Quote from: RWHNaneristic strife
This is from another thread, but I thought I'd throw it in here & see what happens.
I have a lot of work to do right now, but I promise to address it later.
Kick the phrase around, let's see what happens.
strife caused by fearing disorder? would that not be every fear and strife ever?
Awesome! I was thinking the complete opposite - rigid order leads to strife, chaos cannot be contained.
but it can be ignored, and is by almost every living person, thats why I assumed it would be people worried about losing their bubble, people are happy when theres no negative surprises.
its a struggle to contain discord
thats why some people beat their kids
Aneristic Strife:
An internal subconscious conflict in which the orderly (left) side of the mind is conflicting with the desire or need of use of the chaotic (right) side of the mind.
Is being bored all the time a sign of balance or not giving a shit whats happening?
from my experience and observation, boredom is always followed by a period of terror
or at the least some extreme turbulence
Aneristic Strife.
I read it as general disorder which comes about from the appearance of order.
Like the cracks in a vase or something.
It could be a word for entropy. It could be a word for the conflict riddled attempts of people to maintain their Aneristic illusion.
Maybe it is strife between those caught up in the aneristic illusion, and can be seen symbolically as some sort of absurdist argument where both sides are equally as wrong and still ready to kill eachother over it.
But that was just my stream of conciousness talking.
I think Aneristic Strife would be a condition caused by an undue impoition of order on the consensual paradigm.
and it wouldn't be a sudden flash.
more like a long slow chafing. the worst indian burn of all time.
for how long is something like that tolerable?
I'm with ECH. It would be the friction between the real and percieved condition of reality. For example, Communism. Or any totalitarian system, which claims to have all the answers.
But in reality it would be the same as the Imposition of Order = escalation of Chaos. You set up a view of the world as it should be and enforce it by making bits that don't think vanish (instead of considering why if something was real already it would need to be enforced). But you can't eliminate everything that doesn't fit, sometimes you cannot even percieve it. And eventually this builds up and up over time until some flash point makes it overturn the current paradigm.
so basically - a lot of what is around right now can be considered to be aneristic strife?
it also might be worth mentioning that although the 'aneristic' part can seem to establish itself (temporarily) - it never actually does
like you can succeed in plugging a volcano for a little while - maybe even long enough to forget that it is a volcano
but eventually...
(tee hee hee)
Geez, i put the words together so I guess I should come up with something.
I would thinik of Aneristic Strife similar to how LHX did. Or, at least, that's what I think of is how we contain kids.
Because, kids start out "pure". That is, they are a blank slate with no pre-conceived notions of order, disorder, right, wrong, bad, good, etc., etc., etc.,
Of course, through playing with their environment, they learn things.
hot water = ouchie hand
pulling kitties tail = ouchie face
crayons on wall = great entertainment
But then, they start to learn other things. It may be direct, a father and/or mother sit their kids down and say. "Now to be a good child you must do x,y, and z. If you ever, ever to a,b, and/or c, you are a bad child."
Perhaps x,y,and z are things like praying every night, using a napkin after EVERY bite, saying thank you all of the time, tucking in your sheets, etc.
Perhaps a,b, and c are things like boys not playing with dolls, or girls not playing with trains and rocket ships. Things that are not, "social norms", or "socially acceptible."
Then the whole farce of "society" gets intorduced. You have to be a "good member of society" if you want to get anywhere. If you want to be happy. If you want to be successful.
And so this is where it begins, and it doesn't stop. It gets reinforced in school, in college, in the workplace, and on, and on, and on.
And so....you have a bunch of apathetic, over-stressed, cattle too scared to deviate from the path or line they are in for fear of the "cattle-prod" that is disorder.
I'm wondering what the picture of those who have none of this "aneristic strife" would be, however.
I have an idea, but since this concept is virtually new to me, I'd welcome some suggestions.
RWHN, Let's not forget the sponge-like nature of children, in that they observe everything around them, and adopt those behaviors.
So if the parents have a "typical" (read: stereotyped) gender-based relationship, like the mother cooks and cleans, and the father takes out the garbage & watches sports, the child will "learn" these behaviors as how things are "supposed" to be.
But I repeat (although in another thread), once a person is able to meta-think and self-criticize, these learned behaviors are no longer mandatory.
Jenne, this concept is new to all of us. I plucked it out of RWHN's rant yesterday.
Discordian creative process, ITT.
Ah. Well, I will think for myself on this then, and then share if it's worthy.
I don't think it is that new - imposition of order is aneristic by its nature, but because of its limited understanding and inability to deal with contradictions breaks down, causing chaos as it gains and loses momentum.
Also, I tend to think people go one of TWO ways as growing up:  total or near-total emulation of environment, or total rejection and a 180' turn away from it...
I figure strife is strife, and whether it's eristic or aneristic depends on why you're struggling.
If the police are called in to break up a riot, strife will ensue. For the rioters, it's an eristic strife because their goal was to help bring about change. For the police, it's an aneristic strife because their goal was to maintain the status quo.
Authority's struggle to maintain its authority is probably always aneristic strife. And that's why sticking apart is so important. Organizations gain strength from their organization (see the roots of the word "fascism"), but then they have to put energy into maintaining that strength rather than actually going out and achieving the goal they had in mind. The trouble with organized religion is that it became less about religion and more about the being organized.
Cain:
The reason I started this thread was because "Aneristic Strife" sounded like a contradiction.
Since "Aneristic" is the illusion that everything is ordered, and "strife" is one of Eris' gambits, putting them together sounded like "Ordered Disorder".
Now, while the New Chart I developed does indeed handle this, it hasn't really been kicked around too much.
My interpretation of it would probably be the most kafka-esque beurocracy.  So much is ordered, that the Disorder naturally takes over, since there are too many rules to process.
I dunno, it just seems intuitive to me, especially when you take into account a period of time, as opposed to a snapshot view of something.
Quote from: LMNO on December 06, 2006, 03:28:48 PM
Cain:
The reason I started this thread was because "Aneristic Strife" sounded like a contradiction.
Since "Aneristic" is the illusion that everything is ordered, and "strife" is one of Eris' gambits, putting them together sounded like "Ordered Disorder".
Now, while the New Chart I developed does indeed handle this, it hasn't really been kicked around too much.
My interpretation of it would probably be the most kafka-esque beurocracy. So much is ordered, that the Disorder naturally takes over, since there are too many rules to process.
If there's order in chaos then is there perhaps chaos in order?
yes
think of the word universe
aneristic strife = what happens when order just doesn't work, even when you think you've pinned down ever possible case
(oblivious of the fact that it is just this pinning down why it doesnt work)
it's what happens when people start fixing things in a very short-sighted way. like whack-a-mole. like hunting bugs or exploits in software. you got everything strapped down so tightly that NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG .. aneristic strife is that gnawing feeling in the back of their head that it might just possibly (but nah it couldn't really) be the straps themselves causing the trouble.
Aha. I get it now.
It's that "turning point"...or the beginning of it, the struggle, perhaps, that causes the turning point, turning away, then turning towards whatever it is that you might have discovered to replace that which you are turning away from.
Interesting.
Quote from: triple zero on December 07, 2006, 06:54:39 PM
aneristic strife = what happens when order just doesn't work, even when you think you've pinned down ever possible case
(oblivious of the fact that it is just this pinning down why it doesnt work)
it's what happens when people start fixing things in a very short-sighted way. like whack-a-mole. like hunting bugs or exploits in software. you got everything strapped down so tightly that NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG .. aneristic strife is that gnawing feeling in the back of their head that it might just possibly (but nah it couldn't really) be the straps themselves causing the trouble.
I'm stealing that :mittens:
:thanks:
btw, sillycybin, you never came to the 'old' BIP forum, did you? any reason or just "wheh not another forum to read"
Quote from: triple zero on December 07, 2006, 07:10:17 PM
:thanks:
btw, sillycybin, you never came to the 'old' BIP forum, did you? any reason or just "wheh not another forum to read"
I came a few times but it seemed real slow (not much posting) and I guess I just kinda forgot about it after a while. :oops: Attention span of a wasp.
Yeah, it slowed down quite a bit when this place came alive again. Which, of course, I expected. But that's cool. It's certainly for the best especially considering BIP/TDN whatever went down in flames.
Of course the delusional part of me would like to think it got slow because my sparkling personality wasn't around as often. But, I'm not delusional. Well, not too much anyway. :wink:
there are strange dynamics to forums
peaks and silent periods
its gettin cold now - people be inside a bit more
All forums undergo drama cycles. There will be periods with lots of posters, and then perioids with few. The thing to remember is that "this too shall pass --- and then come again".
i noticed that about forums and communities too - people try to make them grow, but when they get too big, they end up falling apart
Quote from: LHX on December 07, 2006, 08:13:29 PM
there are strange dynamics to forums
peaks and silent periods
its gettin cold now - people be inside a bit more
Was thinking last night that it was a full moon recently.
The Cold Moon, 2 nights ago.
I was out watching it.
Cold Moon?
Please to be educating the ignorant.
it was full moon here as well two days ago -- is that the same all over the globe?
(i know nothing about astronomy)
Yes, the amount of moon is the same for everyone, I believe.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 07, 2006, 08:25:13 PM
Cold Moon?
Please to be educating the ignorant.
The full moons of the year, 13 in all, are sometimes given names depending on the month they occupy. The December full moon is sometimes called the Cold Moon, or the "Moon before Yule". Its nothing important. I like it because it helps me more strongly identify with lunar cycles. Whenever I go out at night I always know the phase and how far away from full and new it is.
Just something I do.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 07, 2006, 08:25:13 PM
Cold Moon?
Please to be educating the ignorant.
The full moons of the year, 13 in all, are sometimes given names depending on the month they occupy. The December full moon is sometimes called the Cold Moon, or the "Moon before Yule". Its nothing important. I like it because it helps me more strongly identify with lunar cycles. Whenever I go out at night I always know the phase and how far away from full and new it is.
Just something I do.
I used to organise everything according to moon phases. Worked real well for me for a while. Still aware of the buzz when she's full. It's subtle but when you're paying attention it's well noticable.
Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on December 07, 2006, 08:25:13 PM
Cold Moon? 
Please to be educating the ignorant. 
The full moons of the year, 13 in all, are sometimes given names depending on the month they occupy. The December full moon is sometimes called the Cold Moon, or the "Moon before Yule". Its nothing important. I like it because it helps me more strongly identify with lunar cycles. Whenever I go out at night I always know the phase and how far away from full and new it is.
Just something I do.
I see. Thanks for the info. :-)
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:40:53 PM
Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...
Just consider it psychosomatic, BMW. That should work for you.
Quote from: LMNO on December 08, 2006, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:40:53 PM
Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...
Just consider it psychosomatic, BMW. That should work for you.
Exactly. Moon has effect on brain chemistry. Listen to the number of fire alarms being set off at your local mental hospital on a full moon as opposed to empty one. Moon pulls the ocean with enough force to lift it up 5 or six feet in places think what it's doing to your (mostly water) brain. Now if you're trying to accomplish a change in conformity etc. The best time to do it, for some reason is during this time.
psychosomatic ftw
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 08, 2006, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: LMNO on December 08, 2006, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:40:53 PM
Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...
Just consider it psychosomatic, BMW.  That should work for you.
Exactly. Moon has effect on brain chemistry. Listen to the number of fire alarms being set off at your local mental hospital on a full moon as opposed to empty one. Moon pulls the ocean with enough force to lift it up 5 or six feet in places think what it's doing to your (mostly water) brain. Now if you're trying to accomplish a change in conformity etc. The best time to do it, for some reason is during this time.
I think you need to refresh yourself on the definition of "psychosomatic", silly.
<<Relating to or concerned with the influence of the mind on the body, and the body on the mind>>
The moon affects the body affects the mind
Your mind makes you think the moon affects your body, affecting your body. H'actually. There is no real scientific evidence to suggest the moon has any effect on the mind or body, except by those predisposed to fixate on it.
Quote from: Cain on December 08, 2006, 03:29:00 PM
Your mind makes you think the moon affects your body, affecting your body. H'actually. There is no real scientific evidence to suggest the moon has any effect on the mind or body, except by those predisposed to fixate on it.
Except for the glaringly obvious gravitational field effect?
Not proven to have an effect on mental processes. Peer reveiwed article or GTFO.
the moon affects the intent chakra located in the pericipital lobe of the brain
everybody knows that
where else could moon particles go?
:mittens:
Up your [censored]?
Quote from: Cain on December 08, 2006, 03:39:58 PM
Up your [censored]?
yeah - but if you have blocked chakras - they cant go anywhere
^^
100% real troof ITT
Quote from: Cain on December 08, 2006, 03:35:27 PM
Not proven to have an effect on mental processes. Peer reveiwed article or GTFO.
If you pay attention you'll feel it. No need for science. Sync your body and mind in with the ebb and flow, more active during full and new moon, quieter and more reflective during halfs. Take it from a some time 'lunatic' there is an effect. Think what spinning round really fast does to you - it makes you dizzy right? Thats a result of a gravitational effect (centrifugal) on a small ammount of fluid in your inner ear. But there's a slight euphoria which you might not notice because of the more obvious loss of balance. This euphoria is caused by a gracitational effect.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/coast_sea/tidesfaq.shtml - Think about it
Centripital force =/= gravitational force.
Please to read a physics textbook.
plus you can jump higher if the moon is directly over top of you
(activated foot glands)
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 08, 2006, 02:42:44 PMMoon pulls the ocean with enough force to lift it up 5 or six feet in places think what it's doing to your (mostly water) brain.
also, unless you provide me with a reference, i think this is utter bullshit.
psychosomatic, of course, without a doubt, no problems with that.
but as far as i know, the reason why the moon pulls up the ocean by that much, is that he ocean is an enormous body of water and water in oceans tends to be liquid, as opposed to the water in our bodies which is mostly restricted to the shape of our body. i dunno, but i severely doubt that tidal forces or the gravity of the moon have a real effect on the human body.
not that we dont love the moon
respect due
If our brains were as massive as the ocean, you might have a point.  However, the mass of water in our brans is so small, any gravitational pull from the moon is cancelled by the pull of the earth.
Also, there has been no evidence that a miniscule shift of bodily fluids upward would affect personality.
Quote from: triple zero on December 08, 2006, 03:46:12 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 08, 2006, 02:42:44 PMMoon pulls the ocean with enough force to lift it up 5 or six feet in places think what it's doing to your (mostly water) brain.
also, unless you provide me with a reference, i think this is utter bullshit.
psychosomatic, of course, without a doubt, no problems with that.
but as far as i know, the reason why the moon pulls up the ocean by that much, is that he ocean is an enormous body of water and water in oceans tends to be liquid, as opposed to the water in our bodies which is mostly restricted to the shape of our body. i dunno, but i severely doubt that tidal forces or the gravity of the moon have a real effect on the human body.
They don't have much effect, but they have an effect nonetheless. Every thing gets pulled up, very slightly. As the moon is rising. If you fill in a hole during high moon the result will be a mound. If you fill it during low moon the result will be a divot. Go check. I said you have to pay attention to it. Granted the majority of this effect may be projected but it's a projection that works. Trust me on this. And what you're feeling by focussing on it is driven by the moon.
he did this on a full moon:
(http://www.memoram.com/pierce_Dunking.jpg)
but seriously - the moon is significant because it is there
and it can represent different things to different people at different times
gravitational interactions?
the implications of getting varying amounts of light at night?
the fact that the same side of it is always facing us?
the fact that it is a body that is within travelling distance?
these are all things worth considering
Quote from: LMNO on December 08, 2006, 03:53:24 PM
If our brains were as massive as the ocean
Speak for yourself.
Cain,
evil genius.
QuoteGranted the majority of this effect may be projected but it's a projection that works.
Change that to "all", and I think we might have an agreement.
yeah, I think any affect the moon may have on a person, personality or otherwise, is largely in their head. And I would submit it is because they've bought into a myth of lunacy or some such thing. I mean, it's the same thing as thinking a 4-leaf clover is lucky or that a black cat crossing your path is going to royally fuck up your day.
Quote from: LMNO on December 08, 2006, 04:02:02 PM
QuoteGranted the majority of this effect may be projected but it's a projection that works.
Change that to "all", and I think we might have an agreement.
Fair enough the whole thing is projected. Changes no part of my argument. Do I need to beat you over the head with the 'S'-word twice in one day?
Yeah, it does.
YOU = "The full moon acts on humans physically which makes them crazy."
US = "The full moon as observed by humans is interpreted in a certain way to have a psychosomatic (i.e. 'imagined') effect on some of them."
Not the same thing. In the first case, we can't control it, unless we have an anti-gravity device. In the second, we can easily control it, because it's in our heads.
there is no victim ANYWHERE
these arent real tears
the thing is, if it's purely projected it's not gravity.
that's what we were saying all along and i think we pretty much were in agreement all along. so after that's done, i'd like to ask still:
- what's the "S-word"?
- you sound as you actually tried out the hole with water thing. what did you do exactly? and how a big a hole? (out of curiosity) how did it work out?
- and perhaps the thing we were actually bickering about: projection (or what ever you want to call it) how much attention should you pay to it? and is it fair to deliberately blur the line (or better, to blur the grey area that's there already even further) between projection and objective/semiquasi-objecquektive/peer-reviewed reality?
edit: i just came back from a weekend away, and only reloaded this page -- i see there's a thread about the moon already :) so maybe this post is redundant.
m1 m2
Fg = G --------------
r2
The chair I'm sitting on exerts a greater gravitational force on me than the moon.
Just sayin'
Thanks, Starship. I knew there must be someone here who knew the math.
Okay, I'll humor you for a sec. Say that Luna does actually exert some "gravitational" force upon us that we can sense.
Now go back to your arguement that the effect of the moon is strongest when it is "full".
See where Im going with this?
You see, the tides aren't highest at full or new moon. The oceantides are fullest at first and last quarter, when the differential gravitation between moon and sun cause higher tidal force. Even then, this has nothing to do with the amount of light hitting the moon, and everything to do with the position of the moon in relationship to the much larger mass of the Earth, and the much, MUCH larger mass of the sun.
So, why exactly do you feel the most at Full moon again? Why not at new moon? The gravitational effect is pretty much the same.
Now, if we ignore the differential tidal force, what is happening during the phases of the moon? As Luna revolves around the Earth in a monthly cycle, one face always points in because one lunar day is equal to one lunar month, called syncronomous rotation. We see differential amounts of "moonlight" because different amounts of light is reflected that we can see. This is key, that one realizes that there is no more or less light striking the moon at any time of the month (outside of a lunar eclipse), the only difference is the amount we see here on earth. And the amount of light we see, while it does deal with the relative positions of Earth moon and sun, has nothing to do with gravitation or tidal force.
Tell me, what does a new moon feel like to you? It must be overwhelming, having the mass of the moon positioned above you all day long... 8-)
Quote from: LMNO on December 08, 2006, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 07, 2006, 08:40:53 PM
Um.....Im just gonna pretend I didn't hear that...
Just consider it psychosomatic, BMW. That should work for you.
Hey, if we wanted to talk about the effect of moolight upon biological cycles, then theres a whole lot of evidence for that. Not really any in humans, but take certain jellyfish, for example, which congregate and breed on nights of a certain phase of the moon, because they are biologically programmed to react to a certain low light intensity which was precluded by a number of nights of increasing or decreasing amounts of light intensity.
THAT I can stomach.
This stuff about tidal effect is completly bogus though. And the oceans rise because they are not only fluid (have no fixed shape) but the molecules act as a whole on the large scale.
Starship's got the right idea.
Quote from: Buddhist_Monk_Wannabe on December 12, 2006, 06:15:47 AM
Okay, I'll humor you for a sec. Say that Luna does actually exert some "gravitational" force upon us that we can sense.
Now go back to your arguement that the effect of the moon is strongest when it is "full".
See where Im going with this?
You see, the tides aren't highest at full or new moon. The oceantides are fullest at first and last quarter, when the differential gravitation between moon and sun cause higher tidal force. Even then, this has nothing to do with the amount of light hitting the moon, and everything to do with the position of the moon in relationship to the much larger mass of the Earth, and the much, MUCH larger mass of the sun.
So, why exactly do you feel the most at Full moon again? Why not at new moon? The gravitational effect is pretty much the same.
Now, if we ignore the differential tidal force, what is happening during the phases of the moon? As Luna revolves around the Earth in a monthly cycle, one face always points in because one lunar day is equal to one lunar month, called syncronomous rotation. We see differential amounts of "moonlight" because different amounts of light is reflected that we can see. This is key, that one realizes that there is no more or less light striking the moon at any time of the month (outside of a lunar eclipse), the only difference is the amount we see here on earth. And the amount of light we see, while it does deal with the relative positions of Earth moon and sun, has nothing to do with gravitation or tidal force.
Tell me, what does a new moon feel like to you? It must be overwhelming, having the mass of the moon positioned above you all day long...  8-)
(http://www.orlyowl.com/upload/files/pwned.png)
I forgot to add that the tidal force also causes the oceans to lump on the opposite side of the earth to the moon as well, and the tides on either side are about the same. This is why there are two tides in a day and not one.
BMW,
Kicking pseudoscience in the ass, one fallicious arguement at a time.
Edit: And shit. I screwed up: the tides are largest at new and full moons, when the gravitational force of the moon in line with the sun reinforces the tidal force of the sun thus causing larger tides. I thought it was differential force that caused larger tides, but oh well, even I make mistakes once in a while. This would still walk all over your arguement, though, because the tides are strongest at both full and new moon. Which means that my statements still stand.
And, interestingly, if astrology actually meant something, and if it was based on forces we already know to be existant (gravitational and electromagnetic) then Sol and Luna would dominate the charts, and all other bodies would be totally insignificant (Sol being the dominant source for electromagnetic force for us on earth, and Luna being the dominant extraplanetary body responcible for tidal forces; Luna exibits 2 times more gravitational force than the sun on this planet. Its also been said that the earth may be a binary system, the masses of the earth and moon are close enough that the gravitational center of revolution is actually close to the surface of the earth, and not at the core. That has interesting implications in its own right).
Nobody seems to care about the new moon, which is why this arguement is bogus.
People can be "affected" by anything they want to be "affected" by. Of course there is a huge difference between conjured and actual.
someone who wants to blame their mood, or other mental affect on a physical symbol is just being intellectually lazy and close minded to looking for the real reasons lying beneath the flesh.
maybe. a psychosomatic effect can be unconcious, and sometimes not even recognized as even happening. To call that lazy is to use the harshest meaning of the word.
LMNO
-knows it takes a hell of a lot of self-analysis to figure out all of one's psychological snafus.
Quote from: LMNO on December 12, 2006, 02:33:26 PM
maybe. a psychosomatic effect can be unconcious, and sometimes not even recognized as even happening. To call that lazy is to use the harshest meaning of the word.
LMNO
-knows it takes a hell of a lot of self-analysis to figure out all of one's psychological snafus.
I can definatly see where the brightness of the moon at full would have psychosomatic effects. Hell, its got that effect on me, but I don't go blaming it on gravitational forces.
Quote from: LMNO on December 12, 2006, 02:33:26 PM
maybe.  a psychosomatic effect can be unconcious, and sometimes not even recognized as even happening.  To call that lazy is to use the harshest meaning of the word.
LMNO
-knows it takes a hell of a lot of self-analysis to figure out all of one's psychological snafus.
I guess I'm differntiating between a psychological snafu and someone who says, "Wow, There's a Full Moon, no wonder my girlfriend is being a bitch today."
Never said you did, my friend.
Lately, i've been having long arguments with people about the means, rather than the ends.  Much like this thread; we can agree on the end, which seems to be evidence that the full moon has an effect on human mentality, but we cannot agree on the means.  It frustrates many of the people I talk to, because they can't separate the two things.
Quote from: LMNO on December 12, 2006, 02:43:06 PM
Never said you did, my friend.
Lately, i've been having long arguments with people about the means, rather than the ends.  Much like this thread; we can agree on the end, which seems to be evidence that the full moon has an effect on human mentality, but we cannot agree on the means.  It frustrates many of the people I talk to, because they can't separate the two things.
I know, sometimes I differentiate in my head and forget to express it. (I can't tell you how many times that has gotten me into trouble with my wife.)
Considering if this was conscious though, then the potential is huge. Not for the moon fixation thing, but in general.
Of course, I'm not telling you all anything new here, just pointing this out.
I think where I was going with the moon thing, before we got into teh 'how reality works' issues. Is that it's something you can opt to do. By sync-ing whichever aspects of your psyche or physiology with the lunar cycle you break down your existence to 28-day patterns of activity and rest & recouperation. I never said it wasn't a conscious decision. My first post on the subject stated that I used to use it. If you are into developing yourself or your situation, according to any kind of practical margiquile system then it will follow that there will be periods of 'work', balanced with periods of calm and reflection. In simplest terms you think/do a thing then you let it sink in.
The moon is merely a tried and tested 'status bar' to work with. Of course saying it the way I did is much more open to being taken the wrong way. Gonna have to try and keep a lid on this but sometimes I can't help myself. Sorry for whole debacle but it was entertaining no? At least I learned some quantum physics stuff out of it if nothing else.
Quote from: SillyCybin on December 12, 2006, 05:16:26 PM
I think where I was going with the moon thing, before we got into the 'how reality works' issues. Is that it's something you can opt to do. By sync-ing whichever aspects of your psyche or physiology with the lunar cycle you break down your existence to 28-day patterns of activity and rest & recouperation. I never said it wasn't a conscious decision. My first post on the subject stated that I used to use it. If you are into developing yourself or your situation, according to any kind of practical margiquile system then it will follow that there will be periods of 'work', balanced with periods of calm and reflection. In simplest terms you think/do a thing then you let it sink in.
The moon is merely a tried and tested 'status bar' to work with. Of course saying it the way I did is much more open to being taken the wrong way. Gonna have to try and keep a lid on this but sometimes I can't help myself. Sorry for whole debacle but it was entertaining no? At least I learned some quantum physics stuff out of it if nothing else.
Quote from: LMNOLately, i've been having long arguments with people about the means, rather than the ends.  Much like this thread; we can agree on the end, which seems to be evidence that the full moon has an effect on human mentality, but we cannot agree on the means.  It frustrates many of the people I talk to, because they can't separate the two things.
Quote from: LMNO on December 11, 2006, 02:01:17 PM
Thanks, Starship. I knew there must be someone here who knew the math.
No prob. I may not be a theoretical physicist anytime soon, but I can hack algebra.
As for the "psychosomatic theory", just remember that for generations of humans a night with a full moon was the best time to hunt. The extra light helped people track animals, many of whom are nocturnal. Many religious rites of Real Pagans
TM were centered around the full moon. This long-ingrained behavior
may still have effects on people today. I might google for some empirical evidence later.
I've also heard a similar thing, but posed in the opposite way - that people may become nervous because the extra light in what is otherwise a dark environment makes the monkey part of their brain go "danger! danger!" Because of course, humans aren't always the hunter....
Huh. That makes more sense to me put in that way, Cain.
Quote from: Starship, take me on December 12, 2006, 07:29:02 PM
I might google for some empirical evidence later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_moon
http://brightsurf.com/news/headlines/17516/Earthquakes_Happen_at_Full_Moon.html
http://brightsurf.com/news/headlines/20495/Beach_pollution_is_worst_during_new_and_full_moon.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040526065332.htm
And, the best one:
http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2858/7yl3.gif)
Somehow, I was reminded of that image while googling and typing this post.
Logic can act as a great explosive charge when dealing with the walls of the BIP.
Most people here don't believe in much of the BS spread by the media, so why keep doing it?
bump
this is the droid we were looking for.
The moon discussion starts on page 3.
Just for the hell of it, I'm going to make one of my dialoges out fo this.
swote.
This thread was fun, if I remember correctly.
This thread rawked.
But it ran out of steam, apparently.
The part about aneristic strife is in the dumpster dive thread.
I'm planning on writing up the Moon bit, just for fun.
Someone who has lots of friends who would be mildly interested in this stuff, and who has a video camera, really should act some of these threads out. Of course I have neither friends or a video camera so I'm not nominating myself.
LOL - You bastards gang raped one of my favourite bits of paradigm. No one told me there were honest to god scientists here. Yuo have no idea how many times I've won that argument. I kinda miss it now :cry:
PrincipiaDiscordia.com: Crushing your dreams, one at a time.
I had a dream once where I was fucking Bonnie Langford. SRSLY!
If you could crush that one I'd be forever grateful
No, that one we'll leave as is.
(http://www.bonnielangford.co.uk/gallery/misc3.jpg)
Quote from: LMNO on March 28, 2007, 12:54:30 PM
PrincipiaDiscordia.com: Crushing your dreams, one at a time.
The End.
bump, because the impending lunar eclipse reminded me of this one.
heh. I forgot about AKK's stupid sig.
looks like he got HIMEOBS'd in the end.
ECH,
still searching for the bastards who hacked that poor guy's account
I think Aneristic Strife may fit as a term to describe what some called Paradox of the Absurd or Camus' Absurdism.
Something like the absurd that arises when the human need to perceive Order and Meaning meets the unreasonableness of the world, when "my appetite for the absolute and for unity" meets "the impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable principle." When someone tries to fit the facade of order too tightly to the underlying chaos. People that suddenly realize, no matter how many guns and dogs they use, Taleb's Black Swans may still show up in their local pond.
Of course, the opposite may also exist, Eristic Strife... which could describe the people that believe everything IS Chaos and then get frustrated by orderly things functioning (like our joke of a government).
This strife might simply be the state of people who have not yet grasped what Mal-2 stated:
If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity.
Oh my god, your Suu avatar is adorable!
I've always understood it as Clausewitzian "friction". He used the term to mean all the things that happen in a war that cause the war itself to devolve from its pure (ideal or Platonic) form. This could be logistics, psychology, technology gaps or policy aims. Whatever it was, it caused the war to become less than total, and so less predictable about its outcome.
Aneristic Strife is the same thing, applied to order. There is a perfect, idealized view of order held by [agent 1]. The perfect, Newtonian Universe, for example. But when it is applied to the sloppy mess that is reality, it doesn't fit accordingly. Quatumn effects at the sub-atomic level cause "friction" within the idealized view which, if it is not discarded, cannot be comprehended or understood. They're using the wrong philosophical grid, or map, and so everything that falls outside of that view, if ignored, can cause "strife" to Agent 1. The disconnect between belief and reality while not discarding that belief.
Its the answer to the 'why' of Imposition of Order = Escalation of Disorder.
Quote from: Cain on February 22, 2008, 12:05:00 PM
I've always understood it as Clausewitzian "friction". He used the term to mean all the things that happen in a war that cause the war itself to devolve from its pure (ideal or Platonic) form. This could be logistics, psychology, technology gaps or policy aims. Whatever it was, it caused the war to become less than total, and so less predictable about its outcome.
Aneristic Strife is the same thing, applied to order. There is a perfect, idealized view of order held by [agent 1]. The perfect, Newtonian Universe, for example. But when it is applied to the sloppy mess that is reality, it doesn't fit accordingly. Quatumn effects at the sub-atomic level cause "friction" within the idealized view which, if it is not discarded, cannot be comprehended or understood. They're using the wrong philosophical grid, or map, and so everything that falls outside of that view, if ignored, can cause "strife" to Agent 1. The disconnect between belief and reality while not discarding that belief.
Its the answer to the 'why' of Imposition of Order = Escalation of Disorder.
I think that falls very close to the Camus position of "Life is Absurd" aka "Life is not predictable enough to trust"
I havent read much Camus lately, so I decided not to say, in case it was more off than I thought.
I think you were right on, just from a more scientific observation standpoint than Camus' philosophical one. So we could say that Eristic or Aneristic Strife could be brought about by confusing the menu (Eristic Grid/Aneristic Grid) with the meal (reality)?
Is Aneristic Strife different than the Curse of Greyface?
Quote from: DJRubberducky on December 06, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
I figure strife is strife, and whether it's eristic or aneristic depends on why you're struggling.
If the police are called in to break up a riot, strife will ensue. For the rioters, it's an eristic strife because their goal was to help bring about change. For the police, it's an aneristic strife because their goal was to maintain the status quo.
seems to me, and i might be late in the bandwagon jumping que, but... it seems to me that Aneristic Strife would nicely explain the anxiety that lots of pre-BIP readers might feel.
It's that feeling of being trapped by that mundane, which leads to the need to "break out".
were as the opposite would lead people to finding a more "traditional" religion/belief system so as to find comfort in the boundries.
In either case Eristic/Aneristic strife seems to me to be the catalyst of belief change. (that final shove)
Bump.
The infamous, to some of us, Moon Thread.
LHX had some great one-liners in that.
Plus, I can't believe it took us at least three pages before someone remembered that a full moon and a quarter moon have the same mass.
wow, this thread looks incredibly tame by today's standards. No capslock, no flouncing, wtf?
Here's my contribution, which is actually an X-Post from another thread:
Quote from: Cramulus on May 23, 2009, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: fomenter on May 23, 2009, 06:10:42 PM
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS - Monday, August 20, 2001
Statistics collected by the bureau through June 30 showed four of the last six deaths ruled to be homicide or manslaughter occurred during a full moon.
You can't get significant results with such a small sample.
QuoteIn fact, from January 1999 through the first six months of 2001, the number of manslaughters during a full moon was more than 220 percent greater than on all other days, according to BCI statistics.
The argument I've often heard against these studies is that they do not control for Days of the Week. Maybe it's because the full moons are happening on weekends? I would be willing to bet that there are more homocides on Fridays and Saturdays than on week nights. Hey, why do you think they chose 1999-2001 as their sample?
So I decided to look it up. check it out, here are all of those moons:
1999 Jan 2 02:51 Sat 2451180.619
1999 Jan 31 16:08 Sun 2451210.172
1999 Mar 2 07:00 Tue 2451239.792
1999 Mar 31 22:50 Wed 2451269.452
1999 Apr 30 14:55 Fri 2451299.122
1999 May 30 06:41 Sun 2451328.778
1999 Jun 28 21:39 Mon 2451358.402
1999 Jul 28 11:26 Wed 2451387.976
1999 Aug 26 23:49 Thu 2451417.492
1999 Sep 25 10:52 Sat 2451446.953
1999 Oct 24 21:03 Sun 2451476.377
1999 Nov 23 07:05 Tue 2451505.795
1999 Dec 22 17:33 Wed 2451535.231
2000 Jan 21 04:42 Fri 2451564.696
2000 Feb 19 16:28 Sat 2451594.186
2000 Mar 20 04:46 Mon 2451623.699
2000 Apr 18 17:43 Tue 2451653.238
2000 May 18 07:35 Thu 2451682.816
2000 Jun 16 22:28 Fri 2451712.436
2000 Jul 16 13:57 Sun 2451742.081
2000 Aug 15 05:14 Tue 2451771.718
2000 Sep 13 19:38 Wed 2451801.318
2000 Oct 13 08:54 Fri 2451830.871
2000 Nov 11 21:16 Sat 2451860.386
2000 Dec 11 09:05 Mon 2451889.878
2001 Jan 9 20:26 Tue 2451919.351
2001 Feb 8 07:13 Thu 2451948.801
2001 Mar 9 17:24 Fri 2451978.225
2001 Apr 8 03:24 Sun 2452007.642
2001 May 7 13:55 Mon 2452037.080
2001 Jun 6 01:41 Wed 2452066.570
about 14 out of 30 full moons occured on weekends. I suspect that will greatly skew the effect.
QuoteSimple assault, aggravated assault and robbery, however, all decreased during a full moon compared with all other days, according to BCI.
that is pretty weird.
QuoteUtah BCI defines a "full moon" as the actual day of a full moon as well as the day before and the day after.
that'll skew results too.
QuoteOverall, based on the eight categories analyzed, crime was up 2.86 percent during a full moon compared with all other days.
beating a dead horse, I wonder if that 2.86 percent is terribly different than the amount by which crime increases on the weekends.
Quote from: Cramulus on May 11, 2010, 06:43:35 PM
wow, this thread looks incredibly tame by today's standards. No capslock, no flouncing, wtf?
Well, it
was...