Oh No, More Discordian Bullshit:  On the Eris-Specific terms of Chaos, Order, and Disorder.
When a bunch of pretentious Erisians get together to talk Shop, they usually babble away at each other with no real understanding of what anyone is talking about.¬† It,Äôs like the United Nations.
Anyway, to help, some of them came up with some terms and concepts to help figure out what they hell anyone is saying.
So, to start with, the Universe is Chaos.  Please keep in mind, this is a Discordian specific definition of Chaos.  So, this says that in the Universe, and every nanosecond that passes, something different is happening.  If you were to be able to observe the entire universe completely, down to the last quark, it would be impossible to discern what the hell is going on.  Simply put, Shit Happens.
Now, when you put a Human into the mix, they don,Äôt see Chaos.¬† The Human brain is wired to seek out patterns.¬†
When the Human sees patterns that follow some sort of progression that Human understands and can follow, we call that ,ÄúOrder,,Äù as well as ,ÄúThe Aneristic Illusion,Äù.¬† Those patterns are still just Chaos, but the Human mind has decided to separate it from its Universal surroundings.
When the Human cannot see a pattern, or cannot understand that a pattern exists, we call that ,ÄúDisorder,,Äù as well as ,ÄúThe Eristic Illusion,Äù.¬† The absence of a recognizable pattern is still just Chaos, but the Human has decided to differentiate this from ,ÄúOrder,Äù.
In this way, Erisian say that those who hold Order over Disorder, or Disorder over Order, are both deluded by their Illusions.
:mittens:
I would say this is a correct explanation of discordian chaos.
also (but i have the feeling people don't feel much for this idea), i think we should coin a word for it.
as to distinguish it when talking about this specific type of chaos.
just for clarity and simplicity of our discussions, not for outside pamphletting or anything.
i propose simply "discordian chaos", or maybe an abbreviation of this
Ugh.. the first thing that came to mind:
"dischao"
I deeply apologize.
Chaos Major
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 02:56:29 PM
Ugh.. the first thing that came to mind:
"dischao"
I deeply apologize.
what cow?  :lulz:
Dat Chao!
these definitions of chaos really remind me of yin
I was thinking the entire symbol was "Discordian Chaos" ("DC" from here on out), and that Order/Disorder were the Yin/Yang.
Hell, PD stole that for the "Hodge/Podge".
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 03:19:30 PM
I was thinking the entire symbol was "Discordian Chaos" ("DC" from here on out), and that Order/Disorder were the Yin/Yang.
Hell, PD stole that for the "Hodge/Podge".
true true
i see it
so it looks like what we are dealing with here is another word (chaos) with a generally negative connotation
chaos =/= mass hysteria, pain and suffering
but
mass hysteria, pain, suffering = chaos
When I argue these things out, many people think:
Chaos=Disorder=anarchy=confusion=suffering.
Whereas what I think we want to say is:
Chaos=Order+Disorder=do what you want with it.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
When I argue these things out, many people think:
Chaos=Disorder=anarchy=confusion=suffering.
Whereas what I think we want to say is:
Chaos=Order+Disorder=do what you want with it.
progress ITT
we need to re-visit these terms
there is a reason nike didnt name their company 'Athlete's Foot'
Question:
Do we disagree with the way the PD explains Chaos, order, and Disorder; and if so, how so?
the model you described above is on point from my perspective
chaos --> disorder/order
being synonymous with
tao --> yin/yang
i guess that kind of demonstrates another principle --> there is more than one way to say the same thing
lets say we dont have much attachment to terms
?
Problem: If we like the PD definitions, why/how re-write them?
Chaos = the whole. Because its the sum of order and disorder, both being experienced as part of the larger state of the universe.
Order = something which has a pattern we can grasp.
Disorder = something that does not have a pattern we can grasp (yet).
Quote from: Cain on February 14, 2007, 03:50:30 PM
Chaos = the whole.  Because its the sum of order and disorder, both being experienced as part of the larger state of the universe.
Order = something which has a pattern we can grasp.
Disorder = something that does not have a pattern we can grasp (yet).
Yup.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 02:42:55 PM
Oh No, More Discordian Chaos: On the Eris-Specific terms of Chaos, Order, and Disorder.
When a bunch of pretentious Erisians get together to talk Shop, they usually babble away at each other with no real understanding of what anyone is talking about. It,Äôs like the United Nations.
Anyway, to help, some of them came up with some terms and concepts to help figure out what they hell anyone is saying.
So, to start with, the Universe is Bullshit. Please keep in mind, this is a Discordian specific definition of Bullshit. So, this says that in the Universe, and every nanosecond that passes, something different is happening. If you were to be able to observe the entire universe completely, down to the last quark, it would be impossible to discern what the hell is going on. Simply put, Shit Happens.
Now, when you put a Human into the mix, they don,Äôt see Bullshit. The Human brain is wired to seek out patterns.
When the Human sees patterns that follow some sort of progression that Human understands and can follow, we call that ,ÄúOrder,,Äù as well as ,ÄúThe Aneristic Illusion,Äù. Those patterns are still just Bullshit, but the Human mind has decided to separate it from its Universal surroundings.
When the Human cannot see a pattern, or cannot understand that a pattern exists, we call that ,ÄúBullshit,,Äù as well as ,ÄúBullshit,Äù. The absence of a recognizable pattern is still just Bullshit, but the Human has decided to differentiate this from ,ÄúOrder,Äù.
In this way, Erisian say that those who hold Order over Disorder, or Disorder over Order, are both deluded by their Illusions.
Edit by way of emphasising the point I made earlier about the words taking second place to the meaning. Above is still :mittens: Regardless of terminology, message is same.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 03:47:07 PM
Problem: If we like the PD definitions, why/how re-write them?
why - because its the version that brought this particular collection of people together
how - any/every way imaginable
table of correspondences FTW
SSOOKN
golden sphere
i think he meant, why rewrite them, and not, why we like them
i think
rewrite them for
1) expansion on original theme viewed in the light of current days and current people
2) "chaos" is a nice strong term, that attracts interest because people think "why would you worship something bad like chaos?", but on the other hand, chaos is an awkward term these days, has a lot of different ambiguous and slightly the same meanings.
so if we can say the same things with different (less ambiguous) words, that is maybe a good thing.
Ok, I'm gonna write something on the benefits of Order, and how Chaos Theory is actually a set of well-defined rules.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 04:13:52 PM
Ok, I'm gonna write something on the benefits of Order, and how Chaos Theory is actually a set of well-defined rules.
(http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/ng/s/c/scctng00a.jpg)
Greek mythology nerdiness time:
In Greek mythology, Chaos or Khaos is the primeval state of existence from which the first gods appeared. In other words, the dark void of space.
It literally means "gaping void", from the verb χαίνω "gape, be wide open", which likely comes from the root word where we get the English "chasm" from.
According to Hesiod's Theogonia (The origin of the Gods), Chaos was the nothingness out of which the first objects of existence appeared. These first beings, described as children of Chaos alone, were Gaia (the Earth), Tartarus (the Underworld), Nyx (the darkness of the night), and Erebus (the darkness of the Underworld).
In Ancient Greek cosmology, Chaos was the first thing to exist and the womb from which everything emerged.
The idea is also found in Mesopotamia and associated with Tiamat the 'Dragon' of Chaos, from whose dismembered body the world was formed.
Genesis refers to the earliest conditions of the universe as "without form and void," a state similar to chaos.
Primal Chaos was sometimes said to be the true foundation of reality, particularly by philosophers such as Heraclitus and those trained in Orphic schools. It was the opposite of Platonism. It was also probably what Aristotle had in mind when he developed the concept of Prima Materia in his attempt to combine Platonism with the Presocraticism and Naturalism. It was a concept inherited by the theory of Alchemy.
hey, wisdom from the ancients actually comes in handy.
Go figure.
ok in this case we could also go with this classical definition of chaos
because looking at it from this point of view, the mathematical chaos is an etymological misnomer.
if we take Chaos as "the void" or "primordial possibility puree",
then the phrase "the nation is in chaos" could be taken to mean
"pull yourself together, your primordial puree is showing, between
the seams"
if you know what i mean.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 02:56:29 PM
Ugh.. the first thing that came to mind:
"dischao"
I deeply apologize.
Not enough. Drop and gimme 20.
Quote from: triple zero on February 14, 2007, 04:11:00 PM"chaos" is a nice strong term, that attracts interest because people think "why would you worship something bad like chaos?", but on the other hand, chaos is an awkward term these days, has a lot of different ambiguous and slightly the same meanings.
so if we can say the same things with different (less ambiguous) words, that is maybe a good thing.
This definitely needs expanding and more definition, we need to be clear exactly what we're talking about otherwise it's all fractals and worshipping negative-chaos archetypes with a strong possibility of tie dye being involved at some point.
Quote from: LMNO on February 14, 2007, 02:42:55 PM
Oh No, More Discordian Bullshit:  On the Eris-Specific terms of Chaos, Order, and Disorder.
When a bunch of pretentious Erisians get together to talk Shop, they usually babble away at each other with no real understanding of what anyone is talking about.¬† It,Äôs like the United Nations.
Anyway, to help, some of them came up with some terms and concepts to help figure out what they hell anyone is saying.
So, to start with, the Universe is Chaos.  Please keep in mind, this is a Discordian specific definition of Chaos.  So, this says that in the Universe, and every nanosecond that passes, something different is happening.  If you were to be able to observe the entire universe completely, down to the last quark, it would be impossible to discern what the hell is going on.  Simply put, Shit Happens.
Now, when you put a Human into the mix, they don,Äôt see Chaos.¬† The Human brain is wired to seek out patterns.¬†
When the Human sees patterns that follow some sort of progression that Human understands and can follow, we call that ,ÄúOrder,,Äù as well as ,ÄúThe Aneristic Illusion,Äù.¬† Those patterns are still just Chaos, but the Human mind has decided to separate it from its Universal surroundings.
When the Human cannot see a pattern, or cannot understand that a pattern exists, we call that ,ÄúDisorder,,Äù as well as ,ÄúThe Eristic Illusion,Äù.¬† The absence of a recognizable pattern is still just Chaos, but the Human has decided to differentiate this from ,ÄúOrder,Äù.
In this way, Erisian say that those who hold Order over Disorder, or Disorder over Order, are both deluded by their Illusions.
Not bad at all. But my definition is this: "I'm gonna do whatever I feel like doing at any given moment, and there's not a goddamned thing anyone can do to stop me. Or kill me."
All that order/disorder stuff is just commentary.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
Not bad at all. But my definition is this: "I'm gonna do whatever I feel like doing at any given moment, and there's not a goddamned thing anyone can do to stop me. Or kill me."
All that order/disorder stuff is just commentary.
this is what you feel like doing?
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 04:32:31 PM
Not bad at all.  But my definition is this:  "I'm gonna do whatever I feel like doing at any given moment, and there's not a goddamned thing anyone can do to stop me.  Or kill me."
All that order/disorder stuff is just commentary.
this is what you feel like doing?
At the moment.
Yeah.
That's why I'm doing it.
You?
yeah
as far as it seems to be a means to a end
as you say - at the moment
i agree
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
You don't believe in freedom, slave-boi. You said so yourself.
So get busy. Massa is waiting.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
...You said so yourself.
I don't get it. Am I supposed to argue this point? Freedom is for pussies. It's some kind of wierdass idealists pipedream. To believe you can make it is just about as much of a delusion as the belief that you have it.
SRSLY - for the record - I said so myself.
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
...You said so yourself.
I don't get it. Am I supposed to argue this point? Freedom is for pussies. It's some kind of wierdass idealists pipedream. To believe you can make it is just about as much of a delusion as the belief that you have it.
SRSLY - for the record - I said so myself.
Like I said...You're a slave.
How does it feel to go through life without a spine? Do you just sort of ooze from place to place, like a big sack of flesh? Or is it more of an earthworm thing?
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
...You said so yourself.
I don't get it. Am I supposed to argue this point? Freedom is for pussies. It's some kind of wierdass idealists pipedream. To believe you can make it is just about as much of a delusion as the belief that you have it.
SRSLY - for the record - I said so myself.
intense
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:34:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 21, 2007, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: SillyCybin on February 21, 2007, 05:21:57 PM
It's much more of a buzz getting away with it if there's an oppressor tho. Oppression is like freedom plus excitement.
...You said so yourself.
I don't get it. Am I supposed to argue this point? Freedom is for pussies. It's some kind of wierdass idealists pipedream. To believe you can make it is just about as much of a delusion as the belief that you have it.
SRSLY - for the record - I said so myself.
intense
He's a sissy. What can you do?
funny yo
i didnt get the impression of sissy off Cybin
he seems harder than most mofos around
Quote from: LHX on February 21, 2007, 05:40:19 PM
funny yo
i didnt get the impression of sissy off Cybin
he seems harder than most mofos around
He's a coward. He has stated so.
What can I say - I'm a slave to my spine :lulz: