually do? Is it really going to change the world? Is making someone's day a little more interesting going to save our civilization? I agree that life as we know it is going to shit, but as already stated I'm waiting for that day so I finally have a good excuse to kill myself. From where I stand the only two options are to passively stand by or try to help it along as much as I can. I can't imagine life ever being good except in a small, personal way, and I'm not sure how much I should worry about other's small, personal spheres.
That probably wasn't very coherent but that's my story.
I respect your opinion, but fuck, you're a real downer.
Plus, you guys are forgetting that not everyone is a Black Iron Prison nut. There's discordians, wheather they consider themselves discordian or not, that just wanna laugh at that world and get laughed at. They don't care about world issues and social methology. If you saw them and told them to piss off with some cynical remark about the machine or whatever, do you know what they'll do? They'll laugh at you and throw a milkshake at your car. Their is no problem to them, and if there is the best thing they think they can do is laugh at it. Are they part of the problem, or are they a small part of the solution?
Secondly, I propose one of the mods make a sticky thread called "The Discordian Arsenal" or something similar so when new recruits come to the forums asking "What can I do?" you can point them to a thread that'll give them some ideas. You could also make a similar sticky that list all of the projects members are currently working on, and links to their website or blog.
I really don't know which type of discordian I am, but I do know that anyone who tells me how to be a discordian, is not a discordian at all.
can't argue with that.
good idea about the thread too. I'll get on that tomorrow morning.
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on November 14, 2006, 03:26:49 AM
Plus, you guys are forgetting that not everyone is a Black Iron Prison nut. There's discordians, wheather they consider themselves discordian or not, that just wanna laugh at that world and get laughed at. They don't care about world issues and social methology. If you saw them and told them to piss off with some cynical remark about the machine or whatever, do you know what they'll do? They'll laugh at you and throw a milkshake at your car. Their is no problem to them, and if there is the best thing they think they can do is laugh at it. Are they part of the problem, or are they a small part of the solution?
I think it may be the difference between optimist and pessimist. I know I like to look for a positive spin on most things that people find bad. I usually can to. Not always but usually. Not taking the whole human race very seriously helps me a bit.
Quote from: Dr. Cow Ass on November 14, 2006, 03:26:49 AM
You could also make a similar sticky that list all of the projects members are currently working on, and links to their website or blog.
theres links to ppls blogs usually in their profile
i dont think anyone really ever looks though
as with members projects.. I agree the whole thing can be a bit more "organized"
aaaaand here is my take on this thread (a bunch of random collated replies written while reading the past four pages)
well, for me it's like this. i just take it at my own pace. i'm not at all sure the ways ECH Cain MGD and Roger are going are the right way. for me.
maybe i could in fact just plunge in, wreak havoc, YEAH and DO THIS SHIT. but only when i'm convinced that it is the right thing to do. maybe i'm getting there slowly, but there are no shortcuts.
in fact, i don't quite see what you're complaining about. i have done what i could for the cause i believe in. there are no if's. but IF you want more, you have to wait. i am not that quick.
now for some specific things you wrote ..
> Not a single person has come to me talking about
> doing a huge media covered jake, or about my rant
> on subversion. They come asking for my help on
> their projects, but no-one has taken an interest in
> mine.
did you actually directly ask anyone?
cause all i ever read about your projects was things like "i've got a few projects running now ..." all sounding either like very secretive stuff or very local jakes.
if you wanted help, you should have asked. and (i'm sure you know this from whatever strategy lessons) generally asking the open air on a forum isn't asking. approach people directly if you want a "yes" or "no" instead of a "hmhm yep uhuh someone should".
i never asked for two reasons.
- first, you seemed secretive and so i had no clue what actually you were doing.
- second, you have always seemed to make a big point of showing that you don't need any help with anything at all. at least, that's how you seem to me.
if anything, the thing you are ranting against, is more of a communication problem than anything else. or just a big dissapointment in human nature. but that's normal. everybody gets that. no group is different. no large group anyway. not on a forum. not like this.
and damn, i would figure anyone like you would actually know this.
i have managed a few medium-sized groups of (relatively free-thinking) people. put them on a mailinglist. when you want something done, you don't post a message "we need to get X done. anybody got time to do it?". no. you call every single one of them on their cell phones and ask if they got time and if not, why.
maybe the "broadcast question" approach works for military? corporate work? i dunno, i have no experience with that. but it sure as hell doesn't work for people who have relatively little up with the concept of authority.
apart from that. i'm no religious zealot here either. i read your rants and think "fuck yeah", but that doesn't mean i go storming off to the nearest public toilet to sabotage it or whatever just because i read something that got me enthousiastic. because it won't last.
i find the hardest thing about discordianism is not grasping the concept, but actually explaining it clearly to other people. when they ask the simplest questions like "why?". i can put up posters, leave flyers around (i have done so many times), but if anybody catches me and asks, interested, "hey 000 what is this about, anyway", i'll be dumbfounded. so much easier to just quote the law of 5s, than to explain why the world is fubar. yes i read the essays and i think "hell yea", but preaching it to the world -- i've been there. at a certain moment somebody who actually knows history (cause i dont) steps up and contradicts a huge part of your story and there you are, looking stoopid. now that might not happen to you, but i know my limitations (:time).
> re: Open Source Chaos.
i read it. twice. i have no idea what to do with it. also forgot most of it already. i might do something with it, if you could all explain it to me. we could go through it bit by bit. something best done in a bar face to face, not over long-distance media. (hey if you ever happen to find yourself in NL ... )
> But forums are good for communication, and bad
> for expressing initial ideas. I think, anyway.
> Unless its been pre-scripted, like with Plato.
oooohhh.. now THAT's an idea :) i've been thinking of something like that. if one could build a tool that is able to make preset timed postings (under different logins) to fora, blogs etc, would it be worth it? a pre-scripted conversation between two or more users could be written in a short time, spread out over a week or so, posted to a number of different fora. my time is very costly at the moment, but would it be worth investigating the possibility to automate this?
Quoteif one could build a tool that is able to make preset timed postings (under different logins) to fora, blogs etc, would it be worth it? a pre-scripted conversation between two or more users could be written in a short time, spread out over a week or so, posted to a number of different fora. my time is very costly at the moment, but would it be worth investigating the possibility to automate this?
This is an
extremely cool idea.
I should point out I was also pissed off about several other things yesterday.
Quote from: Cain on November 14, 2006, 02:03:45 PM
I should point out I was also pissed off about several other things yesterday.
Yeah, sorry about that thing I did to your mother. A bit of turpentine should get that off.
:lol: