...any of this have to do with Discordianism?
Seeing as we've stirred up a whole bunch of stuff at this end of the forum, we may as well keep it going.
And it's not a facetious question either.
Dosen't matter...
It's good shit.
Well, it is a good question. A n00b is likely to ask such a question too. You know, after they ask about HIMEOBS.
are we:
          extending discordianism?
          rejecting it?
         
          or something else?
We all met in a principia discordia forum. We had to meet somewhere and, logically it turned out to be common ground. Now that we're here if we keep going over the common ground it'll be a bit of a waste of time, since we've already been over that same ground to get here. What's going on here is the answer to the question we all asked "What happens next"
because discordianism as a 'cell' becomes subsumed within the larger BIP structure.
it's like this place is now: principiadiscordiaismerelyachoice.com
principiaasacatylistaftershock.org
Something else.
One of the guys who wrote the PD, also wrote about "reality grids".  So there's a relation there.
also:
Starbucks Pebbles
Law of Fives
Fifth Pentabarf
Sermon on ethics & love
"Think for yourself, schmuck"
all relate in some way to the BIP concept.
so there. :lulz:
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 08:49:48 PM
We all met in a principia discordia forum. We had to meet somewhere and, logically it turned out to be common ground. Now that we're here if we keep going over the common ground it'll be a bit of a waste of time, since we've already been over that same ground to get here. What's going on here is the answer to the question we all asked "What happens next"
is this your vote for 'extension'?
Basically, the ideas came from us rediscussing the lessons of the Principia Discordia. Like LMNO said, the "grids" and stuff.
I personally see it as extending Discordianism along other lines of enquiry. You can sit around going on about the intricacies of Chaos all day, but it does get rather tedious after a while. And there are always other areas to explore....
Quote from: Mangrove on February 13, 2007, 08:49:16 PM
are we:
          extending discordianism?
          rejecting it?
         
          or something else?
I would say a and c.  extending it into something else.  I think the PD was a step, an exploratory team, we are but one group of others who have picked up the trail and gone in all sorts of crazy directions from there.  Who knows if the authors would even be hip to where we are taking things.  
Quote from: LMNO on February 13, 2007, 08:51:17 PM
Something else.
One of the guys who wrote the PD, also wrote about "reality grids".  So there's a relation there.
also:
Starbucks Pebbles
Law of Fives
Fifth Pentabarf
Sermon on ethics & love
"Think for yourself, schmuck"
all relate in some way to the BIP concept.
so there. :lulz:
any chance someone could come up with a pithy summary of all the above and integrate it within the emerging paradigm?
so there x2!   :lulz:  :lulz:
Principia Discordia - What happened next...
What happens when a n00b asks about HIMEOBS?
Nothing. You tell me to fuck off.
What if a n00b asks what this has to do with discordianism?
Tell 'em it dosen't matter.
Then belittle them.
Things are better when you figure them out for yourself.
Quote from: Rev. What's-His-Name? on February 13, 2007, 08:52:51 PMWho knows if the authors would even be hip to where we are taking things.
i dunno, but i for one would like to know what they'd think of it.
either they like it and it's cool and interesting that an idea can indeed carry so far
or they don't and we'd be like haha wtf do THEY know anyway
both cases are good :)
[and cain: split away, but please add a link to this thread, so we can keep track of where it came from]
Well, I think when we come up with some more concrete products it might be interesting to peddle it to other Discordian hangouts on the web. Get some other perspectives.
it's just so hard to create a good stand-alone product.
one that people can relate to, without having to know too much of the background from here, and also that doesn't immediately make them go "wtf is this bullshit" or "you bunch of depressed weltschmerz emo whinos with your black mascara prison" and dismiss
(um i don't mean to diss any of the products made here btw)
Quote from: triple zero on February 13, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
it's just so hard to create a good stand-alone product.
one that people can relate to, without having to know too much of the background from here, and also that doesn't immediately make them go "wtf is this bullshit" or "you bunch of depressed weltschmerz emo whinos with your black mascara prison" and dismiss
(um i don't mean to diss any of the products made here btw)
:lol: thar's gold in this here thread
Quote from: triple zero on February 13, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
it's just so hard to create a good stand-alone product.
one that people can relate to, without having to know too much of the background from here, and also that doesn't immediately make them go "wtf is this bullshit" or "you bunch of depressed weltschmerz emo whinos with your black mascara prison" and dismiss
(um i don't mean to diss any of the products made here btw)
true, though I think we should consider products, plural, and not just one. "#3 in a series of x" Plust multi-media is also good.
Commentaries On The Principia Discordia
                             or
What I stole from the Goddess and what I chose to give back
Quote from: Mangrove on February 13, 2007, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: triple zero on February 13, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
it's just so hard to create a good stand-alone product.
one that people can relate to, without having to know too much of the background from here, and also that doesn't immediately make them go "wtf is this bullshit" or "you bunch of depressed weltschmerz emo whinos with your black mascara prison" and dismiss
(um i don't mean to diss any of the products made here btw)
:lol: thar's gold in this here thread
The thing I really love about this place is that every now and again a concrete belief rears it's head and, regardless who it is that states it, they get fucking shot down in flames. Does one good to have ones shortcomings pointed out in this context.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 09:25:10 PMthey get fucking shot down in flames. Does one good to have ones shortcomings pointed out in this context.
should i take this as lighthearted as i hope i should?
I consider the BIP to be a Discordian Episkipos. It's not synonymous with Discordia, but it has a lot in common.
I agree that this particular episkopos is "in progress" -- the BIP isn't the end point, it's just a point on a line that leads somewhere else.
I've got a project idea up my sleeve, but I'm holding onto for now so I don't lose focus on my other real-life projects . (just finished the manuscript for this book... I'm in editing phase now, with the goal of print in March)
But to be brief, I think it would be a fun exercise for the commutiny to try and put together a complete product within a one-week time frame. Like the concept is announced on Monday, finalized by Tuesday, and then everyone starts submitting stuff. We'd make it our goal to have a PDF ready to distribute by the following Monday. This forces us to stay really goal oriented and make forward progress (?) without getting too hung up on semantics and tangents.
Quote from: triple zero on February 13, 2007, 09:28:18 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 13, 2007, 09:25:10 PMthey get fucking shot down in flames. Does one good to have ones shortcomings pointed out in this context.
should i take this as lighthearted as i hope i should?
Wasn't having a dig if that's what you mean. I have benefited from this trouncing whenever I have thought something stupid, makes rectification a much quicker process. Being called on bullshit is always a good thing. Especially if you actually believe it at the time.
The BIP is its own thing. It will not and should not ever see print. That is the advantage of it. There are no concrete ideas, there are no concrete answers, there is nothing that can ever be built. It is a neverending catalyst of productive thought that would be self defeating if it were ever codified. The BIP is this board. It is an outshoot of discordian thought that is as much a method as it is a collection of ideas. The purpose shouldn't be to get anything concrete, but to simply spread the method and ideas out into other mediums.
*waits for what I said to get shot down*
fertile soil
many things can grow from it
It would indeed be interesting to see what the original PD writers would think of it, but one's dead and the other's insane.
Oooh, spoooky Necronomicon flavors, ITT.
Prof, that's a good idea, but in practice, i've found that it really just never pulls through. The only reason the BIP an Machine,Ñ¢ pamphlets exists is because one person hacked it together from various posts, and got it into PDF format.
I'd suggest you start it, throw it into a Word document, then email it around to us for minor editing. Then we send it back to you for layout & PDF-ing.
Honestly, this place is DIY, literally.
I thought both were dead? Didn't Hill die nearly 7 years ago? And we know Thornley is dead (or in a secret CIA prison, so basically the same).
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 01:22:08 PMProf, that's a good idea, but in practice, i've found that it really just never pulls through.¬† The only reason the BIP an Machine™ pamphlets exists is because one person hacked it together from various posts, and got it into PDF format.
I'd suggest you start it, throw it into a Word document, then email it around to us for minor editing.  Then we send it back to you for layout & PDF-ing.
Honestly, this place is DIY, literally.
bittersweet troofpaste, that
I may be mistaken in my analogy, but I think the original Principia Discordia is like the Torah, and we're writing the Talmud. IIRC, and I'm too lazy to Wiki for it, one function of the Talmud is to help make sure the message and intent of the Torah persists as new situations arise. They've now got commentary in there about whether or not it's okay to ride a bicycle on the Sabbath - something they'd never have known to worry about umpteen millenia ago.
And isn't that exactly what we're doing? We're taking what we consider the most important messages of the PD and rephrasing them to make sure that today's people can still "get it" if they choose to try. We're trying to keep them from eating the menu, as it were.
Woots and mittens to the DJ.
woa, they do that with the talmud/torah? vette shit!
so what we learn now, is that even keeping your religion "liquid" like that, is not enough to keep it from sucking?
also, good explanaiton.
Also the Zohar.
Esoteric Kabbalistic ranting about the Torah. Good stuff.
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 03:17:02 PM
woa, they do that with the talmud/torah? vette shit!
so what we learn now, is that even keeping your religion "liquid" like that, is not enough to keep it from sucking?
also, good explanaiton.
hey, I gotta say that a religion with an entire class of scholar devoted to arguing points in the bible for their entire lives is pretty cool.
Quote from: DJRubberducky on February 14, 2007, 03:11:16 PM
I may be mistaken in my analogy, but I think the original Principia Discordia is like the Torah, and we're writing the Talmud.  IIRC, and I'm too lazy to Wiki for it, one function of the Talmud is to help make sure the message and intent of the Torah persists as new situations arise.  They've now got commentary in there about whether or not it's okay to ride a bicycle on the Sabbath - something they'd never have known to worry about umpteen millenia ago.
And isn't that exactly what we're doing?  We're taking what we consider the most important messages of the PD and rephrasing them to make sure that today's people can still "get it" if they choose to try.  We're trying to keep them from eating the menu, as it were.
:mittens:
something worthy of the intro of the next pamphlet
(i meant sucking as in causing all this fundamentalistic burka dressup fanaticism)
Very few esoteric interpretations have ever lead to fanaticism. In fact, only one comes to mind, the Assassins.
so you say we should view the burkha bullshit and the demeaning treatment of women, as a separate issue from the islam itself?
because if discordianism ever starts causing suck like bullshit, we can write talmuds all we like, but something must have gone very wrong along the road of good intentions.
also, i wonder, does this Talmud also take back the stuff the torah said about not eating pork meat? (because really the disease this was supposed to prevent is not really an issue anymore) and the wearing of headscarfs? (whatever what that was instated for)
it looks like people need their individual Talmuds
and that word is sounding a lot like 'reality grid'
i have seen heated discussions about pork
versatility and adaptability is important
learning by trial and error is important
I meant that, more generally, esoteric interpretations require critical thought, because of the implicit assumption things are not as they appear. Most religious nuts are literalists, it must be said.
Triple Zero, Talmud/Torah = Jewish, not Islam.
And, yes, you can separate Islam from it's most currently visible habits. Again, Google "sufi".
Quote from: Cain on February 14, 2007, 04:07:09 PM
Most religious nuts are literalists, it must be said.
true
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:12:50 PM
And, yes, you can separate Islam from it's most currently visible habits. Again, Google "sufi".
true
Sufi's aren't as cool as Ishmaeli's.
Cain,
is the real Aga Khan, bitches.
Quote from: Cain on February 14, 2007, 04:17:40 PM
Sufi's aren't as cool as Ishmaeli's.
Cain,
is the real Aga Khan, bitches.
Google is not my friend.
Quick info link?
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:12:50 PMTriple Zero, Talmud/Torah = Jewish, not Islam.
oops, my mistake.
well jewishm makes a lot more sense than islam, so that's good.
except for the penis-cutting
but even that is debatable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:12:50 PMTriple Zero, Talmud/Torah = Jewish, not Islam.
well jewishm makes a lot more sense than islam, so that's good.
??
I wondered about that too. I often find Islam makes more logical sense, because it had only one Prophet, and the Muslims were led to victory.
In contrast, the OT has several inconsistent prophets, a god who hates his own chosen people and every time they do something right, doesn't reward them, he just doesn't do bad things.
000, I don't really know where you're going with this...
How much of the Torah or Koran have you actually read?
that both islam and judaism practise circumcision?
never mind, sorry i obviously know nothing about these matters.
i admit i'm really a big n00b when it comes to history. never paid attention to it in school (cause i found it boring as fuck) and i never read any holy books. at least, not major parts of it.
what i meant with that, is that i haven't seen jews doing very strange things "out of religion" (i'm quite sure you an immediately prove me wrong about this, with a counterexample)
while i do see muslims every day doing weird things because of their religion.
on the other hand this probably has more to do with the cultural background of the average jew, average christian, average atheist and average muslim i happen to know, than with what the respective religions have written in themselves.
also i admit that i didn't think very long before i posted those things (hope i didn't offend anybody with it)
i don't think there was any offence - just a "where is dude going with this?" feeling and a need of clarification.  :D
obviously, the BIP is the "mysticism" of discordianism.
say what you want about the greeks, but this "religion" is only 50 years old. i think the BIP is (or will be) to Discordianism what the early Q'bala (read: not "Kabballah," or anything that Hollywood knows about) was to Judaism.
except without all the grey shit.
executive signing statement: semantical arguments countering this post with bollocks about discordianism/BIP not really being 'religions' per se, shall have no effect on the overall validity of this truth.
Oh, shit. We have signing statements, now?
why not?
in 3 months of brain stagnation it's the best i can come up with.
vexati0n,
going to be a dad again soon.
OFUK
is vex jumping back into the mix?
congratulations on the baby news
To whomever asked (I am really lazy today): No, to my knowledge, there is nothing official in the Talmud that gets rid of the ban on pig meat.
See, from *our* point of view, it made sense to ban pork back then 'cause of the risk of disease. But there are plenty of other animals that were declared treif with the rule of "split hoof/chew cud" that we don't wonder about. Also, there's just plain more to the kashrut (dietary laws) than that. Eating is one of the most basic, fundamental things a human being (or any other creature) does. By imposing the dietary laws, Judaism makes sure that even the simple act of eating is a reaffirmation of one's faith.
I can totally see the scholars saying "Okay, sure there's no health risk from contaminated pork anymore, at least not in the first-world countries, but can we really be sure that G-d forbade us from eating it because of the health risk? I mean, He left us plenty of other sources of animal protein; it's not like we're at risk for malnutrition if we don't lift this ban. Let's leave this one stand as written."
Interesting Kosher fact of the day:
Grasshoppers and a certain species of locust in Yemen are the only species of insect that are not treif.
Quote from: Starship, take me on February 14, 2007, 10:52:18 PM
Interesting Kosher fact of the day:
Grasshoppers and a certain species of locust in Yemen are the only species of insect that are not treif.
The Jews are missing out.
Do you have any favorite insects or insect dishes? I'm looking to broaden my palate.
Quote from: Starship, take me on February 14, 2007, 11:39:29 PM
Do you have any favorite insects or insect dishes?  I'm looking to broaden my palate.
I've heard that giant water bugs (Lethocerus americana) are quite tasty.
Me, I don't know any recipies. I need to find a good cookbook.
Make sure you check out somewhere before trying anything new. Some insects have high concentrations of uric acid, and toxic compounds. Just to be cautious, I mean.
Witchetty grubs.
Srsly.
Honey ants FTW
Yeah, I saw honey ants in a wilderness survival manual years ago. Those Witchetty grubs look more my style, though abdomen-honey must be pretty good.
Damn Aussies get all the good bugs.
Honestly abdomen honey is the bizness. My old boss went ape at me when he realised I'd scoffed about half a colony (nearly a grands worth)
Quote from: hunter s.durden on February 13, 2007, 08:57:25 PM
What happens when a n00b asks about HIMEOBS?
Nothing. You tell me to fuck off.
Right, which one of you bad monleys did that? :lulz: