Has anybody heard of this dude?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_Fairey
its amazing how successful subversive people can become, in every aspect except evoking any noticeable social change
in other words: subversion
its funny tho - every so often i keep coming across a new individual/group who seems to have committed their lives to throwing a 'wrench in The Machine'
but The Machine handles it like its nothing
doesnt slow down, and sure as hell doesnt stop
just keeps on digging deeper
on the other side tho - some incredible art comes out of it all
True. Its odd (or maybe it isn't) that artists seem most hell bent on this sort of action. Writers, musicians, installation artists and painters all seem to have it in for the system. And often make quite an impact too.
im tellin you man
the worse the situation gets, the better the art gets
its a strange trade-off
-- maybe its because people see communication as a way out of their situation
just thinking out loud
people get closure after resolving something
and
a good barometer of having something resolved is to be able to describe it or communicate it
(possibly re-create it)
They did an episode of Icons (G4) on this guy.
Good shit.
There will always be dissent, and art is the concentrated form of that dissent.
Any music worth a fuck, any art campaign, or book that dosen't suck is usually a middle finger at some sort of system.
LHX- you like hip hop right? Dissent.
Cain- I believe you are a Voltaire fan IIRC. Dissent (to the point of exile. twice)
Hunter- Just read the handle. Dissent.
Art that dosen't have that is usually not as good. Sure, many good observations are made. Shakespeare sonnets about love, or a Frost poem about trees. Good? Yes.
Good as seeing Rage whip up a bunch of angry youths? No. That's power and beauty.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 05, 2007, 11:08:48 PM
They did an episode of Icons (G4) on this guy.
Good shit.
yeah i think that was the name of the show i saw too
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 05, 2007, 11:08:48 PM
There will always be dissent, and art is the concentrated form of that dissent.
Any music worth a fuck, any art campaign, or book that dosen't suck is usually a middle finger at some sort of system.
LHX- you like hip hop right? Dissent.
Cain- I believe you are a Voltaire fan IIRC. Dissent (to the point of exile. twice)
Hunter- Just read the handle. Dissent.
Art that dosen't have that is usually not as good. Sure, many good observations are made. Shakespeare sonnets about love, or a Frost poem about trees. Good? Yes.
Good as seeing Rage whip up a bunch of angry youths? No. That's power and beauty.
how much better does the art have to get before everybody gets to relax?
When is the last time society relaxed?
Not in our life times.
There will always be dissent. :x is in charge. :x pisses off :-D. :-D fights back.
End 1- :x wins. :-D is absorbed. :| gets mad, revolts.
End 2- :-D wins. :x is absorbed. :| gets mad, revolts.
Early 90s, I would think.
Of course, I was alot younger, but it did seem throughout the nineties that many problems that could happen were a fair way off and that things were getting better.
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 05, 2007, 11:24:37 PM
When is the last time society relaxed?
Not in our life times.
thats for dam sure
but it must have happened at some point else we wouldnt be looking for it
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 05, 2007, 11:24:37 PM
There will always be dissent. :x is in charge. :x pisses off :-D. :-D fights back.
End 1- :x wins. :-D is absorbed. :| gets mad, revolts.
End 2- :-D wins. :x is absorbed. :| gets mad, revolts.
i dig what youre saying
but as this process progresses, the playing board isnt even able to support the game anymore
so clearly there is another element in the mix
a cross between 8-) :mrgreen: :lulz:
there is reason to believe dissent isnt necessary
Quotebut it must have happened at some point else we wouldnt be looking for it
no one is ever satisfied, but there are moments of tranquility, its a pretty strait forward cycle.
things were better in the old days.
things now are terrible.
I hope things in prove.
in retrospect there are elements that stand out and make everything seem better, but there is no need for anyone to have ever actually say "I am content with this at the moment."
Hell maybe it is time to say it, as an average Joe in Ireland I am satisfied with what I have. I live in a country that pretty much anyone can go to college if they want, that if they get sick the health care is great, tv shows have a few good things at the moment, ads are getting worse, music I cant identify with but I have the older stuff still, women are pretty much available whenever I need if I put the effort into it.
from our spot things seem pretty good, I hope it lasts. I hope things get better for you in the states.
radical change could improve things, maybe not. whoever takes over wont please everyone but they might improve peoples lifestyles a bit for a temporary time. As long as people don't agree on everything it can only ever be temporary.
for anyone in charge to avoid a revolution; find something that works pretty well, then as much as possible remove the imbalance by making it harder for radicals to form that could upset the balance and oust you. anyone who figures out that this is what you are doing has to be let in on it and recruited.
i see where you are getting at
but that seems a lot like a 'close your eyes and sweep it under the carpet' approach
are you satisfied? or well-stimulated?
more of a realistic view, its not close your eyes, I just don't believe in a perfect solution that will work with everyone indefinitely, and that because it is only transient and gone in a few years it should be made work as well as possible rather then constantly slated(I DONT mean criticism, anything valid is needed) and actively hampered (with the exception of governments and the issue of war. I disagree totally with the concept and would rather leave then be part of a nation that uses it).
Our country remains vaguely neutral, I am not well stimulated, and I am terribly lonely and fairly poor, but I find what I have and what is available to me, adequate. Irish government is corrupt, but they are constantly ousted and replaced by similar but less corrupt ones.
Most people are taken care of here. If a homeless beggar were dying he gets medical care, goes a long way for my view of what I am provided with.
Theres bits I would change here and there, but Irish government for the moment, is providing, yes I guess I am satisfied for now.
sounds pretty reasonable
it stands to reason that there is some tolerable locations on the globe right now
if heard rumors that belize is nice
also prague
but the one thing that keeps being made clear is that whatever the 'thing' is that is constantly demanding production on this planet is not going to stop until every cow has been milked
preventative measures
the cycle does stop when this place is unable to sustain the cycle
as has been said before:
america will come to YUO
I recognise this guys work from the ps2 game Guitar Hero 2
I see his stuff around Boston all the time. Good shit.
As far as whether he made a difference to The Machine,Ñ¢, maybe not on a global-cultural scale, but to quite a few people on the street, he made them laugh & think. My favorite was when he figured out how to open up the advert frames on the train, and did the "OBEY" poster to fill the car. Best commute ever.
Quote from: LHX on February 05, 2007, 10:54:07 PM
im tellin you man
the worse the situation gets, the better the art gets
its a strange trade-off
True. I may be biased by the fact I was a young punk teenager at the time but I felt some of the best music and art came out of the late 80s/early 90s during the end of the Reagan administration and throughout the Bush Administration.
And then on a personal level I think it is the same. When I was in more troubled times personally the creativity musically and poetically seemed to be endless. When I became more "comfortable" in my personal life, it seemed more of a process to create.
There is some powerful inspiration that can be found in adversity and hard times. It is a strange relationship indeed.
The UK, late 70s. The country was going to shit, but damn there was some good music.
Quote from: Cain on February 06, 2007, 02:36:19 PM
The UK, late 70s.  The country was going to shit, but damn there was some good music.
brian eno's theory of culture compost - needs a lot of shit piled up for a long time before something grows.
sounds kinda like the PD actually.....
Sounds plausible.
Also, Rome. When the Republic was disintegrating in the 1st century BC, you had Catullus, Cicero, Horace, Lucretius and Cornelius Nepos.
Quote from: Cain on February 05, 2007, 11:30:45 PM
Early 90s, I would think.
Of course, I was alot younger, but it did seem throughout the nineties that many problems that could happen were a fair way off and that things were getting better.
Think again. I remember it as being a different time, but I was much younger as well. I didn't see things like I see them today, and i'm sure my naivete colored a rosier picture than was really there.
There are alot of people who think things are going fine now; there are also people who think we are on the brink of apocalypse.
the good art gets created in bad situations
people in comfortable situations get to enjoy good art
so when it does come up, they mass produce it
the more i consider this situation - the more i understand the limitations that a person has in this whole deal
prepare to be misunderstood
prepare to be 'successful'
prepare to be a innocent bystander caught in the crossfire of oppressor and oppressed and contribute to both sides equally
starting to look kind of predictable
if tempers dont boil over, then we will just suffocate on exhaust
end the show so we can get to the afterparty
like being trapped in a poorly written RAW ending
LAIL
Maybe that is the ultimate irony.
That in the end, as much as we hate the way he ends his books, RAW nailed it with his Burroughs-lite, faux-Joyce hackery.
Quote from: LMNO on February 06, 2007, 04:52:01 PM
Maybe that is the ultimate irony.
That in the end, as much as we hate the way he ends his books, RAW nailed it with his Burroughs-lite, faux-Joyce hackery.
fuck
i was gonna post more, but for now -- thats all i can come up with
i gotta think about some shit
I don't think you can say for sure either way how inspiration comes and is interpreted.  The shit that's produced now may become someone's junkyard find to be displayed and worshipped 30 years down the road.  That situation happens more often than not.  When art is produced in its present age, it's rare it's appreciated.  The lauding usually comes pothsumously, at best.
I think what is going on now is the subculture of counterculture.  It's a fairly powerful force, as it has within it this prestige factor emanating from rebellion, want of choice turned into facsimile of powers that people think they don't have/never had.  Youth counterculture is a joke because of this--innercity sub-and-microcultures get bastardized, plagiarized and watered down for mass consumption.  Media outlets feed off of them and destroy the original intent of the work/movement/whateverthefuck has come out of living in that environment, so that disgruntled, hormonal teens can glom onto it and claim it as THEIR movement.  Which we all know is just so much bullshit.
Artists like this guy Fairey know this, so they create counterculture in such a way as to not only make a message but also shove in the mass media frenzy a frisson of honesty.  He probably knows, innately, that if he ever went supercrazy famous, his message would be lost.  But he also probably knows that the time for his message is still now, because that's what he's reacting to--current times, themes and fuckups.
Actually (in Boston, at least), he is kind of considered a sellout by some of the hiperati, because he's turning a profit. Dumshits.
But you see, it's true, in a large sense. If you're not starving...you're a media monkey. :lol: You can't win, really.
Lucky for me, I can make music and not starve, at the same time.
Separation of cash and art?  Is that a meme/rant possibility?
Quote from: LMNO on February 06, 2007, 07:07:15 PM
Actually (in Boston, at least), he is kind of considered a sellout by some of the hiperati, because he's turning a profit. Dumshits.
:argh!:
Yeah, his graphic design career upset people.
I would like to direct all these haters to listen to "Know-it-all" by Lagwagon.
Quote from: LMNO on February 06, 2007, 07:13:08 PM
Lucky for me, I can make music and not starve, at the same time.
Separation of cash and art?  Is that a meme/rant possibility?
I guess it depends on the audience. If one is truly motivated to speak to the masses it would seem near impossible to separate the two. However, if it is more small scale, like what some of us here do, then it is easily separated, I would think. Of course there are other scenarios. For example, some punk band just doing their thing at a local dive while some suit from a big record company just happens to be in the audience. The guy labels them "the next big thing" and blaamo, off it goes. The band could say, "fuck you" and keep to the small time but I wonder how often that would and does happen.
I would say, RWHN...never.
Ever.
I've watched too much band angst in my short life, saw how much $ it takes to rent studios/produce your OWN music...the temptation to whore yourself out is too great to handle.
Starving man to a feast/parched to a stream, etc.